Olympic Fan
04-11-2010, 12:31 PM
Just to clarify something that's on the front page about the K vs. Rupp debate:
-- Rupp's first two titles (1948, 1949) were won against an eight-team NCAA field. He won his third title (1951) in the year when the field expanded to 16 teams. He won his fourth title in 1958 against a 24-team NCAA field.
Those first two titles came in a tournament that excluded many of the nation's best teams. The first AP poll came out in 1949 and that NCAA Tournament excluded No. 3 St. Louis, No. 5 Western Kentucky, No. 6 Minnesota, No. 7 Bradley, No. 8 San Francisco, No. 9 Tulane and No. 10 Bowling Green -- think if that, seven of the top 10 teams were not invited.
-- On the other hand, the selection process was much more haphazard in those early days -- the eight-team field was picked by regional selection committees who could pick whomever they wanted. That's why in 1946, UNC was picked ahead of Duke's conference champions. I've always wondered how Kentucky got the bid over 22-2 Duke in 1942 ... I'm sure the fact that Rupp was on the Region 3 selection committee had nothing to do with it (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).
Of course, that could work against him too. In 1950, Kentucky finished as SEC champs, ranked No. 3 in the nation, but did not get a bid when Rupp refused to play No. 5 N.C. State in a one-game playoff to determine the Region 3 bid.
It was the next year that the field expanded and all the major conference champions were guaranteed a bid. From that point, Kentucky had to win the SEC title to advance, which wasn't the hardest thing in the world.
I think the great argument for K is that he's been greater longer -- as hard as that is to believe, he's won his four national titles over a 20-season span (1991-2010) ... Rupp's four titles came in an 11-season span (1948-58).
K's also has 11 Final Four appearances to Rupp's 6.
K also has a 77-22 NCAA record (77.8 pct.), compared to Rupp's 30-18 record (62.5 percent).
And, obviously, early next season, K will pass Rupp on the career win list ...
Obviously, this is a Duke board and we're going to think K is greater. I'm sure Kentucky fans will argue for Rupp (indeed, before the finals, I saw K being ripped on the Kentucky boards for "only" winning three of his first 10 Final Fours ... better, I suppose, in their eyes to not get to the Final Four than to get there and not win it all).
But I think the numbers speak for themselves K>Rupp ...
Note: I actually saw it mentioned on the board and it did check it out -- K's won titles over the longest span of anybody else in history. The 20-year span between his first and last titles is longer than any multiple winner:
Wooden 10 titles in 12 years (all between 1964-76)
K 4 titles in 20 years
Rupp 4 titles in 11 years
Knight 3 titles in 12 years (1976-87)
Branch McCracken 2 titles in 14 years (1940-53)
Dean Smith 2 titles in 12 years (1982-93)
Jim Calhoun 2 titles 6 years (1999-2004)
Denny Crum 2 titles in 7 years (1980-86)
Roy Williams 2 titles in 5 years (2005-09)
Four coaches have won two titles in back-to-back years only:
Hank Iba (1945-46)
Phil Woolpert (1955-56)
Ed Jucker (1961-62)
Billy Donovan (2006-07)
That's the complete list of multiple title winners.
-- Rupp's first two titles (1948, 1949) were won against an eight-team NCAA field. He won his third title (1951) in the year when the field expanded to 16 teams. He won his fourth title in 1958 against a 24-team NCAA field.
Those first two titles came in a tournament that excluded many of the nation's best teams. The first AP poll came out in 1949 and that NCAA Tournament excluded No. 3 St. Louis, No. 5 Western Kentucky, No. 6 Minnesota, No. 7 Bradley, No. 8 San Francisco, No. 9 Tulane and No. 10 Bowling Green -- think if that, seven of the top 10 teams were not invited.
-- On the other hand, the selection process was much more haphazard in those early days -- the eight-team field was picked by regional selection committees who could pick whomever they wanted. That's why in 1946, UNC was picked ahead of Duke's conference champions. I've always wondered how Kentucky got the bid over 22-2 Duke in 1942 ... I'm sure the fact that Rupp was on the Region 3 selection committee had nothing to do with it (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).
Of course, that could work against him too. In 1950, Kentucky finished as SEC champs, ranked No. 3 in the nation, but did not get a bid when Rupp refused to play No. 5 N.C. State in a one-game playoff to determine the Region 3 bid.
It was the next year that the field expanded and all the major conference champions were guaranteed a bid. From that point, Kentucky had to win the SEC title to advance, which wasn't the hardest thing in the world.
I think the great argument for K is that he's been greater longer -- as hard as that is to believe, he's won his four national titles over a 20-season span (1991-2010) ... Rupp's four titles came in an 11-season span (1948-58).
K's also has 11 Final Four appearances to Rupp's 6.
K also has a 77-22 NCAA record (77.8 pct.), compared to Rupp's 30-18 record (62.5 percent).
And, obviously, early next season, K will pass Rupp on the career win list ...
Obviously, this is a Duke board and we're going to think K is greater. I'm sure Kentucky fans will argue for Rupp (indeed, before the finals, I saw K being ripped on the Kentucky boards for "only" winning three of his first 10 Final Fours ... better, I suppose, in their eyes to not get to the Final Four than to get there and not win it all).
But I think the numbers speak for themselves K>Rupp ...
Note: I actually saw it mentioned on the board and it did check it out -- K's won titles over the longest span of anybody else in history. The 20-year span between his first and last titles is longer than any multiple winner:
Wooden 10 titles in 12 years (all between 1964-76)
K 4 titles in 20 years
Rupp 4 titles in 11 years
Knight 3 titles in 12 years (1976-87)
Branch McCracken 2 titles in 14 years (1940-53)
Dean Smith 2 titles in 12 years (1982-93)
Jim Calhoun 2 titles 6 years (1999-2004)
Denny Crum 2 titles in 7 years (1980-86)
Roy Williams 2 titles in 5 years (2005-09)
Four coaches have won two titles in back-to-back years only:
Hank Iba (1945-46)
Phil Woolpert (1955-56)
Ed Jucker (1961-62)
Billy Donovan (2006-07)
That's the complete list of multiple title winners.