All-ACC: Jon and Kyle 1st team, Nolan 2nd team, Lance defense

[JBDuke]

Here's the link: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/scheyer-singler-make-all-acc-team-unc-shut-out

Jon and Kyle on the first team, Nolan on the second team. Lance makes Defensive team. And no Heels anywhere to be found.

[CDu]

Yep. Here's the link: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/scheyer-singler-make-all-acc-team-unc-shut-out

Jon and Kyle on the first team, Nolan on the second team. Lance makes Defensive team. And no Heels anywhere to be found.

I think the voters did a pretty good job this year.

[airowe]

I think the voters did a pretty good job this year.

I agree. Its hard to argue with any of the picks. There was some chatter about Zoubs moving onto the 3rd team. Wonder how many votes he got...

[tommy]

Why should the award be shared? It dilutes the value of the award. Scheyer had an outstanding year, but GV edged him out, especially in conference play. Can you really make the case that GV shouldn't get the nod?

You can if you count defense. You can do lots of things with offensive stats to demonstrate any number of points in either direction. What is not really seriously debatable is that Scheyer is a far better defender than Vasquez. Even in the recent Duke-Maryland game, Vasquez was beaten repeatedly. Of course the announcers don't mention such minor issues, but there it was. If the two guys are essentially even on offensive stats, their teams tied for the conference championship (regular season) and one guy is way better on defense, that should decide it. But then again, Scheyer has never gotten credit for his defensive play over the years, and Vasquez has never been called out on his, so why would announcers and reporters start now?

[Kedsy]

Three Smiths on the 2nd team. I think Aminu and Landesberg should change their name to "Smith" to keep things easy.

[Kdogg]

And no Heels anywhere to be found.

They are the only team not represented. Ten teams had a least one member on one of the All-ACC squads and Miami has a All-ACC rookie.

[Wander]

Assist to turnover ratio is the most important stat and he clearly is light years ahead of Vasquez in that category.

This is a digression, but I don't know how you can justify the above statement. Assist/turnover ratio is a stupid and flawed statistic to begin with, and even if it wasn't, it certainly wouldn't be the most important stat in determining the ACC POY.

Also, Lance on the defensive team is a nice accomplishment.

[strawbs]

since lance finished 4th in the voting on defensive team, is it pretty safe to assume he won't be the defensive poy? Does singleton win because he had the most votes for the team, or is the voting for the poy awards seperate?

[miramar]

Until Coach Cal's ninth inning rally, everybody seemed to agree that UNC had by far the best freshman class in the country. Although injuries were a factor, they did not have even one player on the all-rookie team:

Derrick Favors, Georgia Tech (52)
Jordan Williams, Maryland (51)
Durand Scott, Miami (44)
C.J. Harris, Wake Forest (41)
Michael Snaer, Florida State (35)

[mike88]

Its hard to argue with any of the choices. Because they have an All-Rookie team, I think it is harder for a freshman like D Favors to make the regular All-ACC team. It is also hard to get three players from a school on the first team- if Nolan played for another school, I think he would have made it.

[BD80]

When is the last time that neither Duke nor unc had a player on the all-freshman team?

[Devilsfan]

You should not be allowed to make any All-ACC team if you can't even stay academically elligible.

[AtlDuke72]

I do not think that Singler gets nearly enough credit for his defensive play. It seems to me that he is by far the best help defender on Duke's team under the basket. He also blocked a lot of shots, especially on guys who seemed to have a lay up or a dunk. He also guards the other teams small forward and also switches effectively to the guards. While I am glad that Thomas has gotten recognition on the All - defensive team, in my opinion Singler is Duke's best defensive player.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Congrats to all our guys who made the All Conference teams!

I'm surprised that Lance was "only" fourth in voting on the All Defensive team. Too bad Zoubs didn't start playing defense like a madman until the last month or so. Watching him now is simply amazing! And the coordination with Lance on switches, help side and screens is like watching a ballet!

[CDu]

This is a digression, but I don't know how you can justify the above statement. Assist/turnover ratio is a stupid and flawed statistic to begin with, and even if it wasn't, it certainly wouldn't be the most important stat in determining the ACC POY.

Also, in conference play (which is I believe the supposed criteria for the selections), Scheyer isn't even "light-years" ahead of Vasquez in A/TO ratio. Scheyer's A/TO ratio in ACC play is 2.1. Vasquez's ratio is 1.9.

When you consider that Vasquez averaged two more assists per game and 3.5 more points per game in conference play, shot a higher FG% and 3pt FG% and nearly matched Scheyer in FT% and A/TO, and I think it's not unreasonable at all to say that Vasquez is the conference player of the year.

[noyac]

Also, in conference play (which is I believe the supposed criteria for the selections), Scheyer isn't even "light-years" ahead of Vasquez in A/TO ratio. Scheyer's A/TO ratio in ACC play is 2.1. Vasquez's ratio is 1.9.

When you consider that Vasquez averaged two more assists per game and 3.5 more points per game in conference play, shot a higher FG% and 3pt FG% and nearly matched Scheyer in FT% and A/TO, and I think it's not unreasonable at all to say that Vasquez is the conference player of the year.

As much as I hate saying I have to agree that Vazquez deserves to get the ACC POY award. Scheyer's defense does nullify some of the differences in the statistics but Vzaquez still gets the edge due to his in conference performances and the what have you done lately factor.

[Olympic Fan]

While does the front page say that Kyle made the second team???

He was a first team pick, although not unanimous as Jon was.

[SCMatt33]

As much as I hate saying I have to agree that Vazquez deserves to get the ACC POY award. Scheyer's defense does nullify some of the differences in the statistics but Vzaquez still gets the edge due to his in conference performances and the what have you done lately factor.

I think you can logically argue either way for Scheyer/Vasquez, but I think that the "MVP" factor will give it to Vasquez. I know it's POY award and not an MVP, but the fact that Maryland relied solely on Vasquez will help him immensely. Especially during conference play, Jon would have some "down" games where Kyle or Nolan carried the team more, but for Maryland, it was generally Vasquez or bust.

[Jeffrey]

And no Heels anywhere to be found.

Geez, Harrison Barnes must really be double thinking his decision now. He almost signed with a team on the rise, only to change his mind to a team in extreme free fall.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

While does the front page say that Kyle made the second team???

He was a first team pick, although not unanimous as Jon was.
Julio has made the needed correction.

[CDu]

I think you can logically argue either way for Scheyer/Vasquez, but I think that the "MVP" factor will give it to Vasquez. I know it's POY award and not an MVP, but the fact that Maryland relied solely on Vasquez will help him immensely. Especially during conference play, Jon would have some "down" games where Kyle or Nolan carried the team more, but for Maryland, it was generally Vasquez or bust.

Based on ACC play (which is I believe what the conference honor is based upon), I'm not sure Scheyer even really has that strong a case when ignoring the "MVP" factor:

ACC-only stats:
Scheyer: 37.6 mpg, 18.7 ppg, 4.6 apg, 3.3 rpg, 1.9 spg, 37.9% fg, 36.6% 3pt, 85.7% ft, 1.29 pps, 2.1 a/to
Vasquez: 35.8 mpg, 22.1 ppg, 6.3 apg, 4.4 rpg, 1.4 spg, 44.2% fg, 39.8% 3pt, 85.0% ft, 1.29 pps, 1.9 a/to

Despite playing fewer minutes, Vasquez put up bigger numbers in points, assists, and rebounds. And despite having a greater burden of his team's offensive responsibility, he was a more efficient shooter, equally efficient scorer, and roughly as-efficient passer.

[strawbs]

when is poy announced?

[RainingThrees]

Based on ACC play (which is I believe what the conference honor is based upon), I'm not sure Scheyer even really has that strong a case when ignoring the "MVP" factor:

ACC-only stats:
Scheyer: 37.6 mpg, 18.7 ppg, 4.6 apg, 3.3 rpg, 1.9 spg, 37.9% fg, 36.6% 3pt, 85.7% ft, 1.29 pps, 2.1 a/to
Vasquez: 35.8 mpg, 22.1 ppg, 6.3 apg, 4.4 rpg, 1.4 spg, 44.2% fg, 39.8% 3pt, 85.0% ft, 1.29 pps, 1.9 a/to

Despite playing fewer minutes, Vasquez put up bigger numbers in points, assists, and rebounds. And despite having a greater burden of his team's offensive responsibility, he was a more efficient shooter, equally efficient scorer, and roughly as-efficient passer.

As much as I want to be a homer and I want Jon to win, I don't think Duke fans can really argue with these stats. Vasquez should win, even though he is a terp and a communist.

[jv001]

Based on ACC play (which is I believe what the conference honor is based upon), I'm not sure Scheyer even really has that strong a case when ignoring the "MVP" factor:

ACC-only stats:
Scheyer: 37.6 mpg, 18.7 ppg, 4.6 apg, 3.3 rpg, 1.9 spg, 37.9% fg, 36.6% 3pt, 85.7% ft, 1.29 pps, 2.1 a/to
Vasquez: 35.8 mpg, 22.1 ppg, 6.3 apg, 4.4 rpg, 1.4 spg, 44.2% fg, 39.8% 3pt, 85.0% ft, 1.29 pps, 1.9 a/to

Despite playing fewer minutes, Vasquez put up bigger numbers in points, assists, and rebounds. And despite having a greater burden of his team's offensive responsibility, he was a more efficient shooter, equally efficient scorer, and roughly as-efficient passer.

With facts/numbers in this case. Both are deserving players. However I still hope Jon wins it. We've been "short changed" in the past. Maybe Jon will get this award but if GV wins, I'll just say job well done and we'll beat you in the finals. That's another thing, even if Jon does not win POY, he could win another tourney MVP. Go Duke!

[Duvall]

Based on ACC play (which is I believe what the conference honor is based upon)

As I understand it, this is not the case. I think one of our writers here said earlier that there were no such guidelines for voting for ACC awards, but I could be wrong.

[CDu]

As I understand it, this is not the case. I think one of our writers here said earlier that there were no such guidelines for voting for ACC awards, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, if there are no such stipulations, then that certainly benefits Scheyer. He was much better in November/December than Vasquez (he was a legit NPOY candidate as of early-January). Since 2010 though, Vasquez has been the slightly better performer.

[Billy Dat]

Big congrats to our guys...Jon was a first team lock. Kyle's high vote total showed how strong he has been playing. I feel great for those two.

I can't help feeling Nolan got robbed. He has been on a tear lately. OK, Booker's the senior, his stats are solid...but Duke won the ACC and Nolan is a major part of that.

I do think a little chip on his shoulder will contribute to continued great play now when the stakes are highest.

You can't collect too much harware...we're proud of you boys!

[-bdbd]

Also, in conference play (which is I believe the supposed criteria for the selections), Scheyer isn't even "light-years" ahead of Vasquez in A/TO ratio. Scheyer's A/TO ratio in ACC play is 2.1. Vasquez's ratio is 1.9.

When you consider that Vasquez averaged two more assists per game and 3.5 more points per game in conference play, shot a higher FG% and 3pt FG% and nearly matched Scheyer in FT% and A/TO, and I think it's not unreasonable at all to say that Vasquez is the conference player of the year.

I think ACC POY will be a close vote, and politics will play a role, as usual, but I absolutely could see a case for any of the three top guys. My suspicion is that GV edges out Jon, mostly because of his IMPORTANCE TO HIS TEAM. Jon has been terrific, and we certainly lose some more games if we didn't have him, but MD is absolutely dependent on Grevis. W/O him they're maybe fighting for an NCAA bid, and are maybe 4-6 seed in the ACCT. That said, I can be ok with any of the top-3 guys winning, and am rooting for a tie. :cool:

As for the ACC All-Conference teams, it is really amazing that NC@CH has ALWAYS had a player on one of the all-conference teams EVERY YEAR since the inception of the ACC (!!). It is truly amazing (and kinda fun to see it snap). However, remeber that it is the ACC media that picks those teams, and that ACC media is headquartered 7 miles to the SW of Durham... :rolleyes:

Go Duke!!!

:D :D

[Kedsy]

I think ACC POY will be a close vote, and politics will play a role, as usual, but I absolutely could see a case for any of the three top guys. My suspicion is that GV edges out Jon, mostly because of his IMPORTANCE TO HIS TEAM. Jon has been terrific, and we certainly lose some more games if we didn't have him, but MD is absolutely dependent on Grevis. W/O him they're maybe fighting for an NCAA bid, and are maybe 4-6 seed in the ACCT.

I think without him they're fighting UNC for an NIT bid and are an 8 to 10 seed in the ACCT. If "player of the year" in the ACC is equivalent to "most valuable player," GV should win hands down.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think without him they're fighting UNC for an NIT bid and are an 8 to 10 seed in the ACCT. If "player of the year" in the ACC is equivalent to "most valuable player," GV should win hands down.

Bingo. Vasquez means more to Maryland than Scheyer means more to Duke. Nothing against Scheyer - just shows how valuable Vasquez is. That said, I would rather have the Firm than Vasquez (so would Maryland)

[sagegrouse]

BTW, anyone else notice that six of the ten players on the All-ACC first and second team were from the Big four schools in NC? (Yeah, I know, UNC didn't have anyone.)

I personally would have put everyone on the third team ahead of Tracy Smith and Ish Smith: Lawal, Hudson, Singleton, Trapani and Alabi.

sagegrouse
'However, Tracy Smith's performance against Duke, if repeated a few times, would have made him first team'

[CDu]

BTW, anyone else notice that six of the ten players on the All-ACC first and second team were from the Big four schools in NC? (Yeah, I know, UNC didn't have anyone.)

I personally would have put everyone on the third team ahead of Tracy Smith and Ish Smith: Lawal, Hudson, Singleton, Trapani and Alabi.

sagegrouse
'However, Tracy Smith's performance against Duke, if repeated a few times, would have made him first team'

I wouldn't put any of those guys ahead of Ish Smith. He's been fantastic this year. And his stats certainly support his spot as well. And statistically-speaking, only Lawal really fits in the same discussion as Tracy Smith. Smith is second among your list in rebounds and first in points (by a wide margin).

You could make a case for Lawal over Smith, but you can certainly make a case for Smith over Lawal. And Smith has better stats than any of the others on the third team.

I have no quibbles with the inclusion of the Smiths on the second team.

[Duke3517]

Based on ACC play (which is I believe what the conference honor is based upon), I'm not sure Scheyer even really has that strong a case when ignoring the "MVP" factor:

ACC-only stats:
Scheyer: 37.6 mpg, 18.7 ppg, 4.6 apg, 3.3 rpg, 1.9 spg, 37.9% fg, 36.6% 3pt, 85.7% ft, 1.29 pps, 2.1 a/to
Vasquez: 35.8 mpg, 22.1 ppg, 6.3 apg, 4.4 rpg, 1.4 spg, 44.2% fg, 39.8% 3pt, 85.0% ft, 1.29 pps, 1.9 a/to

Despite playing fewer minutes, Vasquez put up bigger numbers in points, assists, and rebounds. And despite having a greater burden of his team's offensive responsibility, he was a more efficient shooter, equally efficient scorer, and roughly as-efficient passer.

That's kinda flawed because his team needs him to put up that much points up in order to win. Scheyer has to spread the wealth to Singler and Smith. If they do it based on stats I guess he should win but the way things are ran at Duke is much different then Maryland. I can almost bet Scheyer is the better defensive player. Vasquez turns the ball over 3.3 times a game where Scheyer is like 1.8 or something. Im not sure how the acc criteria works though. If they do it based on how they played against each other Scheyer was much better at Cameron and at Maryland they were identical though Vasquez gets the nod because his team won the game. My vote is for Scheyer if I had one.

[CDu]

That's kinda flawed because his team needs him to put up that much points up in order to win. Scheyer has to spread the wealth to Singler and Smith. If they do it based on stats I guess he should win but the way things are ran at Duke is much different then Maryland. I can almost bet Scheyer is the better defensive player. Vasquez turns the ball over 3.3 times a game where Scheyer is like 1.8 or something. Im not sure how the acc criteria works though. If they do it based on how they played against each other Scheyer was much better at Cameron and at Maryland they were identical though Vasquez gets the nod because his team won the game. My vote is for Scheyer if I had one.

The data are not flawed. Those are facts from conference play. In conference play, Vasquez was just as efficient as Scheyer and more productive. I would argue that the fact that the team relies on Vasquez more makes it even more impressive that he was as efficient as Scheyer in ACC play. You'd think that, if the team was more reliant on you, defenses would be more focused on you and thus your efficiency would go down.

You bring up the 3.3 turnovers for Vasquez to 1.8 turnovers for Scheyer per game. Those are per-season numbers. I used conference-only statistics. In conference play, Vasquez was the better player. Over the course of non-conference play, Scheyer was the better player. So the question is whether the award is honored based on conference play or based on conference and non-conference play.

Given that Vasquez won the award, it appears that the voters value conference play over non-conference play.