Steve Lavin

[SoCalDukeFan]

There seem to be comments on several threads about Lavin. Here is my take:

First of all Lavin is one of the luckiest guys in sports. He got the UCLA coaching job on a fluke and after proving that he was not ready got a commentators job. He usually offers no insights. He does know a lot about basketball history so his references are all to stuff that is about 25 years old.

Lavin got the UCLA job as an interim when Harrick got canned over an expense account issue. Lavin had been deep in the coaching hierarchy but Lorenzo Romar had just taken another job so he was made the interim. The talented team made it deep into the tournament so Lavin was retained. He did recruit well. His teams did make deep tournament runs but generally underperformed in the regular season. Some things he did were really questionable.

Some on this board complain that Coach K does not give players enough rest. Lavin would decide before the game started when certain players were coming out for a rest. So if Lavin was pulling you at the 8 minute mark in the first half, and you had just hit 3 3's, you got pulled, hot hand or not. Another beauty was Sean Farnarm. Sean was forced to start when more talented players were hurt or suspended, and UCLA won. Lavin decided Seqn was "lucky." So when the team was at full strength he would start him and then pull him after two minutes or so. Imagine a real coach like K or Izzo trying something like that.

I think he offers no real insight. His comment about Duke having an easy bracket is just stupid. What would he have said if Northern Iowa was the 3 seed in the South and Baylor the 8 seed in the Midwest? Villanova was probably the weakest 2 seed but they presented an interesting potential match up with Duke because of last year. Kentucky did get a tough draw.
Kansas and Syracuse have no one to blame but themselves. Purdue and Baylor were very good teams.

SoCal

[theAlaskanBear]

I dont think we should dignify Lavin with a thread of his own.

[ReformedAggie]

I think Lavin just talks to hear his head roar.
His comments are so stupid that even *I*, a mere
woman, know more about the players and the games
and I don't have a research staff. Example: how Thomas'
performance was a surprise. Really Lavin, Really?? Have
you watched a Duke game this year? That being said, I
will compliment his tailor, the guy has really nice suits.

[DukieBoy]

This WOULD mean he wouldn't be on ESPN hating on Duke anymore.

[roywhite]

I'm pretty sure there is bad blood between Coach K and Lavin. Lavin has let it spill over to his coverage of Duke.

Some may confirm the details, but I believe there was controversy about charges of recruiting tactics, and that Lavin wanted to cancel the Duke--UCLA series.

Recall the 1998 game in Cameron where Duke beat UCLA 120-84. Coach K very seldom runs up the score unless there is a message to be sent.

[moonpie23]

dood....what about that 5 o'clock shadow? sheesh...


it's up an running at 4pm

[diablesseblu]

I have never understood how/why ESPN hired/keeps him. He lends nothing of value to their broadcasts.

That said, I have found it hard to take him at all seriously since this debacle.

Originally heard about it from a friend who works at UCLA..,,they were all appalled. I guarantee the Montage could have made this work.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/bruin/2007/07/coach-lav-leave.html

Who/what kind of person does this?

[jyu181]

I'm pretty sure there is bad blood between Coach K and Lavin. Lavin has let it spill over to his coverage of Duke.

Some may confirm the details, but I believe there was controversy about charges of recruiting tactics, and that Lavin wanted to cancel the Duke--UCLA series.

Recall the 1998 game in Cameron where Duke beat UCLA 120-84. Coach K very seldom runs up the score unless there is a message to be sent.

Last night on ESPN News, Lavin was pushing that the "South region was the easiest region in 25 years," but he also spoke of Coach K very highly. It seemed to be that he hated Duke but has respect for Coach K.

[Kdogg]

I'm pretty sure there is bad blood between Coach K and Lavin. Lavin has let it spill over to his coverage of Duke.

Some may confirm the details, but I believe there was controversy about charges of recruiting tactics, and that Lavin wanted to cancel the Duke--UCLA series.

Recall the 1998 game in Cameron where Duke beat UCLA 120-84. Coach K very seldom runs up the score unless there is a message to be sent.

One of the BEST games I have ever seen in Cameron. Most points UCLA has ever allowed.

Lavin didn't like the fact that K was recruiting west coast players (guys like Barron Davis, Mike Dunleavy, Casey Jacobsen, etc...) He didn't like the competition and canceled the series like a spoiled kid.

[duke4life32182]

Not a good broadcaster at all. I have never liked him and dude lay off the gel.

[cbfx3]

He is in talks with St Johns... I hope they hire him and we get a chance to PUMMEL him some more

[muzikfrk75]

So if he goes to St John's he'll probably cancel the series, eh?

[budwom]

Not a good broadcaster at all. I have never liked him and dude lay off the gel.

Believe it or not, he actually said on the air yesterday that he had gotten off the gel and was now on the cream. I have been assuming it was Crisco all along, and I'm sticking with that theory.

[UrinalCake]

I've heard Lavin speak highly of K - after Lavin was fired from UCLA, Coach called him and gave him a lot of encouragement. I think he's giving his honest opinions with his comments regarding the tournament and not letting his personal feelings affect things one way or another. That said, I of course think that he is wrong.

[whereinthehellami]

I have not heard Lavin finish one sentence on the TV. And yes my mute button has lost its identity. I never liked Lavin at UCLA either. He came across like a used car salesman to me. Still does.

[Andre Buckner Fan]

On ESPN news he talked for about a minute about Duke conspiracy theories. He said things that would be harsh even on IC. I lost all respect for him, who says that on national TV?

Impartial? Hardly.

[OldPhiKap]

Has he already said how WV is going to pound us? Because his prediction of a Baylor rout did not quite work as he predicted.


I have several words to describe Lavin, but the filter would no doubt scrub them out.

[Devilsfan]

Lavin was playing "good cop" last night when speaking of Coach K. It seems like he just can't get a coaching gig while he's ripping Coach K, so why not praise him? It can't hurt and who knows, somebody might just believe he's sincere and not jealous.

[diablesseblu]

Lavin was playing "good cop" last night when speaking of Coach K. It seems like he just can't get a coaching gig while he's ripping Coach K, so why not praise him? It can't hurt and who knows, somebody might just believe he's sincere and not jealous.


You nailed it with this post!

[4decadedukie]

I have several words to describe Lavin, but the filter would no doubt scrub them out.

I would speculate that some of your words would be identical to mine . . . he is worthless: as an analyst, as a coach, as a broadcaster/journalist, and that is only the "tip of the iceberg."

[hurleyfor3]

Here's an older Lavin thread, although the context in this one is a bit different, and more current:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6495

There are commentators I like more, and there are certainly commentators I like a lot less.

[House G]

Lavin also stated on ESPN radio last night that Tom Izzo and the Michigan State program are the gold standard for college basketball programs. He went on to add that Izzo has the zen thing working--reminded me of the zen master, Phil Jackson.

[NashvilleDevil]

Lavin also stated on ESPN radio last night that Tom Izzo and the Michigan State program are the gold standard for college basketball programs. He went on to add that Izzo has the zen thing working--reminded me of the zen master, Phil Jackson.

I really admire Izzo and what he has done at Michigan St. but I wonder if Izzo did not win the title in 2000 what all the "experts" would be saying if he was now in his 6th Final Four without a title?

[GoingFor#5]

IMO, you could replace all these so-called analysts with random knowledgeable fans and there would be no drop-off in insight or accuracy of picks. The only thing missing would be the interesting little personal ancedotes and grudges.

[OldPhiKap]

IMO, you could replace all these so-called analysts with random knowledgeable fans and there would be no drop-off in insight or accuracy of picks. The only thing missing would be the interesting little personal ancedotes and grudges.

Just give me Bobby Knight and a play-by-play guy.

[hurleyfor3]

I really admire Izzo and what he has done at Michigan St. but I wonder if Izzo did not win the title in 2000 what all the "experts" would be saying if he was now in his 6th Final Four without a title?

If, if, if. Hurley doesn't hit his 3 against unlv (or Hunt hits his), Laettner misses The Shot and we never recover from Boozer going down, what would they say about us?

Let's take nothing away from Izzo. Michigan State's Final Four run is the second best in the post-Ucla era. Color me impressed.

[Highlander]

If, if, if. Hurley doesn't hit his 3 against unlv (or Hunt hits his), Laettner misses The Shot and we never recover from Boozer going down, what would they say about us?

Let's take nothing away from Izzo. Michigan State's Final Four run is the second best in the post-Ucla era. Color me impressed.

If Antonio Lang's arms were just a few centimeters longer...

[NashvilleDevil]

If, if, if. Hurley doesn't hit his 3 against unlv (or Hunt hits his), Laettner misses The Shot and we never recover from Boozer going down, what would they say about us?

Let's take nothing away from Izzo. Michigan State's Final Four run is the second best in the post-Ucla era. Color me impressed.

I love Izzo and how his teams play. And I know I had a lot of ifs in there. I am not taking away from what Izzo has accomplished at Michigan St.

[dukemsu]

My mom called me today and conversation worked its way to the Duke game, as I've watched dozens of games with her and my dad over the years. She then asked me, in all seriousness, whether or not the game was fixed, because she heard controversy about it on ESPN.

She's a casual sports fan, at best. But it's unbelievable that this narrative is now part of the casual sports fan's awareness.

At least Vitale called Lavin's nonsense. Dick can't exactly be called objective on this matter, but at least someone said something. It's pretty sad that the achievement of this team gets marred by this sort of thing.

Guess I have to take Mr. Zoubek's stance: don't listen, don't care. LGD.

dukemsu

[dcarp23]

Last night on ESPN News, Lavin was pushing that the "South region was the easiest region in 25 years," . . .

In 1991, Carolina played a 9, 10, 12 and 16 seed to make the Final Four. This is not to pick on Carolina or disparage that particular team, but I'd say UNC's road to the Final Four that year was a little easier than Duke's.

[MChambers]

If Antonio Lang's arms were just a few centimeters longer...

If he hadn't filed his nails that day . . .

[brevity]

In 1991, Carolina played a 9, 10, 12 and 16 seed to make the Final Four. This is not to pick on Carolina or disparage that particular team, but I'd say UNC's road to the Final Four that year was a little easier than Duke's.

Similarly, I recall UNC's East Region in 1993 was one of the most beneficial of the modern era. The 2 seed was Cincinnati (then of the Great Midwest conference) and the 3 seed was Massachusetts (of the A-10). Meanwhile, the Midwest Region that year was topped by Indiana, Kansas, and Duke.

But I wouldn't say that UNC's path that year was easy, as they played the highest seeds available (16, 8, 4, 2), and that 4 seed was Arkansas, which would win the title the following year.

[OldPhiKap]

UNC had a very easy path this year. They didn't have to play anyone.

[mgtr]

UNC had a very easy path this year. They didn't have to play anyone.

POTD. This is hilarious!

[darthur]

First of all, who cares about Steve Lavin? But anyway...


Lavin would decide before the game started when certain players were coming out for a rest. So if Lavin was pulling you at the 8 minute mark in the first half, and you had just hit 3 3's, you got pulled, hot hand or not.

This is a pretty common practice. On the Phoenix Suns for exampe, Steve Nash *always* gets pulled at certain times to rest, and that's lasted through 3 different coaches. The Lakers always bring out their second line at certain times etc. Having this consistency means the players don't have to wonder as much about when they'll be coming out. My examples are from the NBA of course, but I don't see what's so ridiculous about trying a successful NBA coaching practice in college.


Another beauty was Sean Farnarm. Sean was forced to start when more talented players were hurt or suspended, and UCLA won. Lavin decided Seqn was "lucky." So when the team was at full strength he would start him and then pull him after two minutes or so. Imagine a real coach like K or Izzo trying something like that.

It's not identical but I remember Duke starting a walk-on (Davidson? I forget who it was now) against Chris Paul's Wake Forest to send a message to the team, and then pulling him after two minutes. K didn't do it repeatedly, but otherwise it doesn't seem so different to me than what Lavin did. Having a different starting lineup can set a different tone for the game to follow.


His comment about Duke having an easy bracket is just stupid.

I don't know what Lavin said in particular, but lots of people have been saying we had an easy bracket. And we did. "Easy" is relative of course, but there's no way I would have traded our bracket for anyone else's.

[Hectors Grease Fire]

Originally Posted by jyu181
Last night on ESPN News, Lavin was pushing that the "South region was the easiest region in 25 years," . . .

Wasn't even the easiest path this year with Michigan State's 12,4,9,6.

[Highlander]

Originally Posted by jyu181
Last night on ESPN News, Lavin was pushing that the "South region was the easiest region in 25 years," . . .

Wasn't even the easiest path this year with Michigan State's 12,4,9,6.

I'm sure if you asked him he would say it was the easiest "on paper." There are multiple teams which have made the FF playing an easier seed route due to upsets, two of which have been named here.

Of course, that begs the question of what does easiest "on paper" really mean? Kansas's bracket was supposed to be tough because of Ohio State, GTown, and Maryland, yet none of those teams made it past the Sweet 16. I think it means that Duke didn't have any 'big names' in their bracket. Everyone knows that Georgetown is tougher than Baylor. Oh wait :)

Had WV been the #2 seed in our bracket, no one would be talking about how 'easy' the South was. Given that we play WVU anyway this weekend, I think it's a moot point whether we play them in the regional final or FF. A convincing win over WVU would silence a lot of critics (for awhile anyway).

[SoCalDukeFan]

First of all, who cares about Steve Lavin? But anyway...



This is a pretty common practice. On the Phoenix Suns for exampe, Steve Nash *always* gets pulled at certain times to rest, and that's lasted through 3 different coaches. The Lakers always bring out their second line at certain times etc. Having this consistency means the players don't have to wonder as much about when they'll be coming out. My examples are from the NBA of course, but I don't see what's so ridiculous about trying a successful NBA coaching practice in college.



It's not identical but I remember Duke starting a walk-on (Davidson? I forget who it was now) against Chris Paul's Wake Forest to send a message to the team, and then pulling him after two minutes. K didn't do it repeatedly, but otherwise it doesn't seem so different to me than what Lavin did. Having a different starting lineup can set a different tone for the game to follow.



I don't know what Lavin said in particular, but lots of people have been saying we had an easy bracket. And we did. "Easy" is relative of course, but there's no way I would have traded our bracket for anyone else's.

Following a reasonable substitution pattern is one thing, cooling off a hot shooter is another. Sending a message is one thing, starting a player because he is "lucky" is another. Maybe you start a walk-on because of his effort in practice, which sends a message that to the other players that they need to work harder in practice to start. How does a a scholarship player show the coach that he is "luckier?" Do you think Lavin analyzed brackets for the last 25 years? I actually thought Syracuse had as easy a bracket as we did. More importantly the brackets change after each round. Do you think Lavin thought the the Midwest was tough because of Northern Iowa?

SoCal

[devildeac]

I'm sure if you asked him he would say it was the easiest "on paper." There are multiple teams which have made the FF playing an easier seed route due to upsets, two of which have been named here.

Of course, that begs the question of what does easiest "on paper" really mean? Kansas's bracket was supposed to be tough because of Ohio State, GTown, and Maryland, yet none of those teams made it past the Sweet 16. I think it means that Duke didn't have any 'big names' in their bracket. Everyone knows that Georgetown is tougher than Baylor. Oh wait :)

Had WV been the #2 seed in our bracket, no one would be talking about how 'easy' the South was. Given that we play WVU anyway this weekend, I think it's a moot point whether we play them in the regional final or FF. A convincing win over WVU would silence a lot of critics (for awhile anyway).

Doubt it would silence many/any of the wankers. If we lose, we were over-rated and if we win, we got to beat them without the Truck or a Truck running on only 1 wheel:rolleyes:. Even if DUMC provided him with his "spare tire.":>)

[Highlander]

Doubt it would silence many/any of the wankers. If we lose, we were over-rated and if we win, we got to beat them without the Truck or a Truck running on only 1 wheel:rolleyes:. Even if DUMC provided him with his "spare tire.":>)

True, but they were good enough to beat Kentucky without Truck, and everyone thought Kentucky was clearly bettern than Duke this year. If we beat the same team Kentucky lost to, I can shoot that one down in a heartbeat. The most vociferous wankers will never give us credit, I agree, but I'd settle for ESPN announcers not taking potshots at us for our 'easy' bracket or 'controversial' foul call.

[-bdbd]

First of all, who cares about Steve Lavin? But anyway...

I don't know what Lavin said in particular, but lots of people have been saying we had an easy bracket. And we did. "Easy" is relative of course, but there's no way I would have traded our bracket for anyone else's.


Originally Posted by jyu181
Last night on ESPN News, Lavin was pushing that the "South region was the easiest region in 25 years," . . .

Wasn't even the easiest path this year with Michigan State's 12,4,9,6.

First off "easiest bracket" is absolutely irrelevant. What matters is actual easiest path, if anything. After all, a team doesn't play all 15/16 opponents in their region -- just four. As it has worked out Duke's path has been relatively challenging - 16, 9, 4, 3 (in front of their "home" crowd). Not sure if any of the other FF teams can match that (though WV playing against KY (1) in 4th round wasn't to be envied. As for Lavin's comment re South region, well I'd argue that it is highly debatable which region was easiest THIS year. And it is patently absurd to argue this was the easiest region in the last 25 years. That's more the sort of thing said by someone with a particular agenda than realistically sharing an informed commentary. (But Lavin would never do that...) ;)

What bugs me about the silly "haters" and conspiracy theorists, beyond the usual sheer agenda-driven ridiculousness of their rants, is that they NEVER acknowledge when the calls or pairings have gone badly AGAINST Duke. In this case, over the last 5 years Duke has been the "beneficiary" of some really BAD matchups and regional pairings. Think LSU in JJ's last year as an example. Or in the Baylor game, the goal-tending non-call just before Acy charged into Z or all of the bump-the-Duke-shooter no-calls. Not complaining about the refs, but just the one-sided memories of these stupid people.

[sagegrouse]

It's not identical but I remember Duke starting a walk-on (Davidson? I forget who it was now) against Chris Paul's Wake Forest to send a message to the team, and then pulling him after two minutes. K didn't do it repeatedly, but otherwise it doesn't seem so different to me than what Lavin did. Having a different starting lineup can set a different tone for the game to follow.





You are referring to the heroic Patrick Davidson

Following a loss at Virginia Tech, Coach said he felt "numb" on the ride back. The effort and the passion weren't there for the team. JD suggested they go with the players who had been most energetic in practice. K agreed, and Patrick ended up starting, and he played chest-up defense on Chris Paul for the first three minutes or so. Both Prosser and Paul believed that it was K's ploy to pick a fight with Chris Paul.

sagegrouse

[OldPhiKap]

You are referring to the heroic Patrick Davidson

Following a loss at Virginia Tech, Coach said he felt "numb" on the ride back. The effort and the passion weren't there for the team. JD suggested they go with the players who had been most energetic in practice. K agreed, and Patrick ended up starting, and he played chest-up defense on Chris Paul for the first three minutes or so. Both Prosser and Paul believed that it was K's ploy to pick a fight with Chris Paul.

sagegrouse

Somewhere, Da'jules Hodge would smile if he could do so without wincing..

[NashvilleDevil]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5041205

On to St. John's. Will he end the series because Duke recruits players in New Jersey?

[moonpie23]

be careful what you wish for...

[juise]

Somehow, Lavin was able to hire Gene Kaady as an assistant (http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/news/story?id=5686861) (well, "executive assistant"). It seems like Gene was looking for a part time gig. I think it's an impressive addition for St. Johns. Maybe not huge for recruiting, but I think he's a bit X's and O's upgrade in the short-term.

[NashvilleDevil]

Since he thought he was the smartest guy on set the last couple of years on ESPN, I found it funny that he lost his debut at St. John's. (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=303202608)

[oldnavy]

Since he thought he was the smartest guy on set the last couple of years on ESPN, I found it funny that he lost his debut at St. John's. (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=303202608)
Looks like he isn't going to get an "easy path" to the NCAAT. Noticed he got "T'd" up also, maybe he forgot that he can't say stupid things without consequences on the sideline like he could on air...