Historic Defense

[stickdog]

Through its first 36 game, our current 2009-10 Duke team is holding its opponents to 61.0 points per game.

The last Duke team to hold its opponents under 62 points a game over a full season is the 1949-50 Blue Devils (in Dick Groat's first season).

[theAlaskanBear]

Through its first 36 game, our current 2009-10 Duke team is holding its opponents to 61.0 points per game.

The last Duke team to hold its opponents under 62 points a game over a full season is the 1949-50 Blue Devils (in Dick Groat's first season).

Thats awesome if we can keep it up, but it will be hard, because the quality of our opponents will improve mightily next weekend. If, god forbid, Duke ends up playing UK, one would thing Kentucky would quickly get frustrated, after getting comfortable against Wake's non-defense.

[MChambers]

Thats awesome if we can keep it up, but it will be hard, because the quality of our opponents will improve mightily next weekend. If, god forbid, Duke ends up playing UK, one would thing Kentucky would quickly get frustrated, after getting comfortable against Wake's non-defense.

If you believe Pomeroy, Cal is pretty comparable to Purdue (with Hummel) and Baylor, significantly better than St. Mary's.

[weezie]

It has truly been amazing to watch what this team is capable of on defense.
"Smothering" only begins to describe what other teams experience when they step into the ring against Duke. And the maturation of the freshmen since November is simply wonderous!
Even with short stints by Kelly and Dawkins, their man to man is something we haven't seen in a long time even here at Duke. W-o-w,

[DukieInBrasil]

It has truly been amazing to watch what this team is capable of on defense.
"Smothering" only begins to describe what other teams experience when they step into the ring against Duke. And the maturation of the freshmen since November is simply wonderous!
Even with short stints by Kelly and Dawkins, their man to man is something we haven't seen in a long time even here at Duke. W-o-w,

I agree, I would only add that the maturation of the Fr. + Miles since TWO WEEKS AGO has been wonderous. I only wish that K had let Ryan, Andre, Jordan, Steve and the mid-season walk-on, Todd Zafirovski, have the floor vs. Cal for the last minute when we were up by 15 already.
When our 2 NCAAT games are averaged into the equation, our average ppg allowed has fallen somewhat. Conversely, this would allow for our D to give up slightly more pts going forward to maintain that historically low ppg D. Obviously, I don't want that to happen, I hope we crush PU even more than we crushed Cal. Giving up, oh say, 8 points for the game would be sweet.

[BD80]

Let's not get carried away. Stats are just stats. A lot of factors play into this.

One, we played one of the weakest schedules we have ever played. Thus, we were able to hold weaker teams to fewer points. I am not saying we CHOSE a weaker schedule, but the ACC was down (again) and our OOC opponents did not have as good of seasons as expected.

Two, my favorite, STALL BALL. Due to a limited depth in the backcourt, K has taken the air out and shortened games more than in other years, leading to fewer points by opposing teams.

Three, rebounding. Z's emergence and moving Singler to the "3" (thus now playing three "bigs" where we used to play two) has allowed us to dominate the boards, lessening second chance points for opponents, and to contest put-backs when opponents do get offensive rebounds.

This is not to say we are not playing good or better defense. We are. Which leads to the fourth factor

Hedge and help. Z has improved so much on helping on picks and recovering, and that allowed Coach K to keep the MPs on the bench if they didn't fully commit to "D." Our helpside defense is really good and has been improving each game.

We are playing the kind of defense that gets teams to the final four. If we start making shots ...

[JohnGalt]

Three, rebounding. Z's emergence and moving Singler to the "3" (thus now playing three "bigs" where we used to play two) has allowed us to dominate the boards, lessening second chance points for opponents, and to contest put-backs when opponents do get offensive rebounds.

To expand a bit...How about our offensive rebounding? I can't ever remember a Duke team that creates as many second chance opportunities through offensive rebounding as this team does. The unselfishness is truly special. For a team as 'unathletic' as Duke is, they sure do manage to run down a plethora of tipouts, lose balls, and long rebounds...

[striker219]

Giving up, oh say, 8 points for the game would be sweet.

Considering that this Purdue team struggled to score 11 in one half against Minnesota I honestly don't think that a single digit half entirely is out of the question. Unlikely, but not impossible. While that game was an anomaly, Purdue is not exactly an offensive powerhouse. Their defense will be on point Friday, and it won't be an easy game, but if our D plays as well as it is capable I could see us only giving up 8, at least in one half.

[DukeUsul]

Hedge and help. Z has improved so much on helping on picks and recovering, and that allowed Coach K to keep the MPs on the bench if they didn't fully commit to "D." Our helpside defense is really good and has been improving each game.



THIS.

Not only is Z so good at hedging without fouling these days, he is the best of the bigs at getting back to cover his man after the guard defender gets around the screen and back on ball. That's something that Miles and Mason still need to get better at.

[JohnGalt]

THIS.

Not only is Z so good at hedging without fouling these days, he is the best of the bigs at getting back to cover his man after the guard defender gets around the screen and back on ball. That's something that Miles and Mason still need to get better at.

He hedges and the refs don't call it, but I have to say that every time I'm waiting for that moving screen call. He shimmies, slides his hips every time...I'll keep my fingers crossed it continues to go unnoticed...

[Richard Berg]

One, we played one of the weakest schedules we have ever played. Thus, we were able to hold weaker teams to fewer points. I am not saying we CHOSE a weaker schedule, but the ACC was down (again) and our OOC opponents did not have as good of seasons as expected.

Two, my favorite, STALL BALL. Due to a limited depth in the backcourt, K has taken the air out and shortened games more than in other years, leading to fewer points by opposing teams.

Three, rebounding. Z's emergence and moving Singler to the "3" (thus now playing three "bigs" where we used to play two) has allowed us to dominate the boards, lessening second chance points for opponents, and to contest put-backs when opponents do get offensive rebounds.
KenPom, which takes all of these things into account, has moved us up to the #3 defensive team in the nation. I believe we were in the neighborhood of #10 going into ACCT and stayed there until last Friday.

Here's the Sweet Sixteen's defensive efficiency ranks:
#3 - Duke
#4 - Purdue (doesn't account for Hummel's injury, though they've now played several games since then)
#7 - Tennessee
#8 - Kentucky
#10 - Butler
#14 - Syracuse
#15 - Kansas St
#19 - Northern Iowa
#22 - West Virginia
#23 - Ohio St
#31 - Michigan St
#34 - Washington
#37 - Xavier
#39 - Baylor
#83 - St. Mary's
#135 - Cornell

Interestingly, most of the "Cinderellas" this year rely on high-octane O (eg Cornell looked like a slightly less insane version of William & Mary) rather than defensive cohesion. I suppose it's not surprising since KenPom measures efficiency -- allowing things like savvy passing & shot selection to factor in just as heavily as raw scoring talent -- while on the defensive end, beyond a certain apex of coaching & teamwork, there's simply no substitute for quick feet.

[CDu]

KenPom, which takes all of these things into account, has moved us up to the #3 defensive team in the nation. I believe we were in the neighborhood of #10 going into ACCT and stayed there until last Friday.

Here's the Sweet Sixteen's defensive efficiency ranks:
#3 - Duke
#4 - Purdue (doesn't account for Hummel's injury, though they've now played several games since then)
#7 - Tennessee
#8 - Kentucky
#10 - Butler
#14 - Syracuse
#15 - Kansas St
#19 - Northern Iowa
#22 - West Virginia
#23 - Ohio St
#31 - Michigan St
#34 - Washington
#37 - Xavier
#39 - Baylor
#83 - St. Mary's
#135 - Cornell

Interestingly, most of the "Cinderellas" this year rely on high-octane O (eg Cornell looked like a slightly less insane version of William & Mary) rather than defensive cohesion. I suppose it's not surprising since KenPom measures efficiency -- allowing things like savvy passing & shot selection to factor in just as heavily as raw scoring talent -- while on the defensive end, beyond a certain apex of coaching & teamwork, there's simply no substitute for quick feet.

In the seven games since the injury, they've had a defensive efficiency of 89.6. That's not adjusted for quality of opponent, but I'm guessing that they'd remain in the top 5 defensively with that kind of rating. They've only allowed a team an efficiency of 100+ in one game (102.7 in a loss to Minnesota).

Amazingly, they've maintained a fantastic defense in spite of losing one of their only two key big guys. Where Hummel has really hurt them is on the offensive end. With Hummel they were regularly in the 110s and 120s in efficiency and rarely below 100 (and never below 90). Without Hummel, they've topped 100 in only three of seven games, and they've been below 90 three times (below 70 twice).

[SharkD]

One, we played one of the weakest schedules we have ever played. Thus, we were able to hold weaker teams to fewer points. I am not saying we CHOSE a weaker schedule, but the ACC was down (again) and our OOC opponents did not have as good of seasons as expected.

I thought our Overall Strength of Schedule was #2 or 3, in the nation?

[Classof06]

I applaud whoever started this thread, because this team plays the best defense I've seen in a long time.

People see the name Duke and automatically assume we launch 3s and play good enough defense to get by. To be clear, Duke is not that great of an offensive team this year. We're certainly not sub-par and have 3 players that can put 25 on you on any given night, but we're not routinely putting up the 80-90 points a game like some Duke teams of the past.

Duke is where it is right now because we're a great defensive and rebounding team, hands down.


@BD80 - Duke had the #10 SOS (strength of schedule) in the country this season.

[CDu]

I thought our Overall Strength of Schedule was #2 or 3, in the nation?

It's top-10. Not quite top-2, but definitely not a weak schedule.

[OldPhiKap]

It's top-10. Not quite top-2, but definitely not a weak schedule.

Playing UNC twice brought us down.

[pfrduke]

I applaud whoever started this thread, because this team plays the best defense I've seen in a long time.

People see the name Duke and automatically assume we launch 3s and play good enough defense to get by. To be clear, Duke is not that great of an offensive team this year. We're certainly not sub-par and have 3 players that can put 25 on you on any given night, but we're not routinely putting up the 80-90 points a game like some Duke teams of the past.

Just because:


we're not routinely putting up the 80-90 points a game like some Duke teams of the past.

does not mean:

To be clear, Duke is not that great of an offensive team this year.

Duke has actually been a very, very, very good offensive team this year, thanks to low turnovers, lots of offensive rebounds, and converting well from the line (when we get there). We don't score as many points because we play slower. But we score more points per possession than all but 6 teams in the country, and schedule-adjusted, our offense was the 2nd most efficient in the nation (behind only Kansas). This was not merely a product of early season blowouts - our offensive efficiency outpaced the average in the ACC by a substantial margin.

[MChambers]

I was very skeptical before the season regarding Duke's defense, because Duke under Coach K has emphasized extended pressure defense, and we didn't have the personnel to do it this season. Time to eat my words.

Hats off to the coaches and players for a new defensive scheme that has worked amazingly well.

[cptnflash]

Duke has actually been a very, very, very good offensive team this year, thanks to low turnovers, lots of offensive rebounds, and converting well from the line (when we get there). We don't score as many points because we play slower. But we score more points per possession than all but 6 teams in the country, and schedule-adjusted, our offense was the 2nd most efficient in the nation (behind only Kansas). This was not merely a product of early season blowouts - our offensive efficiency outpaced the average in the ACC by a substantial margin.

Amen. And not only has our offense been better than our defense overall this year, it's also been much more consistent. The standard deviation of our raw offensive efficiency is 14.2 (in points per 100 possessions), vs. a stdev of 15.6 on the defensive end. And as I've pointed out before, all of our losses except G/T have been primarily a result of poor defense. That's why yesterday's performance against Cal is so encouraging (albeit with some extra scouting help that we won't get again... thank you JD!).

One other interesting note... there are NO teams left in the tournament (besides us) with an offense as good as Cal's. None. The next best offense still remaining is Baylor's. Could be some fireworks in Houston next Sunday!

[OldPhiKap]

Amen. And not only has our offense been better than our defense overall this year, it's also been much more consistent. The standard deviation of our raw offensive efficiency is 14.2 (in points per 100 possessions), vs. a stdev of 15.6 on the defensive end. And as I've pointed out before, all of our losses except G/T have been primarily a result of poor defense. That's why yesterday's performance against Cal is so encouraging (albeit with some extra scouting help that we won't get again... thank you JD!).

One other interesting note... there are NO teams left in the tournament (besides us) with an offense as good as Cal's. None. The next best offense still remaining is Baylor's. Could be some fireworks in Houston next Sunday!

Our shooting % is misleading because we get so many offensive rebounds. As mentioned above, the points per possession is a better indicia of where we are. As K has said, we are a good offensive team and a great defensive team. We will need to kick it up a bit in Houston but this team is on a great trajectory right now. Playing our best basketball in March!

[Dukeface88]

Just because:



does not mean:


Duke has actually been a very, very, very good offensive team this year, thanks to low turnovers, lots of offensive rebounds, and converting well from the line (when we get there). We don't score as many points because we play slower. But we score more points per possession than all but 6 teams in the country, and schedule-adjusted, our offense was the 2nd most efficient in the nation (behind only Kansas). This was not merely a product of early season blowouts - our offensive efficiency outpaced the average in the ACC by a substantial margin.

I think what's fooling people with regard to our offensive is how few possesions per game we have. We're much more methodical this year than in the past. Using motion and picks to break down defenses instead of, for example, having G go one-on-one simply takes more time, so we often flirt with the end of shot clock even when we aren't in stall ball mode. The other factor is the defense. With less press, we also slow down opposing offenses - they can't rely on going one-on-one out on the perimeter either. There's also the fact that we have very few quick transition possesions due to the lack of steals.

[BD80]

... there's simply no substitute for quick feet.

I would suggest one or two long, athletic shotblockers would be an adequate substitute. They turn opponents into jump shooters and limit second chance points = lower offensive efficiency. Why do you think UK is so high on the list?


... @BD80 - Duke had the #10 SOS (strength of schedule) in the country this season.

The original post was comparing our ppg defense compared to past years. While I do think we are playing better defense than in recent years, it is not the best defensive team since 1950.

Our SOS may be top 10 this year, but we certainly haven't faced a murders' row of offensive firepower. Compare this year's schedule to some of the schedules we played back in the days when we could string final fours together. We had some outstanding defensive teams back then, but the ppg may not have been as good because we played better teams, and we scored more points and more quickly (giving the opposing teams more possessions to score more points).

[Richard Berg]

I would suggest one or two long, athletic shotblockers would be an adequate substitute. They turn opponents into jump shooters and limit second chance points = lower offensive efficiency. Why do you think UK is so high on the list?
Well sure. But players like Singleton or Henson are even rarer among the mid-major ranks than fleet-footed perimeter lockdowns are (think DeMarcus, or maybe Ginyard).

[Chitowndevil]

THIS.

Not only is Z so good at hedging without fouling these days, he is the best of the bigs at getting back to cover his man after the guard defender gets around the screen and back on ball. That's something that Miles and Mason still need to get better at.

Props to BD80 for pointing this out. IMO, the single biggest difference in our defense the last couple of weeks is the footwork by our big men. Zoubek and both Plumlees have been terrific at getting out and bothering shooters on ball screens and then recovering on cuts to the basket.

Zoubek has also become a monster statistically. He leads the nation with 21.1% of available misses rebounded offensively, and is in the top 40 nationally with 24.4% of misses rebounded on the defensive end. According to Pomeroy, his offensive rating (points generated per 100 possessions used) is 118.3, 102nd in the country, and behind only Jon Scheyer on the team.

As long as I'm waxing Pomeroy, Duke's defensive efficiency of 85.2 is the best since 2005. Their offensive efficiency of 121.0 is the best since 2004. With Kansas gone, Duke is now the only team left in the field which ranks in the top 10 in both offensive (2nd) and defensive (3rd) efficiency.

[OldPhiKap]

Props to BD80 for pointing this out. IMO, the single biggest difference in our defense the last couple of weeks is the footwork by our big men. Zoubek and both Plumlees have been terrific at getting out and bothering shooters on ball screens and then recovering on cuts to the basket.

Zoubek has also become a monster statistically. He leads the nation with 21.1% of available misses rebounded offensively, and is in the top 40 nationally with 24.4% of misses rebounded on the defensive end. According to Pomeroy, his offensive rating (points generated per 100 possessions used) is 118.3, 102nd in the country, and behind only Jon Scheyer on the team.

As long as I'm waxing Pomeroy, Duke's defensive efficiency of 85.2 is the best since 2005. Their offensive efficiency of 121.0 is the best since 2004. With Kansas gone, Duke is now the only team left in the field which ranks in the top 10 in both offensive (2nd) and defensive (3rd) efficiency.

And don't forget Lance. You cannot measure his leadership, toughness and energy by statistics.

[NM Duke Fan]

I recently have been amazed at Zoubek's footwork on hedging and screens, his lateral movement is much improved and he has been out there bothering some small players! He recovers quickly and is in position to pull down boards or tip in a shot. I have no doubt that some NBA scouts are at the least taking notice of his improved mobility.

[BD80]

Well sure. But players like Singleton or Henson are even rarer among the mid-major ranks than fleet-footed perimeter lockdowns are (think DeMarcus, or maybe Ginyard).

Sorry, I didn't mean to appear disagree with your point, each defender moving his feet is critical to how well we are playing. It will be interesting to see how the MPs react next year without the influence/competition of Z and LT. They tend to value the block more than the proper position. A big key to next season will be how totally they buy into the defense.

I thought Randle/Montgomery executed an interesting offensive strategy, Randle would use a pick around the foul line, feint toward the lane to engage Zoub, take a dribble back, and then follow Zoub down the lane as Zoub turned to recover, using Zoub as a moving pick.

[devildownunder]

I applaud whoever started this thread, because this team plays the best defense I've seen in a long time.

People see the name Duke and automatically assume we launch 3s and play good enough defense to get by. To be clear, Duke is not that great of an offensive team this year. We're certainly not sub-par and have 3 players that can put 25 on you on any given night, but we're not routinely putting up the 80-90 points a game like some Duke teams of the past.

Duke is where it is right now because we're a great defensive and rebounding team, hands down.


@BD80 - Duke had the #10 SOS (strength of schedule) in the country this season.

Boy, you said it about assumptions. Just had an exchange via message board with a guy who claims to have followed duke since the late 80s and refers to K as a "scheme guy" whose teams do nothing but rely on a dribble-drive-kick offense designed to launch 3pointers. I pointed out our 3pt, defensive and rebounding stats in context this year and he grudgingly admitted that K had reworked things some this season but still insisted it was all built around 3s. He also was pushing the "unathletic big men" myth. He actually watched the cal game and found confirmation. Many people just cannot say "I was wrong". They'll go to any ridiculous lengths to avoid it.