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BD80
03-18-2010, 04:48 PM
Report: OU's Gallon took money from agent

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/20514076?tag=headlines;other


Oklahoma freshman Keith "Tiny" Gallon received a $3,000 wire transfer from a sports agent before the start of the season, according to a TMZ.com story filed early Thursday

Calipari is probably laughing. He'll tell his guys that WWW pays ten times that.

Richard Berg
03-18-2010, 05:16 PM
As much as I'd like to see Calipari go down in flames, I wish the NCAA would remove the stick from our collective [insert wanker filter] already. Only in America -- world leader in free market capitalism -- is it considered a bad thing for talented young men to make a living doing something they love.

El_Diablo
03-18-2010, 05:37 PM
As much as I'd like to see Calipari go down in flames, I wish the NCAA would remove the stick from our collective [insert wanker filter] already. Only in America -- world leader in free market capitalism -- is it considered a bad thing for talented young men to make a living doing something they love.

It's ironic that you mention capitalism. :) That's why the system is in place. Please register your complaints here (http://www.nba.com/email_us/contact_us.html).

ChicagoCrazy84
03-18-2010, 05:41 PM
As much as I'd like to see Calipari go down in flames, I wish the NCAA would remove the stick from our collective [insert wanker filter] already. Only in America -- world leader in free market capitalism -- is it considered a bad thing for talented young men to make a living doing something they love.


Really? He'll have plenty of time to do that when/if he is in the pros whether it be in the NBA, Europe, Asia or wherever. The fact is, by taking money from an agent, he forfeited his amateur status and his right to play college basketball. End of story. It's no different for any of the other 1,000+ college basketball players across the country. Just because you get to play for Oklahoma rather than East Tennessee St. it does not give you the right to profit from it. Playing D1 college basketball is a privilege and he tried taking advantage of it. I hope he and they get what's coming.

Lord Ash
03-18-2010, 05:51 PM
Very sorry to hear this:(

miramar
03-18-2010, 06:14 PM
I am amazed about how brazen (or dumb, I'm not sure which) the agents are getting now that they are sending wire transfers to players.

We have gone from under the table payments to over the table payments.

oldnavy
03-18-2010, 07:58 PM
As much as I'd like to see Calipari go down in flames, I wish the NCAA would remove the stick from our collective [insert wanker filter] already. Only in America -- world leader in free market capitalism -- is it considered a bad thing for talented young men to make a living doing something they love.

I kind of thought that the tuition, meal passes, free room and board, books, etc... (i.e., free education) counted as compensation. All the non-scholarships students have to pay their way through school. I shed no tears for these kids getting to play a game they love and get an education for doing it. They are blessed and are fortunate like all of us to live in this country.

DukeGirl4ever
03-18-2010, 08:05 PM
I kind of thought that the tuition, meal passes, free room and board, books, etc... (i.e., free education) counted as compensation. All the non-scholarships students have to pay their way through school. I shed no tears for these kids getting to play a game they love and get an education for doing it. They are blessed and are fortunate like all of us to live in this country.

I totally agree! I received a college scholarship for basketball (ah, the golden years) and had a $25,000/year education paid for and my meals, books, room/board, food were paid for. That also included basketball/running sneakers, practice gear, sweat suits, jackets, and the $15/day we got over winter break for meals since all the university stores were closed. The only thing I had to pay for in my 4 years was my phone and cable bill and I was at LOW D1 school.

I consider myself EXTREMELY fortunate today as I don't have student loans to pay back for the rest of my life and I was able to get myself started on the right foot. The way I see it, I was paid to play ball in college!

These kids/agents are just idiots for jeopardizing their playing status! Wait a few years and if you're good enough, you'll get paid your dues in the NBA!

BD80
03-18-2010, 08:37 PM
... I was at LOW D1 school. ...

You went to unc?

Ultrarunner
03-18-2010, 09:06 PM
You went to unc?

That's just mean! :D

DukeGirl4ever
03-18-2010, 09:14 PM
You went to unc?

HAHA - I didn't say CLASSLESS! :D

I went to LaSalle...in my eyes, that's the lower end of the D1 spectrum.

BD80
03-18-2010, 09:27 PM
HAHA - I didn't say CLASSLESS! :D

I went to LaSalle...in my eyes, that's the lower end of the D1 spectrum.

Classless? You mean like John Wall's second semester at UK?

No, you probably had to go to class at LaSalle.

Spret42
03-18-2010, 09:42 PM
I am as critical of the NCAA and the system of for profit big time college athletics as the next person and I believe so called amateurism in American sport is a complete and total crock. But it isn't as if the athletes don't know the deal going in. You can't take money. Plain and simple.

This can all be solved with the NBA creating a legitimate minor league the way baseball and hockey have. The day the NBA steps up and creates a way for young men who are talented enough but not quite ready to play and learn the game while making a decent salary will be a good day.

DukeGirl4ever
03-18-2010, 09:55 PM
Classless? You mean like John Wall's second semester at UK?

No, you probably had to go to class at LaSalle.

Psh, I thought that was Kentucky's WHOLE TEAM!

Yea, classes at LaSalle were a must and it's not like leaving early for pro ball for us ladies is/was an option (and def. not any player going to LaSalle - haha).

Richard Berg
03-18-2010, 10:10 PM
The NBA is a for-profit monopoly. It has its own motives, which quite understandably diverge from what we'd consider to be best for young athletes and/or the sport.

Luckily, we already have another organization whose self-appointed mission is to promote the welfare of student-athletes. Consequently, whatever archaic rules & red tape those athletes encounter can & should be laid directly at the NCAA's feet.* They're the direct cause of "incidents" like Gallon's. I don't see any reason to apologize for them.

*exception: the 5 or so players who would be drafted straight from high school were it not for the NBA's one-and-done rule. That's not the NCAA's fault. But whatever you think of the Derrick Rose / Greg Oden / etc situation -- I don't like it either -- it's utterly insignificant compared with what the NCAA imposes on tens of thousands of their peers.

Leck
03-19-2010, 01:09 AM
looks like tiny is the one who made the mistakes here. hopefully this doesn't turn into something messy like quinn snyder's exit from mizzou.

uh_no
03-19-2010, 02:52 AM
I am as critical of the NCAA and the system of for profit big time college athletics as the next person and I believe so called amateurism in American sport is a complete and total crock. But it isn't as if the athletes don't know the deal going in. You can't take money. Plain and simple.

This can all be solved with the NBA creating a legitimate minor league the way baseball and hockey have. The day the NBA steps up and creates a way for young men who are talented enough but not quite ready to play and learn the game while making a decent salary will be a good day.

you need to do some fact checking!

please do me a favor and take a look at this page

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/About%20The%20NCAA/Budget%20and%20Finances/

it seems to indicated that several hundred million dollars a year.....in fact most of the NCAA's total income, is redistributed back to member institutions.....

ANYWAY, there was about 37 million in reserve out of a 710 million dollar budget...you could call this 'profit' if you wanted...because it kinda is......so theres about 380,000 NCAA athletes.....so we'll say 38 million dollars to split....that leaves a whopping 100 dollars per athlete!

tell the NCAA fat cats its time to pay the piper!

i think jon scheyer will be overjoyed to get his franklin in the mail!

A-Tex Devil
03-19-2010, 11:01 AM
I am amazed about how brazen (or dumb, I'm not sure which) the agents are getting now that they are sending wire transfers to players.

We have gone from under the table payments to over the table payments.

You have to remember that these guys could care less about college basketball and whether the players get suspended or not. The sooner Tiny Gallon is in the NBA (or even Europe or NBDL) the sooner the agent gets a cut.

The business plan of these guys that are preying on high school kids is to get these guys a contract as soon as possible so they can get a cut. You are also right that some of the agents are just dumb, too. They see a kid like Tiny Gallon dominate his high school, they sidle up to him, give him money in return for promised return, not even realizing that the kid isn't really that good.

There is also a little bit of "throw a bunch of money against a wall and see what sticks," because the big payouts will make up for the losses. It's sad for the kids.

78Devil
03-19-2010, 11:11 AM
Okay, okay. But let's forget the theory. What does this mean for Capel?

james
03-19-2010, 11:11 AM
Psh, I thought that was Kentucky's WHOLE TEAM!

Yea, classes at LaSalle were a must and it's not like leaving early for pro ball for us ladies is/was an option (and def. not any player going to LaSalle - haha).

LaSalle has one win in the NCAA Tournament, ever: Over Connecticut, in 1989.

Matches
03-19-2010, 11:16 AM
Okay, okay. But let's forget the theory. What does this mean for Capel?

It means his team is likely to (at minimum) forfeit any games they won this season, and possibly face further NCAA sanctions.

Assuming that Capel did not know of the wire transfer (which he most likely did not), there probably will be no personal consequences for him. It's a blow to his program, though.

A-Tex Devil
03-19-2010, 11:35 AM
It means his team is likely to (at minimum) forfeit any games they won this season, and possibly face further NCAA sanctions.

Assuming that Capel did not know of the wire transfer (which he most likely did not), there probably will be no personal consequences for him. It's a blow to his program, though.

Capel is in trouble at OU, though, if the recruiting doesn't pick up. Willie Warren is likely gone this year. OU was also significantly better when Tommy Mason-Griffith was their primary ballhandler, and Warren isn't as good of a player without the ball in his hands. Whether the fact that those two aren't very good on the court at the same time is Capel's fault or theirs isn't completely clear.

TMG is a stud. I really like the kid. He's like a musclebound Khalid el Amin and has some real cajones on the court. They may lose him along with Willie Warren and now Gallon, and if all 3 go, OU is Indiana/Iowa bad next year. Capel might not survive that.

BD80
03-19-2010, 01:11 PM
Capel is in trouble at OU, though, if the recruiting doesn't pick up. ...

TMG is a stud. ... They may lose him along with Willie Warren and now Gallon, and if all 3 go, OU is Indiana/Iowa bad next year. Capel might not survive that.

Maybe we can loan him Nate for a couple of weeks, that should get OU four or five top 60 recruits.

Spret42
03-19-2010, 01:16 PM
you need to do some fact checking!

please do me a favor and take a look at this page

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/About%20The%20NCAA/Budget%20and%20Finances/

it seems to indicated that several hundred million dollars a year.....in fact most of the NCAA's total income, is redistributed back to member institutions.....

ANYWAY, there was about 37 million in reserve out of a 710 million dollar budget...you could call this 'profit' if you wanted...because it kinda is......so theres about 380,000 NCAA athletes.....so we'll say 38 million dollars to split....that leaves a whopping 100 dollars per athlete!

tell the NCAA fat cats its time to pay the piper!

i think jon scheyer will be overjoyed to get his franklin in the mail!

The NCAA (and its member institutions) pulls down $638 million in one year on TV and marketing rights (primarily from the BCS and NCAA basketball tournament) and you equate all 380,000 NCAA athletes as equals. Really?

Of course the NCAA distributes the money to the institutions. They are stockholders and investors, they provided the capital (the athletes on scholarship). Of course the schools want to keep this thing going.

Again. I don't think athletes should get paid a dime. You play in trade for the education. Deal with it. But please don't sell me on big time "amateur intercollegiate athletics", specifically football and basketball, as anything more than a money making device for the schools and the NCAA.

Basketball and football need a legit minor league systems so young athletes have the same options they have in other major sports, i.e. baseball, soccer, hockey. I just think ti would be better if every young person could choose between the two when their is a market for their talents.

monkey
03-19-2010, 02:15 PM
The NCAA (and its member institutions) pulls down $638 million in one year on TV and marketing rights (primarily from the BCS and NCAA basketball tournament) and you equate all 380,000 NCAA athletes as equals. Really?

Of course the NCAA distributes the money to the institutions. They are stockholders and investors, they provided the capital (the athletes on scholarship). Of course the schools want to keep this thing going.

Again. I don't think athletes should get paid a dime. You play in trade for the education. Deal with it. But please don't sell me on big time "amateur intercollegiate athletics", specifically football and basketball, as anything more than a money making device for the schools and the NCAA.

Basketball and football need a legit minor league systems so young athletes have the same options they have in other major sports, i.e. baseball, soccer, hockey. I just think ti would be better if every young person could choose between the two when their is a market for their talents.

Generally agree with you about athletes getting paid. Regarding minor leagues, isn't that why they started the NBDL? Plus, there's the foreign league option now though (of course, doesn't seemed to have worked out too well for Jeremy Tyler)

uh_no
03-19-2010, 02:32 PM
The NCAA (and its member institutions) pulls down $638 million in one year on TV and marketing rights (primarily from the BCS and NCAA basketball tournament) and you equate all 380,000 NCAA athletes as equals. Really?

Of course the NCAA distributes the money to the institutions. They are stockholders and investors, they provided the capital (the athletes on scholarship). Of course the schools want to keep this thing going.

Again. I don't think athletes should get paid a dime. You play in trade for the education. Deal with it. But please don't sell me on big time "amateur intercollegiate athletics", specifically football and basketball, as anything more than a money making device for the schools and the NCAA.

Basketball and football need a legit minor league systems so young athletes have the same options they have in other major sports, i.e. baseball, soccer, hockey. I just think ti would be better if every young person could choose between the two when their is a market for their talents.

you didn't even look at the link did you.....710 million encompasses the NCAA's TOTAL GROSS INCOME for a year.....so before you go sprouting your BS, perhaps you should at least take a look at the budget sheet

you know what schools do with all that money that comes from football and basketball?

pay for other sports like track and xc and field hockey which lose money each year.....the ncaa uses football and basketball to make money to fund the sports which are not self sustaining

and okay suppose you say all athletes are not equal....how are you gonna say yeah you guys play D1 sports at the same school, you get paid you don't.....do we pay scheyer and leave kelly off the gravy train? what about seth? does he get paid this year?

and yes I completely agree with you that the 200+k that students get to get a degree is their 'payment' where we seem to disagree is that you don't seem to think the NCAA and schools do anything productive with that money.....who do you think payed for new world record holder Curtis Beach to go to indoor nationals? (you probably don't know who he is)....who pays his coach? (hint its not the big TV deal that the track team has....nor their massive ticket sales.....)

Spret42
03-19-2010, 02:38 PM
you didn't even look at the link did you.....710 million encompasses the NCAA's TOTAL GROSS INCOME for a year.....so before you go sprouting your BS, perhaps you should at least take a look at the budget sheet

you know what schools do with all that money that comes from football and basketball?

pay for other sports like track and xc and field hockey which lose money each year.....the ncaa uses football and basketball to make money to fund the sports which are not self sustaining

and okay suppose you say all athletes are not equal....how are you gonna say yeah you guys play D1 sports at the same school, you get paid you don't.....do we pay scheyer and leave kelly off the gravy train? what about seth? does he get paid this year?

and yes I completely agree with you that the 200+k that students get to get a degree is their 'payment' where we seem to disagree is that you don't seem to think the NCAA and schools do anything productive with that money.....who do you think payed for new world record holder Curtis Beach to go to indoor nationals? (you probably don't know who he is)....who pays his coach? (hint its not the big TV deal that the track team has....nor their massive ticket sales.....)

When did I EVER say they don't do anything productive with the money? All I ever said was I was critical of the for profit portion of the NCAA. I have certain issues with certain things.

You decided I was on a crusade against the NCAA as whole and started using phrases like "fat cats" and threw their budget in my face.

I know they pay for things. I know that good comes from the money. I simply said I was critical of them. It is a large organization that makes some major TV deals etc.

"We seem to disagree." You pulled an entire disagreement out of one sentence, one small phrase from one sentence.
Jeez.

Spret42
03-19-2010, 02:50 PM
And for the record I spent 2 hours with the link. I found it fascinating.

Of the 710 million in revenue, GROSS revenue, 638 million came from TV and Marketing rights. That means a huge portion of the NCAA revenue comes from televising and marketing football and basketball. They they pay their expenses and distribute the rest. Makes perfect sense.

So yes, I am concerned about the use of certain small portion of NCAA student athletes efforts to almost completely and totally subsidize huge portions of schools athletic and support budgets.

I am not sure it is completely fair. I am not sure in the least how I would make it completely fair. Does that mean I want the whole thing torn down? Of course not. I am critical of certain things and would like to see some things changed.

Edit: Next time before going into attack mode, ask the person you feel you may disagree with to clarify specifically what they have a problem with etc. Pursue a dialogue before throwing bomb-phrases like "you need to some fact checking" around. You get farther.

devildownunder
03-19-2010, 03:47 PM
Really? He'll have plenty of time to do that when/if he is in the pros whether it be in the NBA, Europe, Asia or wherever. The fact is, by taking money from an agent, he forfeited his amateur status and his right to play college basketball. End of story. It's no different for any of the other 1,000+ college basketball players across the country. Just because you get to play for Oklahoma rather than East Tennessee St. it does not give you the right to profit from it. Playing D1 college basketball is a privilege and he tried taking advantage of it. I hope he and they get what's coming.

He doesn't have the legal right to make money beyond his scholarship, that's not debatable. Whether the situation as it is now is morally right is highly debatable. I would argue that it is exploitative, hypocritical and sure to lead to abuse and violations -- by the student-athletes and the people wooing them -- in many cases.

Richard Berg
03-19-2010, 06:55 PM
To be clear, I was in no way suggesting that the NCAA start paying athletes. I'm advocating that they drop the "amateur student" charade. Focus their efforts on regulating academic integrity [aka a level playing field] among member institutions, and leave students the heck alone.

When I received an academic fellowship, Duke didn't demand exclusive rights to my brain. On the contrary, entrepreneurship was a common & valued trait among my peers. The economics of basketball are different, of course -- but the notion that barring a student from earning income based on his talents is somehow doing them a favor sounds no less ridiculous.

mapei
03-19-2010, 07:12 PM
I'm on board with the real minor league option. Making kids pretend to go to school for an NBA audition is a sham for all involved.

BD80
03-19-2010, 07:40 PM
... When I received an academic fellowship, Duke didn't demand exclusive rights to my brain. On the contrary, entrepreneurship was a common & valued trait among my peers. The economics of basketball are different, of course -- but the notion that barring a student from earning income based on his talents is somehow doing them a favor sounds no less ridiculous.

I wouldn't be so hasty. Ever read the Intellectual Property Rights Agreement most grad students, and many students on science fellowship, have to sign? It has been a few years, but I ended up taking a patent case to the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals to win BACK patents that a doctoral student at WVU had filed on inventions he conceived years AFTER leaving WVU. I got involved years into the dispute, and convinced the appeals court to overturn Summary Judgment on the contract issue. There were multiple patents and those were filed throughout the world. WVU simply claimed them all, and the judge initially AGREED! If it even "related" to the matter for which the student had received the "benefit" of a scholarship, it belonged to the university. Even if the value far outweighed the benefit conveyed.

The issue of the NCAA's profiting from the use of the athletes' likeness is similar. It relates to the reason they are receiving a scholarship. Just because the value of the "likeness" of some athletes is greater than the value of others, it does not change the underlying right of the NCAA (via the school's agreement to create the NCAA) to control the profit from the use of the athlete's likeness while on scholarship. The athletes are not forced to sign the scholarship tender, they are free to profit from their skills in a different forum if they so choose.

As a practical matter, even if one just considers the basketball profession, the athletes benefit from the NCAA to a great extent, it gives them the opportunity to hone their skills and tremendous publicity. The NCAA invested greatly in providing leagues and rules and referees and developing the structure of something that is now so popular and profitable.

BTW, the poor judge HATED our case and wasn't pleased with me for plopping it back on his docket. Subsequent arguments before him got him to understand our point. Just as we convinced WVU to return everything, the judge died before we could place a settlement on the record. It was BY FAR his oldest case ever.

Spret42
03-19-2010, 08:33 PM
Generally agree with you about athletes getting paid. Regarding minor leagues, isn't that why they started the NBDL? Plus, there's the foreign league option now though (of course, doesn't seemed to have worked out too well for Jeremy Tyler)

I am sorry I missed your response.

The NBDL could work, but I am not sure as it stands now the athletes out of high school are eligible for it. The NBDL should be the model. The NBA should find a way to use it to help with the development of young players when they want to do nothing more than learn to play basketball at a high level and they prove to have the necessary talent.

I would love for the NBA to get together with Europe and put together something, however as it stands now I am not sure it is a good option most young men.

tommy
03-23-2010, 01:24 AM
From bad to worse for Jeff, as his second best player looks to be leaving the program:

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0310/718470.html

4decadedukie
03-23-2010, 08:16 AM
As much as I'd like to see Calipari go down in flames, I wish the NCAA would remove the stick from our collective [insert wanker filter] already. Only in America -- world leader in free market capitalism -- is it considered a bad thing for talented young men to make a living doing something they love.

Completely agreeing re Calipari, I respectfully suggest that post-secondary school players who want to develop their basketball skills -- WITHOUT THE KNOWN ENCUMBRANCES AND RESPONSIBILITIES THAT APPLY TO STUDENT ATHLETES -- should play in the NBA's Development League, not in intercollegiate athletics.