Rewatching the Game

[SoCalDukeFan]

Finally got around to watching the game.

Some comments:

1. Butler missed some pretty open looks early in the game.
2. Butler's tough D revolves around the theory that if you keep fouling they will tired of calling them. Howard probably committed 10 fouls.
3. Whomever figured out that we could score with ease on the underneath inbounds passes should get a special commendation.
4. The tough D which forced Butler to use their last timeout was huge.
5. When I watched the game live I thought both of Hayward's last two shots were going in. Easier on the heart to know that they missed.
6. Fun to rewatch the game.

SoCal

[EKU1969]

Finally got around to watching the game.

Some comments:
2. Butler's tough D revolves around the theory that if you keep fouling they will tired of calling them. Howard probably committed 10 fouls.

In reading other fan sites, this was said about Duke and Zoubek numerous times. It is all in one's perspective and, wearing the blue lenses of Duke, all I can say is GO DUKE! National Champs!

[BlueDevilBaby]

I rewatched twice Friday night. Considering how few points Duke scored in the last 8 or so minutes of the game (7, I believe) (4 in last 5 minutes, 1 in last 3 minutes), I am still surprised we won. Could not have done it without such a great defensive effort by the team and lucky miss at the end.

[OldPhiKap]

Both teams were very physical and there were not a lot of fouls called either way.

It is no surprise that Butler plays that way -- when Syracuse lost, Jim Boeheim said that it was the most physical defense they had faced all year. It was a man's game and I'm glad we had Z.

[Indoor66]

I rewatched twice Friday night. Considering how few points Duke scored in the last 8 or so minutes of the game (7, I believe) (4 in last 5 minutes, 1 in last 3 minutes), I am still surprised we won. Could not have done it without such a great defensive effort by the team and lucky miss at the end.

I agree with most of this, but I don't consder a missed 45+ foot shot taken on the dead run to be a luck miss. A make would be lucky.

[ElSid]

I didn't DVR this game. I would love to re-watch it. Does anyone know an outlet where I can download and rewatch it?

[BlueDevilBaby]

I agree with most of this, but I don't consder a missed 45+ foot shot taken on the dead run to be a luck miss. A make would be lucky.

Agreed. I should have said lucky-for-us-miss.

[superdave]

I didn't DVR this game. I would love to re-watch it. Does anyone know an outlet where I can download and rewatch it?

Try the MMOD site that CBS/NCAA have.

[greybeard]

[QUOTE=SoCalDukeFan;397033]Finally got around to watching the game.

Some comments:
2. Butler's tough D revolves around the theory that if you keep fouling they will tired of calling them. Howard probably committed 10 fouls.

In reading other fan sites, this was said about Duke and Zoubek numerous times. It is all in one's perspective and, wearing the blue lenses of Duke, all I can say is GO DUKE! National Champs!

No less a personage than Tom Izzo called out the refs for allowing Butler to get away with fouling as a routine part of their defense immediately after State's loss. Izzo is no pansy and this was on a big, big stage. He doesn't say something like this unless he is really, really ticked and has reason to be.

Many of the noncalls involving Zoubek involved contact created by the offense. When Zoubek guarded a guy inside, the guy would get his arms wrapped in Zoubek's and then flail, because Zoubek could close down passing lanes without having to play too far around. Others, Zoubek would be standing ramrod straight with arms straight up and offensive players would either innitiate contact to try to score over the wall, or at times flail after, having gotten into Zoubek's chest (playing against a shot blocker 101) they shot it, hoping to draw a foul which would usually result if the defender were to jump which is hardly ever the case when Brian was defending, so there was no movement whatever by the defender, that would be Brian, only a sorry attempt by a smaller shooter to make chest to chest contact and act as if contact above followed by a downward swipe which never came.

Other fo fouls involving Zoubek can on his screens which were just so wide and solid down low. A guard would try to run through them. If strong enough, as was apparently the case with some of Butler's defenders early in the game, Zoubek might have been felled by these blows to his legs when defenders tried to go over the screens. Usually it just involved more flailing by a defender who tried to make a play that was not there (there is a reason that everyone plays show defense on screens these days with the screened defender going below and then catching up).

In short, the nonsense about Brian's getting away with calls this year is just that. Rather, as we all know, until he established a rep that precluded referee biases infusing their calls, Brian was tagged for a foul if he so much as went for a loose ball, or successfully knocked away a penetrating pass to a big.

So, I think that Izzo's post game railing at the refs stands as fairly reliable proof of what I thought I had seen from Butler against Michigan State and Duke--and which I presume was a stapple of baby face's coaching style all year.

I have detailed in several previous posts two other significant plays involving blatent fouls that could have been game changers that were not called against Butler.

I repeat all this stuff to put meat on the bones of one of the cleverest ditties seen here in a while--2. "Butler's tough D revolves around the theory that if you keep fouling they will tired of calling them. Howard probably committed 10 fouls." quoting SoCallDuke

[Turk]

Finally got around to watching the game.

Some comments:

1. Butler missed some pretty open looks early in the game.
2. Butler's tough D revolves around the theory that if you keep fouling they will tired of calling them. Howard probably committed 10 fouls.
3. Whomever figured out that we could score with ease on the underneath inbounds passes should get a special commendation.
4. The tough D which forced Butler to use their last timeout was huge.
5. When I watched the game live I thought both of Hayward's last two shots were going in. Easier on the heart to know that they missed.
6. Fun to rewatch the game.

SoCal

My take (going from memory now):

1. The reason their D is so physical is because their guards help and recover so quickly. If there was a high ball screen, they would chase and follow hard, attacking from behind if within reach, knowing there's help underneath. Late in the 2nd, that's how Scheyer was fouled and made the shot for a 3pt play. Another time, Nolan went down the lane, must have felt the guy on his back, and so Nolan hit the brakes just past the elbow. The guy ran into him for the foul and Nolan cashed the free throws. Butler collapsed hard on entry passes and loose balls. And the one play in the last two minutes where Duke drove baseline under the basket and tried to throw a kickout pass to the deep corner that was intercepted was great defense.

2. I wish there had been a better replay (heck, ANY replay) of Zoubek's 4th foul when Hayward drove down the lane under 4 minutes. CBS went right to break, and I could see Zoubs say "On ME?!? I didn't touch him!!" in complete astonishment. It was a different reaction than the eye-roll / grimace / head-shake of a "I can't believe you really called that ticky-tacky touch foul" when there is at least some type of contact. I re-ran it a couple times, but the only camera angle was lousy and there was a lot of traffic in there. I think Brian was telling the truth and Hayward lost his balance.

3. The shot that actually scared me the most was when Mack had a wide open 3-ball with about a minute to go. Butler had Duke chasing them the entire possession and Mack stepped into the shot in perfect rhythm.

4. Duke's defense was just as good as Butler's.

[tbyers11]

I didn't DVR this game. I would love to re-watch it. Does anyone know an outlet where I can download and rewatch it?

If you get CBS College Sports, it will be on Friday, April 16th at 4pm and 10pm Eastern

Schedule (http://www.cbscollegesports.com/schedule/)

[MChambers]

I wish there had been a better replay (heck, ANY replay) of Zoubek's 4th foul when Hayward drove down the lane under 4 minutes. CBS went right to break, and I could see Zoubs say "On ME?!? I didn't touch him!!" in complete astonishment. It was a different reaction than the eye-roll / grimace / head-shake of a "I can't believe you really called that ticky-tacky touch foul" when there is at least some type of contact. I re-ran it a couple times, but the only camera angle was lousy and there was a lot of traffic in there. I think Brian was telling the truth and Hayward lost his balance.

My take on that one was that Zoubs got all ball, but it was a make-up call, because Hayward and Singler had bumped in the lane a second or two before the call on Zoubs. But you're right, there was no replace, oddly.

Doesn't really matter now, of course.

[Lennies]

I have a couple questions about setting screens..

1) can you spread your legs wide?

2) why isn't the defensive player called for a foul when they run into a screen?

[Billy Dat]

I only have the final 9:38 on my DVR. I have watched it about 5 times.

It is, obviously, the most agonizing and intense portion of an agonizing and intense game.

Watching it again and again you really get the feeling that the basketball gods were involved to keep it agonizing and intense.

We had many, many chances to extend that lead past 5 and the reasons we didn't were as varied as they were frustrating:
-Zoubs pulls down a huge O rebound and throws it way over Nolan's head for a backcourt violation
-Singler throws the ball to Butler trying to hit Jon for a corner 3
-Nolan misses a point blank lay-up that he never misses

Our defense was really great, though. Singler's blocked shots were enormous. The fact that Jon was in perfect position to catch Kyle's second block to keep it from going out of bounds was a perfect example of the hundreds of heady plays he's made for 4 years. Kyle, Lance and Z really had some huge boards and deflections down the stretch.

The more I watch, the more I understand why K didn't want to go to overtime. They broke their drought with those two inside baskets by Howard (a really interesting player, BTW) that drew them within 1. The defense we played between the ball going off Z's foot on the short armed Kyle wing jumper, and Z grabbing the rebound off the Hayward miss, was amazing! THAT was the best defense played by either team the whole night, that 30 second sequence that straddled a Butler timeout.

I can't wait to watch the first 30 minutes again - if only to see some scoring.

[greybeard]

My take (going from memory now):

1. The reason their D is so physical is because their guards help and recover so quickly. If there was a high ball screen, they would chase and follow hard, attacking from behind if within reach, knowing there's help underneath. Late in the 2nd, that's how Scheyer was fouled and made the shot for a 3pt play. Another time, Nolan went down the lane, must have felt the guy on his back, and so Nolan hit the brakes just past the elbow. The guy ran into him for the foul and Nolan cashed the free throws. Butler collapsed hard on entry passes and loose balls. And the one play in the last two minutes where Duke drove baseline under the basket and tried to throw a kickout pass to the deep corner that was intercepted was great defense.

2. I wish there had been a better replay (heck, ANY replay) of Zoubek's 4th foul when Hayward drove down the lane under 4 minutes. CBS went right to break, and I could see Zoubs say "On ME?!? I didn't touch him!!" in complete astonishment. It was a different reaction than the eye-roll / grimace / head-shake of a "I can't believe you really called that ticky-tacky touch foul" when there is at least some type of contact. I re-ran it a couple times, but the only camera angle was lousy and there was a lot of traffic in there. I think Brian was telling the truth and Hayward lost his balance.

3. The shot that actually scared me the most was when Mack had a wide open 3-ball with about a minute to go. Butler had Duke chasing them the entire possession and Mack stepped into the shot in perfect rhythm.

4. Duke's defense was just as good as Butler's.

K said his players had trouble on offense getting to screens that had been set, that Butler was keeping them from running cuts. I'm not sure how that gets done without what I understand as a foul.

The first few Duke possessions that did not result in baskets it seemed that there were pile ups around the foul line. Anybody know how they happened?

[BlueDevilBaby]

Another comment after watching again. Duke recovered many tipped dribbles/passes by Butler that other opponents like MI State lost. Duke was strong with the ball and kept possession after possession alive when they easily could have been lost.

[greybeard]

It weemed to me that Zoubek had difficulty often untwining himself to begin moving to set screens, or was otherwise impeded in that. I do not recall them showing it, but K said the big three were impeded from cutting which is integral not only to the screen game, but also to finding space off dribble penetration. If anyone wants to check, it would be interesting if any of what was broadcast shows Butler's off the ball defense and if it confirms what I thought I saw regarding Butler's impeding Brian from moving.

This wouldn't be the first time where a mid major got away with fouling off the ball as part of their regular defense and slew giants. Davidson's 6'7" center had his arms encircling Hibbert all the time, and physically stepped in his path anytime he attempted to move toward the ball. Hibbert got two offensive fouls when he raised an arm to show for a pass and got ensnared by the defender who looked to make more of it then there was. When JTIII had Freeman post up a much smaller defender, Freeman picked up two offensive fouls without ever even touching the ball;neither of them were for pushing off, aka a defender in front, you push before going for a lob. He had one entangled arms' offensive foul called and then got called I think trying to move up the lane after setting low.

Impeding progress off the ball like this is against the rules and also is destructive to good play.

I think that that is what K spoke about when he said that his guys were having trouble cutting off screens (he attributed it, as always, to "good" defense) and what Izzo was less kind in describing for what it was.

The next time any of you with replay abilities watch, it'd be cool if you have anything you can report back about this. One of the problems, off the ball stuff is often not what they broadcast, unless it results in an offensive foul being called, less often defensive. You'd probably have to look hard at background stuff.

Wow, what a game!

Maybe I'm a fatalist, but I was not worried the entire last 3 minutes. I thought that Duke was outplaying Butler the entire time, things were just not falling, the ref blew the timeout or foul call in lieu of a jump ball call after Lance made a beautiful steal, and then Singler got "killed." If Duke had lost on the last shot, hey, stuff happens. That said, I'm sure glad it missed, not only because I have been completely in the bag for your guys more and more as the season progressed, but because I think that Duke clearly had the better of the play throughout the second half, in particular.

[chrishoke]

Great thread.
I thought Zoubek's deflection out of bounds in our last defensive sequence was one of the biggest plays of the game. It forced them to reset the offense and limited their options to a one-on-one move which we defended beautifully.

[Duke Parent 06]

2. I wish there had been a better replay (heck, ANY replay) of Zoubek's 4th foul when Hayward drove down the lane under 4 minutes. CBS went right to break, and I could see Zoubs say "On ME?!? I didn't touch him!!" in complete astonishment. It was a different reaction than the eye-roll / grimace / head-shake of a "I can't believe you really called that ticky-tacky touch foul" when there is at least some type of contact. I re-ran it a couple times, but the only camera angle was lousy and there was a lot of traffic in there. I think Brian was telling the truth and Hayward lost his balance.

Brian didn't touch him. (He seemed to want to reach in and pulled back.) Nolan was there, had a good view, and was equally incredulous. I think Brian's and Nolan's reactions may have been somewhat effective on the refs to avoid a fifth foul call.

[Duke Parent 06]

Great thread.
I thought Zoubek's deflection out of bounds in our last defensive sequence was one of the biggest plays of the game. It forced them to reset the offense and limited their options to a one-on-one move which we defended beautifully.

The deflection just prevented an open three point shot from the corner (for which Zoubek might have been out of position for a rebound).

[Zeb]

I have a couple questions about setting screens..

1) can you spread your legs wide?

2) why isn't the defensive player called for a foul when they run into a screen?

I play in the post and I second both of these questions.

Players always complain if you set a pick with your feet wider than shoulder length apart, but you see Duke big men do it frequently. I assume it is legal but would like to see a rule.

I know I have been called for a foul when I run through a screen and just blow someone up (meaning the person who set the screen is knocked to the ground), but on the flip side if I set a pick and remain still (do not get knocked over by contact), the person who ran into me is never called for a foul (nor do I expect a call).

[OldPhiKap]

^ If that's illegal, Lance hasn't set a legal screen in four years. I don't know the rule but he's so pronounced in his screens that, even with all of the refs in our pocket as we all know, someone would have called that. (There must be one or two that aren't on the payroll).

I would guess that it's not a foul for the defender to make contact because that's the purpose of the screen. If you try to push through and dislodge the defender from his position, I imagine that is like any other foul in the post.




(Embellishment in first paragraph for my friends in CH who think every Duke win is because "8>5").

[DukeUsul]

From the NCAA rules


Section 59. Screen
Art. 1. A screen is legal action by any player, offensive or defensive, with or without the ball, which, without causing contact, delays or prevents an opponent from reaching a desired position.
Art. 2. In establishing and maintaining legal screening tactics, the screener shall:
a. Stay within his or her vertical plane with a stance no wider than shoulder width apart and shall not lean into the path of an opponent or extend hips into that path, even though the feet are stationary.
b. Not be required to face in any particular direction at any time.
Art. 3. A player shall not:
a. Cause contact by setting a screen outside the visual field of a stationary opponent that does not allow this opponent a normal step to move. Make contact with the opponent when setting a screen within the visual field of that opponent.
c. Take a position so close to a moving opponent that this opponent cannot avoid contact by stopping or changing direction.
Art. 4. No player, while moving, shall set a screen that causes contact and delays an opponent from reaching a desired position.
Art. 5. When both opponents are moving in exactly the same path and direction and the screener slows down or stops and contact results, the trailing player shall be responsible for such contact.
Art. 6. No player shall use arm(s), hand(s), hip(s) or shoulder(s) to force through a screen or to hold or push the screener.
Art. 7. Screeners shall not line up next to each other within 6 feet of a boundary line and parallel to it so that contact occurs.
a. Screeners shall be permitted to line up parallel to a boundary line and next to each other without locking arms or grasping each other, provided that the screen is set at least 6 feet from that boundary line

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I have no idea where to put this, but for those who care, Jay Williams is was on sportsnation today, and there is a re-run on right now for those who missed it, on espn 2