cutlery

[orthodevil]

As a first time poster, probably a weird topic...oh, well. My wife and I are contemplating buying a high end set of knives. Do any of you guys have suggestions for brands that you have been happy with? We were looking at Cutco, but while searching on the internet, there were some dramatic differences of opinion. Any thoughts on Henckel or Wusthof?

By the way, just wanted to say how much I have enjoyed watching this year's team develop. Four months ago, I texted my younger brother (also Duke grad) and said that Brian Zoubek was my least favorite Duke player of all time. I must say, I have done a complete 180. He has now become one of my favorites and I am really going to miss him next year (NEVER thought I would say that)! I can't remember the last time I've looked this forward to watching a team compete in the tournament, and I have lived and died with the Devils for a long time.

[DukeUsul]

I wouldn't buy Cutco. They're made of a softer steel (440A) than the higher end knives (440C steel). They're also made by stamping, while everything but the lower-end Henckel's and Wusthof knives are actually forged. And because Cutco's are almost all serrated, you can't sharpen them yourself. I have a set of the Henckel's Professional "S" knives. I love em. You can't go wrong with any of the Henckel's or Wusthof knives.

Interesting that you post this since I just had a Cutco salesman in my house trying to sell me. I pulled out my Henckel's and outdid every demo she did with her Cutcos - except her knives were really good at cutting through a 3/4" thick rope. Mainly because they were serrated and all mine are straight-edge. But who is going to cut rope with kitchen knives?

She wanted me to trade in mine for a $200 credit toward her $1000 set. Hah! As if.

[Johnboy]

You can't go wrong with any of the Henckel's or Wusthof knives.


I don't know about Wusthof, but years ago we had a set of Henckels that were disappointing - they were bottom of the line, no doubt. Purchased at Costco (well, back then it was Price Club). Our theory is that they were "outlet quality (http://reviews.ebay.com/Psst-That-outlet-item-may-not-be-the-same-quality_W0QQugidZ10000000002659036)" made specifically for cheapskates like us. Spend the money and get the good stuff.

[DevilAlumna]

I wouldn't buy Cutco. They're made of a softer steel (440A) than the higher end knives (440C steel). They're also made by stamping, while everything but the lower-end Henckel's and Wusthof knives are actually forged. And because Cutco's are almost all serrated, you can't sharpen them yourself. I have a set of the Henckel's Professional "S" knives. I love em. You can't go wrong with any of the Henckel's or Wusthof knives.


+1 for the Henckel's Professional "S" knives. I have an 8" santoku-like knife that I use for EVERYTHING, from paring/peeling to fine chopping to light butchering. Sure, you may pay more per knife, but if you only need one....

[Jim3k]

+1 for the Henckel's Professional "S" knives. I have an 8" santoku-like knife that I use for EVERYTHING, from paring/peeling to fine chopping to light butchering. Sure, you may pay more per knife, but if you only need one....

Big Wusthof fan here. All our kitchen knives, 2 including 2 8-inch butcher, 2 serrated (bread and sausage) and a full set of steak knives. Also a couple of others. Look for them at Macy's or Bed, Bath and Beyond. Rarely on sale.

For really high end stuff, there is a New Yorker article from last summer you should read. Not going to take the time to hunt for it, but I recommend it anyway.

[dukeforester]

We are also big Wusthof fans. Have the full Classic series from chefs knife to steak knives. Best knives we have ever owned and should last a lifetime. Purchased the main kitchen set with the wood storage block off ebay at a decent price, much lower than we saw at retail stores and outlet malls. Can't go wrong with this Wusthof series.

[weezie]

I love my Global knives. Great heft, good feel. Very expensive but worth every penny.
Take the time to learn how to keep them sharp and get them professionally sharpened once/twice a year.
Fantastic tools for a cook.
Wustoff serrated for bread cutting, though.

I prefer a magnetic strip to hang them on over a wood block. Better for the blades, I'm told.

[DukeUsul]

I don't know about Wusthof, but years ago we had a set of Henckels that were disappointing - they were bottom of the line, no doubt. Purchased at Costco (well, back then it was Price Club). Our theory is that they were "outlet quality (http://reviews.ebay.com/Psst-That-outlet-item-may-not-be-the-same-quality_W0QQugidZ10000000002659036)" made specifically for cheapskates like us. Spend the money and get the good stuff.

You probably had one of their entry level lines, which, agreed, aren't all that great. They are mostly stamped blades, not forged. The good Henckels knives are any of their "Zwilling" knives.... the "Twins." The good knives have two of the little dudes on them, while the cheaper Henckels knives have only one dude on them.

JA Henckels International (single dude):
http://www.j-a-henckels.com/img/henckels/head/logo.gif
http://www.j-a-henckels.com/en-US/Sortiment--sortiment/Cutlery--knives.html

Zwilling JA Henckels (Twins):
http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens1401883module7901962photo_twin-logo.jpg
http://www.zwilling.com/en-US/Product-Range--sortiment/Cutlery--knives.html

[CLT Devil]

Wustoff-

The main thing these knives, as well as Henkels, have over Cutco is they have a very high grade of steel. Most of the Wustoff blades stay sharp for a long time, but more importantly you can get them sharp again with a simple rod sharpener, whereas you have to have Cutco knives professionally sharpened. A knife blade has little teeth on the blade, even the smooth bladed ones, and these teeth get all out of whack...as in the blade gets dull. Fortunately the higher the grade of steel the easier it is to re-align these teeth and get the blade sharp again. Cutco has serrations that are near impossible to sharpen at home.

The only Cutco knife I still use has an oval shaped blade that is sharp and serrated enough to cut a bagel in half, and has enough surface to spread cream-cheese or what have you on it. Other than that, a Santoku, small paring knife and perhaps a boning/filet knife are all you need. Use those three, give them a quick sharpen before and after you use them and store them in their woodbox, or use a magnet like I do.

If you get a set of steak knives I would go wit the kind that has the very fine serrations on it, which is good to cut through medium-rare meat and aren't typically used enough to go dull. Straight edge blades have to be very sharp to easily cut through meat...say politely at T-Giving dinner.

One more thing...never, under ny circumstances put your knives through the dishwasher...that's the fastest way to ruin a blade. Go with Wustoff, minimal amount of knives...and have happy chopping.

[DukieInKansas]

I love my Global knives. Great heft, good feel. Very expensive but worth every penny.
Take the time to learn how to keep them sharp and get them professionally sharpened once/twice a year.
Fantastic tools for a cook.
Wustoff serrated for bread cutting, though.

I prefer a magnetic strip to hang them on over a wood block. Better for the blades, I'm told.

Another option - if your wood block has the up and down slots, put the knives in upside down so the blade faces up.

[BD80]

...never, under any circumstances put your knives through the dishwasher...that's the fastest way to ruin a blade. Go with Wustoff, minimal amount of knives...and have happy chopping.

OK I'll bite. Why does a dishwasher ruin knife blades?

[DukeUsul]

I would recommend trying out the knives before you buy. The feel and heft of the blade in your hand makes such a huge difference. I like the idea of my Santoku knife, but I find that the handle is actually too narrow for my large hands. I don't have the control over it that I like. So I tend to fall back on my 8" chef's knife for so much work, just because it fits better in my hand.

[Bluedog]

Wusthof. Personally, I only use one or two knives for virtually everything (8" Chef's knife being one of them), so I think it makes sense to have a set of decent but not great knives for a lot cheaper (a la KitchenAid or something) and then buy two really good knives. Saves a lot of money. But if money isn't that grave of a concern or you want a nice complete set, I'd go with Wustof.

I'll also through out another not as typical suggestion out there - ceramic knives. They are INCREDIBLY sharp and stay that way; they better, since you can't sharpen them yourselves. They are great for cutting veggies and boneless meats (a bone WILL crack it, though, so you can't use it on everything). You can get a two piece Santoku and Paring set from Kyocera on Amazon for about $80...Something to look at, at least.

http://www.amazon.com/Kyocera-Revolution-2-Piece-Paring-Santoku/dp/B00170X2U2/ref=wr_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=IAQVNO748DFGC&colid=3TG37W6TPI2P2 (http://www.amazon.com/Kyocera-Revolution-2-Piece-Paring-Santoku/dp/B00170X2U2/ref=wr_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=IAQVNO748DFGC&colid=3TG37W6TPI2P2)

[cato]

A lot of love for the German knives on this board, huh? I found the Shun knives to be a better fit for me. Ultimately, I agree that you have to handle the knives before you buy them to find the ones that feel best in your hands.

[Jim3k]

Big Wusthof fan here. All our kitchen knives, 2 including 2 8-inch butcher, 2 serrated (bread and sausage) and a full set of steak knives. Also a couple of others. Look for them at Macy's or Bed, Bath and Beyond. Rarely on sale.

For really high end stuff, there is a New Yorker article from last summer you should read. Not going to take the time to hunt for it, but I recommend it anyway.

Ooh. Forgot about the Wusthof serrated tomato knife. Wonderful.

[allenmurray]

Years ago (32 years ago to be precise) I worked in a grocery store. I remember asking the butcher (the store had a "real" butcher shop within it) what kind of knives they used. He gave me one of his knives - a fairly inexpensive model (made by Chicago Cutlery) with a plastic non-slip handle. I still use it daily 30 years later. I've had some really good (expensive) knives that haven't liked nearly as much. It's shape and balance are great and the ugly plastic non-slip handle is great as well.

My suggestion would be to go to a butcher shop and ask them what kind of knives they use.

Edit - after a quick read I have found out that the company that made Chicago Cutlery for commercial purposes was sold and the name was bought by another manufacturer. They no longer make commerical knives, and aparantly the one I have is a relic of a by-gone era. That being said, I still think you can't go wrong with the advice of going to a bucher shop (or restaurant) and asking them what they use. Someone who works with one in their hand all day, and who's livelihood depends on their tools, is probably going to be your best source of advice.

[CLT Devil]

OK I'll bite. Why does a dishwasher ruin knife blades?

The blades of the knives can come in contact with other silverware as well as whatever else is in the DW. This will not dull the whole blade, but does cause small inperfections in the knife that add up over time. More importantly, detergents can be tough on the blades and you get things like water stains. You also don't want to soak the handle, especially if wood, in water like it does on the soak portion of a wash. Overall, can dent blades, makes them dull and also can damage the handle.

This is only if you work with very sharp knives, not your everyday kitchen knives or even serrated knives.

I just cook dinner about every knight, and have a friend who worked in a butcher shopr for years and now is a chef...I try to glean what I can.

[diablesseblu]

Another big Wusthof fan here. You can find them at a discount over the web.

And yes, their tomato knife is a must have.

[DukeUsul]

Wusthof. Personally, I only use one or two knives for virtually everything (8" Chef's knife being one of them), so I think it makes sense to have a set of decent but not great knives for a lot cheaper (a la KitchenAid or something) and then buy two really good knives. Saves a lot of money. But if money isn't that grave of a concern or you want a nice complete set, I'd go with Wustof.


Agreed. I have two sets of Henckels cheap lines in knife blocks on the counter (one straight-edged, one serrated). I let our company use these. My good knives are stored, with edge guards on them, in the drawer. Henckels Professional "S" 8" Chef, 7" santoku, 8" carving, 4" utility and a 3" paring knife. And really, those five nice knives are two too many. I really only use three of them.

[DukeUsul]

Ooh. Forgot about the Wusthof serrated tomato knife. Wonderful.

Eh. Who needs a serrated tomato knife if you just keeps your blades sharp?

[hughgs]

As a first time poster, probably a weird topic...oh, well. My wife and I are contemplating buying a high end set of knives. Do any of you guys have suggestions for brands that you have been happy with? We were looking at Cutco, but while searching on the internet, there were some dramatic differences of opinion. Any thoughts on Henckel or Wusthof?

By the way, just wanted to say how much I have enjoyed watching this year's team develop. Four months ago, I texted my younger brother (also Duke grad) and said that Brian Zoubek was my least favorite Duke player of all time. I must say, I have done a complete 180. He has now become one of my favorites and I am really going to miss him next year (NEVER thought I would say that)! I can't remember the last time I've looked this forward to watching a team compete in the tournament, and I have lived and died with the Devils for a long time.

My views are mostly from a woodworking perspective where sharp is (supposedly) the norm.

First, make sure you get forged, non-serrated, full tang blades. Second, don't worry too much about the handle material. Plastic can crack while wood and moisture are not the best of friends, so they each have their minuses. But, what's important is to make sure that the handle and the weight of the knife feels comfortable in your hand.

Third, learn to sharpen your knives. The idea is to get two flat surfaces that meet at the edge of the blade. People will tell you that you need to have them professionally sharpened, just ignore them. The secret is to lock your wrist to keep a consistent angle between the blade and the rod. You want a fairly small angle, maybe 10-15 degrees on each side. The resultant 20 - 30 degree angle is a good compromise between the number of cuts and the sharpness of the blade. If you always do a quick hone (five seconds or so) before you use the knives, you'll get practice sharpening and you'll ensure that the blades don't get dull.

As far, as the dishwasher is concerned , just make sure that the blades don't hit other objects and you should be OK. If you're worried about getting wooden handles wet then just hand wash, it only takes a couple of seconds.

I should also add that if you have a set of knives that are relatively old and dull you can bring them back to life by simply spending a few minutes, rather than a few seconds, sharpening the blades before each use. It takes a little while to get them like new but if you like the feel of the old blades, it's a cheap method

[sue71, esq]

I don't know about Wusthof, but years ago we had a set of Henckels that were disappointing - they were bottom of the line, no doubt. Purchased at Costco (well, back then it was Price Club). Our theory is that they were "outlet quality (http://reviews.ebay.com/Psst-That-outlet-item-may-not-be-the-same-quality_W0QQugidZ10000000002659036)" made specifically for cheapskates like us. Spend the money and get the good stuff.


We are also big Wusthof fans. Have the full Classic series from chefs knife to steak knives. Best knives we have ever owned and should last a lifetime. Purchased the main kitchen set with the wood storage block off ebay at a decent price, much lower than we saw at retail stores and outlet malls. Can't go wrong with this Wusthof series.

I have a set of Henckels with a block I got at Macys about 10 years ago. I don't love them. They're honestly eh.

During the holiday season in 2008, I bought a Wusthof Classic Santoku knife (with sharpener). I love it. Seriously. It's. The. Best. Knife. I've. Ever. Used. I also got a Wusthof block with kitchen shears and something else... Anyway, I've found *amazing* knife (specifically Wusthof) deals during the holiday season at Sur La Table and Williams Sonoma (where I got mine from).

I have to admit, though, I do covet the Shun knives.

[orthodevil]

Just wanted to say thank you guys for all of the responses. I didn't know there were so many chefs in the Duke community. If any of you would be interested in cooking me dinner with either your Henckel or Wusthof knives, let me know.

[weezie]

Oh sure! Just don't invite weezie and her Globals! :cool:

[BD80]

Oh sure! Just don't invite weezie and her Globals! :cool:

Sounds like something Pam Anderson might say!

[Indoor66]

Sounds like something Pam Anderson might say!

We might have to call PPB on this one! :eek:

[weezie]

Sounds like something Pam Anderson might say!


Wiiiiise guy, ehhhhhhhh?

[BD80]

Wiiiiise guy, ehhhhhhhh?

What, me??? :D


It is like the psychiatric patient who responded to each Rorschach inkblot by naming a sexual act or position. The doctor sighed and concluded that the patient was seriously disturbed. To which the patient responded: "Me? You're the one with all the dirty pictures!"