If Singler goes, what's your starting lineup?

[Classof06]

As I posted in the Ryan Kelly thread, I began to think about this. I apologize if there's already a thread about this.


Do you take advantage of your guard depth and go with a 3-guard (Smith, Irving, Curry/Dawkins), 2-forward lineup? Do you start both Plumlees as your 2 frontcourt players?

Or, obviously dependent on how they play, do you try and fit a Felix, Hairston, or even Kelly into the 3 spot and sit Curry and/or Dawkins?

Clearly a great dilemma to have..

[Duvall]

As I posted in the Ryan Kelly thread, I began to think about this. I apologize if there's already a thread about this.


Do you take advantage of your guard depth and go with a 3-guard (Smith, Irving, Curry/Dawkins), 2-forward lineup? Do you start both Plumlees as your 2 frontcourt players?

Or, obviously dependent on how they play, do you try and fit a Felix, Hairston, or even Kelly into the 3 spot and sit Curry and/or Dawkins?

Clearly a great dilemma to have..

The former. With the caveat that most of us have yet to see much of Felix and Hairston, the latter option doesn't even sound plausible as a starting lineup.

[BattierBattalion]

I go the following:

1 Irving
2 Smith
3 Curry
4 Kelly
5 Ma. Plumlee

1-3 positions are small, quick guards who would excel in a high-tempo style. Kelly spaces the floor nicely with his three point shooting. Mason would excel offensively as the only guy in the post; he could take his guy off the dribble or kick it out. Defensively, this team would destroy due to good ball pressure from the wings and with Kelly and Plumlee clogging the middle.

[Osiagledknarf]

I think for the most part with start Dawkins there.. He is more of a option at the 3 then Curry is, and with a little bit of more muscle I think can develop into a above average defender... I think that is the most likely option with Felix backing him up...

I can at times where Coach K with use all 3 guards, but not to start.. I think we use a system of Dawkins, Felix and Hairston at the 3 if Singler does not return.. Ryan Kelly is more of a 4 or 5.

[OldSchool]

1. Kyrie
2. Nolan
3. Andre
4. Mason
5. Miles

Seth gets starters' equivalent minutes subbing on the perimeter.

Ryan gets starters' equivalent minutes subbing for Mason and Miles.

As for Felix and Josh, the opportunity for minutes are there if they step up.

I'm really excited about this line-up, it's very athletic with high scoring potential.

[HCheek37]

I think for the most part with start Dawkins there.. He is more of a option at the 3 then Curry is, and with a little bit of more muscle I think can develop into a above average defender... I think that is the most likely option with Felix backing him up...

I can at times where Coach K with use all 3 guards, but not to start.. I think we use a system of Dawkins, Felix and Hairston at the 3 if Singler does not return.. Ryan Kelly is more of a 4 or 5.

No offense to Ryan, but the day he is playing the 5 spot for us is a rough day...I think Curry jumps right into the lineup since he has a year of starting in the NCAA and a year of battling a NCAA Champs squad in practice...

Irving, Curry, Smith, Hairston and Plumlee is my 5. Good depth off the bench with Dawkins, Thornton, Kelly, Felix, Plumlee.

[OldSchool]

No offense to Ryan, but the day he is playing the 5 spot for us is a rough day.

I think we will see that very thing when Miles gets into foul trouble.

To my eye, Mason has quicker feet than Ryan and when the two of them are in the post, I can see Mason guarding the opponent's 4 man and leaving Ryan to guard the 5.

Maybe Josh will step up quickly but as a freshman I am not counting on that.

[johnb]

If Kyle leaves, that means I will have seen a lot of Nolan and enough of the Plumlees to assume that those three will be starters or in the prime rotation and enough of Andre and Ryan to know that they have potential to be terrific contributors.

I've only seen youtubes (or less) of the rest of the guys. After seeing Zoubs develop dramatically over the space of a month, and having been mildly surprised (in both directions) about new players, I'd guess we have no idea who might be the best 5 or 6 players by October or January. I do have confidence that K will want to play his best players even if that means we have three guys out there who are under 6'4". He might relish the chance to show off his versatility, since few teams can stay in the top 10 after losing 4 starters and remaking themselves as a small team after having been as big as anyone last year.

[WordLife565]

I really don't see how people could see Ryan Kelly starting.

For PURE chemistry and skill reasons, the Plumlees are truly the only two I see starting at the 4 and 5 positions. They have hops, can defend well, have incredible chemistry with one another, catch alleyoop passes even when in awkward positions, and really have a large array of inside moves in order to get the ball inside the basket, and Mason Plumlee is a legit NBA prospect.

all i've seen from Ryan Kelly is his 3 point shot. Not to mention he is pretty skinny and lanky, and Felix and Hairston are young, and kind of need to feel their way in to get their roles.


as far as the 3 spot goes, because of our plethora of guards and for pure height reasons, I say Dawkins starts out.

Curry will be the sixth man, and a scoring threat from deep, we'll definitely have another great 3 point shooting team with Curry and Dawkins, both can really shoot

[Rudy]

To start the season:

Curry
Smith
Dawkins
MP 1
MP 2

Irving may win the starting pg spot as the season goes on, but I predict he isn't handed the keys on the first date.

[AlaskanAssassin]

Thornton
Irving
Smith
Curry
Dawkins

:)

[FireOgilvie]

To start the season:

Curry
Smith
Dawkins
MP 1
MP 2

Irving may win the starting pg spot as the season goes on, but I predict he isn't handed the keys on the first date.

There's zero chance that a healthy Kyrie Irving comes off the bench. Zero.

[Duvall]

To start the season:

Curry
Smith
Dawkins
MP 1
MP 2

Irving may win the starting pg spot as the season goes on, but I predict he isn't handed the keys on the first date.

Yeah, aside from Johnny Dawkins, Tommy Amaker, Bobby Hurley, Jeff Capel, Jason Williams and Greg Paulus, freshmen guards at Duke never get to start at the point from Day 1.

I mean, Curry may beat Irving out for the job. But it won't be because Irving is a freshman, it'll be because Curry is playing better.

[DukieInBrasil]

I really don't see how people could see Ryan Kelly starting.

For PURE chemistry and skill reasons, the Plumlees are truly the only two I see starting at the 4 and 5 positions. They have hops, can defend well, have incredible chemistry with one another, catch alleyoop passes even when in awkward positions, and really have a large array of inside moves in order to get the ball inside the basket.

all i've seen from Ryan Kelly is his 3 point shot. Not to mention he is pretty skinny and lanky.

i agree that Ryan probably won't start, but The MPs have not shown that they defend well, in fact quite the opposite. They both certainly have the potential to be excellent interior defenders but they haven't done so yet. Also, Felix is not that young, he's 2 years removed from HS, coming in from a JUCO. He'll still have to learn the Duke system, but he's older than Kelly or Mason.


As for HCheek37: "Irving, Curry, Smith, Hairston and Plumlee is my 5. Good depth off the bench with Dawkins, Thornton, Kelly, Felix, Plumlee."

I have to say that either Plumlee has the advantage over Hairston as a starter. I like Curry starting though b/c of the maturity issue, he's 2 years removed from HS plus he was a starter and produced in a big way at Liberty. Dawkins is still quite young and just needs some time, maybe this summer will be enough, but from what we saw last year (when we won the Championship!!!!) I don't see him as a starter for next year.

I'm no coach but my 5 are:
PG - Irving
2G - Nolan
G - Curry
F - Plumlee I
F - Plumlee II

Everybody coming off the bench has a serious case to make for minutes, principally Kelly, Dawkins and Carrick as they have collegiate experience. There are probably more minutes available for Hairston as a F than for Thorton as a G.

[WordLife565]

I don't really see Curry starting over Irving because Irving is a possible one and done, and is one of our best NBA prospects in a while. So most likely he is going the be the most talented player, more talented than Curry in every aspect but 3-point shooting, and Kyrie is pretty good at that too.

I don't see Curry starting over Dawkins, because we wouldn't have a good amount of size in our starting lineup, but I could definitely see him still being a double digit scoring threat for sure.

[Hyoster]

1. Kyrie
2. Nolan
3. Andre
4. Mason
5. Miles

Seth gets starters' equivalent minutes subbing on the perimeter.

Ryan gets starters' equivalent minutes subbing for Mason and Miles.

As for Felix and Josh, the opportunity for minutes are there if they step up.

I'm really excited about this line-up, it's very athletic with high scoring potential.


That's exactly what I was going to write. I can see Andre and Seth switching off.

[dukeballboy88]

PG-Kyrie is poised even though he is a freshman plus the dude does everything good. I see him at the point as long as he is at Duke.

SG-Nolan proved he can score with the best of them last year and now that he is playing with confidence there is no reason why he cant avg 19 ppg again. Playing with a quicker more of an all around point, no disrespect to Scheyer, I think he will get even more looks.

SF-I got to go with Dawkins here. After seeing him in high school i was kind of glad Elliot Williams left because that ment Andre was gonna get more minutes. The kid is more than a shooter he can flat out score from all over the court. Next year I think your gonna see this kid really flourish playing along side Irving. I see him avg. at least 14 to 15 ppg.

PF-Miles will be a junior and much more experienced after playing in big games at the end of the year. I expect alot out of Miles kind of where Lance left off as far as the guy who cleans the glass and gets down and dirty on d.

C-Mason is gonna explode next year and maybe a first team all acc guy. He is very skilled for a big man and can pass out of the post as good as any big man that has come into the acc in a long time. If he can develope a face to the basket jumper like Laettner used to kill em with from about 12 ft, this kid may avg. 17 a game.

Wild Card is Felix. The more ive read about him the more I like. He has great size and is very athletic. This kid may take the devil nation and the acc by storm. he is the type of kid that u will be up late watching a sorry pac 10 game and seeing a guy drop 25 with some thunderus dunks. And you say to ur self, where did Herb find this kid!

[basket1544]

I know this isn't how this works, but it would be funny if Dawkins and Curry had a shooting contest to determine who starts and who is the 6th man on this team. This is a truly fun what if, but I still want the starting 5 to be:
1) Kyrie (yes most freshmen don't start but he's been called the best PG out of Jersey and that says a lot to Duke fans)
2) Nolan
3) Kyle (please don't go!)
4) MP1
5) MP2 (hopefully both Plumlees will mature into their defensive abilities this summer)

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I know this isn't how this works, but it would be funny if Dawkins and Curry had a shooting contest to determine who starts and who is the 6th man on this team. This is a truly fun what if, but I still want the starting 5 to be:
1) Kyrie (yes most freshmen don't start but he's been called the best PG out of Jersey and that says a lot to Duke fans)
2) Nolan
3) Kyle (please don't go!)
4) MP1
5) MP2 (hopefully both Plumlees will mature into their defensive abilities this summer)

No offense i think we all want kyle to stay but this thread is about if he leaves. So what's the point of putting him in the lineup?

[licc85]

the plumlees will both start. I can't see any other scenario, they have the most experience, and have great chemistry together. Coach K values that. KI will be the floor general and main ball handler of this team, everything will run through him, and he will obviously start. Nolan is the senior leader of the team, and the only remaining full time starter from our championship team, so he is the de facto captain and starter at one of the wing spots.

That leaves the final wing spot open to whoever fills the role best. I believe it will be the player who shows the greatest improvement defensively. Seth, Dre, Josh, and Carrick all have a shot to start, but I believe it will realistically be between Seth and Dre, with Dre winning out in the end because of his size and athleticism. I think he will improve defensively over the summer and early next season. Seth will play starter minutes, and he will probably be our best pure scorer. He can really handle the ball and shoot from outrageous distance, but he is only 6'1", which puts him at a disadvantage on defense.

recap:
PG K. Irving
SG: N. Smith
SG: A. Dawkins
PF: Ma. Plumlee
C: Mi. Plumlee

[Osiagledknarf]

Thornton
Irving
Smith
Curry
Dawkins

:)


Sereval Points:


Okay so why would you have two PG's in the starting lineup? I agree that Thronton is an underrated prospect but still, if you had them both in the lineup at the same time we would have incredible miss matchs with bigger guards and forwards.. You have 4 guards in the starting lineup.. It is risky to do it with 3 guards let alone 4..

How can you go into next year with Mason and Miles being on the bench? Mason is a super athletic center with incredible offensive skills and Miles has shown he can make a lot of plays on the defensive end, and has shown he can be average to above average on the offensive end.. With this lineup we would be killed with size down low, and would not be able to compete with bigger teams...


It would be an absolute and complete train wreck to put this lineup in..

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Sereval Points:


Okay so why would you have two PG's in the starting lineup? I agree that Thronton is an underrated prospect but still, if you had them both in the lineup at the same time we would have incredible miss matchs with bigger guards and forwards.. You have 4 guards in the starting lineup.. It is risky to do it with 3 guards let alone 4..

How can you go into next year with Mason and Miles being on the bench? Mason is a super athletic center with incredible offensive skills and Miles has shown he can make a lot of plays on the defensive end, and has shown he can be average to above average on the offensive end.. With this lineup we would be killed with size down low, and would not be able to compete with bigger teams...


It would be an absolute and complete train wreck to put this lineup in..

I'm 100% sure he was joking

[MChambers]

Sereval Points:


Okay so why would you have two PG's in the starting lineup? I agree that Thronton is an underrated prospect but still, if you had them both in the lineup at the same time we would have incredible miss matchs with bigger guards and forwards.. You have 4 guards in the starting lineup.. It is risky to do it with 3 guards let alone 4..

How can you go into next year with Mason and Miles being on the bench? Mason is a super athletic center with incredible offensive skills and Miles has shown he can make a lot of plays on the defensive end, and has shown he can be average to above average on the offensive end.. With this lineup we would be killed with size down low, and would not be able to compete with bigger teams...


It would be an absolute and complete train wreck to put this lineup in..

Your sarcasm/humor detector may be malfunctioning.

[Osiagledknarf]

Your sarcasm/humor detector may be malfunctioning.

Oh sorry, my bad.. :D

[cbarry]

I know it's a pipe dream, and likely a snowball's chance in a very warm place, but I sure hope Kyle stays at Duke next year! I wish him the best in whatever he does, but how awesome would we be with KS back at Duke

[superdave]

Thornton
Irving
Smith
Curry
Dawkins

:)

Your post made my day, until I realized this is the offense Villanova ran this year.

[Tsetse0510]

There is Absolutely NO WAY on god's Green Earth that Kyrie will not start!
He is better than advertised! He will also make everyone better immediately.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

There is Absolutely NO WAY on god's Green Earth that this young man will not start!
He is better than advertised! He will also make everyone better immediately.

I assume you mean Kyrie?

[dukelifer]

Thornton
Irving
Smith
Curry
Dawkins

:)

I bet we see it once or twice next year.

[Cisco]

How do you guys know kyrie is better then seth curry?

If kyle stays, i could see curry starting over kyrie...

and if he leaves, it could still be Smith Curry Dawkins.

Nobody will know until the fall comes around!

[Jderf]

How do you guys know kyrie is better then seth curry?

If kyle stays, i could see curry starting over kyrie...

and if he leaves, it could still be Smith Curry Dawkins.

Nobody will know until the fall comes around!

I take it that the general wisdom on this is that Kyrie simply has more of a PG skill set than the others, not really a question of who is a better player. Personally, I would guess that Kyrie will run the offense most of the time, and occasionally Nolan (especially considering his experience in the system), and just maybe a bit of Thornton (I have no idea what his skill level is). Most people, I think, would agree that Seth, Andre, and even Nolan are much better playing off the ball. I predict a lot of three-guard lineups will see the court, unless Felix surprises me a lot (which I can't rule out).

[Big Pappa]

How do you guys know kyrie is better then seth curry?

If kyle stays, i could see curry starting over kyrie...

and if he leaves, it could still be Smith Curry Dawkins.

Nobody will know until the fall comes around!

I know because I have watched both of them play. Kyrie is much more of a true PG than Seth anyway.

Here is my starting lineup:

1-Kyrie
2-Nolan
3-Andre
4-Miles
5-Mason

Seth is a great player and the beauty of having him is that he can come in off the bench and play 1-3 position. I think Ryan will get minutes at both the 4 (either for Miles or moving Miles to the 5 while Mason sits) and the 3. I think Josh has potential to spell either Miles or Mason while I think Carrick can get good minutes at the 2,3, or 4. Carrick is really a talented player and I think he could be a big part of what we do next year. I don't see significant minutes for Thornton this year unless someone goes down.

[BattierBattalion]

Regardless of what our starting lineup is, this will be an incredibly fun team to watch. It's the perfect personnel for an up-tempo, high possession style. Also, talent-wise, we have perhaps, the best Duke team in recent memory for killer pressure-extended defense. N. Smith is already one of the best on-ball defenders in the nation. Curry and Irving have all the physical tools necessary to do so (speed and athleticism). And Thorton will bring havoc off the bench (he was recruited for his strong safety defense more than anything). Even Dawkins and Felix could be elite pressure defenders.

I expect us to destroy slow, plodding teams (e.g. FSU). Plus, If I was a UNC fan, I would seriously hope that our ball-handling/point guard issues get fixed quickly. :D

[roywhite]

And Thorton will bring havoc off the bench (he was recruited for his strong safety defense more than anything).

This Thorton guy....is he any kin to Sheldon Williams, or Greg Zoubek?

Tyler Thornton

[COYS]

I take it that the general wisdom on this is that Kyrie simply has more of a PG skill set than the others, not really a question of who is a better player.

I think this is right on. Skill set really is the key issue. The staff will know how to best handle the players, but Nolan blossomed once he was freed from the burdens of running the offense and could just attack. It sounds like Curry is a similar player and I'd think the staff would like to allow him to stay in attack mode from the get go. This obviously doesn't mean that Curry can't/won't play point guard from time to time, but I bet that running the offense isn't his primary role next season. I think we're likely to see him in a role similar to Scheyer's role his sophomore season. I could easily see Curry come off the bench and yet average 25+mpg. Assuming no new developments I think that the starting lineup will be:

Kyrie
Nolan
Andre
Mason
Miles

Kelly and Hairston will certainly get a chance to play as Mason and Miles probably won't solve all of their foul problems, and, even though I expect an improvement, it probably will be hard for them to reach 25mpg. Curry will be first guard off the bench but I also think Carrick will get a shot at significant minutes, too.

As many have noted, this team will be able to give opponents a ton of different looks. It will be interesting to see what K sees as the identity of this team. This past season it was clearly toughness and defense. Even our offensive efficiency was based on tough rebounding and clinical half-court execution. If we continue that trend, I could see a lineup with Kyrie, Nolan, Carrick, Mason, and Miles, as that may very well be our best defensive lineup. On the other hand, if we play with extended ball pressure and rely on forcing a full court game, I could even see us using a lineup with Kyrie, Nolan, Andre/Seth, Carrick, Mason/Miles quite a bit. No matter which direction we go, I look forward to seeing how the team develops. When does the season start?

[hedevil]

Im sticking with my earlier prediction of Kyrie, Smith, Curry, Plumlees 1 and 2. I think we will see Andre playing the same role as this past season. Getting minutes subbing in for positions 1-3, but for more minutes of course. Fouls and bad decisions on court/in game will also determine rotations at certain times. At the 4 and 5, I see the Plumlees starting with subs Kelly and Hairston in waiting. Felix and Andre will also get minutes (IMO) at the four when K wants to speed up tempo, playing alongside Irving, Smith, and Curry.

[DukieBoy]

I can't recall a time when a team wins a national title and two weeks later, there's vehement discussion about next year's team. And I love it!

Next year's team could be truly special, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. They are still going to need to perform at a high level

As for the lineup to start the year, we'll probably start with experience first

PG - Irving
SG - Smith
SF - Dawkins
PF - Ma. Plumlee
C - Mi. Plumlee

Kelly or Curry might break into the lineup, but from what I can remember, K usually starts with some experience at the beginning of the year

[ACCBBallFan]

I go the following:

1 Irving
2 Smith
3 Curry
4 Kelly
5 Ma. Plumlee

1-3 positions are small, quick guards who would excel in a high-tempo style. Kelly spaces the floor nicely with his three point shooting. Mason would excel offensively as the only guy in the post; he could take his guy off the dribble or kick it out. Defensively, this team would destroy due to good ball pressure from the wings and with Kelly and Plumlee clogging the middle.

This, except I would replace Curry with Dawkins for height/strength at WF unless Felix earns the starting position, and not sure which Plumlee to pair with Ryan Kelly and which to pair with Josh Thornton.

Irving/ Curry (Thornton)

Smith/ Curry (Dawkins)

(Singler 50%) Dawkins / Felix (Kelly)

(Singler 50%) Kelly / Hairston (Mason)

Plumlee / Plumlee (Hairston/Kelly as necessary)

If Kyle returns, pretty much the same with Kyle playing 15 MPG at WF and another 15 MPG at PF moving the new guys further back in the rotation for one year before they emerge.

[MChambers]

I know because I have watched both of them play. Kyrie is much more of a true PG than Seth anyway.

I think Ryan will get minutes at both the 4 (either for Miles or moving Miles to the 5 while Mason sits) and the 3. I think Josh has potential to spell either Miles or Mason while I think Carrick can get good minutes at the 2,3, or 4. Carrick is really a talented player and I think he could be a big part of what we do next year.

Have you seen Felix play? I'm curious how you know or think he's really talented, at least relative to the other talent on the roster.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I can't recall a time when a team wins a national title and two weeks later, there's vehement discussion about next year's team. And I love it!

Next year's team could be truly special, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. They are still going to need to perform at a high level

As for the lineup to start the year, we'll probably start with experience first

PG - Irving
SG - Smith
SF - Dawkins
PF - Ma. Plumlee
C - Mi. Plumlee

Kelly or Curry might break into the lineup, but from what I can remember, K usually starts with some experience at the beginning of the year

Agreed. That line-up is a perfect mix of experience, size, and skill. However, for the first month or two, I fully expect K to play around with the line up (and more so than most years) because we have so many options.

And at the end of the day, one thing will be absolutely certain - Nolan will always start.

[MChambers]

I can't recall a time when a team wins a national title and two weeks later, there's vehement discussion about next year's team. And I love it!

Next year's team could be truly special, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. They are still going to need to perform at a high level


I think the biggest question about the team is interior defense. I expect Smith, Irving, and Currie to all be very good defensively, but, again assuming Kyle doesn't return, I wonder whether we'll be very good covering bigger players.

We can talk all we want about starting lineups (which seems a little silly to me, but fun), but to me the question will be whether Duke can be very good again defensively, and I think it's a big question.

[roywhite]

I think the biggest question about the team is interior defense. I expect Smith, Irving, and Currie to all be very good defensively, but, again assuming Kyle doesn't return, I wonder whether we'll be very good covering bigger players.

We can talk all we want about starting lineups (which seems a little silly to me, but fun), but to me the question will be whether Duke can be very good again defensively, and I think it's a big question.

Stronger perimeter defense can offset some drop in interior defense.

Remember how Johnny Dawkins and Tommy Amaker used to spring traps on ball handlers? I can see KI and Nolan developing a similar skill set.

We may lose some rebounding and inside defense, but should generate more turnovers and will make it very difficult for opponents to start their offense.

[Jderf]

I think, from surveying the posts above, that the real question will be the 3 (if Kyle leaves). If he stays, I don't think anyone will argue that the most likely line-up right now would be Kyrie-Nolan-Kyle-Mason-Miles. (Although you have to leave room for the possibility of one of our role players separating themselves from the pack over the summer, it seems unlikely that any of these guys will get de-throned, save for maybe Ryan squeezing in with a big improvement.)

If Kyle leaves, well, then things really open up. Everybody seems to agree that K will probably start Kyrie-Nolan-BLANK-Mason-Miles. Who fills in that three spot remains to be seen and will probably be decided in practice. Remember, Andre may have more in-game experience than Seth with Duke (though not much, really), but Seth has spent just as much time with the team (actually, more, since Andre missed the summer) and is much older and also started his entire freshman season and scored 20 ppg. I see Seth as the most likely to get into the lineup. Still though, we can't rule out Andre or even Felix for that matter.

So the 1 and 2 seem completely locked up for Kyrie and Nolan. The 3 is wide open if Kyle leaves. The 4 and 5 are probably going to Mason and Miles, but it probably won't be anything more than a status symbol; I see playing time at the 4 and 5 going in every direction.

Whether or not Kyle stays, the ceiling for this team is going to be high. Get excited.

[InSpades]

I think, from surveying the posts above, that the real question will be the 3 (if Kyle leaves). If he stays, I don't think anyone will argue that the most likely line-up right now would be Kyrie-Nolan-Kyle-Mason-Miles. (Although you have to leave room for the possibility of one of our role players separating themselves from the pack over the summer, it seems unlikely that any of these guys will get de-throned, save for maybe Ryan squeezing in with a big improvement.)


I actually think the lineup is more up-in-the-air if Kyle stays. The most likely starters next year are Kyrie, Nolan, Andre, Seth, Kyle, Mason and Miles. 7 guys for 5 spots. If Kyle goes I think most people have agreed that it comes down to Seth and Andre for the last starting spot. If Kyle stays... I think it comes down to Seth, Andre or one of the Plumlees. I don't think you can discount the possibility that Kyle goes back to playing the 4. A lineup of Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Kyle and Mason would be ridiculously difficult to guard. If Kyle comes back this will be a special offensive team. Exciting indeed.

[Big Pappa]

I actually think the lineup is more up-in-the-air if Kyle stays. The most likely starters next year are Kyrie, Nolan, Andre, Seth, Kyle, Mason and Miles. 7 guys for 5 spots. If Kyle goes I think most people have agreed that it comes down to Seth and Andre for the last starting spot. If Kyle stays... I think it comes down to Seth, Andre or one of the Plumlees. I don't think you can discount the possibility that Kyle goes back to playing the 4. A lineup of Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Kyle and Mason would be ridiculously difficult to guard. If Kyle comes back this will be a special offensive team. Exciting indeed.

I see what you're saying but I honestly can't see Kyle playing to 4 if he comes back. Two years ago he really struggled playing the 4, guarding the bigger man as well as posting up on the bigger man. He is a 3 and flourished (after his wrist healed) last year when he got to play his true position.

I also notice an increasing number of people sitting Miles out of the SL on this thread. I honestly can't see that unless Ryan adds a lot of bulk and inside skill during the summer and off season. We can't forget that Miles started the first 3/4 of the season and played extremely well after he was paired with Mason. They have been playing together since they were born and after watching them last year the chemistry is undeniable.

If Kyle stays he will be the 3 and if he goes it will be between Andre, Seth and possibly Ryan. I don't think there is any doubt of Mason and Miles starting down low together unless there is an injury during the off season.

[MChambers]

Stronger perimeter defense can offset some drop in interior defense.

Remember how Johnny Dawkins and Tommy Amaker used to spring traps on ball handlers? I can see KI and Nolan developing a similar skill set.

We may lose some rebounding and inside defense, but should generate more turnovers and will make it very difficult for opponents to start their offense.

Yes, I am old enough to have seen Dawkins and Amaker! Or Hurley and the Hills.

I definitely think extended defensive pressure will help, but I still worry about interior defense, because, well, because I worry, and because Duke won't have any proven defenders on the front line. I think the players we have might yet be excellent interior defenders, but they haven't shown it thus far.

[roywhite]

Yes, I am old enough to have seen Dawkins and Amaker! Or Hurley and the Hills.

I definitely think extended defensive pressure will help, but I still worry about interior defense, because, well, because I worry, and because Duke won't have any proven defenders on the front line. I think the players we have might yet be excellent interior defenders, but they haven't shown it thus far.

Mason and Miles have size, good leaping ability, and some talent for blocking shots. That's a good start, but I agree they do need to work on some things, like positioning, not losing track of their man, and being aggressive without fouling.

[Jderf]

I actually think the lineup is more up-in-the-air if Kyle stays. The most likely starters next year are Kyrie, Nolan, Andre, Seth, Kyle, Mason and Miles. 7 guys for 5 spots. If Kyle goes I think most people have agreed that it comes down to Seth and Andre for the last starting spot. If Kyle stays... I think it comes down to Seth, Andre or one of the Plumlees. I don't think you can discount the possibility that Kyle goes back to playing the 4. A lineup of Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Kyle and Mason would be ridiculously difficult to guard. If Kyle comes back this will be a special offensive team. Exciting indeed.

I agree that we'll definitely see some three-guard even if Kyle stays. (I mean, we did this year with an even bigger surplus of forwards, and with so many talented guards, there would be no way to keep them all off the court.) However, I don't see that as a likely starting line-up day-in-day-out. Yes, playing Kyle at the 4 can create mismatches for us, BUT it will also create mismatches for the other team in other positions (assuming that we're playing against a textbook basketball team, which we never will). I think Kyle at the three (his natural position) still gives us mismatches without creating other imbalances elsewhere, which is why I would see him as our primary small-forward. Also, I just don't see a sophomore Mason or a junior Miles starting on the bench.

Here is, it seems to me, the key issue. If Kyle stays, the in-game lineup is more variable and dangerously flexible - dangerous, that is, for the other team. We will be able to hit our opponents with tons of different looks throughout the course of a single game, and we should be nothing short of unstoppable. But the starting lineup, I still think, will be more rigid. Whereas if Kyle goes, our in-game lineup is less flexible and our starting lineup is more flexible.

So if Kyle stays, then: extremely flexible in-game lineup, rigid starting lineup. If Kyle goes, then: (only) very flexible in-game lineup, mildly uncertain starting lineup.

Either way, it's gonna be fun to watch.

[InSpades]

I see what you're saying but I honestly can't see Kyle playing to 4 if he comes back. Two years ago he really struggled playing the 4, guarding the bigger man as well as posting up on the bigger man. He is a 3 and flourished (after his wrist healed) last year when he got to play his true position.


Kyle dominated when other 4s were guarding him. If anything he has more trouble when there's an athletic 3 guarding him. 4s can't chase him around screens or cover him off the dribble. I don't see how you can say he struggled 2 years ago. His last 2 seasons were virtually identical from an offensive perspective (junior year he played a bit more, took a few more shots, but that's about the only difference, he was more efficient his sophomore year).

More importantly from a team perspective... of the 7 players most likely to contribute next year, Kyle is the 3rd biggest. If Duke wants to get it's best players on the court then a lot of time Kyle will be the 2nd biggest. Duke goes from being "guard light" to "guard heavy" pretty quickly.

That being said... even though Kyle would play the 4 I don't think his game would change that much. He'd still be shooting lots of 3s and handling the ball on the perimeter.

[Big Pappa]

Kyle dominated when other 4s were guarding him. If anything he has more trouble when there's an athletic 3 guarding him. 4s can't chase him around screens or cover him off the dribble. I don't see how you can say he struggled 2 years ago. His last 2 seasons were virtually identical from an offensive perspective (junior year he played a bit more, took a few more shots, but that's about the only difference, he was more efficient his sophomore year).

More importantly from a team perspective... of the 7 players most likely to contribute next year, Kyle is the 3rd biggest. If Duke wants to get it's best players on the court then a lot of time Kyle will be the 2nd biggest. Duke goes from being "guard light" to "guard heavy" pretty quickly.

That being said... even though Kyle would play the 4 I don't think his game would change that much. He'd still be shooting lots of 3s and handling the ball on the perimeter.

Kyle scored almost 100 more points this year as the 3 and took 42 more free throws than the year before (he gets fouled more on the perimeter than in the post). His rebounding didn't suffer at all from the 4 in 08', 09' to the 3 last year (284 to 280). He also had more assists, less turnovers, and significantly less fouls which was the biggest problem with him playing the 4. If you watched him two years ago and last year it was obvious that he was significantly more comfortable playing the 3.

He also does a much better job guarding smaller guys (Lace Dunn) and can pull up and shoot over most 3 guards that play him. I don't agree that he has trouble scoring on guards at all. He does, however, have a problem guarding a big, solid 4-man (like Hansbrough, Thompson and/or Ed Davis 2 years ago).

[Jderf]

If you watched him two years ago and last year it was obvious that he was significantly more comfortable playing the 3.

I love how this thread slipped so quickly from a discussion of the starting lineup without Kyle to a discussion of Kyle. That said, if you like at Kyle's progress from freshman year, it's difficult to assess how much the difference in his numbers has come from the move to the perimeter, natural maturation, or simply more playing time. His points per shot have remained almost dead-even throughout his career, his 3 pt % has gone up while his field goal % went down, and his fouls per game have definitely gone down. However, once again it is extremely difficult to determine the exact source of the changes. If you read my post just above, I like Kyle better on the perimeter (remember that after K tweaked the offense in the wake of the Georgetown loss, that's when Kyle started playing the best bball of his career, putting up 19 ppg IIRC). But that's just me. Who knows what Coach K has up his sleeve?

[InSpades]

Kyle scored almost 100 more points this year as the 3 and took 42 more free throws than the year before (he gets fouled more on the perimeter than in the post). His rebounding didn't suffer at all from the 4 in 08', 09' to the 3 last year (284 to 280). He also had more assists, less turnovers, and significantly less fouls which was the biggest problem with him playing the 4. If you watched him two years ago and last year it was obvious that he was significantly more comfortable playing the 3.


Kyle also played 3 more games this year than last year (and more minutes in those games). He's also a year more experienced. Don't you think those 2 things had more impact on his scoring than a change in position? He scored exactly as many points per shot this year as he did last year. You are really stretching to say that Kyle was better offensively at the 3 than at the 4.

No doubt Kyle would struggle to guard a guy like Ed Davis and he obviously did a great job on Dunn, Butler and Hayward. At the same time there's no way Ed Davis could cover Kyle, Duke would have a huge edge in that matchup. Also most teams don't have 2 post guys with that much size and talent.

The biggest reason for Kyle at the 4 is Kyrie, Nolan, Andre and Seth. How many minutes do those 4 play? At most there's like 90 minutes available without Kyle playing the 4 (80 at 1 and 2 and 10 while Kyle sits). He might not start at the 4 but he will play it a bunch if he comes back. If you start Kyrie, Nolan, Kyle, Mason and Miles... then your 1st 2 guys off the bench are Andre and Seth... who do they take out?

[CDu]

Kyle also played 3 more games this year than last year (and more minutes in those games). He's also a year more experienced. Don't you think those 2 things had more impact on his scoring than a change in position? He scored exactly as many points per shot this year as he did last year. You are really stretching to say that Kyle was better offensively at the 3 than at the 4.

Well said. Using count stats from this year compared to previous years is not a very strong argument for suggesting Singler is better at the 3 than at the 4 in college. He actually averaged fewer points per minute, fewer rebounds per minute, fewer assists per minute, and fewer steals per minute and fewer blocks per minute this year compared to last year.

I'm not saying that he wasn't fantastic at the 3 this year. But to say that he was better at the 3 than he was at the 4 is certainly not supported by the standard rate stats. And that is even ignoring the fact that, as you said, he almost certainly was a better overall player coming into this season than he was coming into his sophomore year.


The biggest reason for Kyle at the 4 is Kyrie, Nolan, Andre and Seth. How many minutes do those 4 play? At most there's like 90 minutes available without Kyle playing the 4 (80 at 1 and 2 and 10 while Kyle sits). He might not start at the 4 but he will play it a bunch if he comes back. If you start Kyrie, Nolan, Kyle, Mason and Miles... then your 1st 2 guys off the bench are Andre and Seth... who do they take out?

Exactly. Coach K tends to put his best players on the floor, with only a general regard to position. If we have four guards who are better than our second big, then we will play a lot of four-guard lineups. If we have three bigs better than our third guard, we'll see a lot of two-guard lineups.

This year, we had only three guys smaller than Singler in the regular rotation. It was imperative that he played the 3. Next year, we'll have four or five guys in the regular rotation that are smaller, and only three guys taller. So while I'd suspect that he starts at the 3 if he comes back, I would also expect to see him get 5+ minutes at the 4 as well. And the actual number of minutes at the 4 would depend on the readiness of the Plumlees and Kelly/Hairston to carry the load at the 4/5 spots.

[Saratoga2]

After the experience with a big lineup last year, I find it hard to believe that we would go small because we have three top notch guards. Without Kyle, I believe the starting lineup will be Miles, Mason, Nolan, Kyrie and -------. Thae 3 is kind of an unknown since we really will need some size there. Dawkins is a good possibility as well as Carrick due to his defensive ability and size.

At any rate,the bigs usually need a lot of substitution, so Ryan and Josh will get a lot of playing time based on performance. Also Curry is likely to sub in for both Nolan and Kyrie. He is likely to get around 20 minutes doing only that. Thornton is also a wild card with some PT going his way, especially in the case of an injury or illness to one of the three other guards.

From what I understand, Nolan is the tallest of the group including Tyler, Seth and Kyrie, so moving any of them to the 3 is questionable.

[InSpades]

After the experience with a big lineup last year, I find it hard to believe that we would go small because we have three top notch guards.

If only we could find an example of a situation where a coach tried to stick with a strategy that won him a national championship the previous year despite the fact that his personnel changed drastically... maybe we could learn something from it :).

I'm not saying we won't go big next year... but if we do it won't be because it worked last year. It's times like this when you are most thankful we have the best coach in the business.

[Cockabeau]

ki
smith
Curry
PLUMLEE
Carrick FELIX

[Kedsy]

ki
smith
Curry
PLUMLEE
Carrick FELIX

This would be one of the smallest teams in the country. We may play that lineup for short stretches while we press full court, but it would be surprising if we did it more than a few minutes a game and shocking if it was the starting lineup.

[Jderf]

This would be one of the smallest teams in the country. We may play that lineup for short stretches while we press full court, but it would be surprising if we did it more than a few minutes a game and shocking if it was the starting lineup.

Instead, how about:

PG: Kyle
SG: Ryan
SF: Hairston
PF: Mason
C: Miles

[NSDukeFan]

Instead, how about:

PG: Kyle
SG: Ryan
SF: Hairston
PF: Mason
C: Miles

Then we can borrow from Boeheim and play a big zone. :)

[Kedsy]

Instead, how about:

PG: Kyle
SG: Ryan
SF: Hairston
PF: Mason
C: Miles

Well, yes, that's much more reasonable.;)

[Bob Green]

....I honestly can't see Kyle playing to 4 if he comes back....I also notice an increasing number of people sitting Miles out of the SL on this thread....

I agree with both these points. If Kyle Singler returns for his senior season, he will play on the wing. Why would he agree to return just to be moved back inside when his NBA position is the wing? It isn't logical.

In regard to Miles Plumlee, he started 24 games in the post as a sophomore and is the only true post player on the roster. Miles showed tremendous improvement between his freshman and sophomore seasons, with another summer of development, including both increased physical strength and greater understanding of the game, Miles has the potential to be a dominant inside force.

I will be very suprised if a healthy Miles Plumlee doesn't start every game in the post as a junior.

[Rudy]

. . . . If he stays, I don't think anyone will argue that the most likely line-up right now would be Kyrie-Nolan-Kyle-Mason-Miles. . . . . it seems unlikely that any of these guys will get de-throned . . . .
I'm amused that just about everyone has put Kyrie on the throne on the basis of scouting reports, a few highlight films and a high school all star game. I hope he's as good as you guys think, but I'm skeptical.


Remember, Andre may have more in-game experience than Seth with Duke (though not much, really), but Seth has spent just as much time with the team (actually, more, since Andre missed the summer) and is much older and also started his entire freshman season and scored 20 ppg.
Seth isn't big enough for the 3 position, I gather, unless we're up against a team who is short there, too. So, he's either at PG or SG and will compete for time with Kyrie as much as with Andre. I agree no one's beating out Nolan unless he gets hurt or has a crisis of confidence like he did sophomore year and that's VERY unlikely. No one is guaranteed a starting slot (though a returning Kyle and/or Nolan are close to that), even the second coming of John Wall.

Nolan improved his ball handling this past year over the previous one and can handle point, too, I would think. It's a nice problem to have with 4 highly talented guards.

We'll see.:)

[Cameron]

Nolan is most assuredly guaranteed a starting spot, as is Singler if he comes back. If Kyle makes the decision to return to Durham, it will be a very, very intense battle for that third position in the backcourt. Can you imagine Kyrie Irving, Andre Dawkins and Seth Curry fighting for that position? What an outstanding dilemma to have. Although, it would probably be more of a jostle between Seth and Kyrie as Andre doesn't play point and Nolan is unlikely to overtake that position once again.

Personally, I think it would be Kyrie at the point, with Seth subbing for both Kyrie and Nolan and Andre for Kyle and/or whomever might be playing the three if Kyle is in the four slot against a smaller team.

Way too early to tell, though, obviously. If Kyle bolts (and I can't blame him), then Andre will be in the lineup, IMO.

[MrBisonDevil]

Curry has two full years of playing PG, 1yr at Liberty and 1yr at Duke (practices). Curry knows the offense. No way this talent sits over a freshman, no matter how great Kyrie is going to be. Kyrie will probably get a few starts at the end of the season. Regardless, Kyrie + Curry will each average 20+ mins.

Smith will take over some ball handling duties. Coach K likes to put the ball in hands of seniors (see JJ Redick & Jon Scheyer).

G - Curry (25+ starts)
G - Smith (30+ starts)
G/F - UP FOR GRABS
F - MP2 (30+ starts)
F/C - MP1 (30+ starts)

I think we will see a lot of folks going in and out of the G/F position.

[Cameron]

^^I'd be inclined to agree with that, unless Kyrie really is the second coming of Jason Williams, which many seem to believe he is.

Like I said, it will be a great dilemma to have.

[Duke of Nashville]

Since when has K played positions? Did anyone watch the Nike Hoops Summit Scrimmage tape? Kyrie/Knight/Barnes all brough the ball up the court. Even in the beginning of the year Kyrie was not bring the ball up the court for St. Patricks...it didn't work out and he moved back to bringing up the ball...but I am sure that with four athletic guards (Kyrie,Curry,Dawkins, and Smith) K will find a good rotation. Just my opinion and guess really to be honest but I say:

Kyrie
Curry
Smith
MP1
MP2

Just because I think that is the most talented line-up that we could offer without Kyle.

[Cameron]

K doesn't play "positions," we all know that, but it's the easiest way to decipher a potential starting lineup.

[Tim1515]

Kyrie is going to start. I'm not one to get all hyped about freshman (i personally think Felix, Hairston and Tyler all spend a lot of time on the bench) but Irving (only player in Duke history to wear #1) will start.

Looking into the future with Rivers and to a lesser extent Quincy...not starting Irving will really hurt the chances of landing either as disappointing as that sounds.

Anyway...Curry might start also but i think it is more likely that he comes off the bench early and there is a good rotation between Kyrie, Nolan, Seth and Andre

[RoyalBlue08]

I think it is Nolan, Seth, Kyrie, MP1 and MP2. It means playing three true guards, but who cares. Let other teams worry about matching up with us instead of worrying how we match up with them. The most interesting question to me is who sits if Kyle does come back. I think it is Seth, but honestly I could see it going any way.

[hedevil]

Why do people feel that Dre is more experienced than Curry? If Dre can out perform Seth during practice then he will get the starting spot. But it won't be because of experience, Curry has played a full year of collegiate ball (as a starter), in addition to playing in the Duke system for a full year during practice. He has an endorsement from Nolan as to how good he is in practice. To think that Dre will start because of size is one thing, but it won't be due to experience. Personally, I think K will make teams worry about matching up with us versus the other way around. Either way it doesn't look good for everybody else.:D

[mattman91]

first of all, im a looooong time reader of DBR and just now got around to put in my input on anything. Let me begin with saying, GO TO HELL CAROLINA. okay. Heres what i think will be the depth chart.

pg-irving
sg-smith
sg-dawkins
pf-mp2
c-mp1

bench

g curry
f kelly
f hairston
f felix
g thornton
f johnson
g peters
f zafirovski

first of all, we all agree irving and smith are sure starters and i put both the plums in because of how well they play together, and their experience. i chose dawkins over curry mostly because of the size factor, he will be more capable of guarding the "3". also curry coming off the bench gives us a legit pg to give ki rest ( i know curry is a natural 2 but is more capable of bringing the ball up the court than dre). I think kelly will definately hit the weight room this summer and will be ready to play the 4, and get ATLEAST 10 or 15 mpg. I think felix will give duke the athletic spark off the bench that will keep us from being alarmingly unathletic. i think thornton will not contribute immediately like irving, but will eventually be a solid player for us and maybe start one day. the walk ons are also under rated. sure they wont get meaningful pt, but they are great for practice. i believe casey and todd had some small d1 offers.

Im really looking forward to sharing my thoughts with some real, true duke fans and celebrating the 2010 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. this is all just the opinion of a 18 year old high school senior/ sandwich artist/ intern broadcaster/aspiring sports broadcaster (hopefully ill be partners with kyre irving on ESPN) :)

[Waynne]

I think it is Nolan, Seth, Kyrie, MP1 and MP2. It means playing three true guards, but who cares. Let other teams worry about matching up with us instead of worrying how we match up with them. The most interesting question to me is who sits if Kyle does come back. I think it is Seth, but honestly I could see it going any way.

But that's an awfully small perimeter- all 6'2" or shorter. At least one of these guys would have to guard a significantly bigger player in ACC play. For that reason i think Andre or maybe even Felix starts and Seth comes off the bench to provide instant offense.

[hedevil]

Let's assume Kyrie, Nolan, Dre and the Plumlees start. If Carrick doesn't develop as quickly as we would like to see happen, then who backs up Andre. If the answer is Seth, then why wouldn't Seth start from the beginning with Andre coming off the bench? I don't assume to know what's going to be the starting line up, but I do believe (IMO) when all is said and done, Curry will be in the starting line up with Nolan, Irving, and the Plumlees in most games going down the stretch.

I do believe that Dre will get many quality minutes (20-25min) subbing in for the 1-3 positions in most games. I just don't see size as being as much of a factor as some other posters, simply because Seth would most likely be coming in for Dre the majority of the time anyways, if Carrick isn't an immediate contributor. If so, then there we have it, the same small lineup with three guards on the court. We may as well have the best three out there (if Seth turns out to be as good as Nolan says).

[Newton_14]

Without Kyle I think there are 4 "locks' for starters. Kyrie, Nolan, Mason, Miles. Those 4 guys will start.

I could see Curry being the other starter. A lot of college teams play 3 guards. Not all but definately a lot. Against teams that do have true small forwards at the 3, K will have the option of going with Andre who would be a better offensive option, or he could go with Felix who is bigger than Andre, likely a better defensive option but likely not the scorer Andre is. He could also use Kelly at the 3 for a few minutes and possibly even Hairston or even Nolan. If Kyrie, Seth, and Nolan are all in together I think Nolan would guard the opposing teams 3.

The good thing is, even without Kyle, K will have an array of options at different sizes and skillsets at the 3. And no doubt in certain situations we will see 4 guards with 1 Big on the floor. Not often but certainly we will see it some.

I can''t wait for the season to start. Especially if Kyle comes back because if that happens K will have so many ways to beat a team it will be ridiculous. That is what makes next year so exciting to me. I cannot wait to see what K does with all this talent and what the identity of the team ends up being.

Finally to reiterate a couple of things from previous posters, 2 things. Kyrie Irving will get the ball from Day 1. He is not an overhyped player. This kid is the real deal and is just one of those special players. 2nd, don;t sleep on Miles Plumlee. As Bob Green noted, Miles improved mightily from his freshman to sophomore year, had a good year this year inspite of the midyear slump/funk, and will be the only true 5 on the roster. I believe he too will start from day 1 and has a good chance to be a beast down low.

Miles will play the 5, backed up by Mason and in a pinch Kelly. He won't play the 4 because there is no need for that and if he is in the game with any of the other bigs it would not make any sense to put Miles at the 4 and the other big in with him at the 5. There is just no valid reason to do that.

[RoyalBlue08]

But that's an awfully small perimeter- all 6'2" or shorter. At least one of these guys would have to guard a significantly bigger player in ACC play. For that reason i think Andre or maybe even Felix starts and Seth comes off the bench to provide instant offense.

I agree that Seth coming off the bench might make a bit more sense, but I think K is more of a "best five guys are going to start" kind of coach. My best guess is that Seth will be one of our best five players next year.

[BattierBattalion]

Defending the big 3s is not going to be a problem when the other team constantly turns the ball over. :D

Agree about the fact that Coach K will pursue a "let them adjust to us" approach, rather than the other way around.

[FireOgilvie]

I think we're going to see a lot of the 3 guard lineup, but I am also hopeful that we can go to a bigger lineup where Hairston plays the 3 with the Plumlees at the 4 and 5.

[-bdbd]

Have posted this in earkier strings: K almost always plays THE BEST 5 PLAYERS REGARDLESS OF POSITION. So if our best five include three guards, as I expect, then we'll start three guards. An important thing to remember here is that while there may be awkward defensive match-ups occasionally for us, those also represent bad matchups for the opponents too. Yes, Curry or Smith may have a challenge guarding a big 6'7" WF, but that same 6'7" guy will tire of chasing a 6'3" speedster around curls/picks all day on the other end, and probably not be inclined to spend too much time out along the 3-point arc defending there.

My prediction for starters:
PG - Irving
G - Nolan
G - Curry
F - Plumlee I
F - Plumlee II

I would expect to see a lot of Dawkins in this rotation (probably even with more minutes than some starters), especially if their "3" is a big scorer (as AD's size WILL help some) and Ryan becomes our only real interior backup, if he developes that way (we've had discussions elsewhere, but I worry w/o Singler, about our interior depth). Hairston and Felix aren't really INTERIOR defenders yet, and Felix certainly isn't a scorer yet. I am anxious to see Mr. Kelly put on some muscle/bulk over the summer AND develop an interior-oriented mentality (to bang with the big boys), otherwise K will be milking a lot of one-Plumlee-at-a-time minutes up front to ensure avoiding foul trouble and keep at least one fresh front-court guy deep into games.

At lesat in Nov-Dec. I don't see Felix, Hairston, Thornton getting huge minutes regularly. But there's always surprises with guys earning minutes in practice...

Should be fun to watch our mad chemist at work early on, trying out different combinations trying to find optimal TEAM outputs.

[Wander]

Since when has K played positions?

Well, the past few years we largely started or ended games with out-of-position or positionless lineups and those years resulted in early exits from the NCAA tournament. This year we switched to the traditional guard guard forward forward center and we won a national championship.

I know it's actually more complicated than that, but after this year I think we should admit that using a traditional lineup really does have a big purpose.

[Big Pappa]

Without Kyle I think there are 4 "locks' for starters. Kyrie, Nolan, Mason, Miles. Those 4 guys will start.



I totally agree with this. I have seen a lot of posts on here that have Seth starting over Kyrie and my only explanation for that is they must not have seen Kyrie play. The kid is absolutley great. Flat out. He can score, assist, handle and lead. There is a reason he is paired with Harrison and Sullinger all the time and a reason that he is on every all-star team there is.

If you still don't believe check out a quick two minutes of him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilk-pSwcKXg

Secondly, I see a lot of posts where people are sitting Miles. I also can't see that happening after how well he played with Mason this year. He is also a junior with 24 starts under his belt. I actually see Miles playing the second most minutes behind Nolan simply because of lack of experienced depth behind him.

[CDu]

Have posted this in earkier strings: K almost always plays THE BEST 5 PLAYERS REGARDLESS OF POSITION.

Except that this isn't really true. In the 2008 season, Coach K brought one of his 3-4 best players off the bench because he felt that bringing Scheyer off the bench (instead of Thomas) worked better for the dynamics of that team. In the 2007 season, Lance Thomas and started twice as often as Henderson because Coach K wanted a bigger, more interior-oriented body at the 4. I'm sure if we took the time, we could find countless other examples in which Coach K brought a better player off the bench for the benefit of the team. So simply being one of the five best players doesn't mean that a player will start.

Now, saying that Curry/Dawkins may or may not start is not looking at the bigger picture. In 2008, Scheyer was #3 on the team in minutes per game. In 2007, Henderson averaged 4.5 more minutes per game than Thomas, despite starting about half as many times. The starting lineup is a nice gauge for minutes, but it's not the be-all end-all either.

Further, with respect to Curry, there will be plenty of minutes for him regardless of whether or not he starts. The 1-2 guard spots will have ~90 minutes per game, if not a few more. That means that we could have two guys at 25mpg and a third at 30mpg, and still have ~10mpg for a fourth smaller guard. That still leaves 30mpg at the third wing spot. I would be more inclined to believe that we'd see the trio of Irving/Smith/Curry rotating at the 1-2 spots, with occasional time together as a three-guard lineup. And thus I'd expect to see the starting lineup have only two of them, even though I think they will all three be among the top 5 players for us next year.

[Indoor66]

Further, with respect to Curry, there will be plenty of minutes for him regardless of whether or not he starts. The 1-2 guard spots will have ~90 minutes per game, if not a few more. That means that we could have two guys at 25mpg and a third at 30mpg, and still have ~10mpg for a fourth smaller guard. That still leaves 30mpg at the third wing spot. I would be more inclined to believe that we'd see the trio of Irving/Smith/Curry rotating at the 1-2 spots, with occasional time together as a three-guard lineup. And thus I'd expect to see the starting lineup have only two of them, even though I think they will all three be among the top 5 players for us next year.

Interesting math in a 40 minute game!

[CDu]

Interesting math in a 40 minute game!

Well, hopefully you know what I meant. But to be safe, I'll clarify: the guys you'd think of as playing the 1/2 (i.e., Irving, Smith, Curry) will have around 90 minutes (out of the 120 minutes at the guard/wing spots). The guys that play the 2/3 or 3 will take the other minutes at the wing. Sorry for any lack of clarity.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Is our second team. For the sake of this argument, I'm assuming that Andre starts and Kyle leaves (which will make more sense once you see the practice line-up)

1: Kyrie vs Tyler
2: Nolan vs Seth
3: Andre vs Carrick
4: Mason vs Ryan
5: Miles vs Josh

The only player playing out of position is Hairston, but as many think of him as Singler light, will make sense of him playing the 5 his freshman year.

That second team is nasty! It could easily be the starting line-up of a middle-of-the-pack ACC team! Wa-wa-we-wa...

Because we have 3 ready players at the 1/2 position, and because Andre has great size for the 3, and because a ridiculous defender in Carrick will be guarding Andre, I really see Andre taking the 3 next year.

[CDu]

Is our second team. For the sake of this argument, I'm assuming that Andre starts and Kyle leaves (which will make more sense once you see the practice line-up)

1: Kyrie vs Tyler
2: Nolan vs Seth
3: Andre vs Carrick
4: Mason vs Ryan
5: Miles vs Josh

The only player playing out of position is Hairston, but as many think of him as Singler light, will make sense of him playing the 5 his freshman year.

That second team is nasty! It could easily be the starting line-up of a middle-of-the-pack ACC team! Wa-wa-we-wa...

Because we have 3 ready players at the 1/2 position, and because Andre has great size for the 3, and because a ridiculous defender in Carrick will be guarding Andre, I really see Andre taking the 3 next year.

I'd flip Kelly and Hairston, as Kelly is bigger and more experienced than Hairston. And from the sounds of it, Hairston is more of the 3/4 mold. Of the two, I'd think Kelly is the one more likely to play minutes at the 5 next year (of course, I don't think either will actually play much at the 5).

But I agree with the overall point. One of the most impressive things about this year's team is how well we did even without being able to run a 5-on-5 practice entirely comprised of major D-1 level players. I don't mean this to be in any way a slap at Davidson, Peters, Johnson, et al. Those guys obviously do a lot for the team. But at some point, it has to help to go up against legit major conference talent in practice (on both ends of the floor - I have no doubt that Davidson et al can give D-1 caliber effort on defense). We'll be able to do that. Hopefully that will help offset the loss of experience.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'd flip Kelly and Hairston, as Kelly is bigger and more experienced than Hairston. And from the sounds of it, Hairston is more of the 3/4 mold. Of the two, I'd think Kelly is the one more likely to play minutes at the 5 next year (of course, I don't think either will actually play much at the 5).

While I agree with you that Hairston is definitely a 3/4 (Singler style) and neither Kelly nor Josh will play the 5 (Miles and Mason will take hold of that), I think Kelly's 3-pt shooting, coupled with his lack of strength and ability to pass well to the post, will make him a better fit for the 4. Hairston is definitely more of a 4 as well, but I just feel that K would like to prioritize Kelly's more "natural" position as a sophomore than Josh's position as a freshman. Plus, I think Kelly, and not Hairston, will be the first big man off the bench and sub in as a 4. Not sure if that made sense on paper, but it made sense in my head.

[Fish80]

While this is a very silly exercise to speculate who will start, it's also great fun and I can't resist jumping in any longer.

Kyrie
Nolan
Ryan / Andre (insert Kyle if he comes back)
Mason
Miles

Ryan and Andre will alternate starting at the 3 depending on match-ups and who's playing better. Ryan will be playing at the 3, 4, and sometimes the 5. See the Ryan thread for some good posts about Ryan playing the 3. Mason and Ryan playing together gives us incredible passing and creates nightmare match-ups.

Seth will get starters minutes.

If the newbies develop as hoped, this team may be our deepest team in a long long time.

[CDu]

While I agree with you that Hairston is definitely a 3/4 (Singler style) and neither Kelly nor Josh will play the 5 (Miles and Mason will take hold of that), I think Kelly's 3-pt shooting, coupled with his lack of strength and ability to pass well to the post, will make him a better fit for the 4. Hairston is definitely more of a 4 as well, but I just feel that K would like to prioritize Kelly's more "natural" position as a sophomore than Josh's position as a freshman. Plus, I think Kelly, and not Hairston, will be the first big man off the bench and sub in as a 4. Not sure if that made sense on paper, but it made sense in my head.

I think the difference we have lies in the fact that I'm defining positions based on whom the player would defend rather than their role on offense. If the two were on the floor together, I'd anticipate that Kelly would guard the bigger player. That's why I said switch. Defensively, if the two are paired, Kelly would be the five.

I agree that Kelly's offensive game is that of a face-up 4. And I completely agree that I'd think Kelly would play that role in practice as well. But in terms of defining positions, I don't consider the role on offense.

[InSpades]

One of the most impressive things about this year's team is how well we did even without being able to run a 5-on-5 practice entirely comprised of major D-1 level players.

We could have run 5 on 5 last year with basically 1 guy playing "out of position". Jon-Nolan-Kyle-Lance-Zoubs vs. Seth-Andre-Ryan-Mason-Miles. Those lineups actually match up pretty well size-wise.

[Biscuit King]

Seth Curry is going to be a monster next year. I have a hard time seeing him come off the bench, but even if he does, he'll play a lot of minutes and score a lot of points.

[CDu]

We could have run 5 on 5 last year with basically 1 guy playing "out of position". Jon-Nolan-Kyle-Lance-Zoubs vs. Seth-Andre-Ryan-Mason-Miles. Those lineups actually match up pretty well size-wise.

That's true. Really, the benefit then becomes that we have a true 3 on the Blue Team rather than Kelly.

[Saratoga2]

The height and weight of players can be misleading at times because often times the numbers are not accurate. I do think there is some validity to matching size to position, as long as athletic ability and experience is accounted for.

Looking at this years roster and such sources as Scout.com I just put it out there for discussion.

Player----------Height--------Weight----------Athletic Ability
Nolan Smith---6'2"------------185--------------Superior
Seth Curry------6'1"------------175--------------Unknown but expected as good
Andre Dawkins-6'4"------------190-------------- Very Good
Mason Plumlee-6'10"----------230---------------Superior
Miles Plumlee---6'10"----------240---------------Very Good
Ryan Kelly-------6'10"----------220---------------Good
Kyle Singler-----6'8"------------230---------------Very Good

Carrick Felix-----6'6"------------195--------------Superior
Josh Hairston---6'8"-------------223--------------Unknown but expected as good
Tyler Thornton--6'21/2"---------180--------------Unknown but expected as good
Kyrie Irving------6'1"-------------165--------------Superior from McDonalds game

Clearly the younger players could have added some height and possibly more weight and we also expect Kelly to add 10 pounds over the off season, so the numbers are likely to see some change.

From these, I would agree with those who thing Smith, Curry,Irving and Thornton will mainly share the PG/SG positions with perhaps a small amount of the WF while the Plumlees,Kelly and Hairston will mainly share the PF/C positions. If Singler is not on the team, which is the subject of this string, then I believe that Dawkins and Felix are the most likely take the majority of the WF minutes.

[-bdbd]

Have posted this in earkier strings: K almost always plays THE BEST 5 PLAYERS REGARDLESS OF POSITION. So if our best five include three guards, as I expect, then we'll start three guards. An important thing to remember here is that while there may be awkward defensive match-ups occasionally for us, those also represent bad matchups for the opponents too.


Except that this isn't really true. In the 2008 season, Coach K brought one of his 3-4 best players off the bench because he felt that bringing Scheyer off the bench (instead of Thomas) worked better for the dynamics of that team. In the 2007 season, Lance Thomas and started twice as often as Henderson because Coach K wanted a bigger, more interior-oriented body at the 4. I'm sure if we took the time, we could find countless other examples in which Coach K brought a better player off the bench for the benefit of the team. So simply being one of the five best players doesn't mean that a player will start.

Now, saying that Curry/Dawkins may or may not start is not looking at the bigger picture. In 2008, Scheyer was #3 on the team in minutes per game. In 2007, Henderson averaged 4.5 more minutes per game than Thomas, despite starting about half as many times. The starting lineup is a nice gauge for minutes, but it's not the be-all end-all either.

Further, with respect to Curry, there will be plenty of minutes for him regardless of whether or not he starts. The 1-2 guard spots will have ~90 minutes per game, if not a few more. That means that we could have two guys at 25mpg and a third at 30mpg, and still have ~10mpg for a fourth smaller guard. That still leaves 30mpg at the third wing spot. I would be more inclined to believe that we'd see the trio of Irving/Smith/Curry rotating at the 1-2 spots, with occasional time together as a three-guard lineup. And thus I'd expect to see the starting lineup have only two of them, even though I think they will all three be among the top 5 players for us next year.

Hey CDu - to be fair I did say almost always K plays his best 5. Obviously wouldn't have the "best 5" in there if it didn't include a ball handler or at least one big/rebounder. I have seen K quoted more than once at least SAYING that the best 5 (presumably in practice) will play. But as you point out, on some occasions a "top-5" player is more effective off of the bench. But I really think some folks here are doing an injustice to Curry who, by all accounts, should be one of our best five. If that is indeed the case, then I don't see him giving way in the starting line-up vs. first-year player Felix. Don't forget, SC's already had a full year to practice with the team and learn K's system, etc.

I strongly agree that non-starters will almost certainly average more minutes than starters in some cases. I think "starter" status just gives us a context for this discussion, whereas MOST of these names we're throwing around - MP1 & 2, KI, NS, SC, AD, RK, and possibly Felix will all average over or around 20 minutes per game. Lastly, the minutes mix will certainly change over the course of the year, as players develop, learn the system, have injuries and, gasp, occasionally regress.

This, to me, is one of the really fun things about college ball -- the ever-changing mix of players and skills.


:rolleyes::D:cool:

[Cockabeau]

Carrick Felix will be a HUGE factor if KS leaves.

Fact #1 K loves pressure man-to-man defense.
Fact #2 Putting Carrick into the lineup allows K to employ pressure Man-to-man defense.

Carrick will play atleast 20 MPG, Guaranteed if K S doesnt come back

[Big Pappa]

Player----------Height--------Weight----------Athletic Ability
Nolan Smith---6'2"------------185--------------Superior
Seth Curry------6'1"------------175--------------Unknown but expected as good
Andre Dawkins-6'4"------------190-------------- Very Good
Mason Plumlee-6'10"----------230---------------Superior
Miles Plumlee---6'10"----------240---------------Very Good
Ryan Kelly-------6'10"----------220---------------Good
Kyle Singler-----6'8"------------230---------------Very Good

Carrick Felix-----6'6"------------195--------------Superior
Josh Hairston---6'8"-------------223--------------Unknown but expected as good
Tyler Thornton--6'21/2"---------180--------------Unknown but expected as good
Kyrie Irving------6'1"-------------165--------------Superior from McDonalds game



Everything I have seen has Kyrie listed at 6'2" after his measurements at the all-star games.

[hedevil]

I see Felix getting somewhere around 10 min per game (tops). I can't help but to think of the adjustment Kelly, Mason and Dre have had to make as freshman. So much depends on the development of the big men. If the Plumlees, Kelly, and Hairston cannot contribute significant points, then I don't see Felix playing much at all. If this team is susceptible to scoring droughts at times, it will be crucial to have a third scoring threat on the floor. Most likely Curry and Dre.

I still see Curry starting at the 3. He is more experienced than Dre. However (obviously), if Dre proves to be a more effective scorer then switch that.

[Jderf]

I have seen K quoted more than once at least SAYING that the best 5 (presumably in practice) will play. But as you point out, on some occasions a "top-5" player is more effective off of the bench.

I think there is confusion here stemming from the fact that the "best 5" could be interpreted as the five best individual players, OR the collection of five players which players best together as a unit. I think, if you asked K, he would almost certainly say he prefers the second. This has the unfortunate side-effect that sometimes one of the top 5 comes off the bench.

[Jderf]

Carrick Felix will be a HUGE factor if KS leaves.

Fact #1 K loves pressure man-to-man defense.
Fact #2 Putting Carrick into the lineup allows K to employ pressure Man-to-man defense.

Carrick will play atleast 20 MPG, Guaranteed if K S doesnt come back

I like your syllogistic logic. This could be even more true if our other players show enough of a knack for offense that would allow us to have one defense-oriented player who's main priority is setting screens in the half-court and getting just the occasional touch (a la Lance). Any offense we see from Carrick is likely to be a bonus, because it seems K brought him in for pure defence. So if Carrick does squeeze into the starting lineup, it will be for two reasons: a) his defense will need to be superb, and b) Kyrie, Nolan, and the Plumlees show that they don't really need a fifth scorer. From what people are saying, this sounds like a perfectly possible scenario. If Carrick does show an offense flair, it only helps his chances, but that wont be the main reason he slides into the lineup.

[hedevil]

Obviously this is all just speculation and none of us know what lineups we'll see. I just have a hard time seeing where the baskets come from with a lineup of Irving, Smith, Felix, and the Plumlees. I guess I've gotten too accustomed to seeing three perimeter players on the court at the same time. Now if Kelly can become the factor we're all hoping for, I guess I could see that group if Kelly is put in at the 4 due to the fact that he has range and could spread the defense. Other than that I would much rather see KI, NS, Curry or Dre with two bigs.

[Jderf]

Obviously this is all just speculation and none of us know what lineups we'll see. I just have a hard time seeing where the baskets come from with a lineup of Irving, Smith, Felix, and the Plumlees.

Right, which is why I said Felix could start only if others showed that they could account for the offence. Who knows, maybe with Kyrie in, we'll be far better at feeding the ball into the post for the Plumlees to put it away, maybe not. We'll have to wait and see.

[hedevil]

Agreed.

[clg003]

Wow, it amazes me how you guys think so little of Seth. Seth averaged 25 points a game against ACC competition when he was a freshman 2 years ago. This guy will be the best scoring guard in the ACC much less on the team. Yeah he is undersized but he has the same game as his brother who was also undersized. Seth will start and could very well start at the 1 because that's what he is going to play in the NBA. If Kyrie can beat him out for the 1 then Smith will start at the 3. Dawkins will not play in front of Seth, no way, no how. Dawkins will be the 4th guard in a 3 guard offense.

[hedevil]

Looking back on the thread, I don't see where anyone is thinking little of Seth. I for one have him in the starting lineup, but I don't assume to know what K will do. I don't think others' opinions of believing Dre might start over Seth are negative towards Seth. Most of those same posters believe Curry will have starters' minutes coming off the bench and would still be productive. That said, once again, IMO Seth starts. Who knows?

[Saratoga2]

Josh may also be getting quite a few minutes PT. His size and game remind me of how Lance Thomas played, except Josh is coming in with more of a mid-range offensive game than Thomas had, especially early on. Josh is a determined defender like Thomas and we will have to see where he fits. It could be at the 4 or the 3. Coached K liked enough of what he saw in Josh to offer. His father is a state trooper and has probably instilled a lot of discipline in his son. Coach K always looks to recruit kids coming from good families.

[mattman91]

Josh may also be getting quite a few minutes PT. His size and game remind me of how Lance Thomas played, except Josh is coming in with more of a mid-range offensive game than Thomas had, especially early on. Josh is a determined defender like Thomas and we will have to see where he fits. It could be at the 4 or the 3. Coached K liked enough of what he saw in Josh to offer. His father is a state trooper and has probably instilled a lot of discipline in his son. Coach K always looks to recruit kids coming from good families.

his dad also played football at App State... so he pobably isnt alarmingly unathletic:D

[licc85]

if you compare high school videos of josh and lance, you will see that josh has way more lift and finishes above the rim much more consistently. He is definitely the superior athlete

[dball]

I'd flip Kelly and Hairston, as Kelly is bigger and more experienced than Hairston. And from the sounds of it, Hairston is more of the 3/4 mold. Of the two, I'd think Kelly is the one more likely to play minutes at the 5 next year (of course, I don't think either will actually play much at the 5).

But I agree with the overall point. One of the most impressive things about this year's team is how well we did even without being able to run a 5-on-5 practice entirely comprised of major D-1 level players. I don't mean this to be in any way a slap at Davidson, Peters, Johnson, et al. Those guys obviously do a lot for the team. But at some point, it has to help to go up against legit major conference talent in practice (on both ends of the floor - I have no doubt that Davidson et al can give D-1 caliber effort on defense). We'll be able to do that. Hopefully that will help offset the loss of experience.

Hey, I realize we're just talkin' 'bout practice, but doesn't the team spend some significant amount of time practicing potential game situations. During that time this past year, I believe the blue team was: Davidson, Peters, Kelly, Johnson and Curry simulating opposing team with other 8 most likely to play guys 'practicing' how Duke would play in the game?

Curry would lead the blue squad since he can't play in the games. Kelly would be part as the 9th guy off the bench (in order to have five).

Just saying that when Coach K says how much the blue team contributes, I think he's actually pointing to this part of the practice. (i.e. he really believes it)

[hedevil]

Are you talking about practice? Man, it's practice. Can't believe you're talking about practice. Practice? Man it's practice!


I'm sorry, I couldn't contain myself. Just bringing a little immaturity.:D

[jv001]

Wow, it amazes me how you guys think so little of Seth. Seth averaged 25 points a game against ACC competition when he was a freshman 2 years ago. This guy will be the best scoring guard in the ACC much less on the team. Yeah he is undersized but he has the same game as his brother who was also undersized. Seth will start and could very well start at the 1 because that's what he is going to play in the NBA. If Kyrie can beat him out for the 1 then Smith will start at the 3. Dawkins will not play in front of Seth, no way, no how. Dawkins will be the 4th guard in a 3 guard offense.

Defense and handle will probably decide who starts if it comes down to Curry vs. Dawkins. At this point in time I don't know who the superior defender is. Practice will determine that. Right now my main concern is; does Kyle return for his senior season? Go Duke!

[Cockabeau]

Right, which is why I said Felix could start only if others showed that they could account for the offence. Who knows, maybe with Kyrie in, we'll be far better at feeding the ball into the post for the Plumlees to put it away, maybe not. We'll have to wait and see.

You got the lineup all wrong.
It will be:
KI
Smith
Curry
Felix
Plumlee

[CDu]

You got the lineup all wrong.
It will be:
KI
Smith
Curry
Felix
Plumlee

I'll be honest. I find that lineup highly unlikely. I don't see us going with that small a starting lineup. We may very well start all three small guards (though I would suspect against it). But I really don't see us starting 3 small guards AND going with an undersized guy at the 4.

[ACCBBallFan]

The height and weight of players can be misleading at times because often times the numbers are not accurate. I do think there is some validity to matching size to position, as long as athletic ability and experience is accounted for.

Looking at this years roster and such sources as Scout.com I just put it out there for discussion.

Player----------Height--------Weight----------Athletic Ability
Nolan Smith---6'2"------------185--------------Superior
Seth Curry------6'1"------------175--------------Unknown but expected as good
Andre Dawkins-6'4"------------190-------------- Very Good
Mason Plumlee-6'10"----------230---------------Superior
Miles Plumlee---6'10"----------240---------------Very Good
Ryan Kelly-------6'10"----------220---------------Good
Kyle Singler-----6'8"------------230---------------Very Good

Carrick Felix-----6'6"------------195--------------Superior
Josh Hairston---6'8"-------------223--------------Unknown but expected as good
Tyler Thornton--6'21/2"---------180--------------Unknown but expected as good
Kyrie Irving------6'1"-------------165--------------Superior from McDonalds game

Clearly the younger players could have added some height and possibly more weight and we also expect Kelly to add 10 pounds over the off season, so the numbers are likely to see some change.

From these, I would agree with those who thing Smith, Curry,Irving and Thornton will mainly share the PG/SG positions with perhaps a small amount of the WF while the Plumlees,Kelly and Hairston will mainly share the PF/C positions. If Singler is not on the team, which is the subject of this string, then I believe that Dawkins and Felix are the most likely take the majority of the WF minutes.

Your logic looks sound to me plus other than Irving, I would give the PT edge to the guys who have been in the system a year or more over the new guys Thornton, Felix and Hairston who over their career will assume bigger roles as happened to Miles this year and will happen to Ryan and Dre and Mason next year.

Were it not for the early season injury, Mason perhaps would have played an even bigger role in his first year.

On the question of practice the four bigs will rotate to give one another difference looks to practice against, as well as time at both PF and C.

Kyrie Iriving vs. Tyler Thornton

Nolan Smnith vs. Seth Curry

Andre Dawkins vs. Carrick Felix

Ryan Kelly vs Josh Thornton

Miles Plumlee vs. Mason Plumlee

with Thornton probably getting the least PT of these 10 since Seth Curry or Nolan Smith could backup Kyrie in games.

Without Kyle, all four bigs would get as much PT as their PF's allow.

With Kyle, Felix and Thornton may be the other ones whose PT slips unless they prove to be more Lance like defensively than anybody besides Kyle.

[Newton_14]

I'll be honest. I find that lineup highly unlikely. I don't see us going with that small a starting lineup. We may very well start all three small guards (though I would suspect against it). But I really don't see us starting 3 small guards AND going with an undersized guy at the 4.

Agree. If there is going to be a surprise at the 4 spot with the other four guys the OP listed I would say Hairston at the 4 with that line up vs Felix. We are all speculating of course as we have no idea how ready Felix or Hairston will be.

But I am sticking with these 4 guys (Irving, Smith, MP1, MP2) with Singler if he stays or "fill in the blank" if Singler goes...

I think the wildcard if Singler goes will be at the small forward 3 spot rather than the power forward 4 spot. I just don't see anyone keeping either Plumlee out of the starting line up.

[Osiagledknarf]

I see Dawkins starting at that spot over Curry because he is longer, more athletic and has the ability with more bulk to be a force on both ends of the floor.. I like Curry as a backup to Smith and Irving this year and someone who will be put in at times with Irving and Smith, and someone who will be Kyrie's backup if Singler goes pro

I like this as our roster in this order:

Irving/Curry/Thronton
Smith/Curry/ Dawkins
Dawkins/Felix/Hairston
Miles/Kelly/Hairston
Mason/Kelly

I like Felix to play more then people think he will.. He is an extremely athletic player and prides himself on the defensive end.. I think he will get more of a look here and be able to shut down opposing 3's i.e the one at UNC..

Kelly I see as a major part of the bench. He needs to be able to bulk up and get griddy on the defensive glass.. We all know that he has some great offensive skills and I look forward to him being able to showcase them next year. I expect him to be the 6th/7th man off the bench...

[CDu]

Agree. If there is going to be a surprise at the 4 spot with the other four guys the OP listed I would say Hairston at the 4 with that line up vs Felix. We are all speculating of course as we have no idea how ready Felix or Hairston will be.

But I am sticking with these 4 guys (Irving, Smith, MP1, MP2) with Singler if he stays or "fill in the blank" if Singler goes...

I think the wildcard if Singler goes will be at the small forward 3 spot rather than the power forward 4 spot. I just don't see anyone keeping either Plumlee out of the starting line up.

I agree. I think experience (and talent) will mean that the Plumlees and Smith start. From the sounds of it, talent will mean that Irving starts. The only remaining spot I see is, as you said, at the 3. If Singler returns, obviously the decision is easy. If not, it could be any of Curry, Dawkins, Felix, and Hairston. My money would be on one of Curry or Dawkins, with my gut saying Dawkins (with Curry getting starter's minutes of course).

[Newton_14]

I see Dawkins starting at that spot over Curry because he is longer, more athletic and has the ability with more bulk to be a force on both ends of the floor.. I like Curry as a backup to Smith and Irving this year and someone who will be put in at times with Irving and Smith, and someone who will be Kyrie's backup if Singler goes pro

I like this as our roster in this order:

Irving/Curry/Thronton
Smith/Curry/ Dawkins
Dawkins/Felix/Hairston
Miles/Kelly/Hairston
Mason/Kelly

I like Felix to play more then people think he will.. He is an extremely athletic player and prides himself on the defensive end.. I think he will get more of a look here and be able to shut down opposing 3's i.e the one at UNC..

Kelly I see as a major part of the bench. He needs to be able to bulk up and get griddy on the defensive glass.. We all know that he has some great offensive skills and I look forward to him being able to showcase them next year. I expect him to be the 6th/7th man off the bench...

I agree with most of this. Felix may be more ready than we think. With the exception of Kyrie who I expect to be a starter from day 1, and Seth who we know will play a lot whether he starts or not, of the rest of the new guys it is reasonable Felix is the most ready given his experience and age.

The only grievance I have with your outlook is Miles at the 4. Just don't see that happening. Miles is the only true 5 we have. We have lots of 4's however, and when Mason and Miles are in together, Miles will play the 5 just like this year.

[CDu]

I like this as our roster in this order:

Irving/Curry/Thronton
Smith/Curry/ Dawkins
Dawkins/Felix/Hairston
Miles/Kelly/Hairston
Mason/Kelly

The only thing I'd disagree on is your 4/5 depth chart.

I'd say that the the 4s will be:
Mason/Kelly/Hairston (no certainty on the order of Kelly/Hairston, though I think Kelly will have the edge)

For the 5s, I'd say this:
Miles/Mason/Kelly

Miles has been playing the 5 this year with Mason playing the 4. I don't see why that'd change next year. I think that for the majority of the time Miles is not in the game, Mason will play the 5. Any minutes in which the Plumlees are both out, I'd say that Kelly will play the 5.

[Osiagledknarf]

The only thing I'd disagree on is your 4/5 depth chart.

I'd say that the the 4s will be:
Mason/Kelly/Hairston (no certainty on the order of Kelly/Hairston, though I think Kelly will have the edge)

For the 5s, I'd say this:
Miles/Mason/Kelly

Miles has been playing the 5 this year with Mason playing the 4. I don't see why that'd change next year. I think that for the majority of the time Miles is not in the game, Mason will play the 5. Any minutes in which the Plumlees are both out, I'd say that Kelly will play the 5.

Yeah I got those two mixed up.. However, I think Mason can play both the 4 and 5.. He has the size and athletic ability will allow him to do that at times when Miles is out or in foul trouble..

I think Kelly as long as he comes into camp in shape and comes in with more bulk, I expect him to be the backup 4 and 5 over Hairston... I think he has the ability to make an impact next season off the bench and give us some really really good production...

Hairston is a good good young prospect and will have his turn, but barring injury or ineffectiveness I don't really expect it to be this year..

[hedevil]

In my opinion, I think we might see quite a bit of Joshua H this year in certain games. I think he and obviously Kelly will back the 4 and 5 positions. There always seems to be those games where the refs call touch fouls against the devils (sometimes tightly against both teams), so I can see 4 or 5 games where Joshua plays somewhat significant minutes due to the Plumlees being in foul trouble. However in games being called tightly I'd like to see if coach K backs up Plumlee 1 with Plumlee 2 at the five. This would allow a Plumlee to be on the court at all times with either Kelly or Hairston. Other than that, I think the Plumlees play together most of the time.

[ACCBBallFan]

In my opinion, I think we might see quite a bit of Joshua H this year in certain games. I think he and obviously Kelly will back the 4 and 5 positions. There always seems to be those games where the refs call touch fouls against the devils (sometimes tightly against both teams), so I can see 4 or 5 games where Joshua plays somewhat significant minutes due to the Plumlees being in foul trouble. However in games being called tightly I'd like to see if coach K backs up Plumlee 1 with Plumlee 2 at the five. This would allow a Plumlee to be on the court at all times with either Kelly or Hairston. Other than that, I think the Plumlees play together most of the time.

Exactly. Even if Josh is the fourth option, both Plumlees and Kelly have a tendency to foul a lot which means Josh will get his munutes too unless Kyle returns and spends half his time at PF and half at WF.

[Indoor66]

Exactly. Even if Josh is the fourth option, both Plumlees and Kelly have a tendency to foul a lot which means Josh will get his munutes too unless Kyle returns and spends half his time at PF and half at WF.

You project this year's performance on next year. All three should have improved physical attributes, improved footwork and better defensive habits. It tends to be part of growing up with good coaching.

[Big Pappa]

I just posted this on the "Non-Dukies in the draft" thread but I think it is applicable here as well.

Just an interesting fact, now that Monroe has declared, every player in Chad Ford's Top 100 for the draft has now declared, except one: Mason Plumlee. Mason is currently ranked 19th on Chad's Big Board for the upcoming draft.

I know that there is no chance that Mason leaves but it is nice to see that others can see his incredible potential. I can easily see Mason on the All-ACC team next year. He actually reminds me a lot of Monroe, the way he can jump out of the gym, hit the mid-range shot, and the way he sees the court. I can't wait to see Coach K unleash him next year.

[Bo_Spice]

I just posted this on the "Non-Dukies in the draft" thread but I think it is applicable here as well.

Just an interesting fact, now that Monroe has declared, every player in Chad Ford's Top 100 for the draft has now declared, except one: Mason Plumlee. Mason is currently ranked 19th on Chad's Big Board for the upcoming draft.

I know that there is no chance that Mason leaves but it is nice to see that others can see his incredible potential. I can easily see Mason on the All-ACC team next year. He actually reminds me a lot of Monroe, the way he can jump out of the gym, hit the mid-range shot, and the way he sees the court. I can't wait to see Coach K unleash him next year.

Every player in the top 100 has declared? Has Kyle declared?

[Osiagledknarf]

Every player in the top 100 has declared? Has Kyle declared?

Not as of yet... The deadline to commit to the NBA draft is April 28th.. So we will know by then if he will stay or go.. Then if he happens to go, he has until early ( the date is escaping me right now) to leave the draft such as what Lawson and Ellington did for UNC in 2008..

[MChambers]

Not as of yet... The deadline to commit to the NBA draft is April 28th.. So we will know by then if he will stay or go.. Then if he happens to go, he has until early ( the date is escaping me right now) to leave the draft such as what Lawson and Ellington did for UNC in 2008..

The deadline to declare is April 25, not 28. The date to withdraw is May 8.

[CDu]

Every player in the top 100 has declared? Has Kyle declared?

I believe he or she meant to say that everyone ahead of Singler in the top-100 list has declared except for Plumlee.

[CDu]

Not as of yet... The deadline to commit to the NBA draft is April 28th.. So we will know by then if he will stay or go.. Then if he happens to go, he has until early ( the date is escaping me right now) to leave the draft such as what Lawson and Ellington did for UNC in 2008..

No, he has until April 25. So we'll know within the next week. And he's already said that if he does declare, he's going. He's not testing the waters. So the May 8 deadline is irrelevant for him. So a week from now, we should know for sure whether or not Singler will be returning to Duke or going pro.

[cbarry]

STRONG gut feeling Kyle's gone. No way on this green Earth he comes back. The threat of NBA strike, and going out on a winning note mean Kyle is gone. I WISH WISH WISH he would come back, but with the incoming guys, including transfer Felix, it appears that we have planned on Kyle leaving. How great would it be to have Kyle back next year, but it ain't gonna happen folks
No, he has until April 25. So we'll know within the next week. And he's already said that if he does declare, he's going. He's not testing the waters. So the May 8 deadline is irrelevant for him. So a week from now, we should know for sure whether or not Singler will be returning to Duke or going pro.

[Big Pappa]

I believe he or she meant to say that everyone ahead of Singler in the top-100 list has declared except for Plumlee.

Yes that is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

And Big Pappa is a he, just for future reference :D

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

And Big Pappa is a he, just for future reference :D

hahaha that and your profile picture should be enough, but I guess not.

[CDu]

Yes that is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

And Big Pappa is a he, just for future reference :D

Sorry about that. I just always like to err on the side of caution. Duly noted for the future, though.

[MarkD83]

Can we start this thread again with a new title.

[pfrduke]

Well all this is pretty much irrelevant now, eh? :D:D:D:D

[CLW]

Well all this is pretty much irrelevant now, eh? :D:D:D:D

Awaits the starting lineup thread now with Singler and Smith providing senior leadership this team is going to be FUN to watch next year.

Assuming these kids continue to work and don't gloat/get a big head they could be SPECIAL next year.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Well this thread should be closed.....

[mph]

STRONG gut feeling Kyle's gone. No way on this green Earth he comes back. The threat of NBA strike, and going out on a winning note mean Kyle is gone. I WISH WISH WISH he would come back, but with the incoming guys, including transfer Felix, it appears that we have planned on Kyle leaving. How great would it be to have Kyle back next year, but it ain't gonna happen folks

:eek:

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

What was this guy smoking? ^

[dukeblue225]

Can officially end this talk, thank god.

[Newton_14]

STRONG gut feeling Kyle's gone. No way on this green Earth he comes back. The threat of NBA strike, and going out on a winning note mean Kyle is gone. I WISH WISH WISH he would come back, but with the incoming guys, including transfer Felix, it appears that we have planned on Kyle leaving. How great would it be to have Kyle back next year, but it ain't gonna happen folks

I guess the Earth turned blue or that ol STRONG gut of yours lied to you....:p;)