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jaredv23
03-04-2010, 09:36 AM
I just wanted to post this because I found that to be inappropriate. I found Gary Williams email address on their university website and voiced my opinion of that to him. I know he won't read it, or it won't even make it to his inbox. I just find that what they did last night was not called for. I am just ranting, sorry.

GO DUKE

Mr Blue Devil
03-04-2010, 09:44 AM
Sounds like Gary is ok with it. Ridiculous.



Afterward, coach Gary Williams gave some of the credit to the enthusiastic fans.

"The crowds have been great," he said. "We really appreciate that from our fans.

jdj4duke
03-04-2010, 09:49 AM
Try this- Office of the President of Turtletown

sbarone@umd.edu

davekay1971
03-04-2010, 09:50 AM
These are the same louts they've been for the last 10 years. Gary has never done anything try to improve the behavior of the Maryland fans.

It did tick me off to hear them chanting that at Scheyer, but it just goes to show their character. Scheyer is a guy who, if you're a true basketball fan, you can't help but appreciate, even if you don't like Duke. Maryland fans have never had that much class, and they never will. They're the Philadelphia Eagles fans of the ACC.

GODUKEGO
03-04-2010, 09:53 AM
You beat me to this post. The Raleigh News & Observer stated that starting from the 6 1/2 minute mark prior and during the players introduction, the Maryland fans were chanting that vulgarity. Imagine taking your twelve year old son to the game. What a tasteless and classless group. College basketball is great for the intensity of it's fans and players but there is no place for this in sports. If Gary Williams had any class, he should have went to the PA system and said something. Betcha Coach K would have. I hope we play them in the finals of the ACC tournament and destroy them worse than last year's 40 point victory in CIS. Class and character is the difference between a Crazie and a Terp!!!

Kdogg
03-04-2010, 09:59 AM
It's been going on for over a decade. Are you really surprised? The idiots think it's a "tradition." I'm shocked they didn't start riots and burn cars.

HaveFunExpectToWin
03-04-2010, 09:59 AM
Not to mention the "F*** Duke" chorus they added to 'Zombie Nation' (that annoying techno song that everyone plays).

Good thing they got this policy (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1769698) in place back in 2004, when it was "F*** You JJ"

Traffic and MD fans are the two things I hate about living in the DC area.

Misunderestimated
03-04-2010, 10:05 AM
Is that really the best they can come up with? No offense to any cavemen that might read DBR, but their chants/behavior make cavemen look really crafty and sophisticated. I'm almost numb to the F--- You stuff now and have come to expect it. Just wondering if my 5 year old will start picking up on it in a few years.

jdj4duke
03-04-2010, 10:15 AM
Y The Raleigh News & Observer stated that starting from the 6 1/2 minute mark prior and during the players introduction, the Maryland fans were chanting that vulgarity.

You should email that link to the office of the president of UMD.

sbarone@umd.edu

diablesseblu
03-04-2010, 10:16 AM
I don't look for Gary to ever intervene short of their throwing more dangerous projectiles. He probably thinks this was good motivation for his team.

Witnessed a stunning display by Gary several years ago in the looby of the Durham Hilton. His team was boarding their bus on their way to a Saturday afternoon game with the Heels.

His behavior to his players was so aberrant and profane that it reduced us Duke fans (on the way to a game in Cameron) to a stunned silence. (The players were clearly embarassed....though he wasn't.)

I know he "gets a lot out of his talent" and that coaches have "their ways" to encourage effort. Would never let a son near him given that display.

Shared this story with a famous UMd grad (former successful professional athlete). He was not at all surprised.

My last time at MD for a game was Laettner's senior year. Wore no Duke apparel and tried to blend in a bit. But it was a scary place/crowd. Will not subject myself/ my family to that again.

I sometimes wonder if Kay Yow ever discussed all of this with sister Debbie.

OldPhiKap
03-04-2010, 10:17 AM
They need an Uncle Terry letter.



(Also, not defending the Terp fans by any stretch -- but I recall yelling at Dean Smith and inviting him to eat excrement along with 9.313 of my best friends. Repeatedly and joyfully. And don't get me started on the "O" during the National Anthem, which I thought was amusing when I was a student but have grown to regret it. So let's be careful of the glass walls in the house, please.)

77devil
03-04-2010, 10:27 AM
I had an exchange of multiple emails with the Debbie Yow last year after the game in College Park about the past physical abuse and classless fan verbal behavior. She was very responsive, but her bottom line was that the school had done all it could or should to control the fans. I told her about the Avuncular Letter and K's admonishment of the Crazies over the microphone and in other ways when the fans went over Duke's line(a much higher bar of civility). She didn't provide any examples, similar or otherwise, as to what the MD admin., athletic dept. or Coach Williams had done to promote decent behavior.

I came away with the belief that she and others at MD take the position that this is normal, if not appropriate, college student behavior, and as long as no one on the court is physically abused, they'll tolerate it. We can all surmise why that is. $$$$$

RaineyDevil
03-04-2010, 10:30 AM
It's been going on for over a decade. Are you really surprised? The idiots think it's a "tradition." I'm shocked they didn't start riots and burn cars.

They did!

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/03/terps_fans_storm_the_court_rio.html

alteran
03-04-2010, 10:34 AM
They need an Uncle Terry letter.



(Also, not defending the Terp fans by any stretch -- but I recall yelling at Dean Smith and inviting him to eat excrement along with 9.313 of my best friends. Repeatedly and joyfully. And don't get me started on the "O" during the National Anthem, which I thought was amusing when I was a student but have grown to regret it. So let's be careful of the glass walls in the house, please.)

Duke fans were pretty profane 20 years ago, agreed-- but it WAS 20 years ago. I will agree to stop complaining about Maryland profanity in the 80s/90s, however. :D

I think the F-word goes over the line, but the fact of the matter is, it's becoming pretty mainstream these days.

RaineyDevil
03-04-2010, 10:37 AM
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgb/fcc475B.cfm

if you feel that strongly about it, this is the FCC website to complain about obscene tv/radio programs.

DevilDad
03-04-2010, 10:44 AM
Guys, I have not posted in over a year. But after last nights actions by the UMDs student section, I feel someone should not only contact the UMD president, but also John Swofford, urging both to take action. I spoke with my son (Trinity '09) by phone after the game, and he was unfazed by their chants of "F*** Duke". He said "Dad...It's Maryland, they have done it for years". And theres the problem. Boorish behavior is the norm, it's acceptable. Heres my question: What do you think would have happened if "K" calls a TO, confers with the officials and GW demanding action, then brings it up in the post game pressor? Thanks.

Jeffrey
03-04-2010, 10:46 AM
Duke fans were pretty profane 20 years ago, agreed-- but it WAS 20 years ago. I will agree to stop complaining about Maryland profanity in the 80s/90s, however. :D

I think the F-word goes over the line, but the fact of the matter is, it's becoming pretty mainstream these days.

The "F-word" has been "pretty mainstream" on the Duke bench for more than a quarter of a century.

IMO, OPK is correct about glass walls. Our players are very well acquainted with the "F-word".

I'm much more concerned by what Maryland fans have thrown than what they've said.

DST Fan
03-04-2010, 10:47 AM
They did!

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/03/terps_fans_storm_the_court_rio.html

I thought this comment on Steinberg's blog was pretty funny:

"A Maryland student also sent me this photo of a Duke jersey engulfed in flames. If nothing else, I suppose no one will be able to claim all those jokes about College Park riots are outdated."

Channing
03-04-2010, 10:48 AM
there is a difference, imo, between the use of the word by an individual (those are the perils of live televison) and the concerted and uniform effort of thousands of fans.

alteran
03-04-2010, 10:56 AM
The "F-word" has been "pretty mainstream" on the Duke bench for more than a quarter of a century.

IMO, OPK is correct about glass walls. Our players are very well acquainted with the "F-word".


As steven52682 said, these are totally different things. There may be an outlier in here somewhere, but people here are not complaining about bench f-words, they're complaining about crowd f-chants.

And, FWIW, I'm not one of them. I don't think much of it, but I'm certainly not getting in a twist about it. If my son asks, I'll explain the word to him and why he shouldn't use it-- unlike his old man, who sometimes blurts it out under stress. :o

Matches
03-04-2010, 10:57 AM
I'm much more concerned by what Maryland fans have thrown than what they've said.

This. Sticks and stones may break my bones, and all that...

I can't imagine that image-conscious ESPN is too thrilled with having the f-word echoing clearly on one of its broadcasts. It's pretty classless - but as others have noted, the Crazies have said and done some classless things over the years too.

My guess is that letters from Duke fans to Swofford or the UMd prez will just be seen as sour grapes and/or whinging.

It's their gym. So long as they're not breaking any laws or rules they get to act however they like.

allenmurray
03-04-2010, 10:57 AM
The "F-word" has been "pretty mainstream" on the Duke bench for more than a quarter of a century.

IMO, OPK is correct about glass walls. Our players are very well acquainted with the "F-word".

I'm much more concerned by what Maryland fans have thrown than what they've said.

I don't think our players are bothered by hearing it - It is having is chanted in unison over and over on national television that is problematic. I know better than to tune into an HBO movie or comedy special with my 11 year old next to me on the couch - but I should be able to watch a nationally televised sports broadcast without needing to worry about whether the langauge will be appropriate for family viewing.

bjornolf
03-04-2010, 10:57 AM
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgb/fcc475B.cfm

if you feel that strongly about it, this is the FCC website to complain about obscene tv/radio programs.

I find it funny that they stormed the court and rioted last night after a win over a team in a game they were favored in. Who does that?

A-Tex Devil
03-04-2010, 10:58 AM
Whatever. They are Maryland fans and always will be Maryland fans. They are the only fanbase in the ACC whose public persona matches their anonymous internet message board persona. I guess there is something noble about that (kidding). I meet UNC/State/Wake folks day to day, they are generally great people, even after they find out I went to Duke. MD fans? 9 out of 10, no way once they find out I'm from Duke. There's an inferiority complex there that is clearly never going to go away if it didn't after their great run in 2002.

But, frankly, let them be MD fans. Nobody likes them. I'm fine with that, apparently they're fine with that. If they aren't embarrassed and the administration is not embarrassed, not much that can be done.

trinity92
03-04-2010, 10:59 AM
I was appalled at the chants last night at Comcast-- more for the vulgarity and lack of imagination than the import of the chants. What were the crazies chanting at Greivis this year at cameron? On TV, it seemed like we were chanting "Greivis - something that rhymes with schmenis" but I couldn't quite make it out. The announcers' somewhat embarrassed commentary about the chant implied it was an anatomical reference. Anyone who was there can fill me in.

Not saying it's apples and apples, but wondering nonetheless.

allenmurray
03-04-2010, 11:01 AM
It's their gym. So long as they're not breaking any laws or rules they get to act however they like.

The one thing that would stop it would be ESPN informing the University of Maryland that it can no longer cover their games due to fears of being forced into non-compliance with fcc regulations. I know it will never hapen, but if it did suddenly Debbie Yow and Gary Williams would find a way to do what they have so far been unable/unwilling to do - deal with their fans.

allenmurray
03-04-2010, 11:03 AM
What were the crazies chanting at Greivis this year at cameron? On TV, it seemed like we were chanting "Greivis - something that rhymes with schmenis" but I couldn't quite make it out. The announcers' somewhat embarrassed commentary about the chant implied it was an anatomical reference.

And we could easily hera the Maryland fans. Maybe that is the difference - we are saved by the poor acoustics of CIS, whereas the Maryland fans are doomed by the superior acoustics of the Comcast Center. ;)

DevilDad
03-04-2010, 11:06 AM
allenmurray^ Good Post.... Beats the "Move along nothing to see here" attitude everytime!

TNDukeFan
03-04-2010, 11:07 AM
As a high-school teacher, I find that sometimes things just need to be said to stake out the boundaries of the appropriate, so to speak.

Here's the email I sent to the president of MD:

Hello,
You can add this spectator to those who were appalled at the behavior exhibited at last night's basketball game. I watch a ton of college basketball, and have never heard such continuously classless and profane language. "F--- Duke" and F--- You Scheyer" are indefensible. It gives anyone watching (on a national ESPN broadcast) a very negative view of your university.

Thank you.

Reisen
03-04-2010, 11:18 AM
It is, and will affect their incoming student yield, as well (how much is up for anyone to speculate... I'm not saying it's significant).

My brother-in-law has been admitted there, planned to visit, and he and his parents were pretty turned off. Looks like Clemson just got a leg up (he's visiting there instead).

91devil
03-04-2010, 11:23 AM
A few years ago, after the infamous 'FU JJ' chant game, Scott Van Pelt (a funny and talented ESPN anchor and a UMD alum) openly derided the fan base (i.e. student section) for the profane behavior (saying something to the effect of 'you just got housed by J.J. Redick for thirty points and that's how you respond?').

Mr. Van Pelt was at the game last night (sitting behind the Terps bench, not far from Juan Dixon).

I wonder if he will publicly say anything about last night's noisy vulgarity (which, IMO, was as bad as I've ever heard it), or if the difference in outcome (the Terps lost the JJ-chant game) will make a difference.

Duke Mom
03-04-2010, 11:24 AM
Maryland should take stock of the very negative portrayal of their university resulting from low class fan behavior, both verbally during the game and physically after the game. Demonstrates a lack of judgement, on the part of this administration, regarding appropriate fan behavior in the stands, and causes one to question the apparent lack of standards concerning physical safely based on post game. Certainly would make any parent think twice about sending a kid there.

The best way to get to them is through their Board of Trustees....follow the money.

CrazyNotCrazie
03-04-2010, 11:27 AM
Gary enjoys fostering this attitude that the world is out to get him and Maryland. I thought this would calm some after their title, but it is still around. I have several close friends who graduated from Maryland over 10 years ago and are rational, upstanding citizens but can't understand what is wrong with these chants - they can't recognize the difference between how Duke fans poke fun vs. the hostility of Maryland fans.

I was also upset (though not surprised) that when play stopped with less than a second remaining, Gary didn't get on the PA and tell the students not to charge the court. I thought the NCAA was trying to crack down on this behavior, and this was a perfect opportunity for him to say something.

Jeffrey
03-04-2010, 11:27 AM
there is a difference, imo, between the use of the word by an individual (those are the perils of live televison) and the concerted and uniform effort of thousands of fans.

Completely agreed.

My point is, IMO, we are not beyond reproach. IMO, there is also a substantial difference when that word repeatedly comes from a virtual idol versus a pack of adolescents.

Jeffrey
03-04-2010, 11:36 AM
I know better than to tune into an HBO movie or comedy special with my 11 year old next to me on the couch - but I should be able to watch a nationally televised sports broadcast without needing to worry about whether the langauge will be appropriate for family viewing.

Good point.

I've decided to only watch kid stations with our girl. Wonder how long she will tolerate that? :D

OldPhiKap
03-04-2010, 11:36 AM
Completely agreed.

My point is, IMO, we are not beyond reproach. IMO, there is also a substantial difference when that word repeatedly comes from a virtual idol versus a pack of adolescents.

Agreed. Neither is good when my kids are sitting next to me.

Likewise, I assume that everyone complaining about Maryland will rip K for not stopping the "Go to Hell, Carolina" chants too. Right?


Fact is, the market settles this. If the folks tuned in to watch last night and thought that UM has boorish, obnoxious, distasteful, foul, vulgar, course and common fans -- good. Having us complain about it, though, is a bit much.

We know what their fans are, and they showed it. What else is there to add?

Jeffrey
03-04-2010, 11:47 AM
Fact is, the market settles this. If the folks tuned in to watch last night and thought that UM has boorish, obnoxious, distasteful, foul, vulgar, course and common fans -- good. Having us complain about it, though, is a bit much.

We know what their fans are, and they showed it. What else is there to add?

Exactly, Duke is not the one being disgraced or harmed by the verbal behavior of UMD fans.

jdj4duke
03-04-2010, 11:54 AM
If you email the president of MD, you will get this-

Thank you for your feedback.

Athletics is often a source of great pride for the University of Maryland community. However, like institutions across the country and ACC, we do realize fan behavior at sporting events is increasingly a national issue and certainly not unique to the College Park campus. That being said, we believe all fans who attend Maryland games must understand that they represent all of us in a sense, and Maryland has been a leader in developing various initiatives to support and encourage good sportsmanship among our spectators. Admittedly, some efforts have been more effective than others, and we continue to develop new strategies in this ongoing campaign.

Of course, we do not condone or support vulgar, abusive or offensive language, actions or apparel in any way. Like at all ACC schools, we remind our fans of the ACC Sportsmanship Policy at all events. Additionally, prior to last night's game, Coach Williams sent an email to all student ticket holders requesting adherence to the Policy. We strongly encourage Maryland fans and students to pursue victory with honor and, to that end, have employed numerous other sportsmanship initiatives in recent years, including the following:

1. Our Coaches have spoken to the student sections before home games
regarding profane language and profane t-shirts.

2. Our Student Athlete Advisory Committee has recently filmed a PSA
video encouraging good sportsmanship from our fans which will soon be released on our website and in our venues.

3. Our Coaches and the Athletic Director have cosigned a letter to
the student body via The Diamondback (student newspaper) about the value of sportsmanship.

4. President Mote has stated his opinion on the importance of
sportsmanship on numerous occasions to The Diamondback. In fact, a Diamondback editorial strongly supported Dr. Mote’s thoughts 100%.

5. The Division of University Relations sponsored a Sportsmanship
Campaign entitled “Act Like You Know” (how to be a champion).

6. Both Coach Williams and Coach Friedgen taped video messages that
have been frequently run in Comcast Center and Byrd Stadium respectively.

As a public state university, we have been advised that we cannot simply eject fans from our venues for participating in vulgar cheers or wearing vulgar apparel. Such language and t-shirts, while offensive to many, remain protected free speech. Nevertheless, the University of Maryland is fully committed to conducting athletics events that reflect the excellent character and culture of our total institution. To that end, we will continue unwaveringly to pursue fan behavior that better reflects our outstanding national reputation in the dimensions of Academics, the Arts and Athletics. We expect our fans to behave like champions too.

Regards,
------------
Christopher C. Boyer
Senior Associate Athletic Director
I'm a real wanker for saying this.
University of Maryland
2619 Comcast Center
College Park, MD 20742
301.314.7171
301.314.7149 (fax)

They have given up. Hiding behind a free speech argument seems pretty poor but looks a lot like the students don't care a whit about what the admin says, and admin doesn't have a clue what to do next. It will never change, given that the students who escalated this stuff beginning years ago are now alums. They weren't embarrassed then so why should they be so now?

Put MD and VT fans in a cage fight and see who comes out.

BlueintheFace
03-04-2010, 11:55 AM
I am not effected by this, but I think it is a shame that some Duke fans cannot watch the Maryland game with their kids because of the MD student body.

YourLandlord
03-04-2010, 11:55 AM
I find it funny that they stormed the court and rioted last night after a win over a team in a game they were favored in. Who does that?
Duke was 1.5 pt favorites in the game.

hurleyfor3
03-04-2010, 11:56 AM
I was also upset (though not surprised) that when play stopped with less than a second remaining, Gary didn't get on the PA and tell the students not to charge the court. I thought the NCAA was trying to crack down on this behavior, and this was a perfect opportunity for him to say something.

This is where I stump for my proposed court-storming penalty: If you rush the court before all players and other game participants have been given a chance to safely exit, you cannot count the win in the conference standings. (It is not a forefeit, and it still counts towards making the NCAA tournament and such, and the losing team still takes the L.) Alternatively, you lose all tiebreakers with any teams you are otherwise tied with. Furthermore, if you ultimately tie for the best regular-season record, you lose any claim to the regular-season championship.

Jeffrey
03-04-2010, 12:06 PM
I am not effected by this, but I think it is a shame that some Duke fans cannot watch the Maryland game with their kids because of the MD student body.

Concerned parents can always turn the volume off. I thought Vitale was the reason my TV has a mute button. :D

Onlyduke
03-04-2010, 12:12 PM
I find the behavior of the Maryland fan base disgusting. Guess this is what happens when the inmates run the asylum.

hurleyfor3
03-04-2010, 12:16 PM
As a public state university, we have been advised that we cannot simply eject fans from our venues for participating in vulgar cheers or wearing vulgar apparel.

That's never prevented security from throwing out people at U.S. Cellular Field (owner: State of Illinois) or old Yankee Stadium (owner: City of New York) for using abusive language. And those are just the examples I've witnessed first-hand. Baseball umpires have a well-established ability to eject any fan who is causing an undue disturbance regardless of who owns the place.

And tossing someone from a public facility for criticizing one of your own players is certainly kosher if it's the Dean Dome.

should_be_working
03-04-2010, 12:17 PM
While watching the game and hearing the lovely chants of the Maryland fan base, knowing full well that if the terps held on the students would storm the court, I couldn't help but think of what would happen if we would have WON the game. If that is their reaction to their team winning, I wouldn't want to see how they would have taken a loss.

ChicagoDevil
03-04-2010, 12:18 PM
Yes, its poor behavior by the MD fans, but why spend so much time talking about MD....I certainly dont care what MD does....I hope they continue to act that way on national TV. The school administration must be so proud of them, not to mention their families.

Neals384
03-04-2010, 12:25 PM
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgb/fcc475B.cfm

if you feel that strongly about it, this is the FCC website to complain about obscene tv/radio programs.

Cable/Satellite channels aren't covered by FCC obcenty rules...

Better places to voice objections:

Comcast (sponsor of the arena)
ESPN
your local cable or satellite provider
NCAA
the ACC
UofM

Neals384
03-04-2010, 12:33 PM
If you email the president of MD, you will get this-

Thank you for your feedback.

Athletics is often a source of great pride for the University of Maryland community. However, like institutions across the country and ACC, we do realize fan behavior at sporting events is increasingly a national issue and certainly not unique to the College Park campus. That being said, we believe all fans who attend Maryland games must understand that they represent all of us in a sense, and Maryland has been a leader in developing various initiatives to support and encourage good sportsmanship among our spectators. Admittedly, some efforts have been more effective than others, and we continue to develop new strategies in this ongoing campaign.

Of course, we do not condone or support vulgar, abusive or offensive language, actions or apparel in any way. Like at all ACC schools, we remind our fans of the ACC Sportsmanship Policy at all events. Additionally, prior to last night's game, Coach Williams sent an email to all student ticket holders requesting adherence to the Policy. We strongly encourage Maryland fans and students to pursue victory with honor and, to that end, have employed numerous other sportsmanship initiatives in recent years, including the following:

1. Our Coaches have spoken to the student sections before home games
regarding profane language and profane t-shirts.

2. Our Student Athlete Advisory Committee has recently filmed a PSA
video encouraging good sportsmanship from our fans which will soon be released on our website and in our venues.

3. Our Coaches and the Athletic Director have cosigned a letter to
the student body via The Diamondback (student newspaper) about the value of sportsmanship.

4. President Mote has stated his opinion on the importance of
sportsmanship on numerous occasions to The Diamondback. In fact, a Diamondback editorial strongly supported Dr. Mote’s thoughts 100%.

5. The Division of University Relations sponsored a Sportsmanship
Campaign entitled “Act Like You Know” (how to be a champion).

6. Both Coach Williams and Coach Friedgen taped video messages that
have been frequently run in Comcast Center and Byrd Stadium respectively.

As a public state university, we have been advised that we cannot simply eject fans from our venues for participating in vulgar cheers or wearing vulgar apparel. Such language and t-shirts, while offensive to many, remain protected free speech. Nevertheless, the University of Maryland is fully committed to conducting athletics events that reflect the excellent character and culture of our total institution. To that end, we will continue unwaveringly to pursue fan behavior that better reflects our outstanding national reputation in the dimensions of Academics, the Arts and Athletics. We expect our fans to behave like champions too.

Regards,
------------
Christopher C. Boyer
Senior Associate Athletic Director
I'm a real wanker for saying this.
University of Maryland
2619 Comcast Center
College Park, MD 20742
301.314.7171
301.314.7149 (fax)

They have given up. Hiding behind a free speech argument seems pretty poor but looks a lot like the students don't care a whit about what the admin says, and admin doesn't have a clue what to do next. It will never change, given that the students who escalated this stuff beginning years ago are now alums. They weren't embarrassed then so why should they be so now?

Put MD and VT fans in a cage fight and see who comes out.

Thanks for posting their reply. I'ts complete BS. I've just spent a half hour on the UofM web site, looking for anything that wouild tell their fans not to use profanity....it's not there.

Here's a link to the Comcast Fan Guide (http://www.umterps.com/facilities/md-comcast-center-A_Z.html) which says nothing to discourage profanity. It does say "Signs may not contain commercial messages or logos". So how is that any less of a free speech issue than banning profanity?



Excuse me, I have to go take a shower now...

duke4life32182
03-04-2010, 12:40 PM
My 4 year old son (5 in April) was picking up on it last night. He wanted to know why they were saying that. Their fans are nothing like the crazies. Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Exiled_Devil
03-04-2010, 12:47 PM
Agreed. Neither is good when my kids are sitting next to me.

Likewise, I assume that everyone complaining about Maryland will rip K for not stopping the "Go to Hell, Carolina" chants too. Right?


Fact is, the market settles this. If the folks tuned in to watch last night and thought that UM has boorish, obnoxious, distasteful, foul, vulgar, course and common fans -- good. Having us complain about it, though, is a bit much.

We know what their fans are, and they showed it. What else is there to add?

GTHC is a differnet level of profanity than F**^ck. ONe can be said on the air, one can't.

Your faith in the 'the market' is cute and all, but that is a ridiculous concept to apply to the permission of inappropriate behavior. Complaining about it - to the appropriate people - is exactly how one should react to this.

What else is there to add? How about this:

As a parent, I expect to be able to watch a college basketball game without having to deal with non-stop, audible profanity drowning out the sideline people. I expect a television channel to police this, and if not, then the FCC. If a show is rated TV-MA, then my child doesn't get to watch it. However, I have never considered Duke basketball games a mature content area. I let my 3 year old watch games all the time, and he loves it. However, a 3 year old should not be exposed to that level of profanity. It is unnecessary and in this case, possibly illegal.

I want to see fines.

Exiled_Devil
03-04-2010, 12:50 PM
Cable/Satellite channels aren't covered by FCC obcenty rules...

Better places to voice objections:

Comcast (sponsor of the arena)
ESPN
your local cable or satellite provider
NCAA
the ACC
UofM


From the FCC (http://www.fcc.gov/eb/oip/FAQ.html)website:

Do the FCC's rules apply to cable and satellite programming? In the past, the FCC has enforced the indecency and profanity prohibitions only against conventional broadcast services, not against subscription programming services such as cable and satellite. However, the prohibition against obscene programming applies to subscription programming services at all times.

NSDukeFan
03-04-2010, 12:56 PM
It's their gym. So long as they're not breaking any laws or rules they get to act however they like.

Could Roy get them all kicked out of the gym?

jaredv23
03-04-2010, 12:59 PM
After replying to the "standard" email from MD, I get this:

Thanks. Please trust that we are and have been doing something. We
will continue.
Also, please know every response I send is personal. This is a personal
issue for me.

Thank you again for your thoughtful feedback.

------------
Christopher C. Boyer
Senior Associate Athletic Director

University of Maryland
2619 Comcast Center
College Park, MD 20742
301.314.7171
301.314.7149 (fax)

Neals384
03-04-2010, 01:01 PM
By the way, Duke could have been awarded two free throws at any time:

Art. 9 Team followers, as in Rule 4-27, shall not commit an unsportsmanlike
act, including, but not limited to, the following:
...
e. Using profanity or language that is abusive, vulgar or obscene.

Note 1: Before penalizing a follower(s) of a team for violating Rule
10-2.9, the officials shall have knowledge as to which team’s
follower(s) committed the act.

Note 2: When the misconduct of the follower(s) is extreme or excessive,
such behavior may be penalized by the official requesting home/
contest management to eject from the premises the team follower(s)
involved in the misbehavior. In such a case, a technical foul shall
not be assessed.

PENALTY: (Art. 9) Two free throws awarded to the offended team. The
ball shall be put back in play at the point of interruption.

rebels07
03-04-2010, 01:04 PM
I also got the generic reply. I took it one step further by replying with a "thank you" of sorts. But i thought you all would like the story I shared with this guy. For background's sake, I go to VCU in Richmond.

Thanks for the reply. I didn't expect that to even get read by anyone. I'm glad you all are working on behavior, but you have a long way to go. As I talked to a friend's father about his experience as a fan rooting for the visiting team at a VCU home game, he replied, "We were treated pretty well. I was impressed. I was worried you guys were going to be like Maryland fans and curse us out of the building."

Richard Berg
03-04-2010, 01:13 PM
Tip: if you have a surround-sound setup, try muting the rear channels. That's where almost all of the "crowd mics" are mixed into. Worst case, put the center channel on solo. No more f-words.

(I often do the opposite: muting just the center channel to make the commentators shut up, while the rest of the speakers keep me firmly engrossed in the action -- sneaker squeaks, rim clangs, crowd ambience, & all, without having to ever hear Mike Patrick's voice! With the studio guys out of the picture it's usually easy to hear what the stadium announcer is saying, so you can keep track of fouls etc. Not that most studio guys actually talk about relevant facts...)

Richard Berg
03-04-2010, 01:16 PM
Ooh, "Jimmy" Sparkanel. Hate to ruin that.

Anyway, closer to the topic at hand: I dare anyone to find me a Duke game tape in which you can't see Coach K mouth a super obvious f-word. There had to be a half-dozen in yesterday's broadcast alone.

RockLobster
03-04-2010, 01:27 PM
Another thing I'd like to point out:

There are plenty of people who would say that Duke fans are no better since we'll certainly swear when things happen we don't like, or that K curses like a sailor at the refs.

However, there's a fundamental difference here.

When you let loose a few choice words because you're upset with a situation (as I have admittedly done quite a few times while an undergrad at Duke), that's one thing.

BUT, when you repeatedly chant it en masse and direct it at a specific player or group of players, that goes totally beyond swearing a few times in frustration. When you do this, you're flaunting it, you're making a show out of it. You're basically telling the world that you're proud of the way you're speaking...and of course, they were on national TV, too.

A-Tex Devil
03-04-2010, 01:28 PM
I think the time has come to stop being outraged at MD fans, and just pat them on the head and say "isn't that cute how vulgar you are?"

Last night was their Super Bowl. Not to seem snobby, but that's no way for a school less than a decade removed from a national championship should act. Unless it's Maryland. The inferiority complex of their fans creates a self-fulfilling prophecy that it's a second tier program, and always will be.

OldPhiKap
03-04-2010, 01:31 PM
GTHC is a differnet level of profanity than F**^ck. ONe can be said on the air, one can't.

Your faith in the 'the market' is cute and all, but that is a ridiculous concept to apply to the permission of inappropriate behavior. Complaining about it - to the appropriate people - is exactly how one should react to this.

What else is there to add? How about this:

As a parent, I expect to be able to watch a college basketball game without having to deal with non-stop, audible profanity drowning out the sideline people. I expect a television channel to police this, and if not, then the FCC. If a show is rated TV-MA, then my child doesn't get to watch it. However, I have never considered Duke basketball games a mature content area. I let my 3 year old watch games all the time, and he loves it. However, a 3 year old should not be exposed to that level of profanity. It is unnecessary and in this case, possibly illegal.

I want to see fines.



They differ in degree, but neither one is appropriateness for young ears. If that's the argument.

If you want to complain, fine. My point is that I have heard similar language in Cameron when I was a student; I hear it from our players when they get called for a foul or miss a shot; I have seen and heard it from our coach. I believe that Kyle got caught with a similar word last night after a whistle IIRC. Our students were apparently chanting something vulgar and inappropriate at "rhymes with Greivis" Vasquez as recently as a few weeks ago if I read the post above correctly.

I don't condone any of it, and I agree that MD students are way over the top. But I don't want to be a hypocrite about it, either. I am sure you realize that Duke fans complaining about cursing is viewed as irony by many outside of our circle. And I have to state that I agree with the masses on this one. The fact is that the state of "fandom" in this country is very uncivil. While MD is a particularly bad example, let's not pretend that we are pure in this regard.

You may think my comment on the free market is "cute." I say it works. When Duke got called out for "majoring in smart-@$#@" by the Washington Post (IIRC), we self-policed with the guidance of Uncle Terry. If MD is interested in its reputation it will do the same. If it's not, that wlll out itself as well.

(And, as far as I'm concerned, Dean Smith can still eat @#$@#. So just color me a bad fan too).

DukieInKansas
03-04-2010, 01:34 PM
I guess I can be grateful to either bad hearing or bad sound on my tv. I always have a hard time making out what fans in any location are chanting.

Franzez
03-04-2010, 01:35 PM
I think the time has come to stop being outraged at MD fans, and just pat them on the head and say "isn't that cute how vulgar you are?"

Last night was their Super Bowl. Not to seem snobby, but that's no way for a school less than a decade removed from a national championship should act. Unless it's Maryland. The inferiority complex of their fans creates a self-fulfilling prophecy that it's a second tier program, and always will be.

Well said.

But the outrage is well deserved for the sake of this is being an institution of higher learning that actually has clean sports programs in terms of basketball and football. I dont understand the appeal of beating Duke and then proceeding to light things on fire, bust windows, and intimidate Duke fans trying to get the hell out of there.

Disgusting.

I dont see any other ACC programs fans going on a rampage around their campus after winning against a "rival".

allenmurray
03-04-2010, 01:35 PM
Good point.

I've decided to only watch kid stations with our girl. Wonder how long she will tolerate that? :D

Actually some of the programming on Disney and Nickelodeon is fairly cute and inspired (much better production values than kids programs just 15 or 20 years ago). It isn't something I would have chosen (I use the past tense as my kids are now 11 and 15) if I didn't have kids, but it is/was entertaining enough that I would sit through a few episodes just so once in a while we could watch TV together as a family.

OldPhiKap
03-04-2010, 01:36 PM
Oh, and a question becuase I do not know the answer:

During the Duke fight song, when I was a student, the line "Carolina, good night" was always followed by the entire student body yelling "eat @#$@#!" Has that stopped, or are doing the same thing MD does -- just more clever in our own minds?

dukestheheat
03-04-2010, 01:36 PM
The Maryland basketball crowd is historically boorish so I'm not at all surprised by the newest 'events' to come up on their record. I don't have any respect for their fandom at all; couple years ago, I was walking into Boulineu's grocery store, wearing my Duke t-shirt, at Cherry Grove Beach (our house is close to there and I was there kiteboarding), SC, and a guy wearing a Maryland t-shirt comes up to me and shouts some incredibly epletive deleteds (about Coach K) about 1 foot from my face. He seemed out of control and he was obviously unbalanced. It was about 1000 am so I don't think he was intoxicated at all: he was just jealous and feeling rather inferior.

I let him finish and then I politely reminded him that DUKE has forgotten more about winning National Championships in college basketball than Maryland is EVER going to learn.

This shut him up, promptly. I got him good on that one, I will say.

dth.

OldPhiKap
03-04-2010, 01:37 PM
Actually some of the programming on Disney and Nickelodeon is fairly cute and inspired (much better production values than kids programs just 15 or 20 years ago). It isn't something I would have chosen (I use the past tense as my kids are now 11 and 15) if I didn't have kids, but it is/was entertaining enough that I would sit through a few episodes just so once in a while we could watch TV together as a family.

Phineas and Ferb is the best show on TV.

DUKIE V(A)
03-04-2010, 01:40 PM
The "F ___ chants" are pathetic and clearly out of line. As one of the early posters stated, they are the Philadelphia Eagles fans of the NCAA. Gary must be too busy focusing on his lousy record vs. Duke and yelling at his players to do anything about it. He's a good coach but not a very admirable one in my eyes.

Credit to Maryland for being the better team last night...They played very well land deserved to win. Something tells me they will be suffering many more double-digit beatdowns at the hand of K and his boys in the coming years so they had better enjoy it. Unfortunately, I do not think they will be around long enough in the ACC Tourney to get beaten again by Duke this season.

Richard Berg
03-04-2010, 01:42 PM
I dont see any other ACC programs fans going on a rampage around their campus after winning against a "rival".
How easily we forget the systematization of "bonfire permits" on Main West. The phrase sounds laughable every time I write it, but the current arrangement came about for a reason, you know.


Oh, and a question becuase I do not know the answer:

During the Duke fight song, when I was a student, the line "Carolina, good night" was always followed by the entire student body yelling "eat @#$@#!" Has that stopped, or are doing the same thing MD does -- just more clever in our own minds?
Not as common as ~5yr ago, but definitely still around.

On the bright side, "Hi XXX, you suck!" during warmups seems to finally be waning. Even so, I'm pretty sure we have the coaches to thank for this one, not the enlightenment of our student body.

loldevilz
03-04-2010, 01:54 PM
It's been going on for over a decade. Are you really surprised? The idiots think it's a "tradition." I'm shocked they didn't start riots and burn cars.

Well they brought out the riot police...that's probably the only reason it didn't get more out of hand. Dana O'Neil posted that she feared for her life during the last few minutes even though she had 8 body guards around her. I'm not surprised. Nolan also tweeted that his parents were harassed.

I feel like Williams doesn't feel responsible or connected to his fan base. Its the exact opposite of Coach K who takes complete responsibility for how his fans act. That's why the Crazies are respected and the Turtles aren't even though both are very fanatical.

OldPhiKap
03-04-2010, 01:56 PM
Not as common as ~5yr ago, but definitely still around.

Thanks for the answer, RB! -- OPK

PumpkinFunk
03-04-2010, 01:59 PM
On the bright side, "Hi XXX, you suck!" during warmups seems to finally be waning. Even so, I'm pretty sure we have the coaches to thank for this one, not the enlightenment of our student body.

It's the Line Monitors actually, not the coaches/team (I think), but you should expect that chant back on Saturday - Carolina is traditionally the only team that gets the "You suck" welcome.

91_92_01_10_15
03-04-2010, 02:04 PM
Oh, and a question becuase I do not know the answer:

During the Duke fight song, when I was a student, the line "Carolina, good night" was always followed by the entire student body yelling "eat @#$@#!" Has that stopped, or are doing the same thing MD does -- just more clever in our own minds?
I think this equates well to speeding. Does the person driving 60 in a 55 have the right to criticize the person driving 75? I presume from your posts here that you think not. I, speaking as the person usually driving 75, agree. However, sadly the state troopers do not.

Until the troopers (MD administration or coaching staff, refs) decide to enforce the rule as written earlier, Duke fans are going to keep driving 60 and MD fans will keep driving 75, IMO.

SharkD
03-04-2010, 02:05 PM
It's their gym. So long as they're not breaking any laws or rules they get to act however they like.

They are breaking the rules, according to the NCAA:
Art. 9 Team followers, as in Rule 4-27, shall not commit an unsportsmanlike act, including, but not limited to, the following:[snip]
e. Using profanity or language that is abusive, vulgar or obscene.

The referees would have been well within their rights to assess the bench a Technical Foul for crowd vulgarity.

---

I seem to recall a game 6 or 7 years ago, when Coach Krzyzewski called a timeout and took to the PA microphone to tell the students that if they didn't clean-up their language, he would forfeit the game. Or am I making that up?

A-Tex Devil
03-04-2010, 02:06 PM
Well said.

But the outrage is well deserved for the sake of this is being an institution of higher learning that actually has clean sports programs in terms of basketball and football. I dont understand the appeal of beating Duke and then proceeding to light things on fire, bust windows, and intimidate Duke fans trying to get the hell out of there.

But let it be Maryland's problem. My point is, if they continue to behave like this (and so long as no one is physically in danger -- and crowd rushing aside, they seemed to leave our players alone last night in that regard), our reaction should just be "Oh, Maryland. It's hilarious how you demean yourself and keep your program one or three notches below where it could be. Keep it up."

K-FRICKING-STATE fans, who haven't won anything since the Nose was in school there, made a point NOT to rush the court win they beat then #1 Texas. I thought it was awesome and a testament to where they think their program might go. Maryland fans clearly think last night was the best they'll get and celebrated "appropriately."

OldPhiKap
03-04-2010, 02:07 PM
I think this equates well to speeding. Does the person driving 60 in a 55 have the right to criticize the person driving 75? I presume from your posts here that you think not. I, speaking as the person usually driving 75, agree. However, sadly the state troopers do not.

Until the troopers (MD administration or coaching staff, refs) decide to enforce the rule as written earlier, Duke fans are going to keep driving 60 and MD fans will keep driving 75, IMO.

Sounds about right.

Matches
03-04-2010, 02:18 PM
They are breaking the rules, according to the NCAA:

The referees would have been well within their rights to assess the bench a Technical Foul for crowd vulgarity.

---



Eh - by that standard the Crazies should have been assessed several technicals over the years. I've heard several chants of "bull****" after a bad call just this season.

I'm not totally dense, so I get that "F*** you" is worse than "Go to Hell", but both are profane.

I don't particularly care to hear stuff like that during a college bball game either (I do have my young kids in the room sometimes), but change has to come either from the university or the network. After decades of cultivating a reputation for being brutally harsh to opposing players and coaches, sometimes including profanity in our taunts, we as Duke fans just don't have standing to complain that the other fans are offending us because they're saying mean things.

noyac
03-04-2010, 02:22 PM
I think the fans were bad for not just Maryland but also the whole ACC. This game was hyped for days and I am sure there were quite a few non-ACC fans that tuned in to see a game with this much on the line. What they saw was a great game but they also got to hear things that might make them think twice about watching Maryland again and possibly the ACC again.

allenmurray
03-04-2010, 02:25 PM
Phineas and Ferb is the best show on TV.

When my 11 year old son and I watch it together we both laugh at the absurdity. We really like it - pure silliness aimed right at the heart of an 11 year old boy and a 49 year old man trying his best to recapture his 11 year old boyness.

ReformedAggie
03-04-2010, 02:29 PM
it is what it is.
The scene on Rte. 1 last night was shameful.
And kids got arrested.
It's nice to know that beating us brings out the "best"
in folks.
They all seem to think it's ok to behave that way, so
there is nothing to do but say, "it is what it is", and
go about being better than that.
You can lose a game, but to lose your dignity is so much worse.

GODUKEGO
03-04-2010, 02:41 PM
Yes, its poor behavior by the MD fans, but why spend so much time talking about MD....I certainly dont care what MD does....I hope they continue to act that way on national TV. The school administration must be so proud of them, not to mention their families.

They graduate 10% of their basketball players. Should we really expect the administration or the students to act differently. There are a total embarrassment!!! Attached is a link on Maryland's site for Academic Honors. I thought this was odd for a university of higher education that graduates 10% of their basketball players. The last member was in the 2000-2001 school year. Notice the names, they are also some of Maryland's top players. They are who we thought they were!!!

http://www.umterps.com/sports/m-bask...ic_honors.html

Graduation rates:
http://www.tidesport.org/Grad%20Rates/2009_Mens_Bball_PR.pdf

Exiled_Devil
03-04-2010, 02:47 PM
They differ in degree, but neither one is appropriateness for young ears. If that's the argument.

If you want to complain, fine. My point is that I have heard similar language in Cameron when I was a student; I hear it from our players when they get called for a foul or miss a shot; I have seen and heard it from our coach. I believe that Kyle got caught with a similar word last night after a whistle IIRC. Our students were apparently chanting something vulgar and inappropriate at "rhymes with Greivis" Vasquez as recently as a few weeks ago if I read the post above correctly.

I don't condone any of it, and I agree that MD students are way over the top. But I don't want to be a hypocrite about it, either. I am sure you realize that Duke fans complaining about cursing is viewed as irony by many outside of our circle. And I have to state that I agree with the masses on this one. The fact is that the state of "fandom" in this country is very uncivil. While MD is a particularly bad example, let's not pretend that we are pure in this regard.

You may think my comment on the free market is "cute." I say it works. When Duke got called out for "majoring in smart-@$#@" by the Washington Post (IIRC), we self-policed with the guidance of Uncle Terry. If MD is interested in its reputation it will do the same. If it's not, that wlll out itself as well.

(And, as far as I'm concerned, Dean Smith can still eat @#$@#. So just color me a bad fan too).

The big issue for me is that the foul language is clearly audible, repeated and drowning out the announcers. I counted at least 20 f-bombs over the course of 2 time outs.

I can forgive an occasional, lip-read f-bomb (I don't begrudge GV's his 'let's go MotherF&(#ers' near the end) but there are several levels of irresponsibility that is a violation of broadcast regulations and the NCAA rules that need to be addressed in this situation. ESPN, the Terps basketball team, the University; someone needs to be reprimanded officially for letting this continue to be broadcast.


The example of Uncle Terry isn't a market response, and if that's what you meant, sorry for the misunderstanding. I have poor reactions to people over-applying the metaphor of commercial market to other interactions, as market dynamics are a poor substitute for other, non-commerce relationships.

alteran
03-04-2010, 02:50 PM
I think this equates well to speeding. Does the person driving 60 in a 55 have the right to criticize the person driving 75? I presume from your posts here that you think not. I, speaking as the person usually driving 75, agree. However, sadly the state troopers do not.

Until the troopers (MD administration or coaching staff, refs) decide to enforce the rule as written earlier, Duke fans are going to keep driving 60 and MD fans will keep driving 75, IMO.

Great analogy.

TNDukeFan
03-04-2010, 02:59 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=4961547

I didn't cut and paste this, this is the first "if" he writes:

"From now on, you can NOT rush the court if …

* • You've won an NCAA title in the past 20 years."

OldPhiKap
03-04-2010, 03:24 PM
The big issue for me is that the foul language is clearly audible, repeated and drowning out the announcers. I counted at least 20 f-bombs over the course of 2 time outs.

I can forgive an occasional, lip-read f-bomb (I don't begrudge GV's his 'let's go MotherF&(#ers' near the end) but there are several levels of irresponsibility that is a violation of broadcast regulations and the NCAA rules that need to be addressed in this situation. ESPN, the Terps basketball team, the University; someone needs to be reprimanded officially for letting this continue to be broadcast.


The example of Uncle Terry isn't a market response, and if that's what you meant, sorry for the misunderstanding. I have poor reactions to people over-applying the metaphor of commercial market to other interactions, as market dynamics are a poor substitute for other, non-commerce relationships.


We are in agreement on all points, Exile, and I apologize if my meaning was not clear or if my metaphor was clumsy. -- OPK

jdj4duke
03-04-2010, 03:29 PM
it is what it is.

You can lose a game, but to lose your dignity is so much worse.

Great post with one correction- it is impossible to lose what one likely never possessed.

mph
03-04-2010, 03:36 PM
On the bright side, "Hi XXX, you suck!" during warmups seems to finally be waning. Even so, I'm pretty sure we have the coaches to thank for this one, not the enlightenment of our student body.

I think that's the issue. Much more fault lies with the leadership of the university than the students. I'm convinced that Gary Williams could stop this by just once publicly chiding the students during a televised game. All of the supposed steps the UMD administrators have taken to curb this behavior are nothing more than an attempt to create plausible deniability. The students know the administration isn't serious because the Gary and Kay look the other way during games. "We can't kick them out" is a red herring. Even if they can't kick them out, which I highly doubt, nothing's stopping Gary from getting on the PA system and taking the students to task.

Fully agree with AM - I can explain to my 6 year-old twins why that language is unacceptable, but is that something I should have to factor in to the decision to watch a basketball game?

OldPhiKap
03-04-2010, 03:46 PM
I think that's the issue. Much more fault lies with the leadership of the university than the students. I'm convinced that Gary Williams could stop this by just once publicly chiding the students during a televised game. All of the supposed steps the UMD administrators have taken to curb this behavior are nothing more than an attempt to create plausible deniability. The students know the administration isn't serious because the Gary and Kay look the other way during games. "We can't kick them out" is a red herring. Even if they can't kick them out, which I highly doubt, nothing's stopping Gary from getting on the PA system and taking the students to task.

Fully agree with AM - I can explain to my 6 year-old twins why that language is unacceptable, but is that something I should have to factor in to the decision to watch a basketball game?

If Roy can have someone kicked out for yelling "miss a free throw!" then Gary can have folks thrown out here.

The First Amendment does not allow you to curse in public in a tumultuous manner. That's called "inciting a riot" or "public nuisance" and such cases are prosecuted every day. It's the same reason that you can't yell "fire!" in a theatre or make a joke about a bomb on a plane. It is not protected speech.

DevilDad
03-04-2010, 03:50 PM
They graduate 10% of their basketball players. Should we really expect the administration or the students to act differently. There are a total embarrassment!!! Attached is a link on Maryland's site for Academic Honors. I thought this was odd for a university of higher education that graduates 10% of their basketball players. The last member was in the 2000-2001 school year. Notice the names, they are also some of Maryland's top players. They are who we thought they were!!!

http://www.umterps.com/sports/m-bask...ic_honors.html

Graduation rates:
http://www.tidesport.org/Grad%20Rates/2009_Mens_Bball_PR.pdf

What's the motto of UMD athletics?....."Fear The Classroom"

brian2007
03-04-2010, 03:51 PM
Does anyone have a link to the Scott Van Pelt letter to Maryland after the F*** you JJ chants?

allenmurray
03-04-2010, 03:56 PM
The students know the administration isn't serious because the Gary and Kay look the other way during games. "We can't kick them out" is a red herring.


I know it was just a slip of the finger, but . . . Debbie Yow is the AD at Maryland, not Kay. Kay got all the dignity, class, and backbone in the family, which I suppose is why Debbie has none. It is hard to fathom that they are sisters.

diablesseblu
03-04-2010, 04:02 PM
I know it was just a slip of the finger, but . . . Debbie Yow is the AD at Maryland, not Kay. Kay got all the dignity, class, and backbone in the family, which I suppose is why Debbie has none. It is hard to fathom that they are sisters.


According to Yow family friends, Kay and Debbie have always been very different. It's hard (even for people who saw them grow up) to fathom that they are sisters.

mph
03-04-2010, 04:05 PM
I know it was just a slip of the finger, but . . . Debbie Yow is the AD at Maryland, not Kay. Kay got all the dignity, class, and backbone in the family, which I suppose is why Debbie has none. It is hard to fathom that they are sisters.

Ouch. I surely regret that slip-up. Thanks for the correction.

left_hook_lacey
03-04-2010, 04:08 PM
They are breaking the rules, according to the NCAA:

The referees would have been well within their rights to assess the bench a Technical Foul for crowd vulgarity.

---

I seem to recall a game 6 or 7 years ago, when Coach Krzyzewski called a timeout and took to the PA microphone to tell the students that if they didn't clean-up their language, he would forfeit the game. Or am I making that up?

Yeah, but how often does that happen? If the refs did call that everytime, there would be a technical called at everygame, including Duke home games. Some places there would be several.

How many times have you heard the home crowd chant a uniform "Bull Sh*t" chant after a bad call? I'd bet it happens at 75% of the games played around the country. I don't hear it at the Duke's and UNC's of the world as much, but it does/has happened.

Every school is guilty of it. To be honest, I don't want either of my children hear "F-U" chants at a game, or watching it on TV. But I hate it when they hear the "Go to Hell" chant as well. To me, if they repeated either one of those phrases(F-U or Go to Hell) , I would feel guilty for having exposed them to it.

Duvall
03-04-2010, 04:10 PM
Yeah, but how often does that happen? If the refs did call that everytime, there would be a technical called at everygame, including Duke home games. Some places there would be several.


That would probably put a stop to it real quick, though.

If the league wanted to fix its Maryland problem, it could. It has chosen not to.

noyac
03-04-2010, 04:16 PM
I'm convinced that Gary Williams could stop this by just once publicly chiding the students during a televised game...

I agree even Bobby Huggins got on the PA to tell the fans they need to stop throwing things on the court this year. I don't particularly like Huggins but I respect that he did that. He wasn't nice about it either if I recall he said that it was stupid or dumb because players can get hurt.

ChicagoDevil
03-04-2010, 04:37 PM
What's the motto of UMD athletics?....."Fear The Classroom"

Now, Id love to see those signs in the Cameron crowd!

BlueintheFace
03-04-2010, 04:52 PM
Now, Id love to see those signs in the Cameron crowd!

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2008/sioncampus/02/26/abusive.fans0303/p1_duke.jpg

Done

Jeffrey
03-04-2010, 04:54 PM
Actually some of the programming on Disney and Nickelodeon is fairly cute and inspired (much better production values than kids programs just 15 or 20 years ago). It isn't something I would have chosen (I use the past tense as my kids are now 11 and 15) if I didn't have kids, but it is/was entertaining enough that I would sit through a few episodes just so once in a while we could watch TV together as a family.

My baby sits on my lap and we watch about 1 hour of Sprout and Nick Jr. every day. It's frequently my favorite hour of my day.

HaveFunExpectToWin
03-04-2010, 04:55 PM
Now, Id love to see those signs in the Cameron crowd!

It's been done recently.

Kfanarmy
03-04-2010, 04:57 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2008/sioncampus/02/26/abusive.fans0303/p1_duke.jpg

Done
But they aren't RIVALs right. ;)

cato
03-04-2010, 04:59 PM
------------
Christopher C. Boyer
Senior Associate Athletic Director
I'm a real wanker for saying this.
University of Maryland
2619 Comcast Center
College Park, MD 20742
301.314.7171
301.314.7149 (fax)


Awesome.

cato
03-04-2010, 05:03 PM
The First Amendment does not allow you to curse in public in a tumultuous manner. That's called "inciting a riot" or "public nuisance" and such cases are prosecuted every day. It's the same reason that you can't yell "fire!" in a theatre or make a joke about a bomb on a plane. It is not protected speech.

Not so sure that I see the connection. The old, "yelling 'fire!' in a theater" or making a joke about a bomb on a plane are in a distinct category where there is a reasonable expectation of immediate danger. The only reasonable expectation of immediate danger last night were (a) to my eyeballs from all the horrible yellow, and (b) to the players and other people trying to get off the court.

Instead, this is just plain speech. I'm not really up on my first amendment law, but if we have to live with childish chants from MD students in exchange for broad and robust protection of free speech, I'm cool with that trade.

1999ballboy
03-04-2010, 05:07 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2008/sioncampus/02/26/abusive.fans0303/p1_duke.jpg

Done
The signs are good, but wearing a cap and gown to a basketball game has got to be the lamest thing I've ever seen. It's snobbish, and a perfect example of why people hate Duke.

On a sort of similar note, I'm all for not brandishing opposing fans as "classless." While an accurate description of the fans' actions last night, it becomes pathetic and meaningless when used as an epithet. Like they care. We can be more clever and less vulgar than Maryland fans without being snobbish about it.

Jeffrey
03-04-2010, 05:09 PM
I can explain to my 6 year-old twins why that language is unacceptable, but is that something I should have to factor in to the decision to watch a basketball game?

It probably will be a consideration as soon as your twins can read K's lips.

JamminJoe
03-04-2010, 06:05 PM
There's really no reason to get riled up about their behavior. They are proud of their boorishness and probably get a chuckle out of threads like this.

Do we care when UNC fans call us classless?

roywhite
03-04-2010, 06:12 PM
There's really no reason to get riled up about their behavior. They are proud of their boorishness and probably get a chuckle out of threads like this.

Do we care when UNC fans call us classless?

Call me old fashioned, JamminJoe...

I don't like it when:
1. Maryland fans chant F-U at one of our players
2. Maryland fans chant F- Duke
3. Terp fans shout the same thing or worse about the family of our players (example: the Redicks)
4. Terp fans spit on our players
5. Terp fans throw things at our players or their families

I don't find an equivalence between Maryland fans on one hand and Duke and UNC fans on the other.

I don't know if you find them to be the same, if you are a troll, or what. Go hang out with the Terp fans if you choose.

Duvall
03-04-2010, 06:17 PM
There's really no reason to get riled up about their behavior. They are proud of their boorishness and probably get a chuckle out of threads like this.

Who cares? That's their problem.


Do we care when UNC fans call us classless?

Only when it's true.

BlueintheFace
03-04-2010, 06:31 PM
But they aren't RIVALs right. ;)

As somebody who has been at a whole lot of the home games this past decade, I can honestly say that I do not believe that Maryland is received with any more ceremony or emphasis than other quality ACC teams. When they are good, the game becomes more important and the crazies get up for it. When they are not so good, it is business as usual in Cameron. That indicates to me that they are not rivals at all.

You can not say the same for Carolina.

BlueintheFace
03-04-2010, 06:34 PM
The signs are good, but wearing a cap and gown to a basketball game has got to be the lamest thing I've ever seen. It's snobbish, and a perfect example of why people hate Duke.

On a sort of similar note, I'm all for not brandishing opposing fans as "classless." While an accurate description of the fans' actions last night, it becomes pathetic and meaningless when used as an epithet. Like they care. We can be more clever and less vulgar than Maryland fans without being snobbish about it.

I can see why you would think that, but I have to give some context and correct you here.

The cap and gown had significance as the most recent graduation rates had just come out and Maryland was found to have graduated 0% of it's basketball players at the time.

It was not boorish at all, but actually quite clever and appropriate.

barbarella
03-04-2010, 07:00 PM
If the administration at UMD truly wanted to curb some of the vulgar chanting, they absolutely could.

I work in the athletic department of a small, private college, and what I noticed last night was that, although the students kept chanting, "F*ck Duke" when 'Zombie Nation' was played - it was played over, and over, and over again.

I am responsible for the music played at our athletic events here where I work, and I know that SOMEONE that works at UMD has direct control over the music that is played in their arena.

The fact that the song was played at every time out is a direct endorsement of what they were chanting, IMO.

Just my two cents, though. First-time poster, although I used to post a LOT back when I was a Duke undergrad ('98-'02).

mapei
03-04-2010, 07:18 PM
I despise Maryland fans with a passion, and this is why. I don't think much of their psychotic-seeming, perptually angry coach's personality, either.

By and large, I don't have anything against their players, who are really not much better or worse than college basketball players everywhere. Some of them seem like good guys.

To those who say, just forget about it, that is impossible if you live in the DC area. The night before the game local sports radio had a call-in show that was basically "tell us why YOU detest Duke." This attitude is in your face all the time.

If I lived in the Triangle, I might have similar animosity for UNC fans, but frankly I have a lot of respect for most of them compared to MD fans. West Virginia fans are the only ones who come close to being as classless as Terps supporters.

And, yeah, I don't like it when we do it, either. I don't particularly care for GTHC or "bull $h1T" after questionable calls or "you suck" directed at any player. But what MD fans do is an order of magnitude worse.

77devil
03-04-2010, 07:33 PM
The game was the 1st item on PTI. Funny, though, that the beat down in Cameron didn't make the show. Why am I not surprised with the producers in Bristol and Wilbon the shameless homer. With some tepid criticism, he essentially gave the crowd and the rioters a pass.

LeBatard added insult to injury by saying that the ACC is so weak that no team would make it to the sweet 16. The guy is clueless about college basketball.

I hope we play MD again in Greensboro.

CDu
03-04-2010, 07:38 PM
The game was the 1st item on PTI. Funny, though, that the beat down in Cameron didn't make the show. Why am I not surprised with the producers in Bristol and Wilbon the shameless homer. With some tepid criticism, he essentially gave the crowd and the rioters a pass.

LeBatard added insult to injury by saying that the ACC is so weak that no team would make it to the sweet 16. The guy is clueless about college basketball.

I hope we play MD again in Greensboro.

Wilbon is a Chicago guy, not a DC homer (though he does work in DC). And he definitely didn't give them a pass. He said their behavior was embarassing, and noted how it's sad that their actions are such a constant that it's no longer even noteworthy for the local media. He sounded exasperated and not surprised about it more than anything else.

As for why it was on PTI this time and not the first time? Two reasons: (1) the first game wasn't on ESPN (gotta promote the network), and (2) Duke beating Maryland simply isn't nearly as noteworthy as Maryland beating Duke. I prefer that Duke losing a game is noteworthy while Duke winning a game isn't that noteworthy. It means our guys are doing a lot of winning.

Duvall
03-04-2010, 07:45 PM
Wilbon is a Chicago guy, not a DC homer (though he does work in DC).

Wilbon isn't a DC homer, but he's completely in the tank for Gary Williams. (He's pretty much in the tank for Krzyzewski too, though.)

CDu
03-04-2010, 07:48 PM
Wilbon isn't a DC homer, but he's completely in the tank for Gary Williams. (He's pretty much in the tank for Krzyzewski too, though.)

He likes both guys a lot. He certainly is not a shameless DC homer. And he didn't give the Maryland fanbase a free pass, which was my main point. His comments sort of underscored how regularly they act stupid, to the point that the media doesn't even get worked up about it anymore. It's just become a way of life up there, apparently.

Kimist
03-04-2010, 07:54 PM
Like jdj4duke, I just received the same "personal" response from Christopher C. Boyer at Univ of Md.

I'm still chuckling over his "explanation" and concluding statement "We expect our fans to behave like champions too."

But he does have an interesting interpretation of "protected free speech" which the university cannot violate.

k

mapei
03-04-2010, 08:01 PM
Yes, let's put the "protected speech" issue in context.

A student in chemistry class leads his classmates in chanting "F__ you, Prof!" over and over to the teacher or, say, a guest lecturer. You think the university would hide behind a free speech argument to allow that?

jdj4duke
03-04-2010, 09:15 PM
Wilbon is a Chicago guy, not a DC homer (though he does work in DC). And he definitely didn't give them a pass. He said their behavior was embarassing, and noted how it's sad that their actions are such a constant that it's no longer even noteworthy for the local media. He sounded exasperated and not surprised about it more than anything else.

I had the same read on Wilbon's comments. And Dan L commented with some noticeable astonishment over the profanity, which led to Wilbon's criticisms. He indicated that Williams has addressed the crowds before to no avail. The exasperation I thought also was evident when Wilbon mentioned at least a couple of times College Park and their propensity to riot.

There are so many examples in this thread refuting the bogus "free speech" posture taken by the UMD admin that the only conclusion, which I mentioned earlier, is that they have given up and will continue to admit and coddle thousands of profane dolts.

Highlander
03-04-2010, 09:29 PM
When we played them in the 2001 Final Four, a friend of mine told me this joke:

Q: "What is a Maryland Fan's favorite cheer?"
A: "Anything that has the word F**K in it."

77devil
03-04-2010, 09:39 PM
Wilbon is a Chicago guy, not a DC homer (though he does work in DC). And he definitely didn't give them a pass. He said their behavior was embarassing, and noted how it's sad that their actions are such a constant that it's no longer even noteworthy for the local media. He sounded exasperated and not surprised about it more than anything else.

As for why it was on PTI this time and not the first time? Two reasons: (1) the first game wasn't on ESPN (gotta promote the network), and (2) Duke beating Maryland simply isn't nearly as noteworthy as Maryland beating Duke. I prefer that Duke losing a game is noteworthy while Duke winning a game isn't that noteworthy. It means our guys are doing a lot of winning.

First of all, Wilbon shills shamelessly for all his favorites, which are not limited to Chicago, and includes the U of MD. He covered MD sports for years early on as a beat writer. Secondly, Wilbon didn't say embarrassed, he said he didn't understand, but he was referring to the rioting not the incorrigible behavior inside the stadium. Wibon said he didn't want the rioting to take away from the game story and went on to say that the atmosphere in the stadium was electric. When challenged by LeBatard about the profanity, Wilbon said it should stop(good for him), but kept trying to redirect the conversation back to the game. He said it's not the story because it happens too often at MD. It's tepid criticism(same words I used before) at best, and a pass. Guess how many words in Wibon's column were devoted to the subject?

As for your explanation about the story positioning, no kidding, but that wasn't the point. How many times this season do you think Kansas, Kentucky, and Syracuse have been covered on PTI after an important win? If you want think there isn't bias in Bristol you're welcome to your opinion, but I prefer more balance.

CDu
03-04-2010, 09:56 PM
First of all, Wilbon shills shamelessly for all his favorites, which are not limited to Chicago, and includes the U of MD. He covered MD sports for years early on as a beat writer. Secondly, Wilbon didn't say embarrassed, he said he didn't understand, but he was referring to the rioting not the incorrigible behavior inside the stadium. Wibon said he didn't want the rioting to take away from the game story and went on to say that the atmosphere in the stadium was electric. When challenged by LeBatard about the profanity, Wilbon said it should stop(good for him), but kept trying to redirect the conversation back to the game. He said it's not the story because it happens too often at MD. It's tepid criticism(same words I used before) at best, and a pass. Guess how many words in Wibon's column were devoted to the subject?

As for your explanation about the story positioning, no kidding, but that wasn't the point. How many times this season do you think Kansas, Kentucky, and Syracuse have been covered on PTI after an important win? If you want think there isn't bias in Bristol you're welcome to your opinion, but I prefer more balance.

We're going to have to agree to disagree.

RoyalBlue08
03-04-2010, 10:12 PM
Today on ESPN.com there was a story about Coach K and what a great guy he is, and a running story following Jon through his senior week. I really don't think there is some sort anti-Duke conspiracy at ESPN. They cover our basketball team more than any other one in the country. Other fan bases complain that ESPN loves Duke. I don't think that is true either. I think when people feel strongly about something, they see bias and conspiracy when it isn't there.

Dukeface88
03-05-2010, 02:03 AM
I have to disagree with anyone comparing the behavior of the Maryland "fans" to the Crazies. Sure, we've been pretty tasteless at times, and no doubt will be again. But it doesn't go past verbal taunts, and even then we're well aware that certain subjects just are not acceptable.

There are lines that the Crazies won't cross. The same cannot be said about Maryland.

Mrezt
03-05-2010, 02:06 AM
To keep it simple, every year we play at Maryland, i am basically disgusted and amazed at their fans and their (childish) antics. Sometimes it's simply incredible that they allow that stuff to happen there. But after a day or two i forget it and realize that if they want to be idiots, they will be recognized for it and it reflects them more than anything else. I'm over it now, they are too idiotic of a fanbase to try to reason or argue with so i just forget about them. On to the Carolina game.

cspan37421
03-05-2010, 08:35 AM
this is why I can never hate UNC or their fans as much as MD. We have a lot more in common with UNC (and even more with Wake, let's say) than MD, and that, in fact, is one of many reasons UNC is far more of a rival for us than MD.

I reject the false equivalence between creative harassment and venomous, directed verbal attacks that feature profanity of the highest order.

The speeding analogy is an interesting one, but I think the parameters are off. Yes, at times we're doing 60 in a 55. I would like to see that come down, at least get rid of even the mild profanities so that one could enjoy a Duke home game with one's kids around. But doing 60 - what does that mean for us? It means that we have to be ready to be called upon it if the powers that be decide to enforce the letter of the law.

MD is not doing 75 in a 55. MD is doing 95, weaving, and is blowing a 0.10 BAC. Now, if you're a law enforcement officer, you can ticket both drivers, or you can use your limited resources to first crack down on that which is most dangerous to society. IMO this is a job for the ACC, FCC, and ESPN.

I like what someone said about having to have dignity first before you can lose it. But it's not our job to stop them from hurting their own reputation. It is our concern if we can't get our players and fans in and out of an away game safely, and it's the league's concern if, as a result of FCC finger-wagging, ESPN no longer is so keen on televising MD games.

devildeac
03-05-2010, 08:54 AM
Oh, and a question becuase I do not know the answer:

During the Duke fight song, when I was a student, the line "Carolina, good night" was always followed by the entire student body yelling "eat @#$@#!" Has that stopped, or are doing the same thing MD does -- just more clever in our own minds?

Mostly what I hear now is:

carolina, good night
BEAT STATE!

left_hook_lacey
03-05-2010, 09:01 AM
First-time poster, although I used to post a LOT back when I was a Duke undergrad ('98-'02).

This hurts my head. :confused:

Devilsfan
03-05-2010, 09:06 AM
The Crazies set the standard for wit and creativity. They have enhanced college basketball and added to its following in a very positive way. But when a much less intelligent fan base and student body try emulate the Crazies it can easily come off tasteless and vulgar. With the new alignment of the ACC why don't we refuse to play in the Comcast Center?
Our players, their families, our staff, and our fans don't need the abuse we have received over the years.

allenmurray
03-05-2010, 09:25 AM
This hurts my head. :confused:

Not a difficult thing for us "old-timers" to figure out.

The board underwent a major modification a few year back (before you joined). He/she probably meant first time poster to the "new" board.

Matches
03-05-2010, 09:47 AM
The Crazies set the standard for wit and creativity. They have enhanced college basketball and added to its following in a very positive way. But when a much less intelligent fan base and student body try emulate the Crazies it can easily come off tasteless and vulgar. With the new alignment of the ACC why don't we refuse to play in the Comcast Center?
Our players, their families, our staff, and our fans don't need the abuse we have received over the years.

Perhaps Maryland should refuse to play in Cameron since part of "setting the standard for wit and creativity" included pointing out that their best player's name sort of rhymes with penis (even though it really doesn't).

I doubt FSU will want to come to town anymore either after we made fun of one of their players' weight.

UNC is probably out, too - heck, they get offended easily to begin with - I doubt they can handle being told to go to hell or that they suck (again - the epitome of creativity).

I'm being sarcastic, of course - but come on guys - their fans said a bad word to one of our players. Is that really worth all the outrage we're mustering? All this heavy-handed moralizing makes us look completely hypocritical, given the mountains of abuse we've dished out over the years. "But it's funny when we do it!" just doesn't work as a reply.

Note: I'm intentionally separating vulgar language from acts of physical assault, items being thrown etc. I'm sure we're all in agreement that things like that are unacceptable.

CrazieDUMB
03-05-2010, 09:56 AM
For the record, let it be known that not all MD fans act this way. One of my best friends went to MD, and he can't stand that behavior. He can't stand rooting for Greivis Vasquez, and he's sick of the boorishness and stupidity of MD fans; to this day, even though he loves basketball he doesn't root for his own school.

The thing about this is, what's it going to take for the administration to do something? Here's Gary on the fans:
"The crowds have been great," he said. "We really appreciate that from our fans."

I mean I don't even think that the last game was particularly terrible, it was actually pretty average for a Maryland game. We've already seen an opposing player's mother get a concussion, we've seen literally millions of dollars worth of damage after the '02 championship, we saw ESPN highlight the fact that microphones caught "F*** you JJ" on a national broadcast. After last night, when you have a relatively routine 27 people get arrested for rioting (yes, that is routine), what's the impetus to change now?

My real fear here is that MD isn't going to do anything until someone literally gets killed. And it will be a tragedy, and MD administration will say they wish they could have done something, blah blah blah, and meanwhile some parents are going to have to bury their child because of a basketball game.
Why hasn't the police force stepped up and said they will arrest every single person that is on Rt 1 after the game for Jaywalking? Yes, that's overreacting on a single day, but this problem has decades of history behind it.

It's been said before, but why doesn't Gary get on the PA? My answer is that I don't think Gary cares at all, and if anything I think he's willing to take every advantage he can get. I don't agree with that, but I think it's in line with his character.

Where's Yow on this? I like the idea of saying listen, you rioted last time, so now no students will be allowed in for the Duke game. Yes, she'll receive all sorts of hell, but that's her job. It's an embarrassment to the school, the alumni, and everything good that Maryland has to offer. And I absolutely can't stand the idea of 'oh well, students will be students, there's nothing we can do.' There's absolutely something you can do, and you haven't done it for decades.

I don't think that change can come from Duke, i.e. refusing to play there. It's not our place, and the fact is, as bad as it is, no player has been physically harmed yet. I love the idea of taking a stand, but I don't think anyone outside of Duke would look favorably upon that.

GODUKEGO
03-05-2010, 10:09 AM
Perhaps Maryland should refuse to play in Cameron since part of "setting the standard for wit and creativity" included pointing out that their best player's name sort of rhymes with penis (even though it really doesn't).

I doubt FSU will want to come to town anymore either after we made fun of one of their players' weight.

UNC is probably out, too - heck, they get offended easily to begin with - I doubt they can handle being told to go to hell or that they suck (again - the epitome of creativity).

I'm being sarcastic, of course - but come on guys - their fans said a bad word to one of our players. Is that really worth all the outrage we're mustering? All this heavy-handed moralizing makes us look completely hypocritical, given the mountains of abuse we've dished out over the years. "But it's funny when we do it!" just doesn't work as a reply.

Note: I'm intentionally separating vulgar language from acts of physical assault, items being thrown etc. I'm sure we're all in agreement that things like that are unacceptable.

The student body chanting the F word for over six minutes crosses the line. As you said, the Crazie's have been known for their wit and creativity probably setting the standard, of course I am prejudice!! My wife and I love the "Hi Eric" during the introduction's and agree "You Suck" is middle schoolish. We were at the VA Tech game and it seemed to have stopped. Anyone know about the Tulsa game? Making fun of someones weight is mean, chanting the F word is vulgar. There is a big big difference between the two.

duke4life32182
03-05-2010, 10:16 AM
They have always been terrible.

_Gary
03-05-2010, 10:18 AM
My real fear here is that MD isn't going to do anything until someone literally gets killed. And it will be a tragedy, and MD administration will say they wish they could have done something, blah blah blah, and meanwhile some parents are going to have to bury their child because of a basketball game.

It's been said before, but why doesn't Gary get on the PA? My answer is that I don't think Gary cares at all, and if anything I think he's willing to take every advantage he can get. I don't agree with that, but I think it's in line with his character.

These are my thoughts as well. In fact I was literally playing the scenario out in my head just yesterday after watching the riots captured on Youtube. Someone is going to either end up seriously hurt or dead before the administration, the ACC, or the NCAA step up and say enough is enough. And that's going to be a sad day.

I also don't think Gary Williams cares one iota about the foul language or brutish behavior of the student body. He could easily address this and help put the clamps on it if he wanted to. But he clearly doesn't care, and it wouldn't surprise me if in his mind he sees it as an extra advantage, almost in line with some psycho intimidation tool. I hope he's not that demented, but it boggles the mind how he can be so casual about this.

GODUKEGO
03-05-2010, 10:26 AM
It's an embarrassment to the school, the alumni, and everything good that Maryland has to offer. And I absolutely can't stand the idea of 'oh well, students will be students, there's nothing we can do.' There's absolutely something you can do, and you haven't done it for decades.



As much as this is an embarrassment to the school so is graduating 10% of their basketball players. There is only one school lower than them. Should we really expect more from the University, their students and players.

http://www.tidesport.org/Grad%20Rates/2009_Mens_Bball_PR.pdf
__________________

alteran
03-05-2010, 10:39 AM
I'm being sarcastic, of course - but come on guys - their fans said a bad word to one of our players. Is that really worth all the outrage we're mustering? All this heavy-handed moralizing makes us look completely hypocritical, given the mountains of abuse we've dished out over the years. "But it's funny when we do it!" just doesn't work as a reply.

Please pay attention, these items will be on the quiz:

1) Routine vulgarity now does not equal (lesser) routine vulgarity 25 years ago, and in any case, the statute of limitations ran out on those crimes about 18 years back.

2) Occasional or outlying crowd vulgarity does not equal constant extreme organized crowd vulgarity

3) Organized crowd vulgarity tacitly endorsed by the university is a different beast than bench profanity.

For the hypocrisy argument to have merit, these things should be equivalent, but that equivalency is false-- maybe even laughably so.

Let's not indict the Crazies as being implicitly equal to the worst that college fandom has to offer to make the point that maybe some of us should lighten up. Frankly, the media makes this mistake all the time and it is simply a lame and misguided equivalency.

FWIW, I think the folks taking the devils' advocate (or not-Devil's Advocate ;)) argument here actually have some excellent points, as have you. But these equivalency arguments are not among them.

barbarella
03-05-2010, 10:42 AM
This hurts my head. :confused:

Why??

barbarella
03-05-2010, 10:45 AM
Not a difficult thing for us "old-timers" to figure out.

The board underwent a major modification a few year back (before you joined). He/she probably meant first time poster to the "new" board.

Oh yeah, sorry, that is what I meant! These fancy new-fangled forums are completely new to me. Sorry for the confusion!

JamminJoe
03-05-2010, 11:10 AM
Call me old fashioned, JamminJoe...

I don't find an equivalence between Maryland fans on one hand and Duke and UNC fans on the other.

I don't know if you find them to be the same, if you are a troll, or what. Go hang out with the Terp fans if you choose.

As a Duke fan living in Maryland, I absolutely hate the UMD fans. But I have given up on trying to influence their behavior or attitudes, so I've tried to find healthier ways to rationalize their behavior. Nothing will change unless Gary and the administration treat the situation in a serious manner.

Matches
03-05-2010, 11:33 AM
Let's not indict the Crazies as being implicitly equal to the worst that college fandom has to offer to make the point that maybe some of us should lighten up. Frankly, the media makes this mistake all the time and it is simply a lame and misguided equivalency.



I'm not suggesting that it's all equivalent. I agree saying "F-you" is worse than calling someone fat. I'm just surprised that a fanbase like ours that has prided itself on pushing the envelope is so quick to take offense.

There certainly have been times the Crazies have taken things too far, and there have been times that K has called them out on it. Clearly that's the difference - K will put a stop to it while Gary doesn't. I appreciate that K does that, and have no love lost for his damp UMd counterpart.

But if K wasn't there? If we as fans didn't know K would step in? We'd cross the line more often too. We do it sometimes anyway.

That's all I'm saying. It's not a defense of anything the UMd fans do. I just don't think we're the ones to blow the whistle on it, because our hands aren't always clean either.

Udaman
03-05-2010, 11:40 AM
Look...the vulgarity is annoying. I admit. I think there is a fine line between saying "GTHC, GTH" or adding "Eat Sh$t" at the end of the fight song, and saying "F you Scheyer." Clearly the F word is worse...but it's only marginally worse.

To me, the true difference is in how you treat the other fans. I've been at at Duke - Maryland game in Cameron and had Maryland fans sit right next to me. Yeah, it was annoying to have them cheer for them...but I tolerated it. At halftime, we talked with them and said how much we liked their team. After we won, we wished them luck, and even shook hands. That's the norm, I think for Duke fans to treat others.

It is simply not the norm at Maryland. They have pure hatred towards us as human beings...and that's the line we don't cross. It isn't personal. I would never (nor would I ever tolerate) seeing a Duke fan throw something at a Maryland fan, or cuss at them after a game, or yell negative words to their families, or near kids. Ever. And again, I think that is more the rule at Maryland than the exception.

It makes them look childish, and idiotic....and gives me zero respect for them.

But I'll still shake their hands after a game in Cameron...because sinking to their level....well, that's just not Duke.

bluedevilallie
03-05-2010, 11:56 AM
okay, here is another question--why does this always come up and nothing ever happens as a result? my roommate from grad. is married to a UMD alumnus who thinks the entire thing is FUNNY..we don't even discuss it anymore. Until enough people complain, put pressure on Sir Gary or anyone else higher up there--everything will stay the same. What about writing letters to the paper (s) up there? calling tv stations? there was a time where ESPN didn't televise games up there--what would it take for that to happen again? Maybe too much work.

jv001
03-05-2010, 12:04 PM
Why doesn't Jay Bilas, Bobby Knight, hubert davis, Seth Davis or any other high profile commentators say something about the md. fans behavior. I'm not talking about the profanity but the other issues. Such as throwing things at the players and their families, spitting on our players, etc. I guess it's because ESPN will not allow them to speak about it. I know that JB has to know about it from a personal standpoint. Go Duke!

GODUKEGO
03-05-2010, 12:08 PM
Look...the vulgarity is annoying. I admit. I think there is a fine line between saying "GTHC, GTH" or adding "Eat Sh$t" at the end of the fight song, and saying "F you Scheyer." Clearly the F word is worse...but it's only marginally worse.

To me, the true difference is in how you treat the other fans. I've been at at Duke - Maryland game in Cameron and had Maryland fans sit right next to me. Yeah, it was annoying to have them cheer for them...but I tolerated it. At halftime, we talked with them and said how much we liked their team. After we won, we wished them luck, and even shook hands. That's the norm, I think for Duke fans to treat others.

It is simply not the norm at Maryland. They have pure hatred towards us as human beings...and that's the line we don't cross. It isn't personal. I would never (nor would I ever tolerate) seeing a Duke fan throw something at a Maryland fan, or cuss at them after a game, or yell negative words to their families, or near kids. Ever. And again, I think that is more the rule at Maryland than the exception.

It makes them look childish, and idiotic....and gives me zero respect for them.

But I'll still shake their hands after a game in Cameron...because sinking to their level....well, that's just not Duke.

You are what a true Duke fan is and that is why there is only one DUKE!!! This is why the public hates but deep down envies us!!! We have a prestigious and beautiful campus, recruit great young men, they graduate and never have and never will have any scandals. Yes and have the best fans on earth!!!

capitolhill
03-05-2010, 12:14 PM
This post implies that a player had something thrown at them. I remember when Boozer's mom caught a water bottle in the head around 10 years ago ( was there, in Cole, and saw the deluge of materials being thrown towards the Duke bench), but did something happen recently?

Do we have a confirmed report that a fan spit on a player?

Lots of what I'm reading here is outrage at what could have happened. Beyond vulgar chants and students taking over route 1, what happened on Wednesday?



Why doesn't Jay Bilas, Bobby Knight, hubert davis, Seth Davis or any other high profile commentators say something about the md. fans behavior. I'm not talking about the profanity but the other issues. Such as throwing things at the players and their families, spitting on our players, etc. I guess it's because ESPN will not allow them to speak about it. I know that JB has to know about it from a personal standpoint. Go Duke!

Matches
03-05-2010, 12:21 PM
It is simply not the norm at Maryland. They have pure hatred towards us as human beings...and that's the line we don't cross. It isn't personal. I would never (nor would I ever tolerate) seeing a Duke fan throw something at a Maryland fan, or cuss at them after a game, or yell negative words to their families, or near kids. Ever. And again, I think that is more the rule at Maryland than the exception.



I agree there is a mean-spiritedness to some of the stuff the Maryland fans do. The Crazies have occasionally crossed that line too, but 90% of the time they're more about having fun, trying to be clever or funny, or playing a role. Usually it's in good fun, even when it's vulgar or profane.

Maybe that's the reason we react differently to it when Maryland does it.

jv001
03-05-2010, 12:22 PM
The only thing I personally know that happened was as the Duke players were leaving the court(after the mad rush), something went by either Jon or Kyle. I told my wife that it looked like someone threw their chewing gum at them. I record all the Duke games and looked at it again and I still believe it was chewing gum. I don't know if it was spit at the players or thrown. I also read on one of these post that the players were spit on. Since I'm not the one that got spit on, I can't say for sure it happened. If those same fans will throw batteries and full drink containers at the families of the Duke players a little spit would not be unusual for them. Go Duke!

roywhite
03-05-2010, 12:30 PM
This post implies that a player had something thrown at them. I remember when Boozer's mom caught a water bottle in the head around 10 years ago ( was there, in Cole, and saw the deluge of materials being thrown towards the Duke bench), but did something happen recently?

Do we have a confirmed report that a fan spit on a player?

Lots of what I'm reading here is outrage at what could have happened. Beyond vulgar chants and students taking over route 1, what happened on Wednesday?

Yikes, a Maryland fan actually concerned about this behavior??

Or just concerned that Terp fans have a bad reputation?

capitolhill
03-05-2010, 12:42 PM
...but, profanity doesn't bother me so much.

No bottles, battery, or batteries, please. Nobody deserves to get hurt at a game, but yelling "F-U <insert player name here>" to a player just isn't a big deal. Are you telling me your players can't handle a little heckling? Does that f-word upset your delicate sensibilities? Come on - you're Duke! You're supposed to be tough enough to take it.... You usually take it and win, so just get over it already.

Personally, rough treatment by UMD fans should make you want to play at Comcast even more! Instead of threatening to boycott, you should tell the Comcast kids to "bring it on".

One more thing - MD fans don't want to be like the Crazies. Something about coordinated cheer sheets reminds me of the glee club.

In all seriousness, I would like for Comcast to tone it down just a bit. Congratulations on a great season!

Jeffrey
03-05-2010, 12:49 PM
One more thing - MD fans don't want to be like the Crazies.

No worries.... you never will be!


Congratulations on a great season!

In many ways, I've been more impressed with your great season. GV is awesome!

arnie
03-05-2010, 12:50 PM
...but, profanity doesn't bother me so much.

No bottles, battery, or batteries, please. Nobody deserves to get hurt at a game, but yelling "F-U <insert player name here>" to a player just isn't a big deal. Are you telling me your players can't handle a little heckling? Does that f-word upset your delicate sensibilities? Come on - you're Duke! You're supposed to be tough enough to take it.... You usually take it and win, so just get over it already.

Personally, rough treatment by UMD fans should make you want to play at Comcast even more! Instead of threatening to boycott, you should tell the Comcast kids to "bring it on".

One more thing - MD fans don't want to be like the Crazies. Something about coordinated cheer sheets reminds me of the glee club.


In all seriousness, I would like for Comcast to tone it down just a bit. Congratulations on a great season!


I just listened to Dave Glenn (local sports radio host and believe a UNC grad) discussing this with Jon Scheyer. Glenn talked about Maryland fans spitting on players and Jon simply let the comment go. So the concerns aren't just coming from Duke fans.

The constant F you chants are funny only to middle school kids and if that's all Md fans can come up with, that's just sad. I would think any reasonable fan would hope his fan base had a better thought process.

I'm with many of the posters, just wish UM would drop out and join the Big East or some other organization.

cspan37421
03-05-2010, 12:54 PM
Says it all:

"wtf is with all this "classy" crap? what are you guys 80 years old? man up pu**ies. Maryland fans aren't classy and we don't want to be "classy" you morons. we're passionate and that's all that matters.

oh yeah F*** [misspells Duke]

Posted by: TheMarylander | March 4, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse "

Hey Capitolhill, are you going to just suggest we all party hearty until someone gets assaulted? That breaking the windows of businesses and burning a few cars is just an inextricable part of school spirit, a rite of passage?
Sticks and stones ... but if this stuff continues you might find that you'll need to beg HBO to televise your games.

PS to "The Marylander" quoted in WaPo, don't worry, no one will ever mistake you guys for classy.

JamminJoe
03-05-2010, 01:02 PM
...but, profanity doesn't bother me so much.

No bottles, battery, or batteries, please. Nobody deserves to get hurt at a game, but yelling "F-U <insert player name here>" to a player just isn't a big deal. Are you telling me your players can't handle a little heckling? Does that f-word upset your delicate sensibilities? Come on - you're Duke! You're supposed to be tough enough to take it.... You usually take it and win, so just get over it already.

Personally, rough treatment by UMD fans should make you want to play at Comcast even more! Instead of threatening to boycott, you should tell the Comcast kids to "bring it on".

One more thing - MD fans don't want to be like the Crazies. Something about coordinated cheer sheets reminds me of the glee club.

In all seriousness, I would like for Comcast to tone it down just a bit. Congratulations on a great season!

It’s good to get a UMD fan’s perspective. At least you realize that the atmosphere is a bit too charged. I don’t like it, but the language doesn’t bother me too much either. What is not right though is that when Duke visits UMD, there is a real perceived threat that something bad can happen. I’m not sure it’s fair to raise the intensity of fan involvement to that level. Holding a knife to your opponent’s throat as the game progresses is not playing fair (I’m exaggerating with the example of course).

The Crazies get on opponents all the time, but there have been several comments from opposing players that they never actually feel threatened by the situation.

Jeffrey
03-05-2010, 01:02 PM
Glenn talked about Maryland fans spitting on players and Jon simply let the comment go.

IMO, Jon handled it well.


..... just wish UM would drop out and join the Big East or some other organization.

Strongly disagree. IMO, some of the best games ever played in the ACC were the MD vs. N.C. State games in the mid-70's. Just wish I remembered them better. BTW, does anyone know where I can get a video copy of those games?

Slackerb
03-05-2010, 01:02 PM
How many of these posts would have been made had Duke not lost?

allenmurray
03-05-2010, 01:04 PM
...but, profanity doesn't bother me so much.

No bottles, battery, or batteries, please. Nobody deserves to get hurt at a game, but yelling "F-U <insert player name here>" to a player just isn't a big deal. Are you telling me your players can't handle a little heckling? Does that f-word upset your delicate sensibilities?

We are not talking about an individual fan yelling at a player. We're talking about orchestrated chanting loud enough to be heard clearly on television. That is the image the University of Maryland is cultivating. As an alumnus of the University (and a former fan - my fanhood left along with Lefty - I will never root for a team coached by Gary Williams) I am embarassed by my alma mater.

capitolhill
03-05-2010, 01:07 PM
Was a car burned on Wednesday? Were businesses damaged? I heard that a Duke jersey was burned.

We all agree that some of Wednesday's behavior was boorish, so why do you need to embellish?

The folks I talked to that were on the ground say that the number of arrests weren't due to "rioting", they were due mostly to the huge police presence that was on site before the game ended. Mounted police were determined to clear route 1, and anyone who didn't move out quickly enough was cuffed.

BTW, PG county cops are world famous for excessive force (just do a google search for "mayor berwyn heights dog killed" for a taste).



Says it all:
Hey Capitolhill, are you going to just suggest we all party hearty until someone gets assaulted? That breaking the windows of businesses and burning a few cars is just an inextricable part of school spirit, a rite of passage?

jdj4duke
03-05-2010, 01:16 PM
How many of these posts would have been made had Duke not lost?

All of them. The behavior went on during the game, and UMD riots, win or lose. Very little changes regardless of the outcome.

allenmurray
03-05-2010, 01:20 PM
Was a car burned on Wednesday? Were businesses damaged? I heard that a Duke jersey was burned.

We all agree that some of Wednesday's behavior was boorish, so why do you need to embellish?

The folks I talked to that were on the ground say that the number of arrests weren't due to "rioting", they were due mostly to the huge police presence that was on site before the game ended. Mounted police were determined to clear route 1, and anyone who didn't move out quickly enough was cuffed.

BTW, PG county cops are world famous for excessive force (just do a google search for "mayor berwyn heights dog killed" for a taste).

Five people treated at the hospital. A tree set on fire (by wrappng it with clothing and setting it ablaze). A group of students trying (before being stopped) to overturn a bus by rocking it back and forth. Fireworks being set off within a crowd. Street signs being pulled from the ground. Use that google thing you mentioned.

You are correct about the reputation of the PG county police. But based on history ($50k in damages after the last student riot) what choice did they have other than to be prepared?

Coming to this board to defend the behavior of the Maryland students seems a bit silly. Actually, defending the behavior of the Maryland students at all seems a bit silly.

SharkD
03-05-2010, 01:25 PM
Awesome.

That's a DBR text filter.

I have no idea what "I'm a real wanker for saying this." replaced in his signature (one of the common words replaced by this phrase is a synonym for the Gluteus Maximus).

noyac
03-05-2010, 01:26 PM
I may be giving Maryland fans too much credit here but perhaps they are trying to make Duke v Maryland the rivalary that it isn't by their classless behavior.

If the above statement is true (probably not) then by reacting the way we are is fueling the rivalry that does not exist.

Jeffrey
03-05-2010, 01:28 PM
We are not talking about an individual fan yelling at a player. We're talking about orchestrated chanting loud enough to be heard clearly on television. That is the image the University of Maryland is cultivating. As an alumnus of the University (and a former fan - my fanhood left along with Lefty - I will never root for a team coached by Gary Williams) I am embarassed by my alma mater.

Exactly, Duke is not the one being disgraced or harmed by the verbal behavior of UMD fans.

JamminJoe
03-05-2010, 01:31 PM
Just as we know that not calling them our rival gets under their skin, the terp fans know that all of this type of intimidation makes Duke fans look like pus***s (as capitolhill's post implies). That's why I was suggesting earlier in the thread that we don't give them that satisfaction.

cspan37421
03-05-2010, 01:32 PM
Was a car burned on Wednesday? Were businesses damaged? I heard that a Duke jersey was burned.

We all agree that some of Wednesday's behavior was boorish, so why do you need to embellish?

The folks I talked to that were on the ground say that the number of arrests weren't due to "rioting", they were due mostly to the huge police presence

You assumed I was only talking about Wednesday; I was talking MD riot history w/r/t cars and windows - I didn't claim those happened on Wednesday, so I'm not embellishing.

And it is that history that led to a huge police presence - and perhaps saved some businesses and cars.

jv001
03-05-2010, 01:39 PM
Just as we know that not calling them our rival gets under their skin, the terp fans know that all of this type of intimidation makes Duke fans look like pus***s (as capitolhill's post implies). That's why I was suggesting earlier in the thread that we don't give them that satisfaction.

Like, is that all you've got. Bring it on type of attitude. Maybe that would be better. But these fans have been stupid for a long time. Don't know if that would work. Go Duke!

GODUKEGO
03-05-2010, 02:59 PM
...but, profanity doesn't bother me so much.

No bottles, battery, or batteries, please. Nobody deserves to get hurt at a game, but yelling "F-U <insert player name here>" to a player just isn't a big deal. Are you telling me your players can't handle a little heckling? Does that f-word upset your delicate sensibilities? Come on - you're Duke! You're supposed to be tough enough to take it.... You usually take it and win, so just get over it already.

Personally, rough treatment by UMD fans should make you want to play at Comcast even more! Instead of threatening to boycott, you should tell the Comcast kids to "bring it on".

One more thing - MD fans don't want to be like the Crazies. Something about coordinated cheer sheets reminds me of the glee club.

In all seriousness, I would like for Comcast to tone it down just a bit. Congratulations on a great season!

Glad I get to correspond to a Terp. Let's step back from the classless Maryland fan's for a moment. There is no defending their behavior. Are you not terribly embarrassed that Maryland only graduates 10% of their basketball players. Now for those Maryland fan's reading this, 10% means only 1 out of 10 players ever graduate. They have not had an All ACC Academic member since 2000 and that was someone even a Terp fan would not know.

http://www.tidesport.org/Grad%20Rates/2009_Mens_Bball_PR.pdf

DevilDad
03-05-2010, 03:12 PM
...but, profanity doesn't bother me so much.

No bottles, battery, or batteries, please. Nobody deserves to get hurt at a game, but yelling "F-U <insert player name here>" to a player just isn't a big deal. Are you telling me your players can't handle a little heckling? Does that f-word upset your delicate sensibilities? Come on - you're Duke! You're supposed to be tough enough to take it.... You usually take it and win, so just get over it already.

Personally, rough treatment by UMD fans should make you want to play at Comcast even more! Instead of threatening to boycott, you should tell the Comcast kids to "bring it on".

One more thing - MD fans don't want to be like the Crazies. Something about coordinated cheer sheets reminds me of the glee club.

In all seriousness, I would like for Comcast to tone it down just a bit. Congratulations on a great season!


"profanity doesn't bother me so much"....spoken like a true "classy" MD fan :rolleyes:

"Come on- you're Duke!".....true,....something that you could never hope to be.

capitolhill
03-05-2010, 03:27 PM
"Come on- you're Duke!".....true,....something that you could never hope to be.

I actually paid your team and fans a compliment by indicating that you're too tough to worry about such trivial matters. You respond with a snide insult.

I've read this board for a while because the discourse is pretty civil and the readers care about basketball. Your response is outside the norm. You don't know me, or what I "could never hope to be".

We shouldn't get personal with each other. That's what makes this forum so good.

capitolhill
03-05-2010, 03:35 PM
Yes, it's dissapointing and odd, because UMD is not a bad school. Some departments are quite good, actually. For what it's worth, my program (comp sci) was ranked #13 in 2008 (US News), and #2 as recently as 2006. I can't speak to the Liberal Arts programs, but all the science departments are pretty solid.

That being said, I'm a realist with respect to Div I sports. We all know that NCAA basketball is absolutely not about academics. These guys come to college for coaching, exposure and experience. The degree is way down on the list.

I'll grant that Duke has done a great job in the academic area, which you should be proud of. I hope that UMD can make some improvements in years to come.


Glad I get to correspond to a Terp. Let's step back from the classless Maryland fan's for a moment. There is no defending their behavior. Are you not terribly embarrassed that Maryland only graduates 10% of their basketball players. Now for those Maryland fan's reading this, 10% means only 1 out of 10 players ever graduate. They have not had an All ACC Academic member since 2000 and that was someone even a Terp fan would not know.

http://www.tidesport.org/Grad%20Rates/2009_Mens_Bball_PR.pdf

OldPhiKap
03-05-2010, 03:52 PM
1. I think Capitol's posts were within the bounds of respectful and I for one am glad to see his/her perspective.

2. We play the boys in powder blue in about 28 hours. Time to refocus.

3. Agreed that if Gary and the University do not address this issue, it is a black eye for them. But since the season is over, my guess is that you will see something sent out to ticketholders (and perhaps through other outlets) at the beginning of next season. Not now. But again, if they don't, let folks judge them by the image they allow to fester.

SharkD
03-05-2010, 04:17 PM
That being said, I'm a realist with respect to Div I sports. We all know that NCAA basketball is absolutely not about academics. These guys come to college for coaching, exposure and experience. The degree is way down on the list.

I think that attitude is part of the problem.

If college athletic scholarships were merely about setting up pro-basketball careers, then the NCAA should just call a spade a spade and call itself the NBA/NFL-DL and not "waste" the players' time with window-dressing quizzes, papers, exams and whatnot.

But, it is about the academics, for most players and most programs. Only something like 3% of high school athletes receive athletic scholarships. Of those who receive basketball scholarships, only 3% of those student-athletes play in the pros. The fact of the matter is, that the vast majority of student-athletes are playing sports because it is their only avenue for the level of education offered at their institution. If Gary Williams and Debbie Yow are not ensuring that their student-athletes are applying themselves to their studies, then they have no business being employed by an institution of higher learning.

Other coaches at high-quality schools have managed high graduation rates while maintaining successful programs:


Say what you will about his choice of blues, Dean Smith managed a remarkable 97.7% graduation rate in his tenure at UNC.

John Wooden racked up a better than 66% rate, as best I can tell.

Tom Crean, of Marquette and now Indiana has managed a couple of 100% years and has a very strong reputation for graduating players.

And Mike Krzyzweski has an overall GSR of over 90% and a 98% rate for students who used all four years of eligibility. Krzyzweski won't even hang banners for teams until their seniors graduate, even national championship banners. http://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/12/sports/sports-people-basketball-laettner-will-graduate-so-banner-stays.html?pagewanted=1

-jk
03-05-2010, 04:45 PM
2. We play the boys in powder blue in about 28 hours. Time to refocus.


Sounds good to me. Besides, we've beaten this topic into the ground.

-jk

Noteware
03-09-2010, 06:23 PM
I sent a complaint about the UMD fans in last week's game to the UMD President. My complaint basically said that the fans were embarrassing the university and that the responsibility for leadership lies with the administration.

The response I got is below. I don't buy it because the letter does not match with what we've seen for years, and I certainly don't agree that the administration has no remedy during the event. A few well-chosen, avuncular words on the PA by Gary Williams during a game or two would solve most of the problem, IMO. Nonetheless, here it is:

"Thank you for your support and feedback.

I am also an alum of, donor to, and employee of the University of Maryland.
I can assure you that the criticisms we receive are not dismissed nor do we excuse this issue. Actions were taken prior to the game, during the game, and following the game last Wednesday. I know it is often difficult to see the totality of the circumstances on television or as a fan in the arena, so I can only ask you trust what I am telling you in that regard.

Of course, Athletics is often a source of great pride for the University of Maryland community. However, like institutions across the country and ACC, we do realize fan behavior at and following sporting events is increasingly a national issue and certainly not unique to the College Park campus. That being said, we believe all fans who attend Maryland games must understand that they represent all of us in a sense, and Maryland has been a leader in developing various initiatives to support and encourage good sportsmanship among our spectators. Admittedly, some efforts have been more effective than others, and we continue to develop new strategies in this ongoing campaign.
We have been discussing our next steps since last Wednesday’s game.

Of course, we do not condone nor support vulgar, abusive or offensive language, actions or apparel in any way. Like at all ACC schools, we remind our fans of the ACC Sportsmanship Policy at all events. Additionally, prior to last Wednesday's game, Coach Williams sent an email to all student ticket holders requesting adherence to the Policy. We have employed numerous other sportsmanship initiatives in recent years. including the following:

1. Our Coaches have spoken to the student sections before home games
regarding profane language and profane t-shirts.

2. Our Student Athlete Advisory Committee has recently filmed a PSA
video encouraging good sportsmanship from our fans which will soon be released on our website and in our venues.

3. Our Coaches and the Athletic Director have cosigned a letter to
the student body via The Diamondback (student newspaper) about the value of sportsmanship.

4. President Mote has stated his opinion on the importance of
sportsmanship on numerous occasions to The Diamondback. In fact, a Diamondback editorial strongly supported Dr. Mote’s thoughts 100%.

5. The Division of University Relations sponsored a Sportsmanship
Campaign entitled “Act Like You Know” (how to be a champion).

6. Both Coach Williams and Coach Friedgen taped video messages that
have been frequently run in Comcast Center and Byrd Stadium respectively.

As a public state university, we have been advised that we cannot simply eject fans from our venues for participating in vulgar cheers or wearing vulgar apparel. Such language and t-shirts, while offensive to many, remain protected free speech. Nevertheless, the University of Maryland is fully committed to conducting athletics events that reflect the excellent character and culture of our total institution. To that end, we will continue to pursue fan behavior that better reflects our outstanding national reputation in the dimensions of Academics, the Arts and Athletics.

Regards,
------------
Christopher C. Boyer
Senior Associate Athletic Director

University of Maryland
2619 Comcast Center
College Park, MD 20742
301.314.7171
301.314.7149 (fax)"

OZZIE4DUKE
03-09-2010, 06:48 PM
I agree: if Gary Williams called a time out, went to the PA microphone and said "Stop that cheer NOW! I don't want to hear that (F.U Scheyer/Redick/etc.) or anything similar again. If I do, I'm pulling the team off the court and forfeiting the game." Chances are pretty good he'd never have to follow through with his threat/promise, but he would need to be willing to do it. When Coach K has taken the mic on one or two occasions, the results were instantaneous.

-jk
03-09-2010, 06:53 PM
Folks, this horse is dead.

-jk