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View Full Version : MBB: Duke vs. Miami Pre-Game and In-Game Thread



sagegrouse
03-12-2010, 04:57 PM
Anybody feeling guilty that our two scheduled ACC-T games are against the #9 and #12 seeds, both missing their best player? You over there. Anyone else? Nope. So it's 47-1 against feeling guilty.

Miami beat VT despite having 18 TOs (vs. 8 for VT). The Canes outrebounded the Hokies by 42-29. The immense Reggie Johnson followed up a 22-point game with 12 RBs. Scott and Jones provided the firepower with 17 and 14 pts.

Questions to get started:

1. Any guesses as to how Jon will shoot against the Canes and for the remainder of the tourney? Is there a chance we can be spared Len Elmore's idiotic commentary about tired legs (in the first two minutes of the game)?

2. How does Duke control the Canes' jitterbug guards? The problem against the Hoos was that a number of our 3's clanged off the rim and led to easy fast breaks.

3. Who steps up among the bigs? Today, all played about the same minutes, and both Miles and Mason made good contributions.

4. Re the DFL Canes, who demolished Wake and edged out VT: "Who are those guys?" asked Butch Cassidy.

sagegrouse

OldPhiKap
03-12-2010, 05:04 PM
The Miami and UVa efforts show that sometimes it is hard to play against someone who has already gotten a win under their belt and are over the initial tightness of the tourney. But I think the fatigue starts to catch up to Miami tomorrow.

Billy Dat
03-12-2010, 05:10 PM
Of Miami's 4 ACC wins prior to this tournament, 2 were against Wake and VT, so maybe there was a little extra confidence.

They certainly have the potential to give us all kinds of problems if they are playing loose and confident. They rebound well which potentially negates on our our advantages, they play good D, and they have a lot of quickness on the perimeter.

The game will, hopefully, be more about us then them. I think it's good that we got such a scare down in Miami last month because we won't be likely to take them for granted. If we can build a 5-10 point lead by the half, hopefully their fatigue will kick in.

CameronDuke
03-12-2010, 05:16 PM
One thing is for sure: I feel more confident about our chances of reaching the ACC Championship game on Sunday by playing Miami on Saturday that I would have felt if we were playing Virginia Tech on Saturday.

I think Duke comes out on fire and starts knocking down some open 3s. We struggled a bit down in Miami earlier this season, getting down by double digits early. I think we get out to a quick lead and nail some jumpers and our defense proves too much for a Miami team playing their third game in three days. If we can come out even on the boards with them and our big three are hitting for a better percentge of made shots tomorrow than they did today, I see Duke having great chances of advancing. Hats of to the 'Canes, though. They steamrolled Wake and beat a good Hokie team today.

Should be an interesting day tomorrow!

Let's Go Duke.

Devil in the Blue Dress
03-12-2010, 05:19 PM
Since you guys are covering the technical side of tomorrow's anticipated game, I'm going to comment on a different aspect of Miami's game plan: those uniforms worn today. The colors have to be some of the most depressing Nike has available. I expect some bad karma to be stirred up by this unseemly choice. ;)

Kedsy
03-12-2010, 05:22 PM
Is there a chance we can be spared Len Elmore's idiotic commentary about tired legs (in the first two minutes of the game)?

In the first two minutes after a six day rest, no less.

Kedsy
03-12-2010, 05:24 PM
Since you guys are covering the technical side of tomorrow's anticipated game, I'm going to comment on a different aspect of Miami's game plan: those uniforms worn today. The colors have to be some of the most depressing Nike has available. I expect some bad karma to be stirred up by this unseemly choice. ;)

Except Durand Scott wore bright orange shoes while all the other players wore black. It was like a spotlight was following him everywhere on the court.

Kedsy
03-12-2010, 05:28 PM
I think it will be a tough game. Durand Scott looked close to unstoppable today, and Reggie Johnson has been a beast. If it's Miami's individual performances against our team performance, I think we win by low double digits. If we start going mano y mano (or is it mana a mano?) against them and try to match them as individuals, it goes down to the wire.

JohnGalt
03-12-2010, 05:52 PM
In the first two minutes after a six day rest, no less.

At the 5 minute mark, following the 5th time he mentioned Jon's tired legs...he was given the mute button...

Regardless, the tournaments - whether conference or national - are all about hot teams. If this can be called a peak, the Canes are peaking at the correct time. IMO, Duke has too much mental toughness for a loss though...they'll win by 12.

Should they lose, the committee is going to have one hell of a time seeding the NCAAs...

bjornolf
03-12-2010, 06:17 PM
What time is the game tomorrow?

superdave
03-12-2010, 06:20 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300482390

Here's the link from our win vs. Miami earlier this year. We were down 12 at the half. Won 81-74.

RoyalBlue08
03-12-2010, 06:22 PM
In the first two minutes after a six day rest, no less.

The funny part about this tired legs thing is when watching the Big East tournament the announcers were trying to convince me that the teams playing their third game in three days had an advantage over the "double bye" teams. I guess legs only get tired in the South....

TNDukeFan
03-12-2010, 06:25 PM
what time is the game tomorrow?

1:30 et, espn

Wildling
03-12-2010, 06:42 PM
I'm just glad Raycom sports has taken over the games. I laugh when you guys complain about Elmore on ESPN. When he calls Duke games I cringe. Almost as bad as when Billy Packer called a few Duke games in his day.

Almost...........

ElSid
03-12-2010, 06:44 PM
In the first two minutes after a six day rest, no less.

this drove me crazy. len elmore is bad at hiding his dislike of duke. also, media personnel generally are like penguins only good at regurgitating some stink fish comment they picked up somewhere else in the putrid ocean of (anti-duke) basketball commentary.

jon has shot well from 3, today aside. which to me means he has fresh legs. his shooting percentage is damaged by driving into the lane and remembering he can't jump very high and getting forced into a terrible circus shot or a rejection. today he missed a couple gimmes in the lane too. but he got separation and made it into the lane and was in great position to score...rimmed out.

who is worse than len elmore? mike patrick? who else? hate to say it but dickie v is almost unlistenable for me anymore.

ElSid
03-12-2010, 06:50 PM
At the 5 minute mark, following the 5th time he mentioned Jon's tired legs...he was given the mute button...

Regardless, the tournaments - whether conference or national - are all about hot teams. If this can be called a peak, the Canes are peaking at the correct time. IMO, Duke has too much mental toughness for a loss though...they'll win by 12.

Should they lose, the committee is going to have one hell of a time seeding the NCAAs...

I think Michigan almost beating Ohio State has to look suspect to the committee, so I'm guessing OSU hurt their chances of sneaking in. West Virginia is the most likely to sneak in there. Depends on how they do tonight.

I don't care, particularly. I just don't really want to see G'town again, Villanova, Baylor, UTEP, Wofford (for real) in my bracket.

I think Duke wins this game. I think today counts as a warm up. Everyone was a bit rusty out of the gate, except Nolan, thanks god.

SharkD
03-12-2010, 07:09 PM
Everyone was a bit rusty out of the gate, except Nolan, thanks god.

Two things popped into my mind, while watching the first half vs. UVA:

the Blue Devils, like the other top 3 teams, hadn't had a full-practice on the court at Greensboro, due to the 1st-day bye, and
collapsible basketball goals, particularly the long-arm style in use in Greensboro, can produce funny bounces off the rim

DukieInBrasil
03-12-2010, 07:56 PM
I think it will be a tough game. Durand Scott looked close to unstoppable today, and Reggie Johnson has been a beast. If it's Miami's individual performances against our team performance, I think we win by low double digits. If we start going mano y mano (or is it mana a mano?) against them and try to match them as individuals, it goes down to the wire.

mano a mano. That means "hand to hand", mano y mano = "hand and hand", subtle but important difference.

We could win big if we can shoot the ball better. We'll probably play really tough D, seems we do that regardless of who we play. Shooting 30% in the 1st half will make things tough for us.

Kedsy
03-12-2010, 08:01 PM
mano a mano. That means "hand to hand", mano y mano = "hand and hand", subtle but important difference.

We could win big if we can shoot the ball better. We'll probably play really tough D, seems we do that regardless of who we play. Shooting 30% in the 1st half will make things tough for us.

I knew those were the literal meanings, but you see "mano y mano" so much I figured maybe it was an idiom.

sagegrouse
03-13-2010, 08:52 AM
What's your take? How about these?

1. Quick start on offense from the usual suspects, especially Jon. Yeah, I know. I really like to get ahead early.

2. Continued defensive intensity. Absolutely critical, in that Miami is a streaky team that can put up points.

3. Some offense from the big guys. Would help in getting big ol' Reggie Johnson in foul trouble or panting to catch his breath.

4. Surely, someone else has better ideas than these.

It probably won't happen, but wouldn't it be great if midway through the first half, Miami is thinking how great it was to win two games at the ACC's and how great it is to be in Florida during March?

sagegrouse

weezie
03-13-2010, 09:27 AM
Except Durand Scott wore bright orange shoes while all the other players wore black. It was like a spotlight was following him everywhere on the court.

Kedsy is right, Scott is lightning. He's got a head fake that will really keep Nolan alert.
On another thread, there was chastisement of the Duke fans in the arena to step it up. I think we're doing fine! Plenty of the people in Gboro have never seen Duke in Cameron. It's been great learning of all the fans out there who DON'T hate Duke, even if they live in NC. So, if they don't seem quite "with" all the cheering, it's not because of apathy.
The whole day was kind of blah excitement-wise. Only the "wolf"--"pack" cheer at the end of the night (2nd half even) got the crowd going.

Let's Go Devils!!!

weezie
03-13-2010, 09:29 AM
collapsible basketball goals, particularly the long-arm style in use in Greensboro, can produce funny bounces off the rim
[/LIST]

Spot on.

superdave
03-13-2010, 09:48 AM
Spot on.

We'll see those goals the rest of the way.

NSDukeFan
03-13-2010, 11:24 AM
I just hope Jon's legs continue to get less tired as the game goes on. I think we will several good shooting performances from Jon before the year is out, but in no way do I believe that if he has an off night (or if any one of our big 3 does) that we still don't have a great chance to win if we continue to rebound well and defend well.

mehmattski
03-13-2010, 11:29 AM
I will be wearing my 3-D glasses, just in case Duke comes out "flat."

YourLandlord
03-13-2010, 11:29 AM
Duke is 10.5 pt favorites.

Couldn't pull the trigger on it...thats a lot of points esp. in this godforsaken arena.

riverside6
03-13-2010, 01:24 PM
live tempo-based stats for the game here...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=6663

Starters are posted

Cameron
03-13-2010, 01:32 PM
We have to listen to the drone of Dan Shulman AGAIN?

Where is Mike Patrick? He may make more mistakes than Tiger Woods nowadays, but he IS the voice of the ACC Tournament.

DukeGirl4ever
03-13-2010, 01:48 PM
I think this is a game where the Plumlee's can really excel. With that 2-3 zone, the foul line/high post will be open and I think they are excellent passers (compared to LT and Zoubs) our of that set, and so is Kyle. I think this will be the key in the game....

Tucknut
03-13-2010, 02:28 PM
WOW. I thought the officiating in a tournament game could never be this bad.

devildownunder
03-13-2010, 02:31 PM
We have to listen to the drone of Dan Shulman AGAIN?

Where is Mike Patrick? He may make more mistakes than Tiger Woods nowadays, but he IS the voice of the ACC Tournament.

I like Shulman a lot.

moonpie23
03-13-2010, 02:32 PM
ugh....ugly stretch letting them get back into it...adn then the nba 3 at the buzzer..


2nd half needs to be much better....miami has confidence...

go duke..

Son of Mojo
03-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Well, guess we'll use the pre-game as an in-game thread as well. Letting a 12 pt. lead disappear against this bunch is bad. Coach has a reason to be hot right now--there's some baaaaaaaaaaad officiating on the court. Regardless, the guys need to get past that and play better. No good reason to be behind against this team at half for a second time. Let's hope we come out swinging like the previous Miami game.

Starter
03-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Dismiss this all you'd like, but Scheyer looks like he's at mile 24 of 26. I don't mean his legs, I mean general fatigue. I simply can't ignore it or gloss over it. He has the will but not the physical ability to make plays. If he passes any of your eye tests, well... he probably shouldn't.

He has to do something in the second half...

HB TAYLOR
03-13-2010, 02:34 PM
Why do we refuse to feed the post? Ive seen Brian, Lance, and Mason screaming for the ball several trips down the court.

BattierBattalion
03-13-2010, 02:36 PM
Miami player's will be using chainsaws to lop off appendages before they get called for a foul.

BlueHeaven
03-13-2010, 02:37 PM
Can someone tell me what the Technical was for...We're blacked out on ESPN in south Florida and it's on a local channel with no HD and I can't see a darn thing. Maybe it's the cold medicine. Thanks.

DukeGirl4ever
03-13-2010, 02:38 PM
Why do we refuse to feed the post? Ive seen Brian, Lance, and Mason screaming for the ball several trips down the court.

Because Brian and Lance aren't going to make a great move 90% of time! Get it to Kyle and Mason, maybe....but they need to get the ball in a position where they can score like the Kyle alley-oop pass!

arnie
03-13-2010, 02:38 PM
Well, guess we'll use the pre-game as an in-game thread as well. Letting a 12 pt. lead disappear against this bunch is bad. Coach has a reason to be hot right now--there's some baaaaaaaaaaad officiating on the court. Regardless, the guys need to get past that and play better. No good reason to be behind against this team at half for a second time. Let's hope we come out swinging like the previous Miami game.

I rarely think officiating has anything to do with outcomes, but this may have been the worst. Miami over the back numerous times, numerous significant bumps and nothing. Duke taps Miami on a bound and its called. Can see K get tossed if it continues. Agree with previous poster, Scheyer is very fatigued.

gumbomoop
03-13-2010, 02:40 PM
Still pretty frustrating watching LT and Z bring ball down to waist/knee, thus messing up what should be automatic 2. Aarrrggghhhh! Ditto on MP1's bad hands. In tight game, these mess-ups make it tough.

Ticky foul, JS's first; but given that, his 2d foul was a foolish block try on his part. I don't assume he's mentally tired, but that was an atypical mistake.

Miami's got the mo, esp with comeback. This looks to be a fierce 2d half.

Lulu
03-13-2010, 02:41 PM
I'm tired of any whisper about officiated here being considered terping. This is flat-out awful, and I'm just registering my vote now, so that win or lose, no one here can say it wouldn't have been said if we won. The officials cannot make up their minds as to what constitutes a foul, and worse than that, it has NOT been called equally bad for both teams. It's more like they can only see the white jerseys and anyone in black is just invisible. These touch fouls against our guys, particularly against the guards but for our bigs as well, look like nothing compared to how our guards are getting hammered and bumped on drives with no calls. Phantom rebound calls, though I will give one of those Miami.

Can anyone tell what K said to earn the technical? You can see him sitting right there on the bench when they whistled him, and I can see his mouth moving, but can't make it out. You would have thought they called it on his daughter the way she reacted (I know they didn't).

Saratoga2
03-13-2010, 02:42 PM
Their zone is effective since our outside shooting remains weak. Our bigs missed chippies inside and we were in foul trouble, so couldn't guard effectively. Too many turnovers, some probably caused by bumps on Smith.

grossbus
03-13-2010, 02:43 PM
strange zebra work.

we gotta get through it. and shoot better.

DukeGirl4ever
03-13-2010, 02:43 PM
I agree with the officiating calls....Nolan was BODY CHECKED TWICE and they called him for a walk/double dribble. SERIOUSLY?

I think K's technical may have been a good thing if we could have gone on a run...

It's sad when Miami only has 6 fouls in the first half and the 6th was with 42 seconds left in the half.

Cockabeau
03-13-2010, 02:44 PM
These refs are absolutely killing us!!!!!!!


Sick of it!

grossbus
03-13-2010, 02:46 PM
"Because Brian and Lance aren't going to make a great move 90% of time!"

lance has a hard time making a normal play around the rim. he is unbelievably slow to get off his feet. takes a really deep knee flex.

Eternal Outlaw
03-13-2010, 02:49 PM
Looks like Singler's back may be open for business again. He's inviting everyone to climb on.

CBDUKE
03-13-2010, 02:50 PM
Singler is a "gamer".

DukeGirl4ever
03-13-2010, 02:50 PM
"Because Brian and Lance aren't going to make a great move 90% of time!"

lance has a hard time making a normal play around the rim. he is unbelievably slow to get off his feet. takes a really deep knee flex.

Hence the reason why we should not be looking to run plays for him in the low post as suggested! He is good at the high post, wide open to hit a jump shot and to pass out of the zone...if he gives us that, I'm happy!

Devil Lab
03-13-2010, 02:52 PM
Wow..... refs are clearly impacting this game but it looks like Kyle has decided to carry us through that.

Son of Mojo
03-13-2010, 03:03 PM
BIG 3 Jon!!

Cockabeau
03-13-2010, 03:03 PM
Haith has the nerve to complain about ONE call that didn't go his way

PSurprise
03-13-2010, 03:13 PM
Mason!! Denial. Ain't just another river in Africa

Son of Mojo
03-13-2010, 03:23 PM
Exactly how many steps did Johnson have on that dunk......?

Kfanarmy
03-13-2010, 03:28 PM
can't believe they started that with 7.5 minutes left in the game...unbelievable

Lulu
03-13-2010, 03:28 PM
went to stall ball way too early in this one. had the momentum. no reason for this game to be in danger

devildownunder
03-13-2010, 03:28 PM
And here we go, into our passive "let's abandon what got us the lead and turn our already-challenged offense into a 10-second wind-down drill and let the other team back into the game" spread again.

How anyone can defend this repulsive "strategy" is beyond me.

Eternal Outlaw
03-13-2010, 03:30 PM
went to stall ball way too early in this one. had the momentum. no reason for this game to be in danger

3 pt defense also let down for a stretch and they hit 3 of them.

Kfanarmy
03-13-2010, 03:30 PM
modern version of four corners crap bball.

bluesin
03-13-2010, 03:30 PM
And here we go, into our passive "let's abandon what got us the lead and turn our already-challenged offense into a 10-second wind-down drill and let the other team back into the game" spread again.

How anyone can defend this repulsive "strategy" is beyond me.

I dunno, maybe they look at results at the end of the game over the last dozen or so years. At least that's what I do when I defend it.

slower
03-13-2010, 03:31 PM
no reason for this game to be in danger

Unfortunately, it seems that almost all of our games are going to be in danger, if recent results are any indication. Sorry, this does not look like a team worthy of a #1 seed. Not by a long shot.

Merlindevildog91
03-13-2010, 03:34 PM
I don't get it either. We give up momentum and unless we score, it's a boost for Miami.

Gminski just pointed out on the Raycom broadcast that our drought began when we let the air out of the basketball.

Son of Mojo
03-13-2010, 03:34 PM
3 shot clock violations?!? C'mon!!! I don't care if it's now end of game (which we shouldn't have been sitting on the ball like we have), if a shot presents itself take it!!

Lulu
03-13-2010, 03:35 PM
stall ball was also a huge mistake in this one. I'm registering that vote now before this game ends and while we still have the lead.

dairedevil
03-13-2010, 03:35 PM
And here we go, into our passive "let's abandon what got us the lead and turn our already-challenged offense into a 10-second wind-down drill and let the other team back into the game" spread again.

How anyone can defend this repulsive "strategy" is beyond me.

Over the years I have been frustrated as anyone with the stall ball strategy- and there are games that have been way too close, or maybe even lost because of it. Overall, I think that Duke has run it more effectively this season, maybe because we've had some rebounders to suck in a missed shot. Don't know how it will play out today, though. Wish they could be increase the lead, now!

devildownunder
03-13-2010, 03:36 PM
I dunno, maybe they look at results at the end of the game over the last dozen or so years. At least that's what I do when I defend it.

Being up by a large margin, blowing a lead and then hanging on to win is not evidence of success. It's like saying a pilot did a good job if unnecessarily flew into a storm but managed to land the plane anyway.

Before we started this nonsense, we finished teams off. Now we do this silliness, which practically guarantees the opposition will have a chance to win the game, by abandoning what's working and bringing our offensive efficiency way down.

Go on and keep defending it. You will, no matter what anyway. You'll try to defend it in this game, even though it went so poorly this time K actually called it off before it cost us another ballgame.

Eternal Outlaw
03-13-2010, 03:36 PM
Unfortunately, it seems that almost all of our games are going to be in danger, if recent results are any indication. Sorry, this does not look like a team worthy of a #1 seed. Not by a long shot.

Come on, all the teams fighting for the last 1 seed are having tight games in their conference tournies. Ohio State is in their second one down to the wire and they and WVU both could have lost in their first game.

Cameron
03-13-2010, 03:37 PM
And here we go, into our passive "let's abandon what got us the lead and turn our already-challenged offense into a 10-second wind-down drill and let the other team back into the game" spread again.
How anyone can defend this repulsive "strategy" is beyond me.


There is no defending it. It sucks.

The end.

devildownunder
03-13-2010, 03:39 PM
3 shot clock violations?!? C'mon!!! I don't care if it's now end of game (which we shouldn't have been sitting on the ball like we have), if a shot presents itself take it!!

Welcome to stall ball. Bluesin and others think it's a good idea.

All of this is an overreaction to the Kentucky game from 98. The stupid thing about it is, in 2002 against Indiana, in almost the exact same circumstances as the Kentucky game, we went to the stall and lost. I just wish that had led to a corrective overreaction in the other direction. No such luck.

devildownunder
03-13-2010, 03:40 PM
I don't get it either. We give up momentum and unless we score, it's a boost for Miami.

Gminski just pointed out on the Raycom broadcast that our drought began when we let the air out of the basketball.

Our drought ALWAYS begins when we let the air out of the basketball. The only year we've been any good at this at all was Duhon's senior year in 2004, and even then it cost us the ACC championship game against the twerps.

AlaskanAssassin
03-13-2010, 03:40 PM
One thing we need to work on for sure is our free throws, we've been struggling bad.

slower
03-13-2010, 03:42 PM
Come on, all the teams fighting for the last 1 seed are having tight games in their conference tournies. Ohio State is in their second one down to the wire and they and WVU both could have lost in their first game.

Perhaps we've arrived at true parity in college ball (for this year, at least). But it scares me that Duke DOESN'T scare anybody else. And it just seems like a #1 seed SHOULD instill fear in their opponent. Aren't we kind of running out of excuses/rationalizations for these crappy performances?

buddy
03-13-2010, 03:43 PM
Glad to see the officiating maintained its "quality" to the end.

DukeGirl4ever
03-13-2010, 03:43 PM
One thing we need to work on for sure is our free throws, we've been struggling bad.

HUH? Am I watching the same game? We are hitting them down the stretch when it counts....early on Jon and Nolan missed a few but we've knocked 'em down at the end!

KyDevilinIL
03-13-2010, 03:44 PM
There is very little defense of stallball anymore. Especially with this team, which relies on momentum almost entirely on offense, because we can't create much other than long jumpers. Keep running the offense, don't stop playing the game. Such a simple concept. I really think K is overthinking and being dangerously stubborn in this regard.

Meanwhile, our offense has looked awful in this tournament. I know we scored 70-odd points today, but it was a mess.

DukeCO2009
03-13-2010, 03:45 PM
Perhaps we've arrived at true parity in college ball (for this year, at least). But it scares me that Duke DOESN'T scare anybody else. And it just seems like a #1 seed SHOULD instill fear in their opponent. Aren't we kind of running out of excuses/rationalizations for these crappy performances?

People don't fear us because we don't blow teams away like we're capable of doing. Less fear means teams play harder against us, which leads to closer games, which leads to even less fear. It's circular. We need to stop letting the air out of the ball.

devildownunder
03-13-2010, 03:45 PM
I'm cheering for NC State. It would be nice to avenge the ugliest loss of the season.