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DevilHorns
04-08-2010, 11:10 AM
Keys to the Offseason:

(My rank list outside of if Kyle stays/goes on what determines how good we will be at the beginning of next year)

1. Mason Plumlee - Bulk up. Improve offensive and defensive decision making including when to shoot (concentrate on post-up offense skills), how to help on D, how to limit fouls on D. He has a natural ability to see passing lanes both as a recipient and as a passer and that should pay HUGE dividends with Kyrie Irving coming in next year.
2. Andre Dawkins (if Kyle goes) - Improve help defense, man-on-man defense (including lateral speed), and general defensive awareness. Will need to be able to play long minutes without being a defensive liability. Work on penetration offense, ie, decision making when driving the ball to the hoop and movement on offense.
3. Miles Plumlee - Imrpove defensive decision making and post-up defense (how to guard without fouling). Work on post-up offense and receiving the ball in the post.
4. Ryan Kelly - Bulk up. We will need him playing the 4 now behind one of the Plumlees. At his frame he will not have a good ACC portion of the season if he doesn't increase his mass no matter how skilled he is.
5. Kyrie Irving - Bulk up (some). Improve man-on-man defense. Lay foundation for communication with guards in different sets (Nolan, Seth, or both in 3 guard set) as well as bigs.


This list obviously doesn't cover everything (I honestly don't know what to expect from Seth-- though from comments generally I'm expecting a big time player) or Carrick (foul prone is likely the only big worry for me on him at this point, don't know too much about his game).

From this list I think I am definitelly Bigs biased, but in my eyes, thats the key to next year. Will they be able to fill Z's and Lance's shoes. Those are huge shoes to fill (literally and figuratively).

CDu
04-08-2010, 11:25 AM
Good thoughts. Basically, all of the returning freshmen and sophomores and incoming players will need to continue to work on understanding defensive effort, positioning, and help defense. That was a huge strength of the guys leaving.

The other thing I'll add is that it would seem that everyone needs to get ready to push tempo and play aggressive defense. This team is going to play differently than it did last year due to the differences in personnel. I think we'll run more and I think we'll apply more pressure on defense.

Aside from that, my comments on/additions to your list:

1. I'm less concerned about Mason bulking up. He's pretty big already. I'm more interested in the second part, which is how he develops his game. Will he get more comfortable in creating for himself when given the ball on the block or on the wing? This year, he was largely a "catch-and-finish" guy rather than a guy you handed the ball and said "make something happen." Based on the discussion of his skills coming in, I hope he progresses in this regard.
2. Miles: work on that jumpshot, work on defensive footwork and understanding of positioning on offense. He just needs to get to a point where he isn't trying to rely solely on his leaping ability to make things happen. If he can learn to be in the right spot, life will be much easier for him. And his athleticism will make more things happen for him.
3. Dawkins: work on decision-making with the basketball and confidence/ability to handle the ball.
4. Kelly: get stronger and get more comfortable with the speed/strength of the college game. He's got the skills and basketball IQ to be an impact player. He just needs to catch up phsyically.
5. Smith: assume the leadership role (even moreso than he already has). It's going to be his team next year if Singler goes, and he's going to need to help the younger/new guys understand what the team needs to succeed.

Matches
04-08-2010, 11:27 AM
I'm looking for Mason in particular to make a big leap over the summer. He will almost certainly be expected to be a starter and major contributor next season. This season we saw flashes of what he can do but he wasn't able to put it together for long stretches. IMO the injury set him back quite a bit, and with a summer of work he should be poised to break out next season.

JohnGalt
04-08-2010, 11:28 AM
Conditioning. They better be ready to RUN.

ReformedAggie
04-08-2010, 11:31 AM
also resist the urge to ride motorcycles, unicycles, drive sports cars past any known speed limit, run with the Bulls in Spain, bungee jump at Victoria Falls, or date any woman who has Jesse James home number :)

MChambers
04-08-2010, 11:33 AM
I think that both Plumlees need to improve their shooting a little (Mason more so than Miles), both from the floor and the line. Dawkins needs to speed up his release.

theAlaskanBear
04-08-2010, 11:57 AM
I have to quibble with the OP's suggestions for Andre. Defensively, the OP is spot on, but offensively, I think we are underselling him. There were times, especially earlier in the year,when Dre was offensively dynamic. He would hit the three, hit long twos to keep the defenders guessing, and drive to the basket with good results.

I think as the season went on, Andre became constrained by his role as a purely 3-pt shooter, and also lost his confidence during the middle part of the season. Plus, tbh, at times this team blatantly ignored Andre when he was wide open. What ever the reason, they werent good at getting him the ball.

So if he works on his defense, and becomes more assertive, I think the offensive skills are already there, as we saw glimpses of them this year. Of course, it never hurts to improve ALL aspects of your game ;)

Everything else you guys said, I pretty much agree. Nolan needs to learn to be a better distributer. Sometimes this season he got tunnel vision of tried to force things offensively too much. I remember a lot of over dribbling, and a few bad shots, before the tournament.

Duke is definitely going the play the passing lanes this year. Seth Curry has 48 steals as a freshman, Nolan had 45 this year, a big improvement over last considering our style. Felix had 38 steals for SI last year.

Greg_Newton
04-08-2010, 12:36 PM
I'm pretty excited to see what Andre can do with a full summer with Duke's facilities and strength coaches. His body was somewhat college-ready when he got here last fall, but it was more natural bulk than lean muscle. He's probably never been on a weight training program anywhere near as serious as Duke's. He's got the frame and athleticism to be a stud athlete... if he can can rework his body and become a chiseled athlete, it would make him so much more effective.

Mason, Miles and Carrick are the three biggest wildcards to me. Those are three guys who are off the charts physical specimens, but we really don't know what we're going to get from them next year. Cautious optimism is my attitude towards them.

Ryan certainly needs to bulk up, but he seems to put on weight fairly easily... I don't see that being an issue, especially given what Miles did in the Duke weight room last summer. I think he'll be a unique asset off the bench next year.

I think our expectations re: Seth, Kyrie, Josh, Tyler will be fairly on target. They've all been in high-level systems, and are all fairly complete players. I don't see any of the 4 struggling too much with ACC competition, and Seth and Kyrie have shown themselves to be elite talent relative to top competition.

And then there's Nolan, who K said may have an even bigger jump this summer than he did last summer??

Exciting stuff!

wgl1228
04-08-2010, 12:48 PM
What player will take on the role as the head of the evil empire and be pelted with FU chants next year?

Spam Filter
04-08-2010, 01:04 PM
The key will be who's going to be the leader on this team?

I assume Singler's going be playing for pay in the NBA, and Nolan is more of the quiet lead by example guy, not really a vocal leader.

Somebody is going to have to be the leader.

whereinthehellami
04-08-2010, 01:07 PM
I have to quibble with the OP's suggestions for Andre. Defensively, the OP is spot on, but offensively, I think we are underselling him. There were times, especially earlier in the year,when Dre was offensively dynamic. He would hit the three, hit long twos to keep the defenders guessing, and drive to the basket with good results.

I think as the season went on, Andre became constrained by his role as a purely 3-pt shooter, and also lost his confidence during the middle part of the season. Plus, tbh, at times this team blatantly ignored Andre when he was wide open. What ever the reason, they werent good at getting him the ball.

IIRC earlier in the year a broadcaster said during a game that some of the starters were suprised at the many different ways Andre scored the ball during practice. i think he rightly differed more this past year. I can't wait to see how he develops over this next off-season.

brevity
04-08-2010, 01:22 PM
That's a lot of keys. Fortunately, we have a keychain.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2189/keychain.jpg

Saratoga2
04-08-2010, 01:22 PM
Just mentioning the areas of concern with the returning players highlights where things need to improve.

Someone already mentioned that Nolan tended to overdribble with the ball. To some extent, it appeared that Duke was spreading the floor and taking the clock down, with the intent of Nolan beating his man and getting a good shot from in close. In reality, it often resulted in a desperation shot with the clock running out. With Kyrie and Set, there should be no need to replicate that offensive strategy in the coming season.

Defensive coverage by Miles and Mason seemed to be negatively impacted by their reluctance to sprint back on defense. Too often, you saw them jogging back and trailing the play. Coach K recognized that and took them out, but at least Miles was still doing it during the final game.

The idea of pressing opponents may be tried again. The past seasons team tried it but was burned by teams passing upcourt on us and getting easy 3 on 2s or the like. Maybe this team will be better suited to press.

We didn't have many drive and dish situations compared to previous years but our personnel next season will favor this approach. Quick and skilled guards and good perimeter shooters.

The Plumlees, Kelly and Dawkins have the most to gain over the summer and they need to work hard on their games to make the big jump to starting players, or at least players entrusted with significant PT.

COYS
04-08-2010, 01:29 PM
We didn't have many drive and dish situations compared to previous years but our personnel next season will favor this approach. Quick and skilled guards and good perimeter shooters.


This is definitely true, but I hope that we keep some of the principles of the motion offense and, with Mason a year better, utilize his passing ability in the high post and at the top of the key. I think we can have a very versatile team, next season, and I expect us to show a few different looks in our half court offense.

northernduke
04-08-2010, 01:57 PM
This is definitely true, but I hope that we keep some of the principles of the motion offense and, with Mason a year better, utilize his passing ability in the high post and at the top of the key. I think we can have a very versatile team, next season, and I expect us to show a few different looks in our half court offense.

It'd be great to see us use Mason similarly to how G'town used Monroe against us. Put him up at the top of the key one-on-one and let him go to the basket. He showed flashes where he looked very capable of breaking another big down off the dribble. Would be great to see him get some of those looks during game action.

COYS
04-08-2010, 02:01 PM
It'd be great to see us use Mason similarly to how G'town used Monroe against us. Put him up at the top of the key one-on-one and let him go to the basket. He showed flashes where he looked very capable of breaking another big down off the dribble. Would be great to see him get some of those looks during game action.

Definitely. The best thing is that I think we will have more versatility than G'Town this past season. We can run those looks, but we can also spread the floor with a lineup with Curry, Irving, Smith, Mason, and Kelly (or, we could even go with Dawkins, here). All of these players are comfortable putting the ball on the floor (I expect Kelly to be much better) and can shoot (if not from three, at least from 18 feet). I'd love to see opposing bigs having to respect Kelly on the perimeter, giving Mason the chance to beat opposing centers on drives or allow our guards to slice through the defense. Sprinkle in some spectacular fast break offense and we definitely have the potential to have an offensive juggernaut next season that can hopefully approach the efficiency of this year's team.

Exiled_Devil
04-08-2010, 02:04 PM
What player will take on the role as the head of the evil empire and be pelted with FU chants next year?

Interesting question. We won't have a white guard, so there goes the opposing fans #1 choice for the last 9 years. (Redick, Paulus, Scheyer)

Maybe Mason, as he throws down in sick ways. I expect whining about his under-the-basket reverse dunks.

DevilHorns
04-08-2010, 03:06 PM
I have to quibble with the OP's suggestions for Andre. Defensively, the OP is spot on, but offensively, I think we are underselling him. There were times, especially earlier in the year,when Dre was offensively dynamic. He would hit the three, hit long twos to keep the defenders guessing, and drive to the basket with good results.

I think as the season went on, Andre became constrained by his role as a purely 3-pt shooter, and also lost his confidence during the middle part of the season. Plus, tbh, at times this team blatantly ignored Andre when he was wide open. What ever the reason, they werent good at getting him the ball.


You are definitely right that Andre did have a better showing offensively earlier in the season. I don't mean to sell him short, and I realize his role in the year was constrained due to a variety of things. My generalization regarding him was that on the occasions when he drove (more so against ACC play or tough opponents), he was more likely to be called for an offensive charge or more likely to make an ill-advised play than many/most of the other Duke players on the floor at that time (maybe a dish out for a high % shot could've been better, but he would just barrel down with the mission of getting 2). I am speaking in generalizations obviously, sometimes he was definitely making good offensive moves penetrating with the ball. I think I am dead on with his movement in the offensive scheme. I am not sure if he was doing exactly as he was told, and it surely could have been since the guy has limitless range, but I think he can do a better job of getting open instead of floating on the perimeter waiting for the ball to come to him.

And I know I don't have to say this, but I am the biggest Andre fan. I'm going back for alumni weekend and if by chance I see him on the quad, I'm going to flat out tell him that we could not have won it without you, I hope he knows that, and I hope greater Duke fandom knows that. Though I am sure he had bigger hopes as a contributor throughout the year, his pure grit in hitting those 3's against Baylor will stick out in my mind forever. The guy is a winner.

NashvilleDevil
04-08-2010, 03:10 PM
This doesn't have to deal with player development but how this team handles being the hunted will be interesting. Sure teams are always going to get after it when playing Duke but next year will be different since they are the defending champs and they lose the 3 seniors and maybe Singler.

Kedsy
04-08-2010, 03:16 PM
I have to quibble with the OP's suggestions for Andre. Defensively, the OP is spot on, but offensively, I think we are underselling him. There were times, especially earlier in the year,when Dre was offensively dynamic. He would hit the three, hit long twos to keep the defenders guessing, and drive to the basket with good results.

I think as the season went on, Andre became constrained by his role as a purely 3-pt shooter, and also lost his confidence during the middle part of the season. Plus, tbh, at times this team blatantly ignored Andre when he was wide open. What ever the reason, they werent good at getting him the ball.

So if he works on his defense, and becomes more assertive, I think the offensive skills are already there, as we saw glimpses of them this year. Of course, it never hurts to improve ALL aspects of your game ;)

I agree with you and the OP that defense is the area where Andre needs to continue improving.

On offense, Andre has great shooting form, and the ability to get to the basket. He can certainly work on his ballhandling, but the biggest offensive improvement he needs to make is to move without the ball. In my opinion, the main reason he didn't get the ball so often is he never moved after he picked his spot. If you have the ball, it's a lot easier to see a moving player than it is to see a guy who's standing still. Plus, the defense knows exactly where the stationary player is standing, and lies in wait for the pass, meaning he may have appeared wide open but really wasn't.

Kyrie, Nolan, and Seth are going to require a great deal of defensive attention from our opponents. If Andre can move without the ball, catch it and either shoot or drive from there, he will be a very dangerous and productive player.

Kedsy
04-08-2010, 03:24 PM
It'd be great to see us use Mason similarly to how G'town used Monroe against us. Put him up at the top of the key one-on-one and let him go to the basket. He showed flashes where he looked very capable of breaking another big down off the dribble. Would be great to see him get some of those looks during game action.

With the backcourt we're going to have next year, I kind of doubt we'll see too much of Mason going one-on-one from the top of the key. But I guess you never know.

Devil07
04-08-2010, 03:26 PM
The developments of Dre and the Plumlee's are definitely important for our growth next year, but I personally will be very interested to see how Ryan Kelly develops over the summer. If I remember correctly, he had mono last summer, which set him back a bit. After having the luxury of interior depth this year, I'm really hoping to see Kelly earn some playing time next year. If he can have a really solid offseason and work on his strength and quickness then I think he would add a really useful dimension to our team next year. He has a unique blend of size and skills which with the perimeter players we have could make for a very dangerous spread attack. It was clear that the physicality and the speed of the game this year were a bit beyond him, so I'm really hoping that a solid summer of work will catch him up. Unlike this year, we'll definitely need him to be a consistent presence next year.

gumbomoop
04-08-2010, 03:37 PM
The key will be who's going to be the leader on this team?

I assume Singler's going be playing for pay in the NBA, and Nolan is more of the quiet lead by example guy, not really a vocal leader.

Somebody is going to have to be the leader.

NS by a mile. I'm pretty confident he knows he needs to mentor KI in particular. My impression is that Nolan this season was not so quiet. In his first 2 years, I'd have said that, but not this season, when, IMO, his natural mischievous personality showed itself, in occasional smack talk, for example. Nolan looked far too passive his first 2 years, but he changed into an assertive-enough guy this year. He already knows what K will tell him: "Teach Kyrie."

IMO, KI will take to NS's team-lead very easily, as KI has a mischievous streak, too, as evidenced in McD videos. KI will definitely be the lead guard, but he'll not mind at all deferring to NS as the team leader. These are bright guys, playful. I expect the whole team to have fun with each other.

No egos. Like this year, only with a substantially revised cast. If true, btw, a lot of Duke's success this year, and potentially next 2-3, will be based on no-ego solidarity. This is a program to be deliriously happy with, and proud of. We, the Entitled Duke Nation, sometimes forget how amazingly fortunate we are.

No egos and NS by a mile.

CDu
04-08-2010, 03:39 PM
With the backcourt we're going to have next year, I kind of doubt we'll see too much of Mason going one-on-one from the top of the key. But I guess you never know.

I don't know. I could see us doing quite a bit of the spread approach, with Mason or Kelly going to the top of the key and either looking to make an entry pass or create off the dribble. In that scenario, Miles (or the other of Mason/Kelly) would set up in the post.

I don't think this would be the only offense. But given the skill sets of the bigs we'll have next year, I definitely think we'll see a fair amount of plays in which the big attacks from the perimeter.

Given that Mason and Kelly are both such good passers and we'll have such a great group of shooters, I could see us doing a lot of different things with our bigs.

DevilHorns
04-08-2010, 03:45 PM
I don't know. I could see us doing quite a bit of the spread approach, with Mason or Kelly going to the top of the key and either looking to make an entry pass or create off the dribble. In that scenario, Miles (or the other of Mason/Kelly) would set up in the post.

I don't think this would be the only offense. But given the skill sets of the bigs we'll have next year, I definitely think we'll see a fair amount of plays in which the big attacks from the perimeter.

Given that Mason and Kelly are both such good passers and we'll have such a great group of shooters, I could see us doing a lot of different things with our bigs.

Just thinking about this gets my incredibly excited. Kelly has good 3 point depth (remember he won the McDs all-american 3 point contest), Mason as we all know can dribble the ball amazingly well for a big guy (but at times he can be reckless with the ball in this scenario), and Miles has proven to most doubters that he has lengthy 2 point range.

With improvements in the offseason, this adds an incredible dynamic to our team. Given our matchups, we can stretch the D outside with our capable bigs and an arguably better distribution system for quick streaking points with Kyrie and Seth. If we need to hit them down low post-up, I am sure another summer to prepare these guys can shape them into more traditional big guy roles.

Someone earlier posted that Mason doesn't have to really bulk up anymore. I disagree. I think another 10-15 lbs could really add to his frame. Bulking helps in rebounding and obviously in post-up game. I think Mason could really dominate players a la Boozer if he bulks up.

DevilHorns
04-08-2010, 03:50 PM
NS by a mile. I'm pretty confident he knows he needs to mentor KI in particular. My impression is that Nolan this season was not so quiet. In his first 2 years, I'd have said that, but not this season, when, IMO, his natural mischievous personality showed itself, in occasional smack talk, for example. Nolan looked far too passive his first 2 years, but he changed into an assertive-enough guy this year. He already knows what K will tell him: "Teach Kyrie."

IMO, KI will take to NS's team-lead very easily, as KI has a mischievous streak, too, as evidenced in McD videos. KI will definitely be the lead guard, but he'll not mind at all deferring to NS as the team leader. These are bright guys, playful. I expect the whole team to have fun with each other.

No egos. Like this year, only with a substantially revised cast. If true, btw, a lot of Duke's success this year, and potentially next 2-3, will be based on no-ego solidarity. This is a program to be deliriously happy with, and proud of. We, the Entitled Duke Nation, sometimes forget how amazingly fortunate we are.

No egos and NS by a mile.

Agreed. Nolan has emerged as a natural leader. Remember in the Georgia Tech game when G. Rice Jr went all technical on Scheyer? Nolan was there, ready to dissolve the situation and keep heads under control. (same could be said for the situation in the Baylor game). I do not see Nolan doing this the year before as a sophomore. Nolan is ready for this. Players follow him naturally, and he has an incredibly cool head on the court.

Cockabeau
04-08-2010, 03:53 PM
For Kyrie- I would just let him play his game. K said it best that he doesn't want to mess this kid up. Let him make his mistakes.

Andre Dawkins-Improve lateral quickness. Improve ball handling.

Mason-Lets be honest, the kid just needs seasoning. This kid is good.

Miles-Just show more emotion out on the court. Please be strong with the ball and learn to play with physicality. You are a POWER foward.

Nolan-We love you.

Singler-We love you

Carrick- Please pattern your game after Bryon Mouton. An intangibles guy with unreal athleticism. Look how good Cory Brewer turned out....

CDu
04-08-2010, 03:56 PM
Someone earlier posted that Mason doesn't have to really bulk up anymore. I disagree. I think another 10-15 lbs could really add to his frame. Bulking helps in rebounding and obviously in post-up game. I think Mason could really dominate players a la Boozer if he bulks up.

I was the one who said he didn't need to bulk up. And my reasoning is that there are much more important things for him to do than get bigger. I don't think his issues this year had anything to do with strength. Thus, it wasn't priority number 1 for him in my view.

Now, IF he develops all the other aspects of his game, then maybe adding bulk could make him even more awesome. But adding bulk won't turn him into a dominant player like Boozer unless he progresses in other areas. And on top of that, I think he can become a dominant player without adding the bulk.

JohnGalt
04-08-2010, 03:57 PM
Just thinking about this gets my incredibly excited. Kelly has good 3 point depth (remember he won the McDs all-american 3 point contest), Mason as we all know can dribble the ball amazingly well for a big guy (but at times he can be reckless with the ball in this scenario), and Miles has proven to most doubters that he has lengthy 2 point range.

Remember also, Larry Drew won the contest the year before.

Also, describing Mason's dribbling as "amazingly well" is a bit of an overstatement. Eventually? Perhaps. Now? Eh, I'm not sure I'd say he dribbles "amazingly well."

CDu
04-08-2010, 04:03 PM
Remember also, Larry Drew won the contest the year before.

And he shot prettyy well from 3pt range for UNC. He was a 35% 3pt shooter on the season. While I agree that performance isn't proof of good shooting range, it's not like Drew wasn't a good 3pt shooter for them.


Also, describing Mason's dribbling as "amazingly well" is a bit of an overstatement. Eventually? Perhaps. Now? Eh, I'm not sure I'd say he dribbles "amazingly well."

I agree here as well. I think he's an amazing athlete for his size. And I think he has the ability to be a really good ballhandler and passer for his size. But I wouldn't call his dribbling skill amazing right now, even for his size. This is semantics though. I think we can all agree that he has the tools.

DevilHorns
04-08-2010, 04:12 PM
Definitely semantics. When I say he dribbles amazingly well I'm talking about just that.. not the implication that when he is cometing down the floor he's making necessarily the best moves with the ball (dishing accordingly, not penetrating blindly and being called for a charge, etc).

I still think Mason will only become dominant if he bulks up. I think he can become incredibly good with the same frame after improvements in his offensive skills in general. By dominant I mean a matchup nightmare for any team we play.

Eckster
04-08-2010, 07:19 PM
My key for the off season is to upgrade my TV to perhaps 3-D version so I can watch Duke win the national championship in 2011 in the proper fashion. I'll let Coach K worry about the players. He seems to know what he's doing.;)

northernduke
04-08-2010, 08:26 PM
With improvements in the offseason, this adds an incredible dynamic to our team. Given our matchups, we can stretch the D outside with our capable bigs...

Remember the Delaware State game in the first round of the 2005 NCAA tournament? Remember Shav having to go one-on-one with his man at the top of the key and sometimes even beyond the arc? I don't recall who the Delaware State player was and if he was a true post player or played on the wing, but I'd love to be able to turn the tables and exploit our competition like that.

And I would in no way expect this to be our focal point on offense -- I don't know what that will be yet. But it could be an exciting component given the players we will have.

greybeard
04-08-2010, 09:02 PM
I should have asked for special dispensation from Jumbo before posting this, but the dude's disappeared. I'm thinking a mild heart attack. But, I'm bursting so here goes.

The key to next season lies with SOCCER. Miles and Mason got to put the big roundball down and get out on the pitch often with Duke soccer players, men or women, and kick it around. Learn some basic techniques with both feet, stopping the ball, stopping it with direction, kicking with the inside and outside of both feet, dribbling the ball, using the whole body. It'd take a couple hours a day to develop a working repetoire.

Then they should hang out with soccer players and play small sided games--they will have a million of them which will grow the Plumlees' minds and open the possibilities of the possible when it comes to footwork and balance beyond their wildest, and any expert basketball or physical trainers', wildest imagination.

Somebody please forwarn Jumob of this and tell him I would've asked. Listened, that's another matter, but thankfully it didn't come to that. :rolleyes:

ZJDUBYA
04-08-2010, 09:09 PM
W/O a doubt I think the key is Ryan Kelly, especially if Singler leaves. I am pretty sure the Plumlees, Dawkins, and Curry will go nowhere but up. Kelly if he reaches his potential takes us to the next level. Irving i believe is a cant miss(knock on wood).

JohnGalt
04-08-2010, 09:14 PM
Greybeard! You can't use words like 'pitch' and call it soccer...footie suffices, not soccer. Anyhow, interesting post nonetheless.

COYS
04-08-2010, 10:39 PM
I don't know. I could see us doing quite a bit of the spread approach, with Mason or Kelly going to the top of the key and either looking to make an entry pass or create off the dribble. In that scenario, Miles (or the other of Mason/Kelly) would set up in the post.

I don't think this would be the only offense. But given the skill sets of the bigs we'll have next year, I definitely think we'll see a fair amount of plays in which the big attacks from the perimeter.

Given that Mason and Kelly are both such good passers and we'll have such a great group of shooters, I could see us doing a lot of different things with our bigs.

I completely agree. I also think we'll need this look to make sure our halfcourt offense doesn't become stagnate. If we're having a rough game shooting from outside or if the opposing defense is cutting off our dribble penetration, we're going to need other ways to make the offense work. Running a big in the high post (mason or ryan) and then having the other big in the low post setting screens for our guards or even clearing out to leave space under the basket might be a good way to open up a defense. It would also be a great way to beat a tough zone defense. We've got bigs with great passing ability so I think it would be a waste not to give them a few opportunities per game to run the offense through them.

tecumseh
04-09-2010, 12:24 AM
I think you guys are a little hard on Andre. The adjustment to college is hard enough especially for someone not fully prepared for the academic rigors of Duke or structure and competitiveness of Duke basketball and throw in having your sister die. On a stress scale of one to ten this is eleven.

It was a tough year that he struggled through and honestly I am not sure the coaching staff knew how to deal with him (how much do you ride or yell at a kid who just lost his sister?) Coach K says all freshman get knocked back coming to college and he got knocked back hard.

I think we see a totally new and great player over the next two years.

MChambers
04-09-2010, 07:50 AM
I should have asked for special dispensation from Jumbo before posting this, but the dude's disappeared. I'm thinking a mild heart attack. But, I'm bursting so here goes.

The key to next season lies with SOCCER. Miles and Mason got to put the big roundball down and get out on the pitch often with Duke soccer players, men or women, and kick it around. Learn some basic techniques with both feet, stopping the ball, stopping it with direction, kicking with the inside and outside of both feet, dribbling the ball, using the whole body. It'd take a couple hours a day to develop a working repetoire.

Then they should hang out with soccer players and play small sided games--they will have a million of them which will grow the Plumlees' minds and open the possibilities of the possible when it comes to footwork and balance beyond their wildest, and any expert basketball or physical trainers', wildest imagination.

Somebody please forwarn Jumob of this and tell him I would've asked. Listened, that's another matter, but thankfully it didn't come to that. :rolleyes:

1. Will it organize their pelvises?

2. Can we find a coach who can teach them soccer without putting undue pressures on their knee ligaments?

3. I think we went a whole season without any soccer postings, and Duke did pretty well. You want to jinx that?

Saratoga2
04-09-2010, 08:34 AM
The developments of Dre and the Plumlee's are definitely important for our growth next year, but I personally will be very interested to see how Ryan Kelly develops over the summer. If I remember correctly, he had mono last summer, which set him back a bit. After having the luxury of interior depth this year, I'm really hoping to see Kelly earn some playing time next year. If he can have a really solid offseason and work on his strength and quickness then I think he would add a really useful dimension to our team next year. He has a unique blend of size and skills which with the perimeter players we have could make for a very dangerous spread attack. It was clear that the physicality and the speed of the game this year were a bit beyond him, so I'm really hoping that a solid summer of work will catch him up. Unlike this year, we'll definitely need him to be a consistent presence next year.

I would have said that Kelly was not as effective as the guys ahead of him in the lineup, but I think he would have had a lot of minutes on many teams in NCAA ball. My conclusion is the same though, Kelly does have to work on his strength and other aspects of his game to make the kind of impact I think he is capable of.

davekay1971
04-09-2010, 09:56 AM
I'm going to assume that Kyle is going to make the jump to the NBA, based largely on some of the great input I've seen on DBR. With that in mind, I'm still ridiculously excited for next year. And I bet Coach K is absolutely salivating at the challenge and opportunity to develop this team.

For the guys we have coming back, here's what we need to see

1) Nolan: He's going to be the senior leader. This year he stepped up and showed what he's capable of. But there was still Jon as a senior and Kyle as a superstar and Nolan never really had to take the job of being THE team leader. That's his job as of right now.

2) The Plumlees: I expect those guys saw what Lance and Zoubs brought to the team, both in game and in practice. How could you not be motivated to step up and bring the same toughness, rebounding, and selflessness to the team now that they're gone? I absolutely believe that they'll show up in November fit and motivated to dominate the paint for Duke every game. Mason, in addition, clearly has the talent to be an offensive threat and matchup nightmare. I'm hoping to see him become a threat facing the basket, which will draw defenders and give us some beautiful high-low plays between him and Miles, or kick-outs to Dre and Seth for dagger threes.

3) Dre and Seth: Been awhile since we had two dead-eye three point shooters on the team. Even better, both guys appear able to make mid-range shots off the dribble and get to the rim. If Kyrie can drive and pass the way we're expecting, and the Plumlees can keep other teams honest on having to defend the lane on defense, Dre and Seth could give us the kind of offense where other teams have to pick their poison.

4) Kelly: bulk, bulk, bulk. A full offseason working on his defense, rebounding, putting on muscle will allow him more time on the court next winter to show us the offensive skills we know he's got. We've just seen how guys can develop over four years at Duke, and I'm excited to see his growth each and every year.

For the guys coming in:
We're all banking on Kyrie being the real deal. If he is, if he can step in as a freshman and play Duke defense, run the motion offense, and be the kind of scoring/driving/passing threat we think, that will make this team. The other guys coming in, Felix, Hairston, and Thornton, may be less essential to the success of the team, but significant contributions from any of them would help, just with depth and giving us different looks.

There's no denying how much we're losing with Jon, Zoubs, Lance, and (probably) Kyle going...but I think we have every reason to look forward to a really exciting season coming up. Coach K is just the guy to be able to switch gears to a completely different type of team. It's going to be nasty half-court man-to-man D and beautiful motion offense. This team is going to run, and it's going to score.

roywhite
04-09-2010, 10:04 AM
Very good summary by davekay.

One guy who can add so much to the team is also a guy I think really needs work and improvement in a basic area...and that's Mason Plumlee and his shooting. He really needs to be able to hit shots within 10 feet for sure and then out to 15-17 feet. And foul shots.

northernduke
04-09-2010, 10:06 AM
4) Kelly: bulk, bulk, bulk. A full offseason working on his defense, rebounding, putting on muscle will allow him more time on the court next winter to show us the offensive skills we know he's got. We've just seen how guys can develop over four years at Duke, and I'm excited to see his growth each and every year.

You think we get to hear about another peanut butter and jelly diet from the announcers next year?

Troublemaker
04-09-2010, 10:31 AM
NS by a mile. I'm pretty confident he knows he needs to mentor KI in particular. My impression is that Nolan this season was not so quiet. In his first 2 years, I'd have said that, but not this season, when, IMO, his natural mischievous personality showed itself, in occasional smack talk, for example. Nolan looked far too passive his first 2 years, but he changed into an assertive-enough guy this year. He already knows what K will tell him: "Teach Kyrie."

IMO, KI will take to NS's team-lead very easily, as KI has a mischievous streak, too, as evidenced in McD videos. KI will definitely be the lead guard, but he'll not mind at all deferring to NS as the team leader. These are bright guys, playful. I expect the whole team to have fun with each other.


Agreed. One of the really cool things I've heard this offseason was a WRAL radio interview with Nolan in which he stated that part of his motivation for deciding on and announcing his return to Duke so soon was that he didn't want next year's young team to have no seniors. So, yeah, Nolan will be the leader and the captain next season (and possibly co-captain if Kyle decides to return, too).

jv001
04-09-2010, 11:15 AM
Very good summary by davekay.

One guy who can add so much to the team is also a guy I think really needs work and improvement in a basic area...and that's Mason Plumlee and his shooting. He really needs to be able to hit shots within 10 feet for sure and then out to 15-17 feet. And foul shots.

a well rounded player this is exactly what Mason needs to work on. Mason has pretty good ball handling skills and they will get better. What he needs is some go to moves and a medium range jumper. And a jump hook like big brother would not hurt. As for Miles, I expect another big jump in his play. All good observations guys. Go Duke!

Duke of Nashville
04-09-2010, 11:18 AM
Very good summary by davekay.

One guy who can add so much to the team is also a guy I think really needs work and improvement in a basic area...and that's Mason Plumlee and his shooting. He really needs to be able to hit shots within 10 feet for sure and then out to 15-17 feet. And foul shots.

If Mason can develop that 15-17 ft jumper, like Miles, and then learns the pump fake and drive OMG look out sports center because we are going to see how "alarmingly athletic" this team will be next year.

gumbomoop
04-09-2010, 11:21 AM
Agreed. One of the really cool things I've heard this offseason was a WRAL radio interview with Nolan in which he stated that part of his motivation for deciding on and announcing his return to Duke so soon was that he didn't want next year's young team to have no seniors. So, yeah, Nolan will be the leader and the captain next season (and possibly co-captain if Kyle decides to return, too).

I had to look and think twice about "offseason," but by golly you're right. Hard to believe. We posters will stretch this NC season well into the spring, probably even summer, by calling it "postseason." Who could want this season ever to end? Stretch it out. Hard to let go of the amazing joy.

Or maybe not, as we're never ever satisfied, and so have already begun - me, too, for sure - to discuss and debate next season. Not too much friendly fire yet, but it may come.

As I recall the pretty fierce disagreements beginning last offseason, I'm thinking April-November '10 will be somewhat calmer. Recalling 12 months back, there was the dual bad news re G and EW. Pretty somber time. Good news with Andre's decision, but still, the debate was fierce re Duke's hopes. Optimists ["Duke's preseason top 10"] v. pessimists ["Are you nuts?"], continued during season via glass half full metaphor. Z's emergence shifted debate a bit toward optimists, the Md loss wasn't much of a downer, and followed so quickly by senior night dismantling of Heels, virtually all posters had become at least cautiously optimistic. Gritty wins in ACCT could lead either to more optimism or more caution. You know the rest. And you're not going to let it go, ever.

Optimism this ['10] "postseason" is flowering, certainly in my and others' gardens, with requisite caution: don't count our chickens [I got those too, literally] before they're hatched. So NS is going to mentor the chicks.

But several of these guys are hardly major ?-marks, so NS's task is not overwhelming. [Remember major ?-mark threads re Duke/UNC a year ago, and how that turned out?] SC has played a season, and rumors swirl about his talent in practice. CF isn't just out of HS, and presents an interesting possibility as valuable wing defender. And KI may look young, and yes, he'll have a few more TOs than JS, but he won't look lost. He will - any doubters? - lose his defender pretty regularly. As to other 2 new guys, I'm guessing TT gets a bit more time than JH, if he's the defender he's rumored to be.

No chicken before its time; no wine until it's hatched. Agreed, but things sure feel a whole lot different and way better than 12 months ago.

Unless we're never satisfied, no matter what.

Osiagledknarf
04-09-2010, 12:18 PM
Kyrie: Add a little bit of bulk and come in and gain chemistry with the other guards and the bigs... I would really like to see the guys on the same page with one another going into the season, especially with the starters and Curry.. Other then that, he is great as of right now..

Andre: Add some bulk and add lateral quickness.. He has certainly the skills and athletic ability to be a big contributor on the offensive end and could become an above defender but really needs to work at it this offseason..

Kelly: Add some bulk and work on his defense.. He has great offensive skills, but did not play this season because of his inability to rebound and be defense.. This needs to be a priority of his if he is going to meaningful minutes off the bench next offseason, which I am fully expecting he will..

Mason: I think it is just as simple as learning Coach K's system and adapting to it.. Mason has all the skills to be not a good, but a great player post player in the country... He just needs to adapt and learn to coach K's system... I expect him to make a huge leap next season..

Also to have everyone in, in shape and ready to compete at a high level right from the outset... For guys like Thronton, Felix and Hairston need to be ready to come in when ready and be able to contribute even though they may not get "meaningful minutes" most of the time, they gotta still be ready for when they maybe called upon.

greybeard
04-09-2010, 01:54 PM
Greybeard! You can't use words like 'pitch' and call it soccer...footie suffices, not soccer. Anyhow, interesting post nonetheless.

I don't know how to creat those little marks that are like umlauts auf Deutche. Spelling out "football," with the mokes here, might have been more than a tad confusing. Soccer they know; see the value in it, probably not so much. For some it takes time; for others a little more time. I better stop. Jumbo is gonna kill me. ;)

weezie
04-09-2010, 02:18 PM
The Plumlees: I expect those guys saw what Lance and Zoubs brought to the team, both in game and in practice.


I would venture that Miles and Mason were part of the reason that Lance and Zoubs ultimately put it all together on defense. That much beef and length in practice would have made for some kind of intensity that definitely paid off during games.

CrazieDUMB
04-09-2010, 02:46 PM
Any ideas how we're going to run our big men next year? Here's the pool:

Miles Plumlee (5, sometimes 4)
Mason Plumlee (4, sometimes 5)
Hairston (4)
Kelly(4)

Seems like we have a lot of 4's and only Mason can play the 5 if Miles gets in foul trouble. Do we go with a four-out one-in, considering hairston and kelly are more face-up players? I think Miles and Mason start, but how do we run a rotation? Do we need Kelly to be a strong 4 and bulk up like Lance did? Or will that be Hairston's role? I know this is a tired line on these boards, but after seeing how awesome it is to have consistent rebounders I wish we had another big bruiser in the paint. Can we get Z to shave his beard and pretend he's a new player?

jimsumner
04-09-2010, 03:21 PM
Assuming Ryan Kelly puts on a solid 15-20 pounds of muscle, he'll be able to play the 5.

Oh, he won't be a back-to-the-basket, back-down-the-defender-and-muscle-it-in center. But over the years, Duke has had guys like Mark Alarie, John Smith, Roshown McLeod, Shane Battier, Lance Thomas and Kyle Singler play the 5 for extended periods.

Given that extra weight, Kelly will be bigger than the above mentioned and about the same size as Danny Ferry, Cherokee Parks, Greg Newton or Josh McRoberts. Kelly can be a very effective, face-the-basket post player, with the ability to take a defender away from the basket. He's an excellent passer, with great court awareness and three-point range on his shot. He has long arms and good shot-blocking instincts.

He just needs the bulk.

roywhite
04-09-2010, 08:01 PM
Assuming Ryan Kelly puts on a solid 15-20 pounds of muscle, he'll be able to play the 5.

Oh, he won't be a back-to-the-basket, back-down-the-defender-and-muscle-it-in center. But over the years, Duke has had guys like Mark Alarie, John Smith, Roshown McLeod, Shane Battier, Lance Thomas and Kyle Singler play the 5 for extended periods.

Given that extra weight, Kelly will be bigger than the above mentioned and about the same size as Danny Ferry, Cherokee Parks, Greg Newton or Josh McRoberts. Kelly can be a very effective, face-the-basket post player, with the ability to take a defender away from the basket. He's an excellent passer, with great court awareness and three-point range on his shot. He has long arms and good shot-blocking instincts.

He just needs the bulk.

Honestly, hadn't really thought about Kelly at the 5. That's an interesting take, jim. Some of these projected lineups are likely to give us less rebounding presence than 2009-10, especially if Kyle leaves, but that's understandable, I guess.

We'll trade off size and rebounding for speed and more scoring threats. Different, but still quite formidable.

greybeard
04-09-2010, 08:21 PM
What the heck, Jumbo's nowhere in sight so here goes. For those of you who have dismissed my soccer suggestion, give it another try. Look at the best teams, and most all the best players in the league, grew up in soccer cultures and many played the game. They are inventive in their offensive combination play, using the soccer stapple, pass to a close-by teammate, move and get a quick pass back, make great use of space, and play terrific in the inside out passing game. They also have quick feet, come into balance quickly for a shot, and play an exciting style to watch.

There are so many it is pointless to try to name many; here are some of the more prominent ones: Kobe, Nash, Nowitski, Kidd (two time All State Center midfielder), Diaw, more than half the starters of the Lakers and Suns. The Suns several years ago hired a former World Cup Champion and star frenchman to literally kick the ball around with players during the off season and after practices; he worked extensively with Stoudamire, whom Nash and the dude from Brazil sold on the idea that soccer training ws the way to go. D'Antoni goes to the Knicks and drafts a 19 year old Italian with the Knicks first pick.

No, I'm dead serious; absolutely the best thing that the Plumlees and Ryan could do for themselves; in fact, all the returning guys. How much basketball can you play before repetition has such diminishing returns as to barely be a learning environment?

Bye, gotta scootch before the cat returns.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-09-2010, 08:25 PM
The Biggiest key to the offseason is the impovement of Mason, He has a lot of potential, and if he can put that potential into true skill on the court , Duke will be the team to beat next year with or without Kyle.

Cockabeau
04-09-2010, 08:39 PM
No, the biggest key I think is Carrick Felix.

WO Kyle, this kid will be the difference on an elite team

Irving-Stud
Smith-Stud
Curry-X factor
Plumlee-Stud
Felix/Hairston-X factor

Here is your starting lineup folks...its a return to the pressure D. Depending on our matchups ,I think this team will be tough to beat...

MarkD83
04-09-2010, 08:50 PM
Somewhere I heard the comment that this years National Championship team (boy that never gets old) could play against any style that other teams threw at them.

I believe in looking at next year's team the same can be said. That means I expect Coach K to play all 10 players but with different lineups against different teams or against the same team at different times of the game. Let me give you an idea what I mean:

If UNC plays

Drew, Bullock, Barnes, Zeller and Davis (or Henson) we might see

Irving, Smith, Felix, Plumlee and Plumlee (or Kelly or Hairston on Henson)

If UNC wants to go big with

Marshall, Graves, Zeller, Davis and Wear how about Coach K messes with their minds and puts in

Thorton, Curry, Smith, Dawkins and Hairston and runs them out of the gym. (Or should Irving or Smith still be in this lineup.)

Oh so many possibilities I can hardly wait.

dukestheheat
04-09-2010, 09:15 PM
To me, a simple reply:

1) If at all possible, Kyle stays at Duke.

2) The Plumlees bulk and work on further developing their game inside the paint.

dth.

hedevil
04-09-2010, 09:17 PM
My biggest concerns for the upcoming season are to see Kelly add some weight and muscle, and to see how many quality minutes Hairston can provide as a freshman. I think our bigs may be the weakest link on the upcoming team as far as fouls are concerned. If the Plumlees(either or both) get in early foul trouble we could find ourselves vulnerable on the inside. The development of Kelly and Hairston might be the most crucial development of this upcoming team.

I am glad to see how so many people have become aware of the importance of this years seniors (Z, Jon, LT). Earlier in the season many posters were having a tough time focusing on this years squad because they were anticipating next years team (understandably so). However, now that this years squad won a NC we're filling in the blanks on how to fill the void left by the seniors due to size and experience. I trust K can fill that void, but it's going to be fun to watch this next team as it progresses through the season.

DevilHorns
04-09-2010, 09:22 PM
Good thing we have one of the best strength and conditioning coaches in the league (William Stephens).

http://www.dukeblueplanet.com/content.asp?tid=70

He deserves a lot of credit for guiding these boys to their potential. Lance and Z were clearly much stronger this year than the previous year. That was HUGE in terms of rebounding and general on the court ego.

(for those of you who need a workout plan, check out the pdf on the bottom of the page!)

DukeBlood
04-09-2010, 09:23 PM
No, the biggest key I think is Carrick Felix.

WO Kyle, this kid will be the difference on an elite team

Irving-Stud
Smith-Stud
Curry-X factor
Plumlee-Stud
Felix/Hairston-X factor

Here is your starting lineup folks...its a return to the pressure D. Depending on our matchups ,I think this team will be tough to beat...

No.

Irving stud? Really? Kid hasnt even stepped on campus. Everyone thought John Henson would light a fire at UNC. Im not saying he wont be, but Im not going to mark him one yet.

Plumlee stud? Im assuming you're talking about Mason, Ok I can agree with that to an extent. He has the tools to be one for sure, but he wasn't a stud last year. I believe he will be one, but you shouldnt name him one when his best game was 11 and 7 against Wake(Please don't say his game against
Penn was his best, They were one of the worst teams in all of college bball)

I don't think you will see Kyrie, Nolan and Seth all start, Most likely one (seth) coming off the bench. I believe a few posters(Jim sumner maybe?) Said It would most likely be Kyrie, Nolan, Andre, Mason and Miles all starting.

There are too many questions, I just had to respectfully disagree with you.

MarkD83
04-09-2010, 09:36 PM
I don't want to start another thread but Duke will be good because the ACC will have another down year like each of the last 24 years. ;)

Final Fours Since 1986*
Duke: 11
Entire Big Ten Conference: 17
Rest of the ACC: 13
Entire SEC: 13
Entire Big East: 11
Entire Pac-10: 9

Bob Green
04-09-2010, 09:57 PM
Plumlee stud? Im assuming you're talking about Mason....

I believe it is a mistake to underestimate Miles Plumlee's potential to be a stud next season. During the nine post season games this season, Miles averaged 3.7 points and 4.1 rebounds per game in 14.9 minutes of action. Moreover, he only committed 1.9 personal fouls per game. His adjustment to playing defense without fouling is significant. As noted earlier in this thread, Miles started 24 games this year so he has earned "returning starter" status. Miles has demonstrated solid offensive skills such as the hook shot and midrange jumper. With continued improvement over the off season, the same type of improvement demonstrated by Zoubek, I fully expect Miles Plumlee to be a stud at the post for Duke the next two seasons.

In regard to Mason Plumlee, I'm optimistic we will see dramatic improvement next season compared to this season. The freshman to sophomore jump should occur. I'm confident Mason will work hard over the off season and be teamed up with his older brother to become one part of an inside Dynamic Duo for the Devils.

Newton_14
04-09-2010, 10:09 PM
Isn't it great discussing the exciting possibilities of next year's team, especially knowing a great recruiting class is coming in led by the best point guard in the nation, all while basking in the knowledge that we just won the freaking NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP?

What an enjoyable summer this is going to be. Next year's team has so many new and different elements, and K will have so many options it will take us the entire summer to discuss the endless possibilties and to dissect just how many ways he will have to beat teams both through offense and defense!

I will post my thoughts on what I think we need to see shortly but I first just wanted to remind everyone that we just WON THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP mainly because that is the greatest thing there is to do in this game we love so much, and I for one just don't get tired of saying it!!

Go Duke!

Kedsy
04-09-2010, 11:21 PM
No, the biggest key I think is Carrick Felix.

WO Kyle, this kid will be the difference on an elite team

Irving-Stud
Smith-Stud
Curry-X factor
Plumlee-Stud
Felix/Hairston-X factor

Here is your starting lineup folks...its a return to the pressure D. Depending on our matchups ,I think this team will be tough to beat...

There is almost no chance of this being our regular starting lineup. If Kyle goes, Carrick and Josh will probably be the 8th and 9th guys in a 10-man rotation, getting 10 or so minutes a game. Miles, Ryan, and Andre all have a much better chance of being in the starting lineup than either Carrick or Josh.


Irving stud? Really? Kid hasnt even stepped on campus. Everyone thought John Henson would light a fire at UNC. Im not saying he wont be, but Im not going to mark him one yet.

True, he hasn't played a college game yet, but everyone who has seen him play thinks he's going to be special, right from the start. If you had to choose in a bet that he will be either an impact college PG or a Henson-sized disappointment, which side would you take?

COYS
04-09-2010, 11:47 PM
There is almost no chance of this being our regular starting lineup. If Kyle goes, Carrick and Josh will probably be the 8th and 9th guys in a 10-man rotation, getting 10 or so minutes a game. Miles, Ryan, and Andre all have a much better chance of being in the starting lineup than either Carrick or Josh.



True, he hasn't played a college game yet, but everyone who has seen him play thinks he's going to be special, right from the start. If you had to choose in a bet that he will be either an impact college PG or a Henson-sized disappointment, which side would you take?

I'd also point out that Henson played off the ball on a team that had serious problems with guard play. The whole team suffered from poor entry passes, poor ball movement, tons of turnovers, etc. Add to that the fact that Henson started out playing the three when he can't shoot a lick from the outside and you get a talented freshman who is put in a position to fail. He improved dramatically once Davis went down and he moved back into the post. Kyrie is a point guard and will get to play point guard at Duke. He will not be asked to play small forward or play as a strict shooting guard (though I bet he'll play off the ball a fair amount with Nolan and Seth on the team). K will implement an offensive system that highlights Kyrie's strengths (and, if we do in fact see a faster offense next season, I think it will highlight the strengths of all of the personnel). He will be put in a position to succeed. even if he isn't quite as good as everyone hopes, he will be better than Henson this season because he'll have the ball in his hands more and he'll have it in a position at which he is comfortable. I think those are major advantages for Kyrie as a freshman that Henson did not enjoy this past season. That being said, I still think Henson was far more raw offensively then anyone realized.

Saratoga2
04-09-2010, 11:56 PM
No.

Irving stud? Really? Kid hasnt even stepped on campus. Everyone thought John Henson would light a fire at UNC. Im not saying he wont be, but Im not going to mark him one yet.

Plumlee stud? Im assuming you're talking about Mason, Ok I can agree with that to an extent. He has the tools to be one for sure, but he wasn't a stud last year. I believe he will be one, but you shouldnt name him one when his best game was 11 and 7 against Wake(Please don't say his game against
Penn was his best, They were one of the worst teams in all of college bball)

I don't think you will see Kyrie, Nolan and Seth all start, Most likely one (seth) coming off the bench. I believe a few posters(Jim sumner maybe?) Said It would most likely be Kyrie, Nolan, Andre, Mason and Miles all starting.

There are too many questions, I just had to respectfully disagree with you.

I agree with you. Players come in with high expectations but we shouldn't be surprised when they take time to adapt to a new level of play for them. These kids have a lot of potential to shine, but let it happen before we anoint them as superstars.

What I have seen of Kyrie makes me believe he is very gifted. Mason with a year of experience is likely to have a breakout season and Miles is also improving and probably will react well to starting. Andre is another one who could have a breakout season. Clearly he has a lot of ability.

I am looking for Curry to be the X factor as he already demonstrated very good qualities against ACC teams and has a year of playing against his Duke teammates in spirited practices.

We will need to play our good defense and our points should come from Nolan (Maybe 18ppg avg). If Kyle stays we should get about 18ppg from him as well. If we can get 15 ppg out of the Plumlees combined and Irving and Curry can give us another 15 between them and the rest of the team produce 6 ppg, we can be atr 72 ppg. That many should win many games for Duke and seems realistic based on the personnel. Without Singler, we may need to find replacement points from Andre. Curry and Irving may also need to provide more than 15.

greybeard
04-10-2010, 12:41 AM
I believe it is a mistake to underestimate Miles Plumlee's potential to be a stud next season. During the nine post season games this season, Miles averaged 3.7 points and 4.1 rebounds per game in 14.9 minutes of action. Moreover, he only committed 1.9 personal fouls per game. His adjustment to playing defense without fouling is significant. As noted earlier in this thread, Miles started 24 games this year so he has earned "returning starter" status. Miles has demonstrated solid offensive skills such as the hook shot and midrange jumper. With continued improvement over the off season, the same type of improvement demonstrated by Zoubek, I fully expect Miles Plumlee to be a stud at the post for Duke the next two seasons.

In regard to Mason Plumlee, I'm optimistic we will see dramatic improvement next season compared to this season. The freshman to sophomore jump should occur. I'm confident Mason will work hard over the off season and be teamed up with his older brother to become one part of an inside Dynamic Duo for the Devils.

I agree with this, and also think that both brothers will benefit tremendously by the change in the other starting personnel. Kyrie can shoot the ball and has real speed, quickness and cleverness in penetrating the defense off the dribble and with the pass.

Duke I believe will play a lot of high low ball. I think Miles shoots it extremely well from 12-16,17 feet, which will open the middle down low for his brother. Both will get drop offs by the bushel from Kyrie and Smith, now that the focus will no longer be on proven exterior scorers besides Smith himself.

You will see a lot more movement by both Plumlees in more conventional ways that are designed to get offense from them. I think both will deliver.

Kelly might surprise people with how good he is. If so, he is the fifth starter.

The kid from DC can defend exceptionally well, shoots well too, and might see more playing time than many think. He makes Duke very formidable in pressuring the ball outside, which is a style that K likes.

I know nothing about the Jr College transfer and the big time forward that Duke recruited, but suspect that if Kelly does not have the physical wherewithall to play a lot of minutes in a pressure defense deployment, one or both of them will.

Once again, there will be huge changes in how Duke plays. It will keep K young and enthused, and should be very interesting to watch.

The biggest question mark is how well will the Plumlees and the two unknown commodities at forward be able to defend the basket and defensive rebound. That I believe will tell how good this team can be. If they can do that job competently or better, I think that this team will be very, very good, and terrifically exciting to watch.

DukeBlood
04-10-2010, 01:05 AM
Bob-
I dont believe im underestimating either Mason or Miles, I believe they have bright future's(ALL-ACC at some spoint in their career's). I just believe its unfair to label a guy a stud before he does a lot. I believe Miles will be a force on the boards next year(He needs to learn to position himself a little better, but in due time..) and be a very good defender. He has a sweet jump shot but not a huge amount of moves inside. Of course he can improve but lets wait and see.

Kedsy-
I suppose its what your team needs, If you already have a dynamic PG and need a 4, then Henson of course. If your team needs either or, then a PG. I know a lot of people have labeled in to be the next star. Is that fair though? A lot of people labeled Avery Bradley a star for Texas. What about Jrue Holiday for UCLA 2 years ago? I personally thought Jrue would tear it up. They had OK Freshman year's but nothing like J. Wall. Which who a lot of experts said Kyrie will have that type of Impact(J. Wall).

All's im saying, Its not fair to label Kyrie a stud or J. Wall.. Kyrie Irving is well, Kyrie Irving. He may step in from day one and average 15 PPG(or more) and 5-7 APG with 2-3 T/O's per game. On the other hand he may average 8-10 PPG with 3-6 APG.

I will say im excited for this upcoming season! Kyrie and Nolan will look to push the the ball and an up-tempo offense. It will be fun watching the guards just go. With that being said, The only one I believe will be ALL-ACC is Nolan(Since he has already proved it).. Do I believe Mason, Miles, Seth and Kyrie can be? Absolutely. Im just no t ready to label them there yet.

Big Pappa
04-10-2010, 01:06 AM
Kelly might surprise people with how good he is. If so, he is the fifth starter.

This is really interesting and could bring about a very large starting lineup. Assuming both of the Plumlees start with Nolan and Kyrie in the backcourt (if Kyle goes) that leaves a last spot for Seth, Andre, or possibly Ryan. If Ryan is given the 5th starting spot at the 3 position, which I think he could play, it would be a lineup that would reflect the size and athleticism of Baylor last year with Jones, Udoh, Acy, Dunn, and Carter (I know Lomers started but he played fewer minutes than Acy).

Osiagledknarf
04-10-2010, 01:54 AM
Expectations for players:

Irving: The expectations on this kid are sky high with him being a Mcdonald's All American and people saying he will be the next John Wall and Derrick Rose may raise people's expectation level's to a mark where he can't reach.. I expect to be a very good player next year, possibly great.. He could be one of the best players in the countery next season, but I am not holding him to that. I think he will be a playmaker for us, but I will level my expectations for him a bit..

Smith: Expect him to improve off of a great season and tourney. He could be a first team all american next year.. Expect him to be a huge factor for us at the least..

Singler (If he returns): Same thing with Smith.. I expect him to be in the talk for the ACC player of the year and be in the running for the National Player of the year.. I think he can reach this..

Miles: To take on the Zoubek role of being a very good defender and a low post presence with more offensive skills.. If he could average around 6 8 2 and a black a game I would certainly take it, and I think he is very capable of doing that..

Mason: I may have some of the bigger expectations of him of anyone on the team.. He has all the skills to become one of, if not the best big man in the ACC, and one of the top in the country.. I like him and expect him to post a lot of double doubles next season..


Bench:

Curry: For what I have seen and heard he looks to be the real thing.. With him having a year of college under his belt, I expect more out of him then I would with most rookies.. I expect him to be a very solid guy off the bench..

Dawkins: Same thing with Curry.. He has extremely good skills and could be an offensive force.. I expect him to be a solid contributor off the bench and give us good quality minutes.. He should be a lot better with a year of learning Coach K' system.

Kelly: He is a lot more important then a lot of people relize.. He is really are only big man off the bench that can come in for Mason and play the 5... He needs to be able to bulk up and come in and rebound and play somewhat good defense when Mason is in foul trouble or has to sit a game or two.. I expect him to be a "solid contributor" but I have a lot of doubts..

Felix: I think he will surprise a lot of people with his playing time.. He is super athletic and a very good defender, two things Coach K really likes out of the 3 spot. I expect him to play around 10-15 minutes a game and go in there, play solid defense and not make mistakes..

Hairston: Not expecting a lot from him his rookie season.. However, he should remain ready in case he is called upon..

Thronton: He is really the kid that maybe really be the kid who gets walk on minutes.. You ever hear of a 4 star prospect getting walk on minutes? He will need to be ready though like Hairston if someone goes down, and could possibly with a capital P gets some minutes because he is very good defensively, but dont expect much from him this upcoming season..

amat1129
04-10-2010, 05:48 AM
i really don't think both MP's will start especially if KS comes back like he should, their depth at the five position will be very crucial. The ability of kyle ryan josh and felix to rebound and convert putbacks will be so important

Bob Green
04-10-2010, 08:00 AM
i really don't think both MP's will start especially if KS comes back like he should....

If Kyle Singler returns for his senior season, he will spend the majority of his time at the small forward/wing position. I believe you can take that to the bank! It doesn't make sense for Kyle to return to Duke and move back into the post. Here are several reasons why:

1. His NBA position is the 3 and he played the 3 this year at Duke. His motivation for returning for his senior season would be to improve his ball handling and perimeter skills.

2. Duke will be deep inside. Miles Plumlee, Mason Plumlee, Ryan Kelly, and Josh Hairston will split time at the 4 & 5.

3. Singler was the Final Four MOP playing the 3 so why would Coach K move him? In other words, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

There are a lot of things that have to play out over the summer and into the fall before we all know who will play where next season, however, I'm pretty sure the default starters at the 4 & 5 are Mason and Miles Plumlee. Personally, I believe that is a good thing. The brothers Plumlee will be solid.

Cockabeau
04-10-2010, 09:05 AM
There is almost no chance of this being our regular starting lineup. If Kyle goes, Carrick and Josh will probably be the 8th and 9th guys in a 10-man rotation, getting 10 or so minutes a game. Miles, Ryan, and Andre all have a much better chance of being in the starting lineup than either Carrick or Josh.

When K has the players to play the type of pressure man-to-man that he prefers, he tends to play smaller.
We are fast,quick and deep at the guard position. We will speed things up next year. That is why Carrick/Hairston will play alot at the PF.

We played big and at a slower pace this season because:
Z and LT were effective at playing physical and setting screens. By platooning with the Plumlees, Duke was able to wear down other teams. Next year we won't have that luxury as the Plumlees are really as physical and they don't set screens like Z and LT. Playing two bigs is not conducive to the man-to-man pressure D that K prefers.

Rudy
04-10-2010, 10:50 AM
If Kyle leaves that hole will be bigger than any other. As great as Jon was, he will be missed less next year than Kyle. That's not meant as a slam on Jon, his value was higher than ever this past year because of our lack of depth in the backcourt. Just do an on paper comparison of the guard depth:

09-10--Scheyer (4th yr player), Smith (3rd), Dawkins (1st), Davidson

10-11--Smith (4th), Curry (3rd), Dawkins (2nd), Irving (1st)

Yeah, this is just on paper (or on screen) but it does give us something to get excited about in the off-season.

Troublemaker
04-10-2010, 11:29 AM
When K has the players to play the type of pressure man-to-man that he prefers, he tends to play smaller.
We are fast,quick and deep at the guard position. We will speed things up next year. That is why Carrick/Hairston will play alot at the PF.


But I think you are underestimating the role experience plays in the Duke program. See Ryan Kelly's minutes this past season, Andre's minutes, Mason coming off the bench...

Irving will play and probably start next season because he's extremely talented (top 5 recruit), but Thornton and Hairston and Felix will settle into deep bench roles, imo. Of the three, Thornton probably has the best chance of being part of the regular rotation since basketball IQ and defense are supposed to be among his incoming strengths.

Generally speaking, Duke fans tend to overestimate the impact of freshmen and other newcomers. I can't remember the last offseason where we didn't do that, so I expect it'll happen again this offseason.

I'm even wary of Seth Curry's impact, which I think will be large in time but not necessarily large right away. I remember when Dahntay Jones transferred in from Rutgers, there were internet rumblings that he was the best player in practice during his off-year; mind you, Shane Battier and Jason Williams were part of these practices. Then, Dahntay played really well over the summer for a USA team coached by Boeheim, who raved about his overall game, and expectations just became sky-high for Dahntay heading into his first eligible year at Duke. Now, he did play well for Duke and was a great defensive player but the expectations were just too high and unfair. So, wrt Seth, Carrick, and the freshmen, I'm just gonna enjoy watching them play and not expect much at first. If they pleasantly surprise me, all the better.

jimsumner
04-10-2010, 11:36 AM
I'm a bit curious about all the "I don't expect much from Josh Hairston" quotes I'm seeing. Hairston may well end up as a consensus top-20 player. He's got size, above average athleticism, above average skills, has been well-coached and has great intangibles.

I don't think he'll make the all-rookie team but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Duke get 15 or so very productive minutes per game next season from Hairston and a lot more than that down the road. He's a significant recruit for Duke.

Saratoga2
04-10-2010, 01:25 PM
If Kyle Singler returns for his senior season, he will spend the majority of his time at the small forward/wing position. I believe you can take that to the bank! It doesn't make sense for Kyle to return to Duke and move back into the post. Here are several reasons why:

1. His NBA position is the 3 and he played the 3 this year at Duke. His motivation for returning for his senior season would be to improve his ball handling and perimeter skills.

2. Duke will be deep inside. Miles Plumlee, Mason Plumlee, Ryan Kelly, and Josh Hairston will split time at the 4 & 5.

3. Singler was the Final Four MOP playing the 3 so why would Coach K move him? In other words, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

There are a lot of things that have to play out over the summer and into the fall before we all know who will play where next season, however, I'm pretty sure the default starters at the 4 & 5 are Mason and Miles Plumlee. Personally, I believe that is a good thing. The brothers Plumlee will be solid.

I expect Kyrie to get the start at PG with Curry substitution. Both these guys are around 6'1" so will need to wind up guarding the opposing point if they can handle it. That will leave Nolan as the shootin guard with possibly help from Andre and/or Tyler.

If Singler returns, I agree that he will be the small forward. No doubt he would get a lot of minutes so he would only need a n occasional rest. Carrick and or Dawkins also could do that. If Kyle doesn't return, then those two are likely to get most of the time at small forward.

I don't see any problem filling the 4 and the 5 positions. With Mason and Miles starting. Big men usually need more frequent substitution and can find themselves in more foul trouble. We will have backups with and improved Ryan and a good sized Josh with reasonable BB skills. I think Josh will compare quite well with what Lance was doing this past season.

I am encouraged to think this team has very good talent, even if somewhat low on experience in key positions. If these guys stay together and learn to play as a team, we have seen what can happen. I agree with those who don't want to raise expectations before we see them in action.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-10-2010, 01:34 PM
Josh is a better scorer than lance and lance is of course a better defender, i don't really understand why so many are comparing the two.

Cockabeau
04-10-2010, 01:57 PM
Irving will play and probably start next season because he's extremely talented (top 5 recruit), but Thornton and Hairston and Felix will settle into deep bench roles, imo. Of the three, Thornton probably has the best chance of being part of the regular rotation since basketball IQ and defense are supposed to be among his incoming strengths.

Generally speaking, Duke fans tend to overestimate the impact of freshmen and other newcomers. I can't remember the last offseason where we didn't do that, so I expect it'll happen again this offseason.

I'm even wary of Seth Curry's impact, which I think will be large in time but not necessarily large right away. I remember when Dahntay Jones transferred in from Rutgers, there were internet rumblings that he was the best player in practice during his off-year; mind you, Shane Battier and Jason Williams were part of these practices. Then, Dahntay played really well over the summer for a USA team coached by Boeheim, who raved about his overall game, and expectations just became sky-high for Dahntay heading into his first eligible year at Duke. Now, he did play well for Duke and was a great defensive player but the expectations were just too high and unfair. So, wrt Seth, Carrick, and the freshmen, I'm just gonna enjoy watching them play and not expect much at first. If they pleasantly surprise me, all the better.

I also see Seth Curry as an X-factor but if he is not an impact player right away then I am ok with that because we have two impact players in the backcourt.
This team has many unknown variables, I agree with you.
But if Seth can become an impact player...
I see Thornton at the end of the bench because his attributes don't compliment what we already have on the team.
That is why Carrick and Hairston are important. We already have the shooters,rebounders and handlers.
A missing element is a slasher type wing who can finish plays if Kyle leaves.

Which is why Carrick will become an integral part of this team. He can finish,he can defend. That is what we need,imo.

MarkD83
04-10-2010, 03:10 PM
I see Thornton at the end of the bench because his attributes don't compliment what we already have on the team.


Of course his strength is on the ball defense so with so many other offensive options he might play 8-10 minutes just for defense.

Cockabeau
04-10-2010, 03:18 PM
To be frank, you are wrong.

Nolan Smith, Seth Curry and KI are capable to excellent defenders. In addition, all three are excellent on offense.
In addition, there is one Andre Dawkins.

In any scenario, I can't see TT playing over these four players

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-10-2010, 03:26 PM
Might Ty Thorton take a redshirt?

Wander
04-10-2010, 04:12 PM
Might Ty Thorton take a redshirt?

I think Dick Broadhead should introduce a rule that bans Coach K from ever having more than four active guards on the roster, given the difference in results between this year and our small ball of recent seasons.

proelitedota
04-10-2010, 04:32 PM
I think Dick Broadhead should introduce a rule that bans Coach K from ever having more than four active guards on the roster, given the difference in results between this year and our small ball of recent seasons.

All our championship teams played only 2 guards at most. We've done extremely well when not playing small ball in the tournament.

MarkD83
04-10-2010, 04:53 PM
To be frank, you are wrong.

Nolan Smith, Seth Curry and KI are capable to excellent defenders. In addition, all three are excellent on offense.
In addition, there is one Andre Dawkins.

In any scenario, I can't see TT playing over these four players

Pressure D takes lots of bodies. I did not say TT would start but I can see minutes like this
Nolan 25
Irving 25
Curry 20
Dawkins 20
Thorton 10

This would require a 3 guard line up for 20 minutes. OK maybe I am begining to see your point. This backcourt is loaded.

And just to add one final point. My original comment was because K loves defense that gives Thorton a chance to play more than we may expect.

DukieInBrasil
04-10-2010, 05:18 PM
I agree with you. Players come in with high expectations but we shouldn't be surprised when they take time to adapt to a new level of play for them. These kids have a lot of potential to shine, but let it happen before we anoint them as superstars.

What I have seen of Kyrie makes me believe he is very gifted. Mason with a year of experience is likely to have a breakout season and Miles is also improving and probably will react well to starting. Andre is another one who could have a breakout season. Clearly he has a lot of ability.

I am looking for Curry to be the X factor as he already demonstrated very good qualities against ACC teams and has a year of playing against his Duke teammates in spirited practices.

We will need to play our good defense and our points should come from Nolan (Maybe 18ppg avg). If Kyle stays we should get about 18ppg from him as well. If we can get 15 ppg out of the Plumlees combined and Irving and Curry can give us another 15 between them and the rest of the team produce 6 ppg, we can be atr 72 ppg. That many should win many games for Duke and seems realistic based on the personnel. Without Singler, we may need to find replacement points from Andre. Curry and Irving may also need to provide more than 15.

I fully expect Nolan to average 20+ ppg, and I'm willing to bet that Seth will be able to score 15ppg by himself, seeing as he averaged 22ppg vs the ACC as a Fr. 2 years ago. I think 15ppg from the Plumlees is certainly a possibility but I wouldn't be surprised if they score more, especially if Kyle goes pro. Next year's team could be a 90+ppg team.
This year's team had talented scorers but lack of bodies, especially in the backcourt, forced us to play slower and therefore put up lower pt totals. We won't have a problem with enough bodies in the backcourt like this past (National Championship) team...

jimsumner
04-10-2010, 06:44 PM
"All our championship teams played only 2 guards at most."

The 1991 team included Bobby Hurley, Thomas Hill and Billy McCaffrey, all of whom played extensively.

Osiagledknarf
04-10-2010, 06:51 PM
I'm a bit curious about all the "I don't expect much from Josh Hairston" quotes I'm seeing. Hairston may well end up as a consensus top-20 player. He's got size, above average athleticism, above average skills, has been well-coached and has great intangibles.

I don't think he'll make the all-rookie team but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Duke get 15 or so very productive minutes per game next season from Hairston and a lot more than that down the road. He's a significant recruit for Duke.

I agree with you on his future, but not this season.. Coach K usually doesn't usually give big guys in there first year a lot of minutes.. Like we saw with Kelly this year for example..

At the PF position we have: Miles, Kelly and Singler, and even Mason who can play both the 4 and the 5..

I dont see with this how we get's major playing time this season because of the depth in front in him and how Coach K's history with bigs..

jimsumner
04-10-2010, 07:00 PM
Lots of big guys have received major minutes as freshmen under K. Depends on the need and depends on how good they are. Just in recent years, we've seen Carlos Boozer, Shelden Williams, Luol Deng (almost the exact same size as Hairston), Josh McRoberts, Lance Thomas (almost exactly the same size as Hairston), Kyle Singler (almost exactly the same size as Hairston) and others play as freshmen.

Hairston may or may not play the 15 mpg I think he'll play. But if he doesn't, it won't be because K doesn't play freshmen bigs.

Rudy
04-10-2010, 07:15 PM
I think Dick Broadhead should introduce a rule that bans Coach K from ever having more than four active guards on the roster, given the difference in results between this year and our small ball of recent seasons.
I know you're joking but jeez, even as a joke the thought of the Prez anywhere near the basketball program gives me the willies.

gumbomoop
04-10-2010, 09:21 PM
Rather than quoting a previous poster or 2 with whom I generally agree or partially disagree, I'll list mpg for what I expect will be our 10 players next season. This means I assume KS will leave, though I also assume this is sort of a 60/40 probability, so he might well return. Should he do so, the mpg's I'm predicting below will obviously change drastically, particularly for the last 3 guys, TT, CF, and JH. In this scenario, I'll gladly revise all numbers to allow KS to play a whole lot.

My speculations:

Early season -
C - MP1 (27 mpg), MP2 (13)
PF - MP2 (15), RK (20), JH (5)
Wing - NS (32), DD (8)
Wing - SC (22), DD (12), CF (6)
PG - KI (32), TT (8)

Late season -
C - MP1 (28), MP2 (12)
PF - MP2 (18), RK (22)
W - NS (34), DD (6)
W - SC (22), DD (14), CF (4)
PG - KI (35), TT (5)

Explanation:

I'm not trying to make this a puzzle, so here's my thinking: Starting with last 3 guys, my numbers say I'm guessing TT and CF get a bit more time than JH because of their reputed abilities on D. I mean no disparagement of JH, but I think he falls clearly to #4 among Bigs, and like RK this year, as last Big he plays not much at all in last part of season. I am perfectly aware that this season we had 5 Bigs, next only 4, but except in foul-problem situations, I think by late season K will go with the 3 experienced Bigs at the 2 interior positions. Yes, JH could surprise and take some of RK's minutes, but RK will be much better next year, knows the ropes. JH will become a fine player in future, but he's near end of bench by late season, and unless K actually plays a 9/10-man rotation late season, I see JH as out. Even in this circumstance, I'm confident he will say, as did RK this season, "I became a better player."

Now, last guy might just as easily be CF or TT, but by rep these 2 can play D. K has plenty of guys who can score, so as season progresses, the last guys to play a bit will be those who can play D. My late-season numbers for TT and CF suggest K will play 8-9 man rotation, which may be stretching things. Really one might think of the numbers as meaning some late-season games CF will get 6-8 minutes, others TT will get 6-8. I'm guessing, and so admit that it's just as likely K reverts to an 8-man rotation - at most - and that either CF or TT will join JH as DNP late season..

All other numbers are perhaps close to self-explanatory, but I'll babble on a bit. I'm confident that NS and KI will get major, major minutes, though fortunately not what 3-S played this year. Should K go with a fierce pressing D, I can see that neither NS nor KI will log quite so many minutes. But under any circumstances that I can see as plausible, those 2 will still get 30+ in late-season, with MP2 and MP1 getting close to 30, absent foul problems. I've no doubt the MPs will be in splendid shape to run for 30 minutes, but their ability to play strong D without fouling is a major concern. RK will get plenty of minutes at PF. JH might surprise me.

I'm still sky-high from Monday night. I'm still a Loony Optimist concerning upcoming season. I certainly admit that winning NC in '11 won't be as easy as it was this year - HA! - but [I'm repeating myself here, and will cheerfully do so repeatedly between now and November], with KS, Duke is preseason #1, without, #5-7, and should be #3-4.

K will enjoy remolding the team. Seems the most obvious problem - if my mpg's are near-accurate - is, which of our smallish wings can play an opposing 6'6" wing. Some posters have said this is why CF or JH must play more. Fair enough, but my guess is different, and I'd use Butler's small-but-fierce defenders as a model for how any of NS, DD, or SC could play a taller guy. Even if an opposing 6'6" wing posts Duke's shorter defender, they better watch out for MPs stuffing from weak side.

Plenty of carry-over wonderful vibes, plenty of high potential talent, KI [on TV 45 minutes from now!] a whirlwind, NS excellent O and D, tantalizing new guys. High cotton.

Bob Green
04-10-2010, 09:39 PM
Explanation:

I'm not trying to make this a puzzle, so here's my thinking: Starting with last 3 guys, my numbers say I'm guessing TT and CF get a bit more time than JH because of their reputed abilities on D. I mean no disparagement of JH, but I think he falls clearly to #4 among Bigs, and like RK this year, as last Big he plays not much at all in last part of season.

The disagreement I have with your line of reasoning is you never know how a freshman is going to perform. Perhaps your thoughts are spot on, however, there is equal chance Joshua Hairston will arrive at Duke and challenge for a starting lineup spot. I expect Hairston will play meaningful minutes as a freshman.

gumbomoop
04-10-2010, 10:11 PM
The disagreement I have with your line of reasoning is you never know how a freshman is going to perform. Perhaps your thoughts are spot on, however, there is equal chance Joshua Hairston will arrive at Duke and challenge for a starting lineup spot. I expect Hairston will play meaningful minutes as a freshman.

You're right re equal chance. My "evidence" really isn't. Of the 4 new guys, I think we've all heard tantalizing rumors re how good SC will be, and he's not quite a "new guy." Of the other 3, I've seen only JH, and I see he'll be good; but playing zone, he allowed an opposing player to get by him 3 times using essentially the same ball fake. So I wondered about his D, compared to - yes, rumors - CF and TT.

But I am really speculating re their numbers

amat1129
04-10-2010, 10:45 PM
i feel like curry's entire season of first playing and dominating and then learning the system and defense at duke this year will make him a much better contributer than any freshman other than KI, i expect curry will be a very valuable contributer whether or not KS comes back

Troublemaker
04-10-2010, 11:47 PM
I think Dick Broadhead should introduce a rule that bans Coach K from ever having more than four active guards on the roster, given the difference in results between this year and our small ball of recent seasons.

K said in the offseason that Kyle was going to be the 3 regardless of whether G or Ewill would've been back for another season. It just made sense. Kyle's defense and rebounding were much better from the 3 where he eventually became the primary defender against top-notch wings like LaceDarius Dunn while continuing to pound teams on the boards. When he was at the 4, his rebounding and defense were not nearly as impactful. He played small for a 4 because he's a 3. Shifting Kyle to the 3 also allowed LT to play the 4 and be an excellent help defender in Duke's scheme. LT rebounded and helped with aplomb at his new position.

We don't need a rule -- I know you're joking. We just need to let K be K and he'll figure out the right moves, as he's done for 30 years now and good enough for 4 national championships and 11 Final Fours.

lotusland
04-11-2010, 01:40 AM
Might Ty Thorton take a redshirt?

I thought about that too. If , as expected, he's our 5th best guard next year he may only get mop up minutes. The problem is that we don't know how long Irving stays. He could be one and done in which case Tyler has to be ready to play major minutes the following year. IMO the only way a red-shirt season for Thornton pays off for Duke is if Irving stays least 3-years.

I can't think of a time K red-shirted a player who was healthy enough to play anyway so it probably wouldn't happen even if we knew for sure that Irving was staying 3-4 years.

Wander
04-11-2010, 03:36 AM
We don't need a rule -- I know you're joking. We just need to let K be K and he'll figure out the right moves, as he's done for 30 years now and good enough for 4 national championships and 11 Final Fours.

As you say, I'm obviously joking. Coach knows what he's doing. But I do think the difference in postseason results between this year and previous years makes the smallball issue worth discussing. If Nolan, Irving, Curry, and Dawkins are four of our six best individual players next year (a scenario I don't guarantee, but also don't find unrealistic), should they get the four most minutes? I'd argue that this season proves that positions ARE maybe a little bit more important than the extreme "K doesn't play strict positions" crowd sometimes argues.

jimsumner
04-11-2010, 09:53 AM
"I can't think of a time K red-shirted a player who was healthy enough to play anyway so it probably wouldn't happen even if we knew for sure that Irving was staying 3-4 years. "

K is not a fan of non-injury redshirts. He's only done it three times, George Burgin (1986), Kenny Blakeney (1991) and Matt Christensen (1999). I have heard nothing to suggest that Thornton is being considered for such an option.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-11-2010, 10:06 AM
I just brought it up because we have so much Depth at the point guard spot I really don't see him getting that much play. I know he's a great defender but idk how much he will play with SC,NS,KI, all ahead of him on the depth chart.

ice-9
04-11-2010, 10:27 AM
While Josh is ranked highly coming from high school, so were Mason and Ryan and Ryan averaged only 6.5 minutes a game. That said I think the two Plumlees, Ryan and Josh will use the 80 minutes available at the 4 and 5; while it might be possible to put Ryan at the 3, we simply have too many good perimeter players to play. Thus...

Mason: 25 min
Miles: 25 min
Ryan: 20 min
Josh: 10 min

25 minutes per game is what Lance played this season. It's entirely possible that Mason and Miles will play more, but it'll depend on foul trouble and conditioning. If they play more minutes it'll be a good sign for our team.

What's actually going to be really interesting is how our perimeter minutes are divided. It's not easy to figure out strategically because next year we will have so many options. Who will take the shots? How do we trade off offense for defense? Here's how I see the 120 minutes being allocated...

Nolan: 34 min
Kyrie: 29 min
Seth: 20 min
Andre: 20 min
Felix: 16 min
Tyler: 1 min

Kyrie will spend all of his time at the 1, but I don't think he will play Jon like minutes. For one, he's a freshman and will make freshman mistakes. He will occasionally get into foul trouble and at some point in the season will no doubt hit the freshman wall.

But I don't think Tyler is the main back-up. When Kyrie sits on the bench, Nolan will play point guard for the other 10 minutes. Nolan instead of Seth because Nolan is more experienced at that position in the Duke offense. So yes, I think Tyler will only play garbage minutes; Kyrie and Nolan are after all decent defenders and distributors. Even if not Kyrie or Nolan, you'd think Seth would play the 1 before Tyler.

Seth, Andre and Felix will play the remaining 54 minutes at the 2 and 3 -- this is likely the biggest question mark for our team. Who should get most of the minutes?
- Seth because he is older and a proven scorer despite being a slender 6'1?
- Andre who is the most highly rated coming out of high school?
- Felix for his size and defense?

I think the answer will depend on match-ups.
- Seth will play all the minutes at the 2 when Nolan isn't there, i.e. 16 minutes, and the rest at the 3 when we go small ball
- With the logjam at the 1 and 2, Andre will likely spend all his time at the 3
- Felix will play when we need size and defense vs. scoring, and only at the 3

So much of everything is chemistry and gelling and this might take a while to happen given we have so much talent on the perimeter. Let's hope Nolan can be an effective leader and get guys to understand their roles.

In a way, I quite feel bad for Seth. When he joined this team we desperately needed guards. He probably joined Duke envisioning himself playing the 1 and 2 with Nolan for the entire 80 minutes available. Then Kyrie decided to come to Duke and that changed things quite a bit; Seth just might be the odd person out given that there's no way we can play a 6'1, 6'1 and 6'2 perimeter for many minutes.

But this can be a scary team. We have dribble penetration in Kyrie and Nolan. We have shooting in Nolan, Seth and Andre. We have plenty of depth at ALL positions. Our post will have size AND speed if not consistent scoring/rebounding/defense.

If things fall the right way, I can see this team making a deep run into the tourney.

theAlaskanBear
04-11-2010, 11:00 AM
While Josh is ranked highly coming from high school, so were Mason and Ryan and Ryan averaged only 6.5 minutes a game. That said I think the two Plumlees, Ryan and Josh will use the 80 minutes available at the 4 and 5; while it might be possible to put Ryan at the 3, we simply have too many good perimeter players to play. Thus...

Mason: 25 min
Miles: 25 min
Ryan: 20 min
Josh: 10 min

25 minutes per game is what Lance played this season. It's entirely possible that Mason and Miles will play more, but it'll depend on foul trouble and conditioning. If they play more minutes it'll be a good sign for our team.

What's actually going to be really interesting is how our perimeter minutes are divided. It's not easy to figure out strategically because next year we will have so many options. Who will take the shots? How do we trade off offense for defense? Here's how I see the 120 minutes being allocated...

Nolan: 34 min
Kyrie: 29 min
Seth: 20 min
Andre: 20 min
Felix: 16 min
Tyler: 1 min

Kyrie will spend all of his time at the 1, but I don't think he will play Jon like minutes. For one, he's a freshman and will make freshman mistakes. He will occasionally get into foul trouble and at some point in the season will no doubt hit the freshman wall.

But I don't think Tyler is the main back-up. When Kyrie sits on the bench, Nolan will play point guard for the other 10 minutes. Nolan instead of Seth because Nolan is more experienced at that position in the Duke offense. So yes, I think Tyler will only play garbage minutes; Kyrie and Nolan are after all decent defenders and distributors. Even if not Kyrie or Nolan, you'd think Seth would play the 1 before Tyler.

Seth, Andre and Felix will play the remaining 54 minutes at the 2 and 3 -- this is likely the biggest question mark for our team. Who should get most of the minutes?
- Seth because he is older and a proven scorer and despite being a slender 6'1?
- Andre who is the most highly rated coming out of high school?
- Felix for his size and defense?

I think the answer will depend on match-ups.
- Seth will play all the minutes at the 2 when Nolan isn't there, i.e. 16 minutes, and the rest at the 3 when we go small ball
- Andre will play all 20 minutes at the 3
- Felix will play when we need size and defense at the 3 vs. scoring

So much of everything is chemistry and gelling and this might take a while to happen given we have so much talent on the perimeter. Let's hope Nolan can be an effective leader and get guys to understand their roles.

In a way, I quite feel bad for Seth. When he joined this team we desperately needed guards. He probably joined Duke envisioning himself playing the 1 and 2 with Nolan for the entire 80 minutes available. Then Kyrie decided to come to Duke and that changed things quite a bit; Seth just might be the odd person out given that there's no way we can play a 6'1, 6'1 and 6'2 perimeter for many minutes.

But this can be a scary team. We have dribble penetration in Kyrie and Nolan. We have shooting in Nolan, Seth and Andre. We have plenty of depth at ALL positions. Our post will have size AND speed if not consistent scoring/rebounding/defense.

If things fall the right way, I can see this team making a deep run into the tourney.

Is Seth Curry really only a pure shooting guard at this point? I completely disagree. I think that Seth will actually spend significant minutes at "point". If you look at his ball-handling/passing/scoring at Liberty, hes a dynamic guard in his brothers mold. I know Seth isn't the same as Stephen, but their games are similar, and I think Seth will see a lot of the ball handling opportunities.

I see Kyrie playing more like 20-25 minutes as an incoming freshman. Seth will play more minutes than Irving or Andre, definitely more than 30 a game. He has gotten a chance to learn Duke play for a whole practice year. In no way is he the odd man out. Lets remember one of the keys to Nolan's growth was K removing him from point and letting Scheyer take over most of the responsibility.

So Seth will probably get all of of the 1 minutes when Irving is on the bench, all of nolans bench minutes, and some time at the #3. I have seen in papers Curry is listed at 6-3, thats the same height at Andre. He scored 26 and 24 points against Virginia and Clemson. Over 700 points as a freshman scorer. I don't care where you are playing, thats good. There is footage of him crossing over and making a Winthrop and a W&M player fall down. Those are very solid mid-majors. W&M tore through the ACC this year.

jimsumner
04-11-2010, 11:57 AM
From eye-balling them up close and personal, I would say that Dawkins is about two inches taller than Curry. He also has a much superior vertical and is much more suited to play the 3 than is Curry.

Curry will be an invaluable addition to Duke next season and even more so in 2012, following the departure of Smith. Right now he's a shooting guard who can play point in a pinch. Nolan Smith is a shooting guard who can play point in a pinch. Nolan is a better PG than Curry.

Irving is a better point guard than either. Barring injury, he will play a lot more than 20 mpg next season. A whole lot more.

if you think K has any reluctance in turning the team over to a freshman PG, then I would remind you of Tommy Amaker, Bobby Hurley, Jeff Capel, Jason Williams and Greg Paulus, all of whom were given the keys to the car from day one. Expect the same of Irving.

theAlaskanBear
04-11-2010, 12:02 PM
From eye-balling them up close and personal, I would say that Dawkins is about two inches taller than Curry. He also has a much superior vertical and is much more suited to play the 3 than is Curry.

Curry will be an invaluable addition to Duke next season and even more so in 2012, following the departure of Smith. Right now he's a shooting guard who can play point in a pinch. Nolan Smith is a shooting guard who can play point in a pinch. Nolan is a better PG than Curry.

Irving is a better point guard than either. Barring injury, he will play a lot more than 20 mpg next season. A whole lot more.

if you think K has any reluctance in turning the team over to a freshman PG, then I would remind you of Tommy Amaker, Bobby Hurley, Jeff Capel, Jason Williams and Greg Paulus, all of whom were given the keys to the car from day one. Expect the same of Irving.

Thanks for your expertise. I agree about Dawkins. What skills/abilities have you noticed that make Nolan a better PG than Curry?

DukeBlood
04-11-2010, 12:08 PM
From eye-balling them up close and personal, I would say that Dawkins is about two inches taller than Curry. He also has a much superior vertical and is much more suited to play the 3 than is Curry.


What are the expecatations for Andre? Do you see him as a starter? Or more of a 6th man with m ajor minutes?

Cockabeau
04-11-2010, 12:30 PM
Yeah but Curry is quicker and has better ball handling ability than does Dawkins....

theAlaskanBear
04-11-2010, 01:02 PM
Yeah but Curry is quicker and has better ball handling ability than does Dawkins....

At this stage of his career, definitely. Dawkins may be a prototypical wing man, but Curry does bring other skills to table. can you imagine a defense trying to worry about three guys who can break you down off the dribble (Irving, Smith, Curry)?

jimsumner
04-11-2010, 01:22 PM
Smith is quicker than Curry and has a marginally better handle. He can get inside better off the dribble. Curry is a slightly better shooter. Plus, Smith has three years of experience playing some PG against the highest-level competition.

Remember Countdown to Crazy? Duke changed up sides at halftime. In half number one, Scheyer and Smith were on one team, Curry on the other. Smith was on Curry and absolutely chewed him up. Curry's team simply could not get into its offense.

In half two, Curry played off the ball and got one good look after another. Now that was October and Curry has had lots of time practicing against Smith and Scheyer and lots of that time has been at the point. So, one would presume some improvement.

Smith and Curry would both have to play point at the next level, so I suspect we'll see Curry play some point in 2012 and 2013. But I fully expect Smith to move to point next season when Irving is on the bench.

Dawkins? If Singler returns, then Dawkins fights Felix for back-up minutes at the 3. If Singler goes NBA, then it's a dogfight for PT.

I've mentioned this before but I'll repeat because it's a big question. Under what circumstances can Duke play Smith, Irving and Curry at the same time? Can any one of these guys guard a good 6'5" wing? A 6'7" wing? When do the obvious advantages outweigh the obvious disadvantages? The answers to these questions will greatly impact Dawkins' role.

Dawkins has a pretty high ceiling, IMO. But he's got an important summer. He needs to refine his handle, get stronger and prove he can play Duke D well enough to justify being on the court.

dukeimac
04-11-2010, 02:00 PM
This talk is all fine but I'm not sure people are taking everything into consideration.

Kelly had an illness last summer and it didn't allow him to develop. Thus, he is behind in development (remember Zo and what happened with his injuries). His role will all depend on if Singler comes back. Even if he doesn't, I think Duke is fit to go in another direction, like small because of all the guards. Thus, his junior year will be important for him.

Kyrie will be wearing the #1. No way this guy spends much time on the bench. Thus, you need to take that into consideration.

How has Curry developed? We haven't seen this, we have heard about him. Some say he is Duke's best shooter 'this year." We know he can play the PG, he did at Liberty. So do they play him at the SG. Then what about Nolan? Nolan's experience will be valuable next year but if things go as people say, about 30 minutes how will that effect him. We don't know how he would adjust to that and should he?

What will Andre be like if he comes back with his confidence brimming? Was his defense affected by his lack of confidence? If he gets his confidence back will his defense be strong? Usually when a guy is not playing well on offense their defense suffers, especially for Freshman and Sophomores. If he works with Nolan in the off season things could look real special for him.

I think confidence could be a factor in the Plumless. Mason was built up so much and that might have been too much for a freshman. People were looking past Miles to Mason and that could have hurt. I think Miles made great strides from last year to this year. If he get his confidence up I think he will play well next year; using Zo as an example. With a year under his belt Mason should look good.

I think the common thread was the confidence Scheyer, Nolan and Singler had this year. Sometimes it was 2 and others it was all 3. But confidence was the thread. Next year, some players need to develop some new confidence and things will go just fine.

MChambers
04-11-2010, 02:08 PM
I've mentioned this before but I'll repeat because it's a big question. Under what circumstances can Duke play Smith, Irving and Curry at the same time? Can any one of these guys guard a good 6'5" wing? A 6'7" wing? When do the obvious advantages outweigh the obvious disadvantages? The answers to these questions will greatly impact Dawkins' role.
This is a big question.

Didn't Smith match up with Vazquez at Duke this year? Pretty sure that was the case, and Vazquez supposedly is 6'6". Of course, he's not the most physical of players that size and mostly plays outside, so maybe it's not the best analogy. When Mazzula was out of the WVa game, Nolan was matched up with a really big player (don't remember who).

So I could see Nolan matching up on the other team's big wing. Not ideal, but I could see it.

Also, if we have the lead down the stretch in games, having those three guys in to handle, shoot free throws, and defend the three will be nice.

Having said that, I do think Dawkins has a very good opportunity to play big minutes next year, since he should be able to match up with a 6'6" wing, and I expect him to make big strikes in the offseason. (I'm assuming Singler will not be back.)

fgb
04-11-2010, 02:12 PM
one possibility is that everyone plays; given our talent level, depth, and speed/quickness next season, i could see k deciding to press for much of any given game, which would require a lot of fresh legs. if he showed anything this year, he showed that he is as good as anyone at coaching to his team's strengths; next season, one of our great strengths is going to be our depth, and our athleticism. we will be alarmingly un-unathletic.

amazing to think that we could still add haynes, who would of course be way down the chart, but who i could still see being at times useful; a player as strong as i hear he is, and undersized in terms of height, can really use a lower center of gravity as an advantage when fighting for rebounding position against other teams bigs.

amat1129
04-11-2010, 02:40 PM
i think the post rotation will consist of the MP's starting and then taking one out at around the 4 min mark then staggering their playing time with another big, RK or Hairston and possibly going small with KS. I think staggering their playing time will enable them to stay out of foul trouble and be fresh to play together down the stretch of games, roughly the last 8-7 min.

Cockabeau
04-11-2010, 02:46 PM
Ryan Kelly falls into the dreaded tweener category and not the good kind of tweener. He is too slow to be a 3 and too weak to be a 4.

However, his skills are off the chart. I am sure K will find a way to use this kid.

DukieInBrasil
04-11-2010, 02:53 PM
What's actually going to be really interesting is how our perimeter minutes are divided. It's not easy to figure out strategically because next year we will have so many options. Who will take the shots? How do we trade off offense for defense? Here's how I see the 120 minutes being allocated...

Nolan: 34 min
Kyrie: 29 min
Seth: 20 min
Andre: 20 min
Felix: 16 min
Tyler: 1 min

Kyrie will spend all of his time at the 1, but I don't think he will play Jon like minutes. For one, he's a freshman and will make freshman mistakes. He will occasionally get into foul trouble and at some point in the season will no doubt hit the freshman wall.

But I don't think Tyler is the main back-up. When Kyrie sits on the bench, Nolan will play point guard for the other 10 minutes. Nolan instead of Seth because Nolan is more experienced at that position in the Duke offense. So yes, I think Tyler will only play garbage minutes; Kyrie and Nolan are after all decent defenders and distributors. Even if not Kyrie or Nolan, you'd think Seth would play the 1 before Tyler.

If things fall the right way, I can see this team making a deep run into the tourney.

Although I agree with you that Ty won't be the main back-up at the PG, first Nolan and then Seth and then TT. However, I can't see how Nolan would need to play 34 minutes, meaning that more minutes would be available to TT. Your mpg listed above may in fact be what we see in lots of ACC or otherwise big games, but I think you've oversold Nolan and undersold Tyler if those numbers are season-long averages. Part of this is that I believe we're gonna be blowing so many teams out that Nolan will be relaxing on the bench forthe last 10 minutes

jimsumner
04-11-2010, 03:02 PM
"Ryan Kelly falls into the dreaded tweener category and not the good kind of tweener. He is too slow to be a 3 and too weak to be a 4."

That's why they invented weight rooms.

stillcrazie
04-11-2010, 04:32 PM
"Ryan Kelly falls into the dreaded tweener category and not the good kind of tweener. He is too slow to be a 3 and too weak to be a 4."

That's why they invented weight rooms.

Weight rooms and food. I would love for Coach K to hire me to follow Ryan Kelly around with a platter of food all day. Wake up - eat. Go to class - eat. Weight room - eat. Practice - eat. I think I could handle the job.

roywhite
04-11-2010, 05:35 PM
Weight rooms and food. I would love for Coach K to hire me to follow Ryan Kelly around with a platter of food all day. Wake up - eat. Go to class - eat. Weight room - eat. Practice - eat. I think I could handle the job.

I think there is an opening for this sort of work in Chapel Hill. Contact Ole Roy and tell him how much you could help John Henson.

gumbomoop
04-11-2010, 06:18 PM
I've mentioned this before but I'll repeat because it's a big question. Under what circumstances can Duke play Smith, Irving and Curry at the same time? Can any one of these guys guard a good 6'5" wing? A 6'7" wing? When do the obvious advantages outweigh the obvious disadvantages? The answers to these questions will greatly impact Dawkins' role.

Because I'm convinced that both NS and KI will play the most mpg throughout the season, and especially late-season, this is indeed a big question.

Two further assumptions: KS does not return, and SC is really good on O. So, if I'm right that KI and NS will be on the court most of the time together, especially late-season and tourney-time, that means that, unless SC is a bust, those 3 will play together maybe 15-20 mpg. In this circumstance, I noted in earlier post [#92, this thread] that Butler's guys provided a model for this problem. They played 3 guys in the 6'-6"2 range with some frequency. It sure looks like it worked pretty well for them over the season and in the tourney.

Now it does require fierce defense. One of the main reasons the NC was great was fierce defense. The game was intense, and that usually means every point is hard-won against hard defenses. Intelligent observers - this eliminates The Haters and The Stoopids - commented on this. That the winning team scored a mere 61 points did not mean it was a dull game. Indeed, the immediate response of more than a few was, instant classic. Defense.

So, can our 3 guys, facing this problem when they are on the court together, make it hard for the opposing team to manipulate the size advantage? Here's my thought: (1) Butler model. (2) When posted up, help side stuffs from MPs. (3) There won't be that much posting up [unlike NBA teams, who exploit every advantage forever]. (4) Even those teams that would like to post up to exploit the advantage, don't always have efficient O to do it. Our short defender must overplay, and get weak-side help.

I am perfectly willing to admit that this problem will be a big, big problem v. HB/UNC. One hopes that CF can actually contribute by mid-season. Maybe some other teams will have the talent and intent to exploit this problem, and K needs to have a plan. It's a safe bet that he and the staff will have thought about it. It is a real problem; it is not fatal.

Duvall
04-11-2010, 06:31 PM
Ryan Kelly falls into the dreaded tweener category and not the good kind of tweener. He is too slow to be a 3 and too weak to be a 4.

However, his skills are off the chart. I am sure K will find a way to use this kid.

A skinny and slow 6'10" player is not a tweener; he's a post player that needs to hit the weight room.

ice-9
04-11-2010, 08:30 PM
Although I agree with you that Ty won't be the main back-up at the PG, first Nolan and then Seth and then TT. However, I can't see how Nolan would need to play 34 minutes, meaning that more minutes would be available to TT. Your mpg listed above may in fact be what we see in lots of ACC or otherwise big games, but I think you've oversold Nolan and undersold Tyler if those numbers are season-long averages. Part of this is that I believe we're gonna be blowing so many teams out that Nolan will be relaxing on the bench forthe last 10 minutes

That is a good point, but I also think with all the players and possible configurations we have Nolan will still play a lot of minutes as Coach K experiments with different lineups early in the season.

Then in ACC and post season play we will need Nolan's senior leadership.

fgb
04-11-2010, 08:35 PM
we could have a "blue team" next year.

COYS
04-12-2010, 02:13 AM
we could have a "blue team" next year.

We will have a very good blue team next year. If Kyle returns, the blue team could include Seth, 'Dre, Carrick, Joshua and Ryan. No way that team beats the white team on most nights, but it could steal a win and definitely could finish somewhere in the third tier of the ACC.