PP/Greg Monroe

[ScreechTDX]

Some of Patterson's comments about not liking the Duke team and liking the Duke recruits the least make me feel doubtful about the acquisition of Monroe.

I think Patterson saw a racial disparity between Duke basketball and the other schools. I also think that is an understandable reason for him.

[SMO]

Yeah, it's understandable when someone doesn't want to play with people of another race.:confused:

I hope that statement was reflective of the poster putting words into Patterson's mouth and not of his actual feelings.


Some of Patterson's comments about not liking the Duke team and liking the Duke recruits the least make me feel doubtful about the acquisition of Monroe.

I think Patterson saw a racial disparity between Duke basketball and the other schools. I also think that is an understandable reason for him.

[ScreechTDX]

Yeah, it's understandable when someone doesn't want to play with people of another race.:confused:

I hope that statement was reflective of the poster putting words into Patterson's mouth and not of his actual feelings.

I knew something like this response ^^^ would be the first thing posted. Don't take it form a racist standpoint. No matter how you feel is it not clearly evident in most places "birds of a feather flock together."

I'm not racist, but if someone told me they felt that way then I would understand.

And yes, I am totally putting words in Patterson's mouth. It was just something that popped into my head.

[ScreechTDX]

I, for one, think we get too many goofy white dudes.:D ;)

p.s. I.m white.

[Classof06]

If that's Patterson's argument, then that's pretty lame. As a black male on a college campus, he's about as minority as you get no matter where he goes. I also don't feel it's a question of race when you have a Johnny Dawkins as an Associate HC and you have multiple black players on the team.

If he didn't get along with the recruits/players because he just didn't get along with them, that's one thing. And that's all I've heard out of his mouth, so that's where I'll leave it.

Honestly, I'm glad this whole process is over, because I never knew what to believe from the beginning besides what I heard from Watzone.

[Exiled_Devil]

Have a sense of f'n humor.:rolleyes:

Racism is not something to 'have a sense of humor' about. This thread has the feel of the 'wink and nod' version of racism. If you are intending that, good job. If not, you should make a clear indication.

Condoning racism is not something that is okay.

Exiled

[Lord Ash]

Whoa whoa whoa; let's step back and have a LITTLE perspective please.

This is NOT a thread about RACISM.

It is a thread about a player and his saying that he didn't feel like he meshed with the players at Duke.

Now, you can go ahead and stick your head in the sand and pretend that all people are the same if you wish, but I think that is a bit unrealistic.

At Duke we definately do seem to have a higher percentage of white players than at many top tier programs. How that impacts our program is an interesting social and sports phenomenon, and one worth discussing.

All discusion of race is NOT automatically racist. As someone who lived in Alpha Phi Alpha at Duke and who was an African American Studies major, I can attest to that. "Racism" is when you attribute a NEGATIVE connotation to a race, which no one has really done here, unless you TRULY take massive umbridge at "goofy," in which case I think you are a bit oversensitive.

So I think asking how our team makeup affects recruits is definately worth discussing, especially in light of how it came up. Don't go sticking your head in the sand because race is mentioned, please.

[Exiled_Devil]

Whoa whoa whoa; let's step back and have a LITTLE perspective please.

This is NOT a thread about RACISM.

It is a thread about a player and his saying that he didn't feel like he meshed with the players at Duke.

Now, you can go ahead and stick your head in the sand and pretend that all people are the same if you wish, but I think that is a bit unrealistic.

At Duke we definately do seem to have a higher percentage of white players than at many top tier programs. How that impacts our program is an interesting social and sports phenomenon, and one worth discussing.

All discusion of race is NOT automatically racist. As someone who lived in Alpha Phi Alpha at Duke and who was an African American Studies major, I can attest to that. "Racism" is when you attribute a NEGATIVE connotation to a race, which no one has really done here, unless you TRULY take massive umbridge at "goofy," in which case I think you are a bit oversensitive.

So I think asking how our team makeup affects recruits is definately worth discussing, especially in light of how it came up. Don't go sticking your head in the sand because race is mentioned, please.

First of all, I was stating that this had the feel of racism, no that the thread was a bout racism. Some of what lead me to that conclusion has been erased from the thread already, so it changes the context. In regard to what I posted, (which I assume is your inspiration for asking for perspective), it was a little aggressive, but I stand by it. If SchreechTDX wasn't talking racism than I would appreciate him being more explicit about it.


On to the on-topic aspect of this:
ScreechTDX said he was putting words into PP's mouth. As a consequence, this discussion is purely theoretical. As such, it is grossly inappropriate to attribute attitudes to people when we don't have complete data. Playing time, personality, work ethic, egos, and any number of factors could force the issue of not fitting with the individuals on the team. The challenge is that they are not as easy to see as race. Honestly, to assume race in a case like this where we have little information is intellectually lazy.

Exiled

[hondoheel]

attributed Brian Butch's turning down of UNC to not being comfortable with a (then) all black team. Or it was thinly veiled as not having "swagger."

[kydevil]

If you honestly think PP didn't come to Duke because of a racial disparity I find that hard to believe. If this was the problem then I doubt he would have signed with Uk, seeing that Kentucky is a mostly white school, as well as the city of Lexington and its surrounding areas.
This will have no effect on the recruiting of Monroe, due to the fact that it's an absurd claim.

[pamtar]

So whats this got to do with Greg Monroe?

[kramerbr]

...is misleading.

I would of never even of read it had it been titled what it should of been, however the original poster did it to draw in discussion. IMHO

[Patrick Yates]

I really am worried about Greg Monroe. Not because of racism, no racism (file this under most useless, idiotic, non sequitor on the Board Ever), etc.

He is really good. He could go anywhere in America. We have no backup plan, apparantly. Many of his recent quotes have indicated that he is more wide open than we have been lead to believe. It is not just an LSU, TX, and Duke race, with UNC and a few others trailing.

I really believe he is wide open. He may like Duke, but I can really see him taking until May to decide, thus ensuring the best situation for himself. Because, let's face it, if GM called up to committ, you would find a scholly somewhere. Based on the few comments I have read, GM could end up anywhere.

Also, despite the fact that LSU is currently in the toilet, there will be tremendous pressure on GM to resurrect the local program, especially in the wake of the Katrina Rebuilding Effort. This kind of state wide pressure will be real hard to ignore. KY is white hot nationally right now, and BG will be putting the push on, hard. KS, UNC, UL and others can offer as much as we can.

My real fear here is that there appears to be no backup plan in place. Duke is not being mentioned by any of the other top posts as being considered. If we whiff on GM, we will be looking at another class of (we assume) wings. Because, for the first time in a while, Duke does not have committed players/strong leans heading into the summer. This time last year we had all but locked up Smith, King, with Singler having us in his final 2-4 with his preference for Duke widely whispered.

We do not need any more wings, unless it is to get a replacement for Henderson, who could be a candidate for early entry (assuming smith is an adequate replacement for DM). I am getting a little weary of the steady stream of Wings into the program, when it is becomming more evident every year that the two key components to a NC level team are an athletic PG and very capable post presence.

Our PG situation is what it is, some like it, some don't. We are OK at PG, and without injury to slow him down, anything can happen.

But the post is thin. BZ could get there, but he is at least another year off of being a real threat, and he is still a big IF, even then. I like LT, but he is more of a Shane type PF, who is a pro level SF playing up to PF. Basically he will play the exact same position as Singler. We are really lacking a Shel, Booz, Brand type of low post banger/shot blocking presence.

If we do not get GM, I truly fear that the 08-09 season, which is really shaping up to be a special year with all the current talent in place, will be missing that one piece. Obviously, GM is that missing piece. But if we do not get him, we do not seem to be positioned well for a back up.

I know it is early, and that the staff needs to evaluate players over the summer, but K's time is restricted anyway due to National Team considerations.

I know that I was the original howler panic monkey (but I was completely right about virtually all my concerns, not that I got credit or an apology afterwards), but again, the sky may be falling. Not to the extent of the past season, but without GM we will see the team fall just short in two years for lack of an athletic, mobile, big man. GM would be ideal, but given the talent we will have in place, a lesser player would do almost as well. That team (barring attrition/defection) will not need the post to do anything but rebound, play D, and pick up 8-10 ppg, mostly on garbage baskets. But we will need all of those things to bring home the NC.

I would like to see the staff pursue other players. Just in case, you know?

Patrick Yates

[Indoor66]

Why don't you call K and make the suggestion?

[arnie]

Your comments are dead on. I recall many posters blasting away when a great number of us recognized the team.s limitations early last season. Unless Zoubek makes huge strides - we will be playing very small. Unless Nolan Smith can really help out at the point (which I think is more likely to happen), we will be limited at that position compared to Top 10 programs.

It appears Duke will be good next year, but I don't see us maintaining the high perch that we enjoyed from the late 1990's thru 2005-2006. But, I bellieve the team will be fun to watch!

[SilkyJ]

Your comments are dead on. I recall many posters blasting away when a great number of us recognized the team.s limitations early last season. Unless Zoubek makes huge strides - we will be playing very small. Unless Nolan Smith can really help out at the point (which I think is more likely to happen), we will be limited at that position compared to Top 10 programs.

It appears Duke will be good next year, but I don't see us maintaining the high perch that we enjoyed from the late 1990's thru 2005-2006. But, I bellieve the team will be fun to watch!

Echo echo. Even if zou exceeds all of our expectations. Who spells him when he needs a blow? What about foul trouble (BOUND to happen to a 7 footer)? At a minimum we need a backup post presence, and we dont even have that! Now, the staff has time to get another post presence before Zou leaves town in 3 years, but you've always got to have someone who can provide relief.

Sheld had Shav & McBob, and PJ in an emergency. Boozer had Casey Sanders/reggie love (amazing that he could play the 5 at 6'4", btw), and brand had chris burgess.

[jimsumner]

I flat out guarantee you that Greg Monroe will not be the only big man targeted by Duke from the class of '08. In fact, Duke would like to bring in Monroe and another big man.

Duke will be active this summer evaluating bigs. Look for Michael Dunnigan from Chicago to start getting lots of attention.

FWIW, no one expects Greg Monroe to wait until next spring to pick a school.

[freedevil]

I just want Duke to land Greg!

Go DUKE!

[ScreechTDX]

Are we still going after Samardo Samuels?

On scout .com it looks like we are'nt or we are trailing...

[thebur]

I agree with you Yates, Greg Monroe is a huge target especially after the 3:45 news conference yesterday.

I think that we will have a decent shot, and the word on the street is that Duke is giving him a lot of attention, making sure that someone is there to watch him and to talk to him (when allowed) at camp games, all star events, and the like. (watzone confirm/deny/no comment?) I think Coach K does a good job of letting a kid know he truly cares a lot about them as a player, I just hope it is clear to Greg what kind of team it would be if he could be the lynchpin for.

I think how we compete next season will have a great effect on GM, if we can have a solid season and fairly strong NCAA tournament he will have to realize the kind of potential that the group we are putting out there next season will have.

I am really excited about Singler, King, and Smith's arrivals, I think Singler has the ability to be a VERY special player in the Duke system. Let's hope Greg just sees as much potential in them as we all do!

[captmojo]

Maybe PP wasn't thrilled with the possibility of being labeled "PP"....or maybe he prefers bluegrass music over what might be played in Duke's locker room.

Greg Monroe isn't related to Bill Monroe is he?

[whereinthehellami]

My real fear here is that there appears to be no backup plan in place. Duke is not being mentioned by any of the other top posts as being considered. If we whiff on GM, we will be looking at another class of (we assume) wings. Because, for the first time in a while, Duke does not have committed players/strong leans heading into the summer. This time last year we had all but locked up Smith, King, with Singler having us in his final 2-4 with his preference for Duke widely whispered.

This is a good point. Kids are being recruited earlier and earlier and its getting harder and harder to wait on kids and get into the mix late in the game as kids see it as a "loyalty" issue.

Duke was in on Drew Gordon (6-9) but he stayed home (UCLA). Gordon would have been a really good fit as he likes to mix it ip underneath.

Duke was in the mix with Samardo Samuels (6-8) but hasn't been mentioned by him in awhile, so it seems one of the parties or both have cooled on each other.

The only other elite recruits (outside of Monroe) that list Duke now are Elliot Williams (getting involved late)and Travis Releford (heavy Kansas lean) and they are shooting guards.

It really makes you wonder what the thought process is right now with the coaches. Are they concerned? I'd sure like to be a fly on the wall during their recruiting meetings.

[johnb]

Team ethnic makeup seems less important than interpersonal fit, and there are plenty of 18 year olds who may not feel entirely comfortable on the Duke campus, on the Duke team, playing for Duke's coaches. And Kentucky has a lot of great things to offer PP, including proximity. And while he would have been a solid adition, he still would not be a post presence against someone like Hansblah.

There are, however, very few 7 foot players who are McDonald's All Americans and members of the National Honors Society. And if they are, they are getting recruiting letters (and myspace offers) from every college in the country.

I'm sure we have backup plans if Monroe doesn't work out, but it's not like the back up is likely to be another Laettner.

[Patrick Yates]

I know that there are not many 7 footers who are Duke material. Greg Monroe falls into this catagory. He is listed as 6-9 to 6-10 and 215-235 lbs. Even on the top side of that, he is by no means huge. He is not a low post bully in the Shel mold, but his athleticism/skills are why he is number 1.

I know that the backup plan won't be as good. He is the number 1 player in the class, so there may not be another player as good as him anyway.

But there are no whispers of us being in on anyone else, period. We will need some sort of post player next year, and outside of GM, who is no done deal, far from t, imho, we don't seem to be after anyone.

Next years recruiting needs (IM(not so)HO):

Worst Case: Singler really explodes and has a great year and the team makes a mildly surprising elite eight run. He goes pro, leaving a huge whole unless LT and TK make huge strides. GH could also go, but as I stated, we are OK on the wing without adding a single player. With KS in the pros, our only definite low post choices are LT and BZ, with McLure and King being forced to play out of position in support. We would have to have at least 2 bigs, one true post and one combo player a la Shane, Singler, Lang, etc. Without solid recruits, we would be very thin up front.

Best Case: Singler is good, but not fantastic. He is just good enough on a fairly successful team (Sw. 16) to be hungry for more, as well as needing a summer in the gym. The entire team returns, meaning we lose only DN. Realistically, we would only need 1 post incomming, because I do believe we are well situated with players graduating in 09. If that 1 post were GM, he would be the 1 and done x-factor type player who would make an experienced and talented team of Dukies into the preseason No.1 or 2 (really depends on Recruiting/Attrition at UNC and OSU as to preseason rankings). Once the stud post was integrated into the system, we would really roll.

These are two possible/likely scenarios. I will not conjecture as to transfers, academic casualties, or serious injuries, cause those possibilities are infinite.

Now, GM would be ideal in either scenario. Obviously any back-up plan would pale in comparison to GM. But, there is a chance we will need 2 servicable big men in next year's class. We definitely need at least 1. We have to have a post next season to achieve what we are otherwise capable of in the 08-09 season.

Also, there is the chance that BZ does not develop into a reliable player, and that LT cannot get big enough to be a low post. (LT is more of a combo player naturally, I think). This is a real nightmare scenario. We would have to have post, or it would be 95 all over again.

Currently, we are only being mentioned by the No. 1 big, who is a crapshoot, regardless of what any expert may say otherwise. He would be welcomed at, and would start at, 90-95 % of the top programs in D-1. His options are limitless.

Our risk is off the chart.

Again, if we got no one, and retained everyone, we will be OK in 2 years. But with the right post, Duke could be spectacular. GM would be perfect, but he is not the only choice. I merely wish to see some movement as to pursuing other options, just in case.

Patrick Yates

[ScreechTDX]

I know that there are not many 7 footers who are Duke material. Greg Monroe falls into this catagory. He is listed as 6-9 to 6-10 and 215-235 lbs. Even on the top side of that, he is by no means huge. He is not a low post bully in the Shel mold, but his athleticism/skills are why he is number 1.

I know that the backup plan won't be as good. He is the number 1 player in the class, so there may not be another player as good as him anyway.

But there are no whispers of us being in on anyone else, period. We will need some sort of post player next year, and outside of GM, who is no done deal, far from t, imho, we don't seem to be after anyone.

Next years recruiting needs (IM(not so)HO):

Worst Case: Singler really explodes and has a great year and the team makes a mildly surprising elite eight run. He goes pro, leaving a huge whole unless LT and TK make huge strides. GH could also go, but as I stated, we are OK on the wing without adding a single player. With KS in the pros, our only definite low post choices are LT and BZ, with McLure and King being forced to play out of position in support. We would have to have at least 2 bigs, one true post and one combo player a la Shane, Singler, Lang, etc. Without solid recruits, we would be very thin up front.

Best Case: Singler is good, but not fantastic. He is just good enough on a fairly successful team (Sw. 16) to be hungry for more, as well as needing a summer in the gym. The entire team returns, meaning we lose only DN. Realistically, we would only need 1 post incomming, because I do believe we are well situated with players graduating in 09. If that 1 post were GM, he would be the 1 and done x-factor type player who would make an experienced and talented team of Dukies into the preseason No.1 or 2 (really depends on Recruiting/Attrition at UNC and OSU as to preseason rankings). Once the stud post was integrated into the system, we would really roll.

These are two possible/likely scenarios. I will not conjecture as to transfers, academic casualties, or serious injuries, cause those possibilities are infinite.

Now, GM would be ideal in either scenario. Obviously any back-up plan would pale in comparison to GM. But, there is a chance we will need 2 servicable big men in next year's class. We definitely need at least 1. We have to have a post next season to achieve what we are otherwise capable of in the 08-09 season.

Also, there is the chance that BZ does not develop into a reliable player, and that LT cannot get big enough to be a low post. (LT is more of a combo player naturally, I think). This is a real nightmare scenario. We would have to have post, or it would be 95 all over again.

Currently, we are only being mentioned by the No. 1 big, who is a crapshoot, regardless of what any expert may say otherwise. He would be welcomed at, and would start at, 90-95 % of the top programs in D-1. His options are limitless.

Our risk is off the chart.

Again, if we got no one, and retained everyone, we will be OK in 2 years. But with the right post, Duke could be spectacular. GM would be perfect, but he is not the only choice. I merely wish to see some movement as to pursuing other options, just in case.

Patrick Yates

Good analysis.

Anyone willing to sell Roy William's soul for LOI from Greg Monroe?

*raising hand*

[wilko]

Good analysis.

Anyone willing to sell Roy William's soul for LOI from Greg Monroe?

*raising hand*

I'd sell Roy or any of his piss pot blue brethren souls' for a half eaten hot dog.

[ikiru36]

I know that Duke has had a number of those recruits who are ready to play major minutes their first year, even against top competition. And I ain't complaining. But, c'mon, the ones who aren't completely ready for prime time their freshman years, give 'em a chance to develop before declaring what they've already shown they can't do or who they can't be.

At 90+% of D-I schools (even at Duke during past stretches), maybe one kid each year has some "diamond in the rough" buzz (all region or some such accolade) and the rest of the kids are relative projects. Yet through physical development, hard work, practice and playing time, and a bit of luck, enough become at least decent D-1 level basketball players (by, say, their Junior years) to field over 300 teams, many of which are at least modestly competitive with the teams at the top.

Just doing some rudimentry math, less than one in 3 schools can possibly bring in a single Top 100 player each year, and I'm guessing the actual number of schools with a single Top 100 recruit is closer to 50. [Granted, these ratings aren't perfect and kids do move up the rankings somewhat based simply on top programs being interested in them.] Nevertheless, basically, hundreds of schools develop kids who hadn't clearly distinguished themselves by age 18 into at least servicable starters by the time they reach 21 years old. I tend to believe that Duke is capable of the same, especially when the raw material is two (seemingly hard working) kids who were Top 50 rated out of high school.

Even as Top 50 recruits last year, neither Thomas nor Zoubek were projected to have immediate impact for a few reasons, including that: big men take longer to develop physically, and both of them were particularly young big men (as in very young for their class). Despite these hinderances, they each managed to raise expectations by demonstrating relatively impressive maturity albeit against lesser competition. When they understandably struggled later in the season, many seem to have already written off their potential, focusing on their exposed weaknesses while ignoring Lance's length, athleticism and passion or Brian's legit 7 foot height, potentially very strong frame, decent shooting touch, and ability to run the floor. Oh yeah, and at all 4 other positions (albeit, while still relatively young) we probably have the deepest team in the country.

Let's just throw some potential lineups out there for fun. Try to find another potential lineup on any other team in the country that might not have some struggles matching up with one or two of Duke's potential lineups. It's Nellieball and were playing to create mismatches!

1 Paulus
2 Scheyer
3 Henderson
4 Singler
5 Thomas
(5 Top 15 recruits, moderately skilled)

1 Smith or Paulus
2 Nelson or Scheyer
3 Henderson
4 McClure
5 Singler
(Nice D and toughness!)

1 Paulus or Smith
2 Scheyer
3 Nelson
4 Henderson
5 Singler
(Who, exactly is Hansblah guarding here?)

1 Paulus
2 Scheyer or Smith
3 Henderson or Nelson
4 Singler
5 King
(3's anyone? Same Hansblah question.)

1 Smith
2 Nelson
3 King
4 Singler
5 Thomas
(This team could rebound and shoot pretty good too.)

I dunno, haven't even tried to place Pocius yet, who some think is one of the best players on the whole team. Sure, I could focus on our lack of a super skilled, athletic and strong pure power forward (which many teams lack) or that we're still pretty young but I'd rather play Devil's Advocate. :0)

Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kramerbr]

Amen

I had the same feelings last year as well when people across the nation were bringing the hammer down on McBob. The guy was only a sophomore.......

I can't wait to see the maturity and growth that this year's team will have after all of last years experience and hard work.

[pless55]

Does Michael Dunigan have any interest in Duke? What's the latest on Darius Miller?:cool:

[watzone]

Duke is not worried about racism and recruiting. Patterson is not racist, imo. Monroe looks at people as people from what I have seen. He comes from a deeply spiritual family and I in no way think the fact that we have some white players will bother him at all. Duke is as diverse as you can get these days. Is their racism on campus? Sure, just like every other school. The original poster of this thread is really reaching IMO. As for recruiting, the other slot is for a big man. Duke knows two of the three players they want and have offered Greg Monroe, long ago and Elliot Williams a few weeks back. Duke will take a long hard look at a few players. Lastly, Duke is in great shape for Monroe. During and interview, he beamed when Duke was mentioned. He is very sincere in his interest pertaining to Duke. LSU may be the main comp, being local. I met his family and they are wonderful people and unlike some recent recruits, they are not press hounds, instead humble despite his ranking. They very rarely peruse the internet. Gregs handle, for a big man is something to behold. I can easily envision a banner seeing him beside Singler.

As for next year ... Duke won the most games in their history, with two, uhhhh, white guys on the front line. That would be Jay Bilas 6-8, Mark Alarie 6-8 and David Henderson 6-5. Ferry, not a power player backed them up as a freshman.

[thebur]

1 Paulus
2 Scheyer
3 Henderson
4 Singler
5 Thomas
(5 Top 15 recruits, moderately skilled)

1 Smith or Paulus
2 Nelson or Scheyer
3 Henderson
4 McClure
5 Singler
(Nice D and toughness!)

1 Paulus or Smith
2 Scheyer
3 Nelson
4 Henderson
5 Singler
(Who, exactly is Hansblah guarding here?)

1 Paulus
2 Scheyer or Smith
3 Henderson or Nelson
4 Singler
5 King
(3's anyone? Same Hansblah question.)

1 Smith
2 Nelson
3 King
4 Singler
5 Thomas
(This team could rebound and shoot pretty good too.)



I mean, unless something I don't know about happened to Zoubs, I think he has to be included in some lineups that would cause a problem for the other team.

How about any of these being problems for our opponents:

Traditional Lineup
1. Paulus
2. Henderson
3. Nelson
4. Thomas
5. Zoubek

Send in the young'uns (aka bombs away)
1. Smith
2. King
3. Scheyer
4. Singler
5. Thomas/Zoubek

Demarcus Moves Up
1. Paulus
2. Scheyer
3. Henderson
4. Nelson
5. Zoubek/Thomas

In 2 of those three lineups, all 5 on the floor would have at least one year experience playing together. I wonder how much K is going to try to get 2 of the freshmen in at the same time to get some growth for years down the road. IMHO, playing together has a great deal to do with success in the postseason, especially with the transient nature of college basketball these days.

[dw0827]

Duke is not worried about racism and recruiting. Patterson is not racist, imo. Monroe looks at people as people from what I have seen. He comes from a deeply spiritual family and I in no way think the fact that we have some white players will bother him at all. Duke is as diverse as you can get these days. Is their racism on campus? Sure, just like every other school. The original poster of this thread is really reaching IMO. As for recruiting, the other slot is for a big man. Duke knows two of the three players they want and have offered Greg Monroe, long ago and Elliot Williams a few weeks back. Duke will take a long hard look at a few players. Lastly, Duke is in great shape for Monroe. During and interview, he beamed when Duke was mentioned. He is very sincere in his interest pertaining to Duke. LSU may be the main comp, being local. I met his family and they are wonderful people and unlike some recent recruits, they are not press hounds, instead humble despite his ranking. They very rarely peruse the internet. Gregs handle, for a big man is something to behold. I can easily envision a banner seeing him beside Singler.

As for next year ... Duke won the most games in their history, with two, uhhhh, white guys on the front line. That would be Jay Bilas 6-8, Mark Alarie 6-8 and David Henderson 6-5. Ferry, not a power player backed them up as a freshman.

Now thats what I'm talkin' about. Great post. Keep this up and I may have to subscribe, Waltzone.

[Classof06]

Given the Andy Katz article, I think it's pretty clear that Zoubek will start. The lineup I have below is the way I would go if it were my team. The disclaimer: After seeing Nolan Smith play a few times, I cannot lie, I'm already in love with the way this kid plays and how I think he can benefit this team.

1 - Smith
2 - Nelson
3 - Henderson
4 - Singler
5 - Zoubek


This team would be about as athletic as Duke has been in almost 4 or 5 years. Between Smith, Nelson, Henderson and Singler, you have ample 3 point shooting, and a 1-4 lineup that can consistently get to the basket and/or foul line. The reason I didn't put Scheyer in is because him and Nelson both shot 36% from 3-point land last year, and Nelson shot 8% better from the field in general, therefore you don't lose much by bringing him off the bench to replace Nelson. Defensively, I take Nelson over Scheyer as well.

Most importantly, this lineup can play multiple styles; this personnel is easily athletic enough to defend in the halfcourt and deny dribble penetration, a huge problem last year. This team can also fastbreak, as you have 4 kids that can finish in the open court (jury still out on Zoubek); if need be, this team can run. However, if the game must be won in the half court, then offensively, you have kids that can consistently create in the halfcourt, another component which was critically missing at times last year. Not to mention, bringing Paulus, Scheyer, and Thomas off the bench is an unbelievable luxury. Below are a few more of the many viable lineups.


Paulus
Nelson
Scheyer
Singler
Zoubek

Paulus
Nelson
Henderson
Singler
Thomas

Paulus
Nelson
Henderson
Singler
Thomas

[ikiru36]

I should have included Zoubs more in the few lineups I mentioned, fo' sure.

But my point, as y'all so well followed upon, is that even without Patterson, right now, Duke has multiple interesting potential lineups available. Lineups which most every other team and coach would love to have available and which can at least be imagined to create all sorts of matchup difficulties.

I think that I was de-emphasizing Zoubs since people were dissing on him a bit, and trying to show that even if he didn't progress (as I feel he is likely to-let's say, to Senior Eric Meek territory), Duke'll still be a tough out.

Go Zoubs!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!

[Patrick Yates]

Class,

I completely agree with your starting 5. By ACC play, and certainly by the NCAAs, we would be a very capable and dangerous team, probably in the 3-4 range, with the No. 1 Seed in our bracket crying like a girl about having Duke in their bracket. We would be one of the true sleeper teams in the nation.

Unfortunately, you are dead wrong. Paulus will start come heck or high water. If he is capable of standing upright under his own power, he will start and play the lion share of minutes at PG. Whether or not any of us agree, disagree, whatever, it is a moot point.

I have made so secret that I am not enamored of his abilities. I do not question his heart, or his scoring ability to a lesser extent, but I have questions about his ability to run the PG for Duke.

Please do not debate me on this posters. I may be right, I may be wrong. You cannot convince me, and I cannot convince you.

Regardless, the PG is perhaps the most locked down position on our team. KS is right behind him, but I truly believe that every other position (even KS to a small extent) is up for grabs. K likes Paulus, so Paulus will play. I have accepted it and moved on. We all need to. NS will not play much at PG, if at all. C'est La Vie.

Watzone. Great analysis. You always have good insights. No one has allayed my initial concern.

What if we do not get GM. As great as Duke is, we have to look at it from the prospective of a potential 1 and Done player.

In GM's case, there would be instant stardom and BMOC waiting at LSU, where he would be viewed as the next coming of Shaq. He would be the go to player at LSU from the get go.

Same at KY. PP will be good, but GM would be a star from the get go. I believe that these two schools are our main comp.

After reading Katz's article, I agree with him. At FL, and Duke, PP would have to fight for minutes. Yes, he would probably start and be a key player. At KY, he will be the only real show in the post. That may not lead to a slew of wins, but enough in a weakened SEC. KY, especially under a new coach, will be at the center of media interest for the next few years.

For GM, Duke represents more of a challenge. Yes, he is good enough to play right away. But, if KS is at or near the level we expect, and we suffer no attrition, GM would be a role player his frosh year. Most of our points would come from KS, GP (again deal with it and move on), GH, JS, and even TK. LT and BZ would play some, no matter how good GM is.

At LSU, and KY, he plays 30-35 mpg, and has the green light to shoot whenever. No one bats an eye if he shoots it 12-20 times a game. At Duke, given the players we have now, this board would erupt if a frosh took 15 shots (unless he were hitting 65%, and getting 10 rpg a game), no matter how good he was. There is too much talent, talent that will know the system, when he arrives, for this to even occur. There is no way he gets 10+ shot per game at Duke, barring massive attrition (KS and GH) or players busting out (BZ or LT, or both)

GM is a high lottery selection whenever he comes out. Realistically, he is going to spend his frosh year trying to max out a shoe deal and other endorsements.

And don't howl and moan about being on a winning team. Greg Oden went to the NC, and he will probably get less in endorsements than Durant, who is reportedly holding a $40M offer from Nike in his hands, when Durant was on a team that did not seriously contend for conference honors, and washed out in the 2nd roung of the NCAAs.

At LSU, he would have a high profile as a savior at a school that was devastated by the worst national disaster since 9-11. He would be held up as a beacon of hope for the school, representative of all that is good and right with America, yada yada.

Or, he can go to a school that is the single most hated entity in the state where it is located (seriously, some NC folks hate Duke worse than Al-Quada). A school that is quickly becoming a punching bag for the national media. Local (and national, see Doyell, Greg) media will portray Duke as the evil empire here.

Now, for a kid who needs 2-3 years to max out his potential, a la KS, Duke is a perfect fit. Plenty of national exposure, chance to play against top flight comp, etc.

Not so much for a 1 and done trying to max out a 1 year college career.

So, Wat, I believe you when you say the kid is a great kid and likes Duke. However, not choosing Duke would be a very rational decision from a business POV. I would not blame him, one way or the other.

He is one of the 2-6 players in HS who has all the options in the world open to him. I want to know if Duke is pursuing someone else. GM is no done deal. He can go anywhere. His childhood preference may take a back seat to the potential of millions of dollars in the offing. There are too many what ifs, and reasons not to choose Duke for GM. I still have heard of nothing that indicates Duke is really pursuing another posts, which we will have to have this year.

Patrick Yates

[ScreechTDX]

I see your point Patrcik Yates. However, i don't think that Duke would be a bad decision any way you look at it.

[coot]

Greg Paulas will be Duke's starting point guard for the 2007-08 season, unless he has an injury or something like that. Please don't forget that he was the best player on Duke's team for the second half of this season and he still had foot problems. The kid is really good, not perfect, but good.

If Duke would have kept McBob or gotten PP, we'd be talking final four run. I think Zoub will do better that expected, but do agree he is two seasons away from top caliber.

Main point here is that GP will not be replaced as starting point guard, although when lineups shift (GP resting or GP at shoot guard) momentarily,we will have more options with all of the wings we have now.

coot

[dwater]

Yates, there isn't a school in the NCAA's that has the ability to get a player more exposure than DUKE. He is not lock, for sure, but we are in good position with him. And just b/c you are not aware of who the staff is recruiting doesn't mean that they don't have their eyes on other players. :rolleyes:

[Patrick Yates]

I do not care if the coaches tatoo their targets on their own foreheads.

My concern is that as I read the recruiting lists, none of the other posts are seriously considering Duke. That worries me. It is hard to get a kid who is not considering you.

The last time we got in late on a kid was PP. It went less well than we anticipated. With regards to LT, I firmly believe that if any of the other talented kids in NJ had agreed, they would all have been at Rutgers. Duke works best when K ids the kid early, showers him with love, and gets the committ prior to or very early in a Sr.'s year. Only KS waited until school started, but everyone was saying he was in the bus long before he officially announced.

As for GP being our best player down the stretch? You are right. He was the leading scorer on a team that needed a distributor. The last half of the season we looked aweful. Saying he was the best was like saying he was the least ugliest person at an ugly person convention. It is damning with faint praise.

He scored fine, which I acknowledged. Call me when he is running the team, which means setting the others up. But, again, as I said, GP is the point. I am not thrilled with it, but I have accepted it and moved on. I did ask that no one debate me on this, and I gave my reasons why.

If GP is the best player on the team for any extended stretch next season, we should be thrilled with a first round flameout in the NCAAs.

Patrick Yates

[JustDuke]

White Boys can Ball!

[kramerbr]

I was looking over the Rivals150 list for 2008. It has a player by the name of Terrence Jennings that hales from Durham N.C (ranked 9th). However, among his 7 schools of interest there is neither Duke or UNC? How could it be that the "9th best" recruit for next year is not being pursued by an in state school?

[MChambers]

I was looking over the Rivals150 list for 2008. It has a player by the name of Terrence Jennings that hales from Durham N.C (ranked 9th). However, among his 7 schools of interest there is neither Duke or UNC? How could it be that the "9th best" recruit for next year is not being pursued by an in state school?

With any recruit, we need to consider academics. Not saying that Jennings doesn't have a good academic record, but it's a possibility. [insert UNC academics joke here]

[VaDukie]

I was looking over the Rivals150 list for 2008. It has a player by the name of Terrence Jennings that hales from Durham N.C (ranked 9th). However, among his 7 schools of interest there is neither Duke or UNC? How could it be that the "9th best" recruit for next year is not being pursued by an in state school?

It's not unprecedented. There was a pretty good kid who played in Durham in 97 that went by the name of McGrady that I'm pretty sure we never looked at, or am I wrong?

[kramerbr]

Academics...well that would explain why UNC isn't interested...:D

[jimsumner]

Jennings isn't from Durham. He's from Sacramento. Duke has never recruited a player from Mount Zion and I think the chance that this changes in the near future is pert near zero.

[duketaylor]

Hi Jim, should you hear anything would you please call or e-mail me about my possible relocation;) Thanks, CT