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greybeard
03-30-2010, 10:34 AM
We've all seen the pictures of Singler's hand, and we all know that K and Jon and Nolan made no mention of the injury when asked about Singler's shooting "slump." What I want to know is what planet were the guys' asking the question on. They were at the game right. One of them had to get an up close look, no? And, what about the guys who announced the game. They didn't see the swelling, the discoloration?

How is it possible that even through today no one in the media has picked up on this. My bet is is that this is about to change. Yeap, I wised up Mr. Tony, who has been referencing me on his local radio show as an expert on all things Duke (thanks to DBR) and other stuff (we'll get to that in a moment) since the tourney began. By the way, you all will be happy to hear that Mr. Tony took it up a notch, last night gave me a shout out on PTI. Thanks boyz.

Now to the second point. Most all the heads were saying going in that West Virginia's chances went down the drain with their point guard's injury. I wrote to Tony to "remember When Harvard Beat Yale and not count WVa out." As I did for him, a brief explanation, that thankfully does not apply at your school, at least with regard to basketball.

One of the unfortunate things about Sport, organized sport from college on down, is adults run the show. For some reason, these people think it okay for them to decide to NOT play guys (I'm including gals here too) who have proven their ability to contribute. They think that their judgments about who their very best players are supercedes the right, that's right, "right" of kids who have earned it be given the chance to play, to contribute in actual games. They only think, in self-proving fashion, that their judgments in that regard are the best way to win, and that even if it is, that whatever advantage is gained is somehow worth the cost that others must pay. To me, this is a profoundly unfortunate and indefensible reality; extremely hurtful to young people who get involved in competative sport from the age 8 on up.

For those of you who have not seen it, When Harvard Beat Yale is a wonderful documentary about the closing game in the 1969 Ivy league season. Harvard and Yale went into their final game undefeated. Yale had Grant's Dad and a terrific quarterback who had never lost a game in high school and college and were considered in a different league. The game was to be a blowout and for one half it was. Yale was crushing Harvard.

Then Harvard's professorial-type coach (that is how his players described him in the documentary) made a startling move. He took out his star quarterback and gave the team's reigns to a guy who had not played a meaningful down the entire season. Anyway, like some cheap movie, the guy brings Harvard back, throwing two touchdown passes and two two-point conversions in the final 1:45.

Okay, Grey, but what does this have to do with the price of tomatoes. There is a point lurking here somewhere, yes? Patience boyz, we're getting there. After thoroughly enjoying this docu-drama it hit me. How does this happen? How does it happen that at a school like Harvard, with its laid back approach to sport, that a guy of this talent does not get ONE meaningful down an entire season?

So, what I asked Tony and now ask the rest of you, how did the talking heads, all these experts, assume that there was no one lurking on Huggin's roster who could step in to do the job. How could they possibly make such an assumption? I'd like to be able to say that I predicted that the guy who won the game for WVa would. I didn't. What I did tell Tony was that the premise of the collective wisdom of the sports media was so out of touch with the lessons of When Harvard Beat Yale as to be sad. Sad because the people who sit on the benches are presumed by those who should know better to be incapable of contributing on a high level when anyone familiar with sport should know that that just ain't true.

For those of you with children who love to play and invest it, remember When Harvard Beat Yale and do not let it happen. I know that convention is to cede all power to the coach, to honor the ethos of the good of the team over individual interests, but that convention does a tremendous injustice to the games that we play.

We can do better. The Heads, on the other hand, I fear that there is no hope.

Go Duke, a team that deserves it.

jaytoc
03-30-2010, 10:54 AM
Grey, I don't know what's scarier - your consistently offbeat, but thought provoking theories, or that you are the source of "all things Duke" inside the Beltway, and, hence, the wider world.:D

Anyway, thanks for the walk down Memory Lane. One slight correction - it was 1968, not '69.

Zeb
03-30-2010, 10:54 AM
Can anyone post a link to these photos of Kyle's hand?

91_92_01_10_15
03-30-2010, 10:57 AM
Can anyone post a link to these photos of Kyle's hand?

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1039&d=1269902283

greybeard
03-30-2010, 10:58 AM
Grey, I don't know what's scarier - your consistently offbeat, but thought provoking theories, or that you are the source of "all things Duke" inside the Beltway, and, hence, the wider world.:D

Anyway, thanks for the walk down Memory Lane. One slight correction - it was 1968, not '69.

Just channeling what I learn here. I graduated college in '68 and knew it was the year after. Calanders, rats. :eek:

Actually, I have asked DBR to take the thread down. Nothing much worthwhile here, not during this week. Hopefully, they will.

Vincetaylor
03-30-2010, 11:08 AM
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1039&d=1269902283

Has anyone in the media mentioned his hand/wrist at all? That was the first thing that came to my mind when he was on his way to 0-10 shooting. Kyle is simply too good of a player and has been on too much of a hot streak lately to all of a sudden miss every shot he takes. I think it was the first time in his career that he hasn't made a shot. Let's hope that the doctors over at Duke can pull a little magic this week.

left_hook_lacey
03-30-2010, 11:13 AM
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1039&d=1269902283

I'm not a Dr., but could that discoloration be a circulation issue? It looks like he's got a pretty tight tape job on that wrist, and if it's been taped for 2+ hours....well? Let's face it, Kyle is not sporting a golden tan, so any discoloration will probably look worse than it actually is. :confused:

roywhite
03-30-2010, 11:13 AM
Wow...on the picture of Kyle's hand.

JohnGalt
03-30-2010, 11:16 AM
I'm not a Dr., but could that discoloration be a circulation issue? It looks like he's got a pretty tight tape job on that wrist, and if it's been taped for 2+ hours....well? Let's face it, Kyle is not sporting a golden tan, so any discoloration will probably look worse than it actually is. :confused:

I was thinking the same thing. I wonder how much of the hand is discoloration from the tape rather than bruising from the fall. My less than expert opinion leads me to believe its not quite as bad as that picture indicates.

coldriver10
03-30-2010, 11:23 AM
I was thinking the same thing. I wonder how much of the hand is discoloration from the tape rather than bruising from the fall. My less than expert opinion leads me to believe its not quite as bad as that picture indicates.
I posted this in the WVU pre-game thread, but to me his hand looks like someone who's just had his hand on ice/dunked in icewater. It seems far too uniform in color to be a typical brusie (but of course anything is possible). I wondered about the tape, too, but to affect circulation to that extent, I imagine it would be too uncomfortable to play with.

GoingFor#5
03-30-2010, 11:26 AM
Obviously I hope Kyle is as close to 100% as possible for Saturday's game, but if he's not, I prefer the injury isn't discussed. I think psychologically when you hear the media talking about your injury it gives you an excuse and can impact your game subconsciously. Kyle always goes all out so I am not that worried, but the last thing we need is to feel like we are the hobbled team...we need to expect to win and go out and do it.

Neals384
03-30-2010, 12:49 PM
Look closely at the picture. The purplish color on his right hand also shows up on the fingertips of his left hand. And, there's a slight purplish color to his shirt on the left shoulder.

I'm thinking the appearance of his hand may be simply due to some weird lighting effect - light bouncing off the orange rim, maybe?

Not saying he isn't injured, but I'd sure like to see another picture of his hand. Preferably one taken next week on a stepladder in Indy.

DrChainsaw
03-30-2010, 03:03 PM
Look closely at the picture. The purplish color on his right hand also shows up on the fingertips of his left hand. And, there's a slight purplish color to his shirt on the left shoulder.

I'm thinking the appearance of his hand may be simply due to some weird lighting effect - light bouncing off the orange rim, maybe?

Not saying he isn't injured, but I'd sure like to see another picture of his hand. Preferably one taken next week on a stepladder in Indy.

I don't think so - I recall seeing that same discoloration of the hand, when he first got up off the floor after falling on it. I am heartened by the fact that he used the hand to cut down the net & agree withthe above speculators that the tape job may have affected the circulation some how.

El_Diablo
03-30-2010, 03:12 PM
Look closely at the picture. The purplish color on his right hand also shows up on the fingertips of his left hand. And, there's a slight purplish color to his shirt on the left shoulder.

I'm thinking the appearance of his hand may be simply due to some weird lighting effect - light bouncing off the orange rim, maybe?

Not saying he isn't injured, but I'd sure like to see another picture of his hand. Preferably one taken next week on a stepladder in Indy.

But does the lighting also make the hand swell up? Zoom in on the picture if you have to...the swelling is significant, especially on the fifth metacarpal.

Indoor66
03-30-2010, 03:18 PM
But does the lighting also make the hand swell up? Zoom in on the picture if you have to...the swelling is significant, especially on the fifth metacarpal.

And the phalanges.

El_Diablo
03-30-2010, 03:22 PM
And the phalanges.

Although it doesn't explain that weird growth on the mentum...

moonpie23
03-30-2010, 03:27 PM
i'm pretty confident is saying that if it was broken, he would not play.....

noyac
03-30-2010, 03:37 PM
Are you guys talking about the fall in the Purdue game? I just watched the highlight of a play in the Purdue game where he fell hard on it and you could see him grimmace from pain.

El_Diablo
03-30-2010, 03:38 PM
Are you guys talking about the fall in the Purdue game? I just watched the highlight of a play in the Purdue game where he fell hard on it and you could see him grimmace from pain.

Yes.

DukieInKansas
03-30-2010, 03:39 PM
Although it doesn't explain that weird growth on the mentum...

He should have that looked checked. It might take some special instruments to have it removed. :D

OldPhiKap
03-30-2010, 03:50 PM
'mo mentum
'mo mentum
'mo mentum.


Clearly the key to the game.

DevilDawg
03-30-2010, 03:59 PM
I was thinking the same thing. I wonder how much of the hand is discoloration from the tape rather than bruising from the fall. My less than expert opinion leads me to believe its not quite as bad as that picture indicates.

Making a diagnosis from a picture...Bill Frist, is that you?

MChambers
03-30-2010, 04:27 PM
I think it belongs in the "Is Singler Human" thread. Anyone who can play that well with a purple hand and a growth on his mentum is not human.

Seriously, I'm betting by Saturday Kyle has learned to shoot again, probably not as well as he did the last few weeks, but decently. The kid is unbelievably tough and smart.

I also thought Baylor was focusing on Kyle in their zone, and laying off Jon a little. Didn't work out too well.

greybeard
03-30-2010, 05:15 PM
On closer examination, it might be Gatoraide. Rats, a shooting slump. :)

Actually, before I saw the picture, I was thinking that maybe the zone bothered him. My thinking was that Kyle found his game after a shakey early season start when the coaches stopped deploying him to start at the 3-line but instead had him playing inside out, running people off screens which allowed him to establish rhythm, playing like the 4 he has been his entire college and one would think high school career. In this game, it was back almost esclusively to setting up outside the three-line, which might have prevented rhythm.

However, if you remember, Kyle missed an easy putback, which is oh so not like him. I think it's the hand, and hope that a week provides enough of a rest.

I am reasonably certain that Duke will see a zone, maybe similar to the one Kentucky saw. That length can take shooters away from their normal shooting spots. Kentucky was left with lots of open 3s and missed almost all of them. Maybe it was because they were not from where Kentucky's shooters normally set up. Here's hoping that, if that is the case, K and his staff know it and they have their shooters practicing from other spots that are likely to be available. One would hope that they are taking a ton of them. However, how is Kyle to rest the hand/wrist if . . . .

The guy is a warrier and I hope that he has a chance to finish out the season playing as he has been for at least the last month and a half--which would be like one of the top 10 players in the nation.

MChambers
03-30-2010, 05:26 PM
I am reasonably certain that Duke will see a zone, maybe similar to the one Kentucky saw. That length can take shooters away from their normal shooting spots. Kentucky was left with lots of open 3s and missed almost all of them. Maybe it was because they were not from where Kentucky's shooters normally set up. Here's hoping that, if that is the case, K and his staff know it and they have their shooters practicing from other spots that are likely to be available. One would hope that they are taking a ton of them.

WV plays both man to man and the 1-3-1, from what I've read, but Huggins simply inherited the 1-3-1 from Belein. I'm thinking Huggins will try the zone early on, but I really think this team can handle it, and WV will end up in the man to man. Don't know why, but I just can't remember many big games where the zone has bothered Duke. I'm sure there have been a few, but I'm always happy to see a zone against us.

greybeard
03-30-2010, 05:42 PM
WV plays both man to man and the 1-3-1, from what I've read, but Huggins simply inherited the 1-3-1 from Belein. I'm thinking Huggins will try the zone early on, but I really think this team can handle it, and WV will end up in the man to man. Don't know why, but I just can't remember many big games where the zone has bothered Duke. I'm sure there have been a few, but I'm always happy to see a zone against us.

Both teams have wear-you-out man-to-man offenses. W Va has guys running around other players and curling. Duke has Z running around setting one WALL after another and Singler is especially dangerous as a scorer against man-to-man. W Va might want to take that away from Duke, the ability to wear out W Va in that way. On the other hand, they are so long across the board that maybe they are unconcerned and will just switch all screens.

On the other hand, their length (they had their tallest player playing the point against Kentucky, and the next two tallest on the wings), quicness, and focus in the zone seemed to cause Kentucky's shooters all kinds of trouble even though they got many wide open looks. Maybe if it is not the look you are looking for "wide open" doesn't mean too much. Their lone guard was matching up on Cousins. Since Duke doesn't look to throw it down low to score the ball to begin with, I'm thinking that they will at least start out with this zone, and that the zone will pose challenges. I also think that Duke will be very well prepared.

This should be quite a game.