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MarkD83
03-12-2010, 09:34 AM
I have read on several of the recruiting threads that Nate James has been involved in finding several of the recruits that Duke has landed (Gbinije) or is trying to land.

If any of these players are like Nate James on the court Duke fans will be very happy.

(This is not a slight to Wojo or Chris who are also finding good kids, just a thank you to Nate.)

DUKIECB
03-12-2010, 09:43 AM
I don't think Nate "found" these kids as plenty of other major schools were competing for his services. I think we should celebrate that he seems to be able to draw these recruits toward Duke in such a convincing manner. Hopefully it isn't just coincidence and he can continue to be a major recruiter for us. Keep up the good work Nate!

Inonehand
03-12-2010, 09:43 AM
The phrase 'balls to the wall' was originally conceived to describe Nate James entering any recruit's home smaller than an aircraft hangar.

Johnboy
03-12-2010, 09:56 AM
Thank you, Mr. Badass!

NYDukie
03-12-2010, 10:56 AM
Will be interesting to see how NateDog affects Duke's recruiting going forward as I think he brings a "toughness", "swagger" and "street cred" to the program that has been lacking of late. Also, he brings a "connection point" now to those African-American recruits that has been lacking since Johnny D left. Given the negative impact of how Duke LAX indirectly affected Duke overall and how the program has been stereotyped as being too "white" of late, the impact that NateDog could bring should not be underestimated. I understand that this year's class coming in will be all African-American but the stereotype of the Duke program does exist. I know this is a sensitive subject but one that we cannot pretend doesn't exist. NateDog regardless of skin color is a great representative of the team and the program and looks like he will be a tremendous asset to the program.

On a related matter, what is Carrawell's role in the program and what impact, if any, do those "in the know" feel he will also have on the program relating to those they recruit?

davekay1971
03-12-2010, 11:02 AM
Nate James will only bring the toughest players to Duke.

Any recruit without the utmost courage will simply flee in terror when the Baddest of Badasses enters his home. The thought of practicing and playing in front of Nate James will send all but the bravest and most confident players to their knees in terror. Only those with the heart of a lion will be able to look him in the eye and shake his hand. Do you think "Soft as Charmin" Ed Davis or John "Thin"son would have had the courage or heart to stand in the presence of Nate James? He is the recruiter who will make sure no lilly-livered prima donnas will ever don the Duke uniform.

Real men will die to play for him.

The rest will go to Carolina.

camion
03-12-2010, 11:23 AM
Kudos to Nate. I'm very happy he is on the staff.

I don't think we should underestimate the value of Roy Williams's coaching this year in steering potential recruits to Duke. :D

airowe
03-12-2010, 11:31 AM
Nate James doesn't recruit. He just stands near them until they say yes.

Reddevil
03-12-2010, 03:08 PM
Kudos to Nate. I'm very happy he is on the staff.

I don't think we should underestimate the value of Roy Williams's coaching this year in steering potential recruits to Duke. :D

I don't think we should underestimate the Nate James stare as a catalyst for the performance of unc this year.

When Bruce Banner gets mad, he turns into the hulk. When the hulk gets mad he turns into Nate James.

Some people wear Superman pajamas. Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. Chuck Norris wears Nate James pajamas.

Nate James CAN believe it's not butter.

Nate James CAN touch MC Hammer.

Seriously, he has been involved in some great recruiting. What an asset!

Franzez
03-12-2010, 03:11 PM
Is he Coach K's "heir" to taking over this Duke basketball program once Coach K retires?

juise
03-12-2010, 03:15 PM
Is he Coach K's "heir" to taking over this Duke basketball program once Coach K retires?

Weall appreciate Nate, but I think that's taking it way too far. Chris and Wojo are both titled "associate head coach" where Nate is still working his way up as an "assistant." The former have both worked with the Olympic team and Nate has not yet had that opportunity. I'm not saying that he doesn't have the talent or drive for the job... just that it's way too early to put that kind of title on him.


But... way to make a splash, Nate!

JohnGalt
03-12-2010, 03:23 PM
Is he Coach K's "heir" to taking over this Duke basketball program once Coach K retires?

I have to agree this is taking it a bit too far. I have to hope that Johnny Dawkins is still the lead candidate for the job...assuming his performance at Stanford legitimizes it. Don't overlook Amaker, either. He's doing well at Harvard. As premature (i hope) as this conversation is, Wojo or Collins becoming head coach would be disastrous, IMO.

NM Duke Fan
03-12-2010, 03:26 PM
Will be interesting to see how NateDog affects Duke's recruiting going forward as I think he brings a "toughness", "swagger" and "street cred" to the program that has been lacking of late. Also, he brings a "connection point" now to those African-American recruits that has been lacking since Johnny D left. Given the negative impact of how Duke LAX indirectly affected Duke overall and how the program has been stereotyped as being too "white" of late, the impact that NateDog could bring should not be underestimated. I understand that this year's class coming in will be all African-American but the stereotype of the Duke program does exist. I know this is a sensitive subject but one that we cannot pretend doesn't exist. NateDog regardless of skin color is a great representative of the team and the program and looks like he will be a tremendous asset to the program.

On a related matter, what is Carrawell's role in the program and what impact, if any, do those "in the know" feel he will also have on the program relating to those they recruit?

Having played alot of street ball in both LA and DC in my younger years, I say excellent and very realistic post!

SCMatt33
03-12-2010, 03:30 PM
I have to agree this is taking it a bit too far. I have to hope that Johnny Dawkins is still the lead candidate for the job...assuming his performance at Stanford legitimizes it. Don't overlook Amaker, either. He's doing well at Harvard. As premature (i hope) as this conversation is, Wojo or Collins becoming head coach would be disastrous, IMO.

I think after looking at what happened down the road, I think it would be wise, whenever this happens to hire someone with significant head coaching experience. I agree that if it happened sooner rather than later, Johnny Dawkins might be the guy, but there could be as many as 10-12 years until this happens so you never know. Either way, after having the exact same coaching staff for about a decade, I think that Nate James has provided a fresh look for us.

NashvilleDevil
03-12-2010, 03:49 PM
I have to agree this is taking it a bit too far. I have to hope that Johnny Dawkins is still the lead candidate for the job...assuming his performance at Stanford legitimizes it. Don't overlook Amaker, either. He's doing well at Harvard. As premature (i hope) as this conversation is, Wojo or Collins becoming head coach would be disastrous, IMO.

Don't see Amaker having any shot at being Duke's coach when Coach K retires. Had 1 good year at Seton Hall and then did nothing at Michigan. It could be Dawkins but like you said he has to have success at Stanford. I disagree that Collins and Wojo would be disasters. Replacement talk is still probably 10+ years away and Nate and who knows maybe Carrawell could be established as the successor by then.

IBleedBlue
03-12-2010, 03:55 PM
Coach Capel and Coach Dawkins should be our preferences in that order. Just like Coach Nate is relating to younger and athletic recruits these days, Coach Capel is also bringing in great recruits at OU. He seems to have that same connection with the recruits and they seem to enjoy his company as well. Another 10 years of head coaching at OU will make him better suited to the rigors of ACC.

davekay1971
03-12-2010, 05:07 PM
Wow, the thread sure jumped track to 1(j) quickly...

Greg_Newton
03-12-2010, 05:27 PM
I don't think Nate "found" these kids as plenty of other major schools were competing for his services. I think we should celebrate that he seems to be able to draw these recruits toward Duke in such a convincing manner. Hopefully it isn't just coincidence and he can continue to be a major recruiter for us. Keep up the good work Nate!

Actually, Nate did find Carrick Felix on a recruiting trip to the College of Southern Idaho to watch one of his teammates. He's been both a great recruiter and talent scout for us so far!

cspan37421
03-12-2010, 05:35 PM
Don't see Amaker having any shot at being Duke's coach when Coach K retires. Had 1 good year at Seton Hall and then did nothing at Michigan.

My fellow Tennesseean, there's a reason for that. Michigan's probation was announced just after Amaker was announced there. How was he supposed to recruit with that albatross around his neck? He recruited well at Seton Hall, and by all accounts is doing the same at Harvard.

I'm not saying he should get the nod over Johnny D or anyone else ... just don't count him out.

Note, too - MI hasn't really improved since he left, either.

NashvilleDevil
03-12-2010, 05:40 PM
My fellow Tennesseean, there's a reason for that. Michigan's probation was announced just after Amaker was announced there. How was he supposed to recruit with that albatross around his neck? He recruited well at Seton Hall, and by all accounts is doing the same at Harvard.

I'm not saying he should get the nod over Johnny D or anyone else ... just don't count him out.

Note, too - MI hasn't really improved since he left, either.

I factored all of that in when talking about Amaker. Right now I just don't see Amaker taking the reins in 10+ years. And yes Michigan is still terrible.

Classof06
03-12-2010, 05:47 PM
Will be interesting to see how NateDog affects Duke's recruiting going forward as I think he brings a "toughness", "swagger" and "street cred" to the program that has been lacking of late. Also, he brings a "connection point" now to those African-American recruits that has been lacking since Johnny D left. Given the negative impact of how Duke LAX indirectly affected Duke overall and how the program has been stereotyped as being too "white" of late, the impact that NateDog could bring should not be underestimated. I understand that this year's class coming in will be all African-American but the stereotype of the Duke program does exist. I know this is a sensitive subject but one that we cannot pretend doesn't exist. NateDog regardless of skin color is a great representative of the team and the program and looks like he will be a tremendous asset to the program.

On a related matter, what is Carrawell's role in the program and what impact, if any, do those "in the know" feel he will also have on the program relating to those they recruit?

Absolute co-sign. I was watching very closely to see who Krzyzewski replaced Johnny Dawkins with and Nate James was the perfect choice. There's no doubt in my mind Krzyzewski knew the stakes and knew exactly what he was doing. Coach K isn't stupid.

Let's be honest here, people; Duke would not be doing itself any favors by having an all-white staff. It may not be the most PC thing to say and it probably isn't fair. At all. But it is what it is. Duke is the only elite program over the past 20-25 years to consistently win with a lot of white kids, and I don't think it's inaccurate to say that Duke specifically recruits a certain kind of kid. I personally love that about Duke, but it has affected public perception of the program. Recruits, as 17-18 year-old kids, tend to feed off of public perception.

I don't know if all the recent recruiting success is all due to Nate (it's probably not). But as an African-American graduate of Duke, I can tell you that having a young black male on Duke's staff cannot be underestimated.

BD80
03-12-2010, 05:51 PM
...
Note, too - MI hasn't really improved since he left, either.

But they ARE well coached, as demonstrated by OSU being allowed to go the length of the court in 2.7 seconds to shoot a three at the buzzer to win the game, AFTER a time out was called, giving beeline a chance to set his defense. No one even attempted to redirect the dribbler, they were sitting back in a 1-2-2 zone up by 2. OK, I was lying about that well-coached thing.

Classof06
03-12-2010, 06:06 PM
Someone made a thread about this DIME maganize article, interviewing the Big 3. As the article outlines, there seems to be a shift in percpetion amongst recruits regarding Duke.

Not surprisingly, this shift in perception has coincided with Duke landing a killer 2010 class and kicking off the 2011 one with a bang.


http://dimemag.com/2010/03/dukes-big-three-bringing-back-the-cool-factor/#more-36235

SupaDave
03-12-2010, 06:07 PM
Absolute co-sign. I was watching very closely to see who Krzyzewski replaced Johnny Dawkins with and Nate James was the perfect choice. There's no doubt in my mind Krzyzewski knew the stakes and knew exactly what he was doing. Coach K isn't stupid.

Technically, Chris Collins holds Johnny D's old position.

JohnGalt
03-12-2010, 06:21 PM
Not surprisingly, this shift in perception has coincided with Duke landing a killer 2010 class and kicking off the 2011 one with a bang.[/URL]

I'd be careful classifying the 2010 class as a "killer" class. It's solid, but still only barely a top 10. Harrison Barnes would have made this class a "killer" class, but without him, the '98 class, '00 class, '02 class, and '05 classes were all markedly better. There might even be more I missed.

This is all based on High School rankings, of course, not collegiate achievement.

ElSid
03-12-2010, 06:58 PM
Don't see Amaker having any shot at being Duke's coach when Coach K retires. Had 1 good year at Seton Hall and then did nothing at Michigan. It could be Dawkins but like you said he has to have success at Stanford. I disagree that Collins and Wojo would be disasters. Replacement talk is still probably 10+ years away and Nate and who knows maybe Carrawell could be established as the successor by then.

yes amaker did nothing special at michigan. but he entered the program while it was under significant probation. i actually think he would have been excellent if he had a bit more time.

ElSid
03-12-2010, 07:07 PM
Absolute co-sign. I was watching very closely to see who Krzyzewski replaced Johnny Dawkins with and Nate James was the perfect choice. There's no doubt in my mind Krzyzewski knew the stakes and knew exactly what he was doing. Coach K isn't stupid.

Let's be honest here, people; Duke would not be doing itself any favors by having an all-white staff. It may not be the most PC thing to say and it probably isn't fair. At all. But it is what it is. Duke is the only elite program over the past 20-25 years to consistently win with a lot of white kids, and I don't think it's inaccurate to say that Duke specifically recruits a certain kind of kid. I personally love that about Duke, but it has affected public perception of the program. Recruits, as 17-18 year-old kids, tend to feed off of public perception.

I don't know if all the recent recruiting success is all due to Nate (it's probably not). But as an African-American graduate of Duke, I can tell you that having a young black male on Duke's staff cannot be underestimated.

race is a hot topic among my private email duke bball group...i'm glad to see some frankness in this public forum. while it is a sensitive topic, smart and observant people shouldn't pull wool over their eyes just to stay PC. everyone knows when doug gottlieb says alarmingly unathletic, he means jon scheyer can't jump high and isn't that fast. i bought it for a game or two and worried about jon but i'm thrilled that he proved me wrong. as for wojo and collins...these players were unlikeable despite their race. i'm sorry to both of them if they happen to read this. but it's true. i was a duke fan when wojo was playing and frankly couldn't stand him and what he stood for: the annoying little brother hustle style of basketball (the style i play...no one likes to play with me). i think jon scheyer, on the other hand, is very likable. he's all business, no frills, tried very hard, is deceptively tough, etc. I think people appreciate this and the recent podcast by sports guy gets to this a little bit.

nate is awesome. he was one of my favorite players when he played. his free throws and three pointer in the best duke game ever (maryland one minute come back game) show just how ice this guy is. he looks mean and is an amazing physical specimen. i coined the term "shoulding balls" (a combo-word of bowling balls and shoulders for no word people) to describe his absurd upper body. i'd want this guy to have my back for the rest of my life, which is what you get when you're a duke player. coach k and people like nate james sending you xmas cards (or hannukah cards in jon's case...btw, we haven't touched on the fact that jon is probably the best jewish player in the NCAA in an age...go tribe).

BD80
03-12-2010, 08:41 PM
...btw, we haven't touched on the fact that jon is probably the best jewish player in the NCAA in an age...go tribe).

What about Moses Malone?

Everyone knows Moses was Jewish!

diveonthefloor
03-12-2010, 10:28 PM
What about Moses Malone?

Everyone knows Moses was Jewish!

Of course your tongue is planted deep in your cheek....but Malone never played in the NCAA....(ha you thought I was gonna tell you Moses wasn't Jewish, didn't ya?)

branchero
03-12-2010, 10:42 PM
Sorry, just had to throw this in here...

Ten years and change ago I was on the East-West bus with my roommate. We're sitting near the back. Right before the bus leaves East, Nate James comes on the bus through the front door. He's wearing a gold number "14" on a chain. My roommate makes some tasteless joke about how obviously Nate isn't on the take because his gold 14 is so small and starts laughing.

About 30 seconds later, Nate has made it to the back of the bus and is standing in front of us. It's at this point my roommate realizes that the gold number "14" around Nate's neck is the size of a small frisbee and only looked small because of how huge his upper body was.

I spent the rest of the bus ride elbowing my roommate and whispering "tell him what you thought of his necklace"...

BD80
03-13-2010, 12:25 AM
Of course your tongue is planted deep in your cheek....but Malone never played in the NCAA....(ha you thought I was gonna tell you Moses wasn't Jewish, didn't ya?)

Hmmm. How about:

Isaiah: Thomas or Rider

Solomon Alabi

Israel Kirk

Ray Allen (nickname: Jesus)

Saul Smith (Tubby's son)

This is harder than I thought it would be ...


BTW, didn't Moses commit to play at Maryland? He probably got as close to graduating as that five year stretch of recruits under Sweatin' Gary.

gep
03-13-2010, 12:28 AM
Nate James will only bring the toughest players to Duke.

......

Real men will die to play for him.

The rest will go to Carolina.

as they say... "priceless".:D...

Reddevil
03-13-2010, 08:40 AM
as for wojo and collins...these players were unlikeable despite their race. i'm sorry to both of them if they happen to read this. but it's true. i was a duke fan when wojo was playing and frankly couldn't stand him and what he stood for: the annoying little brother hustle style of basketball


Collins and his head shake after a trey was easy to umm, not enjoy, but I always thought Wojo was extremely likeable. He was the little train that could. In a way he represented the common man. He showed that sometimes talent can be trumped by hustle, hard work, determination and desire. I don't see anything not to like, and he didn't seem to receive the hate from opponent fans that others have.

cspan37421
03-13-2010, 09:38 AM
well said, Reddevil!

CC never saw a deep shot he didn't like. I think Wojo was more Hurley-like in his selectivity - as well as grittiness on defense.

It's funny how DP hates him, though. And hates that slap-the-floor defense. I'm glad it's retired though - doesn't seem like a smart move to have your hands on the floor while playing defense.

NYDukie
03-13-2010, 09:42 AM
Having played alot of street ball in both LA and DC in my younger years, I say excellent and very realistic post!

Thanks. I hope most posters feel my point here is more positive than rattling the cage. It seems so far the posters see the positive. Growing up in Queens, NYC just outside Manhattan, I played in many streetball leagues, both in basketball and football. I just happened to be one of the few white kids in the leagues I played as where I grew up was very mixed with the leagues sometimes being much more minority based if played near city housing projects. I grew up with a lot good and bad black and white kids (I'll stay away from the PC descriptions) and know something about perception. And the added positive perception Nate helps bring the program is tremendous. Here you have a young black man, who grew up in or near D.C., that got away from the streets to play basketball at one of the most prestigious basketball/academics schools in the nation, contributed to a national championship, graduated and is now back at Duke coaching. For comparison, I grew up with a kid who was an awesome ball player and recruited by G-Town back in the early 90's and blew it because he was more loyal to the streets. He is now back in the old neighborhood being a low-life street dealer. So what else would a recruit of similar background to Nate want from a potential mentor? He would probably want someone like Nate! It again opens the door back further open for the Duke program and starts to do away with the stereotypes of the Duke program also. I know it is still a work in progress, but it's a great step in the right direction.

NYDukie
03-13-2010, 09:50 AM
Absolute co-sign. I was watching very closely to see who Krzyzewski replaced Johnny Dawkins with and Nate James was the perfect choice. There's no doubt in my mind Krzyzewski knew the stakes and knew exactly what he was doing. Coach K isn't stupid.

Let's be honest here, people; Duke would not be doing itself any favors by having an all-white staff. It may not be the most PC thing to say and it probably isn't fair. At all. But it is what it is. Duke is the only elite program over the past 20-25 years to consistently win with a lot of white kids, and I don't think it's inaccurate to say that Duke specifically recruits a certain kind of kid. I personally love that about Duke, but it has affected public perception of the program. Recruits, as 17-18 year-old kids, tend to feed off of public perception.

I don't know if all the recent recruiting success is all due to Nate (it's probably not). But as an African-American graduate of Duke, I can tell you that having a young black male on Duke's staff cannot be underestimated.

We all know Duke is limited to its recruiting pool due to academic restraints as you mentioned. It just seems the past few years that this pool has included more white recruits and this just feeds the perception. And when you combine that with the misses of top targets such as Monroe, Boyton and PP to name a few and the LAX incidejnt, the perfect anti-Duke storm by the media and other schools grow and is promoted to other recruits. I don't know if Duke will ever be the "it" school amongst inner city black kids (growing up in NYC I saw a lot of UNLV and Michigan jerseys/hats back in the 90's here) but I can see a "perception" change coming in the upcoming years since there is a lot of positive feedback from Lebron, Kobe and Wade regarding Coach K and Nate assisting in a positive manner in the recruiting. The one major common denominator is that they are all young black men with a positive influence within their respective communities. Again, another positive reflection upon the Duke program which hopefully will grow in the upcoming years.

Cameron
03-13-2010, 11:03 AM
Collins and his head shake after a trey was easy to umm, not enjoy, but I always thought Wojo was extremely likeable. He was the little train that could. In a way he represented the common man. He showed that sometimes talent can be trumped by hustle, hard work, determination and desire. I don't see anything not to like, and he didn't seem to receive the hate from opponent fans that others have.


As they say, some peoples' trash is another person's treasure. Collins' heart, passion and swagger on the floor is what helped Duke Basketball return to glory in the mid '90s. There's a reason Coach K refers to Chris as Duke's "bridge to greatness." You don't become that type of talent without a little swagger.

That little head shake you reference was nothing compared to the on-court sashay of one J.J. Redick. I take it J.J. was easy to hate as well? I'd dare anyone who knows the competitive nature in which Chris is consumed by to tell him this, but I once heard someone refer to J.J. as "Chris Collins, only with talent." They were virtually the same player. It just so happened, however, that J.J. had a little more God-given talent.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 12:25 PM
We all know Duke is limited to its recruiting pool due to academic restraints as you mentioned. It just seems the past few years that this pool has included more white recruits and this just feeds the perception. And when you combine that with the misses of top targets such as Monroe, Boyton and PP to name a few and the LAX incidejnt, the perfect anti-Duke storm by the media and other schools grow and is promoted to other recruits. I don't know if Duke will ever be the "it" school amongst inner city black kids (growing up in NYC I saw a lot of UNLV and Michigan jerseys/hats back in the 90's here) but I can see a "perception" change coming in the upcoming years since there is a lot of positive feedback from Lebron, Kobe and Wade regarding Coach K and Nate assisting in a positive manner in the recruiting. The one major common denominator is that they are all young black men with a positive influence within their respective communities. Again, another positive reflection upon the Duke program which hopefully will grow in the upcoming years.

I gotta disagree slightly. Duke will never be the "it" school amongst inner city basketball players, a guy like Kyrie Irving happens once every 10 years to this program and it brings a lot of excitement with it.

The anti-Duke recruiting tactic is ignorant by other coaches and the media, there is nothing wrong with a school preparing you with a great education rather than for the NBA. If guys want to prepare themselves for the NBA only, Duke is not the place to go to.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 12:28 PM
Don't see Amaker having any shot at being Duke's coach when Coach K retires. Had 1 good year at Seton Hall and then did nothing at Michigan. It could be Dawkins but like you said he has to have success at Stanford. I disagree that Collins and Wojo would be disasters. Replacement talk is still probably 10+ years away and Nate and who knows maybe Carrawell could be established as the successor by then.

I would think Coach K would be interested in pushing his assistants to get coaching jobs if they are offered, they've had years of experience under him and the only way you can learn to be a HC is by being one. Thats why I think Dawkins left for the Stanford job, he's struggled recently but this is his opportunity to handle being in charge of a basketball program.

JohnGalt
03-13-2010, 12:33 PM
I gotta disagree slightly. Duke will never be the "it" school amongst inner city basketball players, a guy like Kyrie Irving happens once every 10 years to this program and it brings a lot of excitement with it.

once every 10 years excluding the '97-'01 years...

Franzez
03-13-2010, 12:40 PM
once every 10 years excluding the '97-'01 years...
Of course.

I think the early departures/controversy of those guys caused Coach K to back off on some of the inner city players for awhile other than Jason Williams.

Irving I think is going to bring some hype back to Duke, the perception of Duke in recent years has been of unathletic and undersized guards that never make it in the NBA.

JohnGalt
03-13-2010, 12:47 PM
Of course.

I think the early departures/controversy of those guys caused Coach K to back off on some of the inner city players for awhile other than Jason Williams.

Irving I think is going to bring some hype back to Duke, the perception of Duke in recent years has been of unathletic and undersized guards that never make it in the NBA.

You know, that's a good point. Do you know this for certain? Maggette definitely had allegations around him, likewise - academically - with Avery. Brand's letter didn't help. I've never thought of it like that, but I guess when you mention it, K very well might have backed off after at the very least, smelling the NCAA's breath.

diveonthefloor
03-13-2010, 01:07 PM
Of course.

I think the early departures/controversy of those guys caused Coach K to back off on some of the inner city players for awhile other than Jason Williams.


I am a little confused....didn't Jason go to an all boys college prep school, have a nearly straight A record, and win the Morgan Wooten award for achievements in the classroom and on the court? Wasn't he from a middle class suburb in New Jersey?

-jk
03-13-2010, 01:08 PM
I am a little confused....didn't Jason go to an all boys college prep school, have a nearly straight A record, and win the Morgan Wooten award for achievements in the classroom and on the court? Wasn't he from a middle class suburb in New Jersey?

Never let facts get in the way of a good thesis! ;)

-jk

JohnGalt
03-13-2010, 04:34 PM
Never let facts get in the way of a good thesis! ;)

-jk

I think that's what he meant by excluding JWill...

towerview road
03-13-2010, 04:45 PM
I am a little confused....didn't Jason go to an all boys college prep school?

Yep. St. Joe's. 70 acres, $10,000/year in tuition.


I am a little confused....didn't Jason have a nearly straight A record, and win the Morgan Wooten award for achievements in the classroom and on the court?

Absolutely. He played chess too.


I am a little confused....Wasn't he from a middle class suburb in New Jersey?

Sure was!

He grew up in Plainfield, New Jersey. Hmm. . .what's Plainfield like, you might ask? Well, this is an example of the homes there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:McGreevyPlainfieldHouse.jpg (that's former New Jersey governor McGreevy's home in Plainfield). And according to Wikipedia, this is what a "typical bungalow in Plainfield" looks like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bungalow_in_Plainfield,_New_Jersey.JPG

Famous Plainfield residents or natives, besides Jason, include Judy Blume (prolific and well-received author of books - you've probably read at least one of them!), George Clinton (Parliament Funkadelic), and Irving Penn (photographer).

So much for Jason being an "inner city" player. :rolleyes:
What's next? Someone going to describe Austin Rivers as inner city too? :rolleyes:

Franzez
03-13-2010, 09:38 PM
I think that's what he meant by excluding JWill...

Nevermind, dont worry its called the piling on effect.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 09:45 PM
Yep. St. Joe's. 70 acres, $10,000/year in tuition.



Absolutely. He played chess too.



Sure was!

He grew up in Plainfield, New Jersey. Hmm. . .what's Plainfield like, you might ask? Well, this is an example of the homes there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:McGreevyPlainfieldHouse.jpg (that's former New Jersey governor McGreevy's home in Plainfield). And according to Wikipedia, this is what a "typical bungalow in Plainfield" looks like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bungalow_in_Plainfield,_New_Jersey.JPG

Famous Plainfield residents or natives, besides Jason, include Judy Blume (prolific and well-received author of books - you've probably read at least one of them!), George Clinton (Parliament Funkadelic), and Irving Penn (photographer).

So much for Jason being an "inner city" player. :rolleyes:
What's next? Someone going to describe Austin Rivers as inner city too? :rolleyes:

You missed the point, and what do you think I mean by "inner city" player? Some ghetto kid covered in tatoos?:rolleyes:

Im talking about a kid from a basketball heavy/playground area with a reputation to their name before coming to Duke. Look at Duke's roster and even attempt to identify a player like that, none of those guys have that background or come from that type of area. This is why Im pumped for Irving, he could've gone anywhere else but chose Duke and he doesn't fit the perception of a Duke PG.

What do you really know about Plainfield other than your quick google search?

This is also Plainfield too:

http://img.house.info/27/27d2ddea4f0dc87821b6f3e1826cd024.jpg

You're making it out to be some sort of suburb filled with the elitists, when the city is clearly a working class town.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 09:47 PM
I am a little confused....didn't Jason go to an all boys college prep school, have a nearly straight A record, and win the Morgan Wooten award for achievements in the classroom and on the court? Wasn't he from a middle class suburb in New Jersey?

What does that have to do with anything?:)

He was a smart kid.

CDu
03-13-2010, 09:47 PM
I think that's what he meant by excluding JWill...

That's not the way I would have read that sentence. But if so, it was a pretty poorly-worded sentence, as it definitely seems to suggest he meant that Williams was an inner-city recruit.

But even so, I'm not sure I'd say that Coach K went away from recruiting inner-city kids as a response to Maggette/Brand/Avery leaving early. He recruited Dockery (definitely an inner-city kid from Chicago) and Ewing (who went to a predominantly African-American high school in Houston) right on the heels of the Brand/Avery/Maggette early departure.

JohnGalt
03-13-2010, 09:53 PM
That's not the way I would have read that sentence. But if so, it was a pretty poorly-worded sentence, as it definitely seems to suggest he meant that Williams was an inner-city recruit.

But even so, I'm not sure I'd say that Coach K went away from recruiting inner-city kids. He recruited Dockery (definitely an inner-city kid from Chicago) and Ewing (who went to a predominantly African-American high school in Houston) right on the heels of the Avery/Maggette early departure.

I'll pretend it was a hanging clause that could have been better used elsewhere...

I think it's a valid argument to make though that K has been more selective in his inner-city recruitment. How else can you explain the difference in recruits that have been coming into Duke over the last 6-8 years relative to the 5 years previous? I believe you could throw in Lance to the group, but other than him, Ewing, and Dockery the list looks pretty ivory...I know it's a taboo subject, but the discrepancy seems to be discernible, if not significant.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 09:56 PM
That's not the way I would have read that sentence. But if so, it was a pretty poorly-worded sentence, as it definitely seems to suggest he meant that Williams was an inner-city recruit.

But even so, I'm not sure I'd say that Coach K went away from recruiting inner-city kids as a response to Maggette/Brand/Avery leaving early. He recruited Dockery (definitely an inner-city kid from Chicago) and Ewing (who went to a predominantly African-American high school in Houston) right on the heels of the Brand/Avery/Maggette early departure.

Once again, inner city has nothing to do with being black and/or low class.:rolleyes:

Inner City has to do with having a reputation in the local basketball scene as a basketball player that allows for hype to build. Dockery nor Ewing had that when they came to Duke, neither did Redick, or even Paulus.

Irving is coming into Duke with legit hype, the multiple mixtapes of his highlights on Youtube, hes arguably the most hyped Duke recruit since Elton Brand. There are a lot of people checking for this kid once he steps foot on campus, puts on #1, and takes over at PG.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:00 PM
I'll pretend it was a hanging clause that could have been better used elsewhere...

I think it's a valid argument to make though that K has been more selective in his inner-city recruitment. How else can you explain the difference in recruits that have been coming into Duke over the last 6-8 years relative to the 5 years previous? I believe you could throw in Lance to the group, but other than him, Ewing, and Dockery the list looks pretty ivory...I know it's a taboo subject, but the discrepancy seems to be discernible, if not significant.

Hey man you're losing me here. Dont confuse inner city with African American recruits, they have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Ewing came to Duke from Texas where basketball is often overlooked despite him having a great career there he wasn't a player that Dickie V would boast about coming to Duke the following season because of his hype. Dickie V has mentioned Irving in each of his broadcasts for Duke, talking about how good Irving is and how hes going to get the ball from day 1. Thomas, and Dockery were good pickups and McDonalds All Americans but neither possed the hype of Irving from the same standpoint.

I cant remember ever being this pumped for a guy coming to Duke maybe since Brand or Hill. I wasn't even this pumped about Livingston despite his size and potential, I wasn't even this pumped about Deng or McBob despite their high rankings according to Rivals/Scout.

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:02 PM
I'll pretend it was a hanging clause that could have been better used elsewhere...

I think it's a valid argument to make though that K has been more selective in his inner-city recruitment. How else can you explain the difference in recruits that have been coming into Duke over the last 6-8 years relative to the 5 years previous? I believe you could throw in Lance to the group, but other than him, Ewing, and Dockery the list looks pretty ivory...I know it's a taboo subject, but the discrepancy seems to be discernible, if not significant.

Well, you're overlooking Livingston, Williams, Thompson, and Nelson as well. So it's not like we haven't recruited "non-ivory" players or inner-city type players.

And we recruited Brandan Wright, Greg Monroe and Patrick Patterson as well. We just didn't land them.

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:05 PM
Hey man you're losing me here. Dont confuse inner city with African American recruits, they have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Ewing came to Duke from Texas where basketball is often overlooked despite him having a great career there he wasn't a player that Dickie V would boast about coming to Duke the following season because of his hype. Dickie V has mentioned Irving in each of his broadcasts for Duke, talking about how good Irving is and how hes going to get the ball from day 1. Thomas, and Dockery were good pickups and McDonalds All Americans but neither possed the hype of Irving from the same standpoint.

I cant remember ever being this pumped for a guy coming to Duke maybe since Brand or Hill. I wasn't even this pumped about Livingston despite his size and potential, I wasn't even this pumped about Deng or McBob despite their high rankings according to Rivals/Scout.

Sounds like you're trying to refine the argument a bit here. Ewing came from inner-city Houston. Dockery came from inner-city Chicago. Nelson came from inner-city Oakland. Coach K didn't stop recruiting inner-city kids.

JohnGalt
03-13-2010, 10:05 PM
Once again, inner city has nothing to do with being black and/or low class.:rolleyes:

Inner City has to do with having a reputation in the local basketball scene as a basketball player that allows for hype to build. Dockery nor Ewing had that when they came to Duke, neither did Redick, or even Paulus.

Irving is coming into Duke with legit hype, the multiple mixtapes of his highlights on Youtube, hes arguably the most hyped Duke recruit since Elton Brand. There are a lot of people checking for this kid once he steps foot on campus, puts on #1, and takes over at PG.

Paulus was ranked #1 by Scout and McRoberts was ranked #2 by Rivals.How can you say "the most hype since Elton Brand"? Go read their breakdowns following the McD's Allstar game in '05. I'm not sure mixtapes = hype. I'd be willing to wager there are a gazillion mix tapes around for those that don't quite deserve it...Sebastian Telfair anyone?

Also, Chris Burgess was supposed to be the big recruit in that class, not Elton Brand.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:07 PM
Well, you're overlooking Livingston, Williams, Thompson, and Nelson as well. So it's not like we haven't recruited "non-ivory" players or inner-city type players.

And we recruited Brandan Wright, Greg Monroe and Patrick Patterson as well. We just didn't land them.

Once again, what does recruiting African American players have to do with recruiting inner city players?:rolleyes:

I think this is my 3rd post referencing this and you're still missing the point.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:08 PM
Sounds like you're trying to refine the argument a bit here. Ewing came from inner-city Houston. Dockery came from inner-city Chicago. Nelson came from inner-city Oakland. Coach K didn't stop recruiting inner-city kids.

None of those guys did, get your facts straight before you post.

Im sure you can pull up a tab to help your argument.

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:08 PM
Once again, inner city has nothing to do with being black and/or low class.:rolleyes:

Inner City has to do with having a reputation in the local basketball scene as a basketball player that allows for hype to build. Dockery nor Ewing had that when they came to Duke, neither did Redick, or even Paulus.

Irving is coming into Duke with legit hype, the multiple mixtapes of his highlights on Youtube, hes arguably the most hyped Duke recruit since Elton Brand. There are a lot of people checking for this kid once he steps foot on campus, puts on #1, and takes over at PG.

Nelson's from inner-city Oakland. Ewing is from inner-city Houston. Dockery is from inner-city Chicago. Those are about as inner-city as you get.

It seems like you're just making up a definition of inner-city. And your definition is... um... not very tangibly relevant.

Don't get me wrong. I'm psyched about getting Irving too.

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:13 PM
None of those guys did, get your facts straight before you post.

Im sure you can pull up a tab to help your argument.

Those guys were from as inner-city (or moreso) environments than Jason Williams.

They were not as hyped as Williams, but they were as inner-city as he was.

You seem to be confusing the concept of hype with inner-city.

JohnGalt
03-13-2010, 10:13 PM
Once again, what does recruiting African American players have to do with recruiting inner city players?:rolleyes:

I think this is my 3rd post referencing this and you're still missing the point.

Your point is that it's possible for there to be "white inner city recruits." I understand that. HOWEVER, I think that we can all agree they are few and far between. I know this is a taboo subject, but when talking about inner-city recruiting in a sport that is played predominantly by the black athlete, certain assumptions are made. It's racial, but not racist.

I 2nd that CDu...don't get me wrong...I'm counting down the days until Kyrie suits up...

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:16 PM
Paulus was ranked #1 by Scout and McRoberts was ranked #2 by Rivals.How can you say "the most hype since Elton Brand"? Go read their breakdowns following the McD's Allstar game in '05. I'm not sure mixtapes = hype. I'd be willing to wager there are a gazillion mix tapes around for those that don't quite deserve it...Sebastian Telfair anyone?
Thats the point.:)

You just backed up my entire argument while trying to attack it. Telfair had hype, Irving has hype, Coach K backed off the kids from the inner city after Brand/Maggette/Avery. What you missed in terms of what I mean by inner city is the hype that comes along with guys from areas that eat and sleep basketball. Mason Plumlee was a higher ranked recruit than Lance Stephenson, Lance Stephenson is one of the most hyped recruits out of NYC ever. Taymon Domzalski was a higher rated recruit than God Shammgod, God Shammgod came into college with amazing hype.


Im not trying to criticize you Im just pointing out you're not able to understand what Im saying.




Also, Chris Burgess was supposed to be the big recruit in that class, not Elton Brand.

What a joke. Nobody cared about Chris Burgess. Was he a highly ranked recruit? Yes. Did he come in with undeniable hype where everyone is waiting to see what he does? No.

Brand did.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:19 PM
Your point is that it's possible for there to be "white inner city recruits." I understand that. HOWEVER, I think that we can all agree they are few and far between. I know this is a taboo subject, but when talking about inner-city recruiting in a sport that is played predominantly by the black athlete, certain assumptions are made. It's racial, but not racist.

I 2nd that CDu...don't get me wrong...I'm counting down the days until Kyrie suits up...

I understand that notion but I can think of a Duke white "inner city" recruits that had hype to them.

Wojo, hes still a legend here in Baltimore. He was a guy that people got to see play here, and were pumped to see what he could do at the college ranks.

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:19 PM
What a joke. Nobody cared about Chris Burgess. Was he a highly ranked recruit? Yes. Did he come in with undeniable hype where everyone is waiting to see what he does? No.

Brand did.

You're 100% wrong here. I was a freshman at Duke the year that Burgess and Brand came in. Burgess was as hyped coming in as Brand. Trust me. Brand very quickly proved to be the better player, but both had very similar levels of hype coming in.

Also, I'm failing to see what the "inner-city hype" thing has to do with Maggette/Avery leaving. Maggette was a guy who shot onto the scene after arriving (he wasn't super-hyped), and Avery was the least-hyped of the super class of 1997. It's not holding to a very tight "inner-city" concept. Seems like them leaving would not have caused Coach K to go away from inner-city kids, since neither was that hyped, right?

JohnGalt
03-13-2010, 10:21 PM
Thats the point.:)Mason Plumlee was a higher ranked recruit than Lance Stephenson, Lance Stephenson is one of the most hyped recruits out of NYC ever.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but that's wrong. Check the Final RSCI for 2009. Perhaps then that we differ in our interpretation of hype as I prefer to believe the ones who provide hype professionally in the form of Scout, Rivals, et al (admittedly, they are often wrong) and it seems you prefer to believe the homemade youtube videos type...

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:25 PM
Those guys were from as inner-city (or moreso) environments than Jason Williams.

They were not as hyped as Williams, but they were as inner-city as he was.

You seem to be confusing the concept of hype with inner-city.

Nope. Hype and Inner-City go hand in hand, thats what you're missing.

Nelson was California's All-Time Leading scorer before Taylor King broke his record, was he a player that had a buzz about him as being "the next" guy from The Bay to make it big? No.

Ewing played with TJ Ford in High School. TJ Ford came into Texas with a lot of hype and is still mentioned among the legends in the Houston area that produces NBA prospects yearly. Ewing unfortunately played 2nd fiddle to that.

Do you see the point now?

Let me try to break it down even further, When people think of Houston basketball will they rattle off Daniel Ewing's name? I doubt it.
When people think of Oakland basketball will they rattle of Demarcus Nelson's name after the likes of Payton, Hook, & Kidd? I doubt it.

When people think of New Jersey basketball they will mention Jason Williams before or after Dajuan Wagner, and eventually Kyrie Irving has a chance to have his name with those guys.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:28 PM
I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but that's wrong. Check the Final RSCI for 2009. Perhaps then that we differ in our interpretation of hype as I prefer to believe the ones who provide hype professionally in the form of Scout, Rivals, et al (admittedly, they are often wrong) and it seems you prefer to believe the homemade youtube videos type...

Its not about homemade youtube videos. Rivals/Scout/ESPN don't provide hype, what provides hype is the number of people talking about these guys in their area and nationally. Espescially when a recruit is coming out of a basketball rich area with a heavy tradition. When you get that "next" tag after your name.

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:33 PM
Nope. Hype and Inner-City go hand in hand, thats what you're missing.

oooooooookay.


Nelson was California's All-Time Leading scorer before Taylor King broke his record, was he a player that had a buzz about him as being "the next" guy from The Bay to make it big? No.

Ewing played with TJ Ford in High School. TJ Ford came into Texas with a lot of hype and is still mentioned among the legends in the Houston area that produces NBA prospects yearly. Ewing unfortunately played 2nd fiddle to that.

Do you see the point now?

Let me try to break it down even further, When people think of Houston basketball will they rattle off Daniel Ewing's name? I doubt it.
When people think of Oakland basketball will they rattle of Demarcus Nelson's name after the likes of Payton, Hook, & Kidd? I doubt it.

When people think of New Jersey basketball they will mention Jason Williams before or after Dajuan Wagner, and eventually Kyrie Irving has a chance to have his name with those guys.

Wow. This is... um... interesting. So it has nothing to do with inner-city at all, but how super-awesome hyped they were coming out of high school. And you can only be super-awesome-hyped if you happened to be from an inner-city environment (unless you're Jason Williams, even though Williams may or may not have been super-hyped). Got it.

At least we can agree that we're excited to have Irving coming next year.

JohnGalt
03-13-2010, 10:34 PM
I wonder if perhaps we could come full circle with this debate...Was Nate James from the inner-city? Was he hyped?


Alas, we have digressed..

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:34 PM
Its not about homemade youtube videos. Rivals/Scout/ESPN don't provide hype, what provides hype is the number of people talking about these guys in their area and nationally. Espescially when a recruit is coming out of a basketball rich area with a heavy tradition. When you get that "next" tag after your name.

And hype is largely irrelevant. Being a good player is what's relevant. I think you might be overstating the hype about Jason Williams, and he was pretty awesome. Battier certainly wasn't hyped, and he was pretty awesome. Same for Redick.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-13-2010, 10:35 PM
I don't really see how Hype and inner city go hand and hand. (I.e Harrison Barnes)

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:37 PM
I wonder if perhaps we could come full circle with this debate...Was Nate James from the inner-city? Was he hyped?


Alas, we have digressed..

I think we made a mistake in getting in this argument with a moving target. This started (for me) with the argument that Coach K stopped recruiting inner-city kids because of Avery/Maggette/Brand leaving early. But the reality is that we have recruited inner-city kids. Then it became that inner-city represented hype, even though Avery and Maggette weren't really hyped. Yeesh. Oh well.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:37 PM
You're 100% wrong here. I was a freshman at Duke the year that Burgess and Brand came in. Burgess was as hyped coming in as Brand. Trust me. Brand very quickly proved to be the better player, but both had very similar levels of hype coming in.

Also, I'm failing to see what the "inner-city hype" thing has to do with Maggette/Avery leaving. Maggette was a guy who shot onto the scene after arriving (he wasn't super-hyped), and Avery was the least-hyped of the super class of 1997. It's not holding to a very tight "inner-city" concept. Seems like them leaving would not have caused Coach K to go away from inner-city kids, since neither was that hyped, right?
Really? I knew of Chris Burgess but didn't really come away impressed by him. You could lump him in with McRoberts, and a few others who didn't live up to their high school production.

I think the negative attention that came along with those guys is what caused Coach K to switch his focus, for about 4 years between 1997-2001 Duke was the "it" team based upon their NBA level talent and the variation of guys from multiple different areas. It wasn't like the Duke teams of Wojo, McLeod & Capel. These were legit talented guys in the program, with the likes of Brand & Maggette coming from inner city rich areas along with their AAU success.

Maybe the Myron Piggie thing scared Coach K off and he didn't want Duke to be viewed as a NBA Prep team or have anybody question the legitimacy of Duke basketball and then began to focus on guys who were 4 years players. Heck, it took him 10+ years to once again target an athletic wing guard over 6'5. I'd be pumped if we do bring in Felix.

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:38 PM
I don't really see how Hype and inner city go hand and hand. (I.e Harrison Barnes)

I'm beginning to realize that it's best not to point out flaws in the logic. The argument will just change a little bit.

But you're right.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:40 PM
I don't really see how Hype and inner city go hand and hand. (I.e Harrison Barnes)

Walk into The Dome in East Baltimore or Rucker Park in NYC and ask anybody with their ear to the basketball scene about Harrison Barnes. Nobody knows who this kid is outside of those who know about internet recruiting databases, he was a relative unknown until this summer when he grew 2 inches and started putting together good performances against good AAU squads.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:42 PM
And hype is largely irrelevant. Being a good player is what's relevant. I think you might be overstating the hype about Jason Williams, and he was pretty awesome. Battier certainly wasn't hyped, and he was pretty awesome. Same for Redick.

Hype isn't irrelevant. Hype gets you remembered aswell.

God Shammgod is still a legend in NYC, Skip Wise is still a legend in Baltimore, Jaron Rush is still a legend in Kansas City basketball, Dajuan Wagner is still a legend in terms of NJ basketball, etc. These guys didn't really amount to much in their college/NBA careers due to things beyond their control but they still are discussed when talking about the local basketball scene.

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:42 PM
Really? I knew of Chris Burgess but didn't really come away impressed by him. You could lump him in with McRoberts, and a few others who didn't live up to their high school production.

Yes, he was absolutely as hyped, if not moreso than Brand.


I think the negative attention that came along with those guys is what caused Coach K to switch his focus, for about 4 years between 1997-2001 Duke was the "it" team based upon their NBA level talent and the variation of guys from multiple different areas. It wasn't like the Duke teams of Wojo, McLeod & Capel. These were legit talented guys in the program, with the likes of Brand & Maggette coming from inner city rich areas along with their AAU success.

Maybe the Myron Piggie thing scared Coach K off and he didn't want Duke to be viewed as a NBA Prep team or have anybody question the legitimacy of Duke basketball and then began to focus on guys who were 4 years players. Heck, it took him 10+ years to once again target an athletic wing guard over 6'5. I'd be pumped if we do bring in Felix.

Duke recruited guys with the NBA "it" factor. Randolph was a "sure-fire" NBA guy. So was McRoberts. Livingston and Deng were definitely NBA players (and Livingston was the athletic 6'5"+ wing we've missed).

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:43 PM
Hype isn't irrelevant. Hype gets you remembered aswell.

God Shammgod is still a legend in NYC, Skip Wise is still a legend in Baltimore, Dajuan Wagner is still a legend in terms of NJ basketball, etc.

It's irrelevant to Duke's success. I don't care if people on the streets remember Shammgod or Wise or Wagner. Those guys didn't get their teams squat. So, yes, it's irrelevant.

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:44 PM
Walk into The Dome in East Baltimore or Rucker Park in NYC and ask anybody with their ear to the basketball scene about Harrison Barnes. Nobody knows who this kid is outside of those who know about internet recruiting databases, he was a relative unknown until this summer when he grew 2 inches and started putting together good performances against good AAU squads.

Who cares what the people of Rucker Park or The Dome think?

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:49 PM
oooooooookay.



Wow. This is... um... interesting. So it has nothing to do with inner-city at all, but how super-awesome hyped they were coming out of high school. And you can only be super-awesome-hyped if you happened to be from an inner-city environment (unless you're Jason Williams, even though Williams may or may not have been super-hyped). Got it.

At least we can agree that we're excited to have Irving coming next year.

Im glad it took this long for you to see my point, I dont think you understand but thats not your fault, you haven't been covering basketball for 12 years primarily in the inner city like I have. We just see things from 2 different viewpoints.

Of course there are guys who have hype behind them from random places that aren't really "basketball rich" like Carmel,Indiana or Roanoke,Virginia. Thats based on nothing more than their high school production rather than their game. What I mean by "inner city recruit" is in terms of a guy who is respected as a player in the "inner city" based upon their skillset along with the hype they have for it.


This has nothing to do with race, This has nothing to do with economic class, but this has to do with basketball.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-13-2010, 10:49 PM
Walk into The Dome in East Baltimore or Rucker Park in NYC and ask anybody with their ear to the basketball scene about Harrison Barnes. Nobody knows who this kid is outside of those who know about internet recruiting databases, he was a relative unknown until this summer when he grew 2 inches and started putting together good performances against good AAU squads.

Okay but I'm from NY, and I can assure you no one from my "hood" knew who Brandon Jennings was, (inner city kid) except for maybe one or two other people, who like you said about HB went on internet recruiting sites.


But honesty i would love to see J-Will as a Duke coach helping out with recruiting.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:52 PM
It's irrelevant to Duke's success. I don't care if people on the streets remember Shammgod or Wise or Wagner. Those guys didn't get their teams squat. So, yes, it's irrelevant.
OK.

Like I mentioned before, we see basketball from different views. Heres another example.

Im the type of person who reads SLAM, you seem like the type who reads Sports Illustrated. Its all basketball, but from 2 different lights.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:54 PM
Okay but I'm from NY, and I can assure you no one from my "hood" knew who Brandon Jennings was, (inner city kid) except for maybe one or two other people, who like you said about HB went on internet recruiting sites.


Brandon was from LA and was at Oak Hill in the middle of Virginia.

I actually didnt know he had become so good until I saw him being ranked so highly by Rivals, my only memory of him was seeing him as a Uconn lean due to being Marcus Williams' cousin, and then watching him cry after Oak Hill lost to Simeon on ESPN.

What about Lance Stephenson?

CDu
03-13-2010, 10:55 PM
Im the type of person who reads SLAM, you seem like the type who reads Sports Illustrated.

That about sums it up. I definitely had you pegged for a Slam reader.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 10:58 PM
That about sums it up. I definitely had you pegged for a Slam reader.
:D

I had you pegged down earlier aswell. Im thinking to myself reading your posts like "Really, Chris Burgess more hyped than Brand? Really?:confused: ". Where was I at when this was going on? lol

Anyways of course being a good player at each level you reach helps to build your legend even more, theres no debating that. Telfair had incredible hype and he still hasn't lived up to it in the NBA, but in terms of the legend of NYC PG's his name comes up with Marbury, God & Kenny Anderson.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-13-2010, 11:01 PM
Brandon was from LA and was at Oak Hill in the middle of Virginia.

I actually didnt know he had become so good until I saw him being ranked so highly by Rivals, my only memory of him was seeing him as a Uconn lean due to being Marcus Williams' cousin, and then watching him cry after Oak Hill lost to Simeon on ESPN.

What about Lance Stephenson?

Lance Stephenson is from NY and lived in NY so of course his name is going to be mentioned in NY, but you said inner city, so i assumed you were talking about kids from LA, DC, Philly etc. being overhyped nationally. Still Brandon is that type of player who with his skill set get's mention alot on playgrounds around the U.S.

CDu
03-13-2010, 11:04 PM
:D

I had you pegged down earlier aswell. Im thinking to myself reading your posts like "Really, Chris Burgess more hyped than Brand? Really?:confused: ". Where was I at when this was going on? lol

Well, I'm not sure you could really say from any perspective other than from Brand's hometown that he was more hyped than Burgess coming into Duke. Dude was a star in high school. I think you may be "misremembering" on Brand a little bit based on what you saw from him at Duke.


Anyways of course being a good player at each level you reach helps to build your legend even more, theres no debating that. Telfair had incredible hype and he still hasn't lived up to it in the NBA, but in terms of the legend of NYC PG's his name comes up with Marbury, God & Kenny Anderson.

Yeah, and I just really don't care about someone's "legend" status. We've had plenty of success with guys who weren't hyped coming into college. And success is all I care about. If Irving can add to Duke's success, that's all I care about. Let him be hyped or not.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 11:07 PM
Well, I'm not sure you could really say from any perspective other than from Brand's hometown that he was more hyped than Burgess coming into Duke. Dude was a star in high school. I think you may be "misremembering" on Brand a little bit based on what you saw from him at Duke.



Yeah, and I just really don't care about someone's "legend" status. We've had plenty of success with guys who weren't hyped coming into college. And success is all I care about. If Irving can add to Duke's success, that's all I care about. Let him be hyped or not.

No arguments from me, thats just your opinion.

Franzez
03-13-2010, 11:12 PM
Lance Stephenson is from NY and lived in NY so of course his name is going to be mentioned in NY, but you said inner city, so i assumed you were talking about kids from LA, DC, Philly etc. being overhyped nationally. Still Brandon is that type of player who with his skill set get's mention alot on playgrounds around the U.S.

Thats an entirely different discussion about West Coast players and where they fall in line. LA is basketball rich no doubt, but the guy with the most hype in Cali at that time obviously was DeRozan, not Jennings.

Jennings transfered to Oak Hill after his Sophmore year. Jennings would come back to Cali in the summer with the SoCal All Stars with him, Taylor King, Kevin Love and Malik Story. Even Hackett, although he wasnt as noticed.

Playing AAU ball Nationally with a Socal team didn't get him the deserved recognition at home.

NashvilleDevil
03-13-2010, 11:15 PM
:D

I had you pegged down earlier aswell. Im thinking to myself reading your posts like "Really, Chris Burgess more hyped than Brand? Really?:confused: ". Where was I at when this was going on? lol

Anyways of course being a good player at each level you reach helps to build your legend even more, theres no debating that. Telfair had incredible hype and he still hasn't lived up to it in the NBA, but in terms of the legend of NYC PG's his name comes up with Marbury, God & Kenny Anderson.

CDu is right on Burgess. The hype around him was huge when he came to Duke. I remember
reading the old juliovision site and he definitely came in with the most hype of that class.

As for your list of NYC legends your credibility is shot because anyone would put Skip to My Lou over God Shammgod.

JohnGalt
03-13-2010, 11:20 PM
CDu is right on Burgess. The hype around him was huge when he came to Duke. I remember
reading the old juliovision site and he definitely came in with the most hype of that class.

Give up, Franzez. Our memories outnumber your memory...

Indoor66
03-14-2010, 09:10 AM
OK.

Like I mentioned before, we see basketball from different views. Heres another example.

Im the type of person who reads SLAM, you seem like the type who reads Sports Illustrated. Its all basketball, but from 2 different lights.

Sounds like too much watching of "White Men Can't Jump."

davekay1971
03-14-2010, 09:22 AM
I wonder if perhaps we could come full circle with this debate...Was Nate James from the inner-city? Was he hyped?


Alas, we have digressed..

Valiant attempt to get the thread back on track. Alas, the debate about NYC hype vs professional recruiting rankings proved too strong. However, I feel so much better for the education I've received on the value of hype.

Nate James: U Got Game