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NYC Duke Fan
03-04-2010, 07:04 PM
If Kansas wins the tournament this year, and in my opinion they are the best team and usually the best team does win, where would you rank Self among the present day coaches:

Calhoun
Donovan
Pitino
Williams
Boeheim
Izzo

And if Syracuse wins the tournament how would you rank Boeheim among the present day coaches:

Calhoun
Pitino
Donovan
Williams
Izzo

Greg_Newton
03-04-2010, 07:18 PM
...

Why don't you just say what you really want to, that you don't think K is currently as good as these coaches?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but judging by his glaring omission and your previous posts/threads in this vein, I'm guessing this is what you really want to discuss.

DukeCO2009
03-04-2010, 07:20 PM
...

Why don't you just say what you really want to, that you don't think K is currently as good as these coaches?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but judging by his glaring omission and your previous posts/threads in this vein, I'm guessing this is what you really want to discuss.

Relax. I'm 99% sure he omitted K because he thinks K is clearly better than any of the guys he mentioned. His post is about second place.

brevity
03-04-2010, 07:41 PM
Relax. I'm 99% sure he omitted K because he thinks K is clearly better than any of the guys he mentioned. His post is about second place.

In that case, I'm in the 1% uncertainty camp.

Now, the situation is different if Coach K is not considered a "present-day coach," but rather an "all-time coach who happens to remain active in the present day." That could be an intriguing argument.

CDu
03-04-2010, 07:47 PM
In that case, I'm in the 1% uncertainty camp.

Now, the situation is different if Coach K is not considered a "present-day coach," but rather an "all-time coach who happens to remain active in the present day." That could be an intriguing argument.

If that's the case, then I'd argue that Pitino probably doesn't fit on the list. He's been less relevant nationally than Coach K over the past decade.

But I agree - the original post sounds like an implicit bash Coach K post.

Duvall
03-04-2010, 08:29 PM
Relax. I'm 99% sure he omitted K because he thinks K is clearly better than any of the guys he mentioned. His post is about second place.

Why would you think that?

strawbs
03-04-2010, 10:47 PM
i personally think that boeheim is a better coach then everyone you listed except izzo who i consider him equal. roy williams is a close 3rd and i would have had him as the number 1 guy (only on that list, i truly think K is the best coach in the country) except for the extremely poor season his team is having this year.

Greg_Newton
03-04-2010, 11:44 PM
Relax. I'm 99% sure he omitted K because he thinks K is clearly better than any of the guys he mentioned. His post is about second place.

I don't know... to me, this feels like another approach to: http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17886

My apologies to the OP if I'm honestly wrong, but something smells a little fishy here.

NYC Duke Fan
03-05-2010, 02:28 AM
...

Why don't you just say what you really want to, that you don't think K is currently as good as these coaches?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but judging by his glaring omission and your previous posts/threads in this vein, I'm guessing this is what you really want to discuss.

You are not even close. I did not put Coach K in the mix because I think that he is the best present day coach and I wanted to get the read of how the others fare.

So, please do not bait me when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

NYC Duke Fan
03-05-2010, 02:30 AM
Relax. I'm 99% sure he omitted K because he thinks K is clearly better than any of the guys he mentioned. His post is about second place.

Bingo !!!

oldnavy
03-05-2010, 05:40 AM
If Kansas wins the tournament this year, and in my opinion they are the best team and usually the best team does win, where would you rank Self among the present day coaches:

Calhoun
Donovan
Pitino
Williams
Boeheim
Izzo

And if Syracuse wins the tournament how would you rank Boeheim among the present day coaches:

Calhoun
Pitino
Donovan
Williams
Izzo
When I think of coaches I really think of two different areas. Program building and success and game day preparation and game management.

Program Building and Success
K
Boeheim
Izzo
Williams
Calhoun
Self (working his way in)
(Pitino and Donovan don't make it)

Game Prep and Management
K
Boeheim
Self
Pitino
Calhoun
Donovan
(Roy isn't in the top 25 on this list)

greybeard
03-05-2010, 09:07 AM
This is a tad silly. One of Roy's championship teams was assembled (recruited) by a guy whom UNC fired. Roy assembled great teams at KU and could never get it done. Gary Williams won a national championship with a center who was 6'8" on a good day wearing pumps and who couldn't have gotten arrested at most big time programs (Oops, bad analogy) and gets as much out of his teams as anyone. JTIII inherited a team and coached em up better than the guy who assembled them could have hoped to have.

People win championships with players who leave early because other guys won the year before with players who left early. Michigan State, KU, UNC are programs which almost by definition will be overstocked with talent year in and year out.

Rooting used to have something to do with where you went to school, the good times you had whether your team won the big one or lost. Now it is a fantasy game of who is better.

It seems to me that K has left everyone who has gone to Duke for I don't know how many years with more than enough good memories. His teams have been innovative, have played a number of different styles, have been a credit to the best in the game, and, oh, have won way more than their share.

The rest of it is fantasy talk, if you ask me.

G man
03-05-2010, 09:11 AM
If Kansas wins the tournament this year, and in my opinion they are the best team and usually the best team does win, where would you rank Self among the present day coaches:

Calhoun
Donovan
Pitino
Williams
Boeheim
Izzo

And if Syracuse wins the tournament how would you rank Boeheim among the present day coaches:

Calhoun
Pitino
Donovan
Williams
Izzo

Of the above coaches lets look at who is really getting it done. Calhoun has within the last decade. Pitino has not really been a factor for sometime. Donovan had one great group has shown to not be as great as everyone had thought. Williams is a you know what, but in reality has probably been the most consistent within the last five years. Izzo is a stud and I doubt you will find anyone the disagree's. Boeheim has been even more inconsistent then maybe all of thee above coaches. K has been very consistent this decade. I would say with a couple of misses on players kept him from being great. He needs to be mentioned in the same breath as Izzo, Williams, Self, Howland, and K I think have been the best in the last decade I admitted Calhoun because he only did it with one group of players then became very irrelevant.

ArtVandelay
03-05-2010, 09:42 AM
I think that K's consistency is what sets him apart from the rest of this group. Even in the so-called "down" years (e.g. the 2007 team), they still won over 20 games, made the tournament, etc. Almost everyone else on this list, with a few exceptions, has put some pretty bad teams on the floor.

I would put Boeheim in that category. He's a great coach, one of the best, but he has had his share of ups and downs. I think Roy has been tremendous (arguably he's had the most overall success in the decade), but he has also benefitted from working two of the best programs of all time. Bottom line - I'd put Izzo and Calhoun at the top of the list in this past decade at least.

crimsonandblue
03-05-2010, 09:50 AM
I think that K's consistency is what sets him apart from the rest of this group. Even in the so-called "down" years (e.g. the 2007 team), they still won over 20 games, made the tournament, etc. Almost everyone else on this list, with a few exceptions, has put some pretty bad teams on the floor.

I would put Boeheim in that category. He's a great coach, one of the best, but he has had his share of ups and downs. I think Roy has been tremendous (arguably he's had the most overall success in the decade), but he has also benefitted from working two of the best programs of all time. Bottom line - I'd put Izzo and Calhoun at the top of the list in this past decade at least.

Self has won (or tied for) ten of the last twelve conference regular season championships he's been in and six in a row in the Big XII. If you want consistency, there you go.

DukeCO2009
03-05-2010, 10:38 AM
If that's the case, then I'd argue that Pitino probably doesn't fit on the list. He's been less relevant nationally than Coach K over the past decade.

But I agree - the original post sounds like an implicit bash Coach K post.

I honestly have no idea how you get that impression from the original post.

Greg_Newton
03-05-2010, 05:53 PM
You are not even close. I did not put Coach K in the mix because I think that he is the best present day coach and I wanted to get the read of how the others fare.

So, please do not bait me when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Really? Because I thought this thread looked familar, so I did a quick search... this is from your "Top College Coaches" thread:


In do deference to Coach K, right now I do not consider him to be the best coach in college basketball. I think that Donovan, Williams are better and I think that Coach K is in the second tier right now with Tom Izzo, Jim Calhoun, Ben Howland ...there maybe others but I am having a senior momemt.

And from your "Coach K is One of The Best Coaches" thread:


I emphasize ONE of the best, because at one time I considered him to be THE best coach.

And in your "Rating College Coaches" thread several months ago, you repeatedly replied to pro-K posts with:


Just curiosity, aside from being a big Duke fan, why do you think that Coach K is the best game day coach ?

Not to mention the Who Is The Best Recruiter ? (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=269113#post269113), the Which Coach Would You Hire And Why (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=260615#post260615), and the How Much Responsibility Do the Coaches Have? (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=259515#post259515) threads you started with similar implications.

So, no, I don't give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you think K is so far and away the best coach in college bball that he's not even worth including. Nothing wrong with having a dissenting opinion, but it seems like there's a particular discussion you're trying to induce and I wish you would be up front about it if that's the case.

NYC Duke Fan
03-05-2010, 07:45 PM
Really? Because I thought this thread looked familar, so I did a quick search... this is from your "Top College Coaches" thread:



And from your "Coach K is One of The Best Coaches" thread:



And in your "Rating College Coaches" thread several months ago, you repeatedly replied to pro-K posts with:



Not to mention the Who Is The Best Recruiter ? (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=269113#post269113), the Which Coach Would You Hire And Why (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=260615#post260615), and the How Much Responsibility Do the Coaches Have? (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=259515#post259515) threads you started with similar implications.

So, no, I don't give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you think K is so far and away the best coach in college bball that he's not even worth including. Nothing wrong with having a dissenting opinion, but it seems like there's a particular discussion you're trying to induce and I wish you would be up front about it if that's the case.

There was no hidden agenda here. I was just trying to see who knowledgable posters thought was the top coach now, not including Coach K . That was all...nothing more.

I honestly do not care if you give me the benefit of the doubt or not, I will still sleep just fine.