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View Full Version : Kyle Singler, Jon Scheyer, and Nolan Smith's minutes



DukieBoy
04-06-2010, 08:47 AM
I think they are all playing far too many minutes per game for us to ever win a national title.

:)

Had to start it. I'm just one happy man today.

CBDUKE
04-06-2010, 08:54 AM
I had the exact same thought during the game last night. No way we can win because they played to many minutes this year.

dukeimac
04-06-2010, 09:13 AM
I think it is time for those who questioned Coach K and his style to step forward and admit they don't know as much as this game as the Coach does.

And then forever hold their piece.

NSDukeFan
04-06-2010, 09:16 AM
I think they are all playing far too many minutes per game for us to ever win a national title.

:)

Had to start it. I'm just one happy man today.

I can't believe 2 of them played 40 minutes. I wonder if playing heavy minutes this year allowed them to play the full game at highest intensity when we needed them?

miramar
04-06-2010, 10:06 AM
Once again, Coach K defies the so-called experts.

I suspect that one of the reasons Coach K had Zoubs miss the second free throw was that the big three played 40-40-37 minutes while the two bigs had four fouls each. I think he wanted to avoid overtime at all costs, and was willing to gamble a bit on Butler's final shot.

Blue KevIL
04-07-2010, 11:08 PM
Two things:

#1 - Coach K talked about the miss on Mike & Mike this morning and said that he felt that the missed FT would create a chaotic scenario for Butler that would make a half-court shot even more difficult. I see this as a sign of respect for the coaching ability of Brad Stevens because Coach K knew that Butler would be better prepared to run a play on an inbound after a made FT.

#2 - Minutes played by the Big 3 this season were A LOT by Duke standards. Jon Scheyer played 1470 minutes, Kyle Singler played 1436 minutes, and Nolan Smith played 1349 minutes (keep in mind he sat out the first two games this season). Those minutes rank #1 Scheyer, #2 Singler, and #5 Smith all-time in Duke history for minutes played in an individual season -- Shane Battier in 2001 (#3 with 1363 minutes) and Bobby Hurley in 1991 (#4 with 1353 minutes) fill out the Top 5.

David
04-07-2010, 11:50 PM
#2 - Minutes played by the Big 3 this season were A LOT by Duke standards. Jon Scheyer played 1470 minutes, Kyle Singler played 1436 minutes, and Nolan Smith played 1349 minutes (keep in mind he sat out the first two games this season). Those minutes rank #1 Scheyer, #2 Singler, and #5 Smith all-time in Duke history for minutes played in an individual season -- Shane Battier in 2001 (#3 with 1363 minutes) and Bobby Hurley in 1991 (#4 with 1353 minutes) fill out the Top 5.

I hadn't seen this - thanks for posting. If Smith had played those first 2 games, then the big 3 would have ranked 1-2-3 in minutes played in a season. Wow.

mgtr
04-07-2010, 11:54 PM
Yes, and it was clear that they just couldn't handle it at the end of the season!!!!:rolleyes: Those of us who second-guess Coach K need to rethink our logic. I apologize.

Verga3
04-07-2010, 11:57 PM
I think they are all playing far too many minutes per game for us to ever win a national title.

:)

Had to start it. I'm just one happy man today.

They ran out of gas just as they reached their destination....great fuel management.

GoingFor#5
04-07-2010, 11:58 PM
I always agreed with Coach K on this. When I was 20-22, I could play basketball every day for 2 hours when I wanted to. The older guys were like, "you play every day? how do you do that?" You bounce back quickly at that age. Now, even at a young 27, I like to have at least a day and preferably more rest so I think all these analysts have just forgotten how quickly a 22 year old can recover.

VaDukie
04-07-2010, 11:59 PM
I remember an offseason interview after Elliot but before Andre where Nolan said something like. "We aren't worried. Jon and I are preparing this offseason and conditioning hard so we can be the best backcourt in the country."

Truer words have never been spoken.

juise
04-08-2010, 12:00 AM
I hadn't seen this - thanks for posting. If Smith had played those first 2 games, then the big 3 would have ranked 1-2-3 in minutes played in a season. Wow.

I had the same thought. It seems like comparing MPG would be a little more fair since this team is tied for the most games played in Duke history (the second to cross the 40 game mark after 85-86).

Blue KevIL
04-08-2010, 01:06 AM
In the Coach K era, 21 players have averaged more than 35 minutes per game:


1306 … 34 … 38.41 … 1984 … Johnny Dawkins
1037 … 27 … 38.41 … 1982 … Vince Taylor
1008 … 27 … 37.33 … 1982 … Chip Engelland
1231 … 33 … 37.30 … 2005 … JJ Redick
1336 … 36 … 37.11 … 2006 … JJ Redick
1470 … 40 … 36.75 … 2010 … Jon Scheyer
1235 … 34 … 36.32 … 1984 … Tommy Amaker
1117 … 31 … 36.03 … 1985 … Johnny Dawkins
1188 … 33 … 36.00 … 2003 … Chris Duhon
1436 … 40 … 35.90 … 2010 … Kyle Singler
1002 … 28 … 35.79 … 1983 … Johnny Dawkins
1213 … 34 … 35.68 … 1994 … Grant Hill
1212 … 34 … 35.65 … 2000 … Chris Carrawell
1175 … 33 … 35.61 … 1987 … Tommy Amaker
1138 … 32 … 35.56 … 1993 … Bobby Hurley
1349 … 38 … 35.50 … 2010 … Nolan Smith
1206 … 34 … 35.47 … 2000 … Shane Battier
1311 … 37 … 35.43 … 2004 … Chris Duhon
1164 … 33 … 35.27 … 2007 … Josh McRoberts
1092 … 31 … 35.23 … 1995 … Cherokee Parks
1229 … 35 … 35.11 … 2002 … Chris Duhon

juise
04-08-2010, 02:32 AM
In the Coach K era, 21 players have averaged more than 35 minutes per game:

Thanks for posting that. I was wondering. Also, I would say that this year's big three are in even more select company. I count only 15 players who have averaged over 35mpg (Dawkins X3, Duhon X3, Amaker X2, JJ X2). That's impressive stuff.

Spam Filter
04-08-2010, 04:39 AM
In the Coach K era, 21 players have averaged more than 35 minutes per game:


1306 … 34 … 38.41 … 1984 … Johnny Dawkins
1037 … 27 … 38.41 … 1982 … Vince Taylor
1008 … 27 … 37.33 … 1982 … Chip Engelland
1231 … 33 … 37.30 … 2005 … JJ Redick
1336 … 36 … 37.11 … 2006 … JJ Redick
1470 … 40 … 36.75 … 2010 … Jon Scheyer
1235 … 34 … 36.32 … 1984 … Tommy Amaker
1117 … 31 … 36.03 … 1985 … Johnny Dawkins
1188 … 33 … 36.00 … 2003 … Chris Duhon
1436 … 40 … 35.90 … 2010 … Kyle Singler
1002 … 28 … 35.79 … 1983 … Johnny Dawkins
1213 … 34 … 35.68 … 1994 … Grant Hill
1212 … 34 … 35.65 … 2000 … Chris Carrawell
1175 … 33 … 35.61 … 1987 … Tommy Amaker
1138 … 32 … 35.56 … 1993 … Bobby Hurley
1349 … 38 … 35.50 … 2010 … Nolan Smith
1206 … 34 … 35.47 … 2000 … Shane Battier
1311 … 37 … 35.43 … 2004 … Chris Duhon
1164 … 33 … 35.27 … 2007 … Josh McRoberts
1092 … 31 … 35.23 … 1995 … Cherokee Parks
1229 … 35 … 35.11 … 2002 … Chris Duhon


Also interesting to note that on that list, prior to 2010, Duhon 2004 and Hill 1994 were the only 2 players whose teams made the FF.

In other words 2010 was more an aberration than anything else, that the usual Duke team that gets to the FF have enough depth that they don't need any one player to log so many minutes.

We should be deeper next year and hopefully not require anyone to log more than 35 MPG.

gumbomoop
04-08-2010, 06:22 AM
We should be deeper next year and hopefully not require anyone to log more than 35 MPG.

I'd guess no one will average 35 over the season, but that by late season, ACCT, NCAA NC [!], K will shorten bench and NS and KI [and KS if he returns] will play 37-38 mpg then.

ACCBBallFan
04-08-2010, 10:56 AM
I'd guess no one will average 35 over the season, but that by late season, ACCT, NCAA NC [!], K will shorten bench and NS and KI [and KS if he returns] will play 37-38 mpg then.

This year there was a huge gap bioth in terms of number of players and skill level that forced the big 3 to be ploayed so much.

Next year with basically Irving and Curry replacing Jon, plus Andre having the full Summer and a year under his belt, MPG for Nolan should go down.

Duke will have three viable PG options in Irving, Thornton and Curry, not even counting Nolan.

Duke won't have another Kyle type since he can not only play the Offensive and rebounding role he played this year but also the defensive role and robounding role Lance played, so yes his minutes would again be in the 30's if he returns.

But with the extra year in the system Dawkins and Kelly can take a few more of Kyle's MPG in certain situations and Felix may be able to be a defensive specialist when that is needed while Kyle takes a break.

Duke is certianly better off with Kyke back, but if he elects to go league this year, that opens minutes for Curry at combo guard backing up Kyrie/Nolan by moving Andre to WF in more of a Gerald Henderson/Demarcus Nelson role, opens up minutes for Kelly and Dawkins to be the Offensive mismatch Kyle was and perhaps opens up minutes for Carrick Felix if he is the next Dave McClure/ Lance Thomas glue guy.

Without Kyle's flexibility, Duke is pretty much committed to a 3 guard look with less rebounding and more passing lanes defense up tempo style but that has worked well for Duke in past too.

As good as Lance was on Defense, he was a drain on Offensve and as good as Zoubek became and Scheyer always was, team speed suffered. So Duke can play quicker leveraging speed, alley oops, break aways etc for the things they are losing, while still having a big 3 of scorers (actually 4 scorers sharing 3 slots, so more depth) and a true PG.

The missing ingredient would be the great defender of the best big that Lance provided, if no Kyle.

COYS
04-08-2010, 11:07 AM
Also interesting to note that on that list, prior to 2010, Duhon 2004 and Hill 1994 were the only 2 players whose teams made the FF.

In other words 2010 was more an aberration than anything else, that the usual Duke team that gets to the FF have enough depth that they don't need any one player to log so many minutes.

We should be deeper next year and hopefully not require anyone to log more than 35 MPG.

I would bet that this year was also an aberration in terms of the average pace of Duke games. As has been well documented, we played far more slowly this year than K would generally prefer to play and our pace actually slowed down as the season went on. I'm not sure how much of a difference pace makes in terms of determining how grueling a 40 minute game can be, but I am definitely sure that limiting the number of times that our guys needed to sprint down the court helped out a lot. I haven't been able to find pace statistics for Duke teams that far back.

GoingFor#5
04-08-2010, 11:29 AM
Also interesting to note that on that list, prior to 2010, Duhon 2004 and Hill 1994 were the only 2 players whose teams made the FF.

In other words 2010 was more an aberration than anything else, that the usual Duke team that gets to the FF have enough depth that they don't need any one player to log so many minutes.

We should be deeper next year and hopefully not require anyone to log more than 35 MPG.

Also some of our previous FF teams probably won by a higher average margin so K could rest guys in blowouts.