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tastytaste
03-28-2010, 08:26 PM
Something to get us fired up...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/23/sports/ncaabasketball/23duke.html

'No joke. And for the rest of the college basketball off-season, no-names like Thoroughman have made once-mighty Duke a punch line."

sagegrouse
03-28-2010, 08:27 PM
Whooey!!

Duke hung in there against Baylor and made the plays in the last four minutes. Not sure how it happened -- but lots of offensive rebounds and timely shooting by Nolan and Jon.

Bob Huggins and his West Virginia team are next. Game time is reported by two sources as being 8:47 ET.

Most of us dislike Huiggins, but he is a friend of K's so there must be some good to him -- which we may be willing to consider --after next weekend.

A few questions, which are not really necessary to start the conversation:

1. How big a rebound can we expect from Kyle? He made some key plays against Baylor, but making shots didn't figure into them.

2. Can Zoubek match up against the Mountaineers? The "bigs " for Huggins consist of five players between 6-7 and 6-9 and 195-225 pounds: long and lean, I would say. Duke has a considerable size advantage. Can the Devils put it to good use?

3. Joe Mazzulla came off the bench after Bryant was injured and did a great job against Kentucky, scoring 17 points. Can Duke advantage here?

sagegrouse

cptnflash
03-28-2010, 08:36 PM
Regarding question #1, has Kyle hit a shot since coming down hard on his wrist in the Purdue game? He downplayed it in the Purdue postgame press conference but we have to at least consider the possibility that it's a reinjury of some consequence.

And on #3, apparently Truck Bryant is in Durham right now (presumably at a Duke facility) getting fitted in some kind of special orthodic shoe that will allow him to play against us. What are our doctors doing helping out the opposition?!?! (Just kidding.)

dukelifer
03-28-2010, 08:39 PM
Whooey!!

Duke hung in there against Baylor and made the plays in the last four minutes. Not sure how it happened -- but lots of offensive rebounds and timely shooting by Nolan and Jon.

Bob Huggins and his West Virginia team are next. Game time is reported by two sources as being 8:47 ET.

Most of us dislike Huiggins, but he is a friend of K's so there must be some good to him -- which we may be willing to consider --after next weekend.

A few questions, which are not really necessary to start the conversation:

1. How big a rebound can we expect from Kyle? He made some key plays against Baylor, but making shots didn't figure into them.

2. Can Zoubek match up against the Mountaineers? The "bigs " for Huggins consist of five players between 6-7 and 6-9 and 195-225 pounds: long and lean, I would say. Duke has a considerable size advantage. Can the Devils put it to good use?

3. Joe Mazzulla came off the bench after Bryant was injured and did a great job against Kentucky, scoring 17 points. Can Duke advantage here?

sagegrouse


I am not sure what was bothering Kyle today. Many of us suspect a slight wrist twinge- maybe some time will heal it. We will need his shot from here on out. Jon got out of his slump this round.

It is interesting the four teams that preach D first and known for D are all in the Final Four. Should be a lot of ugly ball played this coming weekend. Duke's free throw shooting could be the difference.

dukelifer
03-28-2010, 08:40 PM
Regarding question #1, has Kyle hit a shot since coming down hard on his wrist in the Purdue game? He downplayed it in the Purdue postgame press conference but we have to at least consider the possibility that it's a reinjury of some consequence.

And on #3, apparently Truck Bryant is in Durham right now (presumably at a Duke facility) getting fitted in some kind of special orthodic shoe that will allow him to play against us. What are our doctors doing helping out the opposition?!?! (Just kidding.)

Maybe they put a little recording device in there as well. :)

cptnflash
03-28-2010, 08:46 PM
Maybe they put a little recording device in there as well. :)

I like it... James Bond style!

CDu
03-28-2010, 08:48 PM
1. I'm sure he'll bounce back. He's been big for us all year. He'll shake it off.

2. I wouldn't call WVU's bigs "long and lean." Smith is 6'7", 245. Jones is 6'8", 250. Thoroughman is 6'7", 240. Kilicli is 6'9", 265. Only Ebanks would qualify as long and lean (6'9", 215). But they do present a problem for Zoubek in that none of them are post guys. Smith and Jones are very good outside shooters, and Ebanks is a baseline slasher. Thoroughman and Kilicli are spot subs only.

3. Mazzoula is a gutsy player, but he's not a great player. Let's hope we don't let him dominate us like he did a few years ago. Of course, Bryant might very well play against us.

WVU is an interesting team. The only thing they do well is rebound offensively. They're just decent at everything, and overall they end up pretty good on both ends of the floor. That they just keep winning is really impressive. They have a bunch of interchangeable parts at the 3-5 spots, although they REALLY rely on Butler and Jones offensively. They'll spread the floor, run off a lot of screens, and crash the boards.

On the other end, they'll scrap and scrap. They don't force turnovers, they don't dominate the glass. But aside from not getting steals, they don't do anything particularly poorly. And they play really hard. It'll be a tough game for us.

sagegrouse
03-28-2010, 09:10 PM
1. 3. Mazzoula is a gutsy player, but he's not a great player. Let's hope we don't let him dominate us like he did a few years ago. Of course, Bryant might very well play against us.



Huggins said that Bryant was "in Durham," getting fitted for a device that would might let him play. I assume "in Durham" means "at Duke Hospital." What are those guys thinking? Couldn't the docs declare a moratorium on fixing up basketball players until the NCAA's are over? :);):rolleyes:

sagegrouse

CDu
03-28-2010, 09:12 PM
Huggins said that Bryant was "in Durham," getting fitted for a device that would might let him play. I assume "in Durham" means "at Duke Hospital." What are those guys thinking? Couldn't the docs declare a moratorium on fixing up basketball players until the NCAA's are over? :);):rolleyes:

sagegrouse

Yeah, no foresight! :)

Though I'm guessing that a not-at-full-strength Bryant may not be a huge asset for them, especially against our defense. We'll see.

dukeimac
03-28-2010, 09:25 PM
UWV's success came because Kentucky didn't play defense. This team is not known for shooting three's but they did in that game. But I think it is because, as several coaches noted in the post game comments, Kentucky played poor defense because they weren't making there shots (like 4-31 for 3's).

As these same coaches said, players need to focus on defense despite how they are playing on the offensive end. And Duke does this well, see Jon and Kyle when they are in slumps.

Duke must play excellent defense again and UWV will exit this game, they don't respond well to suffocating defenses.

Put pressure on Muzzoula with Smith. If we get a lead they will have to play to Duke and Zo. If they get an early lead you may see a lot of the Plumlee's. But this is what Coach K is good at, making other teams respond to Duke and not Duke responding to others. Kyle will wear a brace again and he'll be back to himself.

Duke has a good chance on winning this one but they must come out focused; no one can take anyone for granted. Not even when their 11th guy is on the floor.

Dukie@Wake
03-28-2010, 09:33 PM
WVU and Baylor remind me a lot of one another. I wouldn't expect WV to be so hot from 3 land again. Once again Duke must own the boards and limit the transition opportunities of their opponent. If it's a half-court game it's ours to take. WV can win it just as easily as Duke can.

This is some of the best "game management" I've ever seen with K. This team just knows how to control the game even when it seems out of control. That's a true extension of the coach. GT in the ACC final, Purdue, and now Baylor have all been a testament to how they stay strong in the midst of an opponent's flurry. I think this will serve them well against WVU. This team is so mentally tough!

bluedevil2012
03-28-2010, 09:33 PM
After tonights game, Pomeroy has us back up to number 1 in offensive efficiency. Also, he has us as a 5 point favorite against WV.

SCMatt33
03-28-2010, 09:43 PM
I really think that WV is somewhere inbetween Purdue and Baylor. Baylor is like the ultimate big, athletic team who is much better at offense, where Purdue is the tough, scrappy, defensive team that struggles to score. WVU is much more athletic than Purdue, but much smaller than Baylor. Like Baylor, they are a great offensive rebounding team, but a very mediocre defensive rebounding team. I expect another game like today where there are lots of offensive rebounds on both sides. The good news is that there is no one left in the tournament who can fully match Duke's size. If we make them beat us inside, which I fully expect us to be able to do (unlike UK), we should have a very good chance to win.

dukestheheat
03-28-2010, 09:49 PM
Expect Kyle to come back big after the great struggle tonight! We will bring our offense and this should be another great, really physical game (West Virginia rebounds well and they are physical). We will need to put Nolan on Mazulla, I believe, from the get-go; we'll need to slow him down a bit.

Word on Mazulla is this: he's a lefty with little game experience; we must force him RIGHT. In time, this pressure to his off-hand should work in our favor.

dth.

CDu
03-28-2010, 09:53 PM
I really think that WV is somewhere inbetween Purdue and Baylor. Baylor is like the ultimate big, athletic team who is much better at offense, where Purdue is the tough, scrappy, defensive team that struggles to score. WVU is much more athletic than Purdue, but much smaller than Baylor. Like Baylor, they are a great offensive rebounding team, but a very mediocre defensive rebounding team. I expect another game like today where there are lots of offensive rebounds on both sides. The good news is that there is no one left in the tournament who can fully match Duke's size. If we make them beat us inside, which I fully expect us to be able to do (unlike UK), we should have a very good chance to win.

I agree with the "in between" comment. They don't defend quite as well as Purdue, but they score better. They don't score as well as Baylor, but they defend better. They are bigger than Purdue, but smaller than Baylor. They are stronger than either team, though.

The thing that concerns me most about WVU is the fact that they are very happy to spread things out. Their bigs shoot better than their guards, and their guards like to attack the rim. It's not a good matchup for Zoubek. Hopefully Zoubek can do enough defensively to allow him to take advantage of what should be a huge edge on the offensive boards for him.

JohnGalt
03-28-2010, 10:10 PM
Anyone else find it interesting that the 2 teams considered last in line for the final number 1 seed - Duke and UWV - are BOTH in the Final Four; whereas, none of the other #1 seeds are in?

And they call them experts...

DukeGirl4ever
03-28-2010, 10:17 PM
After tonights game, Pomeroy has us back up to number 1 in offensive efficiency. Also, he has us as a 5 point favorite against WV.

Just cause I'm being lazy...what did he have us against Baylor?
This guy is ridic with his ratings....I'm starting to follow it like the Bible.

DevilHorns
03-28-2010, 10:26 PM
Just cause I'm being lazy...what did he have us against Baylor?
This guy is ridic with his ratings....I'm starting to follow it like the Bible.

http://www.kenpom.com/rate.php

I do not know his algorithm (not sure if he publishes it), but he has us with a "luck rank" of 149 (-0.03) and still has us rated as the #1 team this year.

bluedevil2012
03-28-2010, 10:26 PM
Just cause I'm being lazy...what did he have us against Baylor?
This guy is ridic with his ratings....I'm starting to follow it like the Bible.

He had us by 6. We won by 7. It's crazy how accurate he's been.

bluedevil2012
03-28-2010, 10:29 PM
http://www.kenpom.com/rate.php

I do not know his algorithm (not sure if he publishes it), but he has us with a "luck rank" of 149 (-0.03) and still has us rated as the #1 team this year.

The luck ranking doesn't affect ratings. From his explanation:


The easiest one to understand is Luck, which is the deviation in winning percentage between a team’s actual record and their expected record using the correlated gaussian method. The luck factor has nothing to do with the rating calculation, but a team that is very lucky (positive numbers) will tend to be rated lower by my system than their record would suggest.

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/ratings_explanation/

Coastal Devil
03-28-2010, 10:32 PM
Give Coach k a week to prepare I'll take him over any coach left in the final 4!!

Go Duke, we'll be ready!

BigZ
03-28-2010, 10:33 PM
I told my dad before today that Duke would win 78 to 72, could WVU make one more foul shot ? :D

superdave
03-28-2010, 10:34 PM
I like the above descriptions of WV. Seems like this board has a good read on them.

Their last loss was Feb 22nd vs. UConn. So they've won 10 straight, lots of them close games.

Their scoring is very balanced and they appear to play great D. Currently outscoring opponents 72.8 to 63.1.

I watched the whole game vs. Kentucky and kept waiting for UK to go on a tear - didnt happen and that's testament to the WV D. But Duke is more patient on offense as we've seen the last two games than UK was. We'll be able to spend a whole week practicing to take apart that 1-3-1. We looked good at attacking the zone at times tonight and we were patient enough to find cracks others times.

Rebounding ought to be a big advantage for us this game. I hope we can exploit it to a winning degree. I also think Zoubek could get 10-12 points with his size advantage. He has learned how to play downhill on the offensive boards.

DukeGirl4ever
03-28-2010, 10:34 PM
He had us by 6. We won by 7. It's crazy how accurate he's been.


That's what I'm saying...the stuff is $!

Up until last year, I never heard of this rating system, but I am so intrigued by it now. I can't wait for summer vacation when I can find some time to try to wrap my brain around all this stuff.


Hearing that we are favored by him is helping my nerves a bit.

northernduke
03-28-2010, 10:41 PM
Just as Purdue still had a bitter taste in their mouths, I'm sure our guys did too. These last 2 games have been great preparation for the next game!

coldriver10
03-28-2010, 11:58 PM
Maybe I'm misreading everyone, but I get the impression in reading the posts that many may be taking WVU lightly. Granted it doesn't matter what we fans think or say, but I'm a big believer in Karma. WVU is a very good team that can beat any team (e.g. UK) on any given night, and I wouldn't take anything for granted. I have confidence in our guys, but I've been very nervous about every opponent we've faced so far, and that certainly won't change with WVU. Maybe I'm just a pessimist? :)

Zeb
03-29-2010, 12:13 AM
WV knocked many of the guys on this team out of the tourney two years ago.

Revenge is a dish best served cold. In Indianapolis.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-29-2010, 12:14 AM
WV knocked many of the guys on this team out of the tourney two years ago..
That's the first thing people were pointing out

mehmattski
03-29-2010, 12:14 AM
I haven't seen anyone mention that WV knocked many of the guys on this team out of the tourney two years ago.

Revenge is a dish best served cold. In Indianapolis.

Yes, but in Indianapolis, the revenge is most likely covered in cheese sauce and served with a side of chili fries and a 64 oz Mountain Dew.

Acymetric
03-29-2010, 12:16 AM
Yes, but in Indianapolis, the revenge is most likely covered in cheese sauce and served with a side of chili fries and a 64 oz Mountain Dew.

I'm in. And make it a double.

Lulu
03-29-2010, 01:00 AM
So the question is, will WVU listen when the Duke docs recommend that he doesn't play? :rolleyes:

This could be a great ploy by Huggins. Trying to throw off our game plan. And to top it off he sends him to Duke hospital just to make sure we're thinking about it.

No, I'm not serious. But seriously considering the impact...

cptnflash
03-29-2010, 01:42 AM
I went back and checked, and it turns out that Kyle is 0 for 12 from the field after coming down hard on his previously injured wrist at the 11:16 mark in the second half of the Purdue game. And most of those 12 shots were wide open looks. Not good. But the interesting thing is that he's also 11 for 13 from the free throw line since that play. I don't know what to make of it. I guess either he has reinjured his wrist in a way that is affecting his field goal shooting but he's able to sufficiently compensate when he's at the line, or else it's just the normal statistical randomness inherent in a small sample. Obviously I'm hoping for the latter.

Kewlswim
03-29-2010, 02:45 AM
Hi,

I went and took a look at the Carolina and Kentucky message boards, I was curious as to what they had on there.

1) Duke "stole" this win by the refs giving it to us.

2) If Duke loses in the FF it shows how we choke (Guess if you don't make it, you didn't choke?), as well as, Coach K only having 3 titles after being there so many times is a sign of great choking.

3) I hate how Steve Lavin has given fuel to the fire about how easy a road Duke has had to the FF. Why does he say those things? If it was so easy then how could Baylor be such a good opponent? Wait, I've got it now, if we beat an opponent that opponent was awful and if that opponent beats us it shows both how good they are and how flawed we are. Got it. :eek:

GO DUKE!

Saratoga2
03-29-2010, 07:19 AM
I am not sure what was bothering Kyle today. Many of us suspect a slight wrist twinge- maybe some time will heal it. We will need his shot from here on out. Jon got out of his slump this round.

It is interesting the four teams that preach D first and known for D are all in the Final Four. Should be a lot of ugly ball played this coming weekend. Duke's free throw shooting could be the difference.

Could it be the tall, long and quick forwards bother Kyle, especially inside? That is my guess. He will be okay.

slower
03-29-2010, 07:56 AM
Our guys can do this. It won't be easy, because WVU is another one of "those teams" that Kellogg, Elmore, Hubert and the rest will all be picking to send us packing. And I'm betting that WVU may think this will be a repeat of the 2008 game where they can push us around. Just as I thought yesterday's game would be pivotal for Duke's future (as in "Duke is officially back as an elite team"), the WVU game will be just another step back to the summit.

Although the Purdue and Baylor wins SHOULD have permanently rid us of the "soft" label, I think that this particular strain of Duke hate may resurface if WVU beats us (most certainly, if they do it convincingly). Face it - the haters will ALWAYS be there, and the only way to (temporarily) shut them up is on the scoreboard.

Having said that, win or lose in Indy, this year's team has ascended to the #1 position on my favorite teams of all time. These guys have given us an epic season and I think we are all starting to realize just how much we're going to miss them next year.

These guys are freaking WARRIORS and we may not see the likes of this team again for a while. They obviously really care for each other as friends and I couldn't be more proud of them, as a team and as people.

soccerstud2210
03-29-2010, 08:21 AM
Maybe I'm misreading everyone, but I get the impression in reading the posts that many may be taking WVU lightly. Granted it doesn't matter what we fans think or say, but I'm a big believer in Karma. WVU is a very good team that can beat any team (e.g. UK) on any given night, and I wouldn't take anything for granted. I have confidence in our guys, but I've been very nervous about every opponent we've faced so far, and that certainly won't change with WVU. Maybe I'm just a pessimist? :)

i as well get this impression. WVU and Baylor were two teams i didnt want to have to play at all, or at least until the championship.

they are DEFINITELY not a team to take lightly. i feel much better having a week to heal and prepare for WVU then just a day with baylor.

i'm excited. this is hugE!!!!

go DUKE!!!

MChambers
03-29-2010, 08:21 AM
But Duke is more patient on offense as we've seen the last two games than UK was. We'll be able to spend a whole week practicing to take apart that 1-3-1. We looked good at attacking the zone at times tonight and we were patient enough to find cracks others times.

Rebounding ought to be a big advantage for us this game. I hope we can exploit it to a winning degree. I also think Zoubek could get 10-12 points with his size advantage. He has learned how to play downhill on the offensive boards.
I think WV won't play a lot of zone against Duke. I hope I'm wrong, because I think we'd have a relatively easy time against it. From what I understand, Huggins prefers the man-to-man, but kept the 1-3-1 from Belein's time. I think he used it against Kentucky, because of Wall and Bledsoe, and just stuck with it, because it worked.

I expect WV to mostly play man-to-man against Duke.

KyDevilinIL
03-29-2010, 08:45 AM
Maybe I'm misreading everyone, but I get the impression in reading the posts that many may be taking WVU lightly. Granted it doesn't matter what we fans think or say, but I'm a big believer in Karma. WVU is a very good team that can beat any team (e.g. UK) on any given night, and I wouldn't take anything for granted. I have confidence in our guys, but I've been very nervous about every opponent we've faced so far, and that certainly won't change with WVU. Maybe I'm just a pessimist? :)

I think that's the usual reaction right on the heels of a big win. Right now, we feel invincible. As my brother told me last night, he's going to "enjoy (the FF) for two days, then spend the next four getting nervous."

WVU is legit. No one should doubt that. But on paper it's a matchup that seems to favor Duke. But UK and Baylor seemed to have the matchup edges as well, so there's your grain of salt.

Both WVU and Duke seem to have a "team of destiny" aura about them. That ends for someone on Saturday.

billy
03-29-2010, 09:22 AM
2) If Duke loses in the FF it shows how we choke (Guess if you don't make it, you didn't choke?), as well as, Coach K only having 3 titles after being there so many times is a sign of great choking.

Whenever I hear something like this, I like to point out to my carolina friends (???) that Deano had only 2 NC's in 11 FF tries (18%) as opposed to the 3 NC's K had in (now) 11 FF tries (27%, was 33% prior to this year). Hipocrisy is a huge pet peeve of mine....

wva_iron_duke
03-29-2010, 09:32 AM
I think WV won't play a lot of zone against Duke. I hope I'm wrong, because I think we'd have a relatively easy time against it. From what I understand, Huggins prefers the man-to-man, but kept the 1-3-1 from Belein's time. I think he used it against Kentucky, because of Wall and Bledsoe, and just stuck with it, because it worked.

I expect WV to mostly play man-to-man against Duke.

I root for Duke in bball and WVU in football. I have seen all of their televised games.They will play primarily man-to-man because Huggins likes his team to bump and grind and thus wear down the opponent in the 2nd half.Almost always it works.They have a long menu of 3 point shooters and considerable front court depth. "Istanbul" is a skilled low post threat. If Duke doesn't take the halftime lead we are playing into our opponent's hands. It will be a test of will. Where WV is weak is their tendency to miss the front end of 1-1 down the stretch. BTW, the unc fans are ganging up with WVU.

ReformedAggie
03-29-2010, 09:35 AM
I'm sick of hearing that Kyle didn't have a GREAT game. Knock it off. He may not have scored points, but he made it possible for the other two S's to do so. The "pundits" are such idiots that they repeat one thought over and over ... but I don't expect to see it here. Watch the game again, he was superman out there all over the floor.

slower
03-29-2010, 09:39 AM
BTW, the unc fans are ganging up with WVU.

does this surprise you? The ONLY way to shut up the Tarholes (until next year) is on the scoreboard.

roywhite
03-29-2010, 09:40 AM
WVU point guard Darryl Bryant may play

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/89364272.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUjc8LDyiUiacyKUUr


Bryant hasn't been cleared to play, but West Virginia trainer Randy Meador told The Sporting News that Bryant could wear a specially designed shoe that would shift weight away from his fractured fifth metatarsal.

In a television interview Saturday on CBS, Mountaineers coach Bob Huggins said Bryant was in Durham, N.C., getting fitted for the special orthotics that are supposed to take pressure off his injured foot.



Nobody knows metatarsals like the Duke medical staff. :rolleyes:

whereinthehellami
03-29-2010, 10:23 AM
Here are some notes from ESPN:


WVU is good on the road with an 8-4 record versus the 5-5 of Duke.


WVU shoots 43% from 2 while Duke shoots 43%.


WVU shoots 34% from 3 while Duke shoots 39%.


WVU shoots 70% FTs while Duke shoots 76%.


WVU and Duke both have a 1.3/1 Assist to TO ratio.


WVU averages 5.7 steals per game while Duke avergaes 6.7 steals.


Dasean Butler, their leading scorer averages 17.4 PTs/game while shooting 42%FG, 78% FT, and 36% from 3.


Jon Scheyer averages 18.2 PTs/game while shooting 40%FG, 88% FT, and 38% from 3.


Butler leads WVU in made 3s by a wide margin with 70, while Duke's Scheyer (104) and Singler (79) have made more 3s for Duke.


WVU has 7 players who average more than 10 MPG, one of those players is the injured PG Bryant.


Duke has 8 players that average more than 10 MPG.

House G
03-29-2010, 10:32 AM
I'm not worried--Digger Phelps has already picked West Virginia! By the way, how lame is the matching tie and highlighter thing he does? I guess if you don't know anything about basketball . . . .

davekay1971
03-29-2010, 10:50 AM
Hi,

I went and took a look at the Carolina and Kentucky message boards, I was curious as to what they had on there.

2) If Duke loses in the FF it shows how we choke (Guess if you don't make it, you didn't choke?), as well as, Coach K only having 3 titles after being there so many times is a sign of great choking.

GO DUKE!

A classic example of how profoundly stupid your typical IC poster is. Their patron saint, the Hallowed One, He Who Shall Reign Forever as the Divine and Perfect Coach of all Coaches, Dean Smith, went to 11 Final Fours and won the championship twice.

Which, by my count, would make Deano an even bigger choker than Coach K. Hopefully (for many reasons) Duke will win the NC this year, giving Coach K his fourth NC in 11 final four tries, making him exactly half the choker than Dean was.

wva_iron_duke
03-29-2010, 10:51 AM
Caught this posted on the WVU forum by a JayHawk fan.

"The Duke-Baylor game is the last straw. I can no longer stand idly by and watch team after team get screwed by the referees to Duke's benefit. It is time we all did something about the bias of the officials. If we ignore the Final Four and stop buying the products advertised on TV during the tournament the NCAA will take notice. We must do something because the game of college basketball is being ruined before our eyes.

Because Duke in in the Final Four I refuse to watch 1 second of the Final Four this season and any future season in which Duke participates in the Final Four. I will not buy any goods or services from any sponsor of the NCAA Tournament."

Link: Let your voice be heard.

pamtar
03-29-2010, 11:12 AM
We cannot lose to this...http://digitalheadbutt.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/huggins2.jpg

davekay1971
03-29-2010, 11:32 AM
We cannot lose to this...http://digitalheadbutt.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/huggins2.jpg

C'mon, you know K wishes he had that suit...

BTW: Nate James is so badass...he'd make that look good.

HorvathsGhost
03-29-2010, 12:28 PM
I'm not worried--Digger Phelps has already picked West Virginia! By the way, how lame is the matching tie and highlighter thing he does? I guess if you don't know anything about basketball . . . .

I think the highlighter thing is funny, but the tradition of him dancing with co-eds before the games is just creepy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_8fLLMA1Tc

Dirty old man.

YourLandlord
03-29-2010, 12:32 PM
I am worried about WVU's offensive rebounding -- they are #2 in the nation, we are #8. They shoot poorly, but get the rebounds...this has been our strength, and they do the same thing.

striker219
03-29-2010, 12:36 PM
We cannot lose to this...http://digitalheadbutt.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/huggins2.jpg

I don't know what you heard about me
You know these ballers won't be getting no degree
No class, no tests, it can't be
'Cause I'm a West Virginia P-I-M-P

slower
03-29-2010, 12:40 PM
C'mon, you know K wishes he had that suit...

BTW: Nate James is so badass...he'd make that look good.

Huggy's suit is Nate's Shamwow.

NashvilleDevil
03-29-2010, 12:47 PM
A classic example of how profoundly stupid your typical IC poster is. Their patron saint, the Hallowed One, He Who Shall Reign Forever as the Divine and Perfect Coach of all Coaches, Dean Smith, went to 11 Final Fours and won the championship twice.

Which, by my count, would make Deano an even bigger choker than Coach K. Hopefully (for many reasons) Duke will win the NC this year, giving Coach K his fourth NC in 11 final four tries, making him exactly half the choker than Dean was.

And don't forget that the two titles he did win were helped by two of the biggest mental errors in the history of the tournament. All UNC fans should thank Fred Brown and Chris Webber for Dean's titles.

NashvilleDevil
03-29-2010, 12:48 PM
We cannot lose to this...http://digitalheadbutt.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/huggins2.jpg

I love the guy on his bench with his head down. Looks like he's embarrassed.

slower
03-29-2010, 12:49 PM
And don't forget that the two titles he did win were helped by two of the biggest mental errors in the history of the tournament. All UNC fans should thank Fred Brown and Chris Webber for Dean's titles.


Amen to that.

Indoor66
03-29-2010, 01:04 PM
BTW: Nate James is so badass...he'd make that look good.

NOBODY could make that suit look good!

superdave
03-29-2010, 01:04 PM
And don't forget that the two titles he did win were helped by two of the biggest mental errors in the history of the tournament. All UNC fans should thank Fred Brown and Chris Webber for Dean's titles.

And Roy Williams should thank Matt Doherty for 2005. And he should thank the refs from the Villanova game as well - they handed him that game.

left_hook_lacey
03-29-2010, 01:07 PM
Hi,

I went and took a look at the Carolina and Kentucky message boards, I was curious as to what they had on there.

1) Duke "stole" this win by the refs giving it to us.

2) If Duke loses in the FF it shows how we choke (Guess if you don't make it, you didn't choke?), as well as, Coach K only having 3 titles after being there so many times is a sign of great choking.

3) I hate how Steve Lavin has given fuel to the fire about how easy a road Duke has had to the FF. Why does he say those things? If it was so easy then how could Baylor be such a good opponent? Wait, I've got it now, if we beat an opponent that opponent was awful and if that opponent beats us it shows both how good they are and how flawed we are. Got it. :eek:

GO DUKE!

Not sure why either, but Colin Cowherd said the same thing today on his show...."Duke was given a clear path to the final 4 by the selection committee, and CBS couldn't be happier that they made the final 4."

He did go on to say that he was rooting for Duke because he couldn't find anything to hate about Duke like so many others can. But he said, "Let's be honest, the NCAA cleared a path for Duke. I'm not saying they did it on purpose, but it was the easiest path, we all said it starting the tournament. We also said that Kansas was in the toughest bracket, and they didn't come close to making it."

Starter
03-29-2010, 01:08 PM
I've actually worn orthotics since 2002 to correct a knee issue. (It works, I've run two marathons) And I'd be stunned if Bryant were able to play at any level of effectiveness. A fifth metatarsal injury -- as we know from Elton -- is the bone that connects the outside of your forefoot to the ankle. It's a three-month injury -- which makes it all the more impressive that we got Elton back in like six weeks. I would assume the orthotic would provide the opposite of what it usually gives, which is arch support, and would nudge the outside of Bryant's foot up to make it non-weight-bearing. (I'm hardly a doctor, so I could easily be wrong, but this makes sense to me) I just can't see how that would alleviate the pain of a broken foot. I'm sure they'll shoot him full of stuff too, but I'd imagine any time he makes a cut, it'd feel like he's breaking it all over again.

superdave
03-29-2010, 01:09 PM
WVU point guard Darryl Bryant may play

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/89364272.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUjc8LDyiUiacyKUUr


Nobody knows metatarsals like the Duke medical staff. :rolleyes:

It's fine by me if Bryant wants to go at less than full strength. Maybe they waste a half figuring out what he's capable of.

Either way, this game will be decided on the boards.

Starter
03-29-2010, 01:15 PM
Not sure why either, but Colin Cowherd said the same thing today on his show...."Duke was given a clear path to the final 4 by the selection committee, and CBS couldn't be happier that they made the final 4."

He did go on to say that he was rooting for Duke because he couldn't find anything to hate about Duke like so many others can. But he said, "Let's be honest, the NCAA cleared a path for Duke. I'm not saying they did it on purpose, but it was the easiest path, we all said it starting the tournament. We also said that Kansas was in the toughest bracket, and they didn't come close to making it."

Here's my take, point by point:

-- CBS probably IS ecstatic that Duke is in there. Can you blame them? They get the highest ratings for their games and the alternative is a Baylor team nobody knows anything about.
-- People just need something to hate and Duke is convenient. Krzyzewski's right, they're like the Yankees. There's nothing loathsome about this group. No polarizing figures like Redick, Battier.
-- Kansas pretty much did have the toughest region, but they lost to Northern Iowa, who could have been in ANY region. And honestly, Kansas on paper should have beaten any of the teams in that region regardless.
-- I don't think the NCAA rigged it so Duke had an EZ-Pass to the Final Four. But there's no way you'll ever shut down those conspiracy theories, because it's understandable to see why they would want that. Of course, the dream UK-Duke matchup was derailed before the train left the station, so if that was part of their "attempt"...

MChambers
03-29-2010, 01:21 PM
I am worried about WVU's offensive rebounding -- they are #2 in the nation, we are #8. They shoot poorly, but get the rebounds...this has been our strength, and they do the same thing.

That was true of Baylor, too, to an extent, because Baylor was #22 in offensive rebounding. I think we'll see a lot of offensive rebounds in this one.

On the flip side, WV isn't that great at defensive rebounding, and they foul a lot. In fact, opponents shoot free throws at a slightly higher rate than WV.

Overall, WV is very good, and doesn't have any glaring weaknesses, but there are areas where Duke should have an edge.

Like others, I'm worried about who Zoubs will guard. WV doesn't have anyone that would be easy for him to cover.

CDu
03-29-2010, 01:24 PM
It's fine by me if Bryant wants to go at less than full strength. Maybe they waste a half figuring out what he's capable of.

I agree. I can't imagine that Bryant playing PG on a broken foot will be a good idea for them against our defense. The amount of work he'd have to do against Smith would just kill his foot. I'd be surprised if he played. And if he does play, I think that's actually an advantage for Duke.


Either way, this game will be decided on the boards.

I think the game will come down to the following:
1. Rebounding (both teams are great offensive rebounding teams)
2. How well we defend their forwards/bigs on the perimeter
3. How well we defend their dribble penetration
4. How well we shoot from outside
5. Foul trouble (they play 6 guys 20+ mpg, and basically nobody else)

They'll likely only play one guard (unless Bryant plays, and I again expect that that'd be a mistake) along with four big, physical forwards. At least three of those forwards will be very good shooters who can also score in the post, with the fourth being a freakish athlete (Ebanks).

CDu
03-29-2010, 01:26 PM
That was true of Baylor, too, to an extent, because Baylor was #22 in offensive rebounding. I think we'll see a lot of offensive rebounds in this one.

On the flip side, WV isn't that great at defensive rebounding, and they foul a lot. In fact, opponents shoot free throws at a slightly higher rate than WV.

Overall, WV is very good, and doesn't have any glaring weaknesses, but there are areas where Duke should have an edge.

Like others, I'm worried about who Zoubs will guard. WV doesn't have anyone that would be easy for him to cover.

Agreed. The best case scenario is that we get a couple of their bigs in early foul trouble, and they have to go to Thoroughman or Kilicli. That'd be a fantastic matchup for Zoubek - a short bruiser with minimal skills, zero quickness, zero shooting range, and zero leaping ability.

left_hook_lacey
03-29-2010, 01:35 PM
Here's my take, point by point:

-- CBS probably IS ecstatic that Duke is in there. Can you blame them? They get the highest ratings for their games and the alternative is a Baylor team nobody knows anything about.
-- People just need something to hate and Duke is convenient. Krzyzewski's right, they're like the Yankees. There's nothing loathsome about this group. No polarizing figures like Redick, Battier.
-- Kansas pretty much did have the toughest region, but they lost to Northern Iowa, who could have been in ANY region. And honestly, Kansas on paper should have beaten any of the teams in that region regardless.
-- I don't think the NCAA rigged it so Duke had an EZ-Pass to the Final Four. But there's no way you'll ever shut down those conspiracy theories, because it's understandable to see why they would want that. Of course, the dream UK-Duke matchup was derailed before the train left the station, so if that was part of their "attempt"...

Cowherd is following up to say that this tournament is the perfect storm for Duke to win it all because many of the traditional powers didn't make it this year, and some of the ones that did make it were in rebuilding years. He said he picked Duke to make the championship game, but only because their weren't as many power teams in it this year.

Matches
03-29-2010, 01:37 PM
I think it's shocking that a team could get to the Final Four not playing anyone higher than a #4 seed. Michigan State's road to the final four was the easiest in 573 years! I guess CBS, the Selection Committee, NASCAR, the French mafia, and Lindsay Lohan really wanted MSU in the FF.

jipops
03-29-2010, 01:45 PM
Cowherd is following up to say that this tournament is the perfect storm for Duke to win it all because many of the traditional powers didn't make it this year, and some of the ones that did make it were in rebuilding years. He said he picked Duke to make the championship game, but only because their weren't as many power teams in it this year.

By recent college standards, Duke isn't exactly a traditional power this year either. Unlike the past several years, this Final Four isn't filled with a couple teams touting multiple sure-thing nba 1st round draft picks. All four are filled with experienced capable players with very methodical coaches. This final four isn't about who has the most over-whelming talent. This is about whose game-plan will prevail, what match-ups are going to work and which are not. It is a 100% toss-up. I really don't think an underdog exists in this Final Four. Not one team, not even us, is capable of overwhelming another with talent. This Final Four truly is college basketball at it's best.

BoC
03-29-2010, 02:10 PM
I love the guy on his bench with his head down. Looks like he's embarrassed.

That's the first (well, second) thing I noticed, too...

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/mithril_biscuit/huggins2_WTF.jpg

left_hook_lacey
03-29-2010, 02:21 PM
I think it's shocking that a team could get to the Final Four not playing anyone higher than a #4 seed. Michigan State's road to the final four was the easiest in 573 years! I guess CBS, the Selection Committee, NASCAR, the French mafia, and Lindsay Lohan really wanted MSU in the FF.

Yeah, I agree. People are mad that Duke had what was considered the easiest path before the tournament started, but you can't blame Duke for beating the teams that were put in front of them. If people are mad about it, they should be mad at the NCAA, not Duke.

dukeENG2003
03-29-2010, 02:33 PM
The Duke doctors will have good inside info on Bryants foot, relay it to the coaches, and tell Nolan EXACTLY how to shake and bake him to HAVE to put weight on that metatarsal and thus crumple to the floor in a heap in the first 2 minutes of the game.

How's THAT for a conspiracy theory. . .

BD80
03-29-2010, 02:44 PM
The Duke doctors will have good inside info on Bryants foot, relay it to the coaches, and tell Nolan EXACTLY how to shake and bake him to HAVE to put weight on that metatarsal and thus crumple to the floor in a heap in the first 2 minutes of the game.

How's THAT for a conspiracy theory. . .

I think they should put him in some 3" pumps the color of Huggy Bear's leisure suit!

BlueDevilBaby
03-29-2010, 02:47 PM
That's the first (well, second) thing I noticed, too...

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/mithril_biscuit/huggins2_WTF.jpg

I believe that's one Billy Hahn(?), former MD assistant, no?

InSpades
03-29-2010, 02:53 PM
If people learned anything from this tournament it should be that perception is not reality. Everyone thought the Big East was great again. Look at how they performed in the tournament:
Syracuse - lost to #5 Butler, 2 games before they should have
Villanova - lost to #10 St. Mary's, 2 games before they should have
Pitt - lost to #6 Xavier, 1 game before they should have
Louisville - lost to #8 Cal.
Marquette - lost to #11 Washington, 1 game before they should have
Notre Dame - lost to #11 ODU, 1 game before they should have
Georgetown - lost to #14 Ohio, 2 games before they should have
West Virginia - exceeded expectations by 1 game.

That's 6 BE teams that underperformed their seed, 3 of them by more than 1 game. 1 who lost a toss-up and 1 that actually outperformed their seed. They were 8-7 in the tournament despite having 5 top 3 seeds.

If Kansas had made a run to the final four they would have played a 16 seed, UNI, Michigan St. without their point guard and then Tennessee. Compare that to Duke's road of a 16 seed, Cal, Purdue without their star and Baylor. Which one is easier? They are virtually identical (if anything Duke's road is tougher).

The talking-heads don't know what they are talking about. They've proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt of late. They will pick against Duke again in the Final Four. Despite Duke having the best defense left in the tournament and the 3 top scorers left in the tournament. Yes, that's right, no one else left in the tournament scores as much as any of Duke's top 3 (Butler is close, but slightly behind Nolan) on a PPG basis. Let them say what they want, he who has the last laugh laughs best.

MChambers
03-29-2010, 03:11 PM
I believe that's one Billy Hahn(?), former MD assistant, no?

That's who it is.

WordLife565
03-29-2010, 03:16 PM
Another zone.

Simply put, if we prevent turnovers, and Scheyer and Singler are solid from 3, we get our offensive rebounds, because the zone will make it easier for us to do that, and Smith is capable of either shooting that 3, or attacking that zone, Duke can't be beat

that's pretty much how Zone goes for Duke.


Easier said than done, but this Duke team has proven that they can do that, and I now trust Scheyer in this tournament to remain solid. We've played hard all tournament, regardless of what the critics say, and we need to just go into indy with a solid gameplan, and keep our eyes on the prize.


I also have concluded that the winner of this game will be the National Champion. Izzo can coach extremely well, but Duke is the type of team that won't let them get as lucky as they have been in this tournament, same with WV, and MSU is still probably the weakest team in this Final Four. As for Butler, they have great defense, and have the crowd on their back, but I just don't see them being able to match up with Duke or West Virginia.

coldriver10
03-29-2010, 03:32 PM
I also have concluded that the winner of this game will be the National Champion. Izzo can coach extremely well, but Duke is the type of team that won't let them get as lucky as they have been in this tournament, same with WV, and MSU is still probably the weakest team in this Final Four. As for Butler, they have great defense, and have the crowd on their back, but I just don't see them being able to match up with Duke or West Virginia.
You really never know...I certainly didn't pick Butler over Syracuse. If this tournament has taught us anything it's that any team can win on any given night. We have to play our best team ball this weekend.

whereinthehellami
03-29-2010, 03:38 PM
I was just looking at the WVU (4) boxscores agasint Morgan State, Missouri, Washington, & KY and here are some items that jumped out at me...


WVU relies on 3 scorers (Butler 17.3 ppg, Jones 15.3 ppg, & Ebanks 13.5 ppg) more than Duke. Only once has any other player outside of their big 3 scored in double figures and that was Mazzulla and he only did that once (against KY).


WVU has won every half in the tourney except for the first half against Washington.


I thought Butler was ripping it up more than he is. Butler is shooting 34% FGs, 39% from 3, and 74% from the FT. Good numbers but not as good as I though he was getting.


Jones is hot from 3 to the tune of 8-14, or 57%.


Mazzulla fouled out against KY and had 4 fouls against Missouri. Can Duke exploit this? With Bryant out with a broken foot their ball handling could be shaky.


Ebanks has 13 TOs in his 4 tourney games, which is good for 3.3 TOs/game. He had 8 TOs against the Huskies.


WVU has a +4 in rebounding over their opponents in the tourney. i thought they were rebounding better than this. This will be a big area for Duke to win.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-29-2010, 03:46 PM
some of you may not be happy about this........

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2010/news/story?id=5038535

diveonthefloor
03-29-2010, 03:58 PM
Here's my take, point by point:

Krzyzewski's right, they're like the Yankees. .



I don't really like the Yankee analogy that some people have used, including Coach K himself....

The current Yankees are good because not jusr because they have great coaches and great tradition....they are good in large part because their large-market income enables them to bid on every decent free agent who ever gets on the market, and usually get him. Heck, look at the Yankees payroll, it dwards every other major league team (maybe except the RedSox).

Duke is good because of great coaching and great tradition.

In general, college teams don't have to worry about being outbid on the free agent market....(well I guess you could argue Kentucky actually does this now that they have Calislimy as a head coach.)

diveonthefloor
03-29-2010, 04:01 PM
some of you may not be happy about this........

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2010/news/story?id=5038535

Ha! You know Roy is doing this so K will look bad if he loses.....and if he wins, Roy will say that Duke had no competition.

Roy is such a transparent jack*ss.

wilko
03-29-2010, 04:02 PM
some of you may not be happy about this........

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2010/news/story?id=5038535

If that was "genuine" I'm sure that was a tough admission for him.
However, I'm pretty sure that's some UNC-ese coach speak for " I hope those so and so's blow it, dadgumit"

So I return the favor with... "They (UNC) are the best team in the NIT and should be favored to win it all" :p

MChambers
03-29-2010, 04:11 PM
I'm pleased to see that Ol' Roy still refers to himself in the third person, much like the former mayor of Washington, D.C., Marion Barry.

mbd1mbd1
03-29-2010, 04:31 PM
I'm pleased to see that Ol' Roy still refers to himself in the third person, much like the former mayor of Washington, D.C., Marion Barry.

And Ricky.

whereinthehellami
03-29-2010, 04:45 PM
Here is the boxscore from the 2008 loss to WVU.

http://home.va.metrocast.net/~cannonclyde/boxscore.JPG

For WVU


Butler started and had 8 points, 5 boards, and fouled out.


Mazzulla came off the bench and had a great game with 13 pts, 11 rbs (can that be right), and 8 ast (4 TOs).


W. Smith started but didn't score, played 12 minutes, and ended up with 4 fouls.


Flowers came off the bench for only played 9 minutes and had 4 pts and 2 rbs.


For Duke


Singler started but ended up with only 6 pts, 4 rbs, 1 blk, & 1 stl. Singler had 4 fouls and only played 27 minutes.


Thomas started but only got 2 pts, 2 assts, & 1 rb before fouling out in only 21 minutes.


N. Smith came off the bench for 5 pts, 1 stl, & 1 rb in 12 minutes of action.


Scheyer came off the bench but played 29 minutes getting 15 pts, 2 asst, 1 RB, & 1 stl.


Zoubek came off the bench for only 2 minutes and collected 1 rb and 1 TO.


I forgot how good of a game Mazzulla had against Duke the last time they met. He was the difference in the KY game also. Kid is tough and fearless. Duke has to check that this time around.

Henderson and Scheyer had good shooting nights for Duke but Nelson did not (2-11). The big story that night was the rebounding pounding that Duke took at the hands of WVU (45-19) coupled with Duke's poor shooting from 3 (5-22). I hope K shows this game to the guys this week. Go get it seniors!

JohnGalt
03-29-2010, 04:49 PM
I don't really like the Yankee analogy that some people have used, including Coach K himself....

The current Yankees are good because not jusr because they have great coaches and great tradition....they are good in large part because their large-market income enables them to bid on every decent free agent who ever gets on the market, and usually get him. Heck, look at the Yankees payroll, it dwards every other major league team (maybe except the RedSox).


Although staunchly against anything Yankee, I have to stick up for them here. This past year notwithstanding, the Yankee payroll is not why they won in the 90s. Sure, they were up at the top, but not overwhelmingly so. It is when they began spending 20,30,40 million more than everyone else that they began to actually lose...

Starter
03-29-2010, 04:50 PM
The Yankees analogy isn't about how they build their teams or the methods with which they win, it's about public perception. People need someone to hate. For whatever reason (unlimited payroll for Yanks :: perception of privilege/latent racism for Duke) -- people need a villain, and we/they are it.

JohnGalt
03-29-2010, 04:56 PM
The Yankees analogy isn't about how they build their teams or the methods with which they win, it's about public perception. People need someone to hate. For whatever reason (unlimited payroll for Yanks :: perception of privilege/latent racism for Duke) -- people need a villain, and we/they are it.

I agree...which is why I posted against the one quoted above.

Bluedog
03-29-2010, 04:59 PM
I hate Jay Mariotti, but he has an interesting quote in his article (http://jay-mariotti.fanhouse.com/2010/03/28/broken-down-like-obama-i-now-pick-west-virginia/):

"There was always Kentucky looming," forward Wellington Smith said. "Now that we've played Kentucky, that basically was the national championship game. We have a chance at this. We could win going away."

No respect! Ouch!

JohnGalt
03-29-2010, 05:02 PM
I hate Jay Mariotti, but he has an interesting quote in his article (http://jay-mariotti.fanhouse.com/2010/03/28/broken-down-like-obama-i-now-pick-west-virginia/):

"There was always Kentucky looming," forward Wellington Smith said. "Now that we've played Kentucky, that basically was the national championship game. We have a chance at this. We could win going away."

No respect! Ouch!

I'll take it. Duke hasn't gotten any respect this entire year and it's worked out decently thus far. No respect is fine for me.

Kdogg
03-29-2010, 05:07 PM
The Yankees analogy isn't about how they build their teams or the methods with which they win, it's about public perception. People need someone to hate. For whatever reason (unlimited payroll for Yanks :: perception of privilege/latent racism for Duke) -- people need a villain, and we/they are it.

At this point I'm tired of defending my alma mater against the ignorant/uninformed masses. For the next week I am going to embrace the boogie man role.

- We get all the calls : Yes we do. What are you going to do about it?
- The NCAA/CBS/Illuminati wants Duke in the FF : Of course they do we're the big draw.
- The refs gave us the game: Well our checks don't bounce. :)

I've used all TODAY and people actual don't know how to respond. I just want to enjoy the trip to the Final Four.

NashvilleDevil
03-29-2010, 05:14 PM
A quote about Coach K and Duke from Jay Bilas's Final Four blog:

"That is what coaching is about. Instead of trying to play a certain way, the best coaches choose to play the best way for his team to win."

What coach do we know that did not follow this formula?

Devil07
03-29-2010, 05:30 PM
some of you may not be happy about this........

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2010/news/story?id=5038535

Also from that article:
"Any time Duke is doing well," the Tar Heels' Marcus Ginyard said, "it hurts my heart."
Really? I mean honestly, how is he still talking?

OldPhiKap
03-29-2010, 05:33 PM
Williams has even worked with Bob Huggins during summer camps in Las Vegas, and thinks the West Virginia coach will shed his dour facade -- and a few tears -- if he wins the title.

"There's no question about it, it would be extremely important to him," Williams said. "He's an emotional guy and you see this gruff exterior, but I tell you what, he'll be just as bad as Roy Williams if he wins this thing. He'll cry just as much as Roy Williams did."



Technically, does that count as Roy talking in the fourth person?

DevilHorns
03-29-2010, 06:20 PM
From the Mariotti article:

When someone referred to Duke's recent March failures as "meltdowns'' -- a fair comment in the wake of three Round of 16 losses in the previous five years -- Coach K erupted.

"What is a meltdown?" Krzyzewski said. "I want to know what a meltdown is. Somebody losing? I don't know what a meltdown is."

Someone should have handed him a mirror. That's a meltdown. When you're considered by some to be the best college coach since John Wooden and, a year and a half ago, directed Team USA to a long-sought gold medal in Beijing, folks tend to wonder why Coach K hasn't won a national title at Duke since 2001.

----------
Talk about out of context. Media always defending other media. Does he not realize that if someone fabricates a quote and tries to trap a player into saying something (especially after a great win!) that he is damned guaranteed to get a lashing by an army man like K.

dukeblue225
03-29-2010, 11:02 PM
We'll get payback. Joe Mazzulla will pay for slapping that floor two years ago. Will be another physical slugfest, can"t wait.

DevilHorns
03-29-2010, 11:38 PM
Jay Bilas:

"Duke as national champ?: Of the teams in a pretty wide-open Final Four, Duke has the best chance to win the national championship. Duke is healthy (Michigan State and West Virginia have significant injuries); Duke can consistently make shots from multiple positions (Michigan State and Butler can, too); Duke has size and offensive rebounding strength (West Virginia does, too); Duke has the best scoring defense (West Virginia and Butler are excellent, too); and Duke has a coach who has won a championship before (Michigan State does, too).

Duke has made some really interesting adjustments this season, and Mike Krzyzewski has shaped this team into one of his most effective defensive teams while playing differently. Duke is more of a containment team on defense, and is doing a better job of limiting teams to one shot and preventing penetration. Krzyzewski has had better and more powerful defensive teams that created turnovers and forced teams further out on the floor to take them out of what they want to run. Yet this Duke team limits opponents to fewer points than any team he has ever had. That is what coaching is about. Instead of trying to play a certain way, the best coaches choose to play the best way for his team to win."

YourLandlord
03-30-2010, 09:01 AM
John Wall dunk!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXlyal3EmRA&feature=player_embedded

devildownunder
03-30-2010, 09:41 AM
Although staunchly against anything Yankee, I have to stick up for them here. This past year notwithstanding, the Yankee payroll is not why they won in the 90s. Sure, they were up at the top, but not overwhelmingly so. It is when they began spending 20,30,40 million more than everyone else that they began to actually lose...

Money does have a lot to do w/Yankee success though. It's not the only factor because they're not the only ones with money but the thing is, they are -- in reality -- in competition with only 8 or 9 other clubs and because of their spending, they never lose their cornerstone players. They were lucky/prescient to acquire and develop Jeter and Rivera as young talent but its the pinstripe prominence and money that has kept those two in the Bronx for so long.

They do deserve credit for doing more with big money than some other franchises, however. You can't be rich and dumb and still win.

devildownunder
03-30-2010, 09:50 AM
The Yankees analogy isn't about how they build their teams or the methods with which they win, it's about public perception. People need someone to hate. For whatever reason (unlimited payroll for Yanks :: perception of privilege/latent racism for Duke) -- people need a villain, and we/they are it.

The only thing that bothers me about the Yankee analogy is that we don't actually win as much as they do but we get just as much hate. The yankees have 5 world titles and 7 penants in 15 years. If we were in the middle of a stretch like that, I think I'd be too busy celebrating to even notice the hate.

The irony is that when we were in a somewhat comparable stretch -- 7 FFs and 2 NC in 9 years -- we didn't receive nearly as much hate.

Weird.

hq2
03-30-2010, 10:13 AM
One thing I remember about the game a couple of years ago was that
WVA pushed us around a lot. Well, it won't happen this time. We've got a healthy, bigger Zoubs, and the Plumlees, and we'll be pushing back this time. Look for us to try to get all 3 involved in the offense, especially with Singler's shooting being a problem. We can take 'em.

And as for this crap about Duke having an easy regional; note that everyone forgot that we had:

1. Villanova at #2 who blew us away last year and who still would have given us matchup problems. It isn't our fault they got upset.

2. Baylor playing essentially a home game at #3, who also gave us matchup problems. I'd say the committee made it about as hard for us possible, actually, and we still won.

This team did not "sneak" into the final four. They beat a #4 and #3, and with good clutch play and better shooting. Duke earned, it fair and square. It isn't our fault the other top teams choked. That's their problem.

91devil
03-30-2010, 10:38 AM
The irony is that when we were in a somewhat comparable stretch -- 7 FFs and 2 NC in 9 years -- we didn't receive nearly as much hate.

Weird.

Not so weird. No internet in the late 80s / early 90s. The dotcom era has ushered in a new way for folks to anonymously (i.e. behind a screen name or avatar) say what every they want.

Hate was there, just not globally known.

airowe
03-30-2010, 10:52 AM
I'm guessing WVU comes out in pressure man-to-man and tries to bothers with their length. It would be nice if we can get some quick hitters through the lane early (hello Nolan!) But this is not really our strongauit. If we can, it may force them to go to their 1-3-1 zone which would allow us to increase our offensive rebounding edge. If we can't, we'll need to be able to hit some outside shots to create some overplaying by their guards. This will allow us to more effectively use our bigs to screen and give some cushion for our shooters in the halfcourt motion. I think their length will give us fits, but with a week to prepare, I'm sure the Duke coaching staff can come up with ways to get separation.

On the other end, we'll have to work hard to keep them off the glass (they are a better offensive rebounding team than even us) so I don't see us employing zone very much. Switching on Butler could cause some problems, so hopefully he doesn't get isolated against Nolan or one of our bigs or else he could really cause us problems.

MChambers
03-30-2010, 11:00 AM
Nice preview here:

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1046

CDu
03-30-2010, 11:21 AM
Not so weird. No internet in the late 80s / early 90s. The dotcom era has ushered in a new way for folks to anonymously (i.e. behind a screen name or avatar) say what every they want.

Hate was there, just not globally known.

Actually, I'm guessing the hate really wasn't there nationally yet. We were a bit of the plucky overachiever for much of that stretch, until 1991-1992 when we reached the pinnacle. We were a 2 or 3 seed from 1987-1991, so it wasn't like we were the "big bad Yankees" at that point. Even in 1991, we were a #2 seed and a huge underdog to UNLV.

I'm sure there were local haters, but nationally I think we hadn't earned a nasty reputation. Part of that is the lack of media outlets, and part of it is that we just weren't as huge a deal yet.

bluepenguin
03-30-2010, 12:00 PM
We'll get payback. Joe Mazzulla will pay for slapping that floor two years ago. Will be another physical slugfest, can"t wait.

Let's show him what it means to be caught up in the moment!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/sports/ncaabasketball/30coaches.html?ref=todayspaper

The Duke mystique had taken a significant slap, right down to the loss in the N.C.A.A. tournament loss (sic) two years ago when West Virginia’s Joe Mazzulla smacked his palms on the floor to mock the longstanding Duke tradition.
“That’s kind of what Duke’s all about,” Mazzulla said. “It was a just-caught-up-in-the-moment type thing.”

CrazieDUMB
03-30-2010, 12:05 PM
Do we have any updates on Kyle's hand? Just saw this pic on greybeard's thread, I had no idea it was so bad. Makes you wonder why they let him play on it.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1039&d=1269902283

Is anyone going on the Duke coaching staff going to be honest about this? How much should we be worried? Furthermore, why wasn't this brought up in a press conference?

I_am_a_Blue_Devil
03-30-2010, 12:09 PM
To me, it looks like a shadow from the rim, kinda like the shadow that is cast on the shoulder of his shirt. At least i hope that's not all bruising....

Vincetaylor
03-30-2010, 12:13 PM
Do we have any updates on Kyle's hand? Just saw this pic on greybeard's thread, I had no idea it was so bad. Makes you wonder why they let him play on it.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1039&d=1269902283

Is anyone going on the Duke coaching staff going to be honest about this? How much should we be worried? Furthermore, why wasn't this brought up in a press conference?

It looks pretty bad to me. The Duke coaching staff understandably won't talk about it. I wouldn't if I were them. However, I can't believe the media hasn't picked up on it. Kyle doesn't go 0-10 unless something is wrong. That's probably the first game since we was 5 years old that he hasn't hit a field goal in. He's just too good.

coldriver10
03-30-2010, 12:18 PM
It looks pretty bad to me. The Duke coaching staff understandably won't talk about it. I wouldn't if I were them. However, I can't believe the media hasn't picked up on it. Kyle doesn't go 0-10 unless something is wrong. That's probably the first game since we was 5 years old that he hasn't hit a field goal in. He's just too good.
Is there a chance he had iced it before cutting down the nets? Honestly, at first glance it looks more like a hand that's just been dunked in icewater than it does bruising. It's far too uniform from wrist to fingertips to be your typical bruise.

Of course it's possible it is bad bruising, but my money would be that he had his hand in ice prior to this photo.

fisheyes
03-30-2010, 12:57 PM
Is there a chance he had iced it before cutting down the nets? Honestly, at first glance it looks more like a hand that's just been dunked in icewater than it does bruising. It's far too uniform from wrist to fingertips to be your typical bruise.

Of course it's possible it is bad bruising, but my money would be that he had his hand in ice prior to this photo.

I am pretty certain that the discoloration is due to the tape being wrapped too tightly. The uniform nature of the discoloration suggests venous congestion and not blood under the skin from trauma.

The Gordog
03-30-2010, 01:43 PM
When dowe find out the tip off time? Does anyone know?

coldriver10
03-30-2010, 01:45 PM
I am pretty certain that the discoloration is due to the tape being wrapped too tightly. The uniform nature of the discoloration suggests venous congestion and not blood under the skin from trauma.
Agreed with the last part. I had initially thought it might be the tape, but for tape to affect circulation to that extent, it would have to be uncomfortable...I would think enough for him not to be able to play the whole game like that. But who knows. I agree that it's not bruising, though.

coldriver10
03-30-2010, 01:46 PM
When dowe find out the tip off time? Does anyone know?
Game is Saturday at 8:47 pm.

CDu
03-30-2010, 01:47 PM
When dowe find out the tip off time? Does anyone know?

According to ESPN, tipoff is at 8:47pm ET on Saturday.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/scoreboard?date=20100403

YourLandlord
03-30-2010, 01:54 PM
It's 40 minutes after the first game ends, FYI.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-30-2010, 03:30 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2010/news/story?id=5039078

roywhite
03-30-2010, 03:35 PM
According to ESPN, tipoff is at 8:47pm ET on Saturday.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/scoreboard?date=20100403

Given the game time, nervous anticipation, and the importance of this contest, I see one challenge for sure:

Maintaining some semblance of sobriety.

cptnflash
03-30-2010, 04:40 PM
According to ESPN.com, Truck Bryant is now "very doubtful" for Saturday.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2010/news/story?id=5041108

-bdbd
03-30-2010, 05:14 PM
Las Vegas oddsmakers have Duke listed as the favorite to win it all in Indy.

Duke comes in at 7:5 favorites, with WV only slightly behind at 2:1 odds, then Butler and MSU seem to be considered relative longshots. A

Also in this article, Sagarin runs a large number of simulations and has Duke winning it all about 40% of the time, with MSU winning it all 25% of the time...

A cautionary note: this still leaves the probability that Duke will NOT win it all. But that said, this should give the guys at least a bit of a boost of confidence. Caution #2: The Vegas odds are more an indication of how they expect the bets to go and NOT the actual odds of winning.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/03/las-vegas-makes-duke-a-7-5-favorite-to-win-national-title-sagarin-simulation-agrees/1

CDu
03-30-2010, 05:16 PM
According to ESPN.com, Truck Bryant is now "very doubtful" for Saturday.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2010/news/story?id=5041108

That's not overly surprising. I have trouble believing that a PG could return so quickly from a broken foot. Especially when you consider the kind of pressure a guy like Nolan Smith can put on you in the half court. Even if he could get out there at all, I'd have to believe he'd be a liability for them on both ends of the court.

MChambers
03-30-2010, 05:28 PM
Did you watch the last few minutes of Saturday's game.? (Rhetorical question.) WV had almost no one who could handle the ball or shoot free throws. If nothing else, having Bryant for the end of the game, foot or no foot, might be helpful.

CDu
03-30-2010, 05:32 PM
Did you watch the last few minutes of Saturday's game.? (Rhetorical question.) WV had almost no one who could handle the ball or shoot free throws. If nothing else, having Bryant for the end of the game, foot or no foot, might be helpful.

Well, I don't know that a PG on one foot is better than having a non-PG on two feet. Doesn't matter how well you can dribble if you can't move.

coldriver10
03-30-2010, 05:38 PM
Well, I don't know that a PG on one foot is better than having a non-PG on two feet. Doesn't matter how well you can dribble if you can't move.
Agreed. I thought Mazzulla was really impressive as well, at least what I saw of the game.

CDu
03-30-2010, 05:41 PM
Agreed. I thought Mazzulla was really impressive as well, at least what I saw of the game.

He played really well. One thing to keep an eye on though will be foul trouble. If Mazzulla gets in foul trouble, they'll have no PG. If two of Ebanks/Smith/Jones get in foul trouble, they'll likely have to go to Kilicli or Thoroughman (both of whom are pretty awful, and would give Zoubek a substantial advantage). Granted, that works both ways. If our big three pick up fouls, we may be in trouble.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-30-2010, 06:51 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/9629/obama-sees-a-favorite-taking-final-four


Obama's pick

striker219
03-30-2010, 06:56 PM
Well, I don't know that a PG on one foot is better than having a non-PG on two feet. Doesn't matter how well you can dribble if you can't move.

This guy knows a little something about facing that kind of adversity.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/multimedia/images/full/331445.jpg

MChambers
03-30-2010, 07:05 PM
Well, I don't know that a PG on one foot is better than having a non-PG on two feet. Doesn't matter how well you can dribble if you can't move.

I hear what you're saying and if Bryant is that bad off, then they shouldn't play him. On the other hand, if he can move some, maybe they hold him out, and hope that he can give them 5 minutes late.

weezie
03-30-2010, 07:22 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/9629/obama-sees-a-favorite-taking-final-four


Obama's pick

Even he's hedging against the Duke hate.

House G
03-30-2010, 09:06 PM
I am pretty certain that the discoloration is due to the tape being wrapped too tightly. The uniform nature of the discoloration suggests venous congestion and not blood under the skin from trauma.
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express in Houston--I agree with this diagnosis that the tape is acting like a tourniquet and causing the swelling and purple discoloration. If so, the venous congestion will resolve fairly quickly with removal of the tape. Obviously, the severity of the underlying wrist injury is the prime concern.

houstondukie
03-30-2010, 10:15 PM
Here's a look at WVU lineup:

Starters:

J. Mazzulla - Junior - 6’2 200
D. Butler - Senior - 6’7 230
D. Ebanks - Sophomore - 6’9 215
W. Smith - Senior - 6’7 245
K. Jones - Sophomore - 6’8 250

Bench:

C. Mitchell - Junior - 6’4 225
J. Flowers - Junior - 6’7 215
C. Thoroughman - Junior - 6’7 240
D. Kilicli - Freshman - 6’9 265

How does Duke matchup? Nolan most likely will guard Mazzulla. Scheyer, however, gives up a lot of size to Butler and Ebanks. Singler and Thomas matchup very well with Butler and Ebanks, but then that leaves Scheyer to guard the much bigger Wellington Smith or Kevin Jones.

DevilHorns
03-30-2010, 11:59 PM
Data:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/compare?t1=west-virginia&t2=duke&t3=west-virginia&t4=duke&t3-type=3&t4-type=3

BlueDevilBaby
03-31-2010, 09:58 AM
Data:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/compare?t1=west-virginia&t2=duke&t3=west-virginia&t4=duke&t3-type=3&t4-type=3

A little scary because the teams look rather evenly matched. Hope that 5 point margin holds up.

jdj4duke
03-31-2010, 10:03 AM
At the 10:02 mark

Bluedog
03-31-2010, 10:39 AM
I had a dream last night....more like a nightmare. I was watching the Duke-West Virginia game in somebody's house with a bunch of people who could care less about the game and Duke was getting completely hosed on EVERY call. WVU visibly stepped out of bounds at least four times while retaining possession and Duke was getting pushed on loose balls for rebounds. It wasn't simply questionable calls, it was clearly bad calls time and time again going in WVU's favor. I was so incensed that I threw the coffee table (not like me at all) and had to leave the room everybody else was in to watch it alone. The torture continued on and on with our players getting hammered every time down the court. Despite this, we were keeping it close (even though I don't remember us making a basket in the dream), and the last I remember we were down 53-47 with 3 minutes remaining. Although we were visibly tired. Then I awoke. In any event, wanted to share so that it won't come true. And since it shows I'm way too obsessed and need to let it go (I'm dreaming about this, seriously?), I wanted to share with other people who at least won't judge me as much for it! :eek:

To get back on topic, I certainly think we can beat WVU, but it's not going to be easy. We should really pressure their ball handlers as they don't have many, and also force them to take outside shots as they're not a really good distance shooting team. ESPN showed a statistic of the worst season-long FG percentage for Final Four teams in history since 1985 and Butler and WVU of this year topped the list! At around 40%, I believe. Let's go Duke! This week is going too slowly!

DUKIECB
03-31-2010, 10:40 AM
Data:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/compare?t1=west-virginia&t2=duke&t3=west-virginia&t4=duke&t3-type=3&t4-type=3

That is almost astonishing at how evenly the two teams stack up statistically. Both teams do everything quite well which makes sense since they are both top 5 teams in the country. It seems to me that they both don't do any one thing particularly great, they both just do a ton of things very well. Neither seems to have an obvious weakness.

CDu
03-31-2010, 10:52 AM
That is almost astonishing at how evenly the two teams stack up statistically. Both teams do everything quite well which makes sense since they are both top 5 teams in the country. It seems to me that they both don't do any one thing particularly great, they both just do a ton of things very well. Neither seems to have an obvious weakness.

That's not entirely true. Both teams get offensive rebounds at an exceptionally high rate. We're the 7th best offensive rebounding team in the country. They're the second-best offensive rebounding team in the country. Also, we are exceptionally good at defending the 3pt shot - better than anyone else in the country at it.

Other than that, though, both teams do a lot of things fairly well. Neither team commits a ton of turnovers, and neither team forces a ton of turnovers. WVU is a slightly better rebounding team and a much better 2pt shooting team, while we are slightly better at almost everything else and much better at 3pt shooting.

On paper, we're the better team. We're more efficient offensively and more efficient defensively. But they don't play the games on paper. WVU will play hard, rebound well (especially offensively), and defend physically. It'll take a strong game from us to win.

JohnGalt
03-31-2010, 11:54 AM
This may have been said, but I just heard WVU has the lowest FG% for any Final Four team since the field was expanded...right around 40%.

A big key to this game will be Duke continuing its defensive intensity. LT and Zoubs will need to continue to play extraordinary help defense while keeping their hands straight up. Jumbo described this in his talking points. The refs seem to have realized that for all his awkwardness, Zoubs doesn't foul as much as they have suggested in the past. If this continues and the PlumTrees improve their help defense over the next week of practice, I think this FG% stat could really become a huge factor in the game...

CDu
03-31-2010, 12:31 PM
This may have been said, but I just heard WVU has the lowest FG% for any Final Four team since the field was expanded...right around 40%.

WVU's FG% is 43%. Ours is 44%.

Chard
03-31-2010, 12:32 PM
I'd like to see how the stats line up after the appearance of Super Zoubs.

Total season stats are a good window into overall performance but let's keep in mind that Zoubek has been playing like a madman recently and is a big piece of the Final Four run. What would the numbers look like if we compare the games since Zoubek has been back in the starting line up?

Also, don't count out Duke hitting some of those open shots that they've been missing all season long when not in CIS. The three-headed monster could go lights out over the next two games. They're due.

phaedrus
03-31-2010, 12:36 PM
How does Duke matchup? Nolan most likely will guard Mazzulla. Scheyer, however, gives up a lot of size to Butler and Ebanks. Singler and Thomas matchup very well with Butler and Ebanks, but then that leaves Scheyer to guard the much bigger Wellington Smith or Kevin Jones.

I seem to recall Scheyer doing an effective job on Thaddeus Young (although I may just be regurgitating Jumbo's Scheyer-advocacy), who is as big and probably quicker than Butler. Unless Butler uses his strength and size to post Scheyer up, which doesn't seem like a big part of his game, I think Scheyer can guard him pretty well.

MChambers
03-31-2010, 12:39 PM
This may have been said, but I just heard WVU has the lowest FG% for any Final Four team since the field was expanded...right around 40%.

A big key to this game will be Duke continuing its defensive intensity. LT and Zoubs will need to continue to play extraordinary help defense while keeping their hands straight up. Jumbo described this in his talking points. The refs seem to have realized that for all his awkwardness, Zoubs doesn't foul as much as they have suggested in the past. If this continues and the PlumTrees improve their help defense over the next week of practice, I think this FG% stat could really become a huge factor in the game...

Zoubs was called for quite a few fouls the last two games, some of the old touch variety. This worries me, especially because it's not clear with whom he matches up well on WV. (The same is true for the last game, if we should be so lucky as to play in it.)

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-31-2010, 01:33 PM
The team deports today, to go to Indy.

Indoor66
03-31-2010, 01:41 PM
The team deports today, to go to Indy.

Are they traveling by ship?

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-31-2010, 01:49 PM
Are they traveling by ship?

lmao WOW, good one

SharkD
03-31-2010, 01:55 PM
Are they traveling by ship?

They're taking a side-wheel steamer.

--

Kidding aside, it's probably for all the pre-FinalFour hoops (pun not intended) that the NCAA makes coaches and student-athletes jump through, like media availabilities, open and closed practices, etc.

BlueDevilBaby
03-31-2010, 01:55 PM
Teleporting.;)

Go Duke!

-bdbd
03-31-2010, 02:00 PM
Here's a look at WVU lineup:

Starters:

J. Mazzulla - Junior - 6’2 200
D. Butler - Senior - 6’7 230
D. Ebanks - Sophomore - 6’9 215
W. Smith - Senior - 6’7 245
K. Jones - Sophomore - 6’8 250

Bench:

C. Mitchell - Junior - 6’4 225
J. Flowers - Junior - 6’7 215
C. Thoroughman - Junior - 6’7 240
D. Kilicli - Freshman - 6’9 265

How does Duke matchup? Nolan most likely will guard Mazzulla. Scheyer, however, gives up a lot of size to Butler and Ebanks. Singler and Thomas matchup very well with Butler and Ebanks, but then that leaves Scheyer to guard the much bigger Wellington Smith or Kevin Jones.

I agree with the posters saying that this is a good, tough, even matchup of two teams that do a lot of things well, but none in stellar fashion. Both play with intensity and consistently hard Defense. It is VERY unlikely that either team can get away with a route - just too much intensity/consistency on the other side.

As for matchups, having played HS ball I've long believed that SIZE and SPEED are generally more important than height for D matchups. Giving up 3 inches isn't that big a deal, though much more than that can hamper shooting, etc. So I see Nolan on Mazulla, and Scheyer probably on Butler (yes, he gives up 3" and 30 lb, but that is the best option size-wise). Ebanks and Smith seem logically guarded by Kyle and Lance respectively. Lance plays more towards the interior , more so than Kyle -- though they could easily switch. Also expect lots of Plumlees time on the court to match up size-wise. I see Z on either Jones or Smith - whoever spends more time in the paint.

I like Houstondukie's discussion of matchups, but think we need to also look at matchups the other way - how do they defend Duke? Am guessing Jones (at 250 lbs) tries to match-up against - Z -- can be very challenging giving up some size AND 5 inches! From the KY game, I don't know if Mazulla has the speed to match Nolan Smith on D, but we will see. Butler will have a hard time keeping up with Scheyer's energizer-bunny routine, and Jon should get a lot of open looks outside, though cuts to the lane may be hampered by Butler's "length." Ebanks, on the surface seems to be a good candidate to guard Kyle - who could be hampered by his 6-9 length and decent speed.

This game seems more likely than some of the others in this tournament to end up in a chess match by the coaches. It should be a great matchup. :D I can't wait to see how Duke attacks the WV zone (need those outside shots! Zoubs can do a lot of distributing from free-throw line area here).

Anybody have any feeling about whetether the (neutral) crowd pulls for Duke or WV? :confused:


I hope everyone is enjoying this -- you can never count on havin this sort of special opportunity again. So drink it up. This is what we watch BB for as fans!

moonpie23
03-31-2010, 02:03 PM
Anybody have any feeling about whetether the (neutral) crowd pulls for Duke or WV? :confused:




NO ONE there other than duke fans will be rooting for duke...

CDu
03-31-2010, 02:09 PM
As for matchups, having played HS ball I've long believed that SIZE and SPEED are generally more important than height for D matchups. Giving up 3 inches isn't that big a deal, though much more than that can hamper shooting, etc. So I see Nolan on Mazulla, and Scheyer probably on Butler (yes, he gives up 3" and 30 lbs - but that is the best option size-wise).Ebanks and Smith seem logically guarded by Kyle and Lance respectively. Lance plays more towards the interior , more so than Kyle -- though they could easily switch. Also expect lots of Plumlees time on the court to match up size-wise.

I would expect Thomas to guard Jones rather than Smith. Smith is a pretty limited offensive player (though a capable perimeter shooter). Jones is one of WVU's best, most versatile players. I don't see Coach K subjecting Zoubek to that matchup.


I like Houstondukie's discussion of matchups, but think we need to also look at matchups the other way - how do they defend Duke? Am guessing Jones (at 250 lbs) tries to match-up against - Z -- can be very challenging giving up some size AND 5 inches! From the KY game, I don't know if Mazulla has the speed to match Nolan Smith on D, but we will see. Butler will have a hard time keeping up with Scheyer's energizer-bunny routine, and Jon should get a lot of open looks outside, though cuts to the lane may be hampered by Butler's "length."

Again, I think Smith will guard Zoubek. And I don't think Zoubek will be able to outmuscle either Jones or Smith. He may be able to play over the top of them (though Jones is a very good athlete). It's not a great matchup for Zoubek, but hopefully he can make it work.

And it remains to be seen how many open looks Scheyer gets. WVU will grab/hold/bump all day long. If the officials let that go, it may be difficult for Scheyer to get open looks for himself.

But yes - matchup issues go both ways.


Anybody have any feeling about whetether the (neutral) crowd pulls for Duke or WV? :confused:

I'm quite certain that the neutral crowd will cheer for WVU.

mehmattski
03-31-2010, 02:29 PM
Here's some things from the stats which can give us a clue about the matchups.

I think it's pretty clear that Nolan will guard Mazzula/The Ghost of Truck Bryant. I think it's equally clear that Singler will be guarding Da'Sean Butler. Among the starters, that leaves 6-9 Devin Ebanks, 6-7 Wellington Smith, and 6-8 Kevin Jones.

Here's the 2 pt and 3 pt percentages for each player:

Ebanks: 136-277 (2pt), 3-30 (3pt)
Smith: 55-96 (2pt), 36-102 (3pt)
Jones: 156-275 (2pt), 41-101 (3pt)

Clearly, the WV player that spends the most time under the basket is Ebanks, and that's who Zoubek/Miles will be matched up against. Smith spends an equal amount of time shooting 2s and 3s, and is the shortest of the group, and I think W. Smith will be Scheyer's assignment. As CDu pointed out above, Kevin Jones is a versatile player, who takes twice as many 2s as 3s. This seems like an ideal defensive matchup for Lance Thomas and Mason Plumlee.

To summarize, my expected defensive assignments:

N. Smith -> Mazzula
K. Singler -> Butler
J. Scheyer -> Smith/Mitchell (pretty much a pure long-range shooter off the bench)
L. Thomas/Mason -> Jones/Flowers (another wing player off the bench)
Zoubek/Miles -> Ebanks/Thoroughman (pure post player off the bench)

I think our defense has significant advantages at the C and PG positions, and matches up pretty well at the PF and SF positions. Jon Scheyer's defense could be the key to this game.

buckshot
03-31-2010, 02:40 PM
I had a dream last night....more like a nightmare. I was watching the Duke-West Virginia game in somebody's house with a bunch of people who could care less about the game and Duke was getting completely hosed on EVERY call. WVU visibly stepped out of bounds at least four times while retaining possession and Duke was getting pushed on loose balls for rebounds. It wasn't simply questionable calls, it was clearly bad calls time and time again going in WVU's favor. I was so incensed that I threw the coffee table (not like me at all) and had to leave the room everybody else was in to watch it alone. The torture continued on and on with our players getting hammered every time down the court. Despite this, we were keeping it close (even though I don't remember us making a basket in the dream), and the last I remember we were down 53-47 with 3 minutes remaining. Although we were visibly tired. Then I awoke.

This wasn't a dream. You were watching the UNC - Rhode Island game, and obviously confused UNC with WVU, except the quality of officiating in your dream sounds better.

CDu
03-31-2010, 02:42 PM
Here's some things from the stats which can give us a clue about the matchups.

I think it's pretty clear that Nolan will guard Mazzula/The Ghost of Truck Bryant. I think it's equally clear that Singler will be guarding Da'Sean Butler. Among the starters, that leaves 6-9 Devin Ebanks, 6-7 Wellington Smith, and 6-8 Kevin Jones.

Here's the 2 pt and 3 pt percentages for each player:

Ebanks: 136-277 (2pt), 3-30 (3pt)
Smith: 55-96 (2pt), 36-102 (3pt)
Jones: 156-275 (2pt), 41-101 (3pt)

Clearly, the WV player that spends the most time under the basket is Ebanks, and that's who Zoubek/Miles will be matched up against. Smith spends an equal amount of time shooting 2s and 3s, and is the shortest of the group, and I think W. Smith will be Scheyer's assignment. As CDu pointed out above, Kevin Jones is a versatile player, who takes twice as many 2s as 3s. This seems like an ideal defensive matchup for Lance Thomas and Mason Plumlee.

To summarize, my expected defensive assignments:

N. Smith -> Mazzula
K. Singler -> Butler
J. Scheyer -> Smith/Mitchell (pretty much a pure long-range shooter off the bench)
L. Thomas/Mason -> Jones/Flowers (another wing player off the bench)
Zoubek/Miles -> Ebanks/Thoroughman (pure post player off the bench)

I think our defense has significant advantages at the C and PG positions, and matches up pretty well at the PF and SF positions. Jon Scheyer's defense could be the key to this game.

I'm not sure it is as clean-cut as this. Ebanks is not a pure post player. He's more of a Stanley Robinson type of athletic forward. He's not a back-to-the basket type of player. He's probably too quick and explosive for Zoubek. Smith on the other hand is more plodding. He can shoot the three, but he doesn't take many shots period. I think Smith is the more natural matchup for Zoubek.

Basically, either way the matchup isn't spectacular for Zoubek. Either he has to guard Smith (who will pull him away from the basket) or Ebanks (who will also pull him away from the basket but try to drive by him or jump over him). Thoroughman and Kilicli are much better matchups for Zoubek, as they have neither the perimeter skills nor the athleticism to give Zoubek problems. So I say we just get WVU's bigs in foul trouble. :)

I'd flip basically, I'd go with this:

Smith - Mazzulla/Mitchell/Pepper
Scheyer - Butler/Flowers
Singler - Ebanks/Butler/Flowers
Thomas/Mason - Jones/Ebanks
Zoubek/Miles - Smith/Thoroughman/Kilicli

superdave
03-31-2010, 03:10 PM
I think all 4 teams come out playing too fast because of nerves. That's natural. We'll see who settles down first or if anyone makes a few big plays while the nerves are still settling.

But what about letdowns - any chance WV has one after knocking off Kentucky and shooting lights out from 3?

mehmattski
03-31-2010, 03:30 PM
I think all 4 teams come out playing too fast because of nerves. That's natural. We'll see who settles down first or if anyone makes a few big plays while the nerves are still settling.

But what about letdowns - any chance WV has one after knocking off Kentucky and shooting lights out from 3?

2010 National Leaders for Opponent 3PT% (http://kenpom.com/tmleaders.php?c=OppFG3Pct):


1 Duke[1] (ACC) 27.8
2 Coastal Carolina (BSth) 28.2
3 Temple[5] (A10) 28.5
4 St. Louis (A10) 28.8
5 Texas San Antonio (Slnd) 28.8
6 Wake Forest[9] (ACC) 29.2
7 Hofstra (CAA) 29.2
8 Clemson[7] (ACC) 29.4
9 Tennessee[6] (SEC) 29.7
10 Maryland Eastern Shore (MEAC) 29.8


So, in a word.... Yes. WV will not shoot the 3 like they did against KY (47th at 31.3% against).

ChicagoCrazy84
03-31-2010, 03:39 PM
I'm not sure it is as clean-cut as this. Ebanks is not a pure post player. He's more of a Stanley Robinson type of athletic forward. He's not a back-to-the basket type of player. He's probably too quick and explosive for Zoubek. Smith on the other hand is more plodding. He can shoot the three, but he doesn't take many shots period. I think Smith is the more natural matchup for Zoubek.

Basically, either way the matchup isn't spectacular for Zoubek. Either he has to guard Smith (who will pull him away from the basket) or Ebanks (who will also pull him away from the basket but try to drive by him or jump over him). Thoroughman and Kilicli are much better matchups for Zoubek, as they have neither the perimeter skills nor the athleticism to give Zoubek problems. So I say we just get WVU's bigs in foul trouble. :)

I'd flip basically, I'd go with this:

Smith - Mazzulla/Mitchell/Pepper
Scheyer - Butler/Flowers
Singler - Ebanks/Butler/Flowers
Thomas/Mason - Jones/Ebanks
Zoubek/Miles - Smith/Thoroughman/Kilicli


We're a very good defensive team when it comes to close-outs, recovery, and help D. Because of all that, I think we should utilize the double team and try to get Butler out of rhythm. I would say put Singler on Ebanks and utilize Lance as a hybird to help out with Butler. A poster earlier had said that a height difference isn't a big deal, it's the size. I completely agree which is why we should be conscientous of helping Scheyer. I guarded taller players in high school extensively as I am only 5'11 and it never bothered me one bit because I was always a bit bigger. Jon has long arms and could probably bother Butler out on the perimeter a bit, but if he gets the ball in the high post or something, he could do damage. I think getting Lance to help out could really pay dividends on getting him out of his comfort zone. Thoughts?

Neals384
03-31-2010, 03:46 PM
Did you watch the last few minutes of Saturday's game.? (Rhetorical question.) WV had almost no one who could handle the ball or shoot free throws. If nothing else, having Bryant for the end of the game, foot or no foot, might be helpful.

I would love to see a press anytime Mazzola goes to the bench.

CDu
03-31-2010, 05:11 PM
We're a very good defensive team when it comes to close-outs, recovery, and help D. Because of all that, I think we should utilize the double team and try to get Butler out of rhythm. I would say put Singler on Ebanks and utilize Lance as a hybird to help out with Butler. A poster earlier had said that a height difference isn't a big deal, it's the size. I completely agree which is why we should be conscientous of helping Scheyer. I guarded taller players in high school extensively as I am only 5'11 and it never bothered me one bit because I was always a bit bigger. Jon has long arms and could probably bother Butler out on the perimeter a bit, but if he gets the ball in the high post or something, he could do damage. I think getting Lance to help out could really pay dividends on getting him out of his comfort zone. Thoughts?

If Thomas is defending Jones, then he'd better not be doubling off of Jones. Jones is too versatile and clever a scorer to be left alone. I don't know that we'll see much doubling. Of course, I could be wrong about that. We'll see.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-31-2010, 05:46 PM
Does anyone see Ryan Kelly playing in this game?

Duke of Nashville
03-31-2010, 05:48 PM
Does anyone see Ryan Kelly playing in this game?

Foul Trouble Situations

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-31-2010, 05:57 PM
I think he may matchup well, that's all. Although i think it will depend most on his defense. He seems way to hesitant to shoot.

CDu
03-31-2010, 06:08 PM
Does anyone see Ryan Kelly playing in this game?

Aside from a spare minute or two to alleviate foul trouble, I doubt it. I don't think he'll supplant Thomas and Mason at the 4 spot due to the size and physicality of WVU's forwards, and I think Coach K will go with Singler as long as possible at the 3. WVU is just so physical, and Kelly is still fifth on the big man depth chart.

coldriver10
03-31-2010, 06:33 PM
From the Department of the Obvious:
Besides the importance of not turning the ball over and rebounding, I think staying out of foul trouble is of the utmost importance. We need to play smart.

CDu
03-31-2010, 06:35 PM
From the Department of the Obvious:
Besides the importance of not turning the ball over and rebounding, I think staying out of foul trouble is of the utmost importance. We need to play smart.

To add to the obvious, it wouldn't hurt to get them in foul trouble (especially Jones, Butler, and Mazzulla).

And further to add to the obvious, it'd be nice if we shot really well from the perimeter.

JayBean
03-31-2010, 07:15 PM
To add to the obvious, it wouldn't hurt to get them in foul trouble (especially Jones, Butler, and Mazzulla).

And further to add to the obvious, it'd be nice if we shot really well from the perimeter.

Oh, and it would be swell if, at the end of the game, we have more points than they do .

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-31-2010, 07:16 PM
Oh, and it would be swell if, at the end of the game, we have more points than they do .

That's all i'm really hoping for.

NSDukeFan
03-31-2010, 07:17 PM
I would expect Thomas to guard Jones rather than Smith. Smith is a pretty limited offensive player (though a capable perimeter shooter). Jones is one of WVU's best, most versatile players. I don't see Coach K subjecting Zoubek to that matchup.



Again, I think Smith will guard Zoubek. And I don't think Zoubek will be able to outmuscle either Jones or Smith. He may be able to play over the top of them (though Jones is a very good athlete). It's not a great matchup for Zoubek, but hopefully he can make it work.

And it remains to be seen how many open looks Scheyer gets. WVU will grab/hold/bump all day long. If the officials let that go, it may be difficult for Scheyer to get open looks for himself.

But yes - matchup issues go both ways.



I'm quite certain that the neutral crowd will cheer for WVU.

If Smith is fairly limited offensively, wouldn't this be an ok matchup for Zoubek? He seems to be able to do a pretty good job contesting perimeter shots (I thought he contested J. Johnson's shots reasonably well) and is solid inside. I would worry more if he were guarding someone who can take the ball to the basket, like Johnson or Udoh, and that isn't my impression of Smith? Am I mistaken?
I think WVU is going to have trouble scoring on Duke's starters in the halfcourt, (assuming our guys stay out of foul trouble) but am very worried about them getting points off offensive rebounds. I also think WVU will also make it tough for Duke to score and keep it a low scoring affair. I think if we get hot from 3-point land, we could create a bit of separation, but otherwise I see a close, grind-it-out affair. My other major concern is again vs. their defense. I am a little bit worried that we will see Purdue first half 2.0, except against a team that is not overmatched size-wise. I don't know if they would have the quickness to hand-check and bump on the perimeter, but I just think of Big East toughness (though that hasn't amounted to much in the tourney) and might they disrupt our offense and create a few turnovers that way? I hope not. Should be exciting.

MChambers
03-31-2010, 07:37 PM
If Smith is fairly limited offensively, wouldn't this be an ok matchup for Zoubek? He seems to be able to do a pretty good job contesting perimeter shots (I thought he contested J. Johnson's shots reasonably well) and is solid inside. I would worry more if he were guarding someone who can take the ball to the basket, like Johnson or Udoh, and that isn't my impression of Smith? Am I mistaken?
I think WVU is going to have trouble scoring on Duke's starters in the halfcourt, (assuming our guys stay out of foul trouble) but am very worried about them getting points off offensive rebounds. I also think WVU will also make it tough for Duke to score and keep it a low scoring affair. I think if we get hot from 3-point land, we could create a bit of separation, but otherwise I see a close, grind-it-out affair. My other major concern is again vs. their defense. I am a little bit worried that we will see Purdue first half 2.0, except against a team that is not overmatched size-wise. I don't know if they would have the quickness to hand-check and bump on the perimeter, but I just think of Big East toughness (though that hasn't amounted to much in the tourney) and might they disrupt our offense and create a few turnovers that way? I hope not. Should be exciting.

Smith can shoot the 3 decently, so Zoubs would have to respect this, and can't help out on drives. That's one concern. Better than him trying to cover someone driving to the basket, as you say, but it's not perfect.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-31-2010, 07:41 PM
Smith can shoot the 3 decently,

I think he has the highest percentage on the team, so I would say it's more than just decently.

CDu
03-31-2010, 07:44 PM
Smith can shoot the 3 decently, so Zoubs would have to respect this, and can't help out on drives. That's one concern. Better than him trying to cover someone driving to the basket, as you say, but it's not perfect.

Exactly. I definitely think Smith is the best matchup for Zoubek among the WVU starters, but it's not an ideal matchup for him.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-31-2010, 07:46 PM
I think he has the highest percentage on the team, so I would say it's more than just decently.

Opps I thought you meant the smith on our team sorry.

CDu
03-31-2010, 07:46 PM
I think he has the highest percentage on the team, so I would say it's more than just decently.

He shoots 35.3%. That's not that great. He's a decent shooter, and certainly capable of hitting a 3 if left open. For the record, Jones is the best 3pt shooter on the team (40.6%). Butler (35.7%) is also slightly better.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-31-2010, 07:49 PM
He shoots 35.3%. That's not that great. He's a decent shooter, and certainly capable of hitting a 3 if left open. For the record, Jones is the best 3pt shooter on the team (40.6%). Butler (35.7%) is also slightly better.

I thought you were talking about the smith on Duke, sorry my mistake.

LSanders
03-31-2010, 08:09 PM
Rick Reilly's take ...


Do you realize that they pipe the play-by-play of West Virginia games down into the coal mines now?

Awww ... :rolleyes:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5040010



I get why some people love Huggy Bear, but I'm just never going to be one of them.

And when they put him in the Hall of Fame, I think I'm going to hurl.

MChambers
03-31-2010, 08:49 PM
Opps I thought you meant the smith on our team sorry.

Our Smitty is an excellent 3 point shooter. Their Smith is not as good as our Smith.

jipops
03-31-2010, 09:37 PM
Two things really stick out from the box scores of WVU's big wins this season.
1. They get to the ft line a lot and make a very good percentage as a team.
2. They rebound like demons. As a team they seem to grab everything.

The mountaineers put a lot of length out there on the floor and use it to their benefit on defense as well as the boards. I think what really makes them scary is that you can shut down a guy like Butler into a horrible % but 3 or 4 guys step in to fill it up and create issues defensively.

Another note, I feel like they'll give Lance some space at the top of the lane in order to provide help in other areas of the floor. Lance absolutely has to be able to hit that shot, one which he has not been hitting lately. On the other side Lance is probably going to be matched up with Ebanks. Lance cannot afford to put himself in foul trouble in this one. If Ebanks gets loose it opens up a little more offense for wvu. So I guess I'm feeling like Lance has a huge role in this one.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-01-2010, 03:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbu8HgV2w0

Neals384
04-01-2010, 12:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbu8HgV2w0

This is video after the buzzer of the Baylor game. And on the plane.

wiscodevil
04-01-2010, 01:09 PM
We rebound well. Everyone runs well, save Zoubek.

I think against WVa, the less they are in their half court D, the better. We have Nolan and Scheyer to drive to the hoop, Nolan, Singler, Scheyer, Dawkins to spot up, Singler an Thomas and the Plumlees to finish.

Any chance we get out and run 'em out of the gym?

CDu
04-01-2010, 02:14 PM
We rebound well. Everyone runs well, save Zoubek.

I think against WVa, the less they are in their half court D, the better. We have Nolan and Scheyer to drive to the hoop, Nolan, Singler, Scheyer, Dawkins to spot up, Singler an Thomas and the Plumlees to finish.

Any chance we get out and run 'em out of the gym?

Doubt it. We haven't been a running team all year. Coach K usually likes to play to our strengths (which this year has been our half court offense and half court defense). Running would take us out of our half court defense.

cato
04-01-2010, 02:15 PM
Any chance we get out and run 'em out of the gym?

No. *

juise
04-01-2010, 02:20 PM
Does anyone know if the Bob Harris (Duke ISP) broadcast of the semifinal will be on XM/Sirius? I was able to listen to the ACC tournament seminfinal on XM, but haven't checked to see if they broadcast NCAAT games.

I have a prior commitment on Saturday evening and am hoping to be able to stay connected with the game.

-jk
04-01-2010, 02:57 PM
Does anyone know if the Bob Harris (Duke ISP) broadcast of the semifinal will be on XM/Sirius? I was able to listen to the ACC tournament seminfinal on XM, but haven't checked to see if they broadcast NCAAT games.

I have a prior commitment on Saturday evening and am hoping to be able to stay connected with the game.

They'll likely have the westwood one broadcast again.

-jk

CrazieDUMB
04-01-2010, 03:01 PM
I have to say, of the three other teams left in the tournament, WVa is a team I’d like to play the least. Here’s why:

1. No offensive rebounding advantage. The mountaineers rebound on the offensive glass just as well as we do (even a little bit better), so we won’t be able to offset a bad shooting night by getting more attempts.

2. The 1-3-1 zone. Because I find it contemptible that I’m at work on such a beautiful day, I spent all day researching how they do it. First of all, I don’t like the fact that every person on their team is an interchangeable defender. Our offense usually prospers when we set enough screens to create the mismatch we want. We won’t be able to do that against this team. Secondly, their zone will force a lot of traps on the wings. I think we can agree that aside from Smith, Scheyer and Singler are really not the best ball handlers. I’m going to trust that they’ll be smart enough to keep enough space to keep from getting trapped on the wing, but it’s going to be difficult to break them down if they get caught deep. On the positive side, the best way to break this zone is to keep the ball moving and make the man under the basket guard both baseline corners. I think we’re tall enough to get some long passes going to open things up, but it will be difficult. Another positive thing is that K is a master teacher and those Duke kids are hella smart – expect total focus in practice and at least a solid game plan. They wont be surprised (in this way, I’m glad that we play West Virginia before potentially playing one of the other teams). Finally, we just played 40 minutes of zone against Baylor, so they’re used to pulling people out of position and finding the holes. Thomas and Zou also did a great job of accepting the ball at the high post and distributing.

3. West Virginia offense. According to Jay Bilas, the moonshine brewers run a "five-out, open post, motion offense. It is a ‘cut and fill’ offense that features diagonal cuts, back cuts, slips, shuffle cuts, curls, flex cuts, duck-ins and screen-for-the-screener action.” Obviously, I’m having nightmares about the Georgetown game. Our main defense relies on guarding the passing lanes and wings and help down under. If they pull our guys out of position down low, it leads to a lot of easy buckets off cuts to the basket. Think of an even worse version of the oft-discussed 1-in 4-out that seems to kill us. In this regard, I can really see the Plumlees getting more time than the Zoukeeper. Additionally, Sir Lance will have to have the best defensive game of his career and keep them off the glass.

Can we beat them? Absolutely. Never underestimate K in a rematch, nevermind a rematch against a team that ripped us in the postgame interviews. In fact, FWIW KenPom gives us a 70% chance of winning this game. I just hope the matchup factor doesn’t play in too heavily and we can run our game the way we like to play.

Billy Dat
04-01-2010, 03:16 PM
This KenPom preview was linked from the "dork poll" thread and it certainly is worth reading.

http://basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1046

Here's the concluding paragraph:

"If you watch enough college hoops, you know that there are plenty of games that defy expectation. But it seems clear what the expectation for this game should be: A lot of two-point misses and offensive boards. One thing I wouldn’t expect is for West Virginia to make 10-of-23 three-pointers as they did against Kentucky. They likely won’t attempt that many or be as accurate against Duke’s legendary three-point defense. In a similar vein, it’s unlikely that Duke will make 48 percent of its three-point attempts as it did against Baylor. But regardless of how difficult it is for each offense to make shots, don’t be surprised when accounting for the pace of game (which should be slow) if we see a pretty even battle between offense and defense on both ends."

Kewlswim
04-01-2010, 03:25 PM
Hi,

I think people have bought in to the idea that Duke is "unathletic" (is that even a word?) and that WVU will cause either MSU or Buttler more problems. People don't care what the media is saying, we've bought them off. People don't care what the statistics say, we've managed to fudge those. Perception is still that we have a team of nonathletic kids who win by luck and referee intimidation.

Thus, if MSU wins the first game they won't want to play WVU and the same goes for Butler. Furthermore, the team that loses will have sad fans who probably won't root much at all. I think we have a really good chance of not having a lot of hate that day.

APRIL FOOLS

No way, people would rather Duke lose even if it meant their team would never make it to a FF. We are that hated. Too bad. Their loss.

I LOVE DUKE and that is no April Fool.

GO DUKE!

dukelifer
04-01-2010, 04:10 PM
We rebound well. Everyone runs well, save Zoubek.

I think against WVa, the less they are in their half court D, the better. We have Nolan and Scheyer to drive to the hoop, Nolan, Singler, Scheyer, Dawkins to spot up, Singler an Thomas and the Plumlees to finish.

Any chance we get out and run 'em out of the gym?

More likely to shoot 'em out of the gym than run 'em out of the gym.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-01-2010, 05:32 PM
COACH K is on PTI today.

Kedsy
04-01-2010, 06:20 PM
1. No offensive rebounding advantage. The mountaineers rebound on the offensive glass just as well as we do (even a little bit better), so we won’t be able to offset a bad shooting night by getting more attempts.

Sure we will. Whether we can offset our relatively low shooting percentage with second chance points is a function of our offensive rebounding and our opponent's defensive rebounding, which is not a particular strength of West Virginia's. That part should be fine.

The issue is that West Virginia is also an outstanding offensive rebounding team, which means they can offset their low shooting percentage with good offensive rebounding, just like we will. So if we want to win we have to play better defense than they do and rebound on both ends, not just the offensive side.

Spam Filter
04-01-2010, 07:22 PM
One way to off set WV's offensive rebounding off misses is to give them fewer shots by forcing turnovers.

WV is not a particularly good ball handling team and add that to them missing one of their primary ball handlers and you have a recipe for a lot of turnovers.

The turnover battle is where I think the game will be won,

rthomas
04-01-2010, 09:49 PM
As many of you know, I’m a die hard Dukie. I live and die Blue. I was at Duke from the end of Dawkins to Wojo. The last game I went to was Pete Gaudet’s first game where Virginia came back from twenty down to beat us. I took my young son to that game. Wojo, Capel, Langdon, Collins and Parks. And I was devastated.

I came to WVU as an assistant prof in 95 and now 15 years later I’m a professor and chair of my department. I remain a Dukie to this day. I love Duke, what it gave to me, and I still have friends on the faculty and on campus. I stayed connected by joining DBR in the early days soon after moving to WVU in 95 or 96 – I can’t remember exactly when I found this site. I still have a lot of Dukie stuff in my office including a green shirt from the debacle in 2008 (IIRC).

This year WVU and Duke play in the final four. Lucky me, I have a team in the final game. I think it probably feels to me like when Coach K plays one of his offspring, like Missouri against Quinn in 2001.

Our Saturday game is extremely tough for me. I love the Duke team – I’ve watched every game; I love those guys. I love the way they have grown this year. I love the way they have been coached.

But I have to say, I love the way the WVU team has played too. I love our team at WVU. They have grown so much over this year.

I know that many of you are still bitter over the WVU – Duke game a couple years ago. Believe it or not I was too. But it’s another year. I'm not trying to sway you to love WVU's team or coach or WV. I am saying this is a hugely important game for WVU and for WV.

It’s going to be a tough game for me. Sucks for me but win or lose either team, I will always be a Dukie. And I am an Mountaineer. And I have a team in the finals.

FWIW, I favor Duke in this game from the possible matchups – I see no match for Smith. Or Zoubek. But on the other hand I see no match for the length of WVU’s 4 forwards or, of course, Da, who has won so many games for us with his uncanny shooting ability in the big games.

Coach K: "We're two teams that have gotten this far without shooting it well," Krzyzewski said. "I think it makes both of us as teams understand if we have a chance to win, we've got to play every possession on the defensive end and rebound. Although we play our defense in a little bit different manner, I think the motivation to play it, the motivation to rebound is the same."

Good luck!

papa whiskey
04-02-2010, 05:08 AM
Is it just me or does it seem like we are not making a big enough deal out of the fact Nolan Smith is trying to win a National Championship in the same city as his father did 30 years later? It just seems like it would be an all time great story if it were to happen.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-02-2010, 05:52 AM
Is it just me or does it seem like we are not making a big enough deal out of the fact Nolan Smith is trying to win a National Championship in the same city as his father did 30 years later? It just seems like it would be an all time great story if it were to happen.

Somewhat, but it's one of those things you bring up after you've one. Then you say something like that, I wouldn't want to put that on him before, just for the simply fact of a chance of failure is possible.

papa whiskey
04-02-2010, 06:07 AM
Somewhat, but it's one of those things you bring up after you've one. Then you say something like that, I wouldn't want to put that on him before, just for the simply fact of a chance of failure is possible.

I agree that the chance of failure is possible. However, in this case I feel that the journey far outweighs any failure. Win or lose this story will be one of the first things I will always from this season and this tournament.

slower
04-02-2010, 08:45 AM
More likely to shoot 'em out of the gym than run 'em out of the gym.

I don't think we can ANYTHING 'em out of the gym. But, of course, I'm a pessimist. ;)

I'm disturbed that a lot of folks seem to think that this is ours to lose. Not a good karma move, IMO. After beating Baylor, there seems to have been an attitude shift. I actually liked feeling like an underdog, and I hope the players are staying just as hungry and focused (and maybe still a little bit pissed off) as they have been. I don't want there to be ANY overconfidence involved - I want them to claw and fight for EVERY second of this game and, hopefully, the next.

roywhite
04-02-2010, 09:26 AM
I watched the Duke--Baylor replay last night and am feeling more confident going into the weekend. Baylor had a number of features that made them a challenging opponent:
Good overall length and quickness
A shotblocker Utoh who had a terrific game
A versatile, talented big guard Dunn who could score
Good coaching
Major local fan support (not quite a home game, but similar)
They led for parts of the game

Still, Duke just kept coming...offensive rebounds, crucial 3-point shots, good defense, important contributions from the bench, and great spirit...this on a night where Kyle goes scoreless from the field.

Not to devalue WVU, but I just don't see them having all of these advantages, and I doubt Singler gets blanked.

Duke will be ready and has an excellent chance to win Saturday.

whereinthehellami
04-02-2010, 09:28 AM
Has there been any word on the status of Singler's wrist?

airowe
04-02-2010, 09:59 AM
Has there been any word on the status of Singler's wrist?

A poster here relayed the message that "Kyle is the last player you need to worry about."

I'm sure he'll chime in if he feels the need, but I don't believe we have anything to worry about wrt Singler.

CDu
04-02-2010, 10:13 AM
I watched the Duke--Baylor replay last night and am feeling more confident going into the weekend. Baylor had a number of features that made them a challenging opponent:
Good overall length and quickness
A shotblocker Utoh who had a terrific game
A versatile, talented big guard Dunn who could score
Good coaching
Major local fan support (not quite a home game, but similar)
They led for parts of the game

Still, Duke just kept coming...offensive rebounds, crucial 3-point shots, good defense, important contributions from the bench, and great spirit...this on a night where Kyle goes scoreless from the field.

Not to devalue WVU, but I just don't see them having all of these advantages, and I doubt Singler gets blanked.

Duke will be ready and has an excellent chance to win Saturday.

WVU is an entirely different style of team, presenting an entirely different set of challenges. So of course they won't have advantages in shotblocking, length/quickness, or "home-court" advantage.

You've identified some areas in which Baylor is superior to WVU, but you've ignored what WVU has that Baylor doesn't have:
Versatility to switch on ball screens at virtually any position
Ability to spread the floor on offense with all five players
A truly stout defense (they're better than Baylor defensively)
Ability to play tough man-to-man or zone defense

In addition, WVU definitely does have a versatile, talented big guard who can score (Butler), and they do have good coaching.

I do not think this will be an easier game than the Baylor game. WVU is a tough, tough, well-coached, and talented team. Winning this will be just as tough as beating Baylor. Duke certainly has an excellent chance of winning on Saturday, just like we had an excellent chance of winning against Baylor.

OldPhiKap
04-02-2010, 10:51 AM
A poster here relayed the message that "Kyle is the last player you need to worry about."



So now we need to worry about everyone else?!?!? NOW I'm freaking!!!!


;>)

Devil07
04-02-2010, 11:22 AM
A poster here relayed the message that "Kyle is the last player you need to worry about."

I'm sure he'll chime in if he feels the need, but I don't believe we have anything to worry about wrt Singler.

That's very good to hear. I also just noticed this picture on Duke Blue Planet and all of that coloration is definitely gone. It's just a picture, but after the one from the net cutting this is definitely a more encouraging sight.
http://www.blueplanetshots.com/2009-10/NCAA-Tournament/Thursday-in-Indy/11697908_vfqRQ#825421158_ZLbve
http://www.blueplanetshots.com/2009-10/NCAA-Tournament/Thursday-in-Indy/11697908_vfqRQ#825421158_ZLbve

theAlaskanBear
04-02-2010, 11:30 AM
I'll go on record as saying I like this matchup A LOT better than Baylor. That's not to say we will win or lose, but the player matchups favor Duke.

1. WVU is smaller than Duke, and they play the zone, which sometimes leads to defensive rebounding lapses. Cousins was abusing WVU for parts of the game.

2. WVU has one go to guy, Duke has three. Btw, the last year we had 3x 600-point scorers was 2001.

3. WVU is playing without their starting PG. Yes, Mazzulla had a great game, but that was the game of his life, and Kentucky was not prepared for him.

Basically, my view is that WVU exposed a heartless, inexperienced Kentucky team by playing the GAME OF THEIR LIFE after their PG went down, when Kentucky expected them to rollover and die (thy had no clue how to play defense (exhibit A the Mazzulla drives). WVU will likely NOT hit that INSANE barrage of threes in the first half, that prevented the game form becoming a blowout.

Further: Duke will have a week to prepare for that zone and this game. One player that Duke will have to pay especial attention to is Jones. He seems to hit big shots that gets everyone fired up. Plus, he is an inside/outside presence, while Ebanks struggles from the perimeter.

I am cautiously optimistic. Gotta make shots, and play good team defense!

Duvall
04-02-2010, 11:41 AM
I'll go on record as saying I like this matchup A LOT better than Baylor. That's not to say we will win or lose, but the player matchups favor Duke.

1. WVU is smaller than Duke, and they play the zone, which sometimes leads to defensive rebounding lapses. Cousins was abusing WVU for parts of the game.


WVU played zone against Kentucky. Kentucky had John Wall and Demarcus Cousins. Against Duke they'll probably play man, and play it well.

And WVU is only smaller than Duke in the post.

slower
04-02-2010, 11:45 AM
WVU played zone against Kentucky. Kentucky had John Wall and Demarcus Cousins. Against Duke they'll probably play man, and play it well.

And WVU is only smaller than Duke in the post.

EXACTLY. So, at the positions manned by our Big 3, WVU is TALLER, with great athletes.

This is what I'm afraid of. People are acting like this will be EASIER than Baylor, when I'm thinking it's going to be even harder.

Fortunately, K and the coaches and players are (hopefully) on the case and will not fall victim to overconfidence or lack of focus.

Remember, folks, WVU just beat the team that scared the crap out of most of us.

InSpades
04-02-2010, 11:56 AM
Kentucky shot 4 of 32 (12.5%) from 3-point land, 16 of 29 (55%) from the line, turned the ball over 16 times and lost by 7. Obviously Duke is not Kentucky and things will be very different, but I have a very good feeling about this game. WV also gave up 22 offensive rebounds to Kentucky.

It will be interesting to see if WV goes primarily with the zone against Duke. Giving up lots of 3s and lots of offensive rebounds (both outcomes of playing zone) is potentially a recipe for disaster.

I'm also interested to see if Nolan Smith can keep up his recent habit of dominating his matchup. He was matched up against much more accomplished players (Pac-10 PotY and a 2nd team All-Big 12 selection) in his past 2 games. Can Duke pressure WV into turnovers? Can Nolan get Mazzulla into foul trouble?

CDu
04-02-2010, 12:07 PM
WVU played zone against Kentucky. Kentucky had John Wall and Demarcus Cousins. Against Duke they'll probably play man, and play it well.

Dead on. That's the thing about WVU defensively. They are willing and able to play very tough man defense and very tough zone defense. They played zone against Kentucky because they didn't think UK could shoot. They were right. They know we can shoot. Further, they are as bigger and quicker at the 2/3 than we are. I would expect to see a lot more man-to-man from WVU against us. They'll hope that Mazzulla can stay in front of Smith using his strength, and hope that the size/quickness edge of Butler and Ebanks will give Scheyer and Singler trouble.

How/what WVU did against Kentucky is irrelevant to the discussion of how/what they'll do against us. We play a completely different style than Kentucky, and as such WVU will almost certainly defend in a different way. Similarly, how we did against Baylor is irrelevant to the discussion of how we'll do against WVU, because WVU is a completely different type of opponent.


And WVU is only smaller than Duke in the post.

True. And really, they're only noticeably smaller at one of the post spots. Jones is bigger than Thomas and only a little shorter than Mason.

theAlaskanBear
04-02-2010, 12:08 PM
EXACTLY. So, at the positions manned by our Big 3, WVU is TALLER, with great athletes.

This is what I'm afraid of. People are acting like this will be EASIER than Baylor, when I'm thinking it's going to be even harder.

Fortunately, K and the coaches and players are (hopefully) on the case and will not fall victim to overconfidence or lack of focus.

Remember, folks, WVU just beat the team that scared the crap out of most of us.

Yeah, but did you watch that game? Kentucky played like crap, with minimal D and bad shooting, and WVU played one of the strangest and luckiest games I have ever seen.

Listen, I'm not saying Duke WILL win against WVU. Anything can happen in a game, Duke could get blown out by 20, but its not likely. I am saying that I like our chances.

I realize that some of us must live every game like the last, with all the worries and pent up anxiety. That is what being a fan is about! And that the negatives of knowing so well the strengths and weaknesses of the team makes one need to be pessimistic.

I just dont see the point. I like this matchup better than Baylor, because we shouldn't be so hopelessly neutralized inside around the basket., and WVU doesnt shoot as well as Baylor does. My confidence has NOTHING TO DO with the teams preparation for the WVU game or them losing focus.

I go into every game knowing that Duke CAN win. Duke is that good this year. Whether they win or not, that is up to who makes the plays on the court. I am not going to turn my hair white with this game, or let "karma-concerned" treatment of WVU cloud my ability to analyze basketball.

CDu
04-02-2010, 12:09 PM
I'm also interested to see if Nolan Smith can keep up his recent habit of dominating his matchup. He was matched up against much more accomplished players (Pac-10 PotY and a 2nd team All-Big 12 selection) in his past 2 games. Can Duke pressure WV into turnovers? Can Nolan get Mazzulla into foul trouble?

This is a crucial matchup for us to win. Butler/Scheyer and Ebanks/Singler are much tougher matchups for us. We can win there too, but we REALLY need Smith to assert himself over Mazzulla. He's quicker than Mazzulla, he's a better shooter than Mazzulla, and overall he's just a better player than Mazzulla. He needs to be able to take Mazzulla out of the game defensively, and on offense he needs to win the matchup and create points for us.

MChambers
04-02-2010, 12:49 PM
I think we need to shoot decently from outside and have an edge in turnovers. Those are two areas in which we are stronger (on both sides of the ball) than WVa. Based on statistics, we also should shoot more free throws, but I'm less sure that will actually happen.

I'd also like to see Zoubek take a few shots down low. He'll have a nice height advantage the rest of the season and it would be good to make the other teams respect his hook shots, etc.

I doubt we'll see much zone from WVa. I expect Huggins to try it, just to change things up once or twice, but I'd be surprised if he stays with it very long.

whereinthehellami
04-02-2010, 01:18 PM
WVU is a tough team with good chemistry. They play with discipline and embrace Huggins style of "grind it" basketball. They also have the most clutch player in the NCAAs on their team in Butler. With that said, I think Duke matches up well with the above and has an edge in shooting and depth. It should be ugly, yet a good game.

I think the wildcard will be how the game is offciated. Both teams like to play physical and will be testing the officals early to see what they can get away with. Early foul trouble to one of the big three on either team will be huge.

CDu
04-02-2010, 01:23 PM
I go into every game knowing that Duke CAN win. Duke is that good this year. Whether they win or not, that is up to who makes the plays on the court. I am not going to turn my hair white with this game, or let "karma-concerned" treatment of WVU cloud my ability to analyze basketball.

Of course Duke CAN win. I don't think anybody who is analyzing this says that Duke can't win. The beef some of us had was with the idea that WVU is a better matchup because they're smaller and play zone. Well, they probably won't play much zone against us, and they're really only smaller at one spot on the floor (center). Everywhere else, they're either about the same size or bigger.

There is a very good chance we'll win. Heck, we're favored to win. But WVU presents so real matchup problems for us. We also present problems for them. Hopefully, we are able to exploit their weaknesses more than they are able to utilize their advantages.

arydolphin
04-02-2010, 01:32 PM
I'm watching the open practice for WVU on CBS College Sports right now. Truck Bryant is out on the court shooting jumpers, but he's not doing any running at all, and when he lands after shooting the jumpers, he's trying to land on his left foot to try to take pressure off of his right foot. I'd be shocked if he plays tomorrow. They just had an interview with one of WVU's team doctors, and he said that it was doubtful for Bryant to play because he hasn't made it through a full practice yet.

throatybeard
04-02-2010, 02:09 PM
I would love to see a press anytime Mazzola goes to the bench.

Or as the Native Americans called him, Maize.

Clipsfan
04-02-2010, 02:51 PM
I'm not normally the type to link to Doug Gottlieb, but I found the following article more on point in terms of the teams than most of what I've read out there. It's amazing how many people still refer to Duke as soft and under-sized - just shows that they don't watch Duke play and haven't bothered to look at the players.

The following has some good and some bad insights into the two teams (I know Duke a whole lot better) but is the best I've seen so far. It's an ESPN insider article:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog?name=ncbexperts&id=5044480

It's probably decent because it's not Doug coming up with it, but rather Baylor or some ACC team's staff.

slower
04-02-2010, 02:53 PM
I'm not normally the type to link to Doug Gottlieb, but I found the following article more on point in terms of the teams than most of what I've read out there. It's amazing how many people still refer to Duke as soft and under-sized - just shows that they don't watch Duke play and haven't bothered to look at the players.

The following has some good and some bad insights into the two teams (I know Duke a whole lot better) but is the best I've seen so far. It's an ESPN insider article:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog?name=ncbexperts&id=5044480

It's probably decent because it's not Doug coming up with it, but rather Baylor or some ACC team's staff.

What good does it do to link to this page if we (non-insiders) can't read any of it?

cato
04-02-2010, 02:55 PM
What good does it do to link to this page if we (non-insiders) can't read any of it?

Maybe people who are insiders want to read it?

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-02-2010, 02:56 PM
They can write all the articles they want but at the end of the day, we need to win.

slower
04-02-2010, 02:57 PM
Maybe people who are insiders want to read it?

Sorry, hadn't thought of that (obviously). Apologies.

soccerstud2210
04-02-2010, 03:02 PM
I think the wildcard will be how the game is offciated. Both teams like to play physical and will be testing the officals early to see what they can get away with. Early foul trouble to one of the big three on either team will be huge.

i.e. singler against baylor. i really think those two early fouls hurt his flow and shooting. he was never really able to get into things

whereinthehellami
04-02-2010, 04:35 PM
Duke needs to play really good help defense with their normal excellent communication. I hope not to see any uncontested layups like WVU got against UK who was broken down repeatedly. Wall got undressed by Mazulla and WVU on all kinds of screens. Part of the probelm for UK IMO was that you have to want to keep with your man and really fight thru those screens. I don't think that the UK freshman were ready for that much dirty work.

CDu
04-02-2010, 04:47 PM
Duke needs to play really good help defense with their normal excellent communication. I hope not to see any uncontested layups like WVU got against UK who was broken down repeatedly. Wall got undressed by Mazulla and WVU on all kinds of screens. Part of the probelm for UK IMO was that you have to want to keep with your man and really fight thru those screens. I don't think that the UK freshman were ready for that much dirty work.

That's a great description. WVU just keeps screening and cutting, screening and cutting. They have a bunch of versatile guys who just work really hard to score points. They don't shoot well, but their continuous screens/cuts get people out of position. You lose a guy and you're either toast for a pass and layup or a rebound and putback.

At first glance, nothing about WVU is impressive. They don't shoot well, they don't beat you off the dribble, they don't blow you away with transition buckets, and they don't have any great/flashy passers. But they just keep running screens and cuts, and they hope to catch you out of position at some point. And when they miss, they pound the glass.

As you said, it will take great communication, hard work, focus, and good fortune to contain their offense. Our guys have been up to nearly every challenge this year. Hopefully they can do it again tomorrow night.

whereinthehellami
04-02-2010, 05:00 PM
In a sense I feel that the team that works the hardest tomorrow night will win. I like that for Duke. All of the interviews seem to praise WVU for their blue collar approach. Thats nice and all but it's not like Duke doesn't work, so its not really an advantage for WVU in this game. Duke wants this game and I think they will work themselves to victory.

Spam Filter
04-02-2010, 05:11 PM
I don't think it was the UK freshmen not willing to work hard.

I think it was that they were so frustrated by their inability to knock down open 3s that it made them lose focus on defense.

That was where their inexperience and the lack of being battle tested showed in their lack of poise.

weezie
04-02-2010, 05:31 PM
It's a madhouse downtown! 35K Butler fans showed up for the open practice to cheer the bulldog. Bars/restaurants jammed.

Haven't seen too many Dukies yet. It's a butler/wv invasion.

BigZ
04-02-2010, 05:44 PM
Anyone know what former Devils will be at the game? Since it is in Indy are Josh, Dahntay, and Mike going to be there?

DevilHorns
04-02-2010, 06:47 PM
How are the final 4 tickets distributed? Woody Paige on Around the Horn said Butler would not have a "home field advantage" since they aren't playing in Butler's home arena (actually a stadium that MSU has played in more times) and that the tickets are divided evenly to all the sports sections.

Is this true?

CDu
04-02-2010, 07:00 PM
How are the final 4 tickets distributed? Woody Paige on Around the Horn said Butler would not have a "home field advantage" since they aren't playing in Butler's home arena (actually a stadium that MSU has played in more times) and that the tickets are divided evenly to all the sports sections.

Is this true?

I believe it is true that each school gets an equal allotment of tickets. But that makes up only a relatively small percentage of the total tickets. The rest are sold to the general public. It is these tickets that will be bought up (presumably) by the Butler fans. And note that ticket scalping is almost certainly done in high volume. Those tickets will again be bought mostly by Butler fans.

The court itself is not an advantage for Butler. But the fact that they don't have to travel, can sleep in their own beds throughout the tournament, and have a larger fan base will be an advantage for them.

-bdbd
04-02-2010, 08:24 PM
That's a great description. WVU just keeps screening and cutting, screening and cutting. They have a bunch of versatile guys who just work really hard to score points. They don't shoot well, but their continuous screens/cuts get people out of position. You lose a guy and you're either toast for a pass and layup or a rebound and putback.

At first glance, nothing about WVU is impressive. They don't shoot well, they don't beat you off the dribble, they don't blow you away with transition buckets, and they don't have any great/flashy passers. But they just keep running screens and cuts, and they hope to catch you out of position at some point. And when they miss, they pound the glass.

As you said, it will take great communication, hard work, focus, and good fortune to contain their offense. Our guys have been up to nearly every challenge this year. Hopefully they can do it again tomorrow night.

Good description CDu... Just wanted to point out: What type of team is best suited to BEAT such a team with a bunch of versatile players, who play hard/blue collar, do lots of cuts and screens and rebounds with energy??? Answer: Yep, a team like Duke that ALSO hustles/works hard, is known for their good communicating while on D, presents some tough matchups -- such as Nolan vs. Mazu., or Zoubs vs. one of their 6-7 or 6-8 interior guys -- and rebounds very well too. I'd add in a team that has maturity (think: "is very experienced, maybe with significant upper-class leadership") and is well-coached/disciplined. Yep, that would be Duke. I just see us presenting WV with lots of matchup issues back the other way, and well-suited to combat WV's strengths.

Oh, and I've said this for years: I'd take K versus ANYBODY given a week to prepare. I expect he'll have found virtually any/every chink in that WV armor.

I can't wait - this should be a great battle (game).

Fingers (and everything else) crossed!!


:cool:

Ultrarunner
04-02-2010, 11:01 PM
This is a crucial matchup for us to win. Butler/Scheyer and Ebanks/Singler are much tougher matchups for us. We can win there too, but we REALLY need Smith to assert himself over Mazzulla. He's quicker than Mazzulla, he's a better shooter than Mazzulla, and overall he's just a better player than Mazzulla. He needs to be able to take Mazzulla out of the game defensively, and on offense he needs to win the matchup and create points for us.

Mazzula is foul prone. I'm really hoping that Nolan stays in attack mode and that Mazzula picks up some quick fouls. WV did not do well against UK when he was on the bench and the opportunity to press and pick up a few easy buckets would be huge.

ice-9
04-03-2010, 12:56 AM
At first glance, nothing about WVU is impressive. They don't shoot well, they don't beat you off the dribble, they don't blow you away with transition buckets, and they don't have any great/flashy passers. But they just keep running screens and cuts, and they hope to catch you out of position at some point. And when they miss, they pound the glass.


I agree with everything except the part about beating you off the dribble. Mazulla proved he can do that. He did it repeatedly against John Wall in the second half of their game. But I'm most concerned about their perimeter defense -- they're tall and athletic there and that happens to be where we initiate most of our offense.

It is surprising though that so many people sound upbeat about this game when people were so worried about Baylor. Because if WVU and Baylor played ten times WVU will probably win 7 times.

This is gonna be a tough game guys. It'll be an all out slug fest. A war. We can win this but it's not going to be easy. We're going to have to wrest it out of WVU; they're not going to give us anything.

Kewlswim
04-03-2010, 01:18 AM
I agree with everything except the part about beating you off the dribble. Mazulla proved he can do that. He did it repeatedly against John Wall in the second half of their game. But I'm most concerned about their perimeter defense -- they're tall and athletic there and that happens to be where we initiate most of our offense.

It is surprising though that so many people sound upbeat about this game when people were so worried about Baylor. Because if WVU and Baylor played ten times WVU will probably win 7 times.

This is gonna be a tough game guys. It'll be an all out slug fest. A war. We can win this but it's not going to be easy. We're going to have to wrest it out of WVU; they're not going to give us anything.

Hi,

I don't think people think this is going to be an "easy" game. I think that some were worried we couldn't beat Baylor because of their athletes. WVU seems to be in a Baylor type mold and so our fans have confidence we can keep this going. I think Duke fans, myself included, wanted a chance to be in this position and are enjoying it.

GO DUKE!

cptnflash
04-03-2010, 02:33 AM
It is surprising though that so many people sound upbeat about this game when people were so worried about Baylor. Because if WVU and Baylor played ten times WVU will probably win 7 times.

WVU is probably better than Baylor, but not by anywhere near that much. Pomeroy's pythagorean winning percentages, which are based on playing against an average D1 team on a neutral court, are as follows:

WVU = 0.9624
Baylor = 0.9580

My guess is if these two teams were paired up, Pomeroy would have WVU winning something like 52% or 53% of the time (Butler is only listed as a 58% favorite over MSU and their pythagorean percentages are much farther apart).

On an unrelated note... don't fear Mazzulla. He's not that good. He's had two great games in his whole life, both of which were in HIGHLY visible contexts. One was against us two years ago, and the other was last weekend against Kentucky. For some contrast, here's his line from WVU's second and third round NCAAT games:

Round 2 vs. Missouri: 3 points on 1 of 5 shooting, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 turns

Round 3 vs. Washington: 3 points on 1 of 8 shooting, 1 rebound, 4 assists, 4 turns

The only thing Mazzulla does consistently well is foul a lot.

If we lose, which I think is very unlikely, it'll be because of Kevin Jones. He's the only guy they have who scares me. Luckily he doesn't shoot a ton. Hopefully that doesn't change tomorrow.

ice-9
04-03-2010, 05:58 AM
I fear Butler for his heroics, Ebanks because apparently he is the best pro prospect in the game, Jones for his 40% 3-pt shooting, and Mazzulla because he has shown at least on two occasions he will play up to his opponent.

I don't think it's unlikely that we will lose. We can win; we can lose. It's going to be up to our boys to play harder than WVU. I'm not saying it's a toss up, but KenPom is way too generous at 70%.

greybeard
04-03-2010, 08:46 AM
Mazzula is foul prone. I'm really hoping that Nolan stays in attack mode and that Mazzula picks up some quick fouls. WV did not do well against UK when he was on the bench and the opportunity to press and pick up a few easy buckets would be huge.

This is a hope, as in a fantasy. W Va will start out in it 1-3-1 with Mazzula on the back line just as it deployed against Kentucky. It will stay in it as long as it works, which should be all game. Duke had better be practicing 3s from the same spots as the Kentucky players did, which is to say unconventional gap spots that are neither here nor there, unfamiliar spots that are a half step deeper than normal and, if we are talking wing, a step or three closer to the baseline than usual. An "open" look from an unfamilar spot is not so open, and the ability to shoot with rhythm is thrown off because much of what has become habitual in one's 3-game is no longer of service. And, when you have to think about something like shooting a long ball, well, as Hewlett High's Mr. Munch used to say often and loud to his very best players (ask Matt Lawrence), "Don't think, you're not built for it."

As for W Va's screen game, it is not just the number of screens, it is their placement, which for W Va is at the elbow. Players use them going North to South, which brings them into the lane or down the side of the lane for a potential attack at that basket, sometimes without even the need for a dribble, or South to North, which implicates the 3 possibility.

The potent part of their screen game is NOT as convention sees it in their receivers so much as in their screeners. Like Duke, screening at W Va has become a life skill; it is what stirs the drink for both Duke and W Va. In W Va's case, like Duke, there are multiple screen sets on each possession. However, unlike Duke, there are no set roles even on a single possession. Z for Duke will have a progression, even as part of something resembling a set play, or otherwise be among a selection of logical progression sthat the guys have learned and all have practiced paths to follow as it develops.

In W Va's case, the screener turns into the weapon on the next screen as often as not, and then switches roles again if the play continues to progress without a shot. Interchangible parts that depend on W Va's length and athleticism advantage. Contrary to Feinstein, who I heard on DC radio talk at length, and stuff that I'm reading here, "advantage" off the screen for Huggins does not mean a "breakdown" of the defense, or a guy necessarily coming free. That would be NOT!

Advantage for Huggins is old school. See, if you have an angle on a guy, just an angle, and you press the advantage, the defender whomever he is cannot properly defend the guy with the ball, absent help. When a guy catches and sees that there is help lacking East or West, he will test the waters. If the help does not suddenly and effectively appear, the guy takes his time and becomes the scorer.

W Va guys understand how to create angles, see advantage in terms of help deficiencies, and make a defense pay.

So Duke will have to vigiilent not just on the first generation off-the-ball receiver but on the second-generation help defense, against players who know what they are looking for and are intent on acting affirmatively only when they get it, unless the opponent deploys consistently in ways defenders almost never are asked to.

Georgetown, familiar with how this guanlet works, was as prepared for it as any team could possibly be. They did a terrific job in the Big East Tournament Chamionship game of presenting help that cut off attacks in either direction on most every screen reception.

I think that this game turns on the extent to which Duke is prepared to know what they need to do with regard to full team participation throughout defensive possessions and to do what it takes for as long as it takes to make W Va take shots not of its choice. I think that a focus on "staying with" the receiver off screens is fools gold for talking heads. The real battle just begins after the catch and is away from it.

Regretably, I think that the other key to the game lies with the refs. Mazzula will be running the baseline and will be assigned to Zoubek. He will get under Zoubek and will try to take his legs, yes take his legs as in pushing and leaning against Zoubek from the waist down. If he gets away with rough housing in this unconventional fashion, and can keep Brian off the boards, there is really one other option for Duke. That would be looking to get it inside to score the ball.

Which brings us to where some of us feared we were heading much earlier in the season when we expressed concern about the team's lack of commitment with throwing it inside like other teams to bigs with an angle and having them go get it on an athletic reception. The game just might turn on such plays.

If it does, I look for people to be cheering for something we have only seen dribs and drabs of but I think can be extremely potent and is the closest thing to an interior offense that is ready to be rolled off the shelf that Duke has. That would involve the Plumlees in a high low game. I think that Miles can get shots off the catch inside the zone in the high post and he will have to take them. Like a scorer, he should not be detered if he misses a few. He has that shot and can knock it down. He will have to. The real place that the battle will be fought will be down low between Mazzoli and Mason. If Miles and Mason hook up as they can, I do not think that Huggins will have been prepared to stop it, and don't know that they can if Miles becomes a scoring threat on the high post and is willing to put it on the floor, which again he can.

I believe that the Plumlees have been ready for this since Mason arrived. I also believe that if this was not practiced this week that it will prove to be an unfortunate miss.

Should be quite a game.

JStuart
04-03-2010, 10:08 AM
^ This is why I filter my ACC basketball worldview through this set of boards. Thanks, Greybeard, for your analysis; just what I wanted to see this AM; I only wonder where Al Featherston's analysis has been.
PS, Someone told me the other day that a grey beard was just 'middle-aged blonde'....
Go Duke!

CDu
04-03-2010, 10:17 AM
This is a hope, as in a fantasy.

Despite averaging only 15.6 minutes per game, Mazzulla has committed at least 3 fouls in 16 of his 36 games this year. He's committed at least 4 fouls in 11 games. And he's fouled out 3 times. He fouls at a rate similar to that of the Plumlee brothers.

In his last three games, he's averaged 4 fouls in 26.3 minutes. So I'd hardly say it's a fantasy that we might get Mazzulla in foul trouble. Obviously he might not get in foul trouble in any particular single game. But it would not be remotely surprising, given his foul trouble this season, for Mazzulla to get into foul trouble.


Should be quite a game.

I agree with your analysis of WVU's screening game, and I completely agree that it'll be quite a game. It's a very tough matchup for us. It's also a very tough matchup for them, especially if we're shooting reasonably well.

Neals384
04-03-2010, 11:25 AM
Today's Medford Mail Tribune:


He took a nasty fall and landed on his right wrist midway through the second half against Purdue and re-aggravated a nagging injury he sustained earlier in the season during a physical battle with Wake Forest.

"I think it's one of those injuries that's gotten better but every time he gets hit or falls on it, it goes right back to pain or stiffness," said Ed Singler. "He's playing through it, just like a lot of other athletes are doing these days."

Conifmrs what we already knew, but this is the first time I've seen it "in print".

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100403/SPORTS/4030315

ArtVandelay
04-03-2010, 11:49 AM
I'd flip basically, I'd go with this:

Smith - Mazzulla/Mitchell/Pepper
Scheyer - Butler/Flowers
Singler - Ebanks/Butler/Flowers
Thomas/Mason - Jones/Ebanks
Zoubek/Miles - Smith/Thoroughman/Kilicli

CDu,

What do you think the chances are that K will take the same approach as in the Baylor game and put Singler on Butler and leave Scheyer on a larger but offensively limited player in Ebanks/Flowers? I can see some logic in that, except that I'm not sure Scheyer can keep Ebanks off the offensive glass.

Agree with your assessment of Zoubek. Would be nice to try to get him on the floor when WVU goes with Thoroughman/Kilicli, but stay flexible enough to pull him in favor of the Plumlees if he can't guard Smith away from the basket.

theAlaskanBear
04-03-2010, 11:52 AM
CDu,

What do you think the chances are that K will take the same approach as in the Baylor game and put Singler on Butler and leave Scheyer on a larger but offensively limited player in Ebanks/Flowers? I can see some logic in that, except that I'm not sure Scheyer can keep Ebanks off the offensive glass.

Agree with your assessment of Zoubek. Would be nice to try to get him on the floor when WVU goes with Thoroughman/Kilicli, but stay flexible enough to pull him in favor of the Plumlees if he can't guard Smith away from the basket.

I think Thomas is ideally suited to guard Ebanks and Jones. Thomas has to flexibility to get out on Jones at the perimeter, and Ebanks has more of a midrange game. Both are mobile and quick, so THomas would be a better guard than the Plumlees.

CDu
04-03-2010, 12:03 PM
CDu,

What do you think the chances are that K will take the same approach as in the Baylor game and put Singler on Butler and leave Scheyer on a larger but offensively limited player in Ebanks/Flowers? I can see some logic in that, except that I'm not sure Scheyer can keep Ebanks off the offensive glass.

I think that part of the reason that Singler was able to guard Dunn was because the guy playing the 3 was not much of an offensive threat and just camped out at the 3pt line. That's not really the case with Ebanks, who will attack the rim with the ball or for offensive rebounds, and is terrific along the baseline. It's not a good matchup for Scheyer, in my opinion.

Flowers is much less of a concern offensively. In that scenario I could see Singler guarding Butler.

WVU presents some very interesting matchup (and scheme) problems for us, and it will be interesting to see how we handle them. We present fewer matchup problems for them, but hopefully we execute better and are able to exploit our matchup advantages.


Agree with your assessment of Zoubek. Would be nice to try to get him on the floor when WVU goes with Thoroughman/Kilicli, but stay flexible enough to pull him in favor of the Plumlees if he can't guard Smith away from the basket.

Thoroughman and Kilicli will only play if we get the bigs in foul trouble. They played a combined 9 minutes against UK and the same against Washington, and that was basically because Smith got 4 fouls. But yes, I definitely think Zoubek should be on the floor whenever Kilicli or Thoroughman is in.

Im4howdy
04-03-2010, 12:09 PM
In a game many consider close to a toss-up, I suggest the following Duke advantages:

(1) They will not back down. W.Va. plays a rugged style and often has the upper hand through "knocking a team back" (as Coach K would say). Duke pushes back and gives as well as it gets.

(2) Duke is noted for its tough defense and I believe W.Va. will try and force screens on offense that will end in charges taken by Duke.

(3) While W.Va. is methodical in their offensive screening to get points, Duke is quicker passing the ball around their screens and finding the open man.

(4) Fouls. Duke has more to give and shoots free throws better.

(5) Coach K. As a number of people have said already, giving him 5 days to strategize and prepare his team is a major Duke advantage.

DevilHorns
04-03-2010, 12:11 PM
Yes yes yes! Most of the ESPN analysts today are picking WVU over Duke (Forde, Katz, Oneil). Thats a good sign in general since these "analysts" have been dead wrong all tournament.

riverside6
04-03-2010, 12:53 PM
for those interested, you can run our Game Sim for Duke/West Virginia here...

Duke/WVU Game Sim (http://www.scacchoops.com/gamesimulator.asp?hometeam=DU&homeyear=2010&awayteam=West%20Virginia&awayyear=2010&ExcludePlayers=Olek%20Czyz^BRYANT,DARRYL)

Our sim has picked 8 of 11 games right and hit the margin of victory within 1 point 6 of 8 times.

For this matchup, it has picked Duke to win 72.6% of the time (out of 351 sims). The avg score is Duke 68.6 West Virginia 60.8.

oldnavy
04-03-2010, 12:58 PM
Any word on Kyle's wrist???

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-03-2010, 01:00 PM
Any word on Kyle's wrist???

It's a lot better.

brevity
04-03-2010, 01:32 PM
Any word on Kyle's wrist???

I don't think he has a tattoo there.


for those interested, you can run our Game Sim for Duke/West Virginia here...

Duke/WVU Game Sim (http://www.scacchoops.com/gamesimulator.asp?hometeam=DU&homeyear=2010&awayteam=West%20Virginia&awayyear=2010&ExcludePlayers=Olek%20Czyz^BRYANT,DARRYL)

Interesting tool. I ran this year's Duke squad against last year's, twice. The 2010 edition won both times (68-61 and 68-66). Not surprisingly, Brian Zoubek 2010 was more of a factor. Curiously, Kyle Singler 2010 outscored Singler 2009 both times, and Nolan Smith 2009 outscored Smith 2010 in one game. Andre Dawkins and Elliot Williams were a trade-off. Gerald Henderson was a solid contributor, but broke out in neither game.

Wheat/"/"/"
04-03-2010, 01:42 PM
It's always nice to see your team in a final four with a chance at the championship. This year's Duke team has played hard and represented themselves, the school, and the conference very well.

All the "hate" out there is just crap, ignore it I say, and enjoy watching very good basketball players play the biggest games of their lives.

Good luck tonight!

Kewlswim
04-03-2010, 02:28 PM
It's always nice to see your team in a final four with a chance at the championship. This year's Duke team has played hard and represented themselves, the school, and the conference very well.

All the "hate" out there is just crap, ignore it I say, and enjoy watching very good basketball players play the biggest games of their lives.

Good luck tonight!

Hi,

Thanks for the kind words. I am going to need to get high blood pressure medication after all the Duke hate. My goodness.

GO DUKE!

BigZ
04-03-2010, 03:47 PM
Yes yes yes! Most of the ESPN analysts today are picking WVU over Duke (Forde, Katz, Oneil). Thats a good sign in general since these "analysts" have been dead wrong all tournament.

Bilas, Vitale, Davis, and Doug G have picked Duke though.

Vincetaylor
04-03-2010, 03:50 PM
It's always nice to see your team in a final four with a chance at the championship. This year's Duke team has played hard and represented themselves, the school, and the conference very well.

All the "hate" out there is just crap, ignore it I say, and enjoy watching very good basketball players play the biggest games of their lives.

Good luck tonight!

Thanks!