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View Full Version : Duke 57, Virginia 46 Post-Game Thread



Jumbo
03-12-2010, 02:03 PM
Enjoy your afternoon's discussion!

grossbus
03-12-2010, 02:04 PM
dare i say? survive and advance. better 2nd half, much better.

superdave
03-12-2010, 02:06 PM
Winner of Miami and VPI up next.

That was ugly - partuclarly the poor shooting - but we executed well down the stretch. I suspect we lose if this is th best we play all weekend. I also suspect we step it up a notch!

whereinthehellami
03-12-2010, 02:07 PM
That was a good win for Duke. They didn't look sharp but I expect them to look much better in their next game against the Hokies.

Duke was tough when it counted.

cruxer
03-12-2010, 02:07 PM
This game demonstrates the difference coaching can make. We struggled a bit on the offensive end of the court, especially during the first half. I'd give a lot of credit to an undermanned Hoos team and a good game plan by Tony Bennett. What kind of success would he have with the talent that Wake or GaTech has?

I love the fact that this Duke team perseveres through that kind of adversity and pressure and can still pull it out. The theme for the rest of the year is survive and advance.

-c

CBDUKE
03-12-2010, 02:07 PM
A gritty, dig down deep win. Survive and advance.

KyDevilinIL
03-12-2010, 02:07 PM
Extremely poor offensive performance, decent defense, fortunate we were playing a weak opponent.

But it's a win. Tomorrow's a new day.

gwwilburn
03-12-2010, 02:08 PM
A little less nerve-wracking than 2009's first round game. Or 2006's. I believe we won the tournament in both those years.

JaMarcus Russell
03-12-2010, 02:09 PM
Second half was much better, and the team actually shot pretty well outside of Scheyer. They made some very good defensive adjustments and limited UVA to only 19 second half points.

It wasn't a very impressive win, but hopefully the first half brought the team back to life. Miami-VT should be an interesting game.

wilko
03-12-2010, 02:10 PM
I will give credit where it is due.

Bennette had those dudes ready to go - they fought, they scrapped and they competed HARD. We had an ugly game, but UVa had something to do with that.

Can you imagine if Bennette were HC for WF or GT?
Completely different conference results, I'd wager.

Dukeford
03-12-2010, 02:10 PM
....keep his mouthpiece in his mouth??

BigZ
03-12-2010, 02:11 PM
Oh My, Evan Turner made about a 40 footer at the buzzer to help Ohio State escape, that would have been one more step to Duke getting a number 1.

mgtr
03-12-2010, 02:11 PM
Well, if Duke needed a little fear put into them, it worked. As others have said, a win is a win -- even an ugly win such as this. Better an ugly win than a pretty loss. Next play!:)

JohnGalt
03-12-2010, 02:15 PM
I love the fact that this Duke team perseveres through that kind of adversity and pressure and can still pull it out. The theme for the rest of the year is survive and advance.

-c

I'd love to agree with you, but this was against a pretty terrible Virginia team without their best player. The first round of the ACC tournament should not be a survive and advance kind of game. I'll cross my fingers Duke's road woes haven't returned...

CameronDuke
03-12-2010, 02:16 PM
Ugly offensive performance, above average defensive performance, extremely fortunate we were playing a UVA team without Landesberg, their leading scorer. Singler saved our tournament with his 12 point spurt in the second half, and Scheyer played like a Senior when it mattered, though the majority of his play left much to be desired for. We need more contributions from Zoubek, Thomas, and both Plumlees if we want to beat Virginia Tech or Miami tomorrow. I'll take it though, a win is a win. Syracuse, Villanova, and possibly Kentucky today don't know what a conference tournament victory feels like this season!

Let's Go Duke.

Saratoga2
03-12-2010, 02:16 PM
Less of the physical seemed to be called in this game as for instance Zoubek and Singler were absolutely mugged without a call. It was that way in both directions with a few exceptions. When the game is allowed to be played that way, we need to make open shots and free throws, something that we didn't start out doing.

Scheyer seemed a step slow today and his shooting was really off, perhaps the worst display of airballs and missed opportunities for him, plus he got picked by the small but speedy guards for Virginia. It just looked like he was dead tired out there. At least in the end he was able to show some of what makes him a really great college player.

Singler and Smith did an excellent job and Zoubek when able to be in the game in the second half showed his value, altering shots and getting rebounds.

We will need a much better effort going forward to win against the better teams. It is a win and the idea is to win and advance, so the team is on track, just a little more difficult than imagined.

JaMarcus Russell
03-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Are you watching everyone else during tournament week? All of the big names are struggling: the top Big East teams are out, OSU needed a circus shot to beat a bad Michigan team, Kansas was held in check by Texas Tech like we were by the Cavs, and even Kentucky is down at halftime.

Cockabeau
03-12-2010, 02:19 PM
Jon Scheyer looks really stiff out there....

back injury?

ChicagoCrazy84
03-12-2010, 02:20 PM
I'd love to agree with you, but this was against a pretty terrible Virginia team without their best player. The first round of the ACC tournament should not be a survive and advance kind of game. I'll cross my fingers Duke's road woes haven't returned...


If anything, it was a home game for us being in Greensboro. It was pretty ugly, but we're allowed to play poorly in a game like that if you ask me. Coach K was not pleased and I am sure the whole team is not pleased with their performance. It was a let down after our demolishing of UNC almost a week ago, but it's good that we are going right back at it tomorrow.

1999ballboy
03-12-2010, 02:20 PM
I don't really know how we held them to 46 points- our defense wasn't noticeably better than usual, and at times we even looked sluggish getting back. Scheyer played great D on Zeglinski, but on offense Scheyer was just off. He had a couple of nice plays in the final 7 or 8 minutes though, when the team as a whole was playing much better. Singler really came on and played very well in the second half. Nolan still spent more time with the ball in his hands than I like to see, but he made some good buckets when no one else was. And I was even pretty pleased with the Plumlees' play. The +/- stats won't reflect that because they were in for Zoubek during UVA's first half run, but Singler's subsequent foul trouble was probably a bigger reason for our drought. Dawkins wasn't really a factor at all. Obviously I'd like to see our offense be more productive next game, but it's also imperative that we do a better job getting back on defense and preventing transition baskets.

KandG
03-12-2010, 02:21 PM
Give Virginia a lot of credit. This was pretty much the template for the perceived "typical Duke flameout" in the NCAAs: one of the stars is cold or shut down by the opponent, the team overall struggles to execute and/or gets in early trouble, the opponent takes their game to a higher level after an up and down season, motivated by playing against Duke.

I liked the composure we showed after the lead went down to two. I'm hoping it was just rust, because I like this team and have a good feeling about them. When they're moving the ball well in the halfcourt offense, and shutting down the opponents on defense, they're just wonderful to watch. Today they did that in stretches, and tomorrow I expect it will be a little better than just those few good minutes here and there.

Chard
03-12-2010, 02:22 PM
Two early fouls on Zoubek and Singler resulted in the close 1st half IMO. Well, that and a bunch of missed shots. ;) Miles and Mason came in and played well but Duke is so much better with Zoubek and Thomas in the game. Just the size alone of Zoubek is a factor.

At least the starters got some extra rest, intentionally and unintentionally.

Onward!

InSpades
03-12-2010, 02:22 PM
Are you watching everyone else during tournament week? All of the big names are struggling: the top Big East teams are out, OSU needed a circus shot to beat a bad Michigan team, Kansas was held in check by Texas Tech like we were by the Cavs, and even Kentucky is down at halftime.

Couldn't agree more. As far as top ranked teams go... if you win you are ahead of the curve. If you win without needing a last second shot to do it... you are way ahead of the curve. Conference tournaments have been crazy so far (especially the Big East and ACC).

DukeDevil
03-12-2010, 02:22 PM
I know mason didn't score off it but the backwards over the head pass by scheyer was really slick! I really want to see a replay of that...hoping it's on the DBP highlights...but it may not be given no score afterwards

dukelifer
03-12-2010, 02:38 PM
I'd love to agree with you, but this was against a pretty terrible Virginia team without their best player. The first round of the ACC tournament should not be a survive and advance kind of game. I'll cross my fingers Duke's road woes haven't returned...

This terrible team was a minute away from beating MD last week, beat BC yesterday and played tough. This is not a terrible team. They just lack some talent. First round tourney games are usually like this. The favored team is looking to advance and the underdog is looking to play all out. Usually that means a 10 point win rather than a 20 point win. Last year Duke beat BC by 1, in 2008 NC beat Fla State by 8, in 2006 Duke beat Miami by 4. Note all those teams won the tourney. That is how it goes.

jv001
03-12-2010, 02:38 PM
The late shots by Jon that went in will give him some added confidence tomorrow. Defense was pretty good, but offense not so good. Some lazy passes and some players not coming to the ball. Great to see Kyle posting up in our recent games. He is one tough guy. Nolan was really good, especially n the first half. Go Duke!

SCMatt33
03-12-2010, 02:38 PM
This game was like a relay race. Nolan carried the baton in the first half, passed it to Kyle who built the lead, and then Jon shut the door at the very end.

airowe
03-12-2010, 02:41 PM
Bennett's teams are tough to separate from unless you're hitting a high percentage of your shots. They are so disciplined and methodical. He's going to be a pain to go up against through the years.

I thought our guys played a great game defensively on the perimeter especially a great job on Zeiglinski. We fought through yet another cold shooting game from Jon and gritted out a win in a game where UVA played with an unbelievable amount of heart.

I loved seeing that toughness out of Kyle (he was promal out there.). When we needed a big play in the second half, Nolan, Jon, and Kyle each took turns providing it. Not pretty ovetall, but did what we needed to get a win.

Devil in the Blue Dress
03-12-2010, 02:41 PM
Are you watching everyone else during tournament week? All of the big names are struggling: the top Big East teams are out, OSU needed a circus shot to beat a bad Michigan team, Kansas was held in check by Texas Tech like we were by the Cavs, and even Kentucky is down at halftime.

May be the most insightful post on this thread.....

Andre Buckner Fan
03-12-2010, 02:42 PM
I'd love to agree with you, but this was against a pretty terrible Virginia team without their best player. The first round of the ACC tournament should not be a survive and advance kind of game. I'll cross my fingers Duke's road woes haven't returned...

I hardly think this is a pretty terrible team. They played Wake, Md, and VTx2 to the wire and had those games swung the other way they'd be a top seed.

Wander
03-12-2010, 02:48 PM
No shame in today's win, lots of top teams are struggling in their conference tournament. But please stop trying to argue that UVA is any good. They're not. To be blunt, they suck, and yes, "terrible" is a fair adjective to describe them in this context. They finished their regular season on a NINE GAME losing streak, and lost to some bottom feeders from other conferences - Penn State, Auburn, Stanford. Oh, and most of this happened before their best player was injured.

BlueintheFace
03-12-2010, 02:50 PM
I LOOOOOOVED what K did in the second half when Duke needed to get points and extend the lead. Run the clock down. Put it in Nolan's hands. Then run a play for Kyle or Jon to get the ball in a position to score off the ball (instead of forcing Jon to create for himself). That way we have our two best scorers and decision makers (IMO) as the primary options and our best creater with the ball in case those options don't work. It worked well.

Other thoughts.
- UVA is just a bad matchup for Zoubs. No concerns there moving forward.
- Jon played one of his worst complete games at Duke, but came up big at the end.
- The Plumlees played better. Miles had some great defensive plays.
- We saw some really weird lineups in the first half and had some foul trouble. Couple that with the early start time... I'm not too worried about this team going forward. When we needed leadership and toughness late, we got it.

Finally, Len Elmore is getting a little out of hand. It goes beyond rooting for the underdog. Seriously, he needs to be reigned in by ESPN.

tltgap
03-12-2010, 02:53 PM
Does anyone how Kyle ended up bleeding?

Billy Dat
03-12-2010, 02:53 PM
Loved K's explosion in the first half time out when the camera got him in close-up, face contorted in rage, screaming, "What the ..." before the angle changed and you couldn't read his lips anymore. Got me fired up!!!

CDu
03-12-2010, 03:05 PM
Does anyone how Kyle ended up bleeding?

Was Kyle bleeding, or did he just have blood on his jersey? It could very well be that he was wearing someone else's blood.

basket1544
03-12-2010, 03:06 PM
One thing to take from the game is that Mason didn't get called for a foul during the game. No reaching! YEA!
Len Elmore drove me crazy. Any time the crowd got loud it was obviously because everyone wanted to cheer for the underdog. Yeah, right.
Glad Coach K got everyone else to join in with Nolan for the second half.

TNDukeFan
03-12-2010, 03:07 PM
"Duke, the defending tournament champion and its No. 1 seed for the 17th time, became the winningest team in the tournament's history with their 85th victory. The Blue Devils entered tied with rival North Carolina, which will have to wait until next year to catch them after going one-and-done Thursday night."

rsvman
03-12-2010, 03:07 PM
Poor transition defense on multiple occasions. Missed threes with long rebounds leading to fastl-break baskets on the other end. We have to find a way to curb this problem.

My only other concern was there were too many Larry Drew II moments for our guards. Way too many. You have to protect the ball.



the other thing I want to add is that in some ways UVA is a better team without Landesburg. I know it seems counterintuitive because he's their best player, but when he was playing for them they had a tendency to become extremely one-dimensional, and the other players had a habit of becoming spectators of "The Landesburg Show." Without him they are forced to play as a team.

CDu
03-12-2010, 03:17 PM
Well, the defense was there again. We held them to 46 points on 32% shooting (we held them to 49 points on 31% shooting in the previous matchup). We just couldn't score in this one.

Scheyer looked like he was not quite right for most of the game. He was throwing somewhat lazy passes (several got tipped and a few led to steals, as UVa attacked the passing lanes), struggling with his dribble, and of course missing shots. I'm not sure what the deal was. But he came up with some nice buckets late in the game, which will hopefully get him righted.

I thought the Plumlees played a bit better in this one than they have in previous games. They didn't show up much in the box score, but they didn't get as lost defensively and they didn't commit the silly fouls that they've become famous for of late. And they were on the floor during the stretch where we built the 11 point lead (which was subsequently both lost and regained again after they left the floor). Hopefully that's something to build on.

It was a great second half from Singler. He made so many big plays.

Basically, this was a case of the more talented team prevailing, but it was a great effort by the Hoos. They should be proud of how well they played the last few games without Landesburg. I think Bennett is going to do well with time and more talent, but that remains to be seen.

In any case, let's look forward to hopefully playing better tomorrow against VT or Miami, and getting back to the ACC final again.

MChambers
03-12-2010, 03:29 PM
Two early fouls on Zoubek and Singler resulted in the close 1st half IMO. Well, that and a bunch of missed shots. ;) Miles and Mason came in and played well but Duke is so much better with Zoubek and Thomas in the game. Just the size alone of Zoubek is a factor.

At least the starters got some extra rest, intentionally and unintentionally.

Onward!

But usually Coach K doesn't bench starters with two fouls in the first half. Interesting that he did it today.

CDu
03-12-2010, 03:34 PM
But usually Coach K doesn't bench starters with two fouls in the first half. Interesting that he did it today.

He's done it fairly often this year.

MChambers
03-12-2010, 03:37 PM
He's done it fairly often this year.

I certainly understand it with Zoubek, but I don't remember Singler sitting for so long.

BlueintheFace
03-12-2010, 03:37 PM
I don't know that our defense was really as good as the numbers indicate. The cavs missed a lot of wide open shots in the 1st half.

tltgap
03-12-2010, 03:54 PM
Was Kyle bleeding, or did he just have blood on his jersey? It could very well be that he was wearing someone else's blood.

Could be. I figured it was his though, since he went to show it to the ref and then sat down.

Dukefan4Life
03-12-2010, 03:56 PM
Well we got the win and we should all be happy about that, but we didnt realyl play well at all except for our defense which could have been better. kyle showed some fire and able to lead us. I am just happy we werent playing a better or we could have been in major trouble! I have a feeling we will play alot better next game! GOoooooOOOOO Duke!!!

CDu
03-12-2010, 04:00 PM
Well we got the win and we should all be happy about that, but we didnt realyl play well at all except for our defense which could have been better. kyle showed some fire and able to lead us. I am just happy we werent playing a better or we could have been in major trouble! I have a feeling we will play alot better next game! GOoooooOOOOO Duke!!!

Yep. Hopefully we got the clunker out of our system against UVa. We'll need to play better against VT/Miami to make the final. I think we'll play better tomorrow.

Dukefan4Life
03-12-2010, 04:04 PM
Yeah so do I. we just looked really flat on offense and john didnt seem to have his legs at all!

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-12-2010, 04:09 PM
I like that they sat, means rested legs for the ncaa tourny.

moonpie23
03-12-2010, 04:29 PM
does anyone how kyle ended up bleeding?

this kyle singler????

GODUKEGO
03-12-2010, 04:32 PM
I was at the game today. Good news is the place was about 75% full and plenty of Devil fans. The bad news is they forgot to make noise. I know it is not CIS but it was embarrassing that Virginia fans were louder yet were outnumbered 4:1. As someone earlier mentioned there are plenty of tickets available. I bought four for the semi-finals way below face value. If you can make alot of noise come over and join us. 8 more!!!!

greybeard
03-12-2010, 04:32 PM
Just got to listen, not watch.

Sounded as if K went into this intending to make sure that the Big Dogs got to hunt, at least a little bit. Some things are priceless, and getting those guys involved in trying to directly score the ball in the first game of the ACC tournament is one of em, in my opinion.

Kedsy
03-12-2010, 04:48 PM
I like that they sat, means rested legs for the ncaa tourny.

I can see how resting today could mean marginally fresher legs tomorrow and the next day. But then the team gets a minimum of 4 days rest -- do you really think that a few minutes of rest today will have any effect on a game played a week from now?

That aside, Jon played 38 minutes today, Nolan played 37, and Kyle played 32. So of the three only Kyle played fewer minutes than his season average (and only 3.5 minutes fewer, at that). It's hard to imagine this amount of "rest" could have any ramifications from a freshness perspective.

I know a lot of people really believe the game minutes matter for future freshness, including Len Elmore who went on and on and on about it today, but the concept just seems ludicrous to me.

I also know the Boards have gone back and forth on this since the dawn of time. Sometimes I just can't stop myself.

BD80
03-12-2010, 04:51 PM
...

I loved seeing that toughness out of Kyle (he was promal out there.). ...

Does that mean he was wearing a powder blue tux, with top hat and tails? ;)

It is interesting to me how my favorite of the "Big Three" changes minute to minute as I watch a game.

I love how Jon controls a game, makes little adjustments with his body or the ball to set something up. The way he sees the court and all of the players, we need him to go all the way. He's my favorite.

Until Nolan reaches up for a tip about a foot over the rim. Or crosses over and lofts a half hook cutting across the lane. We need that level of athleticism to win it all. He's my favorite.

Until Kyle fights for rebound tipping it to himself, and draws contact while making the put back. And gives the primal yell. We need that level of intensity to win it all. He's my favorite.

Ah hell. Z just muscled another rebound in traffic. We need that kind of inside presence to win it all. He's my favorite. ...

I enjoy watching this team

Dukeface88
03-12-2010, 05:04 PM
Does that mean he was wearing a powder blue tux, with top hat and tails? ;)


I sincerely hope that Kyle never wears a powder blue anything.

BD80
03-12-2010, 05:05 PM
I can see how resting today could mean marginally fresher legs tomorrow and the next day. But then the team gets a minimum of 4 days rest -- do you really think that a few minutes of rest today will have any effect on a game played a week from now?

That aside, Jon played 38 minutes today, Nolan played 37, and Kyle played 32. So of the three only Kyle played fewer minutes than his season average (and only 3.5 minutes fewer, at that). It's hard to imagine this amount of "rest" could have any ramifications from a freshness perspective.

I know a lot of people really believe the game minutes matter for future freshness, including Len Elmore who went on and on and on about it today, but the concept just seems ludicrous to me.

I also know the Boards have gone back and forth on this since the dawn of time. Sometimes I just can't stop myself.

Still in your camp on this one. The rest may help for tomorrow and Sunday, but not Thursday or Friday.

I think the extra minutes are more to get Andre and the MPs more PT. I think they are now to the point that they are starting to make good decisions on defense and offense, and that the extra PT is helping reinforce those practices.

I am glad we will have Miami instead of VaTech, because it will be a better technical learning experience. Miami is more about talent than effort, and boxing out and rotations are more critical - kinda like an upper level bball course. In contrast, VaTech would have been a dog fight and not necessarily as much about positioning as fighting through screens or fighting for position - more like the internship where you learn what the real world is really like. Our underclassmen still need those upper level courses and Miami will be good experience for them.

Despite how poorly VaTech played against Miami, you know they would have given us a tough game tomorrow.

OldPhiKap
03-12-2010, 05:06 PM
I sincerely hope that Kyle never wears a powder blue anything.

. . . Unless he's scraping it off the bottom of his shoe.

MChambers
03-12-2010, 05:07 PM
Just got to listen, not watch.

Sounded as if K went into this intending to make sure that the Big Dogs got to hunt, at least a little bit. Some things are priceless, and getting those guys involved in trying to directly score the ball in the first game of the ACC tournament is one of em, in my opinion.

Yes, our big men had a fair number of attempts, but didn't convert very well. Zoubek set the tone by taking the first shot and hitting the side of the backboard. :( Still, I was glad to see some low post passes.

watzone
03-12-2010, 05:07 PM
Post game audio comments fro Coach K, Smith and Singler and then Smith alone.

http://bluedevilnation.net/

sagegrouse
03-12-2010, 05:13 PM
But usually Coach K doesn't bench starters with two fouls in the first half. Interesting that he did it today.

I believe he always has the player with two fouls in the first half sit for a few minutes. It's almost like meditation. Then he may or may not insert him in the game. I thought the Plumlees were playing reasonably well. Also, I thought the fouls against Zoubs were on the questionable side, and maybe Coack agreed that it was too risky to send him back.

The reason for the sit is so that the player doesn't get upset about the foul call, lose his temper, and do something stupid (like commit a third foul).

sagegrouse

Kedsy
03-12-2010, 05:20 PM
Despite how poorly VaTech played against Miami, you know they would have given us a tough game tomorrow.

Completely agree with this. I was thinking that very thing while watching the VaTech/Miami game.

I also happen to think Miami is going to give us a tough game tomorrow.

Greg_Newton
03-12-2010, 05:37 PM
Finally, Len Elmore is getting a little out of hand. It goes beyond rooting for the underdog. Seriously, he needs to be reigned in by ESPN.

Seriously. His hate for all things tobacco road is disgusting. When it gets to the point that his terping against UNC is driving me crazy (i.e. last night), it means it's getting ridiculous. If he were simply favoring the opponent, it would be one thing, but if it's flat-out whining about multiple calls every game it's just petty and childish. Not becoming for a major network commentator.

Devil in the Blue Dress
03-12-2010, 05:40 PM
Completely agree with this. I was thinking that very thing while watching the VaTech/Miami game.

I also happen to think Miami is going to give us a tough game tomorrow.

We might as well expect that to be SOP for the rest of the tournament play.

MChambers
03-12-2010, 06:05 PM
I believe he always has the player with two fouls in the first half sit for a few minutes. It's almost like meditation. Then he may or may not insert him in the game. I thought the Plumlees were playing reasonably well. Also, I thought the fouls against Zoubs were on the questionable side, and maybe Coack agreed that it was too risky to send him back.

The reason for the sit is so that the player doesn't get upset about the foul call, lose his temper, and do something stupid (like commit a third foul).

sagegrouse
I know it is SOP for most coaches, but I thought coach K will leave a player in if he thinks he can handle it (like the Big Three). I also thought he has said players need to learn to play with foul trouble.

greybeard
03-12-2010, 06:32 PM
Heard a serious discussion on the radio yesterday, okay it was the Kornheiser show, about how a number of coaches who think that they have a real shot at the big one prefer not to go deep in their mini tournaments; think three in three nights is too much and leaves players wasted for the duration.

Tomorrow will depend to a great extent on the extent the refs let Miami literally push people around. They play on the other side of rough; if allowed to, they can win a dog fight. Hey, don't they send people to jail for those things? Seriously, this coach at Miami has brought the "U" mentality from the football field to the basketball court.

Nevertheless, Singler will do what he must to will this team to victory, and if the Z man is not hamstrung, I think you might see an outstanding display. And, oh, Smith is amped and I see the MPs coming. Lance, Lance is a senior and he will play like it. I'm pysched. But alas, a Feldenkrais training. Later, I gotta go and figure out how to use that DVR function. :o

GODUKEGO
03-12-2010, 07:18 PM
Tomorrow will depend to a great extent on the extent the refs let Miami literally push people around. They play on the other side of rough; if allowed to, they can win a dog fight. Hey, don't they send people to jail for those things? Seriously, this coach at Miami has brought the "U" mentality from the football field to the basketball court.


Agree 100%. If the ref's tomorrow let Miami back in and run us over and lower the shoulders and drive to the basket, it wil be a long afternoon. Also if they do not call three seconds in the lane which is a call that I can not remember the last one that was called. Maybe I was out of town when they changed that rule.

MartyClark
03-12-2010, 07:25 PM
I wonder whether Jon was under the weather today. He didn't look like his usual self. The early shots were way short and, getting the ball stolen at half court later in the game, isn't like him.

If he was sick, we'll never hear an excuse from this young man. Hopefully he just was off his game a bit and will be back with a vengeance tomorrow.

Let's go Duke!

EKU1969
03-12-2010, 07:37 PM
I don't know, but you show up for the tournament today with one shoot around at this facility...you might have problems! I told my son that I thought they should check the height of the rims after watching all the pitiful perfomances up til then. Until Miami/VT Miami scored the most points and only 3 other teams broke 60! Give me a break! Go DUKE!

Starter
03-12-2010, 07:40 PM
Scheyer seemed a step slow today and his shooting was really off, perhaps the worst display of airballs and missed opportunities for him, plus he got picked by the small but speedy guards for Virginia. It just looked like he was dead tired out there. At least in the end he was able to show some of what makes him a really great college player.


Real talk. This has been the white elephant in the room for quite some time; he's played a lot of very hard minutes this season. Hopefully the improvements in the games of Singler and Zoubek can help counterbalance this.

CDu
03-12-2010, 07:43 PM
I wonder whether Jon was under the weather today. He didn't look like his usual self. The early shots were way short and, getting the ball stolen at half court later in the game, isn't like him.

If he was sick, we'll never hear an excuse from this young man. Hopefully he just was off his game a bit and will be back with a vengeance tomorrow.

Let's go Duke!

That was my thought as well.

DevilHorns
03-12-2010, 09:00 PM
Just watched the game on espn360 (had an exam so couldnt see it live)

thoughts:
1) Elmore is a complete ... He cannot comment on a game without letting his bias seep through. I can't take it anymore. He somehow is majestically certain that our missed shots are due to high minutes. Hate is a strong word. Lets leave it at that.
2) Jon had an off night. He cannot have any more off-night's if we hope to advance past the first weekend.
3) Nolan and Kyle came up huge all night. I was a little concerned that Kyle didnt get the ball at all early in the game, especially when Jon wasnt hitting. Im glad he got more touches later on obviously.
4) I like the strategy feeding the ball inside. Sometimes shots don't drop even if they're high %. If we feed inside and make the right outlet pass / make the high % shot we have a great chance to advance far.
5) Great defensive effort by Lance and the enitre squad.
6) A win is a win. Make no mistake, UM will be ready.

greybeard
03-12-2010, 09:56 PM
Yes, our big men had a fair number of attempts, but didn't convert very well. Zoubek set the tone by taking the first shot and hitting the side of the backboard. :( Still, I was glad to see some low post passes.

Sometimes the joy of the game, getting your chance, counts. Miles hit his first shot if I recall right. The guy on the radio said it was from "no angle" from a tweener distance. "Life, is here, onnnnly, for the taking." Country Joe

Good for K and his assistants! Good for Miles! Good for Z, who did make a few! Good for Mason, who it sounded like stormed the rim early on one play! Good for Duke!

Spring is almost here, it's post season time, and "the time is right, to go racin in the streets." Look it up, if you don't know;some really fine lyrics.

Eternal Outlaw
03-12-2010, 10:03 PM
Heard a serious discussion on the radio yesterday, okay it was the Kornheiser show, about how a number of coaches who think that they have a real shot at the big one prefer not to go deep in their mini tournaments; think three in three nights is too much and leaves players wasted for the duration.



In the last decade, 6 of the 10 Champions won their conference tourney. The other 4 lost in the semi-finals. Have a hard time believing those teams would have been drastically fatigued from 40 more minutes if they had won the semi-finals.

Jim3k
03-12-2010, 10:52 PM
Bennett's teams are tough to separate from unless you're hitting a high percentage of your shots. They are so disciplined and methodical. He's going to be a pain to go up against through the years.

I thought our guys played a great game defensively on the perimeter especially a great job on Zeiglinski. We fought through yet another cold shooting game from Jon and gritted out a win in a game where UVA played with an unbelievable amount of heart.

I loved seeing that toughness out of Kyle (he was promal out there.). When we needed a big play in the second half, Nolan, Jon, and Kyle each took turns providing it. Not pretty ovetall, but did what we needed to get a win.

Promal?

roywhite
03-12-2010, 10:57 PM
Also if they do not call three seconds in the lane which is a call that I can not remember the last one that was called. Maybe I was out of town when they changed that rule.

Yeah, I thought the Wahoos were camping out in the lane. Between establishing position, receiving the ball, and often taking their time in shooting---certainly seemed like more than 3 seconds on a number of occasions.

striker219
03-12-2010, 11:31 PM
Was Kyle bleeding, or did he just have blood on his jersey? It could very well be that he was wearing someone else's blood.

With Kyle it's always someone else's blood. Always.

Kyle can't bleed.

mgtr
03-12-2010, 11:38 PM
With Kyle it's always someone else's blood. Always.

Kyle can't bleed.

Thats because he is promal!:D

Kedsy
03-13-2010, 12:06 AM
Jon had an off night. He cannot have any more off-night's if we hope to advance past the first weekend.

Exactly what is your evidence for this definitive statement?


Make no mistake, UM will be ready.

Ready for what? Their first NCAAT game?

noyac
03-13-2010, 12:12 AM
Scheyer has had off nights before and we have won on those same nights. I know it is not as likely that we win when he has an off night but I still think we can win.

SoCalDukeFan
03-13-2010, 12:15 AM
We last played Saturday night. We had 5 off days. Jon should not have been tired. He might have been under the weather or he might have been off. He was great at the end.

One of the very good things about Duke is that we have a Big 3 offensively and 4 bigs who rotate. Nolan carried us in the first half, Kyle for the most of the 2nd and Jon at the end.

Looking forward to the NCAAs.

SoCal

greybeard
03-13-2010, 12:31 AM
In the last decade, 6 of the 10 Champions won their conference tourney. The other 4 lost in the semi-finals. Have a hard time believing those teams would have been drastically fatigued from 40 more minutes if they had won the semi-finals.

Just reporting what the guy T was talking to and T had heard some coaches say--they'd rather play two than four, or even three, in as many nights, and be fresher for the Dance.

Me, I'd make sure my team played to win but had fun with it. League tournaments mean so much less, and the money is in going deep in the dance. Fun, I'd go for winning with fun.

DevilHorns
03-13-2010, 12:40 AM
Exactly what is your evidence for this definitive statement?



Ready for what? Their first NCAAT game?

We came off incredibly cold against UVA. I really believe that if we begin a game like this against a more formidable opponent we will lose early. That is my opinion. There is no such thing as hard evidence in basketball. All I have in terms of "evidence" is from looking at our recent tourney exits. We need to have our big 3 playing at least average in the beginning of the game against a decent opponent to give ourselves a good chance at winning. UVA played pretty much nil defense the first half and we still couldnt hit open jumpers. IMO, we will not have that luxury in the NCAAs.

Also, I dont think our players are tired, I think they just werent as focused the first half of the game.

Starter
03-13-2010, 01:22 AM
We last played Saturday night. We had 5 off days. Jon should not have been tired. He might have been under the weather or he might have been off. He was great at the end.

SoCal

Agreed, he shouldn't have been. Except that it takes more than five days to recover from a long season of shouldering an enormous amount of Duke's load at the Division 1 level. I've feared the worst this whole season seeing the minutes he's been forced to play, being so much the focal point of the team, with for the most part no credible backups at the guard position. He's now shooting 31% in his last seven -- the sample size is growing larger. I've heard nothing about him being sick, though I've heard faint rumblings of a bad back. To me, it just looks like junior and senior year Redick all over again.

Listen, I still think this team can do great things. But they might have to change the way they do them. Run it almost exclusively through Singler, and get more touches for Zoubek in the high post. Have Scheyer be more of a passer and playmaker, which we've seen him excel at in the past, and get Dawkins involved to add a bit more of a dynamic presence from outside. Krzyzewski has changed the game before to maximize the talent and trends that he currently has at his disposal. I trust that if that's something we have to do, that he'll do it again.

Chris4UNC
03-13-2010, 03:07 AM
Winner of Miami and VPI up next.

That was ugly - partuclarly the poor shooting - but we executed well down the stretch. I suspect we lose if this is th best we play all weekend. I also suspect we step it up a notch!

I tell you what folks, I don't know what to think. Three of the top four seeds are out leaving Duke. Could this be the year someone comes out of the Thursday games and wins this thing?

Chris4UNC
03-13-2010, 03:10 AM
We came off incredibly cold against UVA. I really believe that if we begin a game like this against a more formidable opponent we will lose early. That is my opinion. There is no such thing as hard evidence in basketball. All I have in terms of "evidence" is from looking at our recent tourney exits. We need to have our big 3 playing at least average in the beginning of the game against a decent opponent to give ourselves a good chance at winning. UVA played pretty much nil defense the first half and we still couldnt hit open jumpers. IMO, we will not have that luxury in the NCAAs.

Also, I dont think our players are tired, I think they just werent as focused the first half of the game.

Duke will lose early if they play like they did today, maybe. They have shown a in some games this year that they can definately dig down and work out a win. But that said, there are teams out there that they will not be able to come back on. Alot will depend on the draw in their bracket.

Chris4UNC
03-13-2010, 03:18 AM
Three of the top four have been bounced from the ACC Tournament leaving Duke. Two views can now be taken by Duke fans. One, things just got alot easier for the Devils. Or there is the second view that things could get very hard since these other teams are playing well. I do not think that the Duke players are looking past the ACC Tournament at all. They were just really sluggish against Virginia. But understand, no victory is to be taken for granted. Miami, Georgia Tech and N.C. State can beat Duke even when Duke is playing their best ball. Naturally I want to see Duke not win this thing. The way this tourny has went so far anything is possible.

Chris4UNC
03-13-2010, 03:23 AM
Agreed, he shouldn't have been. Except that it takes more than five days to recover from a long season of shouldering an enormous amount of Duke's load at the Division 1 level. I've feared the worst this whole season seeing the minutes he's been forced to play, being so much the focal point of the team, with for the most part no credible backups at the guard position. He's now shooting 31% in his last seven -- the sample size is growing larger. I've heard nothing about him being sick, though I've heard faint rumblings of a bad back. To me, it just looks like junior and senior year Redick all over again.

Listen, I still think this team can do great things. But they might have to change the way they do them. Run it almost exclusively through Singler, and get more touches for Zoubek in the high post. Have Scheyer be more of a passer and playmaker, which we've seen him excel at in the past, and get Dawkins involved to add a bit more of a dynamic presence from outside. Krzyzewski has changed the game before to maximize the talent and trends that he currently has at his disposal. I trust that if that's something we have to do, that he'll do it again.

I especially agree about getting more touches for Zoubek. I have said all along that for some reason the inside game at Duke has taken such a backseat that it has been non-existent in some of the most recent seasons. As good as Duke is having Zoubek more involved will make Duke's chances of going deep in the NCAA even better. I can't see them winning it all unless that happens......perish the thought, ugh! :eek:

ice-9
03-13-2010, 03:24 AM
Three of the top four have been bounced from the ACC Tournament leaving Duke. Two views can now be taken by Duke fans. One, things just got alot easier for the Devils. Or there is the second view that things could get very hard since these other teams are playing well. I do not think that the Duke players are looking past the ACC Tournament at all. They were just really sluggish against Virginia. But understand, no victory is to be taken for granted. Miami, Georgia Tech and N.C. State can beat Duke even when Duke is playing their best ball. Naturally I want to see Duke not win this thing. The way this tourny has went so far anything is possible.

Get beat while playing our best ball? I don't think so. We're not UNC. :cool:

Chris4UNC
03-13-2010, 03:41 AM
We came off incredibly cold against UVA. I really believe that if we begin a game like this against a more formidable opponent we will lose early. That is my opinion. There is no such thing as hard evidence in basketball. All I have in terms of "evidence" is from looking at our recent tourney exits. We need to have our big 3 playing at least average in the beginning of the game against a decent opponent to give ourselves a good chance at winning. UVA played pretty much nil defense the first half and we still couldnt hit open jumpers. IMO, we will not have that luxury in the NCAAs.

Also, I dont think our players are tired, I think they just werent as focused the first half of the game.

They probably did have a focus issue. Could they be looking ahead to the NCAA Tournament? Save for UNC in '07 and '08 and Maryland in '04 Duke has made this their personal conference invitational of late. I think Coach Krzyzewski will remind them that a number 1 seed is riding on their winning this tournament. I will admit that I would take a National Championship any year over a conference tournament title. I believe the regular season champions are the true champions of the conference anyway, but I digress. Coach Krzyzewski will get those kids in gear. Win or lose against Miami or on Sunday they will be playing with more focus and motivation. But that said I think they will really have to gut this tournament through if they are to win their 18th ACC Tournament title, breaking their tie with UNC at 17 ACC Tournament titles apiece. This tourny has taken on the look of a low scoring grudge match. Then again low scoring suits a defensive minded team like Duke.

Chris4UNC
03-13-2010, 03:42 AM
A category 5 hurricane will do nicely.

Starter
03-13-2010, 03:57 AM
I will admit that I would take a National Championship any year over a conference tournament title.

With all due respect, I think this year in particular UNC would have gladly taken the conference tournament title.

mike88
03-13-2010, 04:20 AM
We had our worst game of the year in terms of offensive efficiency vs UVA (89.9) but also our second best game in terms of defensive efficiency (72.6, second only to the Gonzaga game). Most of the lack of offensive efficiency came from us not shooting well (eFG 41%) but we also had a much lower rate of offensive rebounds (27%, vs. 40% for the year) - turnover % (17%) and free throw rate (31) were slightly below average for us as well.

I had said earlier in the week that I didn't think we would keep up the high offensive rebound % going forward. As such, I don't think we will continue to beat good teams unless we either 1) shoot better or 2) really minimize turnovers (under 12%). I think our best chance of improving our offensive performance is to shoot better. If we can do that, and maintain our good defense, we should be in good shape until the Sweet Sixteen. But I don't think we will beat Miami or NCSU/GT or our second round NCAA opponent with another offensive performance like today.

COYS
03-13-2010, 06:24 AM
We had our worst game of the year in terms of offensive efficiency vs UVA (89.9) but also our second best game in terms of defensive efficiency (72.6, second only to the Gonzaga game). Most of the lack of offensive efficiency came from us not shooting well (eFG 41%) but we also had a much lower rate of offensive rebounds (27%, vs. 40% for the year) - turnover % (17%) and free throw rate (31) were slightly below average for us as well.

I had said earlier in the week that I didn't think we would keep up the high offensive rebound % going forward. As such, I don't think we will continue to beat good teams unless we either 1) shoot better or 2) really minimize turnovers (under 12%). I think our best chance of improving our offensive performance is to shoot better. If we can do that, and maintain our good defense, we should be in good shape until the Sweet Sixteen. But I don't think we will beat Miami or NCSU/GT or our second round NCAA opponent with another offensive performance like today.

I'm not really sure why our offensive rebounding should continue to decline as long as Zoubs can stay on the floor. He has proven himself to be one of the premier rebounders in all of college basketball. Foul trouble forced us to go without Zoubs and Kyle for important stretches. During these stretches we ran three guard lineups which just aren't going to grab as many boards. In the second half, both Zoubs and Kyle had put backs off of offensive boards which were pivotal baskets in the game. I think that offensive rebounding will continue to be our primary source of easy buckets and needs to be an emphasis for our team. Obviously, making a higher percentage of our shots would be awesome, but as long as we matchup well with the teams we face, I don't see why our offensive rebounding won't continue to be a big asset to our offensive attack.

DevilHorns
03-13-2010, 06:34 AM
Agreed, he shouldn't have been. Except that it takes more than five days to recover from a long season of shouldering an enormous amount of Duke's load at the Division 1 level. I've feared the worst this whole season seeing the minutes he's been forced to play, being so much the focal point of the team, with for the most part no credible backups at the guard position. He's now shooting 31% in his last seven -- the sample size is growing larger. I've heard nothing about him being sick, though I've heard faint rumblings of a bad back. To me, it just looks like junior and senior year Redick all over again.

Listen, I still think this team can do great things. But they might have to change the way they do them. Run it almost exclusively through Singler, and get more touches for Zoubek in the high post. Have Scheyer be more of a passer and playmaker, which we've seen him excel at in the past, and get Dawkins involved to add a bit more of a dynamic presence from outside. Krzyzewski has changed the game before to maximize the talent and trends that he currently has at his disposal. I trust that if that's something we have to do, that he'll do it again.

I honestly think it was mind games for Jon the whole night. I dont buy the tired legs crap. We had a lot of rest, and there is no reason he would all of a sudden have tired legs in the BEGINNING of this game.

I do know this, we can't have games like this if we hope to advance far. I think a sweet 16 opponent would carve up a first half like this from the blue devils. Its not like we werent getting open looks, it was just that we couldnt finish anything. Sometimes that happens, lets hope its the last time this year.

moonpie23
03-13-2010, 07:10 AM
now, tell me......which TV genius suggested putting an open mic on Coach K, and then which control room genius thought it would be a good idea to actually feed that mic to the live feed?....

moonpie23
03-13-2010, 07:16 AM
T I believe the regular season champions are the true champions of the conference anyway, .................


...... win their 18th ACC Tournament title, breaking their tie with UNC at 17 ACC Tournament titles apiece.


......................This tourny has taken on the look of a low scoring grudge match. Then again low scoring suits a defensive minded team like Duke.

i'm sorry chris, could you be a LITTLE MORE CONDESCENDING?? cause i'm not real good with SUBTLETY!

the conference "winner" is the Tourny champion, has been, will always be. Before huck came back to town, UNC took it a little more seriously.


Don't you have some NIT scenarios to be going over???

Skitzle
03-13-2010, 07:24 AM
Last year Duke beat BC by 1, in 2008 NC beat Fla State by 8, in 2006 Duke beat Miami by 4. Note all those teams won the tourney. That is how it goes.

And none of those teams made the elite 8....


Just saying....

dukelifer
03-13-2010, 07:39 AM
And none of those teams made the elite 8....


Just saying....

Really? I thought UNC got to a FF in 2008.

Skitzle
03-13-2010, 07:56 AM
Really? I thought UNC got to a FF in 2008.

It did I meant the duke teams...

Delaware
03-13-2010, 09:30 AM
We had our worst game of the year in terms of offensive efficiency vs UVA (89.9) but also our second best game in terms of defensive efficiency (72.6, second only to the Gonzaga game). Most of the lack of offensive efficiency came from us not shooting well (eFG 41%) but we also had a much lower rate of offensive rebounds (27%, vs. 40% for the year) - turnover % (17%) and free throw rate (31) were slightly below average for us as well.

I had said earlier in the week that I didn't think we would keep up the high offensive rebound % going forward. As such, I don't think we will continue to beat good teams unless we either 1) shoot better or 2) really minimize turnovers (under 12%). I think our best chance of improving our offensive performance is to shoot better. If we can do that, and maintain our good defense, we should be in good shape until the Sweet Sixteen. But I don't think we will beat Miami or NCSU/GT or our second round NCAA opponent with another offensive performance like today.


I think the biggest weakness right now for Duke is transition defense. Duke takes threes that we expect to go in, a lot from the wings and corners vs. out top (where guards are more able to get back) and we expect to crash the boards and win a lot of those for recycled possessions and more open threes. When our shooting is REALLY off and we don't efficiently rebound on the offensive end, our court balance is poor (and Plumlees and Zoubek are not fast getting back) and we give up run out layups.

Now the question is... how poor is poor from a shooting perspective against a good team and are the recycled possessions and open threes more valuable than a few run out layups? It has worked so far as 3 is greater than 2 and our halfcourt defense has been very good so far (except a few notable games).

This is the way Duke plays offense... I don't think it will change significantly. The first key is obviously shooting percentage. The next big key is probably Zoubek and Thomas (and Kyle) staying out of foul trouble, because their offensive rebounding is much better than the Plumlees right now.

dukelifer
03-13-2010, 09:42 AM
It did I meant the duke teams...

Last Duke team to get to the FF lost the ACC tourney

NSDukeFan
03-13-2010, 11:05 AM
It is interesting to me how my favorite of the "Big Three" changes minute to minute as I watch a game.

I love how Jon controls a game, makes little adjustments with his body or the ball to set something up. The way he sees the court and all of the players, we need him to go all the way. He's my favorite.

Until Nolan reaches up for a tip about a foot over the rim. Or crosses over and lofts a half hook cutting across the lane. We need that level of athleticism to win it all. He's my favorite.

Until Kyle fights for rebound tipping it to himself, and draws contact while making the put back. And gives the primal yell. We need that level of intensity to win it all. He's my favorite.

Ah hell. Z just muscled another rebound in traffic. We need that kind of inside presence to win it all. He's my favorite. ...

I enjoy watching this team

Great post. It certainly is hard to pick a favorite on a team full of favorites.