Maryland students allegedly beaten by police after Duke game [Archive]

BlueDevilBaby

04-13-2010, 10:45 AM

I would not say allegedly after seeing the video on GMA this morning. Guy was skipping down the sidewalk away from the fray when mounted policmen got in his way. He backed up, never touching them or the horses, and all of a sudden was slammed into the wall then the ground by other policemen who beat him up. Police said he hit them and the horses - clearly not from the video. But who knows what the guy was doing beforehand. Even though he is a MD fan, I feel bad for him. PG county cops do not have a good reputation when it comes to this sort of thing.

hedevil

04-13-2010, 11:09 AM

Bad humor on my part, but did they say Duke got beat? Ouch!

Biscuit King

04-13-2010, 11:15 AM

Can we just trade Maryland to the Big East in return for Villanova and bring an end to our long, regional nightmare?

Devil07

04-13-2010, 11:21 AM

Can we just trade Maryland to the Big East in return for Villanova and bring an end to our long, regional nightmare?

Interesting choice of words, because as someone who was in Boston last year, I can assure you that Villanova was very much the source of a long, Regional nightmare for us...

roywhite

04-13-2010, 11:22 AM

Can we just trade Maryland to the Big East in return for Villanova and bring an end to our long, regional nightmare?

The Big10/11 is serious about expansion and shopping for teams. Some talk about inviting MD.

moonpie23

04-13-2010, 11:23 AM

wow...that video is a lawyer's pie in the sky.....

jdj4duke

04-13-2010, 11:29 AM

I will be interested in ascertaining how the Terrapin-centric, DC media finds ways to blame this on Duke.
:D

It is Duke's fault since they lost the game. Maryland fans only riot after victories.

Jderf

04-13-2010, 11:55 AM

Maryland fans only riot after victories.

If only that were true...

killerleft

04-13-2010, 12:02 PM

Isn't rioting by Terp fans after a big win a protected right?

Yes, but the Policemen were Maryland fans, also. This means they could riot, too.

blazindw

04-13-2010, 12:03 PM

I will be interested in ascertaining how the Terrapin-centric, DC media finds ways to blame this on Duke.
:D

One of my friends (a Maryland fan) posted: "So even the PG County Cops are Duke fans..."

DoubleDuke Dad

04-13-2010, 12:09 PM

It is Duke's fault since they lost the game. Maryland fans only riot after victories.

Au contraire, Maryland students riot whether they win or lose.

That sentiment has rung true, for instance, with some at the University of Maryland, where security officers have quelled sports-related rioting at least three times in as many years. Rioting there has become such a part of fandom that more than 1,000 freshmen and sophomores last year swarmed at their first opportunity to damage property after a major basketball loss, says Mary Schneidau, a junior who edits the opinion page of the campus newspaper.
"There's definitely something institutional about it," Schneidau says. "They were saying, 'We're freshmen and sophomores. This is our chance to riot. That's what we do at Maryland.' They were ready to go," but police dispersed the crowd before trouble could begin.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-11-01-riot_x.htm

jdj4duke

04-13-2010, 12:29 PM

Au contraire, Maryland students riot whether they win or lose.

Sarcasm is not always evident in print and that was the implication in my post; they riot all the time, win or lose. Interesting to get the outside validation from the reference in your post-

weezie

04-13-2010, 12:33 PM

Next time, win or lose, the police should just ready the fire hoses and clean their students up a bit.
Dopes.

miramar

04-13-2010, 12:50 PM

It is Duke's fault since they lost the game. Maryland fans only riot after victories.

Doug Gottlieb is already claiming it was caused by the Krzyzewski effect, since he is on police officials about letting the officers play and for whatever reason, whether it’s Krzyzewski or Duke, because he’s the coach of team USA, whatever it is, his riding the official seems to have a greater effect.

Gottlieb may have a point. After all, how many fouls were called on the cops that evening?

OldPhiKap

04-13-2010, 12:52 PM

"Would you like an assault to go with your batteries?"

GoingFor#5

04-13-2010, 01:09 PM

The Big10/11 is serious about expansion and shopping for teams. Some talk about inviting MD.

Butler would be a perfect fit there. I'm not sure what the requirements for transferring conferences are, but basketball-wise they fit in great.

OldPhiKap

04-13-2010, 01:10 PM

Butler would be a perfect fit there. I'm not sure what the requirements for transferring conferences are, but basketball-wise they fit in great.

Given our experience, my guess is that football is the driving force of any potential change.

MChambers

04-13-2010, 01:24 PM

The Big10/11 is serious about expansion and shopping for teams. Some talk about inviting MD.

And Gary thinks he's in Alaska now, can you imagine playing in Iowa or Wisconsin?

capitolhill

04-14-2010, 10:10 AM

This is pretty rough treatment - watch the video. The guy was merely skipping down the sidewalk, and was summarily beaten by police. It's pretty clear that he did absolutely nothing to provoke the attack (he even started backing away when he saw the police in front of him).

What's worse is that the police involved issued reports that directly contradict the video evidence.

Be glad your school isn't located in lovely PG county. When I attended school there, we had a healthy fear for all police in the area, as they are known for this type of stunt.

Oh yeah - congratulations on the championship and for properly representing the ACC. You guys really peaked at the right time and, frankly, looked like a different team than a month ago. :-)

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/13/maryland.police.beating/index.html?hpt=T1

allenmurray

04-14-2010, 10:36 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/13/AR2010041304240.html?hpid=sec-education

senkiri

04-14-2010, 10:45 AM

These are the same guys that confused a local MAYOR for a drug dealer, burst into his home with his elderly mother in law present and shot and killed his two family dogs. And then refused to apologize for it. Sick.

4decadedukie

04-14-2010, 10:53 AM

This has become a major DC-area news story and yet another unbelievable embarrassment for the PG County government (and, especially for the PG County Police). Not only does it seem that the police employed grossly excessive force -- without any provocation, by this individual UMd student -- but their official reports appear to be loaded with falsehoods. This morning, the all-news radio station in DC (WTOP) reported that the FBI is now investigating this matter as a potential Federal civil rights violation.

diesel

04-14-2010, 11:19 AM

I don’t condone police violence, as suggested by this confrontation, but await the results of the three investigations by authorities before coming to my own conclusions on culpability.

But what is striking to me is the contrast of the actions by the authorities in this matter compared to the response of the University relating to the cause of the problem. To reiterate, there are three official inquiries into this incident: by the FBI, at the Grand Jury level and by the Chief of Police of the local force.

Compare this to the actions by the University of Maryland. Riots at College Park are a part of the culture. In the latest episode, over 20 people were arrested. In past incidents, hundreds of thousands of dollars of property damage have been done.

And there’s an air of entitlement underlying all this. F bombs from the students are clearly audible at televised games, but nothing is ever done about this.

All of which may well lead participants in these riots to think they are a protected class. And it may also lead to resentment of this privileged class by Prince George police officers, with consequences that we may be witnessing.

If there was police violence here, two wrongs don’t make a right. But I can’t help attributing some of this outcome to the gutlessness and irresponsibility of the administration at the University of Maryland in failing to deal with the underlying causes of a long-running problem. How come attention isn’t being focused on the University’s role in this deplorable incident?

killerleft

04-14-2010, 11:58 AM

capitolhill says:

Be glad your school isn't located in lovely PG county. When I attended school there, we had a healthy fear for all police in the area, as they are known for this type of stunt.

WordLife565

04-14-2010, 04:02 PM

Butler would be a perfect fit there. I'm not sure what the requirements for transferring conferences are, but basketball-wise they fit in great.

I still think it should be Notre Dame. If only they would budge, and go, they would be the PERFECT fit for the big 10. regionally fits. Already have a rivalry with Michigan. what more could you ask for?

4decadedukie

04-15-2010, 11:29 AM

For those not in the DC-area, this morning’s news indicates a second PG County officer has been suspended, with the suspension of two additional officers likely today.

MChambers

04-15-2010, 12:56 PM

Nice opinion piece contrasting the celebratory styles of Maryland fans and Duke fans:

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/2010/04/police_students_both_need_to_t.html

Lord Ash

04-15-2010, 01:15 PM

You know, the University itself could consider doing something about the riots...? Or is that accepting too much responsibility for the young folks that the University houses and educates?

OldPhiKap

04-15-2010, 02:26 PM

Nice opinion piece contrasting the celebratory styles of Maryland fans and Duke fans:

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/2010/04/police_students_both_need_to_t.html

Spot on.

RockLobster

04-15-2010, 03:33 PM

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/Upload/lol/LOL-Owl.jpg

77devil

04-15-2010, 06:31 PM

Spot on.

Except for the last three words-"world class university."

BulldogDancer81

04-15-2010, 11:02 PM

Butler would be a perfect fit there. I'm not sure what the requirements for transferring conferences are, but basketball-wise they fit in great.

Basketball wise- sure, definitely. Other sports- not so much. Especially football as Butler is non-scholarship and currently in Division II.

bluepenguin

04-17-2010, 09:42 AM

This is pretty rough treatment - watch the video. The guy was merely skipping down the sidewalk, and was summarily beaten by police. It's pretty clear that he did absolutely nothing to provoke the attack (he even started backing away when he saw the police in front of him).

What's worse is that the police involved issued reports that directly contradict the video evidence.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/13/maryland.police.beating/index.html?hpt=T1
Sorry, but it's hard NOT to have sympathy for the guy after watching this video. I don't disagree with DBR's analysis of MD riots, and the effect it has on the community. Certainly something should be done about it. But allowing police to beat a student for no reason? I doubt even the residents would turn a blind eye to that. If the jurists said "go straight to hell" in a trial for this, then I would have no sympathy for the residents and what they have to deal with. It's just wrong, and suggesting the residents would condone it puts them on the same level as the rioters. I don't think they are.

MCFinARL

04-17-2010, 10:07 AM

Sorry, but it's hard NOT to have sympathy for the guy after watching this video. I don't disagree with DBR's analysis of MD riots, and the effect it has on the community. Certainly something should be done about it. But allowing police to beat a student for no reason? I doubt even the residents would turn a blind eye to that. If the jurists said "go straight to hell" in a trial for this, then I would have no sympathy for the residents and what they have to deal with. It's just wrong, and suggesting the residents would condone it puts them on the same level as the rioters. I don't think they are.

I agree completely. The kid is dancing before they start beating him--dancing. And the police tried to cover their own actions by accusing him of assaulting them first (charges which have since been dismissed). Agreed the Maryland situation generally has been allowed to get out of hand and people who live in the neighborhood might understandably be sick of it. But the police still have to try to exercise a little judgment and discipline. Apparently, according to witnesses I saw on the news, there were kids out there who were aggressively challenging the police or poking at their horses--but there is no evidence that this guy was one of them, and even if they felt the need to subdue him because he was approaching them, there's no excuse for continuing to beat on him once he is lying on the ground in a completely defensive posture.

One more aspect of this confused situation--one Md. student interviewed on TV said she was trying to go home, but the line of riot police wouldn't let anyone through. Again--not a defense of students who feel entitled to behave badly and trash the neighborhood--but some of them may have had other reasons for being in the area after the game.

Dr. Rosenrosen

04-17-2010, 10:31 AM

You can talk all day about the students or the police being wrong. In my opinion, both are at fault. But I can't figure out why the university isn't being held responsible. Here's an idea (if this is not already the case)... charge the university for the all crowd control related expenses (for any game) and make sure it is held responsible for cleanup, property damage, etc. If common decency isn't enough to light a fire (pun intended), then perhaps money is. Oh, and how about throwing a few students out of school. The administration needs to step up and take responsibility. And if they can't, or won't, then someone should force them to. Residents, alumni, someone. I was lucky enough to be at Duke for the first two NCs. It was a little rowdy (nothing like the idiots in College Park). But the administration took steps soon thereafter to control the celebrations (read: bench burning). I cannot even fathom the backlash if something like this happened here in Durham. It would only happen once...

BD80

04-17-2010, 12:33 PM

Am I the only one who thinks street-dancing is just cause for police aggression?

I haven't watched the video, so I am speaking in generalities.

and facetiously.

budwom

04-17-2010, 12:52 PM

Referencing the DBR piece on Maryland riots past and present: as much as I deplore violence and boneheaded cops and boneheaded Terrapins, damaging a Comcast facility seems like something of a public service to me.

sundown

04-17-2010, 01:34 PM

magjayran

04-17-2010, 02:01 PM

All jokes aside, this sort of behavior from the police is inexcusable.

hudlow

04-17-2010, 02:15 PM

I think the horse was spooked by the smell.

hud

cspan37421

04-17-2010, 03:25 PM

What a bizarre post by DBR on the police beatings. Let me see if I have this straight: because past Maryland celebrations have led to riotous behavior, anyone who attends one of these is a rioter (regardless of his own conduct), and thus deserves no sympathy when police savagely beat him, even if he did nothing (besides being there) to warrant it? How about this: it's wrong to destroy others' property; peacefully attending a celebration where others destroy property doesn't make one complicit in it (that is, you're not a rioter just for showing up); police brutality is wrong, even against legitimate rioters, and especially against harmless drunks who dance in the general direction of police.

One might think that you could be against both rioting and police brutality, and leave it at that. Instead, DBR uses this story of police brutality to reiterate the obvious point that rioting is wrong, and to speculate on how it might not be so bad if cops who flagrantly abused their power and brutalized a harmless student were exonerated because it might lead to greater order.

"If the idea is that they should be left alone to destroy the neighborhood and terrorize people, some of whom surely are elderly and infirm, we’re not buying it."

Yes, clearly the choice is between police brutality and unchecked anarchy.

What a great post by a relative newcomer. I was wondering if I was the only one who felt the DBR editorial to be a non sequitur.

Let's keep in mind that the same mitigation could be made for Nifong's behavior. After all, the lacrosse team had been known to party hard, make noise, maybe even a member or two urinated in public - so are we to think, hey, don't feel sorry for them being falsely accused, railroaded, having exculpatory evidence hidden from them, etc.?

Injustice is injustice. Unless that guy was skipping down the street because he had just thrown a brick through a cop car window, he appeared to be not guilty of anything. And frankly, even if he had, it would not excuse the police from beating him - he wasn't resisting arrest!

I hope this is just a one-off DBR editorial that missed the mark. I too think Maryland fans who riot (in good times and bad) are classless, and have said so many times, but I can't think of anything that justifies this treatment or mitigates it for the cops.

JWA71

04-17-2010, 04:00 PM

... Apparently, according to witnesses I saw on the news, there were kids out there who were aggressively challenging the police or poking at their horses--but there is no evidence that this guy was one of them, and even if they felt the need to subdue him because he was approaching them, there's no excuse for continuing to beat on him once he is lying on the ground in a completely defensive posture.

One more aspect of this confused situation--one Md. student interviewed on TV said she was trying to go home, but the line of riot police wouldn't let anyone through. Again--not a defense of students who feel entitled to behave badly and trash the neighborhood--but some of them may have had other reasons for being in the area after the game.

Granted the police's behavior was brutal and I hope those guys get the appropriate punishment, but when I watched the video my first thought was that the Maryland student was trying to cross a police line. (The second paragraph quoted seems to confirm that there was a police line.) So, I think that there was some provocation, but he should have been arrested for a minor offense instead of being beaten. Of course, we don't know what he may have said or done prior to the beating. I don't think he was picked out randomly.

CrazieDUMB

04-17-2010, 06:10 PM

I'm glad that other people have pointed out that the DBR editorial on the front page was out of line. Was it a bad situation all around? Of course. Would this probably not have happened if the students didn't riot? Probably. Does that make this story less sensational? Absolutely not.

No matter what college students do, the police are another matter. They are trusted with the utmost authority, and the proper use of that authority is paramount to having a reliable justice system. We've seen that not only did they beat an innocent person, but fabricated police reports after to justify thier horrible actions.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the police. I think those officers should go to jail, not just for beating someone but for abusing the power we entrust them with.

A-Tex Devil

04-17-2010, 06:16 PM

If the video tells the whole story, the police should be prosecuted.

I feel a little bad for the kid, but when you decide to partake in a riot, you assume some risk. And in PG County, there is risk that some annoyed cop is going to go to far. (Or hell, you bump into another rioter and he takes a offense and punches you out).

I'm not saying it's justified, I am saying it's an assumed risk.

Here's the solution Terp fans --- don't &*%$ing riot.

Duke Mom

04-17-2010, 07:43 PM

There is never any justification for police brutality - ever. The facts of this case will come out, but based on what one can see from the video, doesn't seem to be any physical provocation from the Maryland student who was beaten. Furthermore, there is the strong appearance of lying on the part of the police in their report. (Sorry, DBR) Expressing "sympathy" for police brutality is dangerous - the next head that gets bashed could be your own - or your kid's.

The police are agents of the government, and exist to protect the public and individual citizens from harm. Despite obnoxious or unlawful behavior from students, officers of the law cannot be allowed to use their own positions of power to inflict their own unlawful behavior on students - even one's who are obnoxious or inebriated.

That said, UMD administration should have more backbone about enforcing proper fan behavior at athletic events. Taunting the opposition is fine - we are experts at that - but choruses of "F... You Duke/Scheyer (fill in the blank) cross the line. Fans who engage in that should be removed from a game. If students need to celebrate after a win, maybe UMD needs to come up with some on campus vehicles for doing so, perhaps that would keep students away from local property. Either way, anyone who breaks the law should be properly dealt with - not beaten without provocation.

SMO

04-17-2010, 08:48 PM

Let's keep in mind that the same mitigation could be made for Nifong's behavior. After all, the lacrosse team had been known to party hard, make noise, maybe even a member or two urinated in public - so are we to think, hey, don't feel sorry for them being falsely accused, railroaded, having exculpatory evidence hidden from them, etc.?

That was the first thing that came to my mind. The DBR editorial sounded similar to "Whatever they did was bad enough." Someone please tell me that's not what was intended.

NDMD

04-17-2010, 09:01 PM

Duvall

04-17-2010, 09:04 PM

The University is handling the issue.

Well, it's been ten years. How many more decades do you think it will take before the issue is resolved?

NDMD

04-17-2010, 09:11 PM

Well, it's been ten years. How many more decades do you think it will take before the issue is resolved?

Again, the University is located in an open, urban environment.

All sorts of people walk onto the campus.

Are you suggesting, perhaps, that the administration erect a 25 foot high wall around the campus?

Duvall

04-17-2010, 09:14 PM

Again, the University is located in an open, urban environment.

All sorts of people walk onto the campus.

Are you suggesting, perhaps, that the administration erect a 25 foot high wall around the campus?

Come on now. We've seen the photos. I've been to Duke games in College Park, though I chose to skip the riot afterwards. Those are students, not visitors from the "urban environment."

Duke Mom

04-17-2010, 09:27 PM

The University of Maryland is an open campus integrated within an urban environment less than 10 minutes from Washington, DC. Anybody and everbody can walk onto the campus.

To solely blame the students for the disturbances belies a lack of understanding of this fact.

No one is condoning the criminal misbehavior after certain games.

The University is handling the issue. If you're arrested and convicted for disorderly conduct after one of these affairs, you're dismissed.

Well, that's a step in the right direction, but... why doesn't the administration take it to where it starts - at the games, themselves. Why don't they eject fans who swear at opposing teams/athletes? Maybe if students knew there would be consequences for such behavior from the get-go, it might influence post game behavior, as well. Seeing and hearing the choruses of F Us on TV is such bad PR for UMD. Could affect alum contributions or even the number of applications for admissions. As a parent, sure would make me think twice about UMD, which is a shame because it's a decent university.

hedevil

04-17-2010, 10:06 PM

All I have to do to determine right from wrong on that video is imagine if that was either of my children. For some reason I don't think I would find the actions taken justified.

sagegrouse

04-17-2010, 10:25 PM

Well, that's a step in the right direction, but... why doesn't the administration take it to where it starts - at the games, themselves. Why don't they eject fans who swear at opposing teams/athletes? Maybe if students knew there would be consequences for such behavior from the get-go, it might influence post game behavior, as well. Seeing and hearing the choruses of F Us on TV is such bad PR for UMD. Could affect alum contributions or even the number of applications for admissions. As a parent, sure would make me think twice about UMD, which is a shame because it's a decent university.

The UMd administration and athletic department are shameless. They are hiding behind bogus advice from university lawyers about constitutionally protected speech. Right. "F*** JJ" is constitutionally protected, and the university has no ability to deny admissions to students wearing such slogans or chanting such cheers. Not really. Simply denying admission or ejecting miscreants puts the burden on the students. How many parents are gonna foot the bill for a lawyer to defend such garbage behavior?

The real solution is for Gary to say, "We are not going to stand for this, and I will pull my team off the court if it doesn't stop." I like Gary, but this a huge blind spot.

And BTW, controlling the crowds at the game would probably do wonders in reducing rioting after the game. "If we win, we riot; if we lose we riot. Whatever happens, we are going to go wild."

UMd deserves all the crap it gets, although not abusive behavior by the goons in the P.G. county police department.

sagegrouse

4decadedukie

04-17-2010, 11:15 PM

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

I simply could not agree more!

allenmurray

04-17-2010, 11:18 PM

The DBR editorial was an embarassment to this site. The author basically excuses police brutality against an innocent person based on the past actions of others. It wa shocking and sickening.

Lord Ash

04-18-2010, 12:03 AM

Eh, I find myself basically siding with the DBR editorial. Like those guys I do not condone police violence. At the same time I have a hard time working up excessive sympathy for a bunch of folks out for a good time at the local riot after years of public destruction, with nary a responsible adult in sight trying to do a damn thing about it. Hopefully the University of Maryland will learn something from this event.

A-Tex Devil

04-18-2010, 03:25 AM

The DBR editorial was an embarassment to this site. The author basically excuses police brutality against an innocent person based on the past actions of others. It wa shocking and sickening.

I think I disagree. And I don't usually side with DBR on things like this. I think everyone agrees that if the tape we have all seen is reality, that the policemen should be prosecuted.

OK, now that we all agree on that....

Choosing to go partake in a riot opens you up to certain risks. All DBR is saying is that it doesn't fully sympathize with the poor kid. That being said, I, personally, feel bad for the kid if the tape shows the full extent of what happened. But I don't feel bad for Maryland. You can tell me what you want about the people that show up after the games that "aren't MD students or fans". I see the MD fans at the games and at the riots. They are loving every minute of it.

cspan37421

04-18-2010, 07:38 AM

if skipping down the sidewalk on a public street now equals "partake in a riot" then the English language has evolved faster than I realized.

allenmurray

04-18-2010, 09:23 AM

if skipping down the sidewalk on a public street now equals "partake in a riot" then the English language has evolved faster than I realized.

There are few here who hold Maryland fans in ore contempt than do I (being an embarassed alum). But I couldn't agree with you more. If I have to choose which is worse - Maryland fans or police burtaity against a person who (with the added benefit of vidoetape) has done nothig violent, I think I'd have to go with police brutality.

miramar

04-18-2010, 01:07 PM

The real solution is for Gary to say, "We are not going to stand for this, and I will pull my team off the court if it doesn't stop." I like Gary, but this a huge blind spot.

And BTW, controlling the crowds at the game would probably do wonders in reducing rioting after the game. "If we win, we riot; if we lose we riot. Whatever happens, we are going to go wild."

sagegrouse

We have two serious but related problems here: on the one hand police brutality and on the other a student body that has been out of control for years.

Fortunately, after some delay the police department has finally indicated that they take their problem seriously. I can't say the same for Maryland's administration or coaching staff.

It appears that Gary feeds off the aggression of the crowd and that he accepts it as part of the us against the world attitude that he uses to pump his team up. If he spends half the game turning around and lecturing the players on the bench, he can do the same to the crowd every once in a while.

PS. After roundly criticizing the police brutality and initial cover up, a Washington Post editorial concludes: "Finally, the University of Maryland's responsibility, or rather abdication of it, should not go unmentioned. Despite ample experience with past sports-related unrest, neither university authorities nor student leaders have devised an effective way of preventing drunk and unruly students from spilling off campus to menace traffic and destroy property in College Park. In the past, students have rejected university suggestions of rallies and concerts as lacking spontaneity, and the university has issued mild condemnations of students without actually disciplining very many of them. Maryland has made strides toward joining the ranks of top-drawer public universities; it's time it started acting like one.":

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/15/AR2010041505394.html

Wander

04-18-2010, 01:56 PM

At the same time I have a hard time working up excessive sympathy for a bunch of folks

The problem with this logic is that no one is asking you to have sympathy for a bunch of rioters. The Maryland fans suck, their actions are generally completely inexcusable. But this is about ONE kid - thinking of him as representing all the evils the Maryland fans commit isn't fair at all, and yes, there are some lessons from the LAX case being lost here. The tone of the DBR piece was an embarrassment and represents Duke really really poorly.

flyingdutchdevil

04-19-2010, 07:20 AM

The problem with this logic is that no one is asking you to have sympathy for a bunch of rioters. The Maryland fans suck, their actions are generally completely inexcusable. But this is about ONE kid - thinking of him as representing all the evils the Maryland fans commit isn't fair at all, and yes, there are some lessons from the LAX case being lost here. The tone of the DBR piece was an embarrassment and represents Duke really really poorly.

Absolutely have to second that. Really surprised that DBR would write something like that.

RelativeWays

04-19-2010, 07:42 AM

There is no way chants like "F--- you JJ" would ever qualify for 1st amendment protection. Obscenities are not protected under the 1st amendment, there is no way any panel of jurors or whoever could deem that phrase as anything but obscene. It doesn't meet any of the qualifications of protected speech going by the Miller test.

jdj4duke

04-19-2010, 09:51 AM

T
The tone of the DBR piece was an embarrassment and represents Duke really really poorly.

Not to be picky, but DBR does not represent Duke. (and yes, I understand that to a degree that all of us, and especially those with some formal affiliation with the University, represent Duke).

I found the video of the kid getting pummeled to be more like the riots in Kyrgyzstan than even what has been seen before in MD. Did the kid look like he deserved it (as if anyone deserves a police beatdown)? Nope. The cops and their reactions both during and after the fact, look bad and unjustifiable.

Folks have made a number of comments trying to compare the College Park stupidity to the lacrosse situation. While hard to ignore the possible similarity between police assumptions about the predispositions and "prior bad acts" of UMD rioters and the misbehaving lacrosse team, it is likewise difficult to compare the evident actions of two or three cops and how Nifong individually, persistently and systematically pursued a dishonest, manipulative, and perjured persecution of the lacrosse team. Those PG County police have since been suspended within about a month of the deed; Nifong's clear shenanigans persisted for what seemed to be years.

DBR's reach to non-basketball topics is usually thoughtful, researched, and provides enough background to be considered in the same vein as any of their other editorial comments whether basketball related or not. Their explanations are neither excuses nor justifications. The upshot of the DBR piece, that the general atmosphere at and around UMD basketball games (particularly those involving Duke) has fostered and contributed to wider-ranging and escalating poisonous attitudes, behavior and violence, is not a stretch.

sagegrouse

04-19-2010, 10:25 AM

Not to be picky, but DBR does not represent Duke. (and yes, I understand that to a degree that all of us, and especially those with some formal affiliation with the University, represent Duke). .

Those of us who fritter our time away here have a somewhat contrary view the DBR does represent Duke: We are justly proud of DBR's pre-eminence among college basketball fan sites as a source of temperate and well-reasoned remarks. And we make the huge leap of faith that such a position is connected to the posters, many of whom have Duke backgrounds.

I don't think the article is that big an issue. It's a blog and doesn't go through the normal editing and review process a more formal publication would have. Second, it was more wishy-washy than in total error.

I found the video of the kid getting pummeled to be more like the riots in Kyrgyzstan than even what has been seen before in MD. Did the kid look like he deserved it (as if anyone deserves a police beatdown)? Nope. The cops and their reactions both during and after the fact, look bad and unjustifiable. .

Reminded me of the Chicago riots at the 1968 Democratic Convention, which the Kerner Report labeled "a police riot." The cops didn't even have the excuses that "You know, the police hate long-haired hippies" or "Outsiders -- ugh!" Those are poor excuses, but these were Maryland kids from the same communities as the police. I mean, what is going on? Are the Prince George's County police that out of control?

sagegrouse

allenmurray

04-19-2010, 10:40 AM

Not to be picky, but DBR does not represent Duke. (and yes, I understand that to a degree that all of us, and especially those with some formal affiliation with the University, represent Duke).

One of the resons DBR gave for dropping the PPB was that they felt it didn't represent the university well. They use the same logic and langauge for other editorial choices, choosing whic h osts to delete, etc. I have no problem with that. Howevere, it is incosnistent to take some actions saying that you do so because of the way those choices represent the university, then later say you don't represent the univerity in other situations. You have to take the fleas with the dog.

jdj4duke

04-19-2010, 10:46 AM

We are justly proud of DBR's pre-eminence among college basketball fan sites as a source of temperate and well-reasoned remarks. And we make the huge leap of faith that such a position is connected to the posters, many of whom have Duke backgrounds.

sagegrouse

Just to be clear- I agree completely with your comments on DBR; it's the best of its kind and reflects well on folks who post and frequent the site. There is no intent in my comments to imply otherwise. I hope the last paragraph in my post confirms the regard I have for the site and the even-handedness of its content.

-jk

04-19-2010, 11:20 AM

One of the resons DBR gave for dropping the PPB was that they felt it didn't represent the university well. They use the same logic and langauge for other editorial choices, choosing whic h osts to delete, etc. I have no problem with that. Howevere, it is incosnistent to take some actions saying that you do so because of the way those choices represent the university, then later say you don't represent the univerity in other situations. You have to take the fleas with the dog.

To clarify: The mods opted to close the PPB; it was our decision. Conversely, the mods have nothing to do with content posted on the main DBR site. These are mostly unrelated areas of DBR from a day-to-day management standpoint.

For anyone wanting to give direct feedback on a main site editorial, the best way is to use the "contact" link on the menu at the top.

-jk