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Spam Filter
04-05-2010, 10:50 PM
With his championship tonight, Coach K has now won titles 19 years apart.

Compare that to other great Coaches:

Wooden won his first in 64, his last in 75, that's 11 years apart.

Knight won his first in 76, his last in 87, 11 years apart.

Dean Smith won his first in 82, his last in 93, 11 years apart.

Adolph Rupp won his first in 48, his last in 58, 10 years apart.

You have to go back to Branch McCraken at Indiana as the only coach to win championships more than 11 year apart, he won in 40 and 53, 13 years apart.


This just goes to show how hard it is to stay on top of the college basketball world. Even the greatest coaches, can only manage to stay on top and maintain their peak for about 10 to 11 years

K has dominated the field for almost twice as long as all the other great coaches in history, and he is not done yet.

GoingFor#5
04-05-2010, 11:11 PM
I agree man...who thought after Elliot and Gerald left last season that we would be in this position? NOBODY, not even me I will admit I never saw this coming until sometime in February I considered it a possibility.

monkey
04-05-2010, 11:18 PM
All I can say is K (4) = DES (2) + Roy (2)

Duke79UNLV77
04-05-2010, 11:20 PM
All I can day is K (4) = DES (2) + Roy (2)

I think a nice "DOUBLE" chant pointing back and forth between K and Ole Roy next year would be appropriate.

4decadedukie
04-05-2010, 11:20 PM
I agree man...who thought after Elliot and Gerald left last season that we would be in this position? NOBODY, not even me I will admit I never saw this coming until sometime in February I considered it a possibility.

Indeed; K's passion, expertise, LEADERSHIP, VALUES, communications/teaching, management, and ethics are peerless.

DevilHorns
04-05-2010, 11:21 PM
I agree man...who thought after Elliot and Gerald left last season that we would be in this position? NOBODY, not even me I will admit I never saw this coming until sometime in February I considered it a possibility.

OZZIE4DUKE never gave up hope, even before Andre jumped on board. Props to him.

monkey
04-05-2010, 11:24 PM
I agree man...who thought after Elliot and Gerald left last season that we would be in this position? NOBODY, not even me I will admit I never saw this coming until sometime in February I considered it a possibility.

Definitely. Never saw this one coming

pamtar
04-05-2010, 11:26 PM
Because Kenny Powers said so!!!

Also, because he just made a top 10 team a national champion. HE is why were playing with scissors right now.

OZZIE4DUKE
04-05-2010, 11:27 PM
I agree man...who thought after Elliot and Gerald left last season that we would be in this position? NOBODY, not even me I will admit I never saw this coming until sometime in February I considered it a possibility.


OZZIE4DUKE never gave up hope, even before Andre jumped on board. Props to him.
Thanks for the props! And as I said in another thread, several others joined me back in October predicting we would be NATIONAL CHAMPIONS! :cool::D:D:D

bluepenguin
04-05-2010, 11:32 PM
They just interviewed him on ESPN. He was really complimentary about K and the Duke program. He also trashed the "one and done" players - saying it ruined college basketball.

bluepenguin
04-05-2010, 11:46 PM
All I can say is K (4) = DES (2) + Roy (2)

K(4) > DES(2) + Roy(2)

GoingFor#5
04-05-2010, 11:50 PM
Thanks for the props! And as I said in another thread, several others joined me back in October predicting we would be NATIONAL CHAMPIONS! :cool::D:D:D

Hey man...are we gonna win it next year? Please say yes!!!

dairedevil
04-05-2010, 11:55 PM
And in the post-game, when a reporter asked Z a question and referenced his "up and down career", K jumped all over the reporter - "Z's career hasn't been up and down, he's had a broken foot twice, so he's had an injury-plagued career." (or something like that) Then, he deflects with humor, along the lines of, "anyway, everybody knows Zoubek doesn't go up and down, he can't jump!"
Genius! and Hilarious! You know that those guys would play their hearts out for the guy, he'll have their back!

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-06-2010, 12:01 AM
I think this set him apart, he is the greatest of all time

SoCalDukeFan
04-06-2010, 12:54 AM
K is the best is what I will call the modern era - seeded tournament, 64 + teams, 1 and done or none and done.

Wooden was the best from the 60's to the mid 80's.

Rupp the best prior to Wooden.

Hard to compare across eras.

SoCal

papa whiskey
04-06-2010, 12:57 AM
Could not agree more. It's not only a different era, it's almost a different sport. It is not fair to K or Wooden to compare

the_grad_student
04-06-2010, 01:00 AM
I pledge to never question K's choice to play the starters full minutes during the year ever again. The big 3 didn't look tired for a minute this tournament and I give credit to the conditioning that he put them through to get into such outstanding condition. Among MANY reasons...coach K you deserve this one!!

LSanders
04-06-2010, 01:17 AM
Exactly ... Wooden basketball was basically like Women's basketball today.

When Geno Auriemma was asked when women's parity will equal men's, he said, "Never. Not as long as the rules stay the way they are." He gets to have Tina Charles, Maya Moore, Diana Taurasi, etc. for 4 years.

Imagine how many titles K would have if Brand, Maggette, Dunleavy, JWill, etc. had stayed for 4 years!!

That's what's so amazing about not only his accomplishments and consistency but his ability to change and adapt.

Some people thought/think Calipari ball of one 'n dones until the NCAA comes calling is the new rule. Guess again. K and Stevens both actually COACHED their players, made them better, and taught them how to play as a TEAM. Even several of the IC haters reluctantly admitted Roy's teams NEVER played defense like Duke or played with Duke's intensity.

The hardest time to do anything is the first. I'm certainly not saying K will run off a string of NCs now, but his Olympic experience in which the world's best basketball players bought into his system of relentless defense first fortified his resolve to teach this team the same principles.

Now, one gold medal and one NC later, he will (hopefully) be able to convince future teams that he can lead them to a FF/NC ... IF they are willing to listen, work, and accept their roles.

I think that's why he's the best ... Because he's the most adaptable. Taking nothing away from Wooden, Rupp, etc. ... But, I don't think Wooden would come even close to 10 in THIS age. Same with Rupp and his 4. Four-year players make a HUGE difference.

Vincetaylor
04-06-2010, 01:27 AM
I will never, ever question K again. Never. He is the best coach of any sport right now in my opinion.

Dr. Tina
04-06-2010, 03:04 AM
Coach K has been masterful this season! For me, this is hands down the best coaching season of his Duke tenure. I can't praise Coach K enough for it!!! I am so happy he's our coach!!!!

proelitedota
04-06-2010, 03:40 AM
Takes deep breath: 17-0 at home. 13-0 on neutral courts. Pre-season NIT champions. Sweeps UNC. Regular season champions. ACC tournament champions. NCAA tournament champions. 4th national title.
His most perfect season by far.

Rudy
04-06-2010, 09:32 AM
Both coaches in the final were great floor coaches. Well selected time-outs, adjustments to their teams' strategies to deal with what was happening on the floor. K's decision to brick the last free throw.

I got a kick out of the post-game presser when someone asked Brian if he was "freelancing" on the last foul shot. The look on his face said, "Are you kidding? Not with this coach."

Newton_14
04-06-2010, 09:50 AM
Last night on the CBS College Sports Channel Post-Game Show, Greg Anthony stated that he believes Coach K is the best college basketball coach in the history of the sport.

Greg Anthony, you are my new favorite analyst!

greybeard
04-06-2010, 10:03 AM
The remarkable thing about K is his ability to keep growing. Many of the heads I heard here in DC were saying that K had made a misstake the last few years by having been too taken with what he had learned from D'Antoni, they suggested that that cost Duke in the tournament and that was a fault of his. They said that K "learned from his misstakes" and went out and got some bangers, presumably the Plumlees, and that that was the difference.

Rubbish. K has improved his ability to innovate each year since his Olympic experience began. This year it reached a place that is mind numbing. First was experimenting to deploy Kyle as a classic 3, then changing to deploying Kyle as a uniquely effective 3 suited to Kyle's rhythms and his ability to change moment on catches going away from the basket and turn and knock it down with amazing speed and accuracy, then developing an interior curl game for Kyle to supplement what he was doing.

The movement patterns for the Big three have gone unmentioned and taken for granted but they were not only brilliant but constantly changing along with the screen patterns.

Me, I was predicting all year, even when the screen game was exploding and Zoubek emerged as an offensive force in that unconventional roll, that the failure to develop a penetrating pass-and-score-at-the-basket game for Zoubek and other Bigs was going to cost Duke a championship. I was right and wrong. See, just when it seemed that Duke was locked in, when Zoubek and the others were locked in to their unusual rolls as screeners/offensive rebounders, what does this coach do? He deploys a catch-and-score game for Zoubek and sticks it in the middle (no pun intended) of Duke's offensive arsenal. When, during the freakin tournament in the last 3 games. And, Zoubek and the passers performed unbelieveably, great passes, great catches, great finishes.

I do not count Championships to make my case. I think that K is an empowerer and that he develops strategies that suits his players and give them room to grow, and provides the support and makes the on-the-fly changes that make that growth accelerate.

Have never seen anything like it in my 50 plus years as a sports fan.

duke79
04-06-2010, 10:05 AM
Yes, very hard to compare different eras in college basketball, so not really fair to try to compare coaches from different eras. But, having said that, I think it is much more difficult to win consistently today, with star players (or players who think they are stars) often departing after one or two years. I also think that the talent is much more spread out among colleges than in the past, so more difficult for one college to dominate. Hard to build continuity in a program when your best players often bolt early. I think this makes Coach K's success over the past 23 years all the more impressive, when you consider that he has continually had to adapt his program to the changing players and times. I don't think that any coach will ever again dominate college b-ball like John Wooden and UCLA did. The question I often wonder about is whether Coach K would have been as successful, if he had been coaching at a different college? St. John's, for example, or DePaul, or some other college that does have the same advantages as Duke - great academics, beautiful campus, great basketball conference, etc. It has always seemed to me that he has a huge advantage in recruiting certain types of players to Duke, that he might not have at other colleges. But I'm certainly glad he IS OUR coach and hopefully will be until he retires.

DevilHorns
04-06-2010, 10:08 AM
I pledge to never question K's choice to play the starters full minutes during the year ever again. The big 3 didn't look tired for a minute this tournament and I give credit to the conditioning that he put them through to get into such outstanding condition. Among MANY reasons...coach K you deserve this one!!

Looking at Duke production, no bench points (though quality minutes), and a game entirely dominated by the starters in terms of minutes and production as expected. Crazy. Whatever K and staff has done to limit tiredness come tourney time they have figured out. Haha!

DUKE BLUE DEVILS
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Lance Thomas, F 35 3-5 0-0 0-0 1 4 0 2 0 3 4 6
Kyle Singler, F 40 7-13 3-6 2-2 1 9 2 1 2 2 1 19
Brian Zoubek, C 31 3-4 0-0 2-4 6 10 1 0 2 1 4 8
Jon Scheyer, G 37 5-12 1-5 4-5 1 6 5 1 2 2 3 15
Nolan Smith, G 40 5-15 1-5 2-5 1 3 4 0 0 3 0 13
BENCH MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Miles Plumlee, F 9 0-2 0-0 0-0 1 3 0 1 1 1 2 0
Andre Dawkins, G 5 0-1 0-1 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Mason Plumlee, F 3 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
TOTALS FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
23-52 5-17 10-16 11 36 12 5 7 12 14 61
44.2% 29.4% 62.5%

NSDukeFan
04-06-2010, 10:09 AM
Both coaches in the final were great floor coaches. Well selected time-outs, adjustments to their teams' strategies to deal with what was happening on the floor. K's decision to brick the last free throw.

I got a kick out of the post-game presser when someone asked Brian if he was "freelancing" on the last foul shot. The look on his face said, "Are you kidding? Not with this coach."
I really enjoyed that question and answer by Brian as well. It may have been his last seconds in a game for Duke, but he was going to do what the legendary coach on the sideline wanted, no question.

Troublemaker
04-06-2010, 10:33 AM
The 19 years apart thing is pretty cool and I thank you for pointing that out.

Something else I was thinking about recently was how rare it is to win a national championship with a roster that is seemingly without a top NBA talent on it. I mean, I'm not sure there's a top 15 NBA draft pick on this team. So I did some checking. In the last 40+ years (going back to Texas Western), only one coach has won a national championship without a top 15 NBA draft pick on his roster. Bobby Knight in 1987. So, uh, wow, there just might be something redeeming to this whole motion offense + man-to-man defense gimmick :-)

Just something to keep in mind, but I certainly hope that Jon, Nolan, Kyle, Mason, Z, etc all eventually become lottery picks if possible.

[Note: technically, there is a second coach who won a trophy without a top 15 NBA draft pick on his roster -- Tubby Smith in 1998 -- but that was his first year at UK after inheriting a roster from Pitino with tons of championship experience, having played in back-to-back finals the previous two seasons. Therefore, I'm going to say that the job Tubby did, while still impressive, isn't the same as building a team for 4 years like Coach Knight and Coach K did.]

Rudy
04-06-2010, 10:45 AM
Me, I was predicting all year, even when the screen game was exploding and Zoubek emerged as an offensive force in that unconventional roll, that the failure to develop a penetrating pass-and-score-at-the-basket game for Zoubek and other Bigs was going to cost Duke a championship. I was right and wrong. See, just when it seemed that Duke was locked in, when Zoubek and the others were locked in to their unusual rolls as screeners/offensive rebounders, what does this coach do? He deploys a catch-and-score game for Zoubek and sticks it in the middle (no pun intended) of Duke's offensive arsenal. When, during the freakin tournament in the last 3 games. And, Zoubek and the passers performed unbelieveably, great passes, great catches, great finishes.

I do not count Championships to make my case. I think that K is an empowerer and that he develops strategies that suits his players and give them room to grow, and provides the support and makes the on-the-fly changes that make that growth accelerate.


Great overall post but I selected the above. At the ACC tournament I had low section seats and noticed for the first time that Duke's guards rarely looked to big men who rolled to the basket after setting picks. Actually, Dawkins did, but had had not had a couple of years of not being able to rely on Thomas or Zoubek to finish at the rim. Then in the WVa game, in the first couple of possessions our starting guards twice drop the ball off to Z rolling to the basket for layups, which go in. That meant that the flashing post defender can't stay with the guard as long as he might want and has to get back to his man, thereby giving the dribbler just a little more room.

MChambers
04-06-2010, 11:41 AM
The remarkable thing about K is his ability to keep growing. Many of the heads I heard here in DC were saying that K had made a misstake the last few years by having been too taken with what he had learned from D'Antoni, they suggested that that cost Duke in the tournament and that was a fault of his. They said that K "learned from his misstakes" and went out and got some bangers, presumably the Plumlees, and that that was the difference.

Rubbish. K has improved his ability to innovate each year since his Olympic experience began. This year it reached a place that is mind numbing. First was experimenting to deploy Kyle as a classic 3, then changing to deploying Kyle as a uniquely effective 3 suited to Kyle's rhythms and his ability to change moment on catches going away from the basket and turn and knock it down with amazing speed and accuracy, then developing an interior curl game for Kyle to supplement what he was doing.

The movement patterns for the Big three have gone unmentioned and taken for granted but they were not only brilliant but constantly changing along with the screen patterns.

Me, I was predicting all year, even when the screen game was exploding and Zoubek emerged as an offensive force in that unconventional roll, that the failure to develop a penetrating pass-and-score-at-the-basket game for Zoubek and other Bigs was going to cost Duke a championship. I was right and wrong. See, just when it seemed that Duke was locked in, when Zoubek and the others were locked in to their unusual rolls as screeners/offensive rebounders, what does this coach do? He deploys a catch-and-score game for Zoubek and sticks it in the middle (no pun intended) of Duke's offensive arsenal. When, during the freakin tournament in the last 3 games. And, Zoubek and the passers performed unbelieveably, great passes, great catches, great finishes.

I do not count Championships to make my case. I think that K is an empowerer and that he develops strategies that suits his players and give them room to grow, and provides the support and makes the on-the-fly changes that make that growth accelerate.

Have never seen anything like it in my 50 plus years as a sports fan.

It will be fun to watch K switch gears and strategies next year, with a roster that will be very different.

K's flexibility as a coach is just amazing.

juise
04-06-2010, 12:28 PM
Here's an article about Coach K's achievements (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/10341/coach-k-cements-place-among-all-time-greats)... nothing we don't know already. At the bottom there's a video of Katz and Forde talking about the magnitude of K's success. I like that there's a joke at the end of the video about K's Olympic committment hurting Duke. :)

blueprofessor
04-06-2010, 02:11 PM
Link:http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/13162749/end-the-debate-now-krzyzewski-best-of-all-time/rss

Coach Wooden is still my choice as the best, but K is right there.

UCLA , until the NC in 1975 under Wooden, only had to win 2 games ( the tourney was small and regions did not have teams from other regions transported so that all regions would have somewhat similar depths of talent) to get to the Final Four.

Those UCLA teams were loaded and took care of business in the FFs (Wooden won 10 of his 12 FFs). Still, anything can happen if you have to play 4 games against talented opponents in a nationally seeded arrangement to get to the FF.
So, you have to give K huge props for 11 FFs and 8 NC games. With a little luck or one more possession , he could have won more NCs ( choose 1986,1994,1998,1999,2002, or 2004).
K's achievement of reaching 11 FFs outstrips Wooden's reaching 12, but Wooden was pure gold once he got to the FF.

Here are Coach Wooden's 2 opponents he beat to reach the FF in his first 9 NCs before 1975, his last (10th) NC:
1964:Seattle and San Francisco
1965: BYU and San Francisco
1967: Wyoming and Pacific
1968: New Mexico State and Santa Clara
1969: same as 1968
1970: Long Beach State and Utah State
1971: BYU and Long Beach State
1972: Weber State and Long Beach State
1973: Arizona State and San Francisco

Then,1975: Michigan, Montana, and Arizona State

On a few occasions USC (ranked 2nd in nation in 1971, for instance) was the second best team in the West but could not go to the tourney because of the limit of one team from the conference.

The two greatest college coaches: Wooden and K.

Best regards. Blueprofesor:)

bluepenguin
04-06-2010, 02:31 PM
At the end of one of the many post game interviews K gave, when being congratulated on the win he said "I feel so good to be a part of their moment."
I'm sure Roy said something along those lines last year, like "I feel so good to let them be a part of my moment."

Spam Filter
04-06-2010, 02:32 PM
I know it's hard to compare eras, but my point is that even within the confines of each coach's own era, the other great coaches are only able to stay on top of the heap for about 10 to 11 years.

That Coach K has been able to do so for twice as long as any of them, when the game is actually more competitive with more parity, is what makes him remarkable and surpasses all the other coaches in my eyes.

gumbomoop
04-06-2010, 02:56 PM
It will be fun to watch K switch gears and strategies next year, with a roster that will be very different.

K's flexibility as a coach is just amazing.

I want to tag onto MChambers''s point here, first acknowledging similar observations in this thread from greybeard - "ability to innovate" [post #24] - and LSanders - "ability to change and adapt" [post #18].

Consider 2 scenarios: (1) Somewhere between likely and plausible - KS leaves. (2) Unlikely but not unthinkable - both KS and NS leave.

In the worst-case scenario, #2, wow, K [and we!] loses 5 starters, 5 experienced leaders. Jeez, wow, gack! Yet..... even in this scenario, so help me, Duke will be and should be preseason top 7-10, based on KI, MP1's athleticism, MP2's expected break-out [I expect it, Bilas expects it, and you should as well], DD's shooting, and arrival of SC. But clearly in this scenario K's ability to switch gears, innovate, and adapt would be put to an enormous test. [Bigger even than Roy's this season?]

Because I am absolutely sold on the offensive explosiveness of KI, MP2, DD, and SC, I'm not much worried that K would devise an O that would work very well. But the D? How in the world does he totally reinvent the defensive intensity and fierceness of this year's starters, every one of whom "play every play." [And generally that phrase refers to D.] A totally different O is a test; the D problem presents what appears to be a near-impossible task. On O, there's an obvious leader: KI. But on D?

Now, in the more likely scenario #1, K retains in NS a great team leader, a mentor to KI, and a defensive floor general who, with KI's smarts and quickness, promises pressure out front.

Naturally I hope scenario #2 does not happen. But even the less disastrous scenario #1 would present a fascinating test for K's brilliance.

Finally, even in a yet-unmentioned, "best case" scenario - 2-S return - K still will have a less onerous, but nevertheless intriguing, set of reshaping issues.