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Olympic Fan
03-04-2010, 11:44 AM
The votes are due in Sunday night, although many voters will vote early. The All-ACC teams and awards will be announced early next week -- the All-ACC team itself comes out Monday.

I think we can agree that Vasquez wrapped up POY last night -- not saying he SHOULD have, but I'm pretty sure that's how most voters saw it. He's finishing on a great run -- averaging 25-plus points, seven assists and five rebounds over the last month, while driving Maryland to a likely share of the title.

He's a lock. And, as much as we might disagree, I'd bet serious momney that Sweaty Gary wins his second ACC COY award. Derrick Favors has had ROY in his pocket for a month.

But first team All-ACC is still hard to call.

Vasquez, Scheyer and Delaney are locks, but I think the other two spots are up for grabs among:

Wake's Aminu -- his late slide (no points, 2 rebounds Wednesday night in a game Wake had to have at FSU and would have won with an average Aminu performance) has hurt. He's still the only guy in the league averaging a double-double, but he's also missed double figure scoring in four of Wake's 15 ACC games.

Clemson's Booker -- He's solid, although his stats are down a bit from last year's second-team All-ACC performance. Still, he's the anchor of a team that's likely to finish third or tied for third in the ACC.

Duke's Singler -- Not as good as some writers thought when they made him preseason POY, but he's been really solid -- especially late.

Not all writers do it, but I like to look at stats against other ACC teams. I have the ACC-only stats going into this week and its Aminu (15.6 ppg; 10.6 reb.), Booker (16.0 ppg., 7.9 reb.) and Singler (18.1 ppg., 7.1 reb.). Aminu has the best FG percentage of the 3 -- Singler is best from the FT line and 3-point line.

I'd say, barring a great finish this weekend, Singler and Booker get the other two first-team spots.

That pushes Aminu to the second team with Nolan Smith, Tracy Smith, Sylvan Landesberg (all locks IMHO) and either Ish Smith (like Aminu, he's slumped), Joe Trapani or maybe Dorenzo Hudson (fifth in scoring in ACC play).

The two that don't make it go to third team, which seems to me to be wide open. I like Alabi at FSU. Maybe Gani Lawal, second in ACC rebounding, but he's averaging just 11.4 ppg. in league play. Actually, I think Derrick Favors has been better in the ACC. I'd love to see Zoubek get consideration, but I'm afraid his late surge is just too late (maybe if he would have dominated Maryland last night like he did the first time ...)

UNC made the interesting choice to promote Ed Davis instead of Deon Thompson. Had he stayed healthy and maintained his stats (10.4 ppg., 8.4 rpg. in ACC), Davis would have been a good third team choice ... but he only played in 8 ACC game -- half a schedule. Will that get him a spot?

Favors heads the all-rookie team. Jordan Williams, Durand Scott and Michael Snaer should also make it. Will CJ Harris, who put up good scoring numbers early, but hasn't been able to hit anything in the last month, get a spot? I'd prefer Brian Oliver at GT -- but (just a wild guess) I think the UNC-lovers out there will express their devotion by giving John Henson a little love here.

The all-defense team starts with Alabi and Singleton at FSU. I think Lance Thomas gets a spot. After that, I don't know -- both Ginyard at UNC and Bell at Georgia Tech came into the season with reputations as defensive stoppers, but both have been awful defensively.

gw67
03-04-2010, 12:39 PM
Olympic,

I agree with your choices for POY, COY, ROY and 1st team All ACC as well as the top four on the 2nd team. I suggest that there are about fifteen players who have not had sterling seasons but probably deserve consideration for the remaining six spots on the All ACC 2nd and 3rd teams. It may depend on the location of the voter as I could see some local favortism playing a role where there isn't a clear choice. The overall and conference-only stats can be found on the link below:

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2009-2010/confstat.html

gw67

NSDukeFan
03-04-2010, 12:45 PM
The votes are due in Sunday night, although many voters will vote early. The All-ACC teams and awards will be announced early next week -- the All-ACC team itself comes out Monday.

I think we can agree that Vasquez wrapped up POY last night -- not saying he SHOULD have, but I'm pretty sure that's how most voters saw it. He's finishing on a great run -- averaging 25-plus points, seven assists and five rebounds over the last month, while driving Maryland to a likely share of the title.

He's a lock. And, as much as we might disagree, I'd bet serious momney that Sweaty Gary wins his second ACC COY award. Derrick Favors has had ROY in his pocket for a month.

But first team All-ACC is still hard to call.

Vasquez, Scheyer and Delaney are locks, but I think the other two spots are up for grabs among:

Wake's Aminu -- his late slide (no points, 2 rebounds Wednesday night in a game Wake had to have at FSU and would have won with an average Aminu performance) has hurt. He's still the only guy in the league averaging a double-double, but he's also missed double figure scoring in four of Wake's 15 ACC games.

Clemson's Booker -- He's solid, although his stats are down a bit from last year's second-team All-ACC performance. Still, he's the anchor of a team that's likely to finish third or tied for third in the ACC.

Duke's Singler -- Not as good as some writers thought when they made him preseason POY, but he's been really solid -- especially late.

Not all writers do it, but I like to look at stats against other ACC teams. I have the ACC-only stats going into this week and its Aminu (15.6 ppg; 10.6 reb.), Booker (16.0 ppg., 7.9 reb.) and Singler (18.1 ppg., 7.1 reb.). Aminu has the best FG percentage of the 3 -- Singler is best from the FT line and 3-point line.

I'd say, barring a great finish this weekend, Singler and Booker get the other two first-team spots.

That pushes Aminu to the second team with Nolan Smith, Tracy Smith, Sylvan Landesberg (all locks IMHO) and either Ish Smith (like Aminu, he's slumped), Joe Trapani or maybe Dorenzo Hudson (fifth in scoring in ACC play).

The two that don't make it go to third team, which seems to me to be wide open. I like Alabi at FSU. Maybe Gani Lawal, second in ACC rebounding, but he's averaging just 11.4 ppg. in league play. Actually, I think Derrick Favors has been better in the ACC. I'd love to see Zoubek get consideration, but I'm afraid his late surge is just too late (maybe if he would have dominated Maryland last night like he did the first time ...)

UNC made the interesting choice to promote Ed Davis instead of Deon Thompson. Had he stayed healthy and maintained his stats (10.4 ppg., 8.4 rpg. in ACC), Davis would have been a good third team choice ... but he only played in 8 ACC game -- half a schedule. Will that get him a spot?

Favors heads the all-rookie team. Jordan Williams, Durand Scott and Michael Snaer should also make it. Will CJ Harris, who put up good scoring numbers early, but hasn't been able to hit anything in the last month, get a spot? I'd prefer Brian Oliver at GT -- but (just a wild guess) I think the UNC-lovers out there will express their devotion by giving John Henson a little love here.

The all-defense team starts with Alabi and Singleton at FSU. I think Lance Thomas gets a spot. After that, I don't know -- both Ginyard at UNC and Bell at Georgia Tech came into the season with reputations as defensive stoppers, but both have been awful defensively.

Thanks for the analysis. I would say that 4 games ago, before this slide, Aminu was a lock for first team. I can't say I disagree with anything you have said, though I wonder if Deon Thompson may have a better chance at 3rd team than Henson at All-Rookie. I would also be surprised to see Lawal fall to third team, but that is more just because of my impression of how good he is vs. how he has actually done. Would Henson also be considered ahead of Strickland? I also wonder if any of the big 3 would be considered for all defensive. They are not lock down defenders, but certainly very solid.

mike88
03-07-2010, 07:03 PM
The votes are due in Sunday night, although many voters will vote early. The All-ACC teams and awards will be announced early next week -- the All-ACC team itself comes out Monday.

I think we can agree that Vasquez wrapped up POY last night -- not saying he SHOULD have, but I'm pretty sure that's how most voters saw it. He's finishing on a great run -- averaging 25-plus points, seven assists and five rebounds over the last month, while driving Maryland to a likely share of the title.

He's a lock. And, as much as we might disagree, I'd bet serious momney that Sweaty Gary wins his second ACC COY award. Derrick Favors has had ROY in his pocket for a month.

But first team All-ACC is still hard to call.

Vasquez, Scheyer and Delaney are locks, but I think the other two spots are up for grabs among:

Wake's Aminu -- his late slide (no points, 2 rebounds Wednesday night in a game Wake had to have at FSU and would have won with an average Aminu performance) has hurt. He's still the only guy in the league averaging a double-double, but he's also missed double figure scoring in four of Wake's 15 ACC games.

Clemson's Booker -- He's solid, although his stats are down a bit from last year's second-team All-ACC performance. Still, he's the anchor of a team that's likely to finish third or tied for third in the ACC.

Duke's Singler -- Not as good as some writers thought when they made him preseason POY, but he's been really solid -- especially late.


1st team
G Vasquez
J Scheyer
K Singler
M Delaney
T Booker

2nd team
N Smith
D Favors
A Aminu
T Smith
S Landesberg

3rd team
D Hudson
I Smith
G Lawal
J Allen
C Singleton

Cameron
03-07-2010, 07:55 PM
Interestingly enough, the real life G-Man had Nolan on his first team, instead of Booker.

In that context, I agree with this because of the success Duke has had compared to the success Booker's Clemson has had -- which has been, to say the least, disappointing compared to expectations.

But I don't think either Smith or Booker should be first team. That, IMO, belongs to Kyle Singler. He's been nothing short of dominant the last 10 or 11 games. Averaging 20 points and shooting 36-of-82 from three (43%). Inside the arc, his game has been just as killer. He has turned that Bird-esque swinging half-hook floater inside into one scary offensive weapon for opponents. Such a pretty stroke he has.

I also like Vitale's co-POY scenario with Vasquez and Scheyer. Will it happen? Probably not. But it should.

capitolhill
03-07-2010, 09:39 PM
I also like Vitale's co-POY scenario with Vasquez and Scheyer. Will it happen? Probably not. But it should.

Why should the award be shared? It dilutes the value of the award. Scheyer had an outstanding year, but GV edged him out, especially in conference play. Can you really make the case that GV shouldn't get the nod?

DukeGirl4ever
03-07-2010, 09:51 PM
Why should the award be shared? It dilutes the value of the award. Scheyer had an outstanding year, but GV edged him out, especially in conference play. Can you really make the case that GV shouldn't get the nod?

And can you make the case that Scheyer shouldn't get the nod?

Their numbers are similar....and even when Jon has an off night, there is so much he does to help the team that doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

I don't think it dilutes the value - you have 2 great players - why give it to one when they're both deserving?

Kfanarmy
03-07-2010, 09:56 PM
Why should the award be shared? It dilutes the value of the award. Scheyer had an outstanding year, but GV edged him out, especially in conference play. Can you really make the case that GV shouldn't get the nod?
I think you can make an argument on A/TO ratio and raw turnovers... GV 1.9 with 100 turnovers. JS with 3.0 and 54 turnovers. if you say the opponent scores 2 on 40% of your TOs (which may be low depending on your defense), GV gave opponents 38 more points than did JS. JS also has 1.39 PPS vs 1.28 for GV. I think GV gets the nod, but it is extremely close and I think Jon is equally deserving.

Cameron
03-07-2010, 10:06 PM
I'm not the biggest fan of shared awards, but because the ACC has gone this route before (with Battier and Forte), then it can be done again. And as great a season as I think Vasquez has had, Jon Scheyer deserves this award just as much. To say he doesn't is not right IMO.

As DukeGirl said, Jon does so much for our team that goes unnoticed, even when he's shooting 3-of-10, which doesn't happen often. He has the best all-around floor game, I would argue, of any player in the country. Jon also completely outplayed Greivis in one of their head-to-head matchups on the season, so it's not like Jon hasn't beaten him. And outside of that, the two are pretty much equal.

But it won't bother me one way or the other.

capitolhill
03-07-2010, 10:16 PM
The TOs are the best arguement, however, when you look a points, rebounds, assists, GV leads in every category:


pt reb assist
GV 19.6 4.6 6.3
JS 18.9 3.5 5.2

you're right....pretty close

In ACC play, it's further apart:

pt reb assist
GV 22.1 4.6 6.9
JS 18.7 3.3 4.6

Of course, JS shares scoring and rebounding a bit more because of better players around him. On the other hand, that should give him more assists.

It's close, but I just feel like giving out two awards is a bad idea. It would be like two Oscars, because both movies were just so darned good. The league never should have allowed it to happen.

Oh yeah - congrats on the NC smackdown. This terp fan dislikes Carolina much more than Duke (it's mostly just a Roy thing).




I think you can make an argument on A/TO ratio and raw turnovers... GV 1.9 with 100 turnovers. JS with 3.0 and 54 turnovers. if you say the opponent scores 2 on 40% of your TOs (which may be low depending on your defense), GV gave opponents 38 more points than did JS. JS also has 1.39 PPS vs 1.28 for GV. I think GV gets the nod, but it is extremely close and I think Jon is equally deserving.

brickey
03-08-2010, 02:22 AM
The TOs are the best arguement, however, when you look a points, rebounds, assists, GV leads in every category...

...except when you look at steals. Jon's widely regarded as an excellent defender; GV not so much.


It's close, but I just feel like giving out two awards is a bad idea. It would be like two Oscars, because both movies were just so darned good. The league never should have allowed it to happen.

Well, if Jon were to win POY outright, I suspect you'd change your tune. Personally, I think Jon and GV are equally deserving and wouldn't be surprised if either or both of them won it.

brevity
03-08-2010, 02:24 AM
I also like Vitale's co-POY scenario with Vasquez and Scheyer. Will it happen? Probably not. But it should.

Completely disagree. If a voting body's decision is a tie, then fine, but for an individual to settle on a co-POY is spineless. I know Dick Vitale has a reputation for pronouncing lists and changing his mind in every telecast, so I've developed an immunity to his declarations. But his inability to choose either Vasquez or Scheyer is profoundly irritating.

Multiple people can deserve an award, but only one should win it. While I think Scheyer had a better pre-ACC season, Vasquez has been the league's best player since January. He's brought Maryland to lofty heights without the benefit of teammates like Nolan Smith and Kyle Singler.

Scheyer's stunning leap forward this season makes this race look kind of close, but it really isn't. He'd be a great POY winner, but also the wrong one.

brickey
03-08-2010, 03:40 AM
Completely disagree. If a voting body's decision is a tie, then fine, but for an individual to settle on a co-POY is spineless. I know Dick Vitale has a reputation for pronouncing lists and changing his mind in every telecast, so I've developed an immunity to his declarations. But his inability to choose either Vasquez or Scheyer is profoundly irritating.

Multiple people can deserve an award, but only one should win it. While I think Scheyer had a better pre-ACC season, Vasquez has been the league's best player since January. He's brought Maryland to lofty heights without the benefit of teammates like Nolan Smith and Kyle Singler.

Scheyer's stunning leap forward this season makes this race look kind of close, but it really isn't. He'd be a great POY winner, but also the wrong one.

You're clearly demonstrating recency bias with these statements. I suppose you could argue that GV has been the league's best player since February (well late February, really), but the conference season didn't start in February, did it?

Just because the Terps made a surprise late run to grab a share of the regular season title, does that make them better than Duke? Or for that matter, does it even make them Duke's equal? That seems to be your line of logic in debating POY. Really, you should ignore trajectory when thinking about this award, though, I admit, you'll probably find good company in the media with your line of thinking.

As for GV carrying UMD to "lofty heights," let me ask you this: would we have finished tied atop the conference standings had Scheyer not performed so remarkably this year, and need I remind you, in a relatively new role? (Talk about un-athletic.) Consider that Duke currently sports the most efficient offense and the third most efficient defense in the country according to Kenpom, primarily because we rarely turn it over and we defend the three-ball exceptionally well -- two areas I think Jon's most responsible for. Given our personnel this year (only one backcourt reserve, more length overall, less speed), our success has and continues to hinge on our high efficiency on both ends of the court; we simply can't push tempo and generate T/Os as we could in the past. Sure, Zoubs, Lance, Kyle, and Nolan have all been tremendous in this regard (in different ways), but Jon's been our engine. More so than for any other player on our team, Jon's best games this year have been Duke's best, his worst our worst. Fortunately, those have been few and far between. In short, I think you're dead wrong to say that Jon's been less vital to our success in-conference than GV's been to UMD's.

brevity
03-08-2010, 05:42 AM
You're clearly demonstrating recency bias with these statements. I suppose you could argue that GV has been the league's best player since February (well late February, really), but the conference season didn't start in February, did it?

Just because the Terps made a surprise late run to grab a share of the regular season title, does that make them better than Duke? Or for that matter, does it even make them Duke's equal? That seems to be your line of logic in debating POY. Really, you should ignore trajectory when thinking about this award, though, I admit, you'll probably find good company in the media with your line of thinking.

As for GV carrying UMD to "lofty heights," let me ask you this: would we have finished tied atop the conference standings had Scheyer not performed so remarkably this year, and need I remind you, in a relatively new role? (Talk about un-athletic.) Consider that Duke currently sports the most efficient offense and the third most efficient defense in the country according to Kenpom, primarily because we rarely turn it over and we defend the three-ball exceptionally well -- two areas I think Jon's most responsible for. Given our personnel this year (only one backcourt reserve, more length overall, less speed), our success has and continues to hinge on our high efficiency on both ends of the court; we simply can't push tempo and generate T/Os as we could in the past. Sure, Zoubs, Lance, Kyle, and Nolan have all been tremendous in this regard (in different ways), but Jon's been our engine. More so than for any other player on our team, Jon's best games this year have been Duke's best, his worst our worst. Fortunately, those have been few and far between. In short, I think you're dead wrong to say that Jon's been less vital to our success in-conference than GV's been to UMD's.

Try to avoid the tiny, tiny world where advocating one person means pushing all others into oblivion. I'm still pro-Scheyer. He's had a great overall season, no doubt. Definitely the best in a Duke uniform since 2006, and arguably since 2001. I see him as a remarkable 2nd place finisher.

I suppose I should have prefaced my decision with a strong belief that ACC Player of the Year can take into account the entire season, but really should emphasize conference play. I fully accept 2002's seeming contradiction where Juan Dixon can be considered best in conference, while Jay Williams was considered the best nationwide. I think something similar could happen here, where Vasquez does better in ACC races and Scheyer does better in the national picture.

I'm not really looking at trajectory. I think it helps voters if a candidate is fresh in their minds, but I'd rather look at the entire course of 16 games, and then secondarily the non-conference games. There are a lot of confusing factors to consider and weigh: unbalanced schedules, peak performances for each player, below average performances for each player, how Scheyer did against Maryland, how Vasquez did against Duke, comparative value of each player to his team, consistency, statistics, your gut. When I said that Vasquez had come on since January, I meant the conference season. When I said that he lacked the benefit of teammates like Smith and Singler, that goes to his comparative value to his team. Duke without Scheyer is still an NCAA tournament team. Maryland without Vasquez probably isn't.

You bring in a lot of conversation that I don't think I prompted. I never said Maryland was better, worse, or equal to Duke. They split their series and have identical records in unbalanced conference play. That's really all I know. I would guess Duke is ultimately the better team -- I like their chances if they play Maryland in the ACC final -- and fully understand their clear separation in the projected seedings and polls. (For example, Duke never lost to William & Mary.)

As I said earlier, I think Scheyer would be a great POY winner, and I can understand why voters might prefer him. (I disagree, but I understand.) I also don't think Nolan Smith and Kyle Singler hurt Scheyer's chances. 3 dominant players do not necessarily dilute each other. If you look at the Connecticut women in recent years, there's a good chance 3 players make the All-Big East first team, and one of them is POY.

Finally, please understand that my pick is an opinion, and I have no interest in convincing others to change their opinions. My earlier vitriol was about asking others to form an opinion. Scheyer? Fine. Vasquez? Fine. Delaney? Fine. Co-POY? Not fine. That's only acceptable if we're talking about conjoined twins. (Maybe the Wear brothers can get sewn up, share a jersey, and become good in a few years.)

gw67
03-08-2010, 08:07 AM
I'm with Brevity on this one but if Scheyer wins, I'm more than fine with it. I've liked the youngster since I read about him leading his suburban high school to the Illinois state championship and I spent too many posts defending him (and Paulus) the summer after the loss to VCU against the negative nellies on this site not to be a big fan of his. Nevertheless, I consider the POY award to be very close with Vasquez having the edge because of his outstanding ACC play (shot better, passed better, rebounded better, made big shots and was not a poor defensive player). As noted earlier, Scheyer had more steals and a slightly better A/TO. This is very similar to JWill and Dixon several years ago, IMO.

gw67

hq2
03-08-2010, 09:28 AM
It'll be close. Statistics are hard to compare, because players are on different teams. A lot of times, players on lousy teams have better stats than ones on good ones, because there isn't any one else to do anything.
(or sometimes worse, because they have to put up a lot of bad shots!).
For that reason, I think Singler will get the nod to get the last First Team all conference spot; he's been (recently) the best player on the best team; on another team, he'd be averaging maybe 23, 24 a game. That should get him on. Conversely, I think Vasquez will win MVP for two reasons; first because he clearly led a team that wasn't all that great to a conference co-championship; without him, they would have been lucky to be .500. Secondly, I think there's sort of a built-in anti-Duke bias among the writers
because they're sick of us; all other things being equal, they'll give the award to someone from another team.

allenmurray
03-08-2010, 09:39 AM
You're clearly demonstrating recency bias with these statements.

The voters will all display recency bias as well. They shouldn't, but they will.

gw67
03-08-2010, 09:56 AM
I suspect that most voters give it their best shot. Over the years, some (see Lefty Driesell) have protested about regional bias and in the early days of the ACC there may have been occasions of racial bias in picking All ACC and ACC POY. There certainly is not an openess (transparency) about who the voters are and how they vote. I suspect that it is to protect relationships between the voters and local schools. A few years ago, Barry Svrluga, who was then covering the Terps, mentioned that Post writers were not allowed to vote for all conference, etc. I presume that has not changed.
gw67

sagegrouse
03-08-2010, 10:07 AM
It's a North-Carolina centric conference. Four teams, close together --lots of medium-sized cities with reporters who get votes. It has always seemed to me there is a tilt toward the players for the four NC schools. I think it is exposure, not player or team preference, but then I have been accused of being naive on many occasions.

The local reporters get to see the local players and teams beacoup times over the course of a year. No good player for any of these teams is missed. Can't say the same for Boston College, at the northern edge of the conference (but a heckuva lot closer to the Atlantic coast than anyone but Miami). Moreover, BC is lost is a pro sports city, and the same can be said for the Hurricanes.

sagegrouse
'Almost made it to "endangered species" status, but my bud, Interior Sec'y Salazar, ruled against it, so there will still be a hunting season in mid-September'

InSpades
03-08-2010, 11:43 AM
Initially I would have given the nod to Vasquez just from looking at recent games. However as I look more at the stats I can make more of a case for Scheyer. Vasquez shoots a higher percentage, but Jon scores more points per shot (even ignoring free throws, where Jon gets to the line more and shoots a better percentage). When you compare points from FG per FGA... Jon leads at 1.0285 to 1.0131. So Jon is a more efficient field goal shooter than Vasquez. He's also a more efficient FT shooter. He's obviously a more efficient ball-handler as well. Vasquez gets 1 more assist per game at the cost of 1.5 more TOs. If you look at KenPom's "Offensive Rating" category the comparison is no comparison at all really. Those stats aren't updated for March but Scheyer is the 6th most efficient offensive player in the country. Vasquez is somewhere in the 300s.

When you look at things this way... what advantages does Vasquez have? He's a better rebounder? Vasquez has certainly been the better player down the stretch (and that may sway voters) but Jon was way better to start the year. It will be an interesting vote for sure. One last point in Jon's favor... he put up his numbers playing against a much tougher schedule than Vasquez.

Lastly... It will be a travesty if Kyle doesn't make 1st team All-ACC. He has been incredible down the stretch.

Duke3517
03-08-2010, 12:25 PM
Im not sure how the comittee evaluates what a player of the year is but if it is based on efficency Scheyer should absolutely win the award. Assist to turnover ratio is the most important stat and he clearly is light years ahead of Vasquez in that category. But again just because Maryland beat Duke the other night that might give him the nod.

gw67
03-08-2010, 12:44 PM
Im not sure how the comittee evaluates what a player of the year is but if it is based on efficency Scheyer should absolutely win the award. Assist to turnover ratio is the most important stat and he clearly is light years ahead of Vasquez in that category. But again just because Maryland beat Duke the other night that might give him the nod.

IMO, the key for POY voting will be whether all games are considered or voters limit it to in-conference games. Pomeroy's stats are for all games. In conference, Vasquez holds an edge in every stat except for A/TO, FT shooting % and steals and the differences in these areas are small. For example, in conference, Scheyer's A/TO is 2.1, whereas, Vasquez's is 1.9. That is NOT light years ahead, IMO, and it reflects a more conservative approach. Eric Hayes has an A/TO of 2.6 in ACC games.

gw67

wgl1228
03-08-2010, 01:47 PM
Will the All ACC Teams be announced today?