Rematch with Butler? [Archive]

Duvall

04-09-2010, 03:58 PM

Not to be a sore winner or anything, but I don't want to give Butler any chance to claim that they should have been the champions this year.

Who cares what they claim? It would be a good game.

Besides, it's not like beating a Duke team that lost four starters would give them a reason to claim that they should have been the champs.

And if Singler comes back, they won't beat Duke.

Relics

04-09-2010, 04:00 PM

Following the logic that we like to schedule OOC teams that resemble teams we could face in the NCAAT... bring 'em on. I would love a home and home.

tbyers11

04-09-2010, 04:06 PM

Following the logic that we like to schedule OOC teams that resemble teams we could face in the NCAAT... bring 'em on. I would love a home and home.

Yeah, I like how Duke's philosophy of playing strong "mid-major" teams in regular season OOC games to help prepare for possible 2nd round or Sweet 16 NCAA matchups payed off this season. In the national championship game :)

I would love to play a home-and-home with Butler (or as I have seen elsewhere possibly a game at Cameron and one at Conseco Fieldhouse).

alteran

04-09-2010, 04:08 PM

I'm finding it hard to see a downside.

Relics

04-09-2010, 04:08 PM

Also: Not to have visions of sugar plum fairies, but another OOC rival anno lavin-i would, as a basketball consumer, do me nicely.

hurleyfor3

04-09-2010, 04:12 PM

The thing says Stevens doesn't really want to play us again, but I'm sure he knows he has to go outside the Horizon League to get on teevee.

Butler doesn't fit the profile of our nonconference opponents too well, but would be a fantastic late-season opponent, slotted in the weekend before the second unc game. St. Johns has lived there recently, but Steve Lavin isn't worthy of us.

Channing

04-09-2010, 04:12 PM

when was the last time Duke agreed to play a mid major on their court? I may be missing something, but I can't recall. Further, it seems that, at least lately, Duke has been reluctant to schedule any road games during the preseason unless (a) they are part of a tourney (and as such are at neutral sites), (b) are in a major recruiting locale (DC, NY, LA a few years back), or (c) give a senior an opportunity to play close to home (I think we played in Portland for Dunleavy when he was just a junior, and I dont think we played close to home for Scheyer).

I hope it happens, and I hope coach K steps up to the plate. It would be great for Duke to play in one of the few venues that can give Cameron a run for its money in terms of history and overall awesomeness.

hurleyfor3

04-09-2010, 04:19 PM

when was the last time Duke agreed to play a mid major on their court? I may be missing something, but I can't recall.

We played at unc this year. Whaddya mean they're not a mid-major? They almost won the NIT!

Further, it seems that, at least lately, Duke has been reluctant to schedule any road games during the preseason unless (a) they are part of a tourney (and as such are at neutral sites), (b) are in a major recruiting locale (DC, NY, LA a few years back), or (c) give a senior an opportunity to play close to home (I think we played in Portland for Dunleavy when he was just a junior, and I dont think we played close to home for Scheyer).

We played Iowa State in Chicago (United Center) this year.

Other considerations for road games are that the game is part of some sort of Challenge, Classic and/or Shootout, or that it is played in an area with a sizeable alumni base.

We're Duke; we can dictate these kind of terms. Not to be snotty or anything... well, precisely to be snotty.

Relics

04-09-2010, 04:30 PM

when was the last time Duke agreed to play a mid major on their court?

November 1997 at Army I believe.

Channing

04-09-2010, 04:37 PM

We played at unc this year. Whaddya mean they're not a mid-major? They almost won the NIT!

We played Iowa State in Chicago (United Center) this year.

Other considerations for road games are that the game is part of some sort of Challenge, Classic and/or Shootout, or that it is played in an area with a sizeable alumni base.

We're Duke; we can dictate these kind of terms. Not to be snotty or anything... well, precisely to be snotty.

you are correct - the Iowas state game slipped my mind - that was for Jon, and Chicago is a fairly large recruiting base (if not historically for Duke - outside of Dockery).

The point is, Duke is picky with its OOC games and I just dont see us going to play at Hinckle. I would love to, but coach K just avoids playing true road games in the preseason for whatever reason.

Cameron

04-09-2010, 04:56 PM

Butler doesn't fit the profile of our nonconference opponents too well, but would be a fantastic late-season opponent, slotted in the weekend before the second unc game. St. Johns has lived there recently, but Steve Lavin isn't worthy of us.

I'm not sure why it doesn't.

Although the games were played in January, we played both Valpo and Butler in 2003 and 2004, respectively. (Valpo is obviously comparable to Butler's size and Butler is, too, I think...) So we've been down this road before.

I noticed that Darnell Archey, who drilled a few long range bombs from near half-court on us in that '03 game in Cameron off the picket fence, was an assistant coach for the Bulldogs this season. Didn't notice this until the national championship game, actually. Boy he looks like a shriveled old man now. My oh my. He also didn't look too happy when I saw him in the post-game:D

cato

04-09-2010, 04:58 PM

you are correct - the Iowas state game slipped my mind - that was for Jon, and Chicago is a fairly large recruiting base (if not historically for Duke - outside of Dockery).

And here I thought we went and played a couple of games in Indy so that Jon could play within driving distance from home.

Channing

04-09-2010, 05:07 PM

not sure the point of that post, but my point is that playing Butler, especially at Hinckle, would be a change from K's usual course of action.

DukieBoy

04-09-2010, 05:08 PM

If next year's team is going to be as good as claimed, K is going to want to test them.

This reminds me of the '92 season when Duke played Michigan in the middle of the conference season to test the team.

Why not do this on a lesser scale against a solid Butler squad at Hinkle?

I would personally love to have a game at Butler. That means I could watch the Dukies

DallasDevil

04-09-2010, 05:18 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing a neutral site game with Butler at a 2011 tournament site: maybe Charlotte (Seth's hometown), D.C. (Nolan's hometown), Newark (for Kyrie), or New Orleans (we're targeting a couple recruits in LA). Hinkle would be fun, but I think we saw this year success against good teams on the road isn't neccessarily predictive of post-season performance.

hurleyfor3

04-09-2010, 05:30 PM

This reminds me of the '92 season when Duke played Michigan in the middle of the conference season to test the team.

We played Michigan in December, as we always did with them. You may be thinking of LSU with Shaq. Near the end of the regular season, we went to Ucla.

BD80

04-09-2010, 05:34 PM

Following the logic that we like to schedule OOC teams that resemble teams we could face in the NCAAT... bring 'em on. I would love a home and home.

Ummm. I thought we scheduled mid-majors to simulate tournament games in the FIRST weekend?

There are conflicting interests in a "rematch." Butler greatly resembles Duke: small private school, and, if it is to make a step into national basketball relevance, will be competing with Duke for the same recruits. A home and home series is dangerous as it let's the wolf into Butler's home recruiting grounds and it sets up Butler for failure compared to Duke - on national TV.

I really like the idea from Duke's standpoint, particularly from Coach K's standpoint. I like the gesture of offering a hand to a similar school that does things the "right way" and to a bright young coach with a very bright future. In a sense, Coach K can pass the baton to a new generation of coaches that do it the right way. For example, should Boeheim or McMillan choose not to participate this summer with the US team, Stevens would be a great choice. When time comes for a successor to be named at Duke, it would be good for there to be a cadre of coaches from which to choose.

hudlow

04-09-2010, 05:42 PM

I bet you couldn't throw ol' Huck into that situation, dadgummit.

hud

miramar

04-09-2010, 06:06 PM

During the regular season Butler faced Minnesota (L), UCLA (W), Clemson (L, it was early), Georgetown (L), Ohio State (W), and Xavier (W), and Syracuse (W), Kansas State (W), Michigan State (W), and Duke (L) in the post-season.

They are a worthy opponent and I would look forward to a home and home series with them. Hinkle Fieldhouse may not be Cameron, but it is a National Historic Landmark and has hosted the Pan American Games and even roller derby...

The fans would love this game and so would the TV networks and Nike, so it can happen.

sagegrouse

04-09-2010, 06:12 PM

In addition to the competitive aspects, any game like this needs to be a money-maker. Duke has only a limited number of games. The purpose of away or neutral non-conference games is to attract revenue through gate or TV. The TV should be good, but I would expect to see MSG or some other large arena for the game.

sagegrouse

dyedwab

04-09-2010, 07:05 PM

not sure the point of that post, but my point is that playing Butler, especially at Hinckle, would be a change from K's usual course of action.

While this is currently true, we used to play highly ranked teams on their home floor a lot. in the 90's we played at Oklahoma, Arizona, UCLA, in 1988 we played at Allen Fieldhouse....

and as a fan, I wish we played more of these. I LOVE intersectional matchups in on-campus gyms. especially old school gyms like Hinkle.

PLEASE set this up, Duke hoops. It'd be fun :-)

Nugget

04-09-2010, 07:08 PM

You definitely could throw Carolina into this kind of situation. Every season he's played a true road game against a "mid-major" or power conference teams of the type we only seem to agree to play at neutral sites.

2009-2010
at College of Charleston

2008-2009
at UCSB (granted this was really a stopover on their way to Maui)
at Nevada

2007-2008
at Penn
at Rutgers

2006-2007
at St. Louis

Whatever all the other arguments there might be about the need to make money off of non-conference games or preparation for "neutral" tournament games (by the way, how "neutral" were the Duke-Baylor and Duke-Butler games? Or, the Duke-Indiana 2002, or Duke-Kentucky 1998 games, for the matter), we should make an exception and play Butler at Hinkle in a true home and home, involving 2 of the 5 best venues in all of college basketball.

BD80

04-09-2010, 07:13 PM

You definitely could throw Carolina into this kind of situation. Every season he's played a true road game against a "mid-major" or power conference teams ...

2009-2010
at College of Charleston ...

Well played. Doubt there is even a drop of blood on the blade.

Duvall

04-09-2010, 07:29 PM

While this is currently true, we used to play highly ranked teams on their home floor a lot. in the 90's we played at Oklahoma, Arizona, UCLA, in 1988 we played at Allen Fieldhouse....

...in 2010 we played at Wisconsin and Georgetown.

hedevil

04-09-2010, 09:39 PM

For me it's simple. As a fan, I want to see these teams play again just to see where the new Duke team stands against Butler vs the past one. I won't get into whether it's doable or not, I just want to see it. :D

hurley1

04-09-2010, 10:52 PM

4decadedukie

04-10-2010, 06:19 AM

On the insistent advice of my cardiologist, my attorney is now seeking an injunction to prevent this . . .

moonpie23

04-10-2010, 10:33 AM

there's a somewhat serious downside for Butler......if they play the same duke team again and win, Positive....if they play a 4-starters leaving duke team and win - slightly less Positive...

if they play either team and LOSE - serious negative......in fact, if they played either duke team again and lost handily, it's a serious blowback on the progress of the program...

that being said, i bet brad stevens wants the shot...

miramar

04-10-2010, 11:10 AM

I couldn't get the DBR link to work, but I guess this is the relevant info:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/04/10/430711/duke-butler-rematch-in-the-works.html

SCMatt33

04-10-2010, 02:15 PM

I couldn't get the DBR link to work, but I guess this is the relevant info:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/04/10/430711/duke-butler-rematch-in-the-works.html

I was just thinking this before it was posted. I would love to see a home-and-home at Hinkle and Cameron, but this smelled an awful lot like an NYC type game from the time I heard about it. Time for Gonzaga to move over I guess.

weezie

04-10-2010, 03:11 PM

i bet brad stevens wants the shot...

For sure....lots of big bucks will be flowing Butler's way now.

riksmits

04-11-2010, 03:55 PM

there's a somewhat serious downside for Butler......

lol i hope this is a level...if not get over yourself.

There is no downside for Butler if they play Duke and lose or win. It's going to be the biggest game on their schedule and won't really hurt them if they get beat.

Cameron

04-11-2010, 04:06 PM

CameronBornAndBred

04-11-2010, 05:06 PM

I bet if we did a home and home, and the first game was in Hinkle, it would one of the hightest rated regular season games ever. Both teams would get plenty of cash just from ESPN or CBS.

DukieBoy

04-11-2010, 05:30 PM

I bet if we did a home and home, and the first game was in Hinkle, it would one of the hightest rated regular season games ever. Both teams would get plenty of cash just from ESPN or CBS.

Put it on CBS simply so we can have Gus Johnson call the game

LSanders

04-11-2010, 05:56 PM

Chuck Allen's article (linked on the DBR front page) is an excellent tribute to the Bulldogs. I really liked his comparisons and his closing:

Wherever we may play, Duke and Butler share common bonds--two smaller private schools that play in old traditional gyms, recruit honestly, value education, and play the game the right way.

As for that national championship that eluded you by inches, just tell Jimmy Chitwood to keep shooting. I know the script. I know how the story ends.

Eventually, the last shot goes in.

Well said. K has always made the distinction between coaches who cobble together teams and coaches who build programs. Stevens clearly falls in the latter group. If he stays and builds the kind of program it appears he's capable of building, Butler may one day be as reviled as the Blue Devils ... An odd but fitting tribute. It'll be nice to have company. :)

devildownunder

04-12-2010, 12:26 AM

Yeah, I can't really see a downside for Butler here. When Gonzaga got blasted by us in MSG, did that kill their program or take it down a notch? Not at all. If anything, Gonzaga is respected even more because of their willingness to take on the big boys, anytime, anywhere.

That's true but they were forced into it. Dickau's last year (i believe it was is last) they had a great record but got stuck with a 6 seed because they had a lousy schedule. There was a lot of howling about it on ESPN because the Bulldogs were ranked in the top 10 at the time but I agreed with the seeding and they got knocked off by an 11 seed in the first round, so the committee came out looking great. After that, Mark Few started taking on all comers and Gonzaga began to legitimate earn its higher seeding.

This, to me, is a happy tail. I get very upset when these "mid-major" teams cry foul over not getting in or getting lower seedings when they haven't played anyone. Too many just like to sit back and feast on cupcakes and then complain that they can't get games if things don't work out in their favor. But they can get games. Butler can schedule plenty of power programs right now, if they want. At least, I don't see why not. If it turns out they're trying and getting shunned, then I'll retract the comment but it's not fair to demand that some teams schedule tough OOC but then let other teams get away with weak scheduling because they're "cute."

devildownunder

04-12-2010, 12:29 AM

Chuck Allen's article (linked on the DBR front page) is an excellent tribute to the Bulldogs. I really liked his comparisons and his closing:

Well said. K has always made the distinction between coaches who cobble together teams and coaches who build programs. Stevens clearly falls in the latter group. If he stays and builds the kind of program it appears he's capable of building, Butler may one day be as reviled as the Blue Devils ... An odd but fitting tribute. It'll be nice to have company. :)

Stevens has done a good job at Butler but he didn't exactly build the program -- at least not as head coach. He joined the staff in 2000-01 but became head coach only in 2007. Butler was already the established power in the Horizon league by then.

http://www.butlersports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040407aab.html

devildownunder

04-12-2010, 12:30 AM

I bet if we did a home and home, and the first game was in Hinkle, it would one of the hightest rated regular season games ever. Both teams would get plenty of cash just from ESPN or CBS.

The first should be in Cameron. Butler already had a home game in this series.

:)

baby-face dawkins

04-28-2010, 09:44 PM

I don't know if its already been said, but twitter talk between Nolan and Shelvin Mack says Duke and Butler will rematch next season in NJ...could just be smoke though.

twitter.com/ndotsmitty

camion

04-28-2010, 09:50 PM

The first should be in Cameron. Butler already had a home game in this series.

:)

I think they should reciprocate with a home game for us in MSG.

I'll take your :) and raise it. :):)

House G

04-28-2010, 10:31 PM

I bet you couldn't throw ol' Huck into that situation, dadgummit.

hud

I thought his name was ol' Roy!
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/68/11/31/57/0068113157397_500X500.jpg

roywhite

04-28-2010, 10:41 PM

I don't know if its already been said, but twitter talk between Nolan and Shelvin Mack says Duke and Butler will rematch next season in NJ...could just be smoke though.

twitter.com/ndotsmitty

Does Nolan know everybody...or what!

Great smile, great personality, great kid...wonder what he gets into after his playing days are done? Coaching? Or serve somewhere in the Battier administration?

papa whiskey

04-29-2010, 07:52 AM

Does Nolan know everybody...or what!

Great smile, great personality, great kid...wonder what he gets into after his playing days are done? Coaching? Or serve somewhere in the Battier administration?

BINGO! However, Shane has no shot at any office other than adult film star of the year unless he is clean shaven. ;) I do agree that Nolan would be a great coach and teacher of young men. There just seems to be something special about him as a wonderful human being.