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striker219
03-08-2010, 12:40 PM
After a quick read through of this article (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/5566/nolan-smith-isnt-going-anywhere), a few things jumped out.

"Smith scores 17.6 points per game, third on his team behind Kyle Singler and Jon Scheyer, and fourth overall in the conference." Second on the team, actually, ahead of Singler.

"You hear very little about this, likely because Smith seems a less integral part of his team's offense than either Singler and Scheyer..." I guess the word "seems" leaves this open to interpretation, but to me he seems pretty integral in that he is our second leading scorer, and is shooting a higher field goal percentage and 3-point field goal percentage than either Scheyer or Singler, and he's also our best player at creating his own shot off the dribble (in my opinion).

"...entering the NBA draft after his junior season -- which Singler is likely to do..." I would have said more likely a few months ago, but whatever.

"Scheyer, a senior, is a late pick at best, and will probably head overseas when his college career is finished." Has there been some talk about this that I've missed or is this just his opinion?

"The Blue Devils may or may not lose Singler, but if they do they'll be losing their two leading scorers." Again, just not true.

"Coach K's 2010-11 team will rely heavily on freshmen whose minutes waned as the ACC season picked up speed..." Miles is a sophomore, Curry a sophomore, and we will likely be starting a freshman point guard next year, though the current freshman he refers to will of course play a larger role next year, I'll give him that.

"...having Smith around to take over point guard duties for that team will be a major boost." Smith still going to be a 2, though yes, he will probably occasionally run the point. Along with Seth Curry. But I'm guessing both will be second and third options to KI.

What did I miss?

CDu
03-08-2010, 01:36 PM
"...entering the NBA draft after his junior season -- which Singler is likely to do..." I would have said more likely a few months ago, but whatever.

With his play over the last few weeks, I'd say Singler is playing his way back into that possibility. Hopefully he returns. We'll just have to wait and see.


"Scheyer, a senior, is a late pick at best, and will probably head overseas when his college career is finished." Has there been some talk about this that I've missed or is this just his opinion?

Well, Chad Ford has him as either a 2nd round pick or not drafted. So it's not just this writer's opinion. It's also not set in stone (you never know what will happen over the next few months), but it's not an outlandish suggestion.

So basically, he misstated that Singler is outscoring Smith, and he hasn't done the research on Duke's incoming recruits. The rest are just gradations on interpretation. It's certainly not great research, but it's not that awful.

Interestingly, he did get it right that Smith is fourth in the conference - he just put Singler ahead of Smith instead of Vasquez.

rotogod00
03-08-2010, 02:13 PM
After a quick read through of this article (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/5566/nolan-smith-isnt-going-anywhere), a few things jumped out.

"Smith scores 17.6 points per game, third on his team behind Kyle Singler and Jon Scheyer, and fourth overall in the conference." Second on the team, actually, ahead of Singler.

"You hear very little about this, likely because Smith seems a less integral part of his team's offense than either Singler and Scheyer..." I guess the word "seems" leaves this open to interpretation, but to me he seems pretty integral in that he is our second leading scorer, and is shooting a higher field goal percentage and 3-point field goal percentage than either Scheyer or Singler, and he's also our best player at creating his own shot off the dribble (in my opinion).

"...entering the NBA draft after his junior season -- which Singler is likely to do..." I would have said more likely a few months ago, but whatever.

"Scheyer, a senior, is a late pick at best, and will probably head overseas when his college career is finished." Has there been some talk about this that I've missed or is this just his opinion?

"The Blue Devils may or may not lose Singler, but if they do they'll be losing their two leading scorers." Again, just not true.

"Coach K's 2010-11 team will rely heavily on freshmen whose minutes waned as the ACC season picked up speed..." Miles is a sophomore, Curry a sophomore, and we will likely be starting a freshman point guard next year, though the current freshman he refers to will of course play a larger role next year, I'll give him that.

"...having Smith around to take over point guard duties for that team will be a major boost." Smith still going to be a 2, though yes, he will probably occasionally run the point. Along with Seth Curry. But I'm guessing both will be second and third options to KI.

What did I miss?

If you read the article's comments section, you'll see me all up in there wondering the same things

crimsonandblue
03-08-2010, 02:34 PM
I've always thought of Scheyer as a rich man's Ryan Robertson, who was taken 45th by the Kings in 1999 and got a cup of coffee (1 game) in the NBA. Lanky. White. Compelled to play the point. Good shooter and scorer. Again, Scheyer's got better tools, but they're somewhat comparable.

I would expect Scheyer to be taken late first to early second and have a real shot at making a roster. I don't know that he has a position in the NBA that he can really defend, but he's too good a player not to get a real look.

SilkyJ
03-08-2010, 02:54 PM
I would expect Scheyer to be taken late first to early second and have a real shot at making a roster. I don't know that he has a position in the NBA that he can really defend, but he's too good a player not to get a real look.

Not sure why you would expect that. He is projected as "late second round to undrafted" by 90% of the folks out there.

If he's taken earlier than 40th I'll be fairly shocked.

vlove
03-08-2010, 03:14 PM
I've always thought of Scheyer as a rich man's Ryan Robertson...

ironically enough crimsonandblue, I'm not a KU guy, but Scheyer has always struck me more as being a cross between a poor man's Kirk Heinrich & Julian Wright- good to very good at a lot of skills, yet master of none. That isn't in any way a put down of any of their respective games, but rather a testament as to how well-rounded each of the aofrementioned player's games are.

By virtue of having an additional gear, Heinrich has NBA-level athletecism which made him a lottery pick & has enabled him to be a high quality PG/combo in the league. Scheyer may not have Heinrich's baseline to baseline footspeed and hence lacks the "measurable" that lottery teams look for, but is certainly no slouch in terms of his lateral quickness, and also is about 2-3 inches taller (based on the eye test) with much longer arms (which is where the Wright comparison comes in), making him a very effective on/off the ball defender as well as finisher in the lane. Much like Wright, he also possesses outstanding balance, which enables him to get off his unorthodox flicks & floaters in the lane against taller trees.

If Scheyer is able to consistently hit his jumper at the next level (which is the ultimate acid test for any aspiring NBA backourt player), I see no reason why he too can't stick around for a long career, even eventually develop into a starter for a contending team.

CDu
03-08-2010, 03:28 PM
ironically enough crimsonandblue, I'm not a KU guy, but Scheyer has always struck me more as being a cross between a poor man's Kirk Heinrich & Julian Wright- good to very good at a lot of skills, yet master of none. That isn't in any way a put down of any of their respective games, but rather a testament as to how well-rounded each of the aofrementioned player's games are.

By virtue of having an additional gear, Heinrich has NBA-level athletecism which made him a lottery pick & has enabled him to be a high quality PG/combo in the league. Scheyer may not have Heinrich's baseline to baseline footspeed and hence lacks the "measurable" that lottery teams look for, but is certainly no slouch in terms of his lateral quickness, and also is about 2-3 inches taller (based on the eye test) with much longer arms (which is where the Wright comparison comes in), making him a very effective on/off the ball defender as well as finisher in the lane. Much like Wright, he also possesses outstanding balance, which enables him to get off his unorthodox flicks & floaters in the lane against taller trees.

If Scheyer is able to consistently hit his jumper at the next level (which is the ultimate acid test for any aspiring NBA backourt player), I see no reason why he too can't stick around for a long career, even eventually develop into a starter for a contending team.

Sorry to be that guy, but it's Hinrich, not Heinrich. As a Bulls fan, that's a pet peeve of mine.

As for Scheyer, I've actually gotten the impression that he has fairly short arms for his height (a victim of the "long-neck, short arms" syndrome). I certainly don't think he has long arms in the nature of Julian Wright (who had a 9'0" standing reach and 7'2" inch wingspan). I don't think Scheyer gets his shots off due to long arms. I think he gets his shots off due to good savvy and court awareness.

Mike Corey
03-08-2010, 03:56 PM
Singler isn't likely to do anything at this point but continue playing his hardest. Assertions that he's "likely" to leave early are baseless.

Cross that bridge when we come to it. But for now, we're on a helluva wave. And Singler's leading the way.

Neals384
03-09-2010, 10:50 AM
What did I miss?

"who wouldn't want three players averaging 17-plus minutes for their team?"

livehead16
03-10-2010, 04:57 PM
As for Scheyer, I've actually gotten the impression that he has fairly short arms for his height (a victim of the "long-neck, short arms" syndrome). I certainly don't think he has long arms in the nature of Julian Wright (who had a 9'0" standing reach and 7'2" inch wingspan).

Jon's many positive attributes (from a basketball standpoint) don't really include his wingspan. Last summer at the Deron Williams camp, he measured out at 74". Among all the college players at the camp, he was tied for the tallest, but his wingspan was comparable to players several inches shorter. It's not as if his arms are truly short (and I would argue that his basketball IQ makes up for a couple of inches of arm length), but it isn't a stat for him to hang his hat on.

Camp Measurements: http://inside.nikebasketball.com/news/wp-content/2009/06/09_Deron_Williams_-_College_Roster.pdf

vlove
03-10-2010, 05:40 PM
interesting stuff- I stand corrected regarding his arms. I def. would have pegged his wingspan as much, much longer than thomas or lucas (as i would have nic wise as well) based on his ability to convert an inordinate amount of his twisting forays to the hoop, but those stats clearly indicate otherwise.

i've always thought k's best teams featured long-armed perimeter players that could disrupt other teams on d, especially from the pg position (amaker, snyder, duhon the prototype examples). hurley & wojo being exceptions to the rule, but both had outstanding lateral quickness & low centers of gravity to make themselves defensive pests nonetheless.

now i'm off to do some research to see how their wingspan's measured up!

greybeard
03-10-2010, 06:49 PM
More than a tad like Roger Mason if you ask me. Wingspan is deceiving. Jon is small through the chest and shoulders. I loved his off the ball skills as a defender when Duke played pressure. The best I've seen at it.

I worry about his ability to finish in the open court. Playing limited minutes might well make that a non issue.

However, one has the feeling that Jon would flourish as a person and player in a town like Barcelona or Tel Aviv. Is there a team in Tuscany? Somehow, to paraphrase Mel Brooks, I've got to think that this time next year we'll all be saying, "It's good to be Jon Scheyer."

Before that, however, the kid definitely has some business to attend to. Ain't college basketball great!

CDu
03-10-2010, 07:17 PM
interesting stuff- I stand corrected regarding his arms. I def. would have pegged his wingspan as much, much longer than thomas or lucas (as i would have nic wise as well) based on his ability to convert an inordinate amount of his twisting forays to the hoop, but those stats clearly indicate otherwise.

I think this is actually a further compliment to Scheyer's court awareness and savvy. The guy isn't explosively quick, can't jump very high, and doesn't have long arms, yet (as you so accurately note) he has an uncanny ability to get his shots off around the basket. He's just really good about staying on balance and creating space to get his shot off. Perhaps it is because he knows he's not going to jump over you, so he never gets out of control trying to explode to the rim. Instead, he stays composed, keeps his balance, and finds the angles.