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Duke4Ever32
04-06-2010, 01:10 AM
According to the News and Observer after tonight's game:

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/dukes-smith-says-he-will-return-singler-undecided

OldSchool
04-06-2010, 01:13 AM
Part of Nolan's quote:



"This squad, coming in next year ... it could be something special. Back-to-back champs could be our future."

Oh, yesssss!!!!

juise
04-06-2010, 01:27 AM
Hmmm.... how does Nolan play in Reliant Stadium? Yes please!

ACCBBallFan
04-06-2010, 01:34 AM
Nolan is correct, especially if Singler returns, but edge might go to Butler if Hayward and Mack return and they get some backup bigs to add depth to replace Jukes and replace Veasley.

This presupposes their brilliant young coach gets a much deserved raise and stays at Butler.

terrih
04-06-2010, 01:38 AM
Nolan is just a super young man! So glad he is a Duke guy!

muzikfrk75
04-06-2010, 01:44 AM
Me being selfish (lol) I think that Kyle should stay another year, but with that stupid lockout that's coming...

Duke #33
04-06-2010, 01:46 AM
Me being selfish (lol) I think that Kyle should stay another year, but with that stupid lockout that's coming...

ive heard people say this, but what do they mean by the lockout?
I mean, theres always a chance of that, so how likely is there to be missed games?
not to pick on you, but just want to know the details.

LSanders
04-06-2010, 01:47 AM
BTW ... Kyle's quote:


"I'll just talk to coach and get his opinion, talk to my family. ... I'm just going to let myself be open to what Coach has to say, because he has my best interest [at heart]."

papa whiskey
04-06-2010, 01:58 AM
Me being selfish (lol) I think that Kyle should stay another year, but with that stupid lockout that's coming...

If there is a lockout, Kyle will miss one season of earning potential regardless of when he leaves. It would be his first or second year. I dont' really see the difference.

DevilHorns
04-06-2010, 02:03 AM
If there is a lockout, Kyle will miss one season of earning potential regardless of when he leaves. It would be his first or second year. I dont' really see the difference.

Speculation here, you would be right in terms of "one season of earning potential" lost, but if he left next year he may not have the benefit of signing a more readily available lucrative contract this year.... meaning, next year lottery picks may take a hit money-wise. pure speculation.

papa whiskey
04-06-2010, 02:12 AM
Speculation here, you would be right in terms of "one season of earning potential" lost, but if he left next year he may not have the benefit of signing a more readily available lucrative contract this year.... meaning, next year lottery picks may take a hit money-wise. pure speculation.

Could not agree more. Nobody knows for sure what a new CBA will mean for draft picks. However, I do believe that an additional year of being a focal point for Duke's offense will be more positive to his development than most likely getting limited minutes off the bench for an NBA team. IMHO

muzikfrk75
04-06-2010, 02:15 AM
ive heard people say this, but what do they mean by the lockout?
I mean, theres always a chance of that, so how likely is there to be missed games?
not to pick on you, but just want to know the details.

The NBA's current CBA (collective bargaining agreement aka the agreement between the owners and the player's association) ends after the 2010-2011 season. If there isn't a new agreement finalized there will be a work stoppage (lockout) starting Sept 2011.

Partly bc of the economy the NBA is losing mad money which is making the salary cap smaller this year and probably even smaller next year (which I think is why Kobe was able to sign a monster 3 year/90 mil extension this season).

Basically any salaries and contracts that are made after the 2011 season may be smaller. Significantly smaller...which is why you'll probably see an influx of players declaring for the draft this year that have no business declaring. And on top of that there's the new rule stating that you have to decide by May 8...

Hopefully I kinda answered your question :D

Jackson
04-06-2010, 05:51 AM
I wonder how much last night's game will impact Singler's draft prospects. Everything I had seen showed him to be a lat first round pick at best. Does winning a National Title propel him higher up the ladder. Throughout this year, I had hoped about next year and Kyle coming back. It seems as if next year came one year early. I would love it if Kyle played his senior year. A run at two in a row, NPOY, All-American, and the subsequent retiring of # 12, but I have to think that he is gone. In his case, would he move up a lot after a stellar senior season i.e. JJ Redick or would he fall like Hanstravel did?

oldnavy
04-06-2010, 06:26 AM
Not a big NBA pundent, but I cannot imagine that Kyle staying could possibly hurt his draft status. He will be playing with KI and Seth Curry, in addition to the others coming back. That could be a very special team, and he most certainly would be a if not THE focal point of that team.

bluepenguin
04-06-2010, 06:31 AM
Kyle's quote:
"I'll just talk to coach and get his opinion, talk to my family. ... I'm just going to let myself be open to what Coach has to say, because he has my best interest [at heart]."

How many times do we hear this from players and it always translates to: "Heck yeah I'm going, but I want to make it appear like I am listening to people who know better than me."

And this quote combined with Nolan's "slip" after the WVa game saying he didn't want it to be the last game for Jon, Lance and Kyle, really makes me think he is gone. I sure hope not, but I'm not expecting to see him in a Duke uniform next season.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-06-2010, 06:37 AM
Hey he won us a title, if he wants to go fine, good for him, good luck in the nba we wish you the best, but we would for him to stay.

Saratoga2
04-06-2010, 06:37 AM
Singler and Smith would definitely be captains of the team and provide the senior leadership that could take this team back to the ACC tournament, with a good chance to advance to the final four. I hope Singler comes back but realize there are many considerations for him. He greatly improved this year and would be recgnized as one of the top college players at the start of the season

Matches
04-06-2010, 07:09 AM
Hey he won us a title, if he wants to go fine, good for him, good luck in the nba we wish you the best, but we would for him to stay.

This. Would LOVE to have him back, but if the opportunity is there for Kyle to play in the NBA next year, I'd hope no one would begrudge him pursuing it.

NYDukie
04-06-2010, 07:27 AM
1. They just won a national championship and are getting peppered with questions about next year not two minutes after winning it this year. There is a lot of emotion and guys either say the first thing that comes to mind or a statemetn they have practiced over and over the past few weeks in their mind.

2. Kyle, and Nolan for that matter, as juniors can both test the process and come back and not fear not being able to test it again, as a sophmore would. Meaning if they declare, they still can pull out of the draft before "X" date before the draft and come back. Whereas, if they were sophmores and did this, they couldn't do the same thing after their junior years.

3. How many of us said before and during the seasaon we would take a national championship if it meant Kyle going off, even Nolan for that matter and then them leaving early as a result? I know I would! Without them, Kyle specifically for this argument, producing as they did, we would not be having this conversation possibly. So in the end, I will take it.

4. Kyle owes the fans nothing. He has bleed Duke blue and has left it on the court every time in my opinion. He goes to class, does well and carries himself properly. He has earned the right to test the NBA draft waters in my opinion and if he has a good shot at a good draft position, so be.

That said, I would love for him to come back as I think the returning team combined with the newcomers would have a reasonable shot at a repeat and be preseason top 3-4 I believe along with Purdue, MSU and Butler off the top of my head. Either way, I loved what Kyle and the team did! GOOO DUKE!!!

DukieBoy
04-06-2010, 07:43 AM
I take nothing said within a week of a title or devastating loss to heart. Wait until May or whenever the declare date is before I start getting giddy about next year

dukeimac
04-06-2010, 08:01 AM
In years past I was always saying players should stay. Lately, with injuries, I've been saying they need to go when they can.

I think the issue here, with Kyle, is "when they can." I believe Kyle will play in the NBA but I'm not sure he is NBA ready. He is a very good college player and having him back next year might mean a repeat (I know the UNC fans just cringe when that is said). He has done well moving without the ball but not NBA well. Games like he had against Baylor shouldn't happen. In the NBA he will play against taller, lankier guys (like Baylor had) and he needs to be ready for that, he still needs to produce. He needs to be very good with the dribble. In the NBA he won't get the screens to shot off of so he will need to be able to put it on the floor. He needs to work on that. He can do that but that is at the college level.

It reminds me of JJ. In college he got screens to shot off of but in the NBA he isn't getting that and he struggled, getting better but still struggled. I think Kyle should learn from this before he goes to the NBA.

Having said that I hope he does test the waters. I have a couple of paid sites for NBA scouts and of the five only 1 of them have him going in the first round. There are too many guys like him that they have going ahead of him. Their analysis of him is a good set shooter but not a good enough dribbler for the NBA. He rebounds well for his size. But needs to improve his defense. He plays good defense against guys smaller than him but guys his size or bigger there is an issue. If he plays good defense it affects his offense. I think he should get some feedback from the pro scouts to make his determination. But if he is not in the top 20 he has to return. My fear is if JJ was taken so high in the draft, with no guaranteed money, he might not be in the NBA today.

Kyle needs to good enough to be considered a starter or close to starting in the NBA. Many of the good college players don't play so well in the pros coming off the bench. Starting all your life and then coming off the bench is a whole different world and some just can't adjust to that.

#4 for Coach K

Troublemaker
04-06-2010, 08:04 AM
Kyle, do whatever you want to do, man. We'll support you all the way. (You, too, Nolan -- if it turns out that you change your mind).

TampaDukie
04-06-2010, 08:30 AM
Kyle, do whatever you want to do, man. We'll support you all the way. (You, too, Nolan -- if it turns out that you change your mind).
This. I would love it if those guys stayed, but I could never begrudge them for leaving. They have given us a national championship that exceeded every expectation I ever had for them. I will always be grateful for that and supportive of their future endeavors.

DukeGirl4ever
04-06-2010, 08:42 AM
2. Kyle, and Nolan for that matter, as juniors can both test the process and come back and not fear not being able to test it again, as a sophmore would. Meaning if they declare, they still can pull out of the draft before "X" date before the draft and come back. Whereas, if they were sophmores and did this, they couldn't do the same thing after their junior years.


BINGO! I totally see Kyle doing this...why not? I think he doesn't hire an agent, listens to what the pro teams have to say, and returns his senior year...just like Vasquez.

I could be way off and I can't wait to see the new draft projections, but I don't think another McBob second round pick would make Kyle want to leave.

I really hope he stays though...my #12 jersey needs to get more wear!

cruxer
04-06-2010, 09:01 AM
BINGO! I totally see Kyle doing this...why not? I think he doesn't hire an agent, listens to what the pro teams have to say, and returns his senior year...just like Vasquez.

I could be way off and I can't wait to see the new draft projections, but I don't think another McBob second round pick would make Kyle want to leave.

I really hope he stays though...my #12 jersey needs to get more wear!

This. Exactly. IMHO he'd be silly not to at least test the waters to see if his stock is where he wants it to be. If so, stay in the draft, if not, come back and contribute to back-to-back!

I get everyone's concern that he may not be ready, but why not get paid guaranteed mega-$$ while getting ready? I love college bball and Duke in particular, but he owes us nothing....

whereinthehellami
04-06-2010, 09:09 AM
I absolutely love watching Kyle play but I think he should go for his own good. Everyone knows he is a phenomenal player and he just won a title and got the MVP award. He deserves to cash in.

I hope Smith stays. I know he said he was but he had a really good tourney too. Sometimes kids say things to make others happy. I wouldn't hold it against Nolan if he changed his mind because he can go in the first round (if he can). With that said if Smith stays I can't wait to see him in an expanded role next year. He was money at the end this year and his confidence and game went thru the roof.

DukeGirl4ever
04-06-2010, 09:23 AM
I absolutely love watching Kyle play but I think he should go for his own good. Everyone knows he is a phenomenal player and he just won a title and got the MVP award. He deserves to cash in.


Would you consider it "cashing in" if he went 2nd round? Just thinking out loud....I still am not sure he's first round. It obviously depends on who else is going to throw their names in the hat.

I also think it all depends on how the scouts view this tourney.

PSurprise
04-06-2010, 09:34 AM
I think one of the big things Kyle has to think about is what happened on Saturday to Da'Sean Butler. (Try to) Imagine that's Kyle next year-blows out his ACL in the Final Four-How would that affect his status with the pros? For me deciding whether or not to go pro, Butler's injury would be reason #1, #2, and #3 to go pro early. Of course, there's much more to Kyle's situation (whether he wants to win back-2-back championships, his need for $, etc).

greybeard
04-06-2010, 09:36 AM
I think Kyle is ready and telll Rip Hamilton and Reggie and Allen that you can't make a living coming off screens. It happens to be an art form. Kyle's use of the screen game reminds me of Rip's, and any team that drafts him and expects him to play will know that. I think that Kyle has the one-bounce-and-shoot-when-he catches-off-the-screen-inside-17 game down, and is extremely potent at it. His ability to extend his upper torso, his shoulder girdle upward, when he lifts his arms high, which he does off that mid-range shoot, his balance and footwork off the one-bounce moves, make a switch by a screen setter not much of an obstacle. He can take it to the rim. That makes his ability to catch and shoot it off the screen especially potent. He will want to develop diversity in his penetrating passing game and his ability to play off it to complement his 3-game, and also will want to get more diverse off the bounce from 3 range. these would be nice but are not essentials. The former I think will be easy and will be sufficient to round out a very competent an offensive arsenal as a 3 who will have a physical advantage on most players in that position.

Kyle's defensive game is something people do not talk about but he shut down two great scorers the last two games, shut them down--first Butler and then Hayward. Nobody else in college basketball does that.

Kyle's ability to anticipate and be opportunistic is also very, very underrated. When he sees it early and springs, whether it is the direction of a rebound, how a guy will finish, where and when a pass is coming, his timing is impecible and he presents as such as an imposing figure, as dominant an athlete as one can imagine.

I do not see what he has to gain by coming back, unless the pros evaluate him differently and the benefits of going now are just not that appealing. Then, I'd have to think that finishing his college education, having a senior year at Duke, and getting to help lead what is certain to be an extremely, extremely formidable team if he returns, will be worth much more than going as a 2 pick.

If he is not a lottery, the pros will miss out. Singler will return. I think the pros will get it right.

NovaScotian
04-06-2010, 09:43 AM
Not a big NBA pundent, but I cannot imagine that Kyle staying could possibly hurt his draft status. He will be playing with KI and Seth Curry, in addition to the others coming back. That could be a very special team, and he most certainly would be a if not THE focal point of that team.

it could be a really special team, but with that backcourt (nolan, seth, dawkins, irving) kyle would probably have to move back to being a big again, which would mean yet another switch in training, and another year out of his natural nba position on the perimeter. if he feels he's a first round pick, i think he should go. he's accomplished what he wanted to, and there's no really compelling reason to stay other than if he decides this isn't the best draft class for him.

ncexnyc
04-06-2010, 09:44 AM
I wasted my time last year trying to justify why Gerald would stay. I'm not going to do that this year with Kyle.

It's going to be a looooooong 30+ days.

BleedsP287
04-06-2010, 09:44 AM
I think Kyle's stock will rise over the near term as people analyze the season he had. And I expect him to go. I'd be very happy for him if that happened. I sure would love to have him back, but what is best for everyone right now is what is best for Kyle, if he can go early, go, and God bless.

I don't underestimate what he can do as a Duke Ambassador going early in the draft and having a successful NBA career. He'll continue to serve as a shining example of Duke Class for a long time no matter what.

wilko
04-06-2010, 09:45 AM
If they go they go...

Nothing but Love for either Nolan or Kyle should they make the jump.
They "Brung home the goods" ... all you can really say is "Thanks for the memories and good luck."

It would be ideal if at least 1 stayed to provide some leadership.... but really. How can you hold it against them? You cant really...

Matches
04-06-2010, 09:54 AM
it could be a really special team, but with that backcourt (nolan, seth, dawkins, irving) kyle would probably have to move back to being a big again, which would mean yet another switch in training, and another year out of his natural nba position on the perimeter.

With the personnel we will have next year I think we'll be doing more running. The Plumlees are both mobile and can get up and down the court. If Kyle stays he may end up defending the 4 a lot, but his role on offense should be similar to this year.

More and more college teams really play guys at the 4 who are NBA 3's anyway. I think Kyle will stay or go based on where he will be drafted, not really because he'll play this position or that position at Duke next year.

DevilHorns
04-06-2010, 10:01 AM
I'm going to be a little bit confrontational. I think its 100% selfish for any true Duke fan to hope Kyle stays one more year. Kyle WANTS to go. This is not about being behind his decision, most sane Duke fans will do that regardless if he goes. This is about HOPING for the best for him, ie, hoping he has impressed scouts and doubters enough with this insane championship run to rocket up his draft stock to a position that makes him comfortable to leave. If Kyle WANTS to leave, how can we truly hope for that theoretical lineup next year with him as a senior? In my eyes that is against the spirit of Duke basketball. This young man has done so much for us. Lets hope for his wishes.

Go Duke!

billyj
04-06-2010, 10:14 AM
I'm going to be a little bit confrontational. I think its 100% selfish for any true Duke fan to hope Kyle stays one more year. Kyle WANTS to go. This is not about being behind his decision, most sane Duke fans will do that regardless if he goes. This is about HOPING for the best for him, ie, hoping he has impressed scouts and doubters enough with this insane championship run to rocket up his draft stock to a position that makes him comfortable to leave. If Kyle WANTS to leave, how can we truly hope for that theoretical lineup next year with him as a senior? In my eyes that is against the spirit of Duke basketball. This young man has done so much for us. Lets hope for his wishes.

Go Duke!


Ditto. I, for one, selfishly hoping he can return. ;) I think Kyle has every right in the world to do something for himself.

Matches
04-06-2010, 10:15 AM
Absolutely if Kyle wants to go, I hope he gets the chance. Not knowing him personally, though (as I suspect is true for most of us), I have no real way of knowing what he wants.

greybeard
04-06-2010, 10:17 AM
I think one of the big things Kyle has to think about is what happened on Saturday to Da'Sean Butler. (Try to) Imagine that's Kyle next year-blows out his ACL in the Final Four-How would that affect his status with the pros? For me deciding whether or not to go pro, Butler's injury would be reason #1, #2, and #3 to go pro early. Of course, there's much more to Kyle's situation (whether he wants to win back-2-back championships, his need for $, etc).

Injury risk in sport is ever present. That said, Kyle has a style of play that minimumizes risk, rather than maximizes it aka Butler. Butler blew out his knee by planting hard with his left foot while moving fast and with force in a forward direction. He planted his left foot to try to jump right, to glide past Zoubek. That is an extremely dangerous play, which was what Butler's extraordinary ability get to and score at the rim this season was built upon.

Kyle has very, very little of that in his game. The injuries he has suffered at Duke, for example the two wrist injuries this season, weres on borderline, or in some cases beyond borderline, dangerous plays by defenders that have no place in the game.

Kyle is an extraordinay athlete who plays within himself and who makes often makes plays on an uncanny ability to see what will happen before most anyone has any reason to. In that regard, he is very much like his childhood hero, the Birdman.

I don't think that the risk of injury will play any part in his decision.

SharkD
04-06-2010, 10:17 AM
...I think its 100% selfish for any true Duke fan to hope Kyle stays one more year....

As an educator, I, for one, hope that he stays and finishes his degree.

DevilHorns
04-06-2010, 10:21 AM
As an educator, I, for one, hope that he stays and finishes his degree.

Many players leave in 3 years and still finish their degree. I am not sure how many classes he would have left, but Im sure he could do it.

wallyman
04-06-2010, 10:26 AM
Kyle's been one of the toughest, best and most admirable Duke players ever.
If he wants to come back, fabulous. If he doesn't, I've never felt better about seeing a guy go. He deserves nothing but gratitude and admiration for what he's done at Duke, and I think he'll have a really good pro career.

jimsumner
04-06-2010, 10:27 AM
No Duke player has ever "tested the waters." Duke has signficant NBA resources and Singler knows/will know exactly where he stands. If he declares for the draft, he's gone.

Interestingly, Duke has never had an early-entry following an NCAA title. Laettner in '91, Hill in '92, Williams in '01 all could have been lottery picks but all elected to come back. The exoduses of '99, '02 and '04 came after disappointing losses.

Likely doesn't mean anything relative to Singler but still interesting.

PADukeMom
04-06-2010, 10:29 AM
And this quote combined with Nolan's "slip" after the WVa game saying he didn't want it to be the last game for Jon, Lance and Kyle, really makes me think he is gone. I sure hope not, but I'm not expecting to see him in a Duke uniform next season.

I caught that too. I was praying he really meant to say Zoubs. I wish him the best whatever he decides to do.

greybeard
04-06-2010, 10:30 AM
I think that Nolan has made an excellent decision by deciding to come back. If it wasn't for Zoubek's remarkable story, and sorry Butler and the talking heads, Zoubek's story is the sports story of the year, Nolan's growth as a player and leader this year would in my opinion be the story of the year for Duke basketball fans.

Nolan's offensive explosion is only a small part of the story. Nolan's ability to step up and make great offensive plays, to create offense for himself, as they say, when Duke needed it time and again, that too is only a small part of the story.

There was a steel to Nolan that emerged at crucial times that is rare. That is the biggest part of the story. I think that that quality could be his greatest asset. Another year with K, with the other leaders of this team all gone (assuming Kyle goes but even if he stays), can help Nolan grow in ways that will make him an even more exceptionable pro and will serve him the rest of his life.

Congratuations to Nolan Smith; the torch will be passed to someone who will carry it in ways that will be unique in Duke lore. Isn't it always that way?

roywhite
04-06-2010, 10:33 AM
Kyle's been one of the toughest, best and most admirable Duke players ever.
If he wants to come back, fabulous. If he doesn't, I've never felt better about seeing a guy go. He deserves nothing but gratitude and admiration for what he's done at Duke, and I think he'll have a really good pro career.

Agree. I'm so happy for Kyle and all the players to have achieved their goal of a national championship. Kyle was the MOP of the Final Four, and deservedly so.

I'm leaning slightly to thinking he may go. He may be able to improve if he returns to Duke, but he can also develop as a player on an NBA roster, even if not a regular.

mpj96
04-06-2010, 10:33 AM
If the nba scouts leave Kyle around until the second round then they are not earning their paycheck. That kid is a winner and will succeed in the pros.

Of course, these are the same folks who thought Boozer was a second round pick.

If I were Kyle I would certainly test the waters. I think he would be crazy not to. I would also listen to K. The man knows what he is talking about.

JasonEvans
04-06-2010, 10:39 AM
Many players leave in 3 years and still finish their degree. I am not sure how many classes he would have left, but Im sure he could do it.

I recall seeing somewhere that Nolan would finish up his degree work this summer (he has only one class to go, I think) and that he would take grad school classes at Fuqua next year during his "senior" season.

I suspect that Kyle is in a similar situation and that even if he turns pro it will not take much work for him to finish his degree. Almost all the basketball players get ahead in their course work over the summer.

--Jason "the dedication of these athletes is remarkable" Evans

Mal
04-06-2010, 10:54 AM
I'm going to be a little bit confrontational. I think its 100% selfish for any true Duke fan to hope Kyle stays one more year. Kyle WANTS to go.

Why be confrontational? Everyone on this thread has stated a variation of (i) Singler just delivered a title, (ii) if what he determines is best for him is the NBA, then godspeed and he'll have our full support, and if what he determines is best for him is to come back, then good for all of us. To note that if what's best for him happens to coincide with what's best for the Duke fan hoping for a serious run at a repeat next year would be cool, is not putting extra pressure on him to decide to come back. Everyone here has acknowledged they'll love the guy whatever he does. :)

Anyway, I say ditto on Nolan. I know he declared he's staying three weeks ago, but after that Baylor game I've got to think NBA front offices have taken notice. And if he changes his mind, good for him.

Even if both go pro, we can look forward to next season with great anticipation, anyway: we'll have a lightning quick, likely high impact point guard, an accomplished scorer who's been in the system for a year and will be a 20/21 year-old sophomore, a gunner with a year's experience and some personal tragedy well behind him, and Thing One and (healthy) Thing Two with additional seasoning and expanded roles. We'll likely go from a half-court team to a high scoring, running squad that can still intimidate with interior defense. Any returning starters would just be gravy, because either way we'll be basking in the glow of being DEFENDING NATIONAL CHAMPIONS all season, too. I already can't wait. It'll be a work in progress with so many new pieces in the starting lineup, but I predict great improvement and a really solid team by the end of the season.

It's all good today, people.

jdj4duke
04-06-2010, 10:56 AM
Singler may be the physically toughest player that ever put on a Duke uniform. He has taken more hard, and I mean brutal, shots than anyone I can recall. That he picked himself up after the final pick (illegal or not) last night was evidence enough, again, for me. That kid is an absolute stud. He is fearless, persistent, and bounces up after taking poundings that really make me shudder. He is always immediately and totally engaged in the game and what he is supposed to do.

There are always certain players (and this team has more than one) that bring a certain kind of pride and joy to being a Duke alum and/or fan. This year, more than anyone else for me, it's Singler. He really is Iron.

MChambers
04-06-2010, 11:01 AM
But to play in NBA at the age of 44 is impressive.

Why are you talking about Tyler Hansbrough in this thread?;)

COYS
04-06-2010, 11:02 AM
Singler may be the physically toughest player that ever put on a Duke uniform. He has taken more hard, and I mean brutal, shots than anyone I can recall. That he picked himself up after the final pick (illegal or not) last night was evidence enough, again, for me. That kid is an absolute stud. He is fearless, persistent, and bounces up after taking poundings that really make me shudder. He is always immediately and totally engaged in the game and what he is supposed to do.

There are always certain players (and this team has more than one) that bring a certain kind of pride and joy to being a Duke alum and/or fan. This year, more than anyone else for me, it's Singler. He really is Iron.

Totally agree. In some ways it would be fitting if Kyle's last moments in a Duke uniform involved him getting decked by a hard screen only to flash his patented grin as the potential game winning heave clanked off the backboard and iron, sealing a Duke national title.

DevilHorns
04-06-2010, 11:06 AM
Why be confrontational?

You are right. Nobody on here was saying that they would think badly of him if he decides to go, etc, and that they are behind his decision, but thats not really what I was saying.

What I'm saying is...

I think we SHOULD WANT HIM TO GO. Thats the difference. (paraphrasing here from general things I have read) No "oh no I think Kyle might leave" talk. I want him to go because HE WANTS TO GO. I'm a little opinionated about this and realize that not all fans would want this for several reasons (they think he's not ready or max'd his draft stock, think he could retire his jersey, etc). But, for me, if he really wants to go and if thats his dream, I cannot see how it would be fair to hope for anything else.

I see this as a second championship for Kyle personally. His goal was not only to cement his Duke legacy, but to prepare himself for a career in the NBA with the idea of leaving THIS YEAR. That was his goal this year. Here's for hoping that he can win this second one.

Starter
04-06-2010, 11:07 AM
No Duke player has ever "tested the waters."

Interesting, I didn't realize that. I think he's going to go, but if he decides to stay, we should have him test the waters anyway. Show his stuff for scouts, get his name even more out there, whet everyone's appetite for his senior season. (But I think he goes, and probably should)

JayZee
04-06-2010, 11:22 AM
As an educator, I, for one, hope that he stays and finishes his degree.

Anyone know if Kyle is doing the JWill/Bozzer thing where he gets his degree (or close to it) in three?

Looking back to when we recruited him (when he was the #2 recruit in an epic year) I think we all would have signed up knowing we'd get him for three years, even without the NC. I'd love it if he set another example of how a top recruit can come to Duke, get a great education and still get to the NBA rather quickly.

Putting it another way, I'd love to see Kyrie has a similar trajectory with his experience at Duke, with maybe 1 more 'ship than Kyle :)

mcdukie
04-06-2010, 11:37 AM
I agree with everyone who says we should be happy for Kyle either way. I think mid season he was a 2nd round pick but the way he played in the tournament has caught some eyes. I was thinking he was almost playing too well to be selfish because he looked like a pro to me and why wouldn't he chase the dream if he and K think that he is ready. He should test the waters and make whatever decision he thinks is best for him.

InSpades
04-06-2010, 11:44 AM
I always thought that this was Kyle's "bonus year". He could have left after his sophomore year and been a 1st round draft pick. Instead he came back and I loved him for it. The way he played in our NCAA run... he can do no wrong for me. That being said... if he comes back for his senior year he might just be my favorite Blue Devil of all-time. That has to be some sort of incentive for him... right?

MChambers
04-06-2010, 11:55 AM
I think it is very presumptuous of any of us to say what Kyle should do. (Not trying to pick on any posters here, BTW.) It is an intensely personal matter and we can't really know what factors will play into his decision.

It probably makes sense economically for him to enter the draft now, assuming that he would be a first round pick. (I'm not totally convinced of this, in part because, as DBR likes to point out, there is no salary cap on endorsements and he would certainly build up his endorsement potential by coming back for his senior year, like Mr. Battier.) On the other hand, he is very likely to make plenty of money playing basketball, so I'm not convinced that one season should make a difference either way.

As far as the injury potential goes, I agree that the Hummel and Butler injuries might make one think it is wiser to go now. On the other hand, I think one is more likely to get seriously injured playing in the NBA than in college basketball, and if you are still under your rookie contract, you won't have a lot of money, at least relatively speaking. Also, I believe there is an insurance program available for players. Like all insurance, I'm sure that it would not make up completely for any salary loss, but it would be a nice nest egg to begin one's career with.

On the other hand, this is really a life decision. There's a lot to be said for Kyle coming back for his senior year, as the face of a very talented team. I expect he would be preseason first team All American and maybe even preseason player of the year. I think he could refine his ballhandling and shooting skills, although I acknowledge that he also could do that in the NBA. To me, spending another year at Duke, with a chance to make his name among the greatest of Duke players of all time would be infinitely preferable to being on a team like the Washington Wizards or the New Jersey Nyets.

Either way, I wish him well and will respect his decision. He has been one of the most amazing Duke players I have ever seen, and I have been watching Duke since 1975, when I was a freshman.

Starter
04-06-2010, 12:00 PM
Pretty good points by previous poster. It's a different animal with the shaky CBA, though. The opportunities may not be the same next season. Also, considering Kyle is most likely a mid-to-late first round pick, it'd probably be less Wizards and more Spurs/Hawks, etc. The only way he's in danger of playing for a terrible, moribund franchise would be if he slips to the early second.

Sgt. Dingleberry
04-06-2010, 12:05 PM
I think this is pretty simple...Kyle is gone if he is assured that he will be drafted in a slot that is adequate to him...

If somebody says they will take him at the end of the first round, he is gone...If somebody says they might take him at the end of the second round, that might be motivation for him to come back and to try and improve his stock...

I have seen some draft projections that don't even predict him being drafted...If that is actually true, obviously he will be back...

It's all about what the people in the industry tell K...This will be a long process...It's great that Kyle has K on his side....

Good luck Kyle and thanks for everything!!!! You were a man possessed last night!!! You willed us to win that game, you could see it in your eyes...

WannabeDukie
04-06-2010, 12:57 PM
Espn artcile from Chad Ford

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft&id=5059811

One section of the article talking about Kyle Singler says:
"The word on the street is that his people are already talking to agents."

Says Nolan is being projected as late first round to early 2nd, if he decides to go.

He is also projecting Zoubek will get taken by someone in the 2nd round.

mapei
04-06-2010, 01:09 PM
"his people"?

studdlee10
04-06-2010, 01:10 PM
Espn artcile from Chad Ford

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft&id=5059811

One section of the article talking about Kyle Singler says:
"The word on the street is that his people are already talking to agents."

Says Nolan is being projected as late first round to early 2nd, if he decides to go.

He is also projecting Zoubek will get taken by someone in the 2nd round.

Kyle has given us everything he's had for 3 years. He's been asked to play post and to play wing and he has done both without complaint. He kept us in that game last night and deserves to make whatever decisions is best to him and his family. I wish him the best, regardless of what he decides.

Kyle leaving would give guys like Curry, Irving, Dawkins, Kelly, Felix, Plumlees, etc a chance to step up. I think they are more than capable.

WannabeDukie
04-06-2010, 01:11 PM
"his people"?

I wonder the same thing... Duke staff is just now getting back to Durham

MChambers
04-06-2010, 01:14 PM
Espn artcile from Chad Ford

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft&id=5059811

One section of the article talking about Kyle Singler says:
"The word on the street is that his people are already talking to agents."

Says Nolan is being projected as late first round to early 2nd, if he decides to go.

He is also projecting Zoubek will get taken by someone in the 2nd round.

I remember in 2001 hearing John Thompson on the radio saying that Jason Williams was going pro that year. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt.

j(ay)mike
04-06-2010, 01:15 PM
Sorry guys, but I don't have a good feeling about Kyle's chances of staying. I watched the post-game pressers after the WVU game. Nolan made a very interesting comment when asked generally about how the team has kept going/winning when nobody expected them to, etc. His response was, "I just want to make sure it's not Jon, Kyle, and Lance's last game." The comment struck me, so I ran the DVR back and re-listened.

Now, this could have been an innocent error. He could have meant to say "Brian," because he did leave him out. But I think this was his subconscious talking. I think the players may know Kyle is going, but they just want to give him the opportunity to announce it.

This is PURE speculation, but I wanted to point out that quote.

wilko
04-06-2010, 01:18 PM
Kyle has given us everything he's had for 3 years. He's been asked to play post and to play wing and he has done both without complaint. He kept us in that game last night and deserves to make whatever decisions is best to him and his family. I wish him the best, regardless of what he decides.

Preach on! We owe the guys a THANK YOU.
But after coming home with the goods the guys dont owe anybody squat.

Nothing but love.

ChicagoCrazy84
04-06-2010, 01:21 PM
I completely agree. I would love for Kyle to come back and I am sure he would be welcomed back with open arms, but if you really think about it, he has done everything for us and has eanred his right to be drafted 1st round. He was our leader and we won a championship thanks in large part to him. I think Kyle is ready and I would support him 100%. We will have young guys that will be ready to take the next big step with Kelly, Hairston, Felix, and even Curry and Dawkins.

cato
04-06-2010, 01:22 PM
If there is a lockout, Kyle will miss one season of earning potential regardless of when he leaves. It would be his first or second year. I dont' really see the difference.

Even if all other variables are the same, do you really not see the difference between earning money in 2010-2011 versus 2012-2013?

CDu
04-06-2010, 01:25 PM
I won't be surprised at all if Singler goes. He's been very non-committal about the topic this season, and his stock isn't likely to get much higher than it is right now.

Granted, there's the potential to go down among the all-time greats at Duke if he stays and could be fortunate enough to bring home a second title and a 1st Team All-American honor. Basically, I won't be terribly surprised either way. But my gut says he's probably going.

That said, if he does go, I have no complaints. He did what he set out to do by helping the team win a championship. And he's almost certainly a first-round pick now. It'd be hard to argue with a decision to leave.

But for now, it's just time to sit back and enjoy the championship. We'll worry about next year sometime down the road.

Faison1
04-06-2010, 01:40 PM
and his stock isn't likely to get much higher than it is right now.

I don't buy into this.....think Battier from Junior to Senior year....he was probably a 2nd round pick after his Junior year, then had an absolutely amazing Senior campaign and got picked in the lottery, if I'm not mistaken.

The selfish side of me wants him to stay so I can watch him develop and dominate for another year. I felt the same way about Dunleavy, in that I was so bummed he left before I could say goodbye in my own way.

Throughout this tournament, I didn't expect Kyle to leave, and therefore, I'm not prepared to say goodbye yet......call me selfish, but I want to see Kyle put it all together for his Senior year.......

But I'll be happy for him if he chooses to go....he's been the ultimate selfless teammate.....

CDu
04-06-2010, 01:49 PM
I don't buy into this.....think Battier from Junior to Senior year....he was probably a 2nd round pick after his Junior year, then had an absolutely amazing Senior campaign and got picked in the lottery, if I'm not mistaken.

But I don't think Singler is going to end up a 2nd round pick now. Based on his play over the last month, I'm guessing he's pushed up to guaranteed first round and possible late-lottery (depending upon fit with teams).

If he's still a 2nd Round guy, then I agree with you. But my guess is that he's pushed his stock up a lot over the past several weeks. And as such, I don't think he's destined to go much higher next year than he'd go this year.

Obviously, this is just speculation, as we don't know what Singler or NBA teams are thinking.

Faison1
04-06-2010, 01:56 PM
But I don't think Singler is going to end up a 2nd round pick now. Based on his play over the last month, I'm guessing he's pushed up to guaranteed first round and possible late-lottery (depending upon fit with teams).

If he's still a 2nd Round guy, then I agree with you. But my guess is that he's pushed his stock up a lot over the past several weeks. And as such, I don't think he's destined to go much higher next year than he'd go this year.

Obviously, this is just speculation, as we don't know what Singler or NBA teams are thinking.

I hear ya. I'm happy for him no matter what he chooses to do. I'd just like to be able to see him play one more time.

Like the rest of us, I really enjoy watching these guys develop not only their game but their personalities as well over the course of 4 years. It's thrilling to me to think of where they've come from and how they've grown. In a funny sort of way, I consider these guys friends of mine.....

NM Duke Fan
04-06-2010, 01:57 PM
Timing is everything, and this might be his time to take advantage of what the NBA has to offer. I have 100% confidence that with Coach's contacts he will have some realistic hard data to give to Kyle, and he will give Kyle his full blessing to go if it is in his best interests. Next year's team will be excellent no matter what, and Kyle will be playing the game he loves at one level or the other. May Kyle do a great cost-benefit analysis, and come to the best possible decision!

CLW
04-06-2010, 02:02 PM
It is not surprisingly just NIGHT AND DAY between the Duke boards/fans (everyone saying they want what is best for Kyle Singler) and the UK boards/fans where they have literally harassed one of their soon to be former players Orton and his father for deciding to go early.

I'm no NBA draft wiz and I do not pretend to know anything about the CBA situation. However, if K and Kyle get together and Kyle is happy about where he is projected to go and wants to go great for him. If he decides hey I want to come back for whatever reason (improve draft stock, get a degree, make another run for a title, etc....) great for him.

CDu
04-06-2010, 02:03 PM
I hear ya. I'm happy for him no matter what he chooses to do. I'd just like to be able to see him play one more time.

I certainly hope he stays for selfish reasons. But I'll never begrudge any player for making what they feel is the best decision for them (either way).

bluedevil2012
04-06-2010, 02:23 PM
when he walked up to speak at Cameron, we all chanted "one more year". He looked really uncomfortable

Spam Filter
04-06-2010, 02:34 PM
I think the one more year chant was inappropriate.

They should have been chanting MOP.

dukestheheat
04-06-2010, 02:45 PM
Kyle certainly stepped his game up two notches late season (most of the team did, as well!); I wonder how that translates into his readiness to go to the League? He's a superb college player, there is no doubt. If he returns, he could be named POY and get his jersey retired. We shall see! I am very thankful for his efforts at Duke and especially in this tournament. I thought he was just way over the heads of most opponents and was Duke's best player!

dth.

jpfrizzle
04-06-2010, 02:59 PM
I'm against students going to the NBA early, regardless of their caliber, but for depriving their-self of an education from a great school like Duke university.

NBA does I will admit have a knack for getting the guys to sign early. I think that's wrong and the NBA should wait until 4 years of college is completed. Hell, the NBA doesn't even treat the new recruits with respect anyway.

Kyle's stock can only go up, not backwards. Duke has another potentially great team again for 2010-2011 season. I hope Kyle makes the right decision for his future. Put school first, then think about the money.
McRoberts didn't make the decision, see where that got him?

Kyle owes himself an education.

InSpades
04-06-2010, 03:07 PM
Kyle's stock can only go up, not backwards.

If this was actually true then I'm betting Kyle would come back. Just look at him over the past year. After his sophomore year he would've definitely been a 1st round pick. At the start of the year he struggled and most people had him going in the 2nd round. Now after a great 2nd half he's back in the 1st round most likely. If you knew that coming back to college for 1 year could cost you millions of guaranteed dollars... would you do it? The NBA view on college players can change very quickly and that is why I think a lot of players jump while they can. If you need more evidence that a players stock can drop... just look at Warren from Oklahoma.

wilko
04-06-2010, 03:13 PM
I'm against students going to the NBA early, regardless of their caliber, but for depriving their-self of an education from a great school like Duke university.

I hope Kyle makes the right decision for his future. Put school first, then think about the money. McRoberts didn't make the decision, see where that got him?

Kyle owes himself an education.

For purely selfish reasons I do agree....

But you know.... I tend to think for the most part the NBA $ is 99% of the money they will ever make and to replay what happened with DaSean Butler.... I think ALL the players were thinking that could be me on any given play.

They should go if they can. If someone washes out or gets injured they can always complete their degree later.

I'd like to see amateur status extended to the D-league. So Needy HS guys can go there and earn a check and try to make the show. If they cant make the League once they have sized up the competition and lifestyle, give them the option to re-do and go to College and pursue that path.

The problem is with the Players Union to a certain extent. If they tied their payscale to a College degree, yrs of college, yrs in Europe or the D-League then it would pay them to stick around. But the current rules dont allow for anything close to this

CDu
04-06-2010, 03:14 PM
NBA does I will admit have a knack for getting the guys to sign early. I think that's wrong and the NBA should wait until 4 years of college is completed. Hell, the NBA doesn't even treat the new recruits with respect anyway.

The decision to go (or not to go) early to the NBA is a completely individual one. For some players, the right decision is to leave early. For others, the right decision is to stay four years and get a degree. The right decision is not uniform across all players. Therefore, making a blanket statement that players should wait four years (and it's the players making that choice - not the NBA) is, in my opinion, wrong.


Kyle's stock can only go up, not backwards. Duke has another potentially great team again for 2010-2011 season. I hope Kyle makes the right decision for his future. Put school first, then think about the money.
McRoberts didn't make the decision, see where that got him?

That's not accurate. What if a bunch of SF prospects suddenly emerge and pass him next year? What if he suffers a serious injury next year like the one that Grant Hill suffered in the NBA (which derailed his career for many years)? There's no guarantee that his stock stays as high as it is right now. It might go up and it might go down.

If it were true that staying couldn't hurt his stock at all, it's very possible/probable that Singler would stay. But there is absolutely a real possibility that his stock could fall.


Kyle owes himself an education.

In your opinion, he owes himself an education. Your opinion isn't necessarily in line with what is best for Singler (nor is it necessarily out of line, either).

The other thing you don't seem to be considering is that there's nothing that makes it impossible for Singler to complete his degree even if he does go pro.

There are pros and cons to both sides of the decision. None of us are in any position to say which side is the right one for Singler (or any other player).

whereinthehellami
04-06-2010, 03:17 PM
Keep in mind its not always all about the money. The dream is to play in the NBA, against the best in the world. Kyle is so close he can probably sniff it in his dreams. He might actually get me to check out an NBA game and that is saying alot.

CDu
04-06-2010, 03:23 PM
Keep in mind its not always all about the money. The dream is to play in the NBA, against the best in the world. Kyle is so close he can probably sniff it in his dreams. He might actually get me to check out an NBA game and that is saying alot.

Yup. There's a lot that goes into the decision, and fulfilling a life-long goal is almost certainly on the short list.

jpfrizzle
04-06-2010, 03:30 PM
I do know Coach K will recommend staying at Duke and finishing his degree. I'm just agreeing with him I guess.

ugadevil
04-06-2010, 03:34 PM
I do know Coach K will recommend staying at Duke and finishing his degree. I'm just agreeing with him I guess.

Have you spoken with Coach K about how he is going to advise Kyle? How do you KNOW he will recommend that? There are certainly players in the past who Coach K advised them that their best interest was to make the jump to the NBA, such as Elton Brand.

juise
04-06-2010, 03:48 PM
I do know Coach K will recommend staying at Duke and finishing his degree.

No, I'm fairly certain that you do not know this.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-06-2010, 03:51 PM
Alright he doesn't know, but what we do know is Nolan is staying and that says a lot. Also I believe Kyle said he would come back before sitting on the bench in the nba, so If that's what he hears and I think he will, I see him coming back.

RoyalBlue08
04-06-2010, 03:56 PM
I do know Coach K will recommend staying at Duke and finishing his degree. I'm just agreeing with him I guess.

LOL, I don't know Coach K but if it is true that he has Kyle's best interests at heart, then what he will most likely advise is that he test the waters without hiring an agent and see what the NBA folks say about his draft status. And if he is a clear 1st round pick than he should go.

As has been said above, Kyle's draft stock could go anywhere if he returns for his senior year. He could certainly elevate it with a NPOY sort of season. But it could go down too. And forget just by injury or something like that. All he needs is another long shooting slump from the 3 and he is no longer a 1st round pick.

I think Kyle and K both know this and that is why I think you will end up seeing his name staying in the draft this year. And more power to Kyle. He gave the team everything he had for three years. Never took a minute off, never mind a game. I don't know how far away from graduation he is, but he can always come back in the summers and/or after his basketball career is over to finish his degree. I would hope most Duke fans would do nothing but wish him the best of luck.

Troublemaker
04-06-2010, 04:04 PM
The decision to go (or not to go) early to the NBA is a completely individual one. For some players, the right decision is to leave early. For others, the right decision is to stay four years and get a degree. The right decision is not uniform across all players. Therefore, making a blanket statement that players should wait four years (and it's the players making that choice - not the NBA) is, in my opinion, wrong.



That's not accurate. What if a bunch of SF prospects suddenly emerge and pass him next year? What if he suffers a serious injury next year like the one that Grant Hill suffered in the NBA (which derailed his career for many years)? There's no guarantee that his stock stays as high as it is right now. It might go up and it might go down.

If it were true that staying couldn't hurt his stock at all, it's very possible/probable that Singler would stay. But there is absolutely a real possibility that his stock could fall.



In your opinion, he owes himself an education. Your opinion isn't necessarily in line with what is best for Singler (nor is it necessarily out of line, either).

The other thing you don't seem to be considering is that there's nothing that makes it impossible for Singler to complete his degree even if he does go pro.

There are pros and cons to both sides of the decision. None of us are in any position to say which side is the right one for Singler (or any other player).

A beautiful post, Cdu. I think you nailed it. Only Kyle and possibly his family, friends and other close advisors really know what's best for him, based on his own personal values. It's possible he doesn't care a whit about his draft stock, whatever it is, good or bad. It's possible he's X years old, he's always imagined himself in the NBA at X, and now he's going to fulfill that dream. Or maybe something else, and maybe that something else leads him to stay. Who knows? None of us fans are in any position to judge the decision. Just be patient and support the guy regardless, that's what I think.

ncexnyc
04-06-2010, 04:12 PM
"It's like deja vu all over again."

This thread certainly reminds me of the post that ran for Gerald last year. I can't believe some of the silly backbiting that's taking place just a few short hours after the team won a National Championship.

As the song says, "Don't worry, be happy."

jpfrizzle
04-06-2010, 04:17 PM
LOL.. nice attack and answers..

FYI, maybe you should read more Coach K interviews to get to know him better. Ya think? lol

oldnavy
04-06-2010, 04:26 PM
Totally agree. In some ways it would be fitting if Kyle's last moments in a Duke uniform involved him getting decked by a hard screen only to flash his patented grin as the potential game winning heave clanked off the backboard and iron, sealing a Duke national title.

You simply cannot hurt Kyle Singler. Injury is not an option! Dude is THE TOUGHEST college player I ever remember seeing. It is like Zoubs or K said (can't remember which), Kyle LIKES to get hit!!

ajgoodfella7
04-06-2010, 04:34 PM
If only for purely selfish reasons I would advise Kyle to come back. But in reality I would definitely advise him to at least consider having his NBA stock verified to him. If he was told he would be a lottery pick, I would tell him to leave. Kyle doesn't owe himself to graduate in 4 years as someone else wrote. He could finish his degree just like so many other pro athletes do in their down time. I'm sorry but if he is guaranteed to be a lottery pick, there would be no downside in him taking advantage of that... except for our repeat chances of course.

TheBrianZoubekExperience
04-06-2010, 04:38 PM
His stock won't change much. Can't see if rising higher than late first round and unless he has a horrible year he's probably at least a late second round pick. It has more room to go lower than higher but its probably pretty much set barring injury.

He needs to weigh going to the nba now versus having a senior year and risking a lower stock or a possible serious injury like Butler had.

My guess is that he leaves which is what I would do if I were him.

Greg_Newton
04-06-2010, 04:38 PM
LOL.. nice attack and answers..

FYI, maybe you should read more Coach K interviews to get to know him better. Ya think? lol

Just BTW, CDu et al, I don't think you're obligated to respond to this further than you have. Everyone reading this knows you all are right.

Anyone have any idea how Nolan's plan to finish his undergraduate coursework in August (I think?) might affect him? It seems like it might open up a ton of free time to work on his game, but I don't really know how that all works or how common that is for 4-year athletes.

loran16
04-06-2010, 05:01 PM
but Chad Ford made the comment in his chat today that:



Smith says he's staying. Probably a good idea. I hear Singler's people are already talking to agents. I think he's gone. Duke will be fine without him.

----

So don't get too excited for him to stay. I mean in all honesty, I'd love him back, but he got us a championship so it's not like he has anything left to prove, and he can graduate on his own time by taking summer classes for a year if he wants to graduate.

I mean remember guys, finishing up during the summer while you make money, or during an NBA lock-out is the most monetarily smart way to go.

dukeblue225
04-06-2010, 05:06 PM
Kyle can approach the situation from one of two perspectives.

He could approach it thinking how he just won the title, is the MOP of the 2010 Final Four, and his draft stock could not be higher.

However, he could realize that he has the chance to do something very special by possibly winning consecutive national titles. Chances are he'll also be First Team All-American and leader for national player of the year. Barring a significant injury, his draft stock will most likely not go down, even though it may not get much higher. And... most of all that number 12 could be in the hallowed rafters of CIS forever. Coach K is known for being completely honest to his players in these situations and I hope he makes the right choice, whichever that may be.

Dukeface88
04-06-2010, 05:18 PM
Kyle owes himself an education.

Kyle has spent three years at an elite university. That's a far better education than 99% of people. Just something to keep in mind.

tallguy
04-06-2010, 05:20 PM
Isn't Singler on track to graduate in May anyways? This talk of staying for a degree is a strawman argument- even if he isn't on track for May, there's nothing stopping him from getting his degree later in life. The chance to play in the NBA, however, is time sensitive, and Singler's stock really can't get much higher than it is right now. It's certainly not worth postponing for a year to get a degree that will have very little effect in the short term on his earnings potential. Long term, if he gets injured and needs to shift careers, he can always come back.

BlueintheFace
04-06-2010, 05:22 PM
1) Kyle has been a warrior for Duke for three years.
2) Kyle is very close to his degree as of right now
3) Kyle just brought us fans a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP and was the Final Four MVP

...Even if Kyle wants to go be a ballet dancer in St. Petersburg, I say GOOD LUCK. Thanks for the championship. Come back any time.

Son of Mojo
04-06-2010, 05:33 PM
If he's on the cusp of getting his degree (a la Jason Williams) then there's not much that can be said. It's something I'd think more recruits would make an attempt to do (the 3 year degree--obviously not an easy program but it benefits the student and the school). If he's still got more classes to take that would go into the fall semester, stay. The selfish side of me says STAY, PLEASE. The only way I would agree with a kid leaving early is if it is known by all that they will be a lottery pick. He could also see what GH has had to go through in Charlotte as something to bear in mind about leaving a year early. While being in Cameron today (amazing--I've been a fan since '86 and this was the first time I've EVER gotten to go), Kyle really did seem kind of distant with how he spoke. Ultimately, we can only hope he'll do what is in his best interest.

sivartrenrag
04-06-2010, 05:47 PM
Completely up to him. I'm sure he'll make the best decision for his individual situation. Whatever he does, more power to him. He gave us tons of great memories.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-06-2010, 05:49 PM
Seems like i'm really the only one who thinks he comes back, I think he is going to realize coming back a year would be best for his basketball career as a whole.

Zeb
04-06-2010, 05:49 PM
1. Kyle's NBA draft stock can't get much higher than it is now. (This could be debated, but after a great junior year, I don't think he's changed the opinions NBA scouts had of him as a sophomore, so I don't expect a big change after his senior year.)

2. His stock could certainly get lower via injury or unexpected poor performance.

3. The NBA lockout could postpone his ability to earn income, and the new labor deal will almost certainly lower the value of his initial contract.

4. Having won a championship and MOP, he's already achieved a lot of the team/individual honors that some players might want to stick around for.

There is not a better time for him to leave. I certainly hope he stays, but I would be surprised if he does. And I certainly would not begrudge it one bit. It's his life--it always surprises me how strong people's opinions are about someone else's life choices.

Matches
04-06-2010, 05:57 PM
I've never understood why folks seem to treat the lottery as the dividing line for whether a player should stay or go. There's really almost no difference between being drafted 13th vs 18th in terms of money or prestige. It's 1st round vs. 2nd round that's significant, because 1st round = guaranteed money while 2nd round does not.

Matches
04-06-2010, 06:00 PM
McRoberts didn't make the decision, see where that got him?



He's making a pretty nice living in the NBA, and is playing quite well recently. I know he makes more $ per year than I do, and I have a degree from Duke. And if ultimately his NBA career fizzles, he has financial security that allows him some freedom in what to do next - including finishing his education.

JaMarcus Russell
04-06-2010, 06:02 PM
Yep, I think if Kyle gets a first round guarantee, he should go. Otherwise, he should stay. Before this weekend, it definitely didn't seem like he would have gotten a first round guarantee. However, much like Wayne Ellington last year, I think his play (and his team's success) in the Final 4 may have helped his case.

I don't think he was too different from his usual self in the past 2 games, besides his improved shot selection, but Jonathan Givony in particular seemed extremely impressed with what Singler did in Indy compared to the rest of his games. I guess he didn't watch him that much in the regular seaosn.

LSanders
04-06-2010, 06:05 PM
Gotta love Nolan's plans ... :D

From: http://http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/sports/ncaabasketball/07duke.html


... A few days before Christmas, Krzyzewski traveled to Newark to see (Kyrie) Irving play in an early-season game. Krzyzewski and his assistant coach Chris Collins sat with Irving’s father and a few family friends in the back row of the bleachers overlooking the court. One asked the coach what he wanted to do with Irving.

“Honestly, I just want to not mess him up,” Krzyzewski said. “Just let him play.”

The coach plans to instill a more up-tempo offense for Irving and the others coming in. For (Nolan) Smith, the freshmen and the future can’t arrive quickly enough.

“Back-to-back is the only question we want to answer now,” he said.

wilko
04-06-2010, 06:09 PM
However, he could realize that he has the chance to do something very special by possibly winning consecutive national titles. Chances are he'll also be First Team All-American and leader for national player of the year. Barring a significant injury, his draft stock will most likely not go down, even though it may not get much higher.

And... most of all that number 12 could be in the hallowed rafters of CIS forever. Coach K is known for being completely honest to his players in these situations and I hope he makes the right choice, whichever that may be.

Oh I didnt realize the NBA paid him a bonus for multiple National Championships, 1st team AA, NPOY and a retired Jersey....

I dont mean to be snarky, but those are fan reasons for him to stay.

I want him to come back as much as anyone, really... but Im not holding my breath.

He'll make his choice and we should be behind him 100%. I know I will.

kong123
04-06-2010, 06:10 PM
Word is, Ed Davis will need additional surgery on his wrist and will not be ready for NBA tryouts. Apparently, this means he will return for at least one more season. And... with a NBA lockout looming, perhaps it means 2 years of HB, Ed, and JH.

See, with a little bit of news like this, right back on the horse and ready to ride.

blueprofessor
04-06-2010, 06:30 PM
Word is, Ed Davis will need additional surgery on his wrist and will not be ready for NBA tryouts. Apparently, this means he will return for at least one more season. And... with a NBA lockout looming, perhaps it means 2 years of HB, Ed, and JH.

See, with a little bit of news like this, right back on the horse and ready to ride.

Who did the first surgery? Wanda,at the beach?

Best regards. Blueprofessor:)

ncexnyc
04-06-2010, 06:59 PM
Word is, Ed Davis will need additional surgery on his wrist and will not be ready for NBA tryouts. Apparently, this means he will return for at least one more season. And... with a NBA lockout looming, perhaps it means 2 years of HB, Ed, and JH.

See, with a little bit of news like this, right back on the horse and ready to ride.

I think the 2010 version of the heels was more like a mule than a horse.

kong123
04-06-2010, 07:01 PM
I think the 2010 version of the heels was more like a mule than a horse.

Yep, but the 2009 team version was a Derby winner and head and shoulders above any team this year, ask Coach K.

juise
04-06-2010, 07:04 PM
Yep, but the 2009 team version was a Derby winner and head and shoulders above any team this year, ask Coach K.

2009 is not what we're talking about. Actually, this thread is not about Carolina whatsoever. There's a thread about next season's top 25 teams. Such conversation fits in well there. We're talking about Kyle and Duke (you know, the national champions) in this one.

kong123
04-06-2010, 07:08 PM
My mistake, my first comment was on topic but I allowed myself to fight an unwarranted verbal jab with a verbal jab of my own.

SoCalDukeFan
04-06-2010, 07:17 PM
I just hope Kyle makes the right decision for himself and has no regrets.

Obviously I would love to see him come back and perhaps go back to back. On the other hand, if wants the NBA he certainly has earned it.

SoCal

Greg_Newton
04-06-2010, 07:26 PM
Yep, but the 2009 team version was a Derby winner and head and shoulders above any team this year, ask Coach K.

I've got to give you credit, you've stuck around a long time for a flat-out troll.

juise
04-06-2010, 07:34 PM
My mistake, my first comment was on topic but I allowed myself to fight an unwarranted verbal jab with a verbal jab of my own.

I appreciate your willingness to backpedal, but your first post was about Ed Davis and had nothing to do with Kyle/Nolan. There is a thread (http://dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20357) for non-Duke players who may go to the draft as well.

I am not calling you a troll here. I'd be tempted to spar with the locals is I frequented Carolina boards. I definitely would struggle to be gracious as you and ClosetHurleyFan were in the thread he started. You just have to know that there's a time and a place to talk light blue.

Newton_14
04-06-2010, 07:49 PM
My mistake, my first comment was on topic but I allowed myself to fight an unwarranted verbal jab with a verbal jab of my own.

You also mis-quoted Coach K as well. He said that unc was head and shoulders above last years teams, not this year. And the good part is the 2010 National Championship is equal to the 2009 Championship, only more recent. Last year is so 2000 and late while last night is just down right great!

Duke Blue Devils: Your 2010 National Champions

unc@ch has not been to the Final Four SINCE 2009

By the way, weren't you a Duke fan when you joined DBR last fall?

GTHC GTH

Bo_Spice
04-06-2010, 07:53 PM
Via ESPN Insider on Kyle Singler


The word on the street is that his people are already talking to agents. Where will he go? Anywhere between the late first round to the second if he's in the draft.

I think it'd be a mistake for him to leave, he's going to be a role player in the league, so why not spend another year at Duke working on his game?

doctorhook
04-06-2010, 08:14 PM
Via ESPN Insider on Kyle Singler



I think it'd be a mistake for him to leave, he's going to be a role player in the league, so why not spend another year at Duke working on his game?

As much as I would like KS to stay, I am not sure he will change his draft status much with another year. As for working on his game, if he is playing with NBA players and coaches six days a week and no class, etc. he will likely improve more in that setting. This does not apply to younger, less skilled players, but we know Kyle has all the fundamental skills. Kyle's passing and ball handling in traffic are his most obvious areas of weakness.

blueprofessor
04-06-2010, 08:16 PM
You also mis-quoted Coach K as well. He said that unc was head and shoulders above last years teams, not this year. And the good part is the 2010 National Championship is equal to the 2009 Championship, only more recent. Last year is so 2000 and late while last night is just down right great!

Duke Blue Devils: Your 2010 National Champions

unc@ch has not been to the Final Four SINCE 2009

By the way, weren't you a Duke fan when you joined DBR last fall?

GTHC GTH

Kong overlooks the fact that Duke played UNC two strong games last year and this Duke team (2010) is much better than last year's Duke edition.

Oh, and Pomeroy agrees: UNC 2009 is rated .9770, while Duke in 2010 is rated .9848.

Best regards. Blueprofessor:)

freedevil
04-06-2010, 08:19 PM
... you sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. I wish you the best in whatever decision you make! Go Duke.

ajgoodfella7
04-06-2010, 09:54 PM
Via ESPN insider written today:

Kyle Singler, F, Duke Blue Devils
Hand it to Singler. When it mattered most, he played the best basketball of his career -- and led Duke to an NCAA title. Singler's shot was falling from everywhere. He was launching it from deep, hitting the midrange jumper and even hitting a few beautiful fallaways. Watching him play the way he did in the Final Four gives a lot of credibility to the message he'll be sending NBA GMs -- that he's a legit small forward.

I spoke with a number of GMs on Monday; most of them still have questions about Singler. They wonder who he'll guard in the NBA. They question his toughness. They doubt he's athletic enough. But with all of that said, virtually all of them said they were impressed with his whole body of work -- not just in the tournament, but over the past month or so.

The word on the street is that his people are already talking to agents. Where will he go? Anywhere between the late first round to the second if he's in the draft.

Sgt. Dingleberry
04-06-2010, 10:11 PM
Via ESPN insider written today:
They question his toughness.

Huh? The rest of the quote I understand, who would he guard, his athleticism, etc....But you can not question Kyle's toughness, nope...That is just ignorant...

tommy
04-06-2010, 10:13 PM
Via ESPN insider written today:

Kyle Singler, F, Duke Blue Devils
Hand it to Singler. When it mattered most, he played the best basketball of his career -- and led Duke to an NCAA title. Singler's shot was falling from everywhere. He was launching it from deep, hitting the midrange jumper and even hitting a few beautiful fallaways. Watching him play the way he did in the Final Four gives a lot of credibility to the message he'll be sending NBA GMs -- that he's a legit small forward.

I spoke with a number of GMs on Monday; most of them still have questions about Singler. They wonder who he'll guard in the NBA. They question his toughness. They doubt he's athletic enough. But with all of that said, virtually all of them said they were impressed with his whole body of work -- not just in the tournament, but over the past month or so.

The word on the street is that his people are already talking to agents. Where will he go? Anywhere between the late first round to the second if he's in the draft.

They question his toughness? Huh? I find that hard to believe having watched his body of work over 3 years. Dude is nothing if not tough, and he proved it over and over again. Makes me doubt this ESPN writer's credibility.

theAlaskanBear
04-06-2010, 10:15 PM
If Singler goes in the late first round, that might actually be to his benefit. He will go to a good team, who won't have to overexpose him or ask him to do things hes not capable of.

marinbobbyduhon
04-06-2010, 10:28 PM
Via ESPN insider written today:
Kyle Singler, F, Duke Blue Devils
I spoke with a number of GMs on Monday; most of them still have questions about Singler. They wonder who he'll guard in the NBA. They question his toughness. They doubt he's athletic enough. But with all of that said, virtually all of them said they were impressed with his whole body of work -- not just in the tournament, but over the past month or so.

This just reinforces my feeling that most of these guys are clueless in their assessments. They question his toughness?!! Really? They obviously have not watched Kyle in many games. Jon said Kyle was the toughest player he had ever seen. Jay Bilas has said pretty much the same thing in a column last year, and I could go on and on. I wondered how these guys passed on Carlos until the second round. I can only conclude that they don't really watch the games.

ajgoodfella7
04-06-2010, 10:29 PM
They question his toughness? Huh? I find that hard to believe having watched his body of work over 3 years. Dude is nothing if not tough, and he proved it over and over again. Makes me doubt this ESPN writer's credibility.

I agree 100% with you guys. I think his toughness is his greatest attribute. Not saying he can go out there and throw everyone around, but he has definitely proven he can take a bruising with the best of 'em.

RelativeWays
04-06-2010, 10:35 PM
Kyle won us a national championship last night. I hear he was on pace to graduate by the end of this summer. He's gone and God bless him.

TheBrianZoubekExperience
04-06-2010, 11:18 PM
I think when he says they question his toughness they mean they question his physicality playing NBA PFs. I think the author used rather poor wording but I they mean hes a tweener -- not really physical or big enough to play the NBA PF position effectively but not really quick enough to guard NBA SFs. I this is his biggest obstacle. He can find a niche on offensive as an efficient well rounded scorer who can hit shots when called to but I don't think he will be good enough offensively to get too much time if hes getting killed on the other end. I think a lot of NBA doubt if he can match up defensively with NBA perimeter players.

gofurman
04-06-2010, 11:19 PM
Kyle won us a national championship last night. I hear he was on pace to graduate by the end of this summer. He's gone and God bless him.

Is this true? If so then he is gone. most impressive

RelativeWays
04-06-2010, 11:22 PM
Is this true? If so then he is gone. most impressive

Thats the word on other messageboards I visit, so it may or may not be true. If K said at the beginning that his plan was to have Kyle finish up his career at Duke this year, or something to that affect, wouldn't surprise me if he was already on a 3 year course. I'm happy in whatever he decides.

CameronBornAndBred
04-06-2010, 11:30 PM
Via ESPN Insider on Kyle Singler



I think it'd be a mistake for him to leave, he's going to be a role player in the league, so why not spend another year at Duke working on his game?
He'll be a role player regardless of when he goes. I don't expect Kyle to be drafted and be a starter out of the blocks, but it won't surprise me when he works his way in. I'd love if he stays, but won't shed any tears if he goes..he made me do that last night. Best of luck to him, he has done more for Duke in the three years he's been here than several were never able to do in 4.

-bdbd
04-06-2010, 11:34 PM
Thats the word on other messageboards I visit, so it may or may not be true. If K said at the beginning that his plan was to have Kyle finish up his career at Duke this year, or something to that affect, wouldn't surprise me if he was already on a 3 year course. I'm happy in whatever he decides.

I'm sure y'all realize that even if he does graduate this summer, it by no means says he can't stay another year and continue to play, while attending Fuqua or Law School, or whaterver.

I think he declares but doesn't sign an agent as he seeks to assess his draft position. Hard to say whether another year under K would (1) Improve his draft position, (2) Improve his skill set, (3) Give him a chance to be THE MAN on a very visible top-10 team (visibility and improved scoring number, it could be argued, would improve draft position). We'll know soon enough with the new rule requiring a very short window for those seeking to exit the draft, those decisions need to be made in just a few weeks.

I sure hope he chooses to stay...

CA Cameron Crazie
04-07-2010, 12:43 AM
Anyone who questions Kyle's toughness only needs to see the clip of how his chin hurt Mazzulla while he didn't seem to feel it. He's as tough as they come.

DevilHorns
04-07-2010, 01:35 AM
Jay Williams' twitter: http://twitter.com/realJayWilliams

"He will weigh his options but he will be a Top 20 pick if he leaves. RT @urbanbobby5: u think Singler returns to Duke for his senior year?"

CameronBornAndBred
04-07-2010, 07:14 AM
Jay Williams' twitter: http://twitter.com/realJayWilliams

"He will weigh his options but he will be a Top 20 pick if he leaves. RT @urbanbobby5: u think Singler returns to Duke for his senior year?"
HA!!! Read down the tweets some, you will find this gem.
http://tweetphoto.com/17295547

MChambers
04-07-2010, 07:27 AM
I suspect Kyle will go and I'm fine with that. I would like to point out, however, that you hear more stories about people who regret leaving early than people who regret having stayed in college. In fact, the only story remember hearing about a player who wished he had not returned to college was about Ty Lawson.

Orange&BlackSheep
04-07-2010, 07:37 AM
I would be beyond shocked if Kyle came back at this point. The team will be so fun next year with or without him. KS is supported no matter his decision!

JohnGalt
04-07-2010, 07:52 AM
I suspect Kyle will go and I'm fine with that. I would like to point out, however, that you hear more stories about people who regret leaving early than people who regret having stayed in college. In fact, the only story remember hearing about a player who wished he had not returned to college was about Ty Lawson.


And he won a NC that year, couldn't have been all bad...

dukeblue225
04-07-2010, 07:59 AM
In fact, the only story remember hearing about a player who wished he had not returned to college was about Ty Lawson.

I've never heard this. When did he say that? That's great to hear, though.

MChambers
04-07-2010, 09:31 AM
I've never heard this. When did he say that? That's great to hear, though.

I didn't save it, unfortunately. Anyone else remember?

stillcrazie
04-07-2010, 09:32 AM
I didn't save it, unfortunately. Anyone else remember?

I don't have a link, but I distinctly remember Lawson saying it.

Gewebe14
04-07-2010, 10:13 AM
There is a thread about it somewhere - search ty lawson

wgl1228
04-07-2010, 10:24 AM
I think Lawson mentioned it to a Denver newspaper last year.

mpj96
04-07-2010, 10:54 AM
1) kyle has been a warrior for duke for three years.
2) kyle is very close to his degree as of right now
3) kyle just brought us fans a national championship and was the final four mvp

...even if kyle wants to go be a ballet dancer in st. Petersburg, i say good luck. Thanks for the championship. Come back any time.

Great post!!! That actually made me laugh out loud. I could not agree with you more.

MChambers
04-07-2010, 11:48 AM
I think Lawson mentioned it to a Denver newspaper last year.

Here's the thread.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17415&highlight=lawson

CameronBornAndBred
04-07-2010, 12:25 PM
In fact, the only story remember hearing about a player who wished he had not returned to college was about Ty Lawson.
Him and us both. He just had to get in that car and drive.

stumps
04-07-2010, 01:10 PM
Really, really hope Kyle stays. Maybe I'm too idealistic, but I get frustrated with the people who say "I don't care if he goes, he gave us everything he had, and brought us a championship, that's good enough for me". That's great. I agree, the kid plays his heart out. And if he goes because it's the right thing for him, good for him. I'll be disappointed as a fan, but it's his decision. Fine. But why are people satisfied with ONE championship? Why is Jordan better than Kobe? Number of championships. Why is Bill Russell the greatest winner? 11 championships. Why is K the greatest? 4 (hopefully more) championships. (Yes, a bunch of other reasons too, but you get the point). There are a lot (relatively) of college players who have won a championship. How many have won more than one? That's special. I'm from NJ, and have followed Kyrie very closely. My excitement for him nearly matches my level on Monday night. But in one interview, he said he was staying at Duke until he won a championship. Why just one? Not a criticism of Kyrie, just a little discouraging about today's youth (wow, what a soapbox) and the state of the game. Kyle staying, Kyrie winning more than one, Butler having a great year next year - this are all things that can change the face of college basketball in a very positive way. No, they don't have to, they don't owe it to anybody (especially me) but I can dream. I'm sure they have dreams too. But Jon, Zoubs, and Lance all had a dream.......ask them how that turned out!

Let's go Duke!

Scorp4me
04-07-2010, 01:15 PM
I sure would be nice if he stayed. Kinda reminds me of Dunleavey. What a difference having him would have made. We'll be good next year, but would love to have him around another year. Much like Carolina benefited from having players stay longer than expected in Ty and Tyler, we would as well.

DevilHorns
04-07-2010, 01:24 PM
Really, really hope Kyle stays. Maybe I'm too idealistic, but I get frustrated with the people who say "I don't care if he goes, he gave us everything he had, and brought us a championship, that's good enough for me". That's great. I agree, the kid plays his heart out. And if he goes because it's the right thing for him, good for him. I'll be disappointed as a fan, but it's his decision. Fine. But why are people satisfied with ONE championship? Why is Jordan better than Kobe? Number of championships. Why is Bill Russell the greatest winner? 11 championships. Why is K the greatest? 4 (hopefully more) championships. (Yes, a bunch of other reasons too, but you get the point). There are a lot (relatively) of college players who have won a championship. How many have won more than one? That's special. I'm from NJ, and have followed Kyrie very closely. My excitement for him nearly matches my level on Monday night. But in one interview, he said he was staying at Duke until he won a championship. Why just one? Not a criticism of Kyrie, just a little discouraging about today's youth (wow, what a soapbox) and the state of the game. Kyle staying, Kyrie winning more than one, Butler having a great year next year - this are all things that can change the face of college basketball in a very positive way. No, they don't have to, they don't owe it to anybody (especially me) but I can dream. I'm sure they have dreams too. But Jon, Zoubs, and Lance all had a dream.......ask them how that turned out!

Let's go Duke!

From a fan's perspective we obviously want him to stay and win another championship. Its not that we are satisfied with just one.

Kyle WANTS to leave. How can we be so selfish to hope that he stays? Lets hope that he really impressed the scouts with this championship run so that he can leave. This ISNT about US as fans. Its about THEM as individuals. These guys do everything they are asked to do and more. It would be cruel in my eyes to hope that he stays just so he can have a chance at another championship. I want him to go because he wants to go. Here's to Kyle leaving! (I know I am in the minority in this, but it frustrates me when fans post on here that "well I really really hope he stays since we can maybe repeat but if he leaves Ill be behind him"... thats unfair. One of his main goals this year was to go to the NBA. How can you hope for him NOT to accomplish that?)

wilko
04-07-2010, 01:27 PM
But why are people satisfied with ONE championship? No, they don't have to, they don't owe it to anybody (especially me) but I can dream. I'm sure they have dreams too. Let's go Duke!

I hear ya!
I cant tell you that you are wrong for having that dream cuz, I share it too. However, if it aint Kyles dream then its moot.

I'm sure Kyle (and team) got a good look at the extreme pain and agony DaSean Butler was in after his tumble. By all accounts I have read he was a good guy who worked hard and certainly didn't deserve THAT to happen to him.

I wish him well and hope he can recover to play again, but there are no guarantees.

Next yr, if THAT happened to Kyle (or any of our guys) I'd be crushed. I cant in good conscience tell him to leave money on the table when he may not have a 2nd chance.

That said, I hope he shares the dream and comes back for one more rodeo.
But I cant hold it against him for going or looking at his options. Its his choice and we should respect him and back him for it either way.

I just don't want to set myself up for disappointment, so its easier to count him as gone.

MChambers
04-07-2010, 01:33 PM
Pretty good points by previous poster. It's a different animal with the shaky CBA, though. The opportunities may not be the same next season. Also, considering Kyle is most likely a mid-to-late first round pick, it'd probably be less Wizards and more Spurs/Hawks, etc. The only way he's in danger of playing for a terrible, moribund franchise would be if he slips to the early second.

At least as it stands today, four of the five last picks in the first round belong to awful franchises: Wizards, Nyets, TWolves, and Memphis. Orlando has one of those picks, however. (Not saying that I think this is where Kyle will go, but just pointing out that being a late first round pick does not mean that you are automatically on a decent team.)

Of course, a player also could see this as an opportunity. As a DC resident, I'd enjoy seeing Kyle here. He would definitely increase the average basketball IQ of the team.

CameronBornAndBred
04-07-2010, 01:40 PM
Why is Jordan better than Kobe? Number of championships.
Bad example..Jordan had one NCAA championship and left after 3 years. :eek:

JohnGalt
04-07-2010, 01:58 PM
From a fan's perspective we obviously want him to stay and win another championship. Its not that we are satisfied with just one.

Kyle WANTS to leave. How can we be so selfish to hope that he stays? Lets hope that he really impressed the scouts with this championship run so that he can leave. This ISNT about US as fans. Its about THEM as individuals. These guys do everything they are asked to do and more. It would be cruel in my eyes to hope that he stays just so he can have a chance at another championship. I want him to go because he wants to go. Here's to Kyle leaving! (I know I am in the minority in this, but it frustrates me when fans post on here that "well I really really hope he stays since we can maybe repeat but if he leaves Ill be behind him"... thats unfair. One of his main goals this year was to go to the NBA. How can you hope for him NOT to accomplish that?)

This is a little extreme although I see your point. Injuries aside, it's hard to imagine Kyle's stock dropping after another year at Duke especially while riding in the Lambo Kyrie will be driving. Selfish for me hoping he'll stay? Maybe. Cruel? Eh, not so much. I wish I were that fortunate to have that sort of a decision.

Plus, how do you know he hasn't set graduating on time or winning 2 national champions or being POY in the ACC as goals?

DevilHorns
04-07-2010, 02:08 PM
This is a little extreme although I see your point. Injuries aside, it's hard to imagine Kyle's stock dropping after another year at Duke especially while riding in the Lambo Kyrie will be driving. Selfish for me hoping he'll stay? Maybe. Cruel? Eh, not so much. I wish I were that fortunate to have that sort of a decision.

Plus, how do you know he hasn't set graduating on time or winning 2 national champions or being POY in the ACC as goals?

Not to single you out, since this has built up in me for a few days reading this thread:

I think its definitely selfish and cruel for merely hoping that he stays IF his dream was to leave this year (and from all accounts, it is). Its selfish and cruel because he was one of if not the most important player we had on the team all year and gave Duke fandom all that we could ever hope for in a championship. After he did all that for us, how can we even hope that his dreams of making the NBA this year do not come true?

I know that we're not going to jump ship on him if he does declare--- thats not the point, the point is to see as fans that our wishes and desires should not trump the student-athletes wishes and desires. We are blessed to have him represent Duke for the past 3 years. Our mindset as fans should be for the good of him, not for the good of Duke basketball next year.

Channing
04-07-2010, 02:21 PM
Not to single you out, since this has built up in me for a few days reading this thread:

I think its definitely selfish and cruel for merely hoping that he stays IF his dream was to leave this year (and from all accounts, it is). Its selfish and cruel because he was one of if not the most important player we had on the team all year and gave Duke fandom all that we could ever hope for in a championship. After he did all that for us, how can we even hope that his dreams of making the NBA this year do not come true?

I know that we're not going to jump ship on him if he does declare--- thats not the point, the point is to see as fans that our wishes and desires should not trump the student-athletes wishes and desires. We are blessed to have him represent Duke for the past 3 years. Our mindset as fans should be for the good of him, not for the good of Duke basketball next year.

I think you are being a little dramatic. Do I hope Singler comes back? As a fan, yes, I do (selfish, yes. cruel, hardly). I am a Duke basketball fan first and foremost. However, if Singler has played his way into a draft position he is comfortable with and feels it is in his best interest to leave, I wish him well, thank him heartily for three stellar years of service, and add his team to the random NBA teams I check out every couple of nights to see how former Dukies are doing.

What I do hope is that Singler doesn't over inflate where his projected jumping off point in the draft is. I would hate to see him leave expecting to be a late first rounder, only to be picked late second round.

gam7
04-07-2010, 02:32 PM
This is a little extreme although I see your point. Injuries aside, it's hard to imagine Kyle's stock dropping after another year at Duke especially while riding in the Lambo Kyrie will be driving.

I also don't see his stock climbing with another year. I think Kyle is a known quantity, and as much as I'd like to see him come back, I am not sure how there could be any more positive momentum for him than there is right now.

Kfanarmy
04-07-2010, 02:47 PM
From a fan's perspective we obviously want him to stay and win another championship. Its not that we are satisfied with just one.

Kyle WANTS to leave... [/B])

Unless you have a source, this is simply rumor mongering/starting.

KShip21
04-07-2010, 02:51 PM
Not that anyone really knows at this point, but this is from Andy Katz's pre season top 25 posted earlier

2. Duke: This could change if Kyle Singler doesn't return, but he appears more likely to stay. If that's the case, he joins Nolan Smith, Mason and Miles Plumlee and additions Kyrie Irving and redshirt Seth Curry. Other teams are getting pushed down in the poll due to players being on the fence, but there's no indication yet that Singler is gone.

Hope he's right! Only time will tell.....

DevilHorns
04-07-2010, 03:07 PM
Unless you have a source, this is simply rumor mongering/starting.

My goal is not to start rumors. I even wrote in the the big IF if you go look at my post. It is under my belief currently that it was his goal to leave this year, and that K was going to try and prepare him for the leap after this bball season. I am trying to find the sources I read, but now all my google hits are just about championships :D If I find something I will post it. Then again, his goals could change during the year, and at this point he may have adjusted his goals.

I do have this quote:
(http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/04/07/1361374/devils-should-have-talentto-make.html)

"I'll just talk to Coach and get his opinion, talk to my family," he said. ... I'm just going to let myself be open to what Coach has to say, because he has my best interest [at heart]."

which gives you his frame of mind. He's keeping it close to his chest. Which he should do. Other less reliable sources of evidence include Nolan's slip in the conference after the WVU game that he didn't want this to be Kyle's last game.

Regardless, I think I made my point. Fans should not be asking more from players like Kyle if his wishes happen to not align with the Duke program next year. We should hope for his wishes to come true, regardless what they may be (obviously I hope his wish now is to stay one more year).

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-07-2010, 03:20 PM
Not that anyone really knows at this point, but this is from Andy Katz's pre season top 25 posted earlier

2. Duke: This could change if Kyle Singler doesn't return, but he appears more likely to stay. If that's the case, he joins Nolan Smith, Mason and Miles Plumlee and additions Kyrie Irving and redshirt Seth Curry. Other teams are getting pushed down in the poll due to players being on the fence, but there's no indication yet that Singler is gone.

Hope he's right! Only time will tell.....

Just about to post this......Seems great since andy katz seems to be that guy when it comes to inside information for college hoops

Duvall
04-07-2010, 03:25 PM
Just about to post this......Seems great since andy katz seems to be that guy when it comes to inside information for college hoops

Since when? I wouldn't put any credence in anything Katz has to say.

Channing
04-07-2010, 03:29 PM
Just about to post this......Seems great since andy katz seems to be that guy when it comes to inside information for college hoops

he also has Avery Bradley coming back (who has already declared).

uh_no
04-07-2010, 03:56 PM
rumor from kyle's GF is that he's leaving.....but i'm not sure how much i buy it....seeing as I heard it through the grapevine......but personally i don't even know if kyle knows what his plans are.....if he's smart he'll sit on it...not smart to make these kinds of decisions coming off the championship high.....let it brew and enjoy it for a couple weeks....then start talking to K, coaches, family, deciding what he would do if he could have his way, then start thinking about $, draft order, projections, what scouts say....etc.....then he can even test the waters for 2 weeks and then make the decisions

jacone21
04-07-2010, 04:01 PM
I bet Kyle wants to stay, and I bet Kyle wants to go... for different reasons. In the end, he'll do what's best for him and his family and his life. That's the way it should be. God bless him.

MChambers
04-07-2010, 04:06 PM
I bet Kyle wants to stay, and I bet Kyle wants to go... for different reasons. In the end, he'll do what's best for him and his family and his life. That's the way it should be. God bless him.

actually, Kyle has two great choices. Must be a little hard.

superdave
04-07-2010, 04:21 PM
Quote: The word on the street is that his people are already talking to agents. Where will he go? Anywhere between the late first round to the second if he's in the draft.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft&id=5059811

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-07-2010, 04:24 PM
If kyle goes to the nba I think it would be mostly for the money and the lifestyle, I mean he has the chance to be a college legend and I honestly don't see him playing that much in the nba next year.

slower
04-07-2010, 04:25 PM
My mistake, my first comment was on topic but I allowed myself to fight an unwarranted verbal jab with a verbal jab of my own.

Come on, man - stay tough. Didn't you resolve to keep it classy for a while? Let us enjoy our time and don't let yourself get provoked. We're gonna cut you some slack as long as you play nice. ;)

Channing
04-07-2010, 04:38 PM
If Kyle doesnt have a first round guaranty I think leaving is an absolute mistake. Next year's draft class is going to be much weaker than this year with so many people leaving early who ordinarily would have stayed due to the lockout. As a second round pick, his contract will be for peanuts anyway (by NBA standards). Any lockout will eventually end, and a good draft position will leave him in far better stead financially than a second round pick in this years draft.

slower
04-07-2010, 04:45 PM
Look, Kyle delivered the goods. He owes us NOTHING beyond what he has already delivered. There are many reasons for him to go pro. If he goes, I DO think that, when he gets older, he will regret missing that extra year of college, the amazing team that could be next year and (possibly) coming back to see his jersey hanging in the rafters. And it would be one heck of a Senior Day next year.

As for Nolan - well, how could you find a more beloved captain than ndotsmitty? Kyle is my favorite Duke PLAYER of all time (the greatest warrior of them all, bar none), but Nolan is my favorite PERSON of all Duke players past and present (the guy just radiates love and joy).

And I can't wait for next year to see the electricity generated by Kyrie, who I also feel will be something special. Not to mention Mason and Miles and Dre and Seth and Ryan and the rest of the newcomers. This may be slightly jumping the gun, but we may have just entered the next golden age of Duke basketball.

This year was K's masterpiece of coaching. And as I said in another thread, THIS ring was for the MIDDLE FINGER. :D

ndkjr70
04-07-2010, 04:45 PM
This is just me talking out loud to myself, but his reaction to the "One more year! one more year! one more year!" chants was a little disheartening. He just kind of smiled and actually interrupted them to start his tiny speech. While I didn't expect him to flat out say "Aww heck yeah, one more year it is!"... I kind of hoped for some acknowledgement.

SoCalDukeFan
04-07-2010, 04:53 PM
rumor from kyle's GF is that he's leaving.....but i'm not sure how much i buy it....seeing as I heard it through the grapevine......but personally i don't even know if kyle knows what his plans are.....if he's smart he'll sit on it...not smart to make these kinds of decisions coming off the championship high.....let it brew and enjoy it for a couple weeks....then start talking to K, coaches, family, deciding what he would do if he could have his way, then start thinking about $, draft order, projections, what scouts say....etc.....then he can even test the waters for 2 weeks and then make the decisions

is she a Duke frosh, soph or junior? Maybe she can convince him to stay.

Personally I think he is going and I also think he will be a productive NBA player.

SoCal

johnb
04-07-2010, 04:56 PM
I liked Brad Stevens' perspective regarding 'next man up.'

We'll play with who is there next year. Either way, we'll be fine--which I define as getting to watch the team every 5-10 days for several months.

coldriver10
04-07-2010, 05:02 PM
I think Kyle's gonna go. Either way, we won't know for sure until May 8 (I think), the deadline for underclassmen to withdraw from the draft. I'm sure he'll put his name in, and I wouldn't be surprised if he talks to an agent or two. As long as he doesn't hire one, he can withdraw if he doesn't like what he's hearing.

I'd love for you to stay, Kyle, but you brought the team where we all wanted to be. And for that, I am tremendously thankful and wish you the very best.

(Since, you know, he's clearly going to read this.)

dukeblue225
04-07-2010, 05:27 PM
This is just me talking out loud to myself, but his reaction to the "One more year! one more year! one more year!" chants was a little disheartening. He just kind of smiled and actually interrupted them to start his tiny speech. While I didn't expect him to flat out say "Aww heck yeah, one more year it is!"... I kind of hoped for some acknowledgement.

I had the same sort of feeling from his speech. I also thought what he said about just living in the moment sort of spoke to his leaning towards declaring for the draft, IMO.

But then again, Kyle is not necessarily the most trained public speaker and speaking in front of his peers who look at him as somewhat of an idol could make anyone nervous.

Bluedog
04-07-2010, 05:38 PM
Zoubek was invited and is expected to participate in the Portsmouth Invitational.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2010-Portsmouth-Invitational-Official-Rosters-and-Preview-3424/

Looks like Scheyer turned down the invite. Draft Express has Zoubek being drafted 28th in second round (i.e. third to last), while they have Scheyer going undrafted. Who would have possibly thought that could potentially happen in January? In any event, as they say, you can't teach size. Zoubek at least would be a big body to bang against in practice and has decent footwork and hands for a 7-footer. Obviously, doesn't have the greatest footspeed, post moves, or a reliable 15-foot jumper, but I'd think somebody would take a chance on him at least late in the draft or inviting him to try out as a free agent. Zoubek is going to be teamed up with Wayne Chism and Lazar Haywood among others.

Thoughts?

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-07-2010, 05:41 PM
Agreed, you can't teach size, which is why zoubs is considered in the conversation for going drafted, also i feel a little sad for Jon, as he had a great season but isn't even on the second round draft board.

Greg_Newton
04-07-2010, 05:51 PM
It's funny, but it's actually easier for me to picture Z blending right in when I watch NBA games than it is for me to picture any of our other players. Here's my case

1) He's a legitimate, sturdy 7'1". There simply aren't that many humans that fit this profile, who can come in off the bench and bang with a Shaq or an Al Jefferson. There are plenty of seven-footers that get a shot who are much less battle-tested than Z.

2) He's the best rebounder in the country, and rebounding is the one skill that translates to any level.

3) He's a brilliant positional defender, but he actually moves his feet very well on defense too (remember the charge he took on the 6'8" when he tried to break him down 20' from the rim?).

4) Here's the most interesting point, for me: Z won't ever be more than a role player... but he's perfectly suited for and okay with that role. It's what he's always been, and it's what he knows how to do - set killer screens, rebound, pass, provide an intimidating defensive presence.

I think a guy like Kyle might even have a greater adjustment to make - he's used to being "the man" and getting all his points off of jump shots engineered from screens and plays. How will he handle being a role player off the bench? Not an issue for Z, who can come right in and do what he does best. Plus, in a league full of entitled, prima donna, me-first ballhogs, might it not be a good thing to have such a head-to-the-grindstone unselfish mentality to complement your?

A major knock on wood for injuries, but I see no reason any team WOULDN'T want a healthy Z on their roster.

dyedwab
04-07-2010, 06:35 PM
I do know Coach K will recommend staying at Duke and finishing his degree. I'm just agreeing with him I guess.

Actually, though I can't find the link right now, I'm fairly certain that Coach K was on the record in the pre-season saying that the goal was for Kyle to play well enough so he could leave for the NBA (or something to that effect).

The key for Kyle (and for Nolan) is where would they be expected to end up in the NBA draft - and what teams would they play for.

Ironically, I think Kyle's game will be even better suited to the NBA than it is to college ball, yet i don't think NBA scout agree enough to make him a mid 1st round pick - yet.

TheBrianZoubekExperience
04-07-2010, 06:36 PM
Zoubek was invited and is expected to participate in the Portsmouth Invitational.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2010-Portsmouth-Invitational-Official-Rosters-and-Preview-3424/

Looks like Scheyer turned down the invite. Draft Express has Zoubek being drafted 28th in second round (i.e. third to last), while they have Scheyer going undrafted. Who would have possibly thought that could potentially happen in January? In any event, as they say, you can't teach size. Zoubek at least would be a big body to bang against in practice and has decent footwork and hands for a 7-footer. Obviously, doesn't have the greatest footspeed, post moves, or a reliable 15-foot jumper, but I'd think somebody would take a chance on him at least late in the draft or inviting him to try out as a free agent. Zoubek is going to be teamed up with Wayne Chism and Lazar Haywood among others.

Thoughts?

Zoubek pulled out of Portsmouth. FYI.

dyedwab
04-07-2010, 06:43 PM
I also don't see his stock climbing with another year. I think Kyle is a known quantity, and as much as I'd like to see him come back, I am not sure how there could be any more positive momentum for him than there is right now.

Why not? I mean if Kyle gets the right info from the NBA and decides to go, I wish him extremely well, but the idea that he can't improve his stock strikes me as silly.

Kyle is a great basketball player with lots of different abilities. But there are things he can improve on, e.g. Driving/posting up smaller players, etc.

But this brings up a larger point about both one-and-dones and early entry. The presumption of scouts is that players are who they are at 18 and only improve within a set range. this strikes me a ludicrous. Players get better. And if Kyle stays, he can too.

AZLA
04-07-2010, 07:25 PM
Zoubek was invited and is expected to participate in the Portsmouth Invitational.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2010-Portsmouth-Invitational-Official-Rosters-and-Preview-3424/

Zoubek at least would be a big body to bang against in practice and has decent footwork and hands for a 7-footer. Obviously, doesn't have the greatest footspeed, post moves, or a reliable 15-foot jumper, but I'd think somebody would take a chance on him at least late in the draft or inviting him to try out as a free agent. Zoubek is going to be teamed up with Wayne Chism and Lazar Haywood among others.

Thoughts?

Especially during the second half of the season Zoubek developed a proven niche as a rebounding machine on both ends. Also, by playing within himself he's minimized a lot of errors he might have made previously -- which has elevated his stock. That also allowed him more time on the floor to showcase some off the ball skills I didn't realize he had before. He's great at setting screens and can reach and make steals in traffic. But, he's also a solid passer in the lane, too. Obviously getting rebounds in the NBA is much more difficult and there will be plenty of high jumpers who will challenge him in addition to the bigs in the league. And yes, his foot-speed will be very challenging. However, what I've noticed is that Zoubek has developed a great instinct for getting into the right position for grabbing rebounds before the shot and boxing out. He's also exhibited some toughness to the point I think he's one of the toughest Duke players we've seen in a long long time.

So... if he's packaged correctly by his reps, to a team with a key star needing good role players who can set tough picks, get boards and set up players in the lane on passes... he may some have quality opportunities. And based on his career at Duke, opportunity is all he needs to prove people wrong and succeed.

Sidenote: I thought it was telling during the post game where Coach K interrupted and corrected a reporter who asked about Zoubek's "up and down career" while at Duke. Finally Zoubek chimed in (pointedly) and basically took over the conversation wanting to essentially speak for himself. He articulated his response well, is obviously a smart guy, and frankly -- I got the sense he knows he's arrived; he was the leader on that team; and, doesn't care what any critics think of him. He's earned a lot of respect this season and good for him.

Duke Mom
04-07-2010, 07:40 PM
What a joy it has been to watch this kid play basketball!

So much for Singler Speculation:

1.) Only Kyle can figure out what is truly best for Kyle. We have absolutely no clue what he really wants or what will make him happy.

2.) Whatever he decides, I have only two things to say -
"Thank you so much!" and "The very best of luck!"

paul plumlee
04-07-2010, 08:09 PM
Please come back for your senior year, Kyle. You're practically my favorite player.

ice-9
04-07-2010, 09:23 PM
I spoke with a number of GMs on Monday; most of them still have questions about Singler. They wonder who he'll guard in the NBA. They question his toughness. They doubt he's athletic enough. But with all of that said, virtually all of them said they were impressed with his whole body of work -- not just in the tournament, but over the past month or so.

Those concerns won't be addressed with another year at Duke.

- Who he'll guard? In college, he'll be mostly guarding college players

- Toughness? This one I don't get at all. If GMs still question Kyle's toughness...

- Athleticm -- people have seen enough of Kyle the last three years to have formed an opinion of his athleticism. Another year won't change that

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-07-2010, 09:25 PM
Well I can say one year can change a lot, just look at zoubs,

ice-9
04-07-2010, 09:36 PM
Well I can say one year can change a lot, just look at zoubs,

For someone who didn't start the year before, sure, definitely.

But as one of the leaders of the team? Final Four MOP? First team All-ACC? I just don't think the potential incremental benefit is worth the considerable risk he'll be taking.

fgb
04-07-2010, 09:56 PM
here's a thought: maybe scheyer is hoping not to get drafted. that way, he could pretty much pick a team, at least from among those who invite him to camp. and a non-drafted invitee is really no different than a second rounder; they both have to make the team, as opposed to the guaranteed money that a first rounder gets. so assuming he would be a second round pick at best--a pretty safe assumption, i think--this way, he gets to pick the best situation for himself.

Double DD
04-07-2010, 10:29 PM
Zoubek pulled out of Portsmouth. FYI.

Hmm, I'm not sure how good an idea that is for him. A good performance would go a long way to helping him get drafted. I'm guessing his (or more accurately his agent's) logic is that Portsmouth does tend to be guard dominated. But I don't think it's his best move, as more info would increase the comfort level of drafting a player who's averaged only about 15 min for his career.

Scheyer turning down his invite isn't surprising though. There's enough game tape on him in a variety of contexts that there's not much to be changed in his stock from attending.

ice-9
04-07-2010, 10:34 PM
I'm thinking the reason is that Zoubs got reassurance from a team that he'll get picked reasonably high? So no point going to the camp.

MarkD83
04-07-2010, 10:35 PM
I am still basking in the glory of the National Championship, but I have to chime in with a different view of the draft.

The NBA is a business and GMs are businessmen that understand supply and demand. The good ones also understand that the bad ones make bad decisions. They also understand that they have to deal with agents, so....

Here are my rules about what GMs say.

1. They will always default to telling a player to declare so that supply is high.

2. Bad GMs will make bad decisions and good players will fall in the draft.

3. Good GMs will tell good players that they have faults. They won't tell them they have enough faults to keep them out of the draft, but just enough so that when they talk to agents they can "sand-bag" where they will pick a player.

This means any analysis I hear about a players draft status is only a half-truth, because there is no way it pays for a good GM to tell the truth.

DevilHorns
04-07-2010, 10:37 PM
What about Lance Thomas? Anyone know? Is he planning on trying for the draft or planning on going overseas?

jacone21
04-07-2010, 10:48 PM
What about Lance Thomas? Anyone know? Is he planning on trying for the draft or planning on going overseas?

I heard that his girlfriend said that he is relocating to an uncharted island in the South Pacific to train under the tutelage of Patrick Davidson. Could be just a rumor, though.

dukechem
04-08-2010, 12:33 AM
I haven't quite finished reading this whole thread, but there are several issues I haven't seen mentioned.

First, Singler has given us three great years. Back in the day before freshman eligibility, that's all we got out of anyone. Showing my age, how great would it have been to have had Bobby Verga or Jack Marin for four years?

Second, as great as it would be to have Singler back next year, the team may be better off without him. Think about who would have to sit because Singler is taking 30+ minutes of playing time. Without him, we may have Smith, Irving, Curry, and the Plumlees starting with Dawkins, Kelly, and the newcomers on the bench. If Singler returns, someone gets pushed even further down in the rotation. Besides the possibility of losing a future contributer to transfer, you also raise the possibility of having unhappy role players and a less cohesive team.

I think Singler is gone, so another question is whether K will hoist the championship banner before he graduates. I know someone has posted that he may be close to graduation; anyone know for sure?

Personally, I don't like the one-and-dones at all, and I'm not crazy about the two-and-dones. But three years and close to a degree is fine with me (as if anybody cared.) What I don't like is making a mockery of the education system, and that's what I see very early entry doing.

Kedsy
04-08-2010, 12:51 AM
Second, as great as it would be to have Singler back next year, the team may be better off without him. Think about who would have to sit because Singler is taking 30+ minutes of playing time. Without him, we may have Smith, Irving, Curry, and the Plumlees starting with Dawkins, Kelly, and the newcomers on the bench. If Singler returns, someone gets pushed even further down in the rotation. Besides the possibility of losing a future contributer to transfer, you also raise the possibility of having unhappy role players and a less cohesive team.

While I believe our team next year will be outstanding whether or not Kyle is with us, I think you've pushed it a bit too far in saying the team could be better without him. He would fit in quite well with the style we're going to play next year, and his size gives us defensive dimensions we're not going to get from other players on the roster (unless Mr. Felix is a lot better right out of the gate than I expect).

Also, the players most likely to be "pushed" out of the regular rotation would likely be Tyler Thornton, who is reputed to be a great teammate, and Carrick Felix, who would seem unlikely to transfer one year after he transferred in. Obviously others would also "lose" a few minutes each if Kyle was in the rotation, but in my opinion only TT and CF would end up in a minute range that would possibly make someone unhappy, and my guess is both would be willing to wait a year for rotation minutes if it meant a better chance to win it all.

It's not worth fussing over whether Kyle will stay or leave. He'll do what's best for him (which is exactly what he should do), and we'll know for sure in a few weeks.

licc85
04-08-2010, 01:10 AM
While I believe our team next year will be outstanding whether or not Kyle is with us, I think you've pushed it a bit too far in saying the team could be better without him. He would fit in quite well with the style we're going to play next year, and his size gives us defensive dimensions we're not going to get from other players on the roster (unless Mr. Felix is a lot better right out of the gate than I expect).

Also, the players most likely to be "pushed" out of the regular rotation would likely be Tyler Thornton, who is reputed to be a great teammate, and Carrick Felix, who would seem unlikely to transfer one year after he transferred in. Obviously others would also "lose" a few minutes each if Kyle was in the rotation, but in my opinion only TT and CF would end up in a minute range that would possibly make someone unhappy, and my guess is both would be willing to wait a year for rotation minutes if it meant a better chance to win it all.

It's not worth fussing over whether Kyle will stay or leave. He'll do what's best for him (which is exactly what he should do), and we'll know for sure in a few weeks.

this is exactly the same conversation we had about gerald henderson last year. I certainly want Kyle to stay, I think he gives us someone who is a matchup nightmare for opposing teams and a solid rebounder and defender at his position, but think about it. If G had stayed, would we have won it all? I don't think so . . team chemistry would have been much different and shot distribution would have REALLY been different.

I don't think Nolan would have developed quite as much with G taking his shots, and although G is quite a physical specimen, he wasn't half as good as nolan at creating his own shot last year. But then again, who knows? All I know is I'm glad things worked out the way they did. And whether or not Kyle stays or goes, I'm with him 100%

Spam Filter
04-08-2010, 01:53 AM
I think all Duke fans are glad for the way it worked out, but there is no way you can convince me that we'd been worse off with Gerald on the team, the team would have been a little different, but Coach K would have found a way to make it work.

G would have been a first team AA caliber player, I can't think of one reason how the team wouldn't have been better. Unless you think somehow he'd have affected the lockerroom chemistry of the team negatively.

Just thinking about the Butler game, I think Gerald's athleticism, strength, his ability to finish at the rim through contact would have been a huge match up problem for Butler.

Deslok
04-08-2010, 02:43 AM
I know what you are saying, but the simple fact is... there's no way we'd be better off... since we are national champions :D. So even if Lebron James had thought about coming to Duke this past year, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have won any more trophies than we already did. Nothing but love for the Duke alums, but so glad for how it worked out.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-08-2010, 06:02 AM
I know what you are saying, but the simple fact is... there's no way we'd be better off... since we are national champions :D. So even if Lebron James had thought about coming to Duke this past year, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have won any more trophies than we already did. Nothing but love for the Duke alums, but so glad for how it worked out.

Agreed, this just shows you how we didn't need the john walls, the Taylor Kings on our team to be sucessful. Now having them may have had us pass the "Eye Test" but look how that turned out for kansas and UK

Matches
04-08-2010, 07:47 AM
I think Singler is gone, so another question is whether K will hoist the championship banner before he graduates. I know someone has posted that he may be close to graduation; anyone know for sure?



K's rule on hanging banners is that the seniors have to graduate. Since Kyle is not a senior, his graduation has no effect on whether the banner is raised.

Kedsy
04-08-2010, 08:52 AM
this is exactly the same conversation we had about gerald henderson last year.

Well, my recollection is last year practically everyone thought we'd be worse off without G, so we didn't have the discussion. Personally, however, I wasn't so sure. Because G's game was one-on-one, and once he got the ball it rarely went back out to anyone else, which led the team to often stand around and watch him do amazing things. With G on the team, if you shut him down you pretty much shut down Duke. So it was possible we'd be better without him if Nolan stepped up.

I don't feel the same way about Kyle. He plays within the team concept and he's shown himself to be adept at many different styles. Also, when G left, we had Nolan who could put himself into the "athlete/scorer" niche G had occupied, but next year other than Carrick Felix (who is a complete unknown) we won't have anyone to fill the "big wing" defensive niche Kyle would occupy. In my mind, the situation is completely different than it was with G.

That said, I still believe the team will be a title contender next year, with or without Kyle.

roywhite
04-08-2010, 08:59 AM
Well, my recollection is last year practically everyone thought we'd be worse off without G, so we didn't have the discussion. Personally, however, I wasn't so sure. Because G's game was one-on-one, and once he got the ball it rarely went back out to anyone else, which led the team to often stand around and watch him do amazing things. With G on the team, if you shut him down you pretty much shut down Duke. So it was possible we'd be better without him if Nolan stepped up.

I don't feel the same way about Kyle. He plays within the team concept and he's shown himself to be adept at many different styles. Also, when G left, we had Nolan who could put himself into the "athlete/scorer" niche G had occupied, but next year other than Carrick Felix (who is a complete unknown) we won't have anyone to fill the "big wing" defensive niche Kyle would occupy. In my mind, the situation is completely different than it was with G.

That said, I still believe the team will be a title contender next year, with or without Kyle.

I agree with the point about Kyle and I'm inclined to agree with the point about the loss of Gerald, with one caveat. We didn't have the offensive rebounding prowess that we had this year; more second chance points last year would have helped.

Kedsy
04-08-2010, 09:06 AM
I agree with the point about Kyle and I'm inclined to agree with the point about the loss of Gerald, with one caveat. We didn't have the offensive rebounding prowess that we had this year; more second chance points last year would have helped.

No question it would have helped, and I wasn't bad mouthing G or last year's team.

Perhaps I should have phrased it that G's strengths were best utilized in an NBA-style offense, but not so much in other styles, so if the team could play a different style it could conceivably be better without him (although it was by no means a certainty at this point last year); but Kyle blends better with multiple styles so it's less likely the team would be better without him.

roywhite
04-08-2010, 09:26 AM
Yep. Kyle's stat line in the national championship:
19 points 9 rebounds 2 asst 2 blocks
and held Butler's star to 2-11 shooting

How many other player in Duke history have had such complete games in key postseason action?

It's a short list, and the guys on it have their jerseys in the rafters.

Kyle will be missed.

wacobluedevil
04-08-2010, 11:59 AM
Question: will Turner's and the Kentucky Five's entries into the draft enter into Kyle's thinking, and if so, to what extent?

CrazieDUMB
04-08-2010, 12:00 PM
One thing that I don't think has been mentioned yet is the potential for a lockout in 2011. The fact that there might not even BE a draft to declare for in 2011 may push him to go now.

Also, Bill Simmons seems to believe that the resolution of the lockout will have to be teams not paying the 10-12th guys on on team as well, and especially rookies. Thus, even if the lockout is resolved and they can agree on a new CBA, it's going to be much less friendly to players like Singler, who I think would have to be a role player in the NBA. He may want to cash out now, while he's on top of the college basketball universe.

I (selfishly) hope he stays, but this is something to consider.

NSDukeFan
04-08-2010, 02:21 PM
No question it would have helped, and I wasn't bad mouthing G or last year's team.

Perhaps I should have phrased it that G's strengths were best utilized in an NBA-style offense, but not so much in other styles, so if the team could play a different style it could conceivably be better without him (although it was by no means a certainty at this point last year); but Kyle blends better with multiple styles so it's less likely the team would be better without him.

I have a hard time believing that next year's team would be better with Kyle. I can't think of a situation where that would be the case. Yes, some other guys may not improve as much due to not getting as much of a chance to play in games, but man, what practices! (I think there will be very spirited practices next year, regardless.) I also don't think this year's team would have been worse off with G. I feel that K would have figured out a way to make it work and that G would have improved his passing this year, just like Kyle, Jon and Nolan did. And there certainly were not any problems with G's D, so I don't think that would have hurt us. Would we still have one the championship? So hard to say, because a few bounces or half-court shots can make the difference, but I don't think G's presence this year would have hurt the team.

Kedsy
04-08-2010, 02:26 PM
I have a hard time believing that next year's team would be better with Kyle.

You mean wouldn't, right?

CameronBornAndBred
04-08-2010, 04:16 PM
but I don't think G's presence this year would have hurt the team.
I'm pretty sure Zoubek never would have broken out the way he did if G were on the team, and I don't think we even make it to the Final Four without the new Zoubs. (or any of the big's contributions this year, all of them would have seen less time except for Lance IMO)

gumbomoop
04-08-2010, 04:29 PM
I still believe the team will be a title contender next year, with or without Kyle.


Agree. With KS, consensus preseason #!. Without, consensus 6-7, which is too low, should be 3-5.

KI is realest of deals [we'll get to see him in All-Star games this and next Sat]; NS will be better[!!]; SC, rumor has it, will surprise the bball world. Next year is "alarmingly athletic," and that includes both MPs. DD is a pretty good shooter. Ha! RK will play.

No guarantees, but nothing but good news.

CDu
04-08-2010, 04:34 PM
I'm pretty sure Zoubek never would have broken out the way he did if G were on the team, and I don't think we even make it to the Final Four without the new Zoubs. (or any of the big's contributions this year, all of them would have seen less time except for Lance IMO)

Yeah, it is very possible that we wouldn't have seen the emergence of Zoubek had Henderson stayed. But it's also possible that Zoubek still would have emerged, and Henderson would have thrived with Zoubek's monster screens and creation of second-chance opportunities.

It's impossible to say for sure, because all the dynamics change if Henderson is here. For similar reasons, it's impossible to be sure that we wouldn't have won the title had Henderson stayed.

The most important thing is that we don't have to look back and say "what if." We got the championship!

Hopefully, next year's team is a matter of reloading (there'll be a lot to reload because we're losing a lot) rather than rebuilding.

NSDukeFan
04-08-2010, 11:32 PM
You mean wouldn't, right?

Yes, of course you are correct. My mistake.

Jderf
04-09-2010, 06:18 AM
Yep. Kyle's stat line in the national championship:
19 points 9 rebounds 2 asst 2 blocks
and held Butler's star to 2-11 shooting

How many other player in Duke history have had such complete games in key postseason action?

It was a pretty great time to have a great game. However, I feel like the one thing holding him back from having one of the most clutch Duke performances ever (keeping him out of Laettner territory) was completely cluncking that turn around jumper in the last minute. If that had dropped, his performance would have been legendary - and it sure looked pretty, until it clanged off the rim.

That said, I think Singler is gone. Being on campus, I've heard from multiple people who are close with both Kyle and his girlfriend that the lowdown was this: if we win the NC, he is gone. It seemed like a pretty fair trade at the time, and now I think I have to say, "Well done, kid. Well done." Still, I wouldn't say I'd be surprised if Kyle just can't resist the chance to double up in the end, and it sure would be nice. But, I think, when all is said and done, this kid belongs in the NBA. His stint here at Duke has worked out pretty well for us, and I hope he keeps representing us well for the rest of his career.

roywhite
04-09-2010, 08:18 AM
It was a pretty great time to have a great game. However, I feel like the one thing holding him back from having one of the most clutch Duke performances ever (keeping him out of Laettner territory) was completely cluncking that turn around jumper in the last minute. If that had dropped, his performance would have been legendary - and it sure looked pretty, until it clanged off the rim.

That said, I think Singler is gone. Being on campus, I've heard from multiple people who are close with both Kyle and his girlfriend that the lowdown was this: if we win the NC, he is gone. It seemed like a pretty fair trade at the time, and now I think I have to say, "Well done, kid. Well done." Still, I wouldn't say I'd be surprised if Kyle just can't resist the chance to double up in the end, and it sure would be nice. But, I think, when all is said and done, this kid belongs in the NBA. His stint here at Duke has worked out pretty well for us, and I hope he keeps representing us well for the rest of his career.

Agree. No inside info, but with the national championship and some improved rankings in mock drafts, seems likely and reasonable that Kyle will make the jump.

That would mean Duke would lose players who played 143 minutes of the 200 total in the championship game. Yikes---the talent is there to have another good team, but it won't be much like the 2009-10 team. But that's the nature of college basketball; we've got the best coach to figure out the best composition of the new team.

Jderf
04-09-2010, 09:42 AM
That would mean Duke would lose players who played 143 minutes of the 200 total in the championship game.

Whoa, that's scary. I'd looked at the average for the season already (I think it was somewhere around 115 out of 200), but looking just at the championship game brings it out much stronger. Guess K decided to go with his experienced guys in the final. I wonder why he'd do that...

Even without Kyle next year, our potential ceiling is pretty high, maybe even higher than any other team. However (and this is a big 'however'), that potential comes along with so many question marks that it will be nearly impossible to evaluate until midway through the season, and even then it might not be clear. If all the pieces come together in the right way (like they did this year), it could be spectacular. I don't know about you guys, but I get the feeling that with Coach K at the helm, they just might.

superdave
04-09-2010, 09:51 AM
Whoa, that's scary. I'd looked at the average for the season already (I think it was somewhere around 115 out of 200), but looking just at the championship game brings it out much stronger. Guess K decided to go with his experienced guys in the final. I wonder why he'd do that...

Even without Kyle next year, our potential ceiling is pretty high, maybe even higher than any other team. However (and this is a big 'however'), that potential comes along with so many question marks that it will be nearly impossible to evaluate until midway through the season, and even then it might not be clear. If all the pieces come together in the right way (like they did this year), it could be spectacular. I don't know about you guys, but I get the feeling that with Coach K at the helm, they just might.

Our bench made huge defensive strides this year. The Plums will make for a more athletic and offensively capable frontcourt. We'll run a lot more and get into the passing lanes while pressuring the perimeter more. I'd expect we'd score more points, play more and up and down, but not have as good a D. It will be interesting to see how well we play halfcourt offense compared to this year. We will penetrate more and shoot fewer jumpers I'd guess.

phaedrus
04-09-2010, 10:00 AM
That would mean Duke would lose players who played 143 minutes of the 200 total in the championship game.

Man, how could we possibly avoid going 5-11 in the ACC if this happens?

Kedsy
04-09-2010, 10:29 AM
I'd expect we'd score more points, play more and up and down, but not have as good a D. It will be interesting to see how well we play halfcourt offense compared to this year. We will penetrate more and shoot fewer jumpers I'd guess.

With Nolan and Seth and Andre (and Kyrie, by reputation), we'll be shooting plenty of jumpers. Although we'll also have plenty of dribble-drive penetration. And we're going to run. We'll be one of the top-scoring teams in the country (I'd guess high 80s or low 90s per game).

Defense will be the question, but hopefully with our perimeter quickness and shotblockers inside, we'll make up for the size issue at SF (assuming Kyle leaves) and the lack of experience.

dukelifer
04-09-2010, 11:02 AM
With Nolan and Seth and Andre (and Kyrie, by reputation), we'll be shooting plenty of jumpers. Although we'll also have plenty of dribble-drive penetration. And we're going to run. We'll be one of the top-scoring teams in the country (I'd guess high 80s or low 90s per game).

Defense will be the question, but hopefully with our perimeter quickness and shotblockers inside, we'll make up for the size issue at SF (assuming Kyle leaves) and the lack of experience.

I agree. Defense will be more ball pressure than this year. Next year's team should get a lot more easy baskets in transition and as you say will shoot the ball from deep- a lot. Experience will matter though - particularly in the tourney. But with championships come some retooling. Just the nature of the game.

Indoor66
04-09-2010, 11:04 AM
IMO, if we lose 4 starters, we become problematic for 2010-11. I think our retained and incoming talent portend well for the coming year and add in K as the coach and I think we are potentially top 5 in the country. We still will have to prove it.

fgb
04-09-2010, 11:22 AM
We lose four starters, but I think more importantly we lose three seniors and (presumably) one junior. We will likely be more talented next year, but we were far from the most talented team in the nation this year.

ndkjr70
04-09-2010, 11:30 AM
Agree. With KS, consensus preseason #!. Without, consensus 6-7, which is too low, should be 3-5.

KI is realest of deals [we'll get to see him in All-Star games this and next Sat]; NS will be better[!!]; SC, rumor has it, will surprise the bball world. Next year is "alarmingly athletic," and that includes both MPs. DD is a pretty good shooter. Ha! RK will play.

No guarantees, but nothing but good news.

Are you afraid of typing full names out? God that post was annoying to read :D

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-09-2010, 11:43 AM
Are you afraid of typing full names out? God that post was annoying to read :D

Hey lets be nice.

ndkjr70
04-09-2010, 11:48 AM
Hey lets be nice.

I wasn't trying to be mean, I just thought it was a little quirky that he identified every player by their initials.

DukeGirl4ever
04-09-2010, 12:24 PM
I wasn't trying to be mean, I just thought it was a little quirky that he identified every player by their initials.

Do you text? :D (Not trying to sound mean).
It's the age of technology, my friend - we cheat at typing!

WordLife565
04-09-2010, 01:47 PM
According to draft analysts, Scheyer should be able to get into the second round. If not, since he is Jewish, he can get an Israeli passport and be one of the most coveted players ever for Maccabi Tel Aviv.

tecumseh
04-09-2010, 01:57 PM
One thing that I don't think has been mentioned yet is the potential for a lockout in 2011. The fact that there might not even BE a draft to declare for in 2011 may push him to go now.

Also, Bill Simmons seems to believe that the resolution of the lockout will have to be teams not paying the 10-12th guys on on team as well, and especially rookies. Thus, even if the lockout is resolved and they can agree on a new CBA, it's going to be much less friendly to players like Singler, who I think would have to be a role player in the NBA. He may want to cash out now, while he's on top of the college basketball universe.

I (selfishly) hope he stays, but this is something to consider.

I am not sure that it MIGHT not be a better financial move to stay. I know this is unorthodox thinking but a late first round pick is less than a million a year and the second round less than that and no guarantees in the second round. What IF he is the face of college basketball for 2010-2011 season? He is white, photogenic, and well spoken. Joahkim Noah signed some sweet endorsement deals not related to being a Chicago Bull right out of college. The ratings for the NCAA playoffs were way up. If ESPN gets the contract for March Madness Singler as the face of the game could benefit with a LOT of publicity. A lot more than CBS can or is able to do. Think of it senior, white, Dukie, defending national champs, captain of the team, returning Final Four MVP, Duke at top of rankings. I mean Tim Tebow just signed a deal with Nike supposedly worth $300,000 a year.

BD80
04-09-2010, 02:28 PM
... He is ... photogenic, ...

Not with that thing on his chin!

camion
04-09-2010, 02:31 PM
Not with that thing on his chin!

He needs to attend the Zoubs beard camp this summer.

CDu
04-09-2010, 02:52 PM
He is white, photogenic, and well spoken.

I think you and I have different opinions of photogenic...

airowe
04-09-2010, 03:32 PM
I think you and I have different opinions of photogenic...

Kyle could cash in bigtime with Coppertone.

sagegrouse
04-09-2010, 03:35 PM
Agree. With KS, consensus preseason #!. Without, consensus 6-7, which is too low, should be 3-5.

KI is realest of deals [we'll get to see him in All-Star games this and next Sat]; NS will be better[!!]; SC, rumor has it, will surprise the bball world. Next year is "alarmingly athletic," and that includes both MPs. DD is a pretty good shooter. Ha! RK will play.

No guarantees, but nothing but good news.

Hi! This is not a text message convention. Please use a reasonable approximation of full spelling. And I know texting and its relatives are taking over the world. But not the DBR message board.

sagegrouse
'Also, encourage everyone to use "Preview Post" when practical. Julio and Bos have inserted a random letter generator that converts words perfectly spelled when entered into gibberish when posted.'

Indoor66
04-09-2010, 03:43 PM
Do you text? :D (Not trying to sound mean).
It's the age of technology, my friend - we cheat at typing!

And thereby make the written word nearly unreadable. I agree, too much abbreviation. It makes things very hard to read or understand.

RoyalBlue08
04-09-2010, 03:46 PM
He is white, photogenic, and well spoken.

White-yes, Photogenic and well spoken-not the words I would use to describe the kid. (This is in no way a knock, I love the kid...tough as nails...not someone I would want as a spokesman though.)

BD80
04-09-2010, 03:55 PM
Kyle could cash in bigtime with Coppertone.

How about that "Twilight" movie series? They have white, translucent sparkly skin don't they? It is set in Oregon or somewhere up and over there.

DukeGirl4ever
04-09-2010, 04:09 PM
And thereby make the written word nearly unreadable. I agree, too much abbreviation. It makes things very hard to read or understand.

Oh, I agree with you! I am one of those people who has to type everything out when I text, but I am used to reading it, so I wasn't too confused.

My 49 year old mother, who just learned how to use a computer mouse... now SHE would have a major issue with it. :p

CameronBornAndBred
04-09-2010, 04:11 PM
Not with that thing on his chin!
http://pouletvous.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/scooby-doo-and-shaggy-copy.jpg

WordLife565
04-09-2010, 05:08 PM
Is it me or did anyone think Scheyer would end up being even better than he was.

I mean, this kid was labeled the "Jewish Jordan", one of the legends of Illinois basketball, and one of the best Illinois high school players of ALL TIME.

I thought he'd win a POTY for sure.

I do think he could be a good sixth-man on the right nba team, kind of like Kirk Hinrich is, but a better shooter.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-09-2010, 05:16 PM
Any word, on Lance?

Kedsy
04-09-2010, 05:32 PM
Is it me or did anyone think Scheyer would end up being even better than he was.

I mean, this kid was labeled the "Jewish Jordan", one of the legends of Illinois basketball, and one of the best Illinois high school players of ALL TIME.

I thought he'd win a POTY for sure.

I do think he could be a good sixth-man on the right nba team, kind of like Kirk Hinrich is, but a better shooter.

Obviously I haven't polled everybody, but I suspect it's just you.

First of all, I never heard anyone describe him as the "Jewish Jordan." Second, his consensus recruiting ranking (according to RSCI) was #28. To go from 28th best in his class to 2nd team All American (which is top 10 in the nation, regardless of class) is a great achievement and a major step up. The fact that he was in the discussion for national POTY early in the season was an amazing thing. To have expected it when he was coming out of high school is a little bit ridiculous.

WordLife565
04-09-2010, 06:02 PM
Obviously I haven't polled everybody, but I suspect it's just you.

First of all, I never heard anyone describe him as the "Jewish Jordan." Second, his consensus recruiting ranking (according to RSCI) was #28. To go from 28th best in his class to 2nd team All American (which is top 10 in the nation, regardless of class) is a great achievement and a major step up. The fact that he was in the discussion for national POTY early in the season was an amazing thing. To have expected it when he was coming out of high school is a little bit ridiculous.

true, I checked and Martynas Pocious was a higher rated recruit in 05 than scheyer was in 06. But they did call him the Jewish Jordan in HS.

BD80
04-09-2010, 06:09 PM
Is it me or did anyone think Scheyer would end up being even better than he was.

He was the starting point guard for the national champions! How good did you expect?


I mean, this kid was labeled the "Jewish Jordan", one of the legends of Illinois basketball, and one of the best Illinois high school players of ALL TIME.

Exaggeration, hyperbole or troll?


I thought he'd win a POTY for sure. ...

Troll.

calvindog
04-09-2010, 06:51 PM
Yes, I was disappointed in Scheyer. I expected at least two more National Championships than Harrison Barnes. Alas, it will only be one more.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-09-2010, 06:53 PM
Why did you add Harrison barnes in it? You could have just said I expected two championships and not just one :). I mean i'm not coming at you I just don't see the point of having him added in out of nowhere.

CameronBornAndBred
04-09-2010, 07:58 PM
He was the starting point guard for the national champions! How good did you expect?

And he wasn't even supposed to be a point guard!!! Jon Scheyer rocks.

tecumseh
04-10-2010, 12:18 AM
White-yes, Photogenic and well spoken-not the words I would use to describe the kid. (This is in no way a knock, I love the kid...tough as nails...not someone I would want as a spokesman though.)

Well it is all relative, you know, needs to shave off the funny beard, you know, and then you know. Seriously, not super well spoken but you know above average from the kids you know, who you know , I heard you know in the tourney you know. He is actually I think pretty photogenic and we can all agree he is white.

I do think as the fact of college basketball if his career washes out he can make a living selling BMWs or retirement packages etc etc. Really he needs to talk to Phil Knight at Nike before he makes any decisions.