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Coastal Devil
03-16-2010, 09:06 PM
Hey now that Carrick is "in the truck". What about his front court mate? Any word? I would love to get another 5 player to help Miles/Mason. We're going to miss Zoubs size and rebounding next yr. I worry about the Plumlees foul trouble next yr. I know it will be worked on but we're really going to miss LT and Zoubs.

Thoughts? Do you think we're done for 2010??? Prob so huh..

DukeSean
03-17-2010, 12:20 AM
We're going to miss Zoubs size and rebounding next yr.

Never thought I'd hear those words once upon a time, but glad it's true now.

Jim3k
03-17-2010, 12:41 AM
I believe we are waiting to see how he recovers from the ACL injury. It may be he needs another at Southern Idaho for us to learn.

-bdbd
03-17-2010, 01:58 AM
Yeah, espescially since HE was the guy Nate was going there to see originally - not Felix - I've been surprised at the lack of reporting on him. We really know much less than we do about Carrick "The Cat" Felix.

I am on record on these boards as being very concerned about our lack of front-court depth next year, having only two true interior players to man the two supposed interior-oriented positions (4 AND 5). I think that folks around here are just crossing their fingers and hoping that Ryan adds some bulk and an "interior-oriented" attitude over the next 6 months.... Also, hoping that Hairston or Felix can help out inside. Heaven help us if either Plumlee has an injury or foul problems (as they frequently have this year).

But we have more important fish to fry over the next three weeks!


:D

Kewlswim
03-17-2010, 02:00 AM
I believe we are waiting to see how he recovers from the ACL injury. It may be he needs another at Southern Idaho for us to learn.

Hi,

Only players with 3 years eligibility, according to Coach K, will be recruited into the program from a JC or as a transfer. Why you may ask? This is because it will take at least 3 years to be able to graduate from Duke. If Aziz is spending another year at the JC I believe this will limit him to only 2 years eligibility when he leaves.

GO DUKE!

Jim3k
03-17-2010, 02:12 AM
Hi,

Only players with 3 years eligibility, according to Coach K, will be recruited into the program from a JC or as a transfer. Why you may ask? This is because it will take at least 3 years to be able to graduate from Duke. If Aziz is spending another year at the JC I believe this will limit him to only 2 years eligibility when he leaves.

GO DUKE!

Not really. He's only played one year, AFAIK. Plus he has five years to play four. (And maybe six if there's a medical hardship.) So he has three left, if I'm right about his only having played one year.

crote
03-17-2010, 02:59 AM
Not really. He's only played one year, AFAIK. Plus he has five years to play four. (And maybe six if there's a medical hardship.) So he has three left, if I'm right about his only having played one year.

Scout has him listed as a sophomore (compared to Felix, who is a RS Freshman), which means he would have three years to play two, four to play two if he got a medical hardship. Hard to see K tying up a scholarship for three, possibly four years for two years of playing time from a player who, with no offense intended for his talents, does not seem like a high priority, and who would only be able to contribute in game for two seasons.

Jim3k
03-17-2010, 03:07 AM
Scout has him listed as a sophomore (compared to Felix, who is a RS Freshman), which means he would have three years to play two, four to play two if he got a medical hardship. Hard to see K tying up a scholarship for three, possibly four years for two years of playing time from a player who, with no offense intended for his talents, does not seem like a high priority, and who would only be able to contribute in game for two seasons.

Scout actually reports (http://washington.scout.com/a.z?s=147&p=2&c=949948&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fwashington.scout.com%2f2 %2f949948.html) that he has sat out his sophomore year. So he has not yet used his sophomore eligibility.

Even so, if he came back to CSI he'd use that year, leaving him with only two more. OTOH, it's possible, I suppose, that Duke could take a chance on him over the summer.

But, I guess the chances of him coming to Duke are slim, since the 3-year requirement for a Duke degree could not be met unless K takes that chance.

CDu
03-17-2010, 07:45 AM
I am on record on these boards as being very concerned about our lack of front-court depth next year, having only two true interior players to man the two supposed interior-oriented positions (4 AND 5). I think that folks around here are just crossing their fingers and hoping that Ryan adds some bulk and an "interior-oriented" attitude over the next 6 months.... Also, hoping that Hairston or Felix can help out inside. Heaven help us if either Plumlee has an injury or foul problems (as they frequently have this year).

But we have more important fish to fry over the next three weeks!

You keep saying that Kelly will have to develop an interior attitude. Why do you think this? The guy played interior defense in high school, was recruited to play the 4 in college. If anything, he had to adjust his attitude to defend a bit more on the perimeter this year because the team needed perimeter bodies.

Duke will ask him to return to his natural position next year. He'll defend 4s (which means sometimes he'll defend on the blocks, sometimes on the perimeter). And offensively he'll play a faceup 4 game, which has been Duke's M.O. for most of the Coach K era. This is the first time we've played two players predominantly on the post at the same time for most of the game.

Next year, the Plumlees will fill the minutes at the 5 (with Mason also getting time at the 4). So why do you think Kelly will have problems adjusting? I see no reason why he should have trouble returning to the role he's played the last few years. The only question is whether he can add enough strength. And with an offseason to work out and practice against ACC-quality competition, I don't see why this should be unexpected.

airowe
03-17-2010, 08:35 AM
You keep saying that Kelly will have to develop an interior attitude. Why do you think this? The guy played interior defense in high school, was recruited to play the 4 in college. If anything, he had to adjust his attitude to defend a bit more on the perimeter this year because the team needed perimeter bodies.

Duke will ask him to return to his natural position next year. He'll defend 4s (which means sometimes he'll defend on the blocks, sometimes on the perimeter). And offensively he'll play a faceup 4 game, which has been Duke's M.O. for most of the Coach K era. This is the first time we've played two players predominantly on the post at the same time for most of the game.

Next year, the Plumlees will fill the minutes at the 5 (with Mason also getting time at the 4). So why do you think Kelly will have problems adjusting? I see no reason why he should have trouble returning to the role he's played the last few years. The only question is whether he can add enough strength. And with an offseason to work out and practice against ACC-quality competition, I don't see why this should be unexpected.

Yeah, no one should worry about Ryan's attitude. I have no doubt he will be able to put on the bulk needed to compete on the inside next year. If he didn't get sick this Summer, he would probably be at his ideal weight by now anyways.

The Aziz ship has sailed. By the time he heals from his injury, it will be too late for him to come to Duke.

JohnGalt
03-17-2010, 09:02 AM
Yeah, no one should worry about Ryan's attitude. I have no doubt he will be able to put on the bulk needed to compete on the inside next year. If he didn't get sick this Summer, he would probably be at his ideal weight by now anyways.

The Aziz ship has sailed. By the time he heals from his injury, it will be too late for him to come to Duke.

Attitude doesn't necessarily translate into weight gain. People have physical limitations and can only get so big. If you look at how skinny Ryan's neck, ankles, and wrists are, I have a hard time believing he will be able to gain a tremendous amount of weight. He still can be a quality face up 4, but I think he's a little more limited physically than people realize.

I agree though that the Aziz ship has sailed. Too bad for him that injury limited what potentially could have been a career at Duke. The lack of frontcourt depth next year is a little scary, but it looks as though K is trying to mitigate it by bringing in Haynes...the kid sounds like an enforcer. What if he could rebound and block like Joey Dorsey used to? Oh boy...

CDu
03-17-2010, 09:12 AM
Attitude doesn't necessarily translate into weight gain. People have physical limitations and can only get so big. If you look at how skinny Ryan's neck, ankles, and wrists are, I have a hard time believing he will be able to gain a tremendous amount of weight. He still can be a quality face up 4, but I think he's a little more limited physically than people realize.

I agree though that the Aziz ship has sailed. Too bad for him that injury limited what potentially could have been a career at Duke. The lack of frontcourt depth next year is a little scary, but it looks as though K is trying to mitigate it by bringing in Haynes...the kid sounds like an enforcer. What if he could rebound and block like Joey Dorsey used to? Oh boy...

It's more a need to get stronger than to necessarily gain weight. But the "attitude" comment was more regarding Kelly's willingness to defend inside, not his willingness to try to gain weight/strength. The former is not an issue (he was an interior defender when he came to Duke but was asked to play a different role this year at times). The latter is a question.

The only question with regard to Kelly will be whether or not he can get stronger/bigger over the summer. I'm sure he'll get stronger, and I'm sure he'll get somewhat bigger. But I don't think that "developing the mentality to defend in the post" is going to be an issue.

-bdbd
03-17-2010, 10:53 AM
It's more a need to get stronger than to necessarily gain weight. But the "attitude" comment was more regarding Kelly's willingness to defend inside, not his willingness to try to gain weight/strength. The former is not an issue (he was an interior defender when he came to Duke but was asked to play a different role this year at times). The latter is a question.

The only question with regard to Kelly will be whether or not he can get stronger/bigger over the summer. I'm sure he'll get stronger, and I'm sure he'll get somewhat bigger. But I don't think that "developing the mentality to defend in the post" is going to be an issue.

Hey CDu, not at all questioning Ryan's "attitude" in general. By all indications he's a good kid. But I just see a couple question marks around us counting on him as our third interior option when, as in many scenarios, we'll need to play two interior-oriented rebounders/scorers/defenders. This year we have 2.5 - Z, Lance and Kyle sometimes. All I'm saying is that isn't a given capability for next year. 'hope I'm wrong. Yes, bulk/strength build-up is very important, but even with a good attitude many kids just can't put on weight /bulk that easily. Also, this year he's obviously played much more on the exterior. And I just haven't seen an inclination towards interior play, even when the opportunity presented itself. Whether that was purely K strategy, or a reticence by Ryan to go up against big bodies in college, that is another matter. (Playing interior in HS against 6-4 to 6-6 centers, typically in the 200 lb range, is very different than battling 6-9 to 7-1 guys in the 230 - 260 range.) Having only played HS ball I can only say, based on that experience, that there is a clear attitude/approach difference between internally and externally-focused players -- things like seeking out contact, fighting for position, and just general interior physicality. I have no doubt that he CAN adjust, but I simply argue that it isn't a "given"... in addition to the bulk issue. Which could affect our interior-oriented depth, and wheter we want to bring in another interior guy, like Aziz or the shorter interior kid from VA.


Go Duke!!

:o

CDu
03-17-2010, 11:51 AM
Hey CDu, not at all questioning Ryan's "attitude" in general. By all indications he's a good kid. But I just see a couple question marks around us counting on him as our third interior option when, as in many scenarios, we'll need to play two interior-oriented rebounders/scorers/defenders. This year we have 2.5 - Z, Lance and Kyle sometimes. All I'm saying is that isn't a given capability for next year. 'hope I'm wrong. Yes, bulk/strength build-up is very important, but even with a good attitude many kids just can't put on weight /bulk that easily. Also, this year he's obviously played much more on the exterior. And I just haven't seen an inclination towards interior play, even when the opportunity presented itself. Whether that was purely K strategy, or a reticence by Ryan to go up against big bodies in college, that is another matter. (Playing interior in HS against 6-4 to 6-6 centers, typically in the 200 lb range, is very different than battling 6-9 to 7-1 guys in the 230 - 260 range.) Having only played HS ball I can only say, based on that experience, that there is a clear attitude/approach difference between internally and externally-focused players -- things like seeking out contact, fighting for position, and just general interior physicality. I have no doubt that he CAN adjust, but I simply argue that it isn't a "given"... in addition to the bulk issue. Which could affect our interior-oriented depth, and wheter we want to bring in another interior guy, like Aziz or the shorter interior kid from VA.


Go Duke!!

:o

With regard to the first bolded comment, I reintroduce my previous question. Why do you assume we need two interior-oriented players on the floor all the time? This year is extremely out of the norm. Historically, we've had one interior player with one outside/inside player at the 4. This year, we're playing two big guys all the time out of necessity only. If we go back to our roots and play one interior player with an outside/inside guy at the 4, then that plays exactly to Kelly's natural role.

As for the second bolded comment, I again note that Kelly has historically played interior defense and a perimeter-oriented offense. This year, he's not been asked to play as much interior defense. Next year, he'll be asked to return to his natural defensive role. But offensively, I think he's going to be an outside/inside guy - capable of posting up occasionally, but more of a high-post/perimeter offensive player.

So again, I think you're suggesting a need for adjustment that doesn't exist. He's always been a post defender. The only question is whether or not Kelly gets strong enough to defend at the college level.

theAlaskanBear
03-17-2010, 11:53 AM
Hey CDu, not at all questioning Ryan's "attitude" in general. By all indications he's a good kid. But I just see a couple question marks around us counting on him as our third interior option when, as in many scenarios, we'll need to play two interior-oriented rebounders/scorers/defenders. This year we have 2.5 - Z, Lance and Kyle sometimes. All I'm saying is that isn't a given capability for next year. 'hope I'm wrong. Yes, bulk/strength build-up is very important, but even with a good attitude many kids just can't put on weight /bulk that easily. Also, this year he's obviously played much more on the exterior. And I just haven't seen an inclination towards interior play, even when the opportunity presented itself. Whether that was purely K strategy, or a reticence by Ryan to go up against big bodies in college, that is another matter. (Playing interior in HS against 6-4 to 6-6 centers, typically in the 200 lb range, is very different than battling 6-9 to 7-1 guys in the 230 - 260 range.) Having only played HS ball I can only say, based on that experience, that there is a clear attitude/approach difference between internally and externally-focused players -- things like seeking out contact, fighting for position, and just general interior physicality. I have no doubt that he CAN adjust, but I simply argue that it isn't a "given"... in addition to the bulk issue. Which could affect our interior-oriented depth, and wheter we want to bring in another interior guy, like Aziz or the shorter interior kid from VA.


Go Duke!!

:o

It just depends on what one considers to be an "inside man". If you break it down into the three components -- defense, scoring, and rebounding -- that you suggested, then yes he can be an interior option, in two of those three areas (defense and rebounding). However, you seem mainly focused on interior scoring when you talk about seeking contact, fighting for position, etc.

My view is that Ryan was never recruited to be an interior scorer, as most on this board pine for (like Boozer, Shelden, etc), but as a big man who can spread the floor on offense, while being an adequate defender. Because Ryan is a face-up shooter and a three point threat, he can open up the lane on offense for dribble penetration and cuts to the basket, or to prevent help defense and provide room for 1v1 big man game.

So no, he wont be a "low-post banger" but a faceup big man who spreads the floor on offense. Think of Wisconsin big men who can usually shoot the three and mid range jumpers.

theAlaskanBear
03-17-2010, 11:56 AM
The main threats to score inside next year will be Singler (if he returns), and the Plumlees, but I dont view that as deficient, because I think our points in the paint will be much more drive-oriented and fast break with Kyrie and Curry in the fold.

gumbomoop
03-17-2010, 11:56 AM
The guy played interior defense in high school, was recruited to play the 4 in college. If anything, he had to adjust his attitude to defend a bit more on the perimeter this year because the team needed perimeter bodies.

Duke will ask him to return to his natural position next year. He'll defend 4s (which means sometimes he'll defend on the blocks, sometimes on the perimeter). And offensively he'll play a faceup 4 game, which has been Duke's M.O. for most of the Coach K era. This is the first time we've played two players predominantly on the post at the same time for most of the game.

Next year, the Plumlees will fill the minutes at the 5 (with Mason also getting time at the 4). So why do you think Kelly will have problems adjusting? I see no reason why he should have trouble returning to the role he's played the last few years. The only question is whether he can add enough strength. And with an offseason to work out and practice against ACC-quality competition, I don't see why this should be unexpected.

I agree with every word here. Clearly Duke will begin next season with some ?-marks at 4-5. But I look forward, without any great fears, to some pronounced improvement from RK and both MPs. These guys all have real ACC-level talent. MP2 has biggest upside, though we've only seen hints this season. MP1 likely to continue steady progress, with big hops, blocks, some surprising mid-range shot, and, one hopes, much better hands.

RK? He's got smarts, is going to become a really good high post passer, can shoot, and can already rebound, for he's willing to go get the ball. He's smart, he's smart, he knows how to play. It's just that this season his skills fell to #5 among the bigs, and #5 among the perimeters. So he simply didn't have enough opportunities this year. He doesn't seem to have sulked about it.

I'm claiming he's a player, and we're going to enjoy his play soon enough.

Kedsy
03-17-2010, 12:45 PM
I am on record on these boards as being very concerned about our lack of front-court depth next year, having only two true interior players to man the two supposed interior-oriented positions (4 AND 5). I think that folks around here are just crossing their fingers and hoping that Ryan adds some bulk and an "interior-oriented" attitude over the next 6 months.... Also, hoping that Hairston or Felix can help out inside. Heaven help us if either Plumlee has an injury or foul problems (as they frequently have this year).

I think CDu responded well to this, but I wanted to add my own take. Frontcourt depth is always important for defense, and Ryan should be able to be part of a four man rotation that can defend inside (which is pretty much what we're using this year). Even without the bulk/strength that he seems to need, he is our best shotblocker per 40 minutes (by a fairly large margin) at 2.6 blocks per 40, and his rebounding (6.8 per 40) is adequate for a guy who appears to get pushed around a lot.

As far as multiple inside threats on offense, do you honestly think our team will have trouble scoring next year? The easy baskets we need next year probably won't come from dumping it down to a back-to-the-basket operator no matter how much depth we have; they will come from drive-and-dish or fast breaks. If the MPs suffer foul trouble and it doesn't hurt us on defense, it won't really hurt us.

Of course, having said all that, in order to have the four person inside defensive rotation next year, either Kyle must return or Josh or Carrick must be capable of defending the interior. Neither of those are givens, but I wouldn't worry about Ryan's part in the plan.

jipops
03-17-2010, 02:07 PM
I think CDu responded well to this, but I wanted to add my own take. Frontcourt depth is always important for defense, and Ryan should be able to be part of a four man rotation that can defend inside (which is pretty much what we're using this year). Even without the bulk/strength that he seems to need, he is our best shotblocker per 40 minutes (by a fairly large margin) at 2.6 blocks per 40, and his rebounding (6.8 per 40) is adequate for a guy who appears to get pushed around a lot.

As far as multiple inside threats on offense, do you honestly think our team will have trouble scoring next year? The easy baskets we need next year probably won't come from dumping it down to a back-to-the-basket operator no matter how much depth we have; they will come from drive-and-dish or fast breaks. If the MPs suffer foul trouble and it doesn't hurt us on defense, it won't really hurt us.

Of course, having said all that, in order to have the four person inside defensive rotation next year, either Kyle must return or Josh or Carrick must be capable of defending the interior. Neither of those are givens, but I wouldn't worry about Ryan's part in the plan.

An additional note- it was reported some time ago that Hairston has grown another inch and is up to 6-9. So that gives us 4 possible rotation guys standing 6-9 or taller. I think we'll be just fine.

MrBisonDevil
03-17-2010, 03:09 PM
What about academics? Just because we recruited one juco player doesn't mean the floodgates are open. Felix was a special case that included a good academic record for support.

Felix had a good academic profile before going the juco route. His choice to go juco was because he was not getting recruited by major programs and playing juco basketball would allow him to make a push for a reputable DI program. Check. Additionally, NCAA rules about transferring from juco to DI are smoother than DI to DI transfers.

Back to the question: I don't know what big body we will have to help M & M. Who knows? Maybe we don't need one if we become a run & gun team.

pfrduke
03-17-2010, 03:54 PM
Back to the question: I don't know what big body we will have to help M & M. Who knows? Maybe we don't need one if we become a run & gun team.

Next year's roster is essentially set. We have four players who are PF/C: Kelly, Hairston, Mason, and Miles. The ability of the first two to provide added post defense is, as you note, an open question right now. It's also worth noting that if Singler returns, he'll spend a lot more time as a wing 4 playing with 3 guards. This year, our depth is in size; next year it will be back in the backcourt, with Smith, Irving, Dawkins, Curry, Thornton, and Felix.

JaMarcus Russell
04-13-2010, 08:23 PM
In case anyone is interested, Aziz N'Diaye committed to Washington. Apparently, he also seriously considered Oklahoma.

Source is Jeff Goodman's Twitter.