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View Full Version : Chris Collins on short list for Seton Hall Head Coaching Job



Franzez
03-17-2010, 05:19 PM
http://blogs.mycentraljersey.com/hoopshaven/

Great opportunity for him there.

kyriecrazy2013
03-17-2010, 05:23 PM
If he leaves... long shot here... but Jay Williams could come coach. Thoughts?

pfrduke
03-17-2010, 05:26 PM
http://blogs.mycentraljersey.com/hoopshaven/

Great opportunity for him there.

I wonder if Seton Hall is at all gunshy about hiring another Duke assistant after the experience with Amaker.

superdave
03-17-2010, 05:26 PM
If he leaves... long shot here... but Jay Williams could come coach. Thoughts?

Chris Carrawell would just move over a few seats.

ChicagoCrazy84
03-17-2010, 06:18 PM
Chris Carrawell would just move over a few seats.


Yep. As much as I would love to see Jay on Duke's bench alongside Coach K I have a feeling we're at least a few year's away from that. That would be a slap in Chris' face IMO if we were to bring Jay in from ESPN out of nowhere.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-17-2010, 06:20 PM
If he leaves... long shot here... but Jay Williams could come coach. Thoughts?

Great, i can see him bringing in a massive amount of great recruits. And hopefully he's really good at coaching guards.

CameronBornAndBred
03-17-2010, 06:44 PM
Regardless of who fills his shoes at Duke, best of luck to Collins if it happens.

gep
03-17-2010, 06:49 PM
I wonder if Seton Hall is at all gunshy about hiring another Duke assistant after the experience with Amaker.

From this ESPN article

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5003199

........
"I had an unusual relationship with Coach Gonzalez," longtime St. Anthony coach Bob Hurley said Wednesday. "There never really was a comfort zone.

"I had a comfort zone with Seton Hall, sending many players there in the past, but not recently. Whoever gets the job will personality-wise be different than Coach Gonzalez. I would consider sending our players there."
........

Isn't this St. Anthony coach Bobby Hurley's dad? Maybe the Duke connection can work out... :rolleyes:

HRAR
03-17-2010, 07:19 PM
Chris and Wojo are both ready to head their own teams. I know that this is not really on the radar for now, but are we grooming a successor for K? Is it Wojo? It seems that K has at least 5-7 years left but it would be hard to keep either Collins or Wojo that long.

At the same time, I wouldn't ever want a Bobby Bowden-like situation to develop with the man who had made Duke basketball great. Anyone have thoughts?

OZZIE4DUKE
03-17-2010, 07:53 PM
Chris and Wojo are both ready to head their own teams. I know that this is not really on the radar for now, but are we grooming a successor for K? Is it Wojo? It seems that K has at least 5-7 years left but it would be hard to keep either Collins or Wojo that long.

At the same time, I wouldn't ever want a Bobby Bowden-like situation to develop with the man who had made Duke basketball great. Anyone have thoughts?
Whoever succeeds K needs to have run his own program for a few years, and been successful at it. That's one reason why Johnny Dawkins finally took the Stanford job. It's time for Chris and Wojo (one at a time - not both this year) to stretch their wings a bit and see what's it's like out in the real world. :cool: I expect they will both be excellent as head coaches.

johnb
03-17-2010, 08:20 PM
I think it's great that Collings gets mentioned for the SH job, though I'd think he'd turn it down. Seems to me that it'd be preferable to wait for an opportunity where he can legitimately say to a high school prospect, "this is the best university in the world for you, and I see myself staying for a long time." I don't think he'd think SH was a great college environment or that he would stay if, say, a Big Ten or ACC school offered him a job. When thinking about fits, I'd think our other coaches could make the above claim (great school; I'm sticking) almost always: Dawkins when he went to Stanford, Brey to Notre Dame; Snyder to Washington, Capel to Oklahoma, or Amaker when he went to Michigan or Harvard; those are great college environments where virtually any student-athlete is going to be adequately challenged and welcomed, and there are at least 50 others that are better at combining bball, academics, and a campus feeling than Seton Hall. There is no particular reason why he wouldn't be in line for one of the great openings when they open up, and it's not like the Collins family is destitute or desperate.

JohnGalt
03-17-2010, 09:51 PM
In light of Nate James' recent success in the recruiting realm, I relish the opportunity for Chris Carrawell to get into the fold. Duke's recruiting success will skyrocket with yet another player in which these elite recruits can relate.

Here's to hoping Chris gets the job and enjoys tremendous success...

BD80
03-17-2010, 10:31 PM
I think it's great that Collins gets mentioned for the SH job, though I'd think he'd turn it down. ... There is no particular reason why he wouldn't be in line for one of the great openings when they open up, and it's not like the Collins family is destitute or desperate.

I am sure Tommy has talked to Chris about the SH job, and would help Chris outline a very detailed list of "demands" (requirements?) for him to take the job.

I don't recall too many St Anthony's players coming to Duke. Bobby Hurley and Roshown McLeod are the only ones I remember. So it is not like there is the Hurley/Duke pipeline to rely upon. However, there is a respect that might help get past the Gonzo fiasco.

The big attraction is that THREE powerhouse prep schools, St Anthony's, St Patrick's and Saint Benedict's, are all within a few miles of the Catholic University that is Seton Hall. Two are coached by Hurleys. Handled correctly, it is fertile recruiting grounds.

I also believe that Chris is a very motivated man who wants to prove himself as a head coach. Johnny was a bit more laid back professionally as he had had success on the professional level as a player, and was willing to pass on good (rather than great) opportunities so he could spend more time with his young family. I think Chris will consider this seriously. How many better coaching jobs open up each year? If he does well at SH, he will be a candidate for the top line jobs should any open. I consider this to be at least on a par with Oklahoma.

wilko
03-17-2010, 10:32 PM
While folks are helping Chris pack his bags for SH, why would some assume that he wouldn't take Nate or Carrawell along with him to round out his staff?

If its offered to somone on the Duke staff and accepted, its likely to leave more than one ripple.

just saying..

roywhite
03-17-2010, 10:39 PM
I am sure Tommy has talked to Chris about the SH job, and would help Chris outline a very detailed list of "demands" (requirements?) for him to take the job.



Don't forget that Chris Collins worked at Seton Hall for two years as Tommy's assistant. Probably a plus for his consideration by the Pirates, and good background for his decision making.

Cameron
03-17-2010, 10:43 PM
While I know Chris has to finally branch out at some point and build his own legacy at his own program, I will be saddened to see him leave (even knowing he may return to Durham one day). I love the passion he brings to this program, and watching the emotion he displays on the bench during our big games. It breathes everything that's good about this place.

Duke, baby. There's nothing like it.

Kewlswim
03-17-2010, 10:44 PM
While folks are helping Chris pack his bags for SH, why would some assume that he wouldn't take Nate or Carrawell along with him to round out his staff?

If its offered to somone on the Duke staff and accepted, its likely to leave more than one ripple.

just saying..

Hi,

Why would one of those guys want to leave? It is one thing to be named head coach and another an assistant. I could see Chris leaving, but not those other guys. They are starting out their careers and they are learning at Duke, I think that is better than taking a risk with Chris (no offense Chris) at Seton Hall where he could be fired in a couple of years.

GO DUKE!

Jim3k
03-17-2010, 10:44 PM
While folks are helping Chris pack his bags for SH, why would some assume that he wouldn't take Nate or Carrawell along with him to round out his staff?

If its offered to somone on the Duke staff and accepted, its likely to leave more than one ripple.

just saying..

And JD, moving to foreign territory (for him, not for me) on the West Coast took a while to put his staff together. First time coach, first time putting a staff together. Not an easy task.

But, FWIW, when Tommy went to Seton Hall, his principal assistant was -- Chris Collins. So Chris already knows the territory -- well, he might be a little out of date, but it shouldn't matter.

airowe
03-17-2010, 11:23 PM
In light of Nate James' recent success in the recruiting realm, I relish the opportunity for Chris Carrawell to get into the fold. Duke's recruiting success will skyrocket with yet another player in which these elite recruits can relate.

Here's to hoping Chris gets the job and enjoys tremendous success...

I'm guessing you don't know how many of our recent recruits Chris has brought into the program.

buddy
03-17-2010, 11:43 PM
Hi,

Why would one of those guys want to leave? It is one thing to be named head coach and another an assistant. I could see Chris leaving, but not those other guys. They are starting out their careers and they are learning at Duke, I think that is better than taking a risk with Chris (no offense Chris) at Seton Hall where he could be fired in a couple of years.

GO DUKE!

If they perceive that the skids are being greased for Chris Spatola. It would be in keeping with the transformation of Duke basketball as the Kzryzewski family business.

Kewlswim
03-18-2010, 12:42 AM
If they perceive that the skids are being greased for Chris Spatola. It would be in keeping with the transformation of Duke basketball as the Kzryzewski family business.

Coach Bad-I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. and Chris (Carowell) are happy at Duke. If there is a great opportunity I am sure they will take it, but I don't think going to be an assistant at Seton Hall would be it. I could of course be wrong and they are both great actors and good at acting like they like it at Duke.

GO DUKE!

burnspbesq
03-18-2010, 01:24 AM
Oregon and Iowa are open. The Hall is far from the best job available right now.

Kewlswim
03-18-2010, 01:40 AM
Coach Bad-I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. and Chris (Carowell) are happy at Duke. If there is a great opportunity I am sure they will take it, but I don't think going to be an assistant at Seton Hall would be it. I could of course be wrong and they are both great actors and good at acting like they like it at Duke.

GO DUKE!

Hi,

I guess the DBR censor does not like Coach Bad-*** as a name. ;) Guess the DBR censor and Billy Packer are both wound a bit tight.

GO DUKE!

Cameron
03-18-2010, 03:43 AM
Oregon and Iowa are open. The Hall is far from the best job available right now.


I'm sure you weren't suggesting this, but Chris will not end up at Oregon. The Ducks, behind Nike mogul Phil Knight, will hire a big name to replace Ernie Kent. My very early odds are on Mark Few, who -- and hear me out -- will finally decide to take one of the "big time" offers after realizing that Gonzaga is not reachin' the Final Four anytime soon.

This could be a stretch, since Few has already turned down Washington State, Stanford, Indiana, Oklahoma State and (I could be wrong here) passed on interest in Kentucky, but the "cheese" and state-of-the-art facilities Nike (cough ... Oregon) has to offer might be too much to pass another time.

I need to go to bed, so I'm out.

Cameron
03-18-2010, 03:47 AM
Well, since I'm Bob Fleishcher, my home boy from Ohio, I think I better add one more post.

Edit: I have just noticed that I have used "cheese" and home boy in consecutive posts. Yes, bed for me.

Go Duke!

Jim3k
03-18-2010, 04:47 AM
I'm sure you weren't suggesting this, but Chris will not end up at Oregon. The Ducks, behind Nike mogul Phil Knight, will hire a big name to replace Ernie Kent. My very early odds are on Mark Few, who -- and hear me out -- will finally decide to take one of the "big time" offers after realizing that Gonzaga is not reachin' the Final Four anytime soon.

This could be a stretch, since Few has already turned down Washington State, Stanford, Indiana, Oklahoma State and (I could be wrong here) passed on interest in Kentucky, but the "cheese" and state-of-the-art facilities Nike (cough ... Oregon) has to offer might be too much to pass another time.

I need to go to bed, so I'm out.

You can add Arizona to Few's list.

heyman25
03-18-2010, 07:06 AM
In light of Nate James' recent success in the recruiting realm, I relish the opportunity for Chris Carrawell to get into the fold. Duke's recruiting success will skyrocket with yet another player in which these elite recruits can relate.

Here's to hoping Chris gets the job and enjoys tremendous success...

I wholeheartedly agree.

JohnGalt
03-18-2010, 09:01 AM
I'm guessing you don't know how many of our recent recruits Chris has brought into the program.

I have to believe it has hurt Duke recruiting having Wojo and Collins as K's main men. I think now that Nate James has become involved and shown the early, significant strides he has, this point has become emboldened. I agree with a previous post that Collins' passion and intensity for the program is contagious, but having him AND Wojo onboard is counterproductive. They both essentially serve the same purpose. Consider you were a top recruit and the two people recruiting you are white, guard types one of which is the "center's" coach. Greg Monroe hinted around this without actually saying it and I have to believe there have been others. I think both are quality coaches, but by the same token, their services would be best utilized separately. I wish him nothing but success, but I believe if K were to bring Wojo, Nate, and Carrawell along on his recruiting missions, the diversity in commitments would be greatly expanded.

NSDukeFan
03-18-2010, 09:17 AM
I have to believe it has hurt Duke recruiting having Wojo and Collins as K's main men. I think now that Nate James has become involved and shown the early, significant strides he has, this point has become emboldened. I agree with a previous post that Collins' passion and intensity for the program is contagious, but having him AND Wojo onboard is counterproductive. They both essentially serve the same purpose. Consider you were a top recruit and the two people recruiting you are white, guard types one of which is the "center's" coach. Greg Monroe hinted around this without actually saying it and I have to believe there have been others. I think both are quality coaches, but by the same token, their services would be best utilized separately. I wish him nothing but success, but I believe if K were to bring Wojo, Nate, and Carrawell along on his recruiting missions, the diversity in commitments would be greatly expanded.

So, because Wojo and Collins were both guards over 10 years ago and are both white, it is counterproductive to have both of them on staff? Interesting perspective.

JohnGalt
03-18-2010, 09:23 AM
So, because Wojo and Collins were both guards over 10 years ago and are both white, it is counterproductive to have both of them on staff? Interesting perspective.

Yes. There are many that agree, including and not limited to Greg Monroe.

flyingdutchdevil
03-18-2010, 09:30 AM
So, because Wojo and Collins were both guards over 10 years ago and are both white, it is counterproductive to have both of them on staff? Interesting perspective.

While I don't agree with what John Galt said, are you assuming that the a) age doesn't matter in recruiting (30 year old assistant vs 45 year old assistant?), b) race doesn't matter in recruiting, and c) public perception of a former player doesn't matter in recruiting?

It would be very naive to think that these aren't considerations. Also, while Wojo and Collins definitely help with recruiting, this exciting recruiting phase is Nate Dog's initiative.

NSDukeFan
03-18-2010, 09:32 AM
Yes. There are many that agree, including and not limited to Greg Monroe.

I guess we should change our coaching staff to please Greg Monroe then, because when he was 17, he probably had a greater knowledge than coach K of who would be more helpful on his coaching staff. In that vain, I wonder if having Boeheim and coach K, two extemely successful coaches at two of the top college programs in the country, and both white men over the age of 60, was counterproductive to the Olympic team. Or, might it be possible that they brought different experiences and contributed in different ways to the team.

JohnGalt
03-18-2010, 09:40 AM
Your sarcasm is misplaced. I provided a reason with an example as to why I believe Duke will benefit from either Collins or Wojo's departure. If you disagree, fine, but don't make asinine comments or suggest that I need to list EVERY example illustrating my opinion.

I merely think having two white, guard-type assistant coaches doing the bulk of the recruiting has hurt Duke recruiting in recent years. The elite athletes we are after are having a difficult time identifying with them.

CERTAINLY, you aren't comparing Wojo and Collins to K and Boeheim? If so, I wasted my time even responding...

airowe
03-18-2010, 09:40 AM
I have to believe it has hurt Duke recruiting having Wojo and Collins as K's main men. I think now that Nate James has become involved and shown the early, significant strides he has, this point has become emboldened. I agree with a previous post that Collins' passion and intensity for the program is contagious, but having him AND Wojo onboard is counterproductive. They both essentially serve the same purpose. Consider you were a top recruit and the two people recruiting you are white, guard types one of which is the "center's" coach. Greg Monroe hinted around this without actually saying it and I have to believe there have been others. I think both are quality coaches, but by the same token, their services would be best utilized separately. I wish him nothing but success, but I believe if K were to bring Wojo, Nate, and Carrawell along on his recruiting missions, the diversity in commitments would be greatly expanded.


While I don't agree with what John Galt said, are you assuming that the a) age doesn't matter in recruiting (30 year old assistant vs 45 year old assistant?), b) race doesn't matter in recruiting, and c) public perception of a former player doesn't matter in recruiting?

It would be very naive to think that these aren't considerations. Also, while Wojo and Collins definitely help with recruiting, this exciting recruiting phase is Nate Dog's initiative.

Here are some recent recruits that Chris Collins was the lead on:

Scheyer, Henderson, Singler, Smith, Dawkins, the Plums, Irving

Chris is also the lead on Austin Rivers. Now, I don't want to diminish Nate's contributions to the staff, but I don't think you can make such definitive statements without considering facts first. While your opinion may differ from the facts, it doesn't make it the truth.

airowe
03-18-2010, 09:42 AM
Yes. There are many that agree, including and not limited to Greg Monroe.

There were a lot of things that Georgetown offered Greg that Duke would not or could not. Regardless of what he said in the public, the fact that Steve is our big man coach did not have as much to do with Greg's decision as you may have been led to believe.

JohnGalt
03-18-2010, 09:46 AM
While I don't agree with what John Galt said, are you assuming that the a) age doesn't matter in recruiting (30 year old assistant vs 45 year old assistant?), b) race doesn't matter in recruiting, and c) public perception of a former player doesn't matter in recruiting?

In a nutshell, this is what I'm trying to get across.

Collins and Wojo fit one recruiting type. They are white, guard-types and identify with a certain type of recruit. Having both of them is doubling up on the same archetype; whereas, Nate James (and potentially Carrawell) offers a different model...

flyingdutchdevil
03-18-2010, 09:49 AM
There were a lot of things that Georgetown offered Greg that Duke would not or could not. Regardless of what he said in the public, the fact that Steve is our big man coach did not have as much to do with Greg's decision as you may have been led to believe.

There are a lot of rumors floating around the Greg Monroe situation. The Steve-big-man one isn't even the most common one I've heard.

airowe
03-18-2010, 09:50 AM
In a nutshell, this is what I'm trying to get across.

Collins and Wojo fit one recruiting type. They are white, guard-types and identify with a certain type of recruit. Having both of them is doubling up on the same archetype; whereas, Nate James (and potentially Carrawell) offers a different model...

And yet the facts I presented disagree with your opinion.

How do you explain that Wojo was the lead recruiter for Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston or that ALL of our incoming players are African-American, yet Nate James didn't recruit a single one?

flyingdutchdevil
03-18-2010, 09:52 AM
And yet the facts I presented disagree with your opinion.

How do you explain that Wojo was the lead recruiter for Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston or that ALL of our incoming players are African-American, yet Nate James didn't recruit a single one?

pretty sure nate was on Felix, right? And last time I checked, he is black. Did he do a reverse Michael Jackson?

airowe
03-18-2010, 09:53 AM
pretty sure nate was on Felix, right? And last time I checked, he is black. Did he do a reverse Michael Jackson?

You can count him if you like, I wasn't. I was referring to our incoming Freshman class. Regardless, my point still remains.

JohnGalt
03-18-2010, 09:56 AM
Here are some recent recruits that Chris Collins was the lead on:

Scheyer, Henderson, Singler, Smith, Dawkins, the Plums, Irving

Chris is also the lead on Austin Rivers. Now, I don't want to diminish Nate's contributions to the staff, but I don't think you can make such definitive statements without considering facts first. While your opinion may differ from the facts, it doesn't make it the truth.

None of those players have played in a Final Four, the benchmark for success. Is it not? While your facts may support whatever truth you're reaching for, the fact is that Duke has missed MANY of its top priority recruits in recent years. Would there be any question who was number 1 in the country if Patterson and Monroe were in the paint for Duke?

Regardless, you STILL fail to see my point. I never insinuated Collins was a poor recruiter. I just feel him and Wojo fill the same role. Look at the players you listed. The only big men are the Plumless. Mason was a consensus top 20 guy, but other than that, Duke has missed ALL of its big men recruits.

flyingdutchdevil
03-18-2010, 09:58 AM
Mason was a consensus top 20 guy, but other than that, Duke has missed ALL of its big men recruits.

Not all. Just about 75% ;)

airowe
03-18-2010, 09:58 AM
None of those players have played in a Final Four, the benchmark for success. Is it not? While your facts may support whatever truth you're reaching for, the fact is that Duke has missed MANY of its top priority recruits in recent years. Would there be any question who was number 1 in the country if Patterson and Monroe were in the paint for Duke?

Regardless, you STILL fail to see my point. I never insinuated Collins was a poor recruiter. I just feel him and Wojo fill the same role. Look at the players you listed. The only big men are the Plumless. Mason was a consensus top 20 guy, but other than that, Duke has missed ALL of its big men recruits.

What time period are you referring to when Duke has missed ALL of its big men recruits? I'll wait for your response before I answer.

ETA: Your original point had in it that Wojo and Collins are white and that with James and Carrawell along there would be a much greater "diversity" of commitments. It seems there is a moving target here, but I can refute both.

NSDukeFan
03-18-2010, 10:08 AM
None of those players have played in a Final Four, the benchmark for success. Is it not? While your facts may support whatever truth you're reaching for, the fact is that Duke has missed MANY of its top priority recruits in recent years. Would there be any question who was number 1 in the country if Patterson and Monroe were in the paint for Duke?

Regardless, you STILL fail to see my point. I never insinuated Collins was a poor recruiter. I just feel him and Wojo fill the same role. Look at the players you listed. The only big men are the Plumless. Mason was a consensus top 20 guy, but other than that, Duke has missed ALL of its big men recruits.

Which final fours have Patterson and Monroe played in?

flyingdutchdevil
03-18-2010, 10:14 AM
Which final fours have Patterson and Monroe played in?

I personally don't find this to be a valid excuse. UNC folk use this excuse with Duke all the time, but instead of individual players they say our whole team hasn't played in the FF in the last 6 years :confused:.

In a guards' game, big men rarely bring their teams to FF success. But a big man stud surrounded by guards is something special.

Now, I'm part of the camp that does believe that Duke has missed out on some key big men who were interested in Duke but ended up going to other schools. Without an amazing big man in the last 4 years, Duke would more likely than not have lived up their seeds.

NSDukeFan
03-18-2010, 10:22 AM
I personally don't find this to be a valid excuse. UNC folk use this excuse with Duke all the time, but instead of individual players they say our whole team hasn't played in the FF in the last 6 years :confused:.

In a guards' game, big men rarely bring their teams to FF success. But a big man stud surrounded by guards is something special.

Now, I'm part of the camp that does believe that Duke has missed out on some key big men who were interested in Duke but ended up going to other schools. Without an amazing big man in the last 4 years, Duke would more likely than not have lived up their seeds.

My quote was sarcastic and didn't add anything to the thread. I just get disappointed when I hear people make blanket statements like having both coach Collins and Wojo is counterproductive, as if there is no difference between what they bring to the table as coaches because they are both white. Yes, Nate James is a great addition to our coaching staff and may relate better to certain black students. But, my impression is Coach Collins is also a very good coach, has been a great member of the Duke staff for many years, has been involved in some very good recruiting for Duke, that includes both black and white student-athletes and brings some perspectives and opinions on coaching that may be different than Wojo, even though they are both white and both played as guards at Duke.

flyingdutchdevil
03-18-2010, 10:30 AM
My quote was sarcastic and didn't add anything to the thread. I just get disappointed when I hear people make blanket statements like having both coach Collins and Wojo is counterproductive, as if there is no difference between what they bring to the table as coaches because they are both white. Yes, Nate James is a great addition to our coaching staff and may relate better to certain black students. But, my impression is Coach Collins is also a very good coach, has been a great member of the Duke staff for many years, has been involved in some very good recruiting for Duke, that includes both black and white student-athletes and brings some perspectives and opinions on coaching that may be different than Wojo, even though they are both white and both played as guards at Duke.

I agree with you on some fronts. I think attacking Wojo and Collins is unfair for a number of reasons, including we don't know what goes on (and for those reading Scout and Rivals, that doesn't mean you know a lot about recruiting either!).

That said, if you look at our big man track record since 2004, there is something going on in terms of both recruiting and developing. With the exception of Shelden, has any big man panned out the way we want them to? The guards, for the most part, have been really successful, but our bigs aren't living up to the hype. And this doesn't even include recruiting misses.

sagegrouse
03-18-2010, 10:38 AM
My quote was sarcastic and didn't add anything to the thread. I just get disappointed when I hear people make blanket statements like having both coach Collins and Wojo is counterproductive, as if there is no difference between what they bring to the table as coaches because they are both white. Yes, Nate James is a great addition to our coaching staff and may relate better to certain black students. But, my impression is Coach Collins is also a very good coach, has been a great member of the Duke staff for many years, has been involved in some very good recruiting for Duke, that includes both black and white student-athletes and brings some perspectives and opinions on coaching that may be different than Wojo, even though they are both white and both played as guards at Duke.

Yes, your comments are to the point.

One other thing that could be said is that Mr. Galt's comments question whether Coach K knows how to build a coaching staff. Funny, it seems to me that K could run almost any business in America. And I am 100% sure he can build a staff as well as anyone in the game of basketball.

And, of course, the other thing is that passages like the one below are indeed unfortunate and tend to give credence to long-discredited stereotypes. (Lets see.... You hire a sales force by looking at the candidates' pictures?) It doesn't reflect well on this Board:


"Collins and Wojo fit one recruiting type. They are white, guard-types and identify with a certain type of recruit. Having both of them is doubling up on the same archetype.... "

Ugh....

sagegrouse

NashvilleDevil
03-18-2010, 10:39 AM
Which final fours have Patterson and Monroe played in?

Not only has Patterson not played in a Final Four this is his first time playing in the NCAA tournament.

flyingdutchdevil
03-18-2010, 10:49 AM
Funny, it seems to me that K could run almost any business in America. And I am 100% sure he can build a staff as well as anyone in the game of basketball.

I'm sorry - that's just not true. "K could run almost any business in America?" Hate to say it Sagegrouse, but this sounds like an example of K-is-God syndrome. Richard Wagoner had some great leadership skills and Fuqua fell in love with him, but that doesn't mean he could succeed in running a company (ask former GM shareholders)

BD80
03-18-2010, 11:21 AM
I'm sorry - that's just not true. "K could run almost any business in America?" Hate to say it Sagegrouse, but this sounds like an example of K-is-God syndrome. Richard Wagoner had some great leadership skills and Fuqua fell in love with him, but that doesn't mean he could succeed in running a company (ask former GM shareholders)

STRAW MAN ALERT!

GM qualifies as "almost any business in America?" Sheesh. Pick a more difficult company to run, given the situation, economic climate, labor issues, past profiteering and accounting issues and health care conundrum. Coach K happens to be a recognized authority on leadership. People who run companies pay Coach K to teach them how to run their companies better. That sounds like enough of an endorsement to me.

Of course, people are free to debate whether Coach K could run "almost any business in America," just as I am free to consider such disagreement ludicrous. There is a reason that West Point graduates are highly coveted in the business world, and Coach K has taken that leadership to the next level.

The "intellectual debate" on Chris going to SH left intellect behind too long ago.

We have two white coaches approaching middle age. How often did they visit recruits together?

Chris happens to be a fabulous recruiter, which is why I would rather not see him go.

flyingdutchdevil
03-18-2010, 11:31 AM
STRAW MAN ALERT!

GM qualifies as "almost any business in America?" Sheesh. Pick a more difficult company to run, given the situation, economic climate, labor issues, past profiteering and accounting issues and health care conundrum. Coach K happens to be a recognized authority on leadership. People who run companies pay Coach K to teach them how to run their companies better. That sounds like enough of an endorsement to me.

Of course, people are free to debate whether Coach K could run "almost any business in America," just as I am free to consider such disagreement ludicrous. There is a reason that West Point graduates are highly coveted in the business world, and Coach K has taken that leadership to the next level.

The "intellectual debate" on Chris going to SH left intellect behind too long ago.

We have two white coaches approaching middle age. How often did they visit recruits together?

Chris happens to be a fabulous recruiter, which is why I would rather not see him go.

Definitely haven't commented on either Collins's or Wojo's ability to recruit. And agreed, would definitely hate to see them leave.

No one doubts that K has leadership. And you're military background comment on business is spot on. But I think it's funny that because a) K is a great leader and b) is involved with Fuqua, he "can run any business in America." Priceless...

dukelifer
03-18-2010, 11:42 AM
None of those players have played in a Final Four, the benchmark for success. Is it not? While your facts may support whatever truth you're reaching for, the fact is that Duke has missed MANY of its top priority recruits in recent years. Would there be any question who was number 1 in the country if Patterson and Monroe were in the paint for Duke?

Regardless, you STILL fail to see my point. I never insinuated Collins was a poor recruiter. I just feel him and Wojo fill the same role. Look at the players you listed. The only big men are the Plumless. Mason was a consensus top 20 guy, but other than that, Duke has missed ALL of its big men recruits.

Today or last year? If Patterson and Monroe BOTH played for Duke- there is a possibility that BOTH would have seen a FF last year and have been long gone to the NBA by now. One can play this "what if" game in many ways. Patrick Patterson for one was lured to KY by promises of playing time- but would have had MUCH more exposure had he gone to Duke- he may even know that now. He was simply lucky that Cal and his Memphis recruits decided to come to KY to join him or he would have been on the outside looking in this year. But sometimes recruits MISS as well. Duke has lost some big men recruits and got others. Duke is not the only basketball program in the country and not every kid dreams of playing at Duke or makes the right decision choosing another school over Duke.

BD80
03-18-2010, 12:20 PM
Definitely haven't commented on either Collins's or Wojo's ability to recruit. ...

Sorry. It sure seemed to me like you had:


... I'm part of the camp that does believe that Duke has missed out on some key big men who were interested in Duke but ended up going to other schools. Without an amazing big man in the last 4 years, Duke would more likely than not have lived up their seeds.


... if you look at our big man track record since 2004, there is something going on in terms of both recruiting and developing. With the exception of Shelden, has any big man panned out the way we want them to? The guards, for the most part, have been really successful, but our bigs aren't living up to the hype. And this doesn't even include recruiting misses.

________________



... But I think it's funny that because a) K is a great leader and b) is involved with Fuqua, he "can run any business in America." Priceless...

You must crack yourself up then, because you're the one that said it, not me. You may been inflating Sagegrouse's comment, but still, it wasn't me. I took you to task for suggesting GM was "almost any company," and for flaying a horse that hath shuffled off this mortal coil.

Franzez
03-18-2010, 12:42 PM
Hopefully Chris Collins gets the job at Seton Hall. Amaker didnt really struggle at Seton Hall, he used the job to earn a promotion at Michigan.

With Collins in the fold at Seton Hall, he would have access to the New Jersey catholic schools and be able to steer them to stay home. I'd love to see him bring in some former Duke players as assistants. Maybe Roshawn McLeod, I think hes from Jersey aswell.

Why not bring in Jason Williams at Seton Hall as an assistant? Hes interested in coaching, and hes still viewed as one of the best New Jersey prep players ever.

This is what Duke needs, having our former players become assistants under former Duke alumni elsewhere and from there go on to coaching their own jobs. North Carolina found success doing this very thing.

JohnGalt
03-18-2010, 12:50 PM
The target is indeed moving, Airowe.

I'm simply trying to validate a point that I believe Duke would benefit from having several different types of recruiters on board rather than what I perceive to be essentially the same one. It doesn't reflect negatively on Wojo or Collins as a person/coach/recruiter/etc except for the fact that I believe they serve a very similar role in recruiting.

@Sagegrouse
It's awfully naive to believe that Collins and Wojo would have the same influence on certain recruits that Nate James or Chris Carrawell would (and vice versa, of course!). It's not a "long-discredited stereotype" nor is it a racist remark, so much as it is a cultural norm. Who wouldn't want to play with and be coached by those with which they can identify?

I don't understand why this is being twisted as though I'm bashing Collins or K? I have never once suggested Coach K "doesn't know how to build a coaching staff." It's these sorts of speculative comments that are unfortunate.

Collins and/or Wojo has been very successful in the field in which I believe he/they should be successful (Airowe's previous post of Scheyer, Henderson, et al). My only point is that I feel asking him to recruit players in which it's difficult for him or the player to identify with one another is a tall order and - for the most part - a futile one. I think that K has realized this and, as a result, brought in Nate James, paying immediate dividends.

I'm not sure why this is an unreasonable statement. It's a sentiment shared by many of my Duke confidants; perhaps because of the taboo subject, others are nervous to consider it.

Ugh...

sagegrouse
03-18-2010, 01:05 PM
I'm sorry - that's just not true. "K could run almost any business in America?" Hate to say it Sagegrouse, but this sounds like an example of K-is-God syndrome. Richard Wagoner had some great leadership skills and Fuqua fell in love with him, but that doesn't mean he could succeed in running a company (ask former GM shareholders)

Not "God," but a very capable executive. Organized, good leader, persuasive, thinks far ahead. Look at K's Olympic team compared with those of his predecessors. Makes most of us who have been leaders a bit jealous.

sagegrouse

flyingdutchdevil
03-18-2010, 01:08 PM
Sorry. It sure seemed to me like you had:





________________




You must crack yourself up then, because you're the one that said it, not me. You may been inflating Sagegrouse's comment, but still, it wasn't me. I took you to task for suggesting GM was "almost any company," and for flaying a horse that hath shuffled off this mortal coil.

In my eyes, the inability to recruit a big man in the last half dozen or so years is a failure of the Duke basketball program (and thus Coach K) and not Collins or Wojo. For all we know, something that Coach K did turned them off (humans err, remember? Or is K god?), they didn't like certain parts of the facilities, we gave them a wrong pitch, etc. I fault is the program rather than the assistant coaches. Historically, the assistant coaches have done a good job recruiting big men (look at our best players in the NBA). It's only in these last 4-6 years where that was fallen. Also, the inability to develop big men is a fault of the program and not Wojo's. Maybe the program misjudged recruits. Maybe someone on the team is not properly motivating them. I absolutely hate putting blame on assistant coaches when I'm not fully aware of the circumstances. But I do know two things: we've missed out on A LOT of big men recruits recently and we haven't developed big men effectively (not Shelden). For those two, I blame the Duke basketball program rather than the assistant coaches.

airowe
03-18-2010, 01:13 PM
The target is indeed moving, Airowe.

I'm simply trying to validate a point that I believe Duke would benefit from having several different types of recruiters on board rather than what I perceive to be essentially the same one. It doesn't reflect negatively on Wojo or Collins as a person/coach/recruiter/etc except for the fact that I believe they serve a very similar role in recruiting.

@Sagegrouse
It's awfully naive to believe that Collins and Wojo would have the same influence on certain recruits that Nate James or Chris Carrawell would (and vice versa, of course!). It's not a "long-discredited stereotype" nor is it a racist remark, so much as it is a cultural norm. Who wouldn't want to play with and be coached by those with which they can identify?

I don't understand why this is being twisted as though I'm bashing Collins or K? I have never once suggested Coach K "doesn't know how to build a coaching staff." It's these sorts of speculative comments that are unfortunate.

Collins and/or Wojo has been very successful in the field in which I believe he/they should be successful (Airowe's previous post of Scheyer, Henderson, et al). My only point is that I feel asking him to recruit players in which it's difficult for him or the player to identify with one another is a tall order and - for the most part - a futile one. I think that K has realized this and, as a result, brought in Nate James, paying immediate dividends.

I'm not sure why this is an unreasonable statement. It's a sentiment shared by many of my Duke confidants; perhaps because of the taboo subject, others are nervous to consider it.

Ugh...

Nate James was brough in to replace Johnny Dawkins, not because of anything Collins or Wojo could or couldn't do. The fact that he is a wonderful recruiter who is able to relate to certain recruits should not be held against any of the other assistant coaches.

There are many reasons why recruits choose to go to other schools, and I'm sure relationship with the person recruiting them is one of them. What I don't get is people putting that one reason up as the only reason why a certain player didn't come to Duke. Maybe its just easy to do so, because all the information is not out there and seems like such a simple little bow to put on a package which is clearly not so simple. Knowing a little about the behind the scenes goings-on in a few of the situations mentioned makes me be able to see that all the information is not out there for you to make your decision on what happened. it seems to me that you know just enough to be dangerous, but not enough to know how dangerous you can be. Maybe I'm wrong, but your comments about Wojo or Collins not being able to relate to African-American or big man recruits certainly make it seem that way to me. Because they have and the facts prove them to be that way.

I know it's easy to put all the blame on our tourney and recruiting success the last five years on one scapegoat, but it's simply not that simple. All of our assistant coaches, our head coach, our managers, our satellite staff, and even our fanbase to a degree are all directly connected with the amount of success we achieve and do not. To put all blame or accolades on one spoke in that wheel to me is shortsighted, narrow minded, and deserves being called out.

sagegrouse
03-18-2010, 01:14 PM
The NY Times story (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/18/sports/ncaabasketball/18gonzalez.html?src=me)on Gonzales did not include Collins on the list of candidates. All mentioned seemed to be head coaches.

sagegrouse

flyingdutchdevil
03-18-2010, 01:17 PM
Not "God," but a very capable executive. Organized, good leader, persuasive, thinks far ahead. Look at K's Olympic team with those of his predecessors. Makes most of us who have been leaders a bit jealous.

sagegrouse
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=380397

IMO, this article sums up why Coach K wouldn't be a great CEO: http://www.cnbc.com/id/35861926

Check out this quote:


Rarely does any tournament team report that its basketball team lost money and Duke's filing certainly suggests that the team did spend more than others in expenses. Duke says it spent $394,068 per basketball player for the 2008-09 season. I couldn't find any of this year's tournament teams that spent more than $175,000 per player. It's ACC counterpart Maryland, for example, said it spent $45,000 per player. Why a Duke player costs more than eight times more, I'm still not sure.

Considering our recent tournament record, that is a terrible ROI. They spent $400,000 per player compared to $45,000 at Maryland!!! (I already know what someone is going to post something about how Duke basketball accounting is very different than Maryland accounting, etc. etc.)

Try pitching that to your Board and see what they say. I'm sure Duke brings in more revenue than Maryland's basketball program, but I'd be surprised if it justified spending 9 times more on players.

JohnGalt
03-18-2010, 01:59 PM
Nate James was brough in to replace Johnny Dawkins, not because of anything Collins or Wojo could or couldn't do. The fact that he is a wonderful recruiter who is able to relate to certain recruits should not be held against any of the other assistant coaches.

There are many reasons why recruits choose to go to other schools, and I'm sure relationship with the person recruiting them is one of them. What I don't get is people putting that one reason up as the only reason why a certain player didn't come to Duke. Maybe its just easy to do so, because all the information is not out there and seems like such a simple little bow to put on a package which is clearly not so simple. Knowing a little about the behind the scenes goings-on in a few of the situations mentioned makes me be able to see that all the information is not out there for you to make your decision on what happened. it seems to me that you know just enough to be dangerous, but not enough to know how dangerous you can be. Maybe I'm wrong, but your comments about Wojo or Collins not being able to relate to African-American or big man recruits certainly make it seem that way to me. Because they have and the facts prove them to be that way.

I know it's easy to put all the blame on our tourney and recruiting success the last five years on one scapegoat, but it's simply not that simple. All of our assistant coaches, our head coach, our managers, our satellite staff, and even our fanbase to a degree are all directly connected with the amount of success we achieve and do not. To put all blame or accolades on one spoke in that wheel to me is shortsighted, narrow minded, and deserves being called out.

I haven't scapegoated anyone. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I don't feel that anyone on the coaching staff has been detrimental to the overall recruiting strategy K employs, but I do feel that it can improve. Nate James - IMO - has illustrated this. To reiterate what I said earlier, I'm not questioning Collins' recruiting ability/coaching ability/passion/etc, only his ability to identify and relate with some of the elite recruits we are after. It's not a personal attack on him, it's not an affront to his personality; and most certainly, it's not an insult to his person. I respect the man tremendously for what he's done as a Duke player and coach. My only point is that EVERYONE is most comfortable when they are around people with which they are able to relate and identify.

So, once again:
1. I'm not questioning Coach K's ability to build a recruiting team, staff, or any other permutation of this.
2 . I'm not questioning Collins' coaching ability, recruiting ability, etc.
3. I'm certainly not suggesting that recent recruiting misses didn't sign with Duke for the specific reason of: "Wojo is the big man coach" although I do believe it was a contributory factor.

There are others, but - to be honest - I feel I'm being repetitive. I apologize though if I'm coming across as circuitous and vague.

Lastly, whatever becomes of this (i just saw sagegrouse's article), I wish Chris nothing but the best. He's been an asset to the devils for over 15 years now.

BD80
03-18-2010, 02:07 PM
...

I'm simply trying to validate a point that I believe Duke would benefit from having several different types of recruiters on board rather than what I perceive to be essentially the same one. It doesn't reflect negatively on Wojo or Collins as a person/coach/recruiter/etc except for the fact that I believe they serve a very similar role in recruiting.

@Sagegrouse
It's awfully naive to believe that Collins and Wojo would have the same influence on certain recruits that Nate James or Chris Carrawell would (and vice versa, of course!). It's not a "long-discredited stereotype" nor is it a racist remark, so much as it is a cultural norm. Who wouldn't want to play with and be coached by those with which they can identify?

... I'm not sure why this is an unreasonable statement. It's a sentiment shared by many of my Duke confidants; perhaps because of the taboo subject, others are nervous to consider it. ...

If Wojo and Collins are the same "type" of recruiter, wouldn't CC and Nate be the same "type" as well?

How is this not stereotyping?


http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=380397

IMO, this article sums up why Coach K wouldn't be a great CEO: http://www.cnbc.com/id/35861926

Considering our recent tournament record, that is a terrible ROI. They spent $400,000 per player compared to $45,000 at Maryland!!! (I already know what someone is going to post something about how Duke basketball accounting is very different than Maryland accounting, etc. etc.)

Try pitching that to your Board and see what they say. I'm sure Duke brings in more revenue than Maryland's basketball program, but I'd be surprised if it justified spending 9 times more on players.

Hmmm. I wonder if that accounting includes the money spent on the new practice/educational facility? That might actually make Coach K a rather successful "business" leader to include such a significant capital improvement in his his bottom line.

theAlaskanBear
03-18-2010, 02:15 PM
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=380397

IMO, this article sums up why Coach K wouldn't be a great CEO: http://www.cnbc.com/id/35861926

Check out this quote:



Considering our recent tournament record, that is a terrible ROI. They spent $400,000 per player compared to $45,000 at Maryland!!! (I already know what someone is going to post something about how Duke basketball accounting is very different than Maryland accounting, etc. etc.)

Try pitching that to your Board and see what they say. I'm sure Duke brings in more revenue than Maryland's basketball program, but I'd be surprised if it justified spending 9 times more on players.

Semantics: Duke did NOT spend 9 times more on PLAYERS. It's money spent on the PROGRAM. It's just being reported as per player like a per capita statistic. The article also says that Duke did not lose money, because things like licensing fees, or fundraising from boosters, etc. Who knows what could be included in expenses....anyone have insight into this?

theAlaskanBear
03-18-2010, 02:16 PM
If Wojo and Collins are the same "type" of recruiter, wouldn't CC and Nate be the same "type" as well?

How is this not stereotyping?



Hmmm. I wonder if that accounting includes the money spent on the new practice/educational facility? That might actually make Coach K a rather successful "business" leader to include such a significant capital improvement in his his bottom line.

I was wondering that as well, if financing the construction is included in expenses.

DukieInKansas
03-18-2010, 02:23 PM
I was wondering that as well, if financing the construction is included in expenses.

I don't have a link but I recall that this is the case. I think this has been discussed before.

airowe
03-18-2010, 03:31 PM
I'm not questioning Collins' recruiting ability, only his ability to identify and relate with some of the elite recruits we are after.

This is our point of disagreement. One of the biggest ways that you contend that Nate James is a great recruiter is his ability to relate to some of our elite targets. Thus, it nmakes up his recruiting ability, no?

Then by saying you don't believe Collins can relate to some of our elite targets, you are saying that he lacks the very thing that makes Nate (or by proxy, Chris Carrawell) a great recruiter. So, you are propping up Nate's ABILITY to recruit and at the same time, knocking Collins' ABILITY to recruit.

But, let's put that aside for know. I want to know the instances where we failed to land a recruit solely (or even partly) because Collins couldn't relate to them. If you can show me that, I'll stop arguing with you. Otherwise, you're arguing your opinion vs. my facts.

sagegrouse
03-18-2010, 04:18 PM
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=380397

IMO, this article sums up why Coach K wouldn't be a great CEO: http://www.cnbc.com/id/35861926

Check out this quote:



Considering our recent tournament record, that is a terrible ROI. They spent $400,000 per player compared to $45,000 at Maryland!!! (I already know what someone is going to post something about how Duke basketball accounting is very different than Maryland accounting, etc. etc.)

Try pitching that to your Board and see what they say. I'm sure Duke brings in more revenue than Maryland's basketball program, but I'd be surprised if it justified spending 9 times more on players.

Good grief! I make some minor bit of hyperbole about K being able to run any company in the country, and people are going nuts. Coach K, I repeat, would be a heckuva corporate leader.

IMHO (in this case the H is definitely NOT silent) running a large corporation involves, in addition to having a good feel for the industry and the drivers of the bottom line, the ability to select and motivate a team of outstanding executives, the ability to focus on what is most important for the business, and the ability to communica te effectively in small and large groups with both customers and staff. It seems to me K would be a pretty good corporate leader if he had taken a different career track.

For those who want to make this a numbers drill, here are the revenue figures from 2008 for the top 23 college athletic programs.



1st Texas $120,288,370 Big 12
2nd Ohio State $117,953,712 Big Ten
3rd Florida $106,030,895 Southeastern Conference
4th Michigan $99,027,105 Big Ten
5th Wisconsin $93,452,334 Big Ten
6th Penn State $91,570,233 Big Ten
7th Auburn $89,305,326 Southeastern Conference
8th Alabama $88,869,810 Southeastern Conference
9th Tennessee $88,719,798 Southeastern Conference
10th Oklahoma State $88,554,438 Big 12
11th Kansas $86,009,257 Big 12
12th Louisiana State $84,183,362 Southeastern Conference
13th Georgia $84,020,180 Southeastern Conference
14th Notre Dame $83,352,439 Independent
15th Iowa $81,148,310 Big Ten
16th Michigan State $77,738,746 Big Ten
17th Oklahoma $77,098,009 Big 12
18th Stanford $76,661,466 Pac-10
19th U. of So.Cal. $76,409,919 Pac-10
20th Nebraska $75,492,884 Big 12
21st Texas A&M $74,781,640 Big 12
22nd Kentucky $71,186,184 Southeastern Conference
23rd Duke $67,820,335 ACC


Note that Duke is the first ACC team listed, and it isn't because of football revenues. Gee, who could be responsible for the basketball revenues? :):rolleyes:;)

sagegrouse

BD80
03-18-2010, 04:42 PM
Good grief! I make some minor bit of hyperbole about K being able to run any company in the country, and people are going nuts. Coach K, I repeat, would be a heckuva corporate leader.

IMHO (in this case the H is definitely NOT silent) running a large corporation involves, in addition to having a good feel for the industry and the drivers of the bottom line, the ability to select and motivate a team of outstanding executives, the ability to focus on what is most important for the business, and the ability to communica te effectively in small and large groups with both customers and staff. It seems to me K would be a pretty good corporate leader if he had taken a different career track.

For those who want to make this a numbers drill, here are the revenue figures from 2008 for the top 23 college athletic programs.



1st Texas $120,288,370 Big 12
2nd Ohio State $117,953,712 Big Ten
3rd Florida $106,030,895 Southeastern Conference
4th Michigan $99,027,105 Big Ten
5th Wisconsin $93,452,334 Big Ten
6th Penn State $91,570,233 Big Ten
7th Auburn $89,305,326 Southeastern Conference
8th Alabama $88,869,810 Southeastern Conference
9th Tennessee $88,719,798 Southeastern Conference
...
23rd Duke $67,820,335 ACC


Note that Duke is the first ACC team listed, and it isn't because of football revenues. Gee, who could be responsible for the basketball revenues? :):rolleyes:;)

sagegrouse

Wisconsin #5? Seriously? Ahead of PSU, Auburn, Bama, Tennessee? Wow!

That's like invading Czechoslovakia!

alteran
03-18-2010, 04:53 PM
Considering our recent tournament record, that is a terrible ROI. They spent $400,000 per player compared to $45,000 at Maryland!!! (I already know what someone is going to post something about how Duke basketball accounting is very different than Maryland accounting, etc. etc.)


Uhm... Duke's tuition is currently 37500, or about 300,000 per player. Maryland's is 6500, or about 50k per player.

Not only is Duke way more expensive off the bat, but tuition at Maryland exceeds their "cost per player," so somewhere I don't think we're getting an apples to apples comparison here.

airowe
03-18-2010, 05:02 PM
Uhm... Duke's tuition is currently 37500, or about 300,000 per player. Maryland's is 6500, or about 50k per player.

Not only is Duke way more expensive off the bat, but tuition at Maryland exceeds their "cost per player," so somewhere I don't think we're getting an apples to apples comparison here.

Who says they pay tuition at Maryland? ;)

ArnieMc
03-18-2010, 05:04 PM
Uhm... Duke's tuition is currently 37500, or about 300,000 per player. Maryland's is 6500, or about 50k per player.

Not only is Duke way more expensive off the bat, but tuition at Maryland exceeds their "cost per player," so somewhere I don't think we're getting an apples to apples comparison here.I don't understand the math. If Duke's tuition is 37,500 per year, why do you multiply it by 8? 37,500 is 37,500.