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YourLandlord
04-19-2010, 08:26 PM
Miles, Mason, and Ryan.

These are our only three players over 6'8".

Will we have inside depth problems next year? Will they be able to stay out of foul trouble?

I think they'll all have to improve massively defensively over this year for Duke to be a truly complete team.

RoyalBlue08
04-19-2010, 08:29 PM
given the pile up in the backcourt, I think you will see 10 mins/game of Kyle at the 4.

DeBlueDevil
04-19-2010, 08:31 PM
I think style of play will be a big factor with this. I do not believe we will rely on the half court offense quite as much with the amount of players we'll have that can create their own shot and create for others. Anyways, yes I think everyone will try to find one flaw with next yaers team and say we have lack of inside depth but last time i checked as my old bball coach used to say "you don't need height to rebound".

I think Mase will have a monster year inside and Miles won't be far behind. I believe Kyle helps tremendously with this as well. And we will have some athletic guys to throw in there as well. All in all I just don't think this will be a big problem.

DukeBlueNV
04-19-2010, 08:41 PM
what is the likelyhood of kyle playing full-time at the four... it would be kinda doing him a disservice seeing how he played the three last year and will be in the nba. but to get the best players on the floor (irving, smith, curry, singler, plumlee) he would need to play the pf position. glad he's back but im guessing this relagates curry to the bench... but having so much talent it doesnt all fit on the floor is a good problem to have!

ElSid
04-19-2010, 08:41 PM
this was a more interesting thread before we heard about kyle coming back.

now we have mason at 6-11, miles at 6-10, kyle at 6-8, kelly at 6-10, hairston at 6-8, and felix at 6-6. we could play smith, felix, singler, and two of the really tall guys if we needed to match up against a huge team like 2009-2010 gonzaga or FSU again.

I think that looks pretty good. Would love to see kelly pack on like 20 pounds of muscle and come out next year as more of a legit presence on the inside. he has really good defensive instincts down there.

jimsumner
04-19-2010, 08:43 PM
Miles Plumlee, Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly can play the 5. Mason Plumlee, Ryan Kelly, Josh Hairston and Kyle Singler can play the 4, maybe even Carrick Felix.

I think Duke can adequately handle those 80 mpg.

Big Pappa
04-19-2010, 08:46 PM
Miles, Mason, and Ryan.

These are our only three players over 6'8".

Will we have inside depth problems next year? Will they be able to stay out of foul trouble?

I think they'll all have to improve massively defensively over this year for Duke to be a truly complete team.

Kyle will obviously help with this but everything I've seen has Josh listed at 6'9" so he gives us added depth at the 4 and 5. A 4 person rotation was plenty to be dominate this past year.

dukeballboy88
04-19-2010, 08:50 PM
with the depth at the guard position, k should press more wich in turn will lead to more turnovers and making it harder for the other team to run a half court offense. hopefully this will keep miles and mason out of foul trouble. thats the only concern i have is keeping them out of foul trouble.

RainingThrees
04-19-2010, 08:53 PM
With Singler coming back I don't see Felix getting almost any pt. The Plumlees will start and we will play Kelly and a combination of Hairston/Singler at the 4 for a four man rotation with Singler occasionally playing the 4 if the matchup is there. If we run into foul trouble all we have to do is slide Singler to the 4 where we know he is comfortable.

Wander
04-19-2010, 08:55 PM
To me, the biggest question mark for next year by a very wide margin is this: can the Plumlees stop fouling?

Saratoga2
04-19-2010, 09:02 PM
Bigs usually don't play that many minutes due to foul issues and just the grind of big bodies banging inside. It is good to have Kelly behind the Plumlees and lets not forget Josh who is about the same size as Lance. Lance was able to play a lot at the 4 this past season and Josh will have that same opportunity. I still see Kyle as playing the majority of his time at the 3 but he does give us another weapon inside at the 4.

We have both Dawkins and Felix to back up the 3 and look to be a very deep team, with the ability to handle injuries, illnesses and foul issues better than most teams.

Indoor66
04-19-2010, 09:04 PM
As to Plumlee's and fouling, experience tends to help fouling. Both should do less reaching and more foot movements and tend to cut down on fouling. It happened to Lance and Zou over the course of their careers, as well.

cptnflash
04-19-2010, 09:06 PM
To me, the biggest question mark for next year by a very wide margin is this: can the Plumlees stop fouling?

Amen. With Kyle's return, the Plumlees become the key to next year's team. If they learn to defend without fouling, we'll be scary good.

jipops
04-19-2010, 09:07 PM
Reiterating Big Pappa, it has been reported in the past that Hairston is up to 6-9 these days. We've still got a great deal of length in the front court especially with Kyle back. The Plumlees have to be a factor though. I really like what we started to see from Miles on defense but Mason still seemed to lose his man a lot or was late to react in rotation. But that's also just freshman stuff.

COYS
04-20-2010, 12:56 AM
Reiterating Big Pappa, it has been reported in the past that Hairston is up to 6-9 these days. We've still got a great deal of length in the front court especially with Kyle back. The Plumlees have to be a factor though. I really like what we started to see from Miles on defense but Mason still seemed to lose his man a lot or was late to react in rotation. But that's also just freshman stuff.

The Plumlee's contributions in the halfcourt on both defense and offense will be key for next season. We'll be able to run and score some easy buckets, but this past year's team's execution in the halfcourt on both sides was impressive. Scheyer ran that show on offense and it will be up to Nolan and Kyrie (and possibly Seth) to keep it efficient. On the defensive side, Mason and Miles will be the guys who need to replace Lance and Brian's production. That's no simple task and they have a lot of work to do. I think their progression on the interior of the defensive end will go a long way toward determining how far we go. We won this year because we could beat tough, physical teams on both ends. We'll be able to run a lot of teams out of the gym, next year, but come tourney time we'll have to win a few grinders to return to the Final Four. I expect Mason and Miles to be up to the challenge.

ElSid
04-20-2010, 01:34 AM
What competition is there in the ACC and in the NCAA in terms of front courts?

I'm thinking the ACC next season is going to be pretty thin in that regard with Favors, Lawal, Aminu, Davis, the FSU players (is Alabi gone yet?), and others all declaring. I'm not convinced Zeller or the Wears or Henson will be all that intimidating to the likes of the Plumlees.

Nationwide who will have the best back court? Ohio State maybe with their Freshman?

Purdue's players are declaring for the draft too, no? JaJuan Johnson?

Frankly I don't know if there's going to be enough front court talent or muscle next year to be able to exploit this "weakness" of Duke's. I'd be scared if we had to play DeMarcus Cousins, but I don't think a similar player will be playing. Am I wrong?

hedevil
04-20-2010, 01:59 AM
Depending on matchups, I could see K going with one Plumlee at a time paired with either Kelly or Hairston at the 4. I know the Plumlees play well together but going with this strategy would give us ten fouls at the 5 from the Plumlees and would prevent Duke from having both Plumlees in simultaneous foul trouble. To me, having both Miles and Mason in foul trouble would be our weakest moment in any game.

Bob Green
04-20-2010, 06:05 AM
Depending on matchups, I could see K going with one Plumlee at a time paired with either Kelly or Hairston at the 4. I know the Plumlees play well together but going with this strategy would give us ten fouls at the 5 from the Plumlees and would prevent Duke from having both Plumlees in simultaneous foul trouble. To me, having both Miles and Mason in foul trouble would be our weakest moment in any game.

I disagree with this approach as it seems to be playing not to lose instead of playing to win. Coach K will play to win and that means Miles and Mason Plumlee starting in the frontcourt and playing 20-25 minutes per game. Obviously, if either Plumlee gets into foul trouble, Coach K will have to make adjustments, which is fine because he is a master at in-game adjustments. The Plumlees both have a huge upside. Miles is tough and demonstrated the ability to knockdown the midrange jumper, while Mason is an incredible athlete who has the ability to get out and run, which will be an awesome skill when on the court alongside Irving and Smith. With a summer of hard work, Miles and Mason will both be improved players. For Duke to play up to their potential in 2010-11, the Plumlees need to play side-by-side.

flyingdutchdevil
04-20-2010, 06:13 AM
To me, the biggest question mark for next year by a very wide margin is this: can the Plumlees stop fouling?


Take a look at LT and Zoubs - extremely foul prone for the better part of 3 years and then learned during their senior year.

Hopefully the Plumlee learning curve is a little quicker...

Daniel tosh
04-20-2010, 06:51 AM
Josh airston is over 6'8",I remember reading an interview of him where he said he was a legit 6'9',and this was more than 6 months ago.

CDu
04-20-2010, 07:49 AM
Josh airston is over 6'8",I remember reading an interview of him where he said he was a legit 6'9',and this was more than 6 months ago.

Not that it matters whether he is 6'8" or 6'9". He's capable of playing on the interior. Lance Thomas was 6'8", and he did quite well down there. Trevor Booker was maybe 6'7", and he was awesome. Selecting over 6'8" as the criterion for our post depth seems arbitrary and will unnecessarily exclude two options.

CDu
04-20-2010, 08:03 AM
what is the likelyhood of kyle playing full-time at the four... it would be kinda doing him a disservice seeing how he played the three last year and will be in the nba. but to get the best players on the floor (irving, smith, curry, singler, plumlee) he would need to play the pf position. glad he's back but im guessing this relagates curry to the bench... but having so much talent it doesnt all fit on the floor is a good problem to have!

I don't think there's much chance at all that Singler will play full-time at the 4. I think he'll play a few minutes per game at the 4, but mostly at the 3.

whereinthehellami
04-20-2010, 08:23 AM
Miles, Mason, and Ryan.

These are our only three players over 6'8".

Will we have inside depth problems next year? Will they be able to stay out of foul trouble?

I think they'll all have to improve massively defensively over this year for Duke to be a truly complete team.

Which is more than pretty much any other team. Duke is loaded.

If the duke bigs get in foul trouble they can go small and changeup the game. That would be a big adjustment for the other team. And since this would likely occur at the end of the game when you want alot of ball handlers and good foul shooters, this could be a huge positive. You could go with Irving, Smith, Dawkins, Felix, and Singler and still have a good rebounding team.

jv001
04-20-2010, 08:34 AM
Which is more than pretty much any other team. Duke is loaded.

If the duke bigs get in foul trouble they can go small and changeup the game. That would be a big adjustment for the other team. And since this would likely occur at the end of the game when you want alot of ball handlers and good foul shooters, this could be a huge positive. You could go with Irving, Smith, Dawkins, Felix, and Singler and still have a good rebounding team.

I would switch Curry for Dawkins in this end of game situation. But it's a good to have a choice like that. Don't know about Felix in that situation. We do have a track record of players saying just how good Curry is. Go Duke!

Reddevil
04-20-2010, 09:51 AM
Last season's team was the first edition in a loooong time to be essentially a half court team. Of course personnel drove that decision. Jon was not a pg, but a game manager, and the depth at 4-5 made the half court defense/offense a strength. Next year looks to have the opposite chemistry in that it will be run by a true pg, and the depth is on the perimeter. I look for this team to run, and get after the passing lanes, and run some more like most seasons. Like one of the front page articles mentioned, Kyle can be used almost anywhere like the queen on a chessboard. The Plumlees are well suited to run and the year spent learning tough half court defense will serve them well. The rebounding will not be what it was, but the lessons learned will probably mean the fall off there will not be as extreme as some recent attacking editions. Duke will go from looking like the 2001 Ravens to the 2000 Rams. Fortunately, Coach K really knows how to skin a cat! There will be mismatches on both sides, but he and the staff will maximize the one's that favor Duke. Next season will be fun, but as we all know, having a championship season involves a little more than just talent and coaching. Peaking at the right time, matchups, and a little magic always come into play. I'm cautiously optimistic.

CDu
04-20-2010, 11:23 AM
Last season's team was the first edition in a loooong time to be essentially a half court team. Of course personnel drove that decision. Jon was not a pg, but a game manager, and the depth at 4-5 made the half court defense/offense a strength. Next year looks to have the opposite chemistry in that it will be run by a true pg, and the depth is on the perimeter. I look for this team to run, and get after the passing lanes, and run some more like most seasons. Like one of the front page articles mentioned, Kyle can be used almost anywhere like the queen on a chessboard. The Plumlees are well suited to run and the year spent learning tough half court defense will serve them well. The rebounding will not be what it was, but the lessons learned will probably mean the fall off there will not be as extreme as some recent attacking editions. Duke will go from looking like the 2001 Ravens to the 2000 Rams. Fortunately, Coach K really knows how to skin a cat! There will be mismatches on both sides, but he and the staff will maximize the one's that favor Duke. Next season will be fun, but as we all know, having a championship season involves a little more than just talent and coaching. Peaking at the right time, matchups, and a little magic always come into play. I'm cautiously optimistic.

I think I know what you're trying to say here, but you're asking for trouble in implying that the 2009-2010 didn't have a true PG. Scheyer did end up averaging over 4 assists and a 3:1 assist:turnover ratio. That's pretty good for any type of PG.

But in terms of being an up-tempo, explosive, "prototypical" PG (which is what I think you meant), I'd agree that Scheyer doesn't fit that mold. His style of PG was very different than Irving's style will be. I just think care has to be taken with the wording.

Kedsy
04-20-2010, 12:50 PM
I think I know what you're trying to say here, but you're asking for trouble in implying that the 2009-2010 didn't have a true PG. Scheyer did end up averaging over 4 assists and a 3:1 assist:turnover ratio. That's pretty good for any type of PG.

I would second this and add that CDu is even downplaying Jon's PG contributions. He averaged 4.9 apg this year, which granted is "over 4" but if you said "almost 5" it would be more accurate and sound a lot better.

DukieInBrasil
04-20-2010, 01:21 PM
I would second this and add that CDu is even downplaying Jon's PG contributions. He averaged 4.9 apg this year, which granted is "over 4" but if you said "almost 5" it would be more accurate and sound a lot better.

I would also add that averaging almost 5 apg on a "slow" tempo team is even better.

As for the point of this thread, someone was moaning our lack of big guys, which I think is unfounded. With Kyle's return, we legitimately have 5 guys 6'8 or taller. That's a lot of height. Plus 4 of em can step out beyond the elbow or all the way to 3ball land. So not only are they big but they can stretch defenses out, which has the added bonus of taking the defenses's big'uns out of the lane allowing Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Andre, Tyler and/or Carrick easy access to the rim.

SilkyJ
04-20-2010, 02:25 PM
To me, the biggest question mark for next year by a very wide margin is this: can the Plumlees stop fouling?

Ah yes, I seem to recall a discussion here :D

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19577&highlight=Official


I don't think there's much chance at all that Singler will play full-time at the 4. I think he'll play a few minutes per game at the 4, but mostly at the 3.

I agree, but I also think that this is really a factor of how strongly Mason & Miles develop relative to Curry and Dawkins. All 4 of them look to have a potential future in the NBA (i.e. they are all really good or will be really good) and how quickly they progress will really determine what the personality of our team is next year. (You could even throw Ryan Kelly in the mix there)

If the big guys get further ahead of the curve, then we're looking another "big team" personality and likely going with the Twin Towers look quite often. If the guards are ahead of the curve, then it wouldn't surprise me to see only one of Mason and Miles in the game much of the time.

CDu
04-20-2010, 02:41 PM
I agree, but I also think that this is really a factor of how strongly Mason & Miles develop relative to Curry and Dawkins. All 4 of them look to have a potential future in the NBA (i.e. they are all really good or will be really good) and how quickly they progress will really determine what the personality of our team is next year. (You could even throw Ryan Kelly in the mix there)

If the big guys get further ahead of the curve, then we're looking another "big team" personality and likely going with the Twin Towers look quite often. If the guards are ahead of the curve, then it wouldn't surprise me to see only one of Mason and Miles in the game much of the time.

I would not be at all surprised to see a bit of a hybrid between the Williams/Duhon era and the big lineup we saw last year. There will be times we go small with Singler at the 4, and there will be times we go big with Singler at the 3. How much we do of each obviously depends on the readiness of pretty much all of the non-seniors.

licc85
04-20-2010, 02:43 PM
coach K already stated that kyle will continue to play mostly on the perimeter, the plumlees got much better at smart defense and not fouling later in the year (alot of their stupid fouls were reach ins), so I wouldn't be too worried about depth issues up front.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5118990


Krzyzewski said Singler will still play primarily on the perimeter next season, though his versatility will allow him to play inside as he did more during his first two seasons.