Lost: Ab Aeterno

[JasonEvans]

It is here! The episode we have all been waiting for since a young Ben wandered into the woods and ran into the exact same Richard we knew from 30 years in the future.

-Jason "all comments on this episode go in this thread" Evans

[JasonEvans]

By the way, my kids are halfway through season two and just watched The 23rd Psalm (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_23rd_Psalm), the episode where we learn about Eko's history.

As you may recall, the episode includes Eko's faceoff with the Smoke Monster. Rewatching that scene, it is clear to me that the show had no idea at that time what the Smoke Monster was or how it would figure into the end of the story. Sigh. While I continue to think that some broad strokes of the story were planned in advance, it is becoming increasingly apparent to me that they are making stuff up as they go along.

--Jason "will AAA be making a guest appearance this season?" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

By the way, my kids are halfway through season two and just watched The 23rd Psalm (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_23rd_Psalm), the episode where we learn about Eko's history.

As you may recall, the episode includes Eko's faceoff with the Smoke Monster. Rewatching that scene, it is clear to me that the show had no idea at that time what the Smoke Monster was or how it would figure into the end of the story. Sigh. While I continue to think that some broad strokes of the story were planned in advance, it is becoming increasingly apparent to me that they are making stuff up as they go along.

--Jason "will AAA be making a guest appearance this season?" Evans

Why? It's been a while since I've seen it, but the whole "Judge, Jury and Executioner" and "With me Against Me" mantra of the monster/Flocke seems to hold true, especially when you take into account the following Eko feature in Season 3.

I am sure there are details that are off, but I am not sure it throws it completely out of wack. I mean, you just don't have a random smoke monster unless you have an idea what it is. Now maybe they didn't know at the time it would eventually take the form of Locke, but I'm not sure that episode negates the basic principals behind it.

One clear distinction between Jacob and the Man in Black/Smoke Monster/Locke: Jacob is very much about letting people make their own decisions (or at least letting them think they are making their own decisions), whereas the monster is "Do it my way, or I kill you." He was like that with Eko, for instance.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

--Jason "will AAA be making a guest appearance this season?" Evans
Did someone's car break down on the road? :eek::p:D

[BlueDevilBaby]

Did someone's car break down on the road? :eek::p:D

Must be the VW van.

[alteran]

Why? It's been a while since I've seen it, but the whole "Judge, Jury and Executioner" and "With me Against Me" mantra of the monster/Flocke seems to hold true, especially when you take into account the following Eko feature in Season 3.

One clear distinction between Jacob and the Man in Black/Smoke Monster/Locke: Jacob is very much about letting people make their own decisions (or at least letting them think they are making their own decisions), whereas the monster is "Do it my way, or I kill you." He was like that with Eko, for instance.

I'm with you on this one. We'll have to grant that Jason (presumably) just rewatched it and sees the episode through less of a haze, but I agree that the material facts you describe still seem to fit with the Flocke we know and loathe.

Apologies since I've mentioned this before, but folks always seem to assume Eko was killed by Smoke for being "bad," but I've long thought the reverse, because Eko was clearly reformed. That theory makes a lot of sense with our current understanding of Smoke/Flocke.

Gotta say, my patience with Lost is running thinner than it has been, the fact that the show keeps teasing us with big reveals only to give us incremental nuggets isn't helping.

I'm not expecting the season finale tonite, but if this is another episode with a dramatic "answers are coming" promo where the question we get answered is "oh THAT'S where the teddy bear from season one came from", I think I'm going to have to join the skeptics.

[Wander]

After lots of skepticism, I'm tentatively on the Aaron = Man In Black bandwagon and I wouldn't be shocked if that gets revealed tonight - it's about time for a really epic Lost moment or character death.

[snowdenscold]

The problem you people have is that you watch the promos. I turn it off immediately after the black background "LOST" pops up and therefore never feel deceived about next week's episode. I think we all concluded years ago that the ABC promo monkeys were full of BS, so why continue to remain disappointed and/or frustrated?

[JG Nothing]

Good "Totally Lost" video for 3/23:
http://www.ew.com/ew/video/0,,20313460_20313475,00.html?bcpid=45063709001&bclid=64100614001&bctid=73368385001
Check out 1:10-1:20 in part 2. "Bitter"...too funny. The Rebecca Mader interview makes me like her character, Charlotte, a little bit more.

[JG Nothing]

By the way, my kids are halfway through season two and just watched The 23rd Psalm (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_23rd_Psalm), the episode where we learn about Eko's history.

As you may recall, the episode includes Eko's faceoff with the Smoke Monster. Rewatching that scene, it is clear to me that the show had no idea at that time what the Smoke Monster was or how it would figure into the end of the story. Sigh. While I continue to think that some broad strokes of the story were planned in advance, it is becoming increasingly apparent to me that they are making stuff up as they go along.

--Jason "will AAA be making a guest appearance this season?" Evans

I would be really surprised if they did not have a pretty good idea of what they wanted to do with the smoke monster from the start. To throw in something that random and significant from the very beginning without a mapped out plan for it is just plain stupid.

[JG Nothing]

After lots of skepticism, I'm tentatively on the Aaron = Man In Black bandwagon and I wouldn't be shocked if that gets revealed tonight - it's about time for a really epic Lost moment or character death.

What is the rationale behind this theory?

[A-Tex Devil]

From IMDB:

Click link, you may also need to click "see more." Second to last name. But this got me excited!!


Don't click if you don't want to know casting spoiler!! (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1467644/fullcredits#cast)

[JasonEvans]

A-Tex and Alteran--

So you guys are saying that when Eko first encounters the smoke monster it does not kill him because it judges him to be a bad person who it thinks it can manipulate and use to serve its own purposes. Do I have that right? Then, in season 3 when the smoke monster shows up in the form of Yemi it realizes that Eko has repented for his past sins so it decides to kill him.

Hmmmmm. My only problem with that is we don't really see any change in the Eko character from his first encounter to the second. He is not a sinner when he first encounters the smoke monster, he has already repented at that point. Recall that he went on a 40-day vow of silence and fasting after he killed 2 Others. He had already been acting as a priest, helping people and generally putting his criminal life behind him. I saw nothing in between his first and second encounters with the smoke monster that would make the monster judge him differently.

The smoke monster took out Keamey and his men-- they were certainly not good people.

I really hope I am wrong, but I am betting that when we get an explanation of the motivations behind FLocke/Smokey/MIB, it will not fit neatly into the actions of the smoke monster over the years.

-Jason "again, I really hope I am wrong" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

A-Tex and Alteran--

So you guys are saying that when Eko first encounters the smoke monster it does not kill him because it judges him to be a bad person who it thinks it can manipulate and use to serve its own purposes. Do I have that right? Then, in season 3 when the smoke monster shows up in the form of Yemi it realizes that Eko has repented for his past sins so it decides to kill him.

Hmmmmm. My only problem with that is we don't really see any change in the Eko character from his first encounter to the second. He is not a sinner when he first encounters the smoke monster, he has already repented at that point. Recall that he went on a 40-day vow of silence and fasting after he killed 2 Others. He had already been acting as a priest, helping people and generally putting his criminal life behind him. I saw nothing in between his first and second encounters with the smoke monster that would make the monster judge him differently.

The smoke monster took out Keamey and his men-- they were certainly not good people.

I really hope I am wrong, but I am betting that when we get an explanation of the motivations behind FLocke/Smokey/MIB, it will not fit neatly into the actions of the smoke monster over the years.

-Jason "again, I really hope I am wrong" Evans


That's not really what I'm saying. It's more simplistic than that: Do what Smokey wants, or he will kill you. And based on last week, it's because, if you are against him, you are a threat.

And I agree with you that there are probably some inconsistent details. But I think/hope in Season 2, it "read" Eko's mind or whatever, and then in Season 3 when the writers needed to kill the character off (due to AAA wanting off the show), they did it in a way where the smoke (Yemi) asked Eko to make a decision (confess, or whatever). When he didn't do what Yemi/Smokey asked, it killed him, just like it killed the Temple others who didn't do what he asked.

My main point, however, is that I think they had a clear idea of what the smoke monster was and represents from the beginning. That's just too weird of a concept not to have planned out generally.

[Wander]

What is the rationale behind this theory?

Honestly, the main reason is just that they've concealed Smoke Monster's name - so maybe his name is someone we'll recognize.

Now, I've mostly thought that this was really stupid. But go back and watch the scene where Smoke Locke talks with Kate about his mother, this time with the assumption that Smoke Locke is Aaron trying to change his past, much like the Losties tried to change their past in Season 5.

Ok, it's still pretty silly and probably wrong, but that particular scene fits in nicely with the idea.

[JG Nothing]

Honestly, the main reason is just that they've concealed Smoke Monster's name - so maybe his name is someone we'll recognize.

Now, I've mostly thought that this was really stupid. But go back and watch the scene where Smoke Locke talks with Kate about his mother, this time with the assumption that Smoke Locke is Aaron trying to change his past, much like the Losties tried to change their past in Season 5.

Ok, it's still pretty silly and probably wrong, but that particular scene fits in nicely with the idea.

No, not necessarily silly, but an interesting guess. I've read other people speculating about Aaron being Jacob or MIB even before the last episode. Since we really don't know what the island is capable of doing or its purpose and we have no significant backstory about Jacob or MIB, pretty much anything is possible.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

No, not necessarily silly, but an interesting guess. I've read other people speculating about Aaron being Jacob or MIB even before the last episode. Since we really don't know what the island is capable of doing or its purpose and we have no significant backstory about Jacob or MIB, pretty much anything is possible.
Are you saying that Aaron, born to Claire in 2004, grows up (?) and goes back in time to who knows when and is either Jacob or MIB? Or is there another Aaron?

[alteran]

A-Tex and Alteran--

So you guys are saying that when Eko first encounters the smoke monster it does not kill him because it judges him to be a bad person who it thinks it can manipulate and use to serve its own purposes. Do I have that right? Then, in season 3 when the smoke monster shows up in the form of Yemi it realizes that Eko has repented for his past sins so it decides to kill him.

-Jason "again, I really hope I am wrong" Evans

Bottom line: at one point, Smokey thought Eko could be useful to him and spared him. But when Smokey probed Eko, he saw something he didn't like, and acted accordingly.

On the major elements of where we are with Smokey/Flocke, I still think that's consistent.

I think I'm confusing this a little with the evil versus good digression. And as we've seen, Jacob's folks are awfully free with the killing and kidnapping, so maybe this frame should be abandoned.

Regarding Flocke taking out Keamy: with Lost you can never be sure, but currently it looks like team Flocke and Team Widmore are opposed. Taking out Keamy would certainly make sense here. Granted, Ben summoning Smokey needs some 'splaining.

Let me underscore that my theme with these theories is not "will it make sense," but "CAN it make sense." As much as anything does on Lost, yes, I still think it CAN. Wouldn't shock me if the edges were a little rough, though.

Moving on, whoever said to blow off the promos-- good call. They aren't really written by the Lost folks but ABC, so you're right that I should probably ignore them completely (and usually do).

But after so many weeks of underwhelming reveals, it's time for Lost to deliver. As much mythology as the show needs to cover, there just isn't much time left.

[JG Nothing]

Are you saying that Aaron, born to Claire in 2004, grows up (?) and goes back in time to who knows when and is either Jacob or MIB? Or is there another Aaron?

I'm not saying it, others are (that is, if I am understanding them correctly). In the words of Rebecca Mader (aka Charlotte), "Time travel's a b*tch."

[alteran]

Then, in season 3 when the smoke monster shows up in the form of Yemi it realizes that Eko has repented for his past sins so it decides to kill him.

Hmmmmm. My only problem with that is we don't really see any change in the Eko character from his first encounter to the second.

Oh, and one last thing. I'm pretty convinced that not all visions/interactions with those formerly alive (in this case, Yemi) are necessarily encounters with Smokey. I think there are two entities (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=372195&postcount=32) able to assume the forms of other folks.

[DevilHorns]

HELL?

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

OMG, they just can't be dead, Seriously? I mean it's shocking and dull at the same time.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

We are not getting that many answers, Just richards story, which is in some ways pretty boring.

[devildm]

I think they could have compressed the first 50 minutes into 20 minutes and then given us more of Richard's time on the island (including his interaction with the Others). Other than the last 10 minutes, I was pretty bored with this episode.

[Lord Ash]

Hm... I thought we finally got some answers, actually...

The island is a sort of "gateway" to hell, or a place "on the way."

Smokey/man in black is the Devil, who wants to escape hell and get into the world.

Jacob (an angel, I assume?) is who holds him on the island; his replacement will have the job of holding the Devil in this place.

I feel like we finally have a "set" story in place... or has everyone else known it was there and I just put it together?

[DukeUsul]

I enjoyed the story behind our mystery man and thought the acting of Nestor Carbonell was great.

[A-Tex Devil]

I agree the episode was slow. However....

I thought pretty much the whole mythology was revealed tonight other than the 2 main questions:

1. Who is Jacob?
2. What is the island and where did it come from?

Smokey is smokey. He's like the wine in the bottle that occasionally takes the form of a man. FIrst Titus Welliver, now Locke. Jacob is the protector of the rest of the world, acting as the bottlecap keeping the wine in the bottle. It's a play on Pandora's box. Jacob was always out looking for candidates for his replacement. He's dead, now one of the 6 has to take his place and protect the world from smokey by keeping him on the island.

When Jacob brings Richard to the island, and Richard says that someone needs to steer the people to do good and not be corrupted, that's sort of the beginning of the "others." Jacob probably starts bringing people to the island to help him keep Smokey from leaving and Richard is that nudge in the right direction. The island must be protected because if it's destroyed (however that may be), Smokey gets to leave.

Looks like Jin and Sun next week. Hurley's episode is 2 weeks after that, so not sure who is in between. Maybe Claire or Desmond? I bet Hurley's is the last with flash sideways.

[BlueintheFace]

As it stands right now, it appears:

1) Jacob is the gatekeeper so to speak. His function is to keep the anti-jacob (or Esau if you like) on the island. If Man-In-Black (MIB) escapes, he will corrupt the world.
Theory: The alternate universe is actually the real world. Is this possible?

2) MIB is the devil. He is also the smoke monster. He wants to escape
Theory: He can take the form of dead people- Christian who helped Locke get off the island, thusly opening the loophole. Alex who told Ben to listen to Flocke, and now obviously Flocke

3) Richard is Jacob's helper who essentially combats the forces of evil and Anti-jacob on the island

4) Jacob brings candidates to take over for him to the island constantly to see if they can survive the pressures of evil and be worthy. RA looks after them and others because Jacob believes in free will and doesn't want to interfere.

5) Ajira crew was brought to the island to shepherd the remaining 6 to RA.

6) Widmore and his compatriots/ employees over the years support Jacob's cause.


Questions:

-What is the island? Is it hell? Purgatory? Hell's vestibule with Cerberus (smokey?)
-Why does MIB want to leave? Just to corrupt the world?

...just spitballin here

[DevilHorns]

To review, how did Hurley get his power to see the dead? Did Jacob touch him at some point and transfer him that power?

Overall great episode. Some questions were dun answered.

[Wander]

To review, how did Hurley get his power to see the dead? Did Jacob touch him at some point and transfer him that power?

Doesn't it seem like the very last line (about Richard needing to stop the MIB) implies that Hurley has no such power? That all the dead people, except Jacob himself, are just Jacob-controlled illusions?

Also, I think this was the first time the phrase "Man In Black" was used on the show. Cool.

[snowdenscold]

Question: Are we supposed to assume the very last scene between Jacob and MIB takes place in present time (circa 2007), or immediately after the events of the last Richard flashback (circa 1867 or whenever) ?

[A-Tex Devil]

Question: Are we supposed to assume the very last scene between Jacob and MIB takes place in present time (circa 2007), or immediately after the events of the last Richard flashback (circa 1867 or whenever) ?

Def the latter.

[snowdenscold]

Def the latter.

OK that is what I thought. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy.

[Lord Ash]

You know one thing that annoyed me?

When Richard looked down at Jack and said "We are dead. We are in Hell!"

My wife was all "OHHHHH!!! Wow!!"

I just shrugged and said "That isn't it. They would never reveal something that important. Stupid show."

She was all angry that I would be so dismissive of something so neat, but it was just obvious to me... Lost never gives us nice, straightforward answers.

*sigh*

[DukeUsul]

You know one thing that annoyed me?

When Richard looked down at Jack and said "We are dead. We are in Hell!"

My wife was all "OHHHHH!!! Wow!!"

I just shrugged and said "That isn't it. They would never reveal something that important. Stupid show."

She was all angry that I would be so dismissive of something so neat, but it was just obvious to me... Lost never gives us nice, straightforward answers.

*sigh*
I had the same exact conversation with my wife.

[weezie]

We thought they might be in purgatory...everybody there is guilty of some transgression?
But the Whitmore guy still stumps me.
Why did Smoky pull back from attacking Richard in the hull of the boat? Did he see him as good or bad/desperate enough to kill Jacob?

[snowdenscold]

While it seems that Jacob is the good guy - I find myself, at least anthropologically, agreeing with MIB more. Jacob's views seem a bit too Pelagian for me.

[dcarp23]

We thought they might be in purgatory...everybody there is guilty of some transgression?
But the Whitmore guy still stumps me.
Why did Smoky pull back from attacking Richard in the hull of the boat? Did he see him as good or bad/desperate enough to kill Jacob?

That was my thought--he thought Richard could be manipulated. I'm 99% sure that when Richard saw his wife, he was seeing Smoky. This gets back to the Eko (sp?) issue--I think he killed him because he realized there was no way he could get Eko to do his bidding.

[A-Tex Devil]

1. Is the Titus Welliver man in black another dead body that smokey took over, or is that what he really used to look like?

2. I know why Smokey becomes Locke -- to manipulate Ben. But why is he now stuck in Locke's body permanently, as was mentioned several episodes ago.

3. Why does Smokey indiscriminately kill people (the 815 pilot, the Black Rock survivors, potentially the Ajira survivors on Hydra)? What purpose does this serve him, or does he enjoy it? Is this what he would do if the Island/Cork let him out?

4. Does DisneyWorld have to make a Smoke Monster rollercoaster? I mean, that's what he sounds like.

Remember on the hatch map, it called Smokey "Cerberus"?

I don't usually read Doc Jensen's EW recaps because his analogies are to arcane and far fetched for me, and frankly, they are too long. But I will probably read it this week.

[ncexnyc]

We thought they might be in purgatory...everybody there is guilty of some transgression?
But the Whitmore guy still stumps me.
Why did Smoky pull back from attacking Richard in the hull of the boat? Did he see him as good or bad/desperate enough to kill Jacob?

Ahhh, the dreaded P word. Many people speculated about this during the first season and TPTB quickly shot it down. It did seem that everyone on the island had some serious issues and once they resolved their issue they died.
If we are to believe that TPTB had a story planned in advance and say for arguements sake it did involve purgatory, their rapid and strong response makes sense.

The, "We're in Hell" line has been used before on this show. IIRC Locke's dad used it when he was first shown to Locke and then later when they had him strung-up at that outdoor altar. Could be the old red herring ploy, but you never know.

[JasonEvans]

So, when Ben and MIB/FLocke showed up in Jacob's home, Jacob seemed surprised that MIB had "found a loophole."

But we are supposed to believe that MIB tried this exact same thing with Richard a couple hundred years ago.

To quote Seth Meyers and Amy Poehller, "REALLY?"

We are supposed to believe that MIB tried this with Richard and then never tried it again for a couple hundred years until he got Ben to do the same thing. REALLY?

We are supposed to believe that Jacob beat the snot out of Richard and disarmed him but then Jacob just sat there and did nothing while Ben knifed him in the chest? REALLY?

"Don't let him talk to you..." but then Ben and Jacob have a whole conversation before Ben knifes him.

We got more than an hour of Richard back-story but got to see only the events of 200 years ago. We see nothing of Richard forming "The Others" and guiding them and their leaders at other times.

I hate that the Black Rock was on some kind of tidal wave that washed it into the giant statue and then deposited it in the middle of the jungle. What a lame explanation that is. What happened to the boars and other animals, what happened to the trees and plants while the water was rushing over the land so much that it took the ship to the middle of the island? Heck, what happened to Jacob, hanging out in the foot of the statue, when there was 80 feet of water on top of him?

I liked some of Richard's religious past as an explanation for him calling the Island, "Hell." That worked. I sorta liked the explanation for what the Island was and what Jacob is doing there. I have no idea why Jacob is bothering to bring people to the Island though. That made no sense whatsoever. Jacob's purpose seems to be keeping the "evil" from escaping. Why does he need to bring people to the Island to be killed and to potentially kill him and set the evil free?

I will say this, all the angst about the need for answers and running out of time does not bother me. We have something like 9 hours of Lost still to go before it is done. An entire movie generally takes around 2 hours. If you think there is no time to answer everything, you are crazy. They can easily answer everything in the final episode if that is what they want. Heck, I bet a 5 minute conversion between Jack and Jacob could get it done.

It was lame at times but I am glad we got Richard's history and like the little bit that it moved us closer to answers. Much of Richard's story was very predictable and was just confirmation of stuff we already suspected, but that was ok.

Sadly, I think next week will be more waiting -- Sun and Jin's story just does not feel like it will hold the key plot developments for which we have been waiting. We'll see.

-Jason "gotta check Lostpedia now to see what the geniuses there saw that I missed" Evans

[JasonEvans]

The, "We're in Hell" line has been used before on this show. IIRC Locke's dad used it when he was first shown to Locke and then later when they had him strung-up at that outdoor altar. Could be the old red herring ploy, but you never know.

In the category of things that will never be explained-- Locke's father showing up on the Island and the "magic box" that brought him there.

Sigh.

I think the thing that bothers me the most is that every time I look at Ben or Richard -- characters who are now "good guys" and who have been working all along for Jacob (who is increasingly looking like a divine character who fights the Devil) -- every time I look at them I still see the folks who gassed everyone in Dharma and kidnapped/killed survivors of 815 without any explanation and did all sorts of other horrible stuff. Ben told Locke that Locke had to commit murder (patricide) to become the leader of the Others. These are the people we are rooting for?

REALLY?

If it were not for the black smoke killing people at random, I would be firmly in the MIB is good and Jacob is bad camp.

--Jason "the people who follow Jacob do some terrible stuff" Evans

[mkirsh]

--Jason "the people who follow Jacob do some terrible stuff" Evans

Maybe they are not really following Jacob? Jacob told Richard that he didn't like to intervene and would rather that people make their own decisions. So whenever Ben went asking Jacob for direction, it's possible he was taking direction from the MIB in the form of Christian/someone else in the cabin, or just making his own rules?

I do agree that they are setting up Jacob = good and MIB = bad a bit too much, and I wonder if the truth is the reverse or some alternate more nuanced answer. I don't trust what either of them say at this point, they both seem self serving and manipulative.

[JasonEvans]

Not sure how many of you are aware of him but there is a Lost fan who writes recaps every week that are just fabulous. His name is Vozzek69. His recap of Ab Aeterno (http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/03/wow-just-wow-things-i-noticed-ab.html#more) is really good and certainly worth reading.

It is long and there is tons of great stuff, but my favorite part was this--


If it seemed the middle part of this episode dragged a bit, that's because it did. Yet in hindsight, it was necessary for us to see Richard get broken down to his absolute lowest point. This was a slow process, starting with the rainwater being just of reach as Richard is dying of thirst. Still determined to live, he pries a nail from the floorboard to chip away at his bonds.

That's where the man in black comes in again. The first time he scanned Richard as the smoke monster, to draw from his memories. This time he arrives in the form of a boar, to knock the nail from Richard's hand. As Richard realizes he's lost any real chance for escape, his despair runs even deeper. Again, the dark man leaves him to wallow in that desperation for a while longer, bringing him to a weaker and weaker state.

Then, in one of the dirtiest of all known tricks, the MIB shows up as Isabella. After giving him false hope, she runs from Richard's clinging grasp only to be crushed by the smoke monster. This destroys any last trace of fight, or even will to live, within Ricardo. And as he lays there utterly and completely broken, that's when the man in black finally moves to recruit him - first touching him on the shoulder.

He goes on letting Richard think they're in hell, mainly because it serves his purpose but also because the MIB is indeed trapped in his own personal hell. He also doesn't waste any time in getting to his point, convincing Richard he'll need to "kill the devil". The way the dark man gets Richard to agree to do anything he asks is almost like cheating; although still giving him a choice, he's been closely and directly influencing Richard's environment for several days now.

For the second straight episode, the dark man fully admits to being the smoke monster. This blunt truth is actually detrimental to the story he's cooking up - believing it was the monster who killed his wife, Richard nearly balks at hearing the news. The MIB quickly backtracks, letting Richard know it was the devil that swiped Isabella and not him, hastily correcting what was almost too revealing a mistake.

The fact is, the MIB really can't help himself here. We learn that he holds Jacob responsible for stealing his form, and therefore his humanity. He can't even mask his anger long enough to lie. It's also obvious by now that the character being played by Titus Welliver probably isn't the original incarnation of the man who became the smoke monster, but likely just another human form he's taken for the time being.

Sometime, long ago, something happened between him and Jacob that ended with the dark man losing his physical form. The black smoke is all that's really left of the man he once was, and this is why he refuses to deny or lie about being the monster. To betray that one true image would be to deny all that's left of him, and the dark man is too proud to do so... even when lying his #@% off and creating a story where Jacob is the devil who took Richard's wife.

--Jason "I never thought about MIB being the boar or some of this other stuff-- Vozzek is a must read!" Evans

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Not sure how many of you are aware of him but there is a Lost fan who writes recaps every week that are just fabulous. His name is Vozzek69. His recap of Ab Aeterno (http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/03/wow-just-wow-things-i-noticed-ab.html#more) is really good and certainly worth reading.

It is long and there is tons of great stuff, but my favorite part was this--



--Jason "I never thought about MIB being the boar or some of this other stuff-- Vozzek is a must read!" Evans
Thanks that was great read. I plan to read more about this and the previous episodes.

[JasonEvans]

Thanks that was great read. I plan to read more about this and the previous episodes.

Be warned, if you wander around DarkUFO's site, you will stumble across spoilers. They are clearly marked on a spoiler page, but if you want to remain spoiler free-- as I do -- be careful about where you go on that site.

--Jason "Vozzek's posts are always spoiler free" Evans

[northernduke]

If the MIB can morph into animals, can Jacob? I only ask this in reference to the white polar bear from season one. I know Walt was reading a comic book with a polar bear, and at the time we were led to believe his "powers" made it appear on the tropical island. Just food for thought given the distinct color of the animal and Jacob's color.

[JasonEvans]

If the MIB can morph into animals, can Jacob? I only ask this in reference to the white polar bear from season one. I know Walt was reading a comic book with a polar bear, and at the time we were led to believe his "powers" made it appear on the tropical island. Just food for thought given the distinct color of the animal and Jacob's color.

Polar Bears-- that's another thing that will never be explained, I bet. I mean, we can all guess that Dharma brought them to the Island (recall the cages that are on the Hydra island and glimpses of Polar Bears in orientation films), but we will never be told why they brought Polar Bears there.

My kids are almost up to the episode where Eko gets attacked by the polar bears, I recall that being a really lame plot point.

-Jason "I think the Polar Bear was real, not MIB or Jacob" Evans

[Hoosier-Devil]

Ab Aeterno provided us the wine bottle as a metaphor for the island. Inside the bottle is the wine, which represents darkness/evil. The cork is the island, plugging the hole through which the wine seeks to escape.

Is the electromagnetic energy, which played such a large role in Season 2, foreshadowing or a metaphor for this wine bottle? Someone had to sit in the hatch [Desmond, then Locke -- I'm intrigued by Locke's (or Flocke's) contrasting roles in these scenarios], punching in the numbers to keep the electromagnetic energy from escaping. That person served as the cork.

Back in Season 2, did the writers purposefully make the storyline about the electromagnetic energy as foreshadowing or metaphor, with an eye toward the end of the series?

[JG Nothing]

Ab Aeterno provided us the wine bottle as a metaphor for the island. Inside the bottle is the wine, which represents darkness/evil. The cork is the island, plugging the hole through which the wine seeks to escape.

Is the electromagnetic energy, which played such a large role in Season 2, foreshadowing or a metaphor for this wine bottle? Someone had to sit in the hatch [Desmond, then Locke -- I'm intrigued by Locke's (or Flocke's) contrasting roles in these scenarios], punching in the numbers to keep the electromagnetic energy from escaping. That person served as the cork.

Back in Season 2, did the writers purposefully make the storyline about the electromagnetic energy as foreshadowing or metaphor, with an eye toward the end of the series?

Along those lines, if the island has sunk in the sideways world, does that mean the cork has been unplugged? IIRC, Flocke wants to destroy the island, so he can leave. I think there is a theory that the story in the sideways world represents what Flocke promises to the candidates for their cooperation. Are there any candidates or important passengers from Oceanic that we have not seen in the sideways world?

[JG Nothing]

I do agree that they are setting up Jacob = good and MIB = bad a bit too much, and I wonder if the truth is the reverse or some alternate more nuanced answer. I don't trust what either of them say at this point, they both seem self serving and manipulative.

If the difference between MIB and Jacob is really that black and white, then I will be very disappointed. I simply can't believe that Lindelof and Cuse would come up with such a complex and nuanced story only to have it come down to something as unimaginative as a struggle between what is essentially good and evil. There has to be a twist coming up. Things cannot be this obvious.

[JG Nothing]

If it were not for the black smoke killing people at random, I would be firmly in the MIB is good and Jacob is bad camp.



Really? It seems like they are portraying Flocke as a lying, scheming manipulator.

[ncexnyc]

Really? It seems like they are portraying Flocke as a lying, scheming manipulator.

I think TPTB have done a fairly good job of keeping things somewhat murky as to who the good guys are.

I'm still not sold on this being purely a good vs evil thing with dieties battling it out. I wouldn't be surprised if we get some kind of alien twist at the end. Would a god need a donkey wheel?

And to revisit an old storyline. Maybe the reason no one could carry a child to term on the island, was because it upset the balance.

[El_Diablo]

If the MIB can morph into animals, can Jacob? I only ask this in reference to the white polar bear from season one. I know Walt was reading a comic book with a polar bear, and at the time we were led to believe his "powers" made it appear on the tropical island. Just food for thought given the distinct color of the animal and Jacob's color.

There's also Kate's horse.

[El_Diablo]

Some observations:

-The ship that MIB and Jacob saw in the Season 5 finale was not the Black Rock.

-If the Black Rock departed from the Canary Islands for the New World, the island was somewhere in the Atlantic when the Black Rock shipwrecked in 1867. Atlantis?

-The depiction of the Black Rock history directly conflicts with The Lost Experience (in which the ship disappeared in 1881 after leaving Papua New Guinea). That's not canon though...so fine. But it also conflicts with the fact that Widmore purchased the first mate's journal of the ship's "final" voyage (which was supposedly in 1845) at an auction, after it was discovered in 1852 off the coast of Madagascar. The producers could have really picked any year for the shipwreck in this episode...why pick 1867 instead of maintaining some internal consistency? They couldn't have just been that sloppy, right? I guess the island could later go back in time, where it is found by pirates who take the journal before leaving. But that still doesn't explain why the final voyage supposedly occurred in 1845...

-As Jason mentioned, I felt that the tsunami explanation for the ship being in the middle of the island was really weak. They could have just had the island appear out of nowhere underneath the ship, amidst a blinding flash of light...that would remove the questions about how none of the trees were damaged by this tsunami. And it would maintain some consistency with the notion that the island moves around through time and space.

-Bringing people to the island in order simply to prove a point to MIB is a pretty lame explanation for why they're all there. I'm starting to feel like it's Trading Places...and the show will end with Jacob handing MIB a one-dollar bill for winning the bet. Even "finding Jacob's replacement" is a pretty underwhelming explanation. I'm sure they will flesh this out a lot more in the weeks to come...but I hope there's a different explanation that they haven't revealed yet.

[JasonEvans]

There's also Kate's horse.

We need answers to the Hurleybird!!

FWIW, the Black Rock journal bothers me too.

--Jason "my faith is currently teetering... I think they have been making up a ton of this as they go along" Evans

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I'm not getting the same fix i usally get when I watch lost, but i've invested five seasons on that show so i'm not going to stop now.

[DukieBoy]

So, here's my little story.

I watched part of the first season at the age of 14. I wasn't as interested then, so I kind of wandered off. This year, I decided I wanted to catch up, so I began trying to catch up on all the episodes through the first 5 seasons

It took me six weeks of off and on watching, but this episode is the first one I watched live. It definitely (and finally) answered some questions.

[El_Diablo]

-The ship that MIB and Jacob saw in the Season 5 finale was not the Black Rock.

Okay, so the producers claimed in last week's podcast that the S5 ship was indeed the Black Rock approaching the island, and that a storm kicked up right after the conversation finished. I guess the time change (middle of the day vs. night time) can be explained by either a really really really long transit in, or an example of the distortion of time that sometimes occurs when approaching or leaving the island.

Regarding the date discrepancy for the Black Rock's final voyage, it might just be an attempt to correct a previous continuity error. Dynamite wasn't patented until 1867, so any date before that (as in the auction dates attributed to the Black Rock's final voyage) could not have allowed the ship to be laden with the explosive. Considering how the dynamite recently came back into the storyline (with Richard's death wish) and how the auction may never again come into play, I imagine that they chose to sacrifice consistency with the dates given at the auction rather than perpetuate a continuity error that tied back into the current story.

[BluDevilGal]

The one thing that irked me that really has no bearing on the story whatsoever was that Ricardo refered to it as "the New World." Were people really still calling it that in 1867? Seems quite late for that!