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jimsumner
04-01-2010, 04:14 PM
"The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame announced today that Greivis Vasquez from the University of Maryland is the winner of the 2010 Bob Cousy Award presented by The Hartford Financial Services Group, Inc. This annual award is given to college basketballís top point guard and is named after Hall of Famer and former Boston Celtics guard Bob Cousy. An original list of 73 candidates made up of players from Division I, II and III schools was trimmed by a Hall of Fame appointed, nationally based committee to 20, down to 11, and a final six before voting on the winner of one of college basketballís most prestigious awards."

Duvall
04-01-2010, 04:19 PM
"The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame announced today that Greivis Vasquez from the University of Maryland is the winner of the 2010 Bob Cousy Award presented by The Hartford Financial Services Group, Inc. This annual award is given to college basketball’s top point guard and is named after Hall of Famer and former Boston Celtics guard Bob Cousy. An original list of 73 candidates made up of players from Division I, II and III schools was trimmed by a Hall of Fame appointed, nationally based committee to 20, down to 11, and a final six before voting on the winner of one of college basketball’s most prestigious awards."

As one of the top four or five players to handle the point this year in college basketball, he's certainly deserving.

I guess.

DukeDevilDeb
04-01-2010, 04:23 PM
As one of the top four or five players to handle the point this year in college basketball, he's certainly deserving.

I guess.


He didn't deserve ACC POY and he didn't deserve this. Scheyer did. Hands down! :mad:

weezie
04-01-2010, 04:24 PM
Yeah, phooey from this quarter, too.

CameronBornAndBred
04-01-2010, 04:39 PM
Congrats to Vasquez, no argument from me. The twerps would have been a disaster without him. If Duke lost Jon, we wouldn't have made it as deep as we have, but we would still have a tourney run to talk about. That's not a knock on Jon..it's just a fact he has the better supporting cast.

Duvall
04-01-2010, 04:42 PM
Congrats to Vasquez, no argument from me. The twerps would have been a disaster without him. If Duke lost Jon, we wouldn't have made it as deep as we have, but we would still have a tourney run to talk about. That's not a knock on Jon..it's just a fact he has the better supporting cast.

Scheyer? Evan Turner, John Wall and Sherron Collins were all more deserving than Vasquez.

Devil in the Blue Dress
04-01-2010, 04:43 PM
It's disappointing that Jon didn't get this one, but he may go home with something all the aforementioned wish they had: NC ring.

DevilHorns
04-01-2010, 04:48 PM
Very surprised Wall or Turner didnt get it.

Wall had a lot of turnovers and a stacked team, but Turner... he was a one man show (similar to Vasquez), and BETTER.... also a deeper tourney run.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-01-2010, 04:52 PM
It's disappointing that Jon didn't get this one, but he may go home with something all the aforementioned wish they had: NC ring.

This would be the best reward of all.

sagegrouse
04-01-2010, 04:58 PM
Good for Greivis. Congratulations!

sagegrouse

ReformedAggie
04-01-2010, 06:33 PM
grats to Vasquez. I'd take Jon over him any day tho :)

Son of Mojo
04-01-2010, 06:45 PM
Give him his due and let Jon go out there and earn a NC.

Bastogne
04-01-2010, 07:54 PM
So, hard to accept that my first post is in support of a Terrapin, but the guy deserves the kudos. I am not a huge fan of all the screaming and chest beating, but I have come to respect him as a terrific basketball player who just had a penchant for hitting big shots.

All the others, including Scheyer, would have been deserving winners as well, but give it to the Terp, he's pretty darn clutch.

Scheyer will make a much better Final Four MVP . . .

greybeard
04-01-2010, 07:55 PM
grats to Vasquez. I'd take Jon over him any day tho :)

So would Gary, if he was in a truthful mood. Vasquez played Gary out of almost as many close games as he won, including the Michigan St. game in the dance.

That said, terrific career by Vasquez, terrific season, and I'm not hatin on his selection. Congrats and thanks for the performances.

Jon, now go lead em to the big one. G-d's speed.

moonpie23
04-01-2010, 08:54 PM
congrats to greivis.....i hate it.....but i like him....

cptnflash
04-01-2010, 09:20 PM
Very surprised Wall or Turner didnt get it.

Wall had a lot of turnovers and a stacked team, but Turner... he was a one man show (similar to Vasquez), and BETTER.... also a deeper tourney run.

Agreed, how did Turner not win this? He's become the consensus favorite for national POY, and he's a point guard... but somehow he's not the best point guard in the country? Makes no sense to me.

Nothing against Greivis... just think Turner was more deserving.

greybeard
04-01-2010, 10:03 PM
Guess whom Doug Gottlieb chose before the Dance began? The nonathletic one. That's right, Jon Scheyer. Must be biased. ;)

gw67
04-02-2010, 07:29 AM
I didnít see any mention on the DBR front page or in the links they provided, but the Basketball Hall of Fame named Vasquez the winner of the Bob Cousy Award as the nationís best point guard. Vasquez played under more control during his senior year and, IMO, is deserving of the awards he has received this year. His best skill was his passing and, like Cousy, he made his teammates better.

As one of the few on this board who saw Cousy play, I recall not only his behind-the-back passes to Sharman and others but the rainbow 30-foot one handers he would shoot coming into the frontcourt when the defender played back as well as the running hook shots with either hand. It was a very different era.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040110aaa.html

I also note that Hayes of Maryland won the 3-point contest at the site of the Final Four. Hayes had a very solid senior year and was one of the most efficient offensive players in the ACC this past year.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040110aab.html

gw67

DukeUsul
04-02-2010, 11:04 AM
Evan Turner is the runaway winner of the AP NPOY award. He is in my opinion very deserving of the award.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5049701

CampbellBlueDevil
04-02-2010, 11:16 AM
They got that award right... if John Wall had gotten it I would have been a little upset.

greybeard
04-02-2010, 11:17 AM
I didn’t see any mention on the DBR front page or in the links they provided, but the Basketball Hall of Fame named Vasquez the winner of the Bob Cousy Award as the nation’s best point guard. Vasquez played under more control during his senior year and, IMO, is deserving of the awards he has received this year. His best skill was his passing and, like Cousy, he made his teammates better.

As one of the few on this board who saw Cousy play, I recall not only his behind-the-back passes to Sharman and others but the rainbow 30-foot one handers he would shoot coming into the frontcourt when the defender played back as well as the running hook shots with either hand. It was a very different era.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040110aaa.html

I also note that Hayes of Maryland won the 3-point contest at the site of the Final Four. Hayes had a very solid senior year and was one of the most efficient offensive players in the ACC this past year.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040110aab.html

gw67

Vasquez himself admitted that he screwed the pooch by getting carried away with himself at the end of the Michigan St. game and tried to win it by himself, which cost Maryland a decent chance.

The two shots he made to beat Duke, the first was a difficult but for him decent shot. The second was not. It was a one in twenty. Both went in and he was a hero. The second shot stunk.

Efficiency as measured over a season, yes, I'll give that to Greivas. Game winning shots, difficult ones, yes; terrifically efficient because the odds concerning game-winners become great at lower percentages if other guys on the team are not given the chance when they clearly have a better look, which somehow never happened when Greivas had the ball.

Which, again leads me to what I regard as a shortfall, game losing play in the final minutes of close games; he lead the league.

Gary was willing to live and die with Greivas and Greivas was ready to try. He was and remains a consumate showman, at least on this level.

In the world of entertainment, those figures compute to awards, showmanship sells, just as Cousy's behind-the-back passes, unnecesasary as they were, sold.

BTW, I too was old enough. Cousy and Sharmon were a great, great backcourt. The second best backcourt of their era, imo. The best backcourt of their era, imo, was on the same team, that would be KC and Sam.

KC was the first lockdown defender I ever saw, and plain wore people down. He was a Champion before he ever met Red, and was a marvel to watch. I can't image that opponents did not sigh with relief when the "starter" returned.

CDu
04-02-2010, 11:22 AM
No surprise there. Congrats to him. He had a fantastic season.

theAlaskanBear
04-02-2010, 11:24 AM
Yeah congrats to Turner, he had a hell of a year!

theAlaskanBear
04-02-2010, 11:28 AM
Congrats to Greivis Vasquez! In a down ACC year, I am glad there are some players walking away with national hardware. As much as I hate Maryland, I will pull for Vasquez on the next level! He's made his share of mistakes, but he is a very honest, open, and self-aware kid.

greybeard
04-02-2010, 11:31 AM
Congrats to Greivis Vasquez! In a down ACC year, I am glad there are some players walking away with national hardware. As much as I hate Maryland, I will pull for Vasquez on the next level! He's made his share of mistakes, but he is a very honest, open, and self-aware kid.

Hope he makes it too.

dukeblue4ever
04-02-2010, 11:41 AM
How could Luke Harangody possibly receive even one vote for this. He was a third-team all-american, and he might not have even deserved that.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-02-2010, 12:18 PM
How could Luke Harangody possibly receive even one vote for this. He was a third-team all-american, and he might not have even deserved that.

undercover fan

pfrduke
04-02-2010, 12:50 PM
Vasquez himself admitted that he screwed the pooch by getting carried away with himself at the end of the Michigan St. game and tried to win it by himself, which cost Maryland a decent chance.

If this is at all true, I'd like to see a link, because I don't buy it for a second. It's also factually inaccurate - Vasquez did nothing to "screw the pooch" at the end of the MSU game, and was the sole reason they were in it at all. With 5:06 to play, Maryland was down 12. Vasquez hit two free throws, then assisted a Hayes 3 on the next possession. The next two positions got a layup by Bowie and a missed jumper by Jordan Williams. MSU scored a couple times in that stretch, making it a 9 point game with 2:00 to play. The next possession, Vasquez got a three point play. Immediately thereafter, he got a steal and assist on Mosley's layup. The next Maryland possession was after a steal by Tucker, who missed a layup. MSU turned it over on the rebound, after which Vasquez immediately hit a 3. On Maryland's next possession, Bowie missed a shot, but Vasquez got a bucket after Tucker's offensive rebound. After Michigan State took the lead with :20 to play, Vasquez picked up a go-ahead layup with :06 left.

So in case you're scoring at home, in the last five minutes, he scored 12 points on 4-4 shooting plus 3-3 from the line, and assisted two other baskets. And the team as a whole scored 19 points in 10 possessions, which is extraordinarily good. Maybe he did try to win it himself, but he did an awfully good job of doing so, don't you think?

JohnGalt
04-02-2010, 01:11 PM
It's disappointing that Jon didn't get this one, but he may go home with something all the aforementioned wish they had: NC ring.

Actually Sherron does have a ring...I understand your point though.

CDu
04-02-2010, 02:39 PM
Vasquez himself admitted that he screwed the pooch by getting carried away with himself at the end of the Michigan St. game and tried to win it by himself, which cost Maryland a decent chance.

How did he screw the pooch at the end of the MSU game? In the last two minutes, Vasquez did the following:

made 2 pointer (fouled, and made the FT)
made 3 pointer
made 2 pointer (to give them the lead)
made 2 pointer (to give them the lead with little time left)

The kid missed one shot and had no turnovers in the last 10 minutes of the game, and on that one miss he got the rebound and was fouled. He was flawless down the stretch.

You could argue that he screwed the pooch early in the game, when he missed a bunch of shots. But he was the only reason they had a chance toward the end of that game. And his overall performance (9-20, 26 pts, 8 assists, 4 rebounds, 3 steals, 3 turnovers) was pretty awesome.

greybeard
04-02-2010, 04:18 PM
If this is at all true, I'd like to see a link, because I don't buy it for a second. It's also factually inaccurate - Vasquez did nothing to "screw the pooch" at the end of the MSU game, and was the sole reason they were in it at all. With 5:06 to play, Maryland was down 12. Vasquez hit two free throws, then assisted a Hayes 3 on the next possession. The next two positions got a layup by Bowie and a missed jumper by Jordan Williams. MSU scored a couple times in that stretch, making it a 9 point game with 2:00 to play. The next possession, Vasquez got a three point play. Immediately thereafter, he got a steal and assist on Mosley's layup. The next Maryland possession was after a steal by Tucker, who missed a layup. MSU turned it over on the rebound, after which Vasquez immediately hit a 3. On Maryland's next possession, Bowie missed a shot, but Vasquez got a bucket after Tucker's offensive rebound. After Michigan State took the lead with :20 to play, Vasquez picked up a go-ahead layup with :06 left.

So in case you're scoring at home, in the last five minutes, he scored 12 points on 4-4 shooting plus 3-3 from the line, and assisted two other baskets. And the team as a whole scored 19 points in 10 possessions, which is extraordinarily good. Maybe he did try to win it himself, but he did an awfully good job of doing so, don't you think?

He said it; I don't do links. Wouldn't know how to find it. You do. Look and you will. I did not watch the game. I know that he took I believe a number of extraordianry iimprovident shots during the game, admittedly after the fact because he wanted tio win it for his team.

Making ego-driven poor choices in big games because your coach "trusts" you is a betrayal of your teammates. I don't care how often you might let them do their thing at other times. You covet the moment to the detriment of making the play that reason dictates you are a loose cannon, not to be celebrated with an award such as this, in my view. MJ passed the damn thing to Kerr and Paxton to win two different championships. Gave each the last shot. One of them had been off the entire game (I think it was Paxton). Greivas never does that.

Greivas is celebrated for his performance against Duke that lead to the victory. The winning shot was a terrible one that happened to go in. Stars should be made of better stuff. That's just my view. I understand yours. That's what makes ball games.

Finally, while Greivas is an incredibly winsome personality and an extraordinary showman, I do not think that there is a single coach who had a team that went deep into the tournament who would chose him for their team. Not one. Gary did not go deep. He lived by the sword and died by it.

I forget, who won the three point contest last night. Oh, Greivas's backcourt mate the last four years. Tell me that the guy wasn't open. I dare you. That was why Greivas apologized. Look, you'll find it.

pfrduke
04-02-2010, 04:21 PM
He said it; I don't do links. Wouldn't know how to find it. You do. Look and you will. I did not watch the game. I know that he took I believe two extraordianry iimprovident shots to end the game that ended Maryland's chances. He did the same thing against Duke and made them. You live with poor choices in crunch time and you lose with it. MJ passed the damn thing to Kerr and Paxton to win two championships. Greivas never does that. I forget, who won the three point contest. Oh, his teammate the last four years. Tell me that the guy wasn't open. I dare you.

This is simply wrong. It can't possibly be right. He didn't miss any shots in the last 5 minutes of the game. To the contrary, he was, as I (and CDu) pointed out, 4-4 from the field, 3-3 from the line, and hit the shot the put Maryland ahead with 6 seconds to play. How in the world could he have ended Maryland's chances at the end of the Michigan State game?

CDu
04-02-2010, 04:31 PM
He said it; I don't do links. Wouldn't know how to find it. You do. Look and you will. I did not watch the game. I know that he took I believe two extraordianry iimprovident shots to end the game that ended Maryland's chances. He did the same thing against Duke and made them. You win with poor choices in crunch time sometimes when they work and you lose with them when they don't.

Making poor choices at crunch time because your coach "trusts" you is a betrayal of your teammates. I don't care how often you might let them do their thing at other times. You covet the moment to the detriment of making the play that reason dictates you are a loose cannon, not to be celebrated with an award such as this, in my view. MJ passed the damn thing to Kerr and Paxton to win two different championships. Gave each the last shot. One of them had been off the entire game (I think it was Paxton). Greivas never does that.

I forget, who won the three point contest last night. Oh, Greivas's backcourt mate the last four years. Tell me that the guy wasn't open. I dare you. That was why Greivas apologized. Look, you'll find it.

First of all, his name is Greivis, not Greivas.

Second of all, if you didn't watch the game, how do you "know that he took I believe two extraordianry iimprovident shots to end the game that ended Maryland's chances?"

Third of all, you might want to check your facts. He didn't take any shots down the stretch that ended up hurting his team. He made EVERY shot he took in the final 5 minutes, including his last two which gave Maryland the lead in the final minute. And the only shot he missed in the final 11 minutes he rebounded and drew a foul.

He also committed no turnovers in the final 5 minutes.

Here's the play-by-play for your reference:
http://espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=300800120

Vasquez most certainly did not do anything to lose them that game in crunch time. In fact, the only time Maryland didn't score in the last 11 minutes of the game were when someone other than Vasquez shot.

Maryland lost this game long before the final minutes. If anything, Vasquez was phenomenal in almost bailing this team out from a terrible first 30 minutes.

greybeard
04-02-2010, 04:38 PM
So in case you're scoring at home, in the last five minutes, he scored 12 points on 4-4 shooting plus 3-3 from the line, and assisted two other baskets. And the team as a whole scored 19 points in 10 possessions, which is extraordinarily good. Maybe he did try to win it himself, but he did an awfully good job of doing so, don't you think?[/QUOTE]

No. I don't think that a guy who occupies the ball to the exclusion of his teammates does a pretty good job of anything except feeding his ego. You say that Greivas took and missed a number of improvident shots earlier in the game but scored the ball down the stretch well. What I heard him say in a replay of an after the game comment was that he had gotten carried away in trying to win it by himself and blew it. He apologized to his teammates for it.

Making ego-driven poor choices in big games because your coach "trusts" you is a betrayal of your teammates. I don't care how often you might let them do their thing at other times. You covet the moment to the detriment of making the play that reason dictates you are a loose cannon, not to be celebrated with an award such as this, in my view. MJ passed the damn thing to Kerr and Paxton to win two different championships. Gave each the last shot. One of them had been off the entire game (I think it was Paxton). Greivas never does that.

Greivas is celebrated for his performance against Duke that lead to the victory. The winning shot was a terrible one that happened to go in. Stars should be made of better stuff. That's just my view. I understand yours. That's what makes ball games.

Finally, while Greivas is an incredibly winsome personality and an extraordinary showman, I do not think that there is a single coach who had a team that went deep into the tournament who would chose him for their team. Not one. Gary did not go deep. He lived by the sword and died by it.

Oh, one other thing, I forget for a second, who won the three point contest last night. Oh, Greivas's backcourt mate the last four years. Tell me that the guy wasn't open down the stretch. I dare you.

CDu
04-02-2010, 04:45 PM
He said it; I don't do links. Wouldn't know how to find it. You do. Look and you will. I did not watch the game. I know that he took I believe a number of extraordianry iimprovident shots during the game. Admitted after the game that he wanted to lift his team to victory and got carried away, that he made poor choices and apologized to his teammates for it.

Again, if you didn't watch the game, how are you in any position to know whether or not he took any ill-advised shots during the game?


Oh, one other thing, I forget for a second, who won the three point contest last night. Oh, Greivas's backcourt mate the last four years. Tell me that the guy wasn't open down the stretch. I dare you.

Maryland scored 19 points in 10 possessions down the stretch. That's phenomenal efficiency. Their efficiency was even better when Vasquez shot. Why do you think that he should have passed up those shots to give Hayes the shot at the end? Do you think Hayes would hit at higher than a 67% rate from 3? Because that's the percentage Hayes would have had to hit to outdo Vasquez down the stretch.

I think perhaps you're letting your personal biases against Vasquez cloud your judgment, and lead you to conclusions without looking at the facts.

pfrduke
04-02-2010, 04:58 PM
Oh, one other thing, I forget for a second, who won the three point contest last night. Oh, Greivas's backcourt mate the last four years. Tell me that the guy wasn't open down the stretch. I dare you.

He wasn't open down the stretch. Of course, since, as you have repeatedly said, you didn't watch the game, you have absolutely know way to know.

Also, you have no idea what my point is. My point is a very simple one: Vasquez did not lose the MSU game for Maryland by taking improvident shots down the stretch. That is a point that cannot rationally be refuted.

greybeard
04-02-2010, 05:56 PM
I apologize. I heard Greivis apologize for having taken bad shots because his ego got the best of him and assumed that he was referring to shots down the stretch. When someone pointed out that that wasn't the case, I tried to correct my post but the board would not accept the correction, probably because a response had already been filed.

My opinion about Greivis is not strongly held and stems from my dislike of ego driven play, especially by the guy to whom a coach gives the responsibility of controlling the ball. Gary obviously has a different perspective.

Greivis has a number of talents including, when he is of a mind to, to give it up with touch and vision to a teammate who is in a position to create. When he is playing like that, and takes his shots in the flow of the game, I enjoy his game very much.

Scoring 5 baskets in a row does not impress me, nor do I think that it produces winning teams. I certainly would not enjoy being on the floor when Greivas decides to go off on one of his toots.

Others see the game and enjoy it from different perspectives. Many in DC thought Gilbert was all that. He was as spectacular a one-on-one player as I've ever seen. I thought he was poison for the Wizards and gave the team's inside players no chance, none, to compete and enjoy the game.

Greivis has talents with respect to playing a team game that Gilbert lacks.

I do not think that Greivis's solo game comes anywhere near great. I think that his desire to play it is a serious and out-of-control flaw. For those who think that he is a JWill, I think that he is not even in the same league. In addition, I might remind you that JWill found that that aspect of his game did not play so well on the next level.

Well, that's about it.

My apologies to all of you for speaking without facts to make a point that was both incorrect and superfluous to my perspective of Greivis's value as a player. The former is poor form in the extreme on this forum and the latter, not to put too fine a line on it, was just plain stupid.

CDu
04-02-2010, 06:20 PM
My apologies to all of you for speaking without facts to make a point that was both incorrect and superfluous to my perspective of Greivis's value as a player. The former is poor form in the extreme on this forum and the latter, not to put too fine a line on it, was just plain stupid.

No need to apologize.

For what it's worth, I completely agree that Vasquez is a fantastic player when he's distributing and taking his shots within the flow of the game. I agree that he has at times shot the team out of some games. His skill, guts, and creativity in carrying a very mediocre Maryland team (though I also agree that Hayes is very underrated and a capable shooter/score in his own right) has been both a blessing and a curse, because while he's capable of carrying the team to improbable victories (see the wins over UNC in previous years), he's also capable of shooting them out of games (see some of the Duke games). We can disagree on the overall team value of a player like Vasquez (I don't think there is an unequivocally right answer), but there's no question that he costs them games at times.

And I agree that the "ego game" is not superior to the team game. It's always easier for five guys to win than one guy (unless there is a specific matchup that can be easily exploited to the benefit of the team).

It's just that crunch time of the MSU game was just unfortunately not a good example of this. He was the good Vasquez - creating for others while also hitting the big shots when the team needed him to do so. The problem was that Maryland dug such a big hole with bad defense earlier in the game (48 first half points allowed) that it took a terrific late charge to catch up.

greybeard
04-02-2010, 06:46 PM
No need to apologize.

For what it's worth, I completely agree that Vasquez is a fantastic player when he's distributing and taking his shots within the flow of the game. I agree that he has at times shot the team out of some games. His skill, guts, and creativity in carrying a very mediocre Maryland team (though I also agree that Hayes is very underrated and a capable shooter/score in his own right) has been both a blessing and a curse, because while he's capable of carrying the team to improbable victories (see the wins over UNC in previous years), he's also capable of shooting them out of games (see some of the Duke games). We can disagree on the overall team value of a player like Vasquez (I don't think there is an unequivocally right answer), but there's no question that he costs them games at times.

And I agree that the "ego game" is not superior to the team game. It's always easier for five guys to win than one guy (unless there is a specific matchup that can be easily exploited to the benefit of the team).

It's just that crunch time of the MSU game was just unfortunately not a good example of this. He was the good Vasquez - creating for others while also hitting the big shots when the team needed him to do so. The problem was that Maryland dug such a big hole with bad defense earlier in the game (48 first half points allowed) that it took a terrific late charge to catch up.

Done! Sorry I missed it.

pfrduke
04-02-2010, 07:15 PM
I apologize. I heard Greivis apologize for having taken bad shots because his ego got the best of him and assumed that he was referring to shots down the stretch. When someone pointed out that that wasn't the case, I tried to correct my post but the board would not accept the correction, probably because a response had already been filed.

Yeah, no need to apologize. For what it's worth, I shared many of your views on Vasquez for the first three years of his career. He was an extremely inefficient player, who dominated the ball too much and took too many bad shots. To his credit, I thought he improved greatly in that regard in his senior year, especially in ACC play.

Whether he still dominated the ball too much is an open question. Many of the guys on the team were not creators - I'd say other than Mosley (and occasionally posts by Williams), they didn't have another guy who could successfully get his own shot on a consistent basis. You mentioned Hayes in your earlier post - he's a great example. I think part of the reason he scored so efficiently is because Vasquez created a lot of wide open looks for him. Whether the team would have been better or worse had Vasquez deferred to his teammates is unclear - yes, he probably passed up better opportunities that a teammate had to take a more difficult shot himself on more than one occasion. But his ability to create and to score on even difficult shots made guys pay more attention to him, and opened up looks for his teammates even more - if he started to constantly defer, defenses would adjust and those looks would disappear.

ScreechTDX1847
04-02-2010, 07:26 PM
Evan Turner. Deserves just about every award this year and I would rather have in my team 10X more than Vesquez. Additionally, he shows a little more on court class than Vasquez.

greybeard
04-02-2010, 07:46 PM
Yeah, no need to apologize. For what it's worth, I shared many of your views on Vasquez for the first three years of his career. He was an extremely inefficient player, who dominated the ball too much and took too many bad shots. To his credit, I thought he improved greatly in that regard in his senior year, especially in ACC play.

Whether he still dominated the ball too much is an open question. Many of the guys on the team were not creators - I'd say other than Mosley (and occasionally posts by Williams), they didn't have another guy who could successfully get his own shot on a consistent basis. You mentioned Hayes in your earlier post - he's a great example. I think part of the reason he scored so efficiently is because Vasquez created a lot of wide open looks for him. Whether the team would have been better or worse had Vasquez deferred to his teammates is unclear - yes, he probably passed up better opportunities that a teammate had to take a more difficult shot himself on more than one occasion. But his ability to create and to score on even difficult shots made guys pay more attention to him, and opened up looks for his teammates even more - if he started to constantly defer, defenses would adjust and those looks would disappear.

Thanks, but I did, apologze that is. This board is better than that.

Real cogent post.

I would add that I thought that Maryland had some real terrific athletes who, if they couldn't create as such, could and did creat terrific receptions within their range and would get to the rim, or at least inside the defender, if their shots were challenged.

When he was seeing people and letting them have it as they were breaking free, as well as scoring the ball himself, is when Vasquez was truly impressive. Perhaps when you have a player like that, you have to expect him to go off sometimes.

Hey, maybe I wanted this for Jon a little too much. There are worse faults I suppose. :o

Buckeye Devil
04-03-2010, 07:23 AM
As one who follows Ohio State, I have no issue with Evan Turner not getting the Cousy award (but that is not to say that I think Vasquez should have got it). Turner played PG out of necessity because there was simply no one else to run the point (for various and sundry reasons starting with the loss of Mike Conley, Jr to the NBA after the 2007 season).

At PG, Turner committed too many turnovers. Yes, he played non-stop and handled the ball a lot, but there were games when he had double digit turnovers. Regardless, that is unacceptable at the #1 spot. For that reason alone, I have no real issue with him not getting the Cousy award. Scheyer was much more deserving, IMHO.

Now, if Turner does not get virtually every national player of the year award as the best player, I will have major problems with that. Hands down he was the most versatile and best player in college this year. Turner will be a solid pro at the #2 spot in the NBA.