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BlueintheFace
03-03-2010, 11:09 PM
Keep it civil

SCMatt33
03-03-2010, 11:10 PM
Great job to get back in it after the start. They just hit more shots down the stretch. That's about it.

GoingFor#5
03-03-2010, 11:10 PM
I am not too concerned. We may have been riding too high going into March and, while a loss to Maryland never feels good, it might do us some good. Hopefully the next time we face a tough opponent we play well start to finish.

HateCarolina
03-03-2010, 11:11 PM
Tough to keep it civil after that game, but congrats to Maryland for the win, but I believe John Swofford will have some "splainin" to do after the calls made by the refs in this game.

Billy Dat
03-03-2010, 11:11 PM
I thought it was a great game, not all time great, but great. Posession by posession down the stretch, Vasquez and Scheyer running their teams and making plays...the General just made more down the stretch. They DID make some crazy shots...like it was meant to be for them. Tough loss, but exciting game.

moonpie23
03-03-2010, 11:11 PM
tough game......md played lights out....congrats to them


nolan came up huge, kyle sorta faded.....jon was cold in the last few min...

next game...

whirlieduke4
03-03-2010, 11:12 PM
Greivis Vasquez is so many things that I wish I could say right now, but of course it wouldn't be civil.
We showed some toughness down the stretch against a cocky team playing at home in front of a crowd chanting "F*** Duke" all game long.

Let's get ready for the holes on saturday.

Eternal Outlaw
03-03-2010, 11:12 PM
Emotion can be a very powerful thing if used right and they did. If Duke can do the same on their Senior night, UNC won't stand a chance.

loldevilz
03-03-2010, 11:12 PM
just the worst...that's all I can say.

_Gary
03-03-2010, 11:12 PM
We did NOT lose this game because of the refs. There was a horrible 2 or 3 minute span where the calls were one-sided but that's not why we lost. First off they came out with more emotion and got the lead due to it. Second, they hit some incredible circus shots. Third, they got just about every bounce a team could ask for in the first half. We actually had better looks over all in the game than they did. Our defense wasn't bad at all. In fact I think it was better than theirs. It just wasn't meant to be tonight. One of those nights. Nothing to lose sleep over. We'll hopefully see them again next weekend and I'm confident we'll beat them soundly.

Everything is still good as long as we win Saturday night. :D

ScreechTDX1847
03-03-2010, 11:12 PM
I thougt we played tough but missed the front end of too many 1/1s. I can't believe how badly we got outrebounded in the first half but it looked like Gary was having his big guys rotate our bigs to the perimeter.

Uggghhh. I would love another shot at Maryland in the tournament.:D

HateCarolina
03-03-2010, 11:12 PM
Now if we can just whip up on Carolina Saturday night I will feel just fine.

ncexnyc
03-03-2010, 11:12 PM
A great game. We had them on the ropes at the start of the 2nd half, but wasted to many chances and let them back into it. Definitely some home cooking calls in this one.

rthomas
03-03-2010, 11:12 PM
Probably get a chance for revenge weekend after next.

DukeUsul
03-03-2010, 11:13 PM
Missed a few too many open shots in the second half and couldn't get the boards. MD and especially Vasquez made some very difficult shots down the stretch.

I look forward to seeing them choke against UVA this weekend. :D

DownEastDevil
03-03-2010, 11:13 PM
You are up by 3 and the refs blow 3 obvious calls in a row and all of a sudden you are down by 5. That is big I don't care what you say.

91devil
03-03-2010, 11:13 PM
Hey, Maryland played really well. We had our chance to pull away early in the second half and couldn't quite do it. Jordan Williams was terrific tonight, perhaps his best game of his young career. They made some pretty acrobatic shots, but winning teams do that. Maryland took it over in the last two minutes.

Other than the disgust of letting that student section celebrate (and UMD Administration...come on....how long are you going to tolerate that type of language on a nationally televised game?), no extreme annoyance losing there tonight.

House G
03-03-2010, 11:13 PM
Honestly, not too surprised that we lost. Tough place to play, especially on Senior night. Good preparation for NCAA tourney. Hope we get Maryland again in the ACC tournament and hope we don't get that one ref again--I think his whistle got stuck in his mouth.

CLW
03-03-2010, 11:13 PM
the storming the court nonsense is just silly. A Top 25 team holds serve on their home court and they think they should storm the court?

It just screams fan stupidity and is almost an admission that the team's fans believe/know their team's win was a joke/fluke.

Perhaps, the ACC should go the route of the SEC and fine the bleep out of a school when their fans storm the court.

jkidd31
03-03-2010, 11:13 PM
We don't complain about the refs...we're not Maryland. Next play, on to drilling UNC and winning the ACC tourney and locking up a #1 seed. K State got drilled tonight. We lost a tight game to a top 25 team on their court. I hate losing, but I'd much rather lose like we did. K State folded down the stretch.

roywhite
03-03-2010, 11:13 PM
Gee, what a surprise the Terp fans rushed the court.

Hope we get the Terps in the ACC Tournament finals for the rubber game between the teams this year. I like Duke's chances on a neutral court.

Spam Filter
03-03-2010, 11:13 PM
Zoubek played a great game, but he cannot let Williams get that put back on him at the end, that was the play of the game. Zoubek gets that rebound and I believe we win the game.

Highlander
03-03-2010, 11:13 PM
Great game. Maryland earned the win. They hit some absolutely incredible shots and we missed our opportunities to stay with them. They refused to lose.

No shame in losing a game like that. Both teams played their butts off; Maryland just made their shots at the end and we missed.

Next play.

YourLandlord
03-03-2010, 11:14 PM
The last 6 minutes I had no confidence we could score against their defense. Low and behold, we didn't.

grossbus
03-03-2010, 11:14 PM
they could not miss. we could and did.

two horrendous calls late (the over and back and the travel on jon).

another great effort by Z.

Channing
03-03-2010, 11:14 PM
there were questionable calls both ways. certainly didnt decide the game.

btw, GV was very gracious in his post game interview - very impressed.

AdjustNation
03-03-2010, 11:14 PM
I think this was the most informative lost all year. This shows how far we've came from the George Town lost. We came out against a team high on emotions with senior night and we took their strongest hit and came back. The last 5Minutes + the first 8Minutes of the 2nd Half were some of the best basketball we've played in a stretch all season.

RoyalBlue08
03-03-2010, 11:15 PM
A few points:

1. Decent effort from our guys. Maryland obviously had this one circled and the crowd was crazy. Would have loved to see them pull it out, but honestly I think Maryland wanted it more.

2. Bet the house on UVA this weekend. I still say we win the regular season outright. In fact, Maryland might still be celebrating their win and forget to show up to the game.

3. I don't know what the numbers are yet, but I think we need to consider limiting Z's minutes a bit. He seemed exhausted the last five minutes of this game and his defense and rebounding really suffered. I realize we lose quite a bit when Miles comes in these days, but I'd rather a few more minutes of Miles than a few minutes of exhausted Brian.

HateCarolina
03-03-2010, 11:15 PM
We did NOT lose this game because of the refs. There was a horrible 2 or 3 minute span where the calls were one-sided but that's not why we lost. First off they came out with more emotion and got the lead due to it. Second, they hit some incredible circus shots. Third, they got just about every bounce a team could ask for in the first half. We actually had better looks over all in the game than they did. Our defense wasn't bad at all. In fact I think it was better than theirs. It just wasn't meant to be tonight. One of those nights. Nothing to lose sleep over. We'll hopefully see them again next weekend and I'm confident we'll beat them soundly.

Everything is still good as long as we win Saturday night. :D

I agree that the refs did not cause us to lose the game; however their were some absolutely horrid calls throughout the game. I just watched the post-interview with Vasquez and I must say he was very professional in his comments. Congrats to him in his last home game...bring on Carolina.

loran16
03-03-2010, 11:15 PM
Effective Field Goal % - Home
Scheyer: 43.4%
Smith: 45.8%
Singler: 44.7%

Effective Field Goal % - Road
Scheyer: 38.3%
Smith: 39.2%
Singler: 41.3%

I think that says it all about this game.

Just alarming.

BlueintheFace
03-03-2010, 11:16 PM
Very very atypical play by Jon down the stretch. I am not going to say he lost it for us because GV was a stud at the end and hit shots even he has no business making, but Jon really choked a bit (that feels weird to type, but true).

devildownunder
03-03-2010, 11:16 PM
First off they came out with more emotion and got the lead due to it.



This is exactly the lesson I hope the team learns from this game. We've had a couple of occasions lately where we've sort of taken the other team's best shot, so to speak, on the road at first and then played our way back into it. That's worked out before because we did it against teams like Miami. But against good squads, no matter where the game is played you must match or exceed your opponent's intensity right from the opening tip. We failed to do that tonight, and it's the biggest reason we lost the game, from everything I've been reading and seeing here and in the gamecast.

jv001
03-03-2010, 11:16 PM
But we lost composure at the end. Vazquez pretty classy in the post game interview. Gave Jon, Nolan, Kyle and Duke credit. He probably deserves POY for his good play down the stretch this year. Sure would liked to see us in that zone at the end when they got hot. Made some unbelievable shots. Well let's beat the tarholes who by now think they can beat us. Go Duke!

jipops
03-03-2010, 11:16 PM
A few missed opportunities in this one but absolutely nothing to hang our head about in this one. Our guys fought hard in a tough game on the road. Maryland made the big plays at the end. It's just a tough loss against a very good team on the road, nothing more. The important thing is that everyone leaves this game healthy (hopefully Z's finger included).

I look forward to us facing UNC on Saturday. Hopefully it will make everything feel much better.

roywhite
03-03-2010, 11:17 PM
I don't know what the numbers are yet, but I think we need to consider limiting Z's minutes a bit. He seemed exhausted the last five minutes of this game and his defense and rebounding really suffered. I realize we lose quite a bit when Miles comes in these days, but I'd rather a few more minutes of Miles than a few minutes of exhausted Brian.

Sure would have liked to see Zoubs get that key rebound that Williams came up with. You may have a point.

_Gary
03-03-2010, 11:17 PM
Zoubek played a great game, but he cannot let Williams get that put back on him at the end, that was the play of the game. Zoubek gets that rebound and I believe we win the game.

Definitely the key play late in the game. I agree that if we get that rebound (and God knows we should have) then we have a great chance to win. That one and then the Vazquez "Merry Christmas" shot next time down the court doomed us.

Mabdul Doobakus
03-03-2010, 11:17 PM
I really do hate the Maryland fans. I've always heard it's a good school, and you would think a good school would have smart kids. So, I don't know if these kids are stupid, or just a bunch of smart douchebags...

How can a student body be so consistently classless? How can they have any pride in how they represent their program?

At the same time, I will grant that it's probably only a small portion of the entire student body that carries themselves this way. Still, it's very visible.

I once watched a Duke-UMD game at a bar on the Maryland campus (I was driving back to Duke from Philadelphia and it just worked out time wise). It was in the middle of the JJ era, and we won a tight one. I walked very quickly and quietly back to my car and got the hell out of there. It was frightening.

Lord Ash
03-03-2010, 11:17 PM
Honestly, I am amazed at the behavior of the Terp students. I heard the f word more in this basketball game on national television than on the entire first season of the Sopranos. Seriously... using it as the chorus during that one overplayed song?

Embarrassing as hell, if you ask me, and a sign of a very low-class group... feels more "Jersey Shore" than anything else, but IIRC that is about where Maryland draws its student population from.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4213/stayclassy.gif (http://img186.imageshack.us/i/stayclassy.gif/)

Oh well. On to the Main Event!

dukemsu
03-03-2010, 11:18 PM
but take UVA on the weekend. Classic case of Dukeitis coming up. No way that team can get right emotionally after winning a game they treated as the Super Bowl.

dukemsu

77devil
03-03-2010, 11:18 PM
Great job to get back in it after the start. They just hit more shots down the stretch. That's about it.

Without more O from Z and the brothers Plumlee, it's going to be tough. K really shortened the bench in the 2nd half. Did Miles even get in after halftime?

Would have liked to have seen some zone in the 2nd half.

Coballs
03-03-2010, 11:18 PM
Nothing to worry about here. The combination of an extremely hostile environment, senior night, a fired up opponent, horrible officiating, and circus shots is tough for any team to overcome. If we win the ACC tournament, hopefully we can still get the 1. This game will be forgotten when we beat the Terps next weekend.

whirlieduke4
03-03-2010, 11:18 PM
I realize we lose quite a bit when Miles comes in these days, but I'd rather a few more minutes of Miles than a few minutes of exhausted Brian.

Miles did hit some pretty big shots-including the 3-in the 1st half to keep us reasonably close. I realize his rebounding isn't the same, nor the defense or physical presence, but I'm not so sure it would have been any worse than an exhausted Z out there.

camion
03-03-2010, 11:18 PM
I'm disappointed, but not disheartened. It was just Maryland's night. They made some ridiculous shots both early and late. We could have played better, but that's true of almost any game. I still love this team and think we have a good shot at an ACC title and a pretty long NCAA run.

I was really happy to see Andre shooting like Andre again.

A-Tex Devil
03-03-2010, 11:18 PM
THis is the ultimate "Next Play" game. Maryland is a good team and us much of a douche as Greivis Vasquez is, he was clutch tonight. We lost on the road to a ranked team, and have a chance at going 13-3 in the ACC and with KSU losing an inside track on the #1 seed if we can make the ACC finals.

Switch the NC State loss with say, oh, Clemson (and those stil cancel out), and I take this regular season in a heartbeat. I am excited going into the UNC game and the tourney. We need to take care of business this weekend and secure the #1 seed. Let MD have their regular season banner.

UrinalCake
03-03-2010, 11:19 PM
Not much you can do to defend Vasquez hitting two off-balance runners in the last couple minutes. That last one he was basically jumping away from the basket at full speed. Nolan was getting some good penetration, and Zoubek's screens up top were a big part of it. Gotta hit shots, including free throws, to have a chance on the road. Nice to say Andre hit a couple threes.

geraldsneighbor
03-03-2010, 11:19 PM
Effective Field Goal % - Home
Scheyer: 43.4%
Smith: 45.8%
Singler: 44.7%

Effective Field Goal % - Road
Scheyer: 38.3%
Smith: 39.2%
Singler: 41.3%

I think that says it all about this game.

Just alarming.

Good news is the ACC tournament and NCAA's aren't played on the road... Hell of an effort to come back but Duke just couldn't seem to finish down the stretch. Greivis hit a few circus shots and that's all it really took. I'm confident though if Duke gets them again that things will be different.

Beat Carolina, get the #1 seed and go win the ACC tournament. You do that and a number #1 seed in the NCAA's may follow.

devildownunder
03-03-2010, 11:19 PM
We don't complain about the refs...we're not Maryland.

Here, here! From your words to the forum's -- and fanbase's -- ears. It's disgusting to hear so many people on here griping about the zebras.

WE. ARE. BETTER. THAN. THAT!

weezie
03-03-2010, 11:19 PM
Nothing to worry about here. The combination of an extremely hostile environment, senior night, a fired up opponent, horrible officiating, and circus shots is tough for any team to overcome. If we win the ACC tournament, hopefully we can still get the 1. This game will be forgotten when we beat the Terps next weekend.

OK, I'll take this as a good piece of advice.

K's right....no coach has been court rushed as much as he has.

KyDevilinIL
03-03-2010, 11:19 PM
I'm not the least bit shocked we lost. Maryland is really good, and they have been for several weeks now.

Our guys can handle this. The slow start didn't kill us; failing to extend the lead a bit when we had a chance in the second half killed us. We let MD stay in it.

I know we haven't been in many close games this season, but my goodness, we have to be better down the stretch. There are so many other ways to score points in the final three minutes than launching 3-pointers. I don't understand our fascination with that shot late in games.

For some reason, though, teams are periodically going to shoot ridiculous percentages against us. We gotta figure out ways to be more disruptive on those nights, because someone will absolutely do that to us in the NCAAT.

jipops
03-03-2010, 11:20 PM
Very very atypical play by Jon down the stretch. I am not going to say he lost it for us because GV was a stud at the end and hit shots even he has no business making, but Jon really choked a bit (that feels weird to type, but true).

I have to disagree. There was no choke job here. Teams win tight games by making plays, doesn't mean the other one choked. And Jon did make big plays at the end as well, they just didn't all go down like they did for Vasquez.

I felt like we did miss a huge opportunity back at the 15 minute mark of the 2nd when he had held Maryland without a fg for 10:45 but couldn't extend a lead due to our offense shutting down. Maryland tied it back up and it was tight the rest of the way. I really felt we lost an opportunity to take control of the game right there.

ChrisP
03-03-2010, 11:20 PM
Zoubek played a great game, but he cannot let Williams get that put back on him at the end, that was the play of the game. Zoubek gets that rebound and I believe we win the game.

I don't disagree with you but you can't blame this loss on Zoubs. He really played a nice game and especially with the hurt hand and all. We lost because of a very poor start, some crazy circus shots by MD, very poor FT shooting, by us, great leadership by Vasquez, and, yes, some AWFUL calls by the zebras.

I want nothing more now than to see UMD, on a hangover from this game, fall on their face at UVA and for us to whip UNC's bootay and win the regular season outright.

Neals384
03-03-2010, 11:20 PM
Good news - this was Duke's last Road game of the season. They showed terrific poise and grit to come back, and then battle down the stretch. Maryland played their hearts out, and shot 50% for the game. Congrats to them on a terrific win....

muzikfrk75
03-03-2010, 11:22 PM
We did NOT lose this game because of the refs. There was a horrible 2 or 3 minute span where the calls were one-sided but that's not why we lost. First off they came out with more emotion and got the lead due to it. Second, they hit some incredible circus shots. Third, they got just about every bounce a team could ask for in the first half. We actually had better looks over all in the game than they did. Our defense wasn't bad at all. In fact I think it was better than theirs. It just wasn't meant to be tonight. One of those nights. Nothing to lose sleep over. We'll hopefully see them again next weekend and I'm confident we'll beat them soundly.

Everything is still good as long as we win Saturday night. :D


I agree with about 101% of this

Duvall
03-03-2010, 11:22 PM
here, here! From your words to the forum's -- and fanbase's -- ears. It's disgusting to hear so many people on here griping about the zebras.

We. Are. Better. Than. That!

you. Didn't. See. The. Game.

jipops
03-03-2010, 11:22 PM
I don't disagree with you but you can't blame this loss on Zoubs. He really played a nice game and especially with the hurt hand and all. We lost because of a very poor start, some crazy circus shots by MD, very poor FT shooting, by us, great leadership by Vasquez, and, yes, some AWFUL calls by the zebras.

I want nothing more now than to see UMD, on a hangover from this game, fall on their face at UVA and for us to whip UNC's bootay and win the regular season outright.

I would so very much love for us to face Maryland in the ACC tournament final. I have zero doubt we're the better team. We completely blew them out in Cameron and they pulled out a tight one at senior night in the Comcast. I would absolutely love a matchup with them again.

Spam Filter
03-03-2010, 11:22 PM
I'm not the least bit shocked we lost. Maryland is really good, and they have been for several weeks now.

Our guys can handle this. The slow start didn't kill us; failing to extend the lead a bit when we had a chance in the second half killed us. We let MD stay in it.

I know we haven't been in many close games this season, but my goodness, we have to be better down the stretch. There are so many other ways to score points in the final three minutes than launching 3-pointers. I don't understand our fascination with that shot late in games.

For some reason, though, teams are periodically going to shoot ridiculous percentages against us. We gotta figure out ways to be more disruptive on those nights, because someone will absolutely do that to us in the NCAAT.

Agreed, very frustrating that in several close games this season, our go to play at the end is to launch a 3 pointer, rather than trying to get to the rim. The main problem with 3 pointers is that they tend to create long rebounds which also nullify our height advantage is getting the misses. Drive to the hoop, and either draw a foul or get a put back.

duke09hms
03-03-2010, 11:22 PM
Good news is the ACC tournament and NCAA's aren't played on the road... Hell of an effort to come back but Duke just couldn't seem to finish down the stretch. Greivis hit a few circus shots and that's all it really took. I'm confident though if Duke gets them again that things will be different.

Beat Carolina, get the #1 seed and go win the ACC tournament. You do that and a number #1 seed in the NCAA's may follow.

In the NCAAs, all of Duke's games are road games.
All the other teams' fans will be rooting hard for us to go down.

_Gary
03-03-2010, 11:22 PM
A possible silver lining: Andre had a nice stroke in the 2nd half, hitting a couple of 3's. Maybe that gets him off the snide, which only helps us all the more as we move toward the tournaments.

jkidd31
03-03-2010, 11:22 PM
I sat in the middle on the Maryland section in the 2001 NCAA Semis. I can attest to what losers they are. Good natured riping and jabbing is one thing. These people take it to a whole new level. End of the day it a game and we go back to class/work the following day.

DevilHorns
03-03-2010, 11:22 PM
THE REFS DID NOT WIN THIS GAME FOR MARYLAND. EVERY GAME HAS ITS SHARE OF POOR CALLS / NO-CALLS.

IN THE END, MD TOOK SOME RIDICULOUS SHOTS AND SIMPLY MADE THEM. WE DIDNT.

I think our defense faded a little bit at the end (arguably), but the energy and home support was incredibly hard to overcome. We simply didnt make enough open 3s or open looks.

OldSchool
03-03-2010, 11:22 PM
I thought for us the critical time of the game was from about 16:30 to 15:00 of the second half, with the score 46-44.

During that minute and a half, we got six rebounds in a row and missed seven (!) shots in a row.

This was so deflating after we spent so much energy coming out in the second half and playing excellent defense against them.

To crash the boards so hard and to come up empty so many times in that stretch killed our momentum, at a point where we were poised to open up a working margin.

devildownunder
03-03-2010, 11:23 PM
the storming the court nonsense is just silly. A Top 25 team holds serve on their home court and they think they should storm the court?

It just screams fan stupidity and is almost an admission that the team's fans believe/know their team's win was a joke/fluke.

Perhaps, the ACC should go the route of the SEC and fine the bleep out of a school when their fans storm the court.

They beat a top-4 team, that had beaten them 6 straight (wasn't that the number?), on senior night, in prime time, on national TV, in a game that went down to the wire and put them into a tie for the conference lead.

There is no shame in storming the court for that.

Sorry, but the snobbery about storming the court just irks me. We should not be in the habit of pooh-poohing and mocking the enthusiasm of fans.

Kfanarmy
03-03-2010, 11:23 PM
At the end of the game, Duke had given up a bit on the three...Nolan is the right guy to be driving in the lane then, not Jon. Nolan is fast enough to create the foul. Jon got stuck under the basket several times. Have to realize what the other team's D is going to do when they know you are going to go to the basket and have the right guy trying to drive into the paint....or try to pass in, one of those times when passing into a big guy might have paid dividends...just not good offensive strategy there. Hopefully can learn from this. I am a bit concerned about how this will affect the team emotionally.

dukelion
03-03-2010, 11:23 PM
Williams shoots less than 50% from the line and he's lights out tonight...7-9.

Bowie and Hayes shot 10-12 combined and sometimes I swear they just threw the ball up at the rim with no arc and it still went in.

Just one of those emotional nights.

We had a chance early in the second to take a significant lead and break their spirit but we missed some threes to do it.

Give the terps credit Vasquez hit some tough.......and I mean tough shots down the stretch.

I was pleased was Nolan though.

loran16
03-03-2010, 11:23 PM
Good news is the ACC tournament and NCAA's aren't played on the road... Hell of an effort to come back but Duke just couldn't seem to finish down the stretch. Greivis hit a few circus shots and that's all it really took. I'm confident though if Duke gets them again that things will be different.

Beat Carolina, get the #1 seed and go win the ACC tournament. You do that and a number #1 seed in the NCAA's may follow.

Normally I agree. But remember, there's two reasons why a team plays MUCH better at home:
1. The Opponent's are more familiar and comfortable on their floor.
2. They're not comfortable leaving the comfort of their fans and familiar stadium.

#1 goes away on neutral sites. #2 does not. We got to pray it's #1. (Our Neutral Site stats don't really help....3 games were in MSG and the last was vs Iowa State.)

Devilsfan
03-03-2010, 11:23 PM
No complaints. That was definitely a walk and over and back by Scheyer. The refs are honest I'm sure. I've never heard of a ref going to jail for throwing a game. It's just a game and no one ever bets on college sports.

strawbs
03-03-2010, 11:24 PM
just some quick thoughts:
1. what the hell was miles thinking taking that 3? thank god it went in or K might not have played him the rest of the season.

2. the over and back call, then the traveling call turned the game. You cannot tell me different. Ya we could have still won, but those calls made it an extremely uphill battle the rest of the way.

3. I just want to say how much i appreciate that zoubek came back in with the dislocated finger and finished out the game. I have been tough on zoubek over the years, but his toughness and passion are starting to really show through this year, and i appreciate the effort.

4. I don't know about you all, but i'm proud of the guys for battling back from a big hole early and nearly stealing one in a hostile environment. We are going to be a tough team to beat from here on out.

GO DUKE!

CameronDuke
03-03-2010, 11:24 PM
I'm still steaming.

I'll try to keep it civil.

But Jesus does that tick me off. We didn't play great, but something about losing to them eats at me.

I HOPE we see them in Greensboro.

Great effort coming back, I honestly didn't think we'd keep it that close and put ourselves in a position to win. They just hit shots at the right time. I would like to see Vasquez hit that running jumper going to his right down the lane again, maybe with no one even guarding him. I bet he couldn't.

Nolan and Scheyer stepped up at game time. Zoubs was a beast on the boards. But UMD would have beat the 1992 USA Dream Team in that environment tonight. PLEASE let us play them again in Greensboro.

That is all.

I hope UNC is ready to get their @s$e$ kicked on Saturday. Go to hell Carolina.

Let's Go Duke.

roywhite
03-03-2010, 11:25 PM
Greivis hit the shots late, but the role players killed us---Mosely, Hayes, and Bowie. Do those guys play like that in the ACC Tournament finals? no way...

Lulu
03-03-2010, 11:25 PM
I don't care what anyone says about being a poor sport, I fully blame the refs for this one. Sure, any game any night can be won by any team if they get lucky and the shots fall and so Duke could have one this one, but those refs made some of the most blatantly incorrect calls I remember seeing and it was demoralizing and gave Maryland a quick 5pts that gave them a huge boost when we were just breaking them.

devildownunder
03-03-2010, 11:25 PM
In the NCAAs, all of Duke's games are road games.
All the other teams' fans will be rooting hard for us to go down.

True, but that's not the same as playing in a team's home arena -- unless we get stuck playing somebody in Rupp again or something. Then we're screwed.

AlaskanAssassin
03-03-2010, 11:25 PM
As many have mentioned, Andre is beginning to get his confidence back-which is great. Kind of wished we got the ball to him a little earlier like when Jon was stuck under the basket and when Nolan took that little jumper. Surely, it would have made a difference.

roywhite
03-03-2010, 11:26 PM
They beat a top-4 team, that had beaten them 6 straight (wasn't that the number?), on senior night, in prime time, on national TV, in a game that went down to the wire and put them into a tie for the conference lead.

There is no shame in storming the court for that.

Sorry, but the snobbery about storming the court just irks me. We should not be in the habit of pooh-poohing and mocking the enthusiasm of fans.

Storming the court sucks.

It's dangerous as hell.

91devil
03-03-2010, 11:26 PM
I thought for us the critical time of the game was from about 16:30 to 15:00 of the second half, with the score 46-44.

During that minute and a half, we got six rebounds in a row and missed seven (!) shots in a row.

Agreed...this was the time when we had the chance to get a really comfortable working margin, and didn't. What was the stat they showed...Maryland went eleven minutes with only two field goals?

After that, UMD regained its composure, tied the game and made it a twelve minute free for all.

Duvall
03-03-2010, 11:26 PM
They beat a top-4 team, that had beaten them 6 straight (wasn't that the number?), on senior night, in prime time, on national TV, in a game that went down to the wire and put them into a tie for the conference lead.

There is no shame in storming the court for that.

Sorry, but the snobbery about storming the court just irks me. We should not be in the habit of pooh-poohing and mocking the enthusiasm of fans.

Oh, please. Storming the court is stupid, self-indulgent, dangerous and inane. It should be banned on every floor in the country, after every game.

Fans need to grow up and realize that it isn't about them.

Spam Filter
03-03-2010, 11:26 PM
I don't disagree with you but you can't blame this loss on Zoubs. He really played a nice game and especially with the hurt hand and all. We lost because of a very poor start, some crazy circus shots by MD, very poor FT shooting, by us, great leadership by Vasquez, and, yes, some AWFUL calls by the zebras.

I want nothing more now than to see UMD, on a hangover from this game, fall on their face at UVA and for us to whip UNC's bootay and win the regular season outright.

I am not blaming the loss on him. But that was one of the major plays in the game. Close games are determined by one of those plays, either you make it and win, or you don't make it and lose.

Zoubek had a chance to make a winning play, and come up short, he's got to learn from this and know that next time in a similar situation he has to make that play.

BlueintheFace
03-03-2010, 11:26 PM
I have to disagree. There was no choke job here. Teams win tight games by making plays, doesn't mean the other one choked. And Jon did make big plays at the end as well, they just didn't all go down like they did for Vasquez.

The thing is, it wasn't just the end of the game:

7-21
3-10 on threes
4 turnovers to 2 assists.

Regarding Late Game situations:

I got in an argument a little earlier in the year with a few others about what we want to do late in the shot clock and late in the game. My argument was that we are better off putting the ball in Nolan's hands to drive, shoot, or get fouled. Whereas, with Jon, you know he is going to come off that high screen and shoot the slightly fading three.

It goes in sometimes, which is huge, but it doesn't seem like the most efficient play to me. less chance for foul and less chance for made basket. Today we saw the same thing twice. When he went baseline, what happened?

It's not really a knock on him at all, just an argument for what I think is a more efficient and effective option.

HateCarolina
03-03-2010, 11:26 PM
They beat a top-4 team, that had beaten them 6 straight (wasn't that the number?), on senior night, in prime time, on national TV, in a game that went down to the wire and put them into a tie for the conference lead.

There is no shame in storming the court for that.

Sorry, but the snobbery about storming the court just irks me. We should not be in the habit of pooh-poohing and mocking the enthusiasm of fans.

I guess your the ultimate naysayer this evening. I guess to each his own opinion mate, but you see to be looking for things to disagree with this evening. I personally could care less for them storming the court, but its the all around obnoxious behavior by their fans that irks the heck out of me. Good win for them, but come on...show some darn class. At least GV showed serious class in the post game interview.

jv001
03-03-2010, 11:26 PM
I'm not the least bit shocked we lost. Maryland is really good, and they have been for several weeks now.

Our guys can handle this. The slow start didn't kill us; failing to extend the lead a bit when we had a chance in the second half killed us. We let MD stay in it.

I know we haven't been in many close games this season, but my goodness, we have to be better down the stretch. There are so many other ways to score points in the final three minutes than launching 3-pointers. I don't understand our fascination with that shot late in games.

For some reason, though, teams are periodically going to shoot ridiculous percentages against us. We gotta figure out ways to be more disruptive on those nights, because someone will absolutely do that to us in the NCAAT.

I agree that when we went up 4 or 5 at the start of the 2nd half we let them off the hook. We played solid d, but could not buy a shot. And I agree that we resort to launching too many 3s at the end of games when we're behind. We just came unglued. When they began to get their confidence back, I wish we would have went back into the zone we played in the first half. I know I'm going to get creamed for saying that, but it's how I feel. Go Duke!

calltheobvious
03-03-2010, 11:27 PM
No complaints. That was definitely a walk and over and back by Scheyer. The refs are honest I'm sure. I've never heard of a ref going to jail for throwing a game. It's just a game and no one ever bets on college sports.


Referees are humans. They miss plays. They doesn't mean they deserve to have their character questioned.

There's no place for that here. Go away.

77devil
03-03-2010, 11:27 PM
That was definitely a walk and over and back by Scheyer.

Definitely not.

Philadukie
03-03-2010, 11:27 PM
[QUOTE=Neals384;372643]Good news - this was Duke's last Road game of the season. QUOTE]

Have you not watched Duke in the NCAA tournament the last ten years? Every game in the tournament is an away game for Duke.

Anyhow, this was a tough game to win. Most teams would not. We showed a lot of toughness. Just couldn't get the shots to fall down the stretch, and they could.

Kfanarmy
03-03-2010, 11:28 PM
Agreed, very frustrating that in several close games this season, our go to play at the end is to launch a 3 pointer, rather than trying to get to the rim. The main problem with 3 pointers is that they tend to create long rebounds which also nullify our height advantage is getting the misses. Drive to the hoop, and either draw a foul or get a put back. You must not have watched the last 1:30....we simply had the wrong guy driving...and no attempt to get the ball to a big positioned in the paint.

SharkD
03-03-2010, 11:29 PM
No complaints. That was definitely a walk and over and back by Scheyer. The refs are honest I'm sure. I've never heard of a ref going to jail for throwing a game. It's just a game and no one ever bets on college sports.

You're right. The NCAA rules clearly state that if your name rhymes with Ron Pschmyer, you have to dribble while moonwalking and whistling the Habanera, else it's a traveling violation if you move your pivot foot, even if you dribble.

jipops
03-03-2010, 11:29 PM
THE REFS DID NOT WIN THIS GAME FOR MARYLAND. EVERY GAME HAS ITS SHARE OF POOR CALLS / NO-CALLS.

IN THE END, MD TOOK SOME RIDICULOUS SHOTS AND SIMPLY MADE THEM. WE DIDNT.

I think our defense faded a little bit at the end (arguably), but the energy and home support was incredibly hard to overcome. We simply didnt make enough open 3s or open looks.

Yeah seriously. Zoubek could have easily fouled out of this one early if some of the contact hadn't been let go.

The refs didn't put the circus shot through the net for Greives. Not once while I was watching this game did I feel the refs were somehow affecting the outcome. We had many opportunities to pull this one out but didn't take advantage.

No terping like babies. We lost, it happens. I'm emotionally invested in this team as much as anyone but I probably won't even be losing any sleep on this one. We have Kerlina on Saturday.

Devilsfan
03-03-2010, 11:29 PM
Someone please tell me what the high class Maryland fans were chanting to Jon. It sounded like their greeting for JJ. The media talks about West Virginia fans. What about this great student body. Alleast they didn't offer Mrs. Scheyer a bottle of water like they offered Mrs. Boozer.

weezie
03-03-2010, 11:30 PM
I don't care what anyone says about being a poor sport, I fully blame the refs for this one. Sure, any game any night can be one by any team if they get lucky and the shots fall and so Duke could have one this one, but those refs made some of the most blatantly incorrect calls I remember seeing and it was demoralizing and gave Maryland a quick 5pts that gave them a huge boost when we were just breaking them.

I agree, but what about the fouls shots we missed!
Ah well.....NEXT!
ol' roy is probably booking a golf trip already, plenty of free time coming up for him.

Andre Buckner Fan
03-03-2010, 11:30 PM
Vasquez was very generous after the game. No cheap shots during the interview. He stopped Erin Andrews to compliment Scheyer, Nolan and Singler. He's not as crass as his fans. He's matured a lot since claiming that Cameron was his court. He stayed his senior year and played his heart out on his home court. I'll give him this one.

Face it, when he made that circus shot... the game was over... that thing bounced like twenty times and he shot it off balance. Good for him. This was his night.

Duke will be back and there won't be any questionable over and back calls or walk calls.

We fought back into this thing in a rough, rough environment. There is only cause to worry if we come out flat against UNC and I don't see that happening.

loldevilz
03-03-2010, 11:31 PM
Very very atypical play by Jon down the stretch. I am not going to say he lost it for us because GV was a stud at the end and hit shots even he has no business making, but Jon really choked a bit (that feels weird to type, but true).

I totally agree that Jon was a huge disappointment this game. The fact is that we didn't play like a great team tonight. The one good thing about this game is that we never have to play Maryland at Maryland again.

weezie
03-03-2010, 11:31 PM
Someone please tell me what the high class Maryland fans were chanting to Jon. It sounded like their greeting for JJ.

It most certainly was. Wonder why ESPN never complains about it?

geraldsneighbor
03-03-2010, 11:31 PM
Does anyone know if Singler made it out alive after the court storming? I couldnt tell if he found the handshake line. What a joke...

cbnaylor
03-03-2010, 11:31 PM
Like Usher once said, "Sometimes, you've got to let it burn." This was by far the toughest loss to swallow thus far this season. I wish we would have stayed in the 3-2 zone but oh well. Here's to Duke winning Saturday night and Maryland losing.....nobody wants to share the ACC Regular Season Title!

Duke76
03-03-2010, 11:32 PM
was pretty darn effective in late minutes of the first half, would have thought we would have used it in the 2nd some, especially down the stretch. It would have stop the drives by G. V., imo

VaDukie
03-03-2010, 11:32 PM
1. I love Grevis. My favorite non-Duke player since Julius Hodge. Part of me feels good for him to get this win in his last home game because let's face it, Maryland isn't going anywhere in March.
2. I hate the Maryland fan base. Chanting F*** Duke and F*** you Scheyer is just ridiculous. I have UNC fans that I consider friends. I have never been able to say the same about Maryland fans.
3. We'll see them next Sunday if they can make it. I'd love a rematch.

weezie
03-03-2010, 11:33 PM
Duke will be back and there won't be any questionable over and back calls

I just wonder about that.

devildownunder
03-03-2010, 11:33 PM
Storming the court sucks.

It's dangerous as hell.

If you want say it's bad because you think it's dangerous -- and therefore should never be done by anyone -- that's one thing.

What I'm talking about is the arrogant "oh, look, their fanbase isn't sophisticated enough to know when it's cool to rush the floor" stuff.

Rudy
03-03-2010, 11:33 PM
Maryland fans have long been the worst in the ACC and they lived up to that billing tonight, apparently from what you guys say (sound was off for me).

Our guys stepped up the intensity in the second half and made it a great game. We didn't shoot particularly well from anywhere and Md made some improbable shots, particularly Hayes and Vasquez near the end putting it away. Good players riding a wave of emotional high do that sometimes.

ChrisP
03-03-2010, 11:33 PM
Here, here! From your words to the forum's -- and fanbase's -- ears. It's disgusting to hear so many people on here griping about the zebras.

WE. ARE. BETTER. THAN. THAT!

I think we are better than that. It's only when you see us get totally hosed that people complain like they have tonight. I was leading the whine parade about the refs on the Pre-Game/In Game thread but I don't believe it's why we lost. But...it sure as hell didn't help!

I think mentioning the refs after a very, very poorly officiated game like this one is totally justified. If you don't like it, that's certainly your prerogative.

jhole
03-03-2010, 11:34 PM
Ditto to most all the comments here, tough place to play, circus shots, et al. However I can't get away from the fact that at crunch time we are playing 3 on 5 on offense. Against big time teams we can't count on regular scoring offense from Thomas or Zoub, nothing personal, great players for us, just fact. Next year (dare I look forward) we should have 4 or 5 consistently good scoring threats depending on the lineup, guys who are legitimate scoring threats, and will not be so dependent on the big 3.

calltheobvious
03-03-2010, 11:34 PM
If you were a bought-and-paid-for official, you would choose to try to influence the outcome in which of the following ways?

1) By giving a preponderance of the 50/50-ish calls to one side.

or

2) By kicking the **** out of two plays that the entire world will know immediately were missed.

Thanks.

jkidd31
03-03-2010, 11:35 PM
For some reason I think back to 2001 (I'm feeling nostalgic) lose to Maryland at our place...plus Boozer breaks his foot. We pay them back to days later in a classic and don't lose again. I like this team and think they'll be fine.

Devilsfan
03-03-2010, 11:36 PM
ESPN probably had several of their employees joining the Scheyer chant from their remote locations. I think they should use it for their future TV promos.

devildownunder
03-03-2010, 11:36 PM
Oh, please. Storming the court is stupid, self-indulgent, dangerous and inane. It should be banned on every floor in the country, after every game.

Fans need to grow up and realize that it isn't about them.

As long as you truly believe it should never be done by anyone, for safety reasons, fine.

Most posts I see complaining about aren't along those lines.

Safety is not relevant to the argument I'm making. I'm talking about attitude.

weezie
03-03-2010, 11:36 PM
ESPN probably had several of their employees joining the Scheyer chant from their remote locations. I think they should use it for thir future TV promos.

Somehow you made me smile!

jipops
03-03-2010, 11:37 PM
Greivis hit the shots late, but the role players killed us---Mosely, Hayes, and Bowie. Do those guys play like that in the ACC Tournament finals? no way...

...and the Williams kid as well, especially at the ft line. I give the Terps all the credit for this win. But I wouldn't bet on repeat performance either.

ChrisP
03-03-2010, 11:37 PM
I totally agree that Jon was a huge disappointment this game. The fact is that we didn't play like a great team tonight. The one good thing about this game is that we never have to play Maryland at Maryland again.

Wow. Last time someone used the "D" word about Jason Williams, you would have thought he'd been compared to Hitler from the reaction on this board so..be careful there. Jon's awesome and I have NEVER EVER been disappointed in him in ANY way. He had an off game...it happens.

Also, you sure about us never having to play MD at MD again? I assume you mean this season and in that case, you'd be correct but "never" is a long time :D

Andre Buckner Fan
03-03-2010, 11:37 PM
If you were a bought-and-paid-for official, you would choose to try to influence the outcome in which of the following ways?

No one is alleging bribery.
They are alleging bias.

YourLandlord
03-03-2010, 11:37 PM
I've always heard it's a good school, and you would think a good school would have smart kids. So, I don't know if these kids are stupid, or just a bunch of smart douchebags...You've heard wrong. It's not.

Exiled_Devil
03-03-2010, 11:38 PM
Honestly, I am amazed at the behavior of the Terp students. I heard the f word more in this basketball game on national television than on the entire first season of the Sopranos. Seriously... using it as the chorus during that one overplayed song?


Here (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgb/fcc475B.cfm)'s the FCC page for reporting obscene content on TV. I'd like to see some consequences for their behavior.

KandG
03-03-2010, 11:38 PM
Very good win by Maryland. I thought the game was lost in two places -- first when we couldn't build on the momentum we got at the start of the second half, blowing some possessions and a chance to build a bigger lead. Some of that was missing FTs, some of that was questionable officiating, some just bad luck.

Second were the key plays at the end of the game, specifically the inability of Zoubek to get that rebound, and the 3 pointer by Nolan (I grimaced the moment he took it). The misses by Scheyer after that weren't much better -- did Singler even get a look down the stretch? But I'm also going to credit Maryland's defense, which was very good for most of the final five minutes.

I think we'll be fine after this loss. One thing I'd really like to see is some improvement in the Plumlees' ability to have more of a positive impact on the game in their stints -- currently, there's just too much of a falloff from Zoubek, and I think Zoub's minutes really took a toll on him at the end. Maybe the tournament will be a chance for Mason and Miles to take it to the next level.

calltheobvious
03-03-2010, 11:38 PM
No one is alleging bribery.
They are alleging bias.

You need to re-read this thread.

Wander
03-03-2010, 11:38 PM
Lose to UNC and it's yet another Duke decline late in the season. Beat Carolina soundly and this loss is more or less irrelevant, and no more troubling than Kansas or Kentucky losing to Oklahoma State or South Carolina. We'll see.

HateCarolina
03-03-2010, 11:39 PM
If you were a bought-and-paid-for official, you would choose to try to influence the outcome in which of the following ways?

1) By giving a preponderance of the 50/50-ish calls to one side.

or

2) By kicking the **** out of two plays that the entire world will know immediately were missed.

Thanks.

um...I think all of us complaining/commenting about the bad calls by the refs are speaking with emotion right now and I know I made a comment in the in-game thread about Wes getting "paid off" which was an offhand sarcastic comment. The bottom line here for me is that the refs did not "call the obvious" but rather made a few really bad calls including not putting more time on the clock at the end of the first half.

With all that said after reading other fans comments I am going to try and forget this game and look forward to Saturday night. Good night all and God bless the Blue Devils!!! And Carolina, of course, can go to Hell!!!

jkidd31
03-03-2010, 11:39 PM
This game reminded me of some of the games I've been to at Michigan where it seemed like some of the shots they made were like they had no business making. Like I said hope we play these guys on the 14th.

OldSchool
03-03-2010, 11:39 PM
It is so frustrating to see Duke not seek to take advantage of beating the full court press.

Our team is almost always content, once the ball is advanced to halfcourt, to pull it out and set up the half court offense, even if there is a 3-on-2 or other advantage going to the basket. I recall only one time this game where we tried to take advantage, which I think was by Nolan.

Also, props to Gary Williams for what he has done with his team. He is a very good basketball coach. I am not saying he is a great recruiter, or a good public relations guy, what I am saying is that he does a good job teaching his players how to play the way he wants them to play and getting a lot out of his players. Give Gary the players Roy has and he would have them finishing near the top of the league this year.

jipops
03-03-2010, 11:39 PM
I don't care what anyone says about being a poor sport, I fully blame the refs for this one. Sure, any game any night can be won by any team if they get lucky and the shots fall and so Duke could have one this one, but those refs made some of the most blatantly incorrect calls I remember seeing and it was demoralizing and gave Maryland a quick 5pts that gave them a huge boost when we were just breaking them.

You and Len Elmore should hang out. You two focus on officiating more than the actual plays that were made.

Seriously the focus on officiating is real discouraging. Not once during this game did I feel like officiating was affecting the outcome of this one. I can't believe there are actually people on this board complaining about it. It is very disappointing.

Maryland played great, live with it. Let's see if they can do it again.

CrazieDUMB
03-03-2010, 11:39 PM
You know, tough to be upset about this game. We played pretty good defense, but they just hit some tough shots. Can't believe they shot 50% tho, that's surprising.

Zou played really well but definitely wasn't a worldbeater like he was last time. The big 3 hit some big shots, and made plays at important times, but none of them was stellar the whole way through.

It's a tough loss, esp bc we got outplayed, but at the same time hopefully it'll get us revved up for Carolina (as if we needed more motivation).

Let's do it Devils

allenmurray
03-03-2010, 11:40 PM
Sorry, but the snobbery about storming the court just irks me. We should not be in the habit of pooh-poohing and mocking the enthusiasm of fans.

http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2005/janfeb/features/kay.html

Until, of course, someone is paralyzed from the neck down. It is dangerous and stupid. Just ask Joe Kay.

bl33dblu3
03-03-2010, 11:42 PM
espn.com's front page is trash

Devilsfan
03-03-2010, 11:43 PM
Doesn't anyone remember the Buckeye vs. Wisc. football game several years ago? Wisc. fans trying to storm the field.

jipops
03-03-2010, 11:43 PM
Also, props to Gary Williams for what he has done with his team. He is a very good basketball coach. I am not saying he is a great recruiter, or a good public relations guy, what I am saying is that he does a good job teaching his players how to play the way he wants them to play and getting a lot out of his players. Give Gary the players Roy has and he would have them finishing near the top of the league this year.

No one can question Gary's skills as a coach. I would venture to say that Greivis won ACC POY and Gary won ACC COY honors after this game. It certainly is a huge night for them. I cannot stress enough how badly I want our guys to play them again.

CameronDuke
03-03-2010, 11:43 PM
I love the effort that Zoubs and LT give us on the offensive rebounding front, but I think if they looked to put the ball back up for layups right after they grabbed the rebound, we would be better. Numerous times, Zoubs especially, would get an amazing rebound and be right under the basket and defer to Scheyer or Smith or Singler. Instead, I think he could turn right back around and draw a foul while shooting or lay the ball up. I think he could have had 10points easily if he had done this a few more times. He still fought his @S$ off playing with a dislocated finger.

BlueintheFace
03-03-2010, 11:43 PM
Bottom Line:

GV Senior Night (he played great)

Duke Played Really Hard

Some Questionable Calls

Poor Execution Down the stretch

Comcast was a hornet's nest

We were in it in the last minute

Not a Bad Loss

DukeGirl4ever
03-03-2010, 11:44 PM
I'm coming in late here....but did anyone question the O-rebound that Williams had over Zoubs that put Maryland up 2? After that, the look on our faces was one of defeat. Zoubek just looked down at the floor, shook his head, and slowly made his way back down the court.

Don't get me wrong, Zoubs did a decent job on the glass again tonight and he played hurt, I just felt that was the momentum shift....and then Mr. Slick Mohawk's circus shot was the dagger.

A-Tex Devil
03-03-2010, 11:46 PM
Final thoughts:

- Greivis is a douche but a great college player. He'll be a D-league all-star.

- Maryland fans are an abomination. The chants. The rushing the court (K-State had it right when they beat #1 Texas this year and specifically did NOT rush the court, and they are... wait for it... K-State!!!!!).

- I don't mind the carping on officials in the in-game thread, - it's instant reaction analysis. But let it go now. And even though the back to back backcourt and travel were the worst back-to-back violations I've ever seen called in that short of a time span, MD took that game from us taking HORSE shots. It wasn't the refs.

- 13-3. We beat UNC, make the finals of the ACC tourney, and so long as KSU, Purdue and Ohio St. don't win out, we are still a 1 seed.

pamtar
03-03-2010, 11:47 PM
[QUOTE=Exiled_Devil;372709]Here (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgb/fcc475B.cfm)'s the FCC page for reporting obscene content on TV. I'd like to see some consequences for their behavior.[/QUOTE

This should work for the description of offense: "ESPN, clearly allowed to be audible, without apology or attempt to mitigate, the choral use of the word "f&@k" on countless occasions.

Neals384
03-03-2010, 11:47 PM
Here (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgb/fcc475B.cfm)'s the FCC page for reporting obscene content on TV. I'd like to see some consequences for their behavior.

Pretty sure that FCC complaint applies to over-the-air broadcasts. Doesn't apply to ESPN.

UrinalCake
03-03-2010, 11:47 PM
Maryland played great but for some reason I don't see them making the ACC tournament final. I don't see them sustaining such a high level of energy for three straight days.

Also, I don't think we have any chance at a 1 seed right now. It's not unreasonable that we could even slip to a 3. The ACC tournament field is not just going to roll over for us.

A-Tex Devil
03-03-2010, 11:48 PM
Maryland played great but for some reason I don't see them making the ACC tournament final. I don't see them sustaining such a high level of energy for three straight days.

Also, I don't think we have any chance at a 1 seed right now. It's not unreasonable that we could even slip to a 3. The ACC tournament field is not just going to roll over for us.

????? Who overtakes us for a 1 and barring 3 straight losses, how do we end up a 3?

ice-9
03-03-2010, 11:49 PM
We didn't lose this game...Maryland won it. We played well enough, but Maryland just wanted it more than we did.

Our boys need to learn that you can't expect opponents to fold...we gotta wrest victory away from their cold, prying fingers. You could see us deflated when that Bowie guy kept making shot after shot to tie the game. We need to learn to keep our heads up and play on.

roywhite
03-03-2010, 11:50 PM
Maryland played great but for some reason I don't see them making the ACC tournament final. I don't see them sustaining such a high level of energy for three straight days.

Also, I don't think we have any chance at a 1 seed right now. It's not unreasonable that we could even slip to a 3. The ACC tournament field is not just going to roll over for us.

#1 seed more likely than a #3 seed IMO. We can win out and have good chance at #1 or beat UNC, win at least one game in the ACC tournament and get no worse than a #2.

By the way, I like our chances in the ACC Tournament, and hope we get the Terps in the finals.

JamminJoe
03-03-2010, 11:50 PM
Disappointed in all the terpin' and hypocritical complaints. Duke fans using vulgar language and rushing the court? Never.:rolleyes:

That was a tough loss, but MD was playing at a high level and we didn't back down until time ran out. Let's take 'em in the tourny.

Kfanarmy
03-03-2010, 11:51 PM
Game probably sealed it for GV...stat lines look similar until you get to shooting percentage... JS 7/21; GV 6/13 and he hit shots when the pressure was on down the stretch.

on another note...The one thing this version of Duke basketball has struggled with all year is shooting percentage inside...when you shoot the ball so poorly inside, it is actually advantageous to shoot 3's where the make percentage is only slightly worse, but you get two instead of three...long rebounds on the missed threes are really what hurts. I've been wishing all year that they would get better at shooting inside the arc, but it aint gonna happen...just not sure you can beat a team that is shooting well from inside if you can't hit twos and shoot in the 35% range from three...

loldevilz
03-03-2010, 11:51 PM
Maryland played great but for some reason I don't see them making the ACC tournament final. I don't see them sustaining such a high level of energy for three straight days.

Also, I don't think we have any chance at a 1 seed right now. It's not unreasonable that we could even slip to a 3. The ACC tournament field is not just going to roll over for us.

This is what I feared...I think OSU gets it. We aren't getting any breaks here.

Lulu
03-03-2010, 11:52 PM
You and Len Elmore should hang out. You two focus on officiating more than the actual plays that were made.

Seriously the focus on officiating is real discouraging. Not once during this game did I feel like officiating was affecting the outcome of this one. I can't believe there are actually people on this board complaining about it. It is very disappointing.

Maryland played great, live with it. Let's see if they can do it again.

I haven't complained about the refs in any other loss. I gladly blame Duke when we lose and am more likely to do so, and Duke didn't play great tonight.

But how many times have you seen two back-to-back calls that are irrefutable even to the opposing team's fans? That were clear as day without the help of slow-mo? There's gray area when it comes to missed traveling violations, but not the other way around with this particular play. It just came out of nowhere. I couldn't believe one of the other officials didn't overturn that over-and-back call. There were other calls that aren't worth mentioning because they're the type that do balance out, but these were astonishing. We all saw what Coach K thought and at that point I think the team's emotion turned on them.

jipops
03-03-2010, 11:52 PM
The thing is, it wasn't just the end of the game:

7-21
3-10 on threes
4 turnovers to 2 assists.

Regarding Late Game situations:

I got in an argument a little earlier in the year with a few others about what we want to do late in the shot clock and late in the game. My argument was that we are better off putting the ball in Nolan's hands to drive, shoot, or get fouled. Whereas, with Jon, you know he is going to come off that high screen and shoot the slightly fading three.

It goes in sometimes, which is huge, but it doesn't seem like the most efficient play to me. less chance for foul and less chance for made basket. Today we saw the same thing twice. When he went baseline, what happened?

It's not really a knock on him at all, just an argument for what I think is a more efficient and effective option.

But Jon did score on a drive late, a very impressive move in fact where he hung in the air and changed his shot. He had another late drive with an excellent look but the shot just trickled off the rim.

Jon has been struggling with his shot lately. That is not unique to tonight's game. Kyle didn't shoot a high percentage either. We haven't had a high % offense for awhile now.

But I didn't think Jon played poorly as much as Maryland's defense on him was just very, very good.

Duke's best offense was Nolan on the drive and it kept us in the game the last 10 minutes. But they simply made plays and hit some enormously difficult shots at the end.

I just don't think you can't point to any one player on this one.

BlueintheFace
03-03-2010, 11:52 PM
K didn't sound too down. Thought we played winning basketball, but good shots weren't falling through a lot of the 2nd half. Thought we should have been up by a bit going in to the last few minutes. He liked the fight.

calltheobvious
03-03-2010, 11:53 PM
This is what I feared...I think OSU gets it. We aren't getting any breaks here.

I'm guessing you mean that we're not getting any breaks (from) here (on out).

ChrisP
03-03-2010, 11:54 PM
Very good win by Maryland. I thought the game was lost in two places -- first when we couldn't build on the momentum we got at the start of the second half, blowing some possessions and a chance to build a bigger lead. Some of that was missing FTs, some of that was questionable officiating, some just bad luck.

Second were the key plays at the end of the game, specifically the inability of Zoubek to get that rebound, and the 3 pointer by Nolan (I grimaced the moment he took it). The misses by Scheyer after that weren't much better -- did Singler even get a look down the stretch? But I'm also going to credit Maryland's defense, which was very good for most of the final five minutes.

I think we'll be fine after this loss. One thing I'd really like to see is some improvement in the Plumlees' ability to have more of a positive impact on the game in their stints -- currently, there's just too much of a falloff from Zoubek, and I think Zoub's minutes really took a toll on him at the end. Maybe the tournament will be a chance for Mason and Miles to take it to the next level.

While I, too, would LOVE to see the Plumlees' much-awaited coming out party, I don't think it's gonna happen this season. It's March already. Their problems seem to lie firmly between their ears (to me). I don't think that's gonna change anytime soon, unfortunately.

Neals384
03-03-2010, 11:54 PM
Have you not watched Duke in the NCAA tournament the last ten years? Every game in the tournament is an away game for Duke.


Umm "road game" is defined as a game played on the other team's home court...

jv001
03-03-2010, 11:55 PM
Maryland played great but for some reason I don't see them making the ACC tournament final. I don't see them sustaining such a high level of energy for three straight days.

Also, I don't think we have any chance at a 1 seed right now. It's not unreasonable that we could even slip to a 3. The ACC tournament field is not just going to roll over for us.

I think the twerps are playing pretty good right now. What a win at VA Tech. Beats the best team in the ACC and has a good X & O coach in Gary Williams. I expect them to make it to the finals, just as I think Duke will make it to the finals. As for seeds, I see us with a #1 or #2. It will take a win over unc and a tourney championship to secure a 1. Go Duke!

roywhite
03-03-2010, 11:55 PM
Disappointed in all the terpin' and hypocritical complaints. Duke fans using vulgar language and rushing the court? Never.:rolleyes:

That was a tough loss, but MD was playing at a high level and we didn't back down until time ran out. Let's take 'em in the tourny.

JamminJoe...welcome to the board.

If you find an equivalence between Duke fans and Maryland fans, you're going to have a hard time here.

Lord Ash
03-03-2010, 11:55 PM
I'm coming in late here....but did anyone question the O-rebound that Williams had over Zoubs that put Maryland up 2? After that, the look on our faces was one of defeat. Zoubek just looked down at the floor, shook his head, and slowly made his way back down the court.

Don't get me wrong, Zoubs did a decent job on the glass again tonight and he played hurt, I just felt that was the momentum shift....and then Mr. Slick Mohawk's circus shot was the dagger.

I actually felt the same way; you just saw everyones shoulders sag all at once... though to be fair, mine did too.

And to the Maryland fan with one post who posted above... as a former Crazy myself, no, you have never, EVER heard anything like that at Duke.

EVER.

K actually reamed out the students for yelling "You suck" in the intros and made us stop. So no, the former military guy isn't going to allow us to sing "F Duke" or whatever it was as a chorus for a song a dozen times;)

weezie
03-03-2010, 11:55 PM
These 9pm games just wear me out.
Tomorrow: Watch out world, get out of my way. :mad:

Spam Filter
03-03-2010, 11:56 PM
Umm "road game" is defined as a game played on the other team's home court...

Yes, but when the entire arena is rooting against you vocally, the location is trivial. It's a road game.

BlueintheFace
03-03-2010, 11:56 PM
But Jon did score on a drive late, a very impressive move in fact where he hung in the air and changed his shot. He had another late drive with an excellent look but the shot just trickled off the rim.

Jon has been struggling with his shot lately. That is not unique to tonight's game. Kyle didn't shoot a high percentage either. We haven't had a high % offense for awhile now.

But I didn't think Jon played poorly as much as Maryland's defense on him was just very, very good.

Duke's best offense was Nolan on the drive and it kept us in the game the last 10 minutes. But they simply made plays and hit some enormously difficult shots at the end.

I just don't think you can't point to any one player on this one.

I didn't.

I pointed to Jon's poor play down the stretch as an odd negative and later pointed out that it was somewhat in line with his play over the course of the game. I know you are itching to argue with somebody who is blaming the loss entirely on Jon, but I'm not the guy you are looking for. I saw a straw man a few pages back if you want to take him on.

Neals384
03-03-2010, 11:56 PM
just some quick thoughts:
1. what the hell was miles thinking taking that 3? thank god it went in or K might not have played him the rest of the season.

GO DUKE!

Hey, as of now, Miles is out best 3 pt shooter. 1 for 1 on the season! He may be the best in the nation!

duke09hms
03-03-2010, 11:57 PM
Umm "road game" is defined as a game played on the other team's home court...

Not for Duke. These aren't neutral site games when over 3/4 of the stadium is rooting for you to lose. Basically, Duke has to win 6 road games to win the title

roywhite
03-03-2010, 11:57 PM
Yes, but when the entire arena is rooting against you vocally, the location is trivial. It's a road game.

Won't see an NCAA tournament game with a one-sided atmosphere like we saw tonight. Just a fact. Neutral court is different than road game.

devildownunder
03-03-2010, 11:57 PM
http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2005/janfeb/features/kay.html

Until, of course, someone is paralyzed from the neck down. It is dangerous and stupid. Just ask Joe Kay.

I'll say for the last time, if you are arguing that it's unsafe, fine.

That's not my complaint.

I trust you'll tear into the Crazies the next time they storm the court, then, if safety is your concern.

Rudy
03-03-2010, 11:57 PM
[QUOTE=Exiled_Devil;372709]Here (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgb/fcc475B.cfm)'s the FCC page for reporting obscene content on TV. I'd like to see some consequences for their behavior.[/QUOTE

This should work for the description of offense: "ESPN, clearly allowed to be audible, without apology or attempt to mitigate, the choral use of the word "f&@k" on countless occasions.

Totally disagree. Don't slam ESPN. I'm glad they let it go and revealed to a national audience how grossly classless Md. fans are.

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-03-2010, 11:58 PM
Why is there no MOTM thread?

geraldsneighbor
03-03-2010, 11:58 PM
Let's be honest. If we get sent to Jacksonville it isn't the end of the world. Last year everyone was worried about noisy Carolina fans in Greensboro. Jacksonville to me just doesn't come off as an intimidating place to be sent. We will be fine. Nothing will compare to College Park.

CameronBlue
03-03-2010, 11:59 PM
Random thoughts:

From the 14 minute mark on when the game was in the low 40s until the last minute, the game was easily the best game of the ACC season. Clutch shot making by both teams. Gritty win by the Twerps, they won it fairly. Through that period Duke displayed incredible resolve, the type of toughness it takes to win championships and what was missing during the blowout loss to Georgetown. Duke needs to remember this game because they'll likely be in the same situation again in the tournament. This game should be a source of strength.

To criticize Jon is almost cruel, he hit some very tough shots in this game and overall perfomed well. Still some his decisions late in the game were poor, particularly the one when he forced up a shot when triple-teamed along the baseline. Could've been a good reason (no TOs, shot clock running out) but otherwise a poor decision and a game-changer at that. Dawkins and Nolan were having good shooting games. When Jon is running the point he has to remember the options he has in front of him. He doesn't have to be the one taking the shot.

K called two TOs, one at 11:00 another under 8 (or 4) minutes, when the next dead ball would've been the TV timeouts. Not a mistake, he had to, Duke was visibly tired and he couldn't wait and the team came out of each TO seemingly re-energized. Not dredging up the "Duke has tired legs late in the season" debate, that's not the point. Duke was tired because of game conditions and the TOs had to be called. Pretty sure Jon, Kyle and Nolan played the entire 2nd half. It is what it is.

jipops
03-03-2010, 11:59 PM
I haven't complained about the refs in any other loss. I gladly blame Duke when we lose and am more likely to do so, and Duke didn't play great tonight.

But how many times have you seen two back-to-back calls that are irrefutable even to the opposing team's fans? That were clear as day without the help of slow-mo? There's gray area when it comes to missed traveling violations, but not the other way around with this particular play. It just came out of nowhere. I couldn't believe one of the other officials didn't overturn that over-and-back call. There were other calls that aren't worth mentioning because they're the type that do balance out, but these were astonishing. We all saw what Coach K thought and at that point I think the team's emotion turned on them.

I actually felt the over and back was the correct call - Jon was the last to hit it before it went over the half court line. Even if they had over-turned that call, so what. The key to this win was Maryland making plays at the end.

You can talk about it all you want but the fact is officiating had nothing to do with the outcome of this game. Do you honestly think it did?

I'll give you this though. The 2005 game at Maryland was a game with huge missed calls at the end. First off, we had 5 guys foul out of that one. I don't think they had any. And the rebound by Gist with his foot completely out of bounds - no call - still irks me when I think about it. We were hosed in that one. This one however, a well-deserved win for Maryland.

BlueintheFace
03-03-2010, 11:59 PM
Disappointed in all the terpin' and hypocritical complaints. Duke fans using vulgar language and rushing the court? Never.:rolleyes:

Ummmm. How many times have you heard the entire Duke stadium cursing on national television together? How many times have you heard it directed at a single player?

Sorry, you just picked a losing argument.

devildownunder
03-03-2010, 11:59 PM
Maryland played great but for some reason I don't see them making the ACC tournament final. I don't see them sustaining such a high level of energy for three straight days.

Also, I don't think we have any chance at a 1 seed right now. It's not unreasonable that we could even slip to a 3. The ACC tournament field is not just going to roll over for us.

If we beat UNC and win the ACC tourney, we'll almost certainly snag a 1 seed.

Devilsfan
03-04-2010, 12:00 AM
Since it seems approved to broadcast by ESPN and the ACC nor the NCAA seems to object to it I guess I'll just teach a version of the "Maryland Chant" to my Sunday school kids.

roywhite
03-04-2010, 12:00 AM
I'll say for the last time, if you are arguing that it's unsafe, fine.

That's not my complaint.

I trust you'll tear into the Crazies the next time they storm the court, then, if safety is your concern.

Your defense of storming the court has been stubborn and unconvincing.

Celebrations and "attitude" can be done without storming the court.

Very rare for the Crazies to storm the court. Do you watch the games?

Starter
03-04-2010, 12:00 AM
I haven't read this thread, just finished watching the game on DVR. So pardon me if I say things that have been said.

Props to Maryland for a tough, tough win on their home court. I didn't think Duke played particularly badly, I really just think Maryland made the shots and the plays that they had to make. I was ecstatic to see a very clutch shot for Dawkins go down, and for Zoubek to continue his run of very tough play -- tougher than usual even, after his hand injury. And what can I say about Nolan Smith? He was fantastic and I'm so proud of him.

Here is the one criticism I can muster, and it's been building for a while: Scheyer must -- and I mean MUST -- stop shooting three-point jump shots off a dribble to his left. He does it all the time, and it virtually never goes in. I mean, it's a lower-percentage shot because you have to move the ball from your non-dominant hand to your shooting hand in one motion, as opposed to dribbling right, where the ball never leaves his shooting hand. It sounds simple, it sounds stupid, but I see it again and again. I'd suggest virtually any other shot Duke can get out of a possession is higher-percentage than that. I'm praying that's something at some point the coaching staff can identify and address (and it would help clear up one of the few weaknesses in an otherwise excellent skill set).

Duke Mom
03-04-2010, 12:01 AM
Even though we lost, there should still be a "Man of the Match" poll - am I just not seeing it? This was such a tough game, and Duke made a great come-back from behind at a very challenging venue. My vote goes to Nolan. Hope our guys get some rest, they really worked hard tonight.

JamminJoe
03-04-2010, 12:04 AM
JamminJoe...welcome to the board.

If you find an equivalence between Duke fans and Maryland fans, you're going to have a hard time here.

Haha. I'm not making that argument - I live in Maryland so I know that Maryland fans are the worst. But I do remember being at Duke in the 80's and my mother calling me after several games saying that the F word was very clear on TV. Also, Dukies have rushed the court many times and the UNC and NCAA bonfires were certainly not safe in many ways.

I laugh at Maryland fans when they riot after a loss, but I can see why they would be celebrating after this one.

pamtar
03-04-2010, 12:04 AM
espn.com's front page is trash

Not total trash (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=4961547)

calltheobvious
03-04-2010, 12:04 AM
Not for Duke. These aren't neutral site games when over 3/4 of the stadium is rooting for you to lose. Basically, Duke has to win 6 road games to win the title

This road business is overblown. The team we saw tonight bears no resemblance to the ones that were dominated by 36 and 40 minutes against Wisky and Georgetown, respectively.

What Maryland needed to win this game tonight against a Duke team not playing nearly its best was remarkable. Full credit to them.

The two toughest tournament environments Duke has played in over the last fifteen years were Rupp in '98 and '02. Those venues were Bic lighters compared to the inferno our boys played in tonight. If they lose, it won't be because they wilted under the pressure of boos or f-bombs.

Devilsfan
03-04-2010, 12:05 AM
The 14 point deficit was hard to overcome. It we shoot well in the second half we still win regardless of the hostle enviorment and bias refs.

jipops
03-04-2010, 12:05 AM
I didn't.

I pointed to Jon's poor play down the stretch as an odd negative and later pointed out that it was somewhat in line with his play over the course of the game. I know you are itching to argue with somebody who is blaming the loss entirely on Jon, but I'm not the guy you are looking for. I saw a straw man a few pages back if you want to take him on.

Whoa, just discussing the game here. Please don't read more into it. I'm not itching myself into a rash here. Besides, you said Jon "choked". That is what I felt like responding to.

Duvall
03-04-2010, 12:05 AM
Haha. I'm not making that argument - I live in Maryland so I know that Maryland fans are the worst. But I do remember being at Duke in the 80's and my mother calling me after several games saying that the F word was very clear on TV.

It's not the 80's anymore. We haven't seen that kind of mindless hostility from a Cameron crowd in decades.

Andre Buckner Fan
03-04-2010, 12:06 AM
I'll say for the last time, if you are arguing that it's unsafe, fine.

That's not my complaint.

I trust you'll tear into the Crazies the next time they storm the court, then, if safety is your concern.

Devil Down Under, I get your point.

As a former Cameron Crazy when we won the National Championship, I cheered till I was hoarse and tented till I was sick, but I absolutely cannot stand how snobby Duke fans could be about the other teams. If I was them and they were us, I'd want to rush the court.

But it should be a safety issue and disallowed in any game. Especially when it is extremely obvious to everyone what is going to happen with five minutes to go and students all standing around. There was plenty of time for stadium officials to notice and respond.

OldSchool
03-04-2010, 12:06 AM
As to rushing the court, I think two simple protocols would make it significantly safer.

1. Do not allow the players to intermix with the crowd. When students rush the court, if the players do not mix with them, generally they just jump up and down on the floor centered around center court.

But with the players in there, students may try to hoist them on their shoulders or pile on to them or jump over other students to reach out to the players. That makes the situation much more dangerous in my view.

2. Have security personnel form a human barrier between the benches (and the lines of players and coaches shaking hands) and the crowd out on the court. The students can jump up and down all they want on the court, and the two teams can shake hands unmolested and go to the locker rooms.

What makes me more nervous is the pile-ons, even in the absence of fans rushing the court. In situations in which a team all piles on one guy who just made a game-winning shot, I'm surprised there aren't more injuries from that.

Lulu
03-04-2010, 12:07 AM
I actually felt the over and back was the correct call - Jon was the last to hit it before it went over the half court line.

? You have to have possession. We never had possession after the missed shot. It was truly blatant.

Yes. I think officiating affected the outcome. It didn't make it impossible for Duke to win; games are chaotic, but between the point differential and emotional toll, yeah, it made a difference that could have been the difference in the game.

Look, I'll be happy if we just agree that those were astonishingly bad calls. No one knows what might have happened... and Duke wasn't perfect.

Rudy
03-04-2010, 12:08 AM
I actually felt the over and back was the correct call - Jon was the last to hit it before it went over the half court line. Even if they had over-turned that call, so what. The key to this win was Maryland making plays at the end.

No, the call was clearly wrong. The ball came off the rim and no one controlled it before Jon corralled it in the back court. You have to have control of it in the front court before it's a violation. Otherwise you're right, it didn't determine the game. As a coach taught me long ago, a ref call doesn't determine a game--you had 39 other minutes to take the result out out of the refs' hands.

Duke Mom
03-04-2010, 12:10 AM
Love that Kenny Powers!

Andre Buckner Fan
03-04-2010, 12:10 AM
Haha. I'm not making that argument - I live in Maryland so I know that Maryland fans are the worst. But I do remember being at Duke in the 80's and my mother calling me after several games saying that the F word was very clear on TV. Also, Dukies have rushed the court many times and the UNC and NCAA bonfires were certainly not safe in many ways.

I laugh at Maryland fans when they riot after a loss, but I can see why they would be celebrating after this one.

I used to live in Maryland. I have lots of friends who are Terp fans.

That said, students tend to do whatever students can get away with. As a Cameron Crazy we were easily as foul mouthed as any Terp fan, but there was not an atmosphere where we could get away with it, much less chant it continuously.

The lackadaisical attitude by the athletics department at the University of Maryland is inexcusable and habitual.

Kfanarmy
03-04-2010, 12:11 AM
I actually felt the over and back was the correct call - Jon was the last to hit it before it went over the half court line. Even if they had over-turned that call, so what.... I thought that once an opposing player tipped it the offensive player had to regain possession before he could be called for over and back. Clearly Jon had not regained possession before the ball went over. Now the ref may have thought the MD player didn't touch it, if that were the case, I could say "OK," but he can't have thought Jon regained possession. and the travel call was simply a purposeful travesty...one of the other officials should have immediately recognized the bad call and overruled. the two calls back-to-back definitely changed the momentum of the game for several minutes. (By purposeful I mean they didn't want to recognize the mistake.)

Devilsfan
03-04-2010, 12:12 AM
Just a reflection of the total DC area where anything goes if you're the majority, imho. Too bad the Maryland administration sanctions such behavior.

jipops
03-04-2010, 12:13 AM
No, the call was clearly wrong. The ball came off the rim and no one controlled it before Jon corralled it in the back court. You have to have control of it in the front court before it's a violation. Otherwise you're right, it didn't determine the game. As a coach taught me long ago, a ref call doesn't determine a game--you had 39 other minutes to take the result out out of the refs' hands.

My bad, I thought he had control. Oh well, the refs missed one, I guess I did too.:D

If we had hit a few shots during the crucial stretch early in the 2nd and if Vasquez's circus shot had rimmed out, this discussion probably wouldn't be taking place.

BlueintheFace
03-04-2010, 12:15 AM
Nolan's Twitter:


Maryland fans congrats.. Leave my family alone walking to their car! Please and thanks! You don't know who you messing with! Malones!!

JamminJoe
03-04-2010, 12:15 AM
I used to live in Maryland. I have lots of friends who are Terp fans.

That said, students tend to do whatever students can get away with. As a Cameron Crazy we were easily as foul mouthed as any Terp fan, but there was not an atmosphere where we could get away with it, much less chant it continuously.

The lackadaisical attitude by the athletics department at the University of Maryland is inexcusable and habitual.

Yes - I definitely agree with this. The fan bases who have copied the Crazies have not been in CIS, so they don't realize that the Crazies do the mean stuff in a tongue in cheek manner. The hatred with which the Twerps cheer can be pretty scary.

buzz
03-04-2010, 12:15 AM
Great basketball game. Both teams making tough plays back-and-forth down the stretch. Just a matter of who was going to make the game-turning plays. Props to Maryland for a tough win. Actually, for Duke to even be in this game at the end was impressive, because for long stretches, the Terps were unconscious tonight. The only shame is that the zebras were too. The fans deserve a rubber-match in the ACC final.

Neals384
03-04-2010, 12:16 AM
No, the call was clearly wrong. The ball came off the rim and no one controlled it before Jon corralled it in the back court. You have to have control of it in the front court before it's a violation. Otherwise you're right, it didn't determine the game. As a coach taught me long ago, a ref call doesn't determine a game--you had 39 other minutes to take the result out out of the refs' hands.

Agree. Here's the rule -

Section 12. Ball in Back Court
Art. 1. A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in his or her back court
(with any part of his or her body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball
came from the front court while the player’s team was in team control and
the player or a teammate caused the ball to go into the back court.

And:

Rebounding
a. Definition. A rebound is an attempt by any player to secure possession
of the ball after a try for goal. There is no player or team control
on a rebound.

So, this was a rebound, several players touched the ball without gaining control...so there can be no back court violation.

devildownunder
03-04-2010, 12:16 AM
Lose to UNC and it's yet another Duke decline late in the season. Beat Carolina soundly and this loss is more or less irrelevant, and no more troubling than Kansas or Kentucky losing to Oklahoma State or South Carolina. We'll see.

First, we're not losing to UNC.

But, on the off chance I'm wrong, I think it would be really unfair to lump this season in with some others. No matter what happens, this team did not scorch the first part of the season and then start performing noticably worse. In fact, I'd say efficiency has got better, on the whole, as the season has gone on -- despite a setback or two. The feel in some years past has been more of a downward progression after a hot start. That hasn't been the case this year and even losing to UNC wouldn't give that feel (especially since it's not going to happen!:D)

Devilsfan
03-04-2010, 12:17 AM
"Copying" by a less intelligent student body can be dangerous.

Duke Mom
03-04-2010, 12:17 AM
Why is there no MOTM thread?
start one

Duvall
03-04-2010, 12:19 AM
Nolan's Twitter:

Why does the league tolerate their persistent jackassery?

devildownunder
03-04-2010, 12:19 AM
Your defense of storming the court has been stubborn and unconvincing.

Celebrations and "attitude" can be done without storming the court.

Very rare for the Crazies to storm the court. Do you watch the games?

Have you even bothered to read what I said before dismissing it?

tele
03-04-2010, 12:20 AM
If you were a bought-and-paid-for official, you would choose to try to influence the outcome in which of the following ways?

1) By giving a preponderance of the 50/50-ish calls to one side.

or

2) By kicking the **** out of two plays that the entire world will know immediately were missed.

Thanks.

Oh that's an easy one, you'd do both right? Do you think Coach K was just asking that ref what his plans for dinner were during that timeout? And the ref made that traveling call on Scheyer right after that was a coincidence?
Vasquez was taking two steps on his drives, which is only legal in the NBA.

If pointing out bad calls makes me a poor fan, so be it.

mike88
03-04-2010, 12:23 AM
Here is the one criticism I can muster, and it's been building for a while: Scheyer must -- and I mean MUST -- stop shooting three-point jump shots off a dribble to his left. He does it all the time, and it virtually never goes in. I mean, it's a lower-percentage shot because you have to move the ball from your non-dominant hand to your shooting hand in one motion, as opposed to dribbling right, where the ball never leaves his shooting hand. It sounds simple, it sounds stupid, but I see it again and again. I'd suggest virtually any other shot Duke can get out of a possession is higher-percentage than that. I'm praying that's something at some point the coaching staff can identify and address (and it would help clear up one of the few weaknesses in an otherwise excellent skill set).

It is not always true that the shot moving to the left is harder for right-handed shooters- many players shoot better that way- it actually makes squaring up a little easier. I would figure that Jon knows when a shot feels comfortable, and doesn't regularly put it up if he does not feel comfortable.

jipops
03-04-2010, 12:24 AM
First, we're not losing to UNC.

But, on the off chance I'm wrong, I think it would be really unfair to lump this season in with some others. No matter what happens, this team did not scorch the first part of the season and then start performing noticably worse. In fact, I'd say efficiency has got better, on the whole, as the season has gone on -- despite a setback or two. The feel in some years past has been more of a downward progression after a hot start. That hasn't been the case this year and even losing to UNC wouldn't give that feel (especially since it's not going to happen!:D)

And to look at it another way, if we had played at Maryland earlier this season we probably would have been smoked right out of the gym. Instead we clawed back after finding ourselves in a hole and kept this one tight all the way to the end. This was arguably the toughest road game we've played this year. Sure a loss is a loss and it sucks. But substantial improvement has to be recognized after this game.

jdj4duke
03-04-2010, 12:25 AM
This loss must be the least anxiety-inducing defeats I can remember. Weird shots went in for them, lots of rattlers for us. It always seems we miss an inordinate number of shots around the rim. I don't recall a single dunk or emphatic put-back tonight.

The travel and back-court were important; take one score from either of those possessions and it is likely a different score at the 2 minute mark. And clearly K thought the calls were bogus. He had his most sincere red-face on after both of those. One call does not a game make, but two or three in a row, when every possession is critical, might.

Still though, the team had the chance to fold early and did just the opposite. MD did what lesser teams have to do in order to beat better ones, especially at home- get a couple breaks in a tight game, have a couple of prayers fall in, and make some one and ones while the opponent misses theirs.
With all of that, essentially a one possession game until the last half minute or so. I cannot imagine K will be too hard on the team. I expect hair-on-fire output Saturday.

And as others point out, why the UMD tolerates the junk spewed by the student section is beyond understanding. That Williams has never countered it diminishes his overall performance. You would think he as well as someone in the MD admin would be at least somewhat embarrassed over it, but I guess you would be thinking wrongly. It's hard to be rivals with someone whose actions are so antithetical to what happens in Cameron, and with whom there is so much uncommon ground.

devildownunder
03-04-2010, 12:27 AM
Devil Down Under, I get your point.

As a former Cameron Crazy when we won the National Championship, I cheered till I was hoarse and tented till I was sick, but I absolutely cannot stand how snobby Duke fans could be about the other teams. If I was them and they were us, I'd want to rush the court.

But it should be a safety issue and disallowed in any game. Especially when it is extremely obvious to everyone what is going to happen with five minutes to go and students all standing around. There was plenty of time for stadium officials to notice and respond.

ABF, thanks for at least hearing what I'm trying to say. If rushing the floor is dangerous -- and there's a link here w/how dangerous it can be -- then maybe the ncaa/schools/arenas should seriously look at banning it. I've got no problem w/anyone who advocates banning the practice ON THOSE GROUNDS. So much of what you see spoken against it has nothing to do with that, however, it is all about sour grapes and snobbery.

CameronDuke
03-04-2010, 12:31 AM
According to his Twitter account, it looks like some of Maryland's fans messed with Nolan Smith's family members as they headed for their cars after the game. I can't speculate what happened, other than Smith saying "Leave my family alone as they go to their cars..." or something along those lines. They are a classless bunch.

devildownunder
03-04-2010, 12:33 AM
And to look at it another way, if we had played at Maryland earlier this season we probably would have been smoked right out of the gym. Instead we clawed back after finding ourselves in a hole and kept this one tight all the way to the end. This was arguably the toughest road game we've played this year. Sure a loss is a loss and it sucks. But substantial improvement has to be recognized after this game.

That's a really good point. Reading your post made me think back to 2002-03 (a season in which I spent the early part of the campaign complaining loudly about the lack of true road games on the non-conf schedule). That year, we played our first true road game at College Park. We came in nationally ranked with a great record -- and got smoked. Had we played that same game in the first week of March that year, we would've been much better. Roles had been better defined by then, etc.

This team has gone forward, not backwards. This was just a tough loss against a good team playing at home.

Kfanarmy
03-04-2010, 12:35 AM
seems like there have been a lot of them against this team on road courts doesn't it. Still in 10 road games, opponents have shot 46%...that aint all circus shots. IMO an inordinate amount of it is teams getting really good shots for stretches in games, often in the first 10 minutes or so. Duke has rebounded from slow starts pretty well, but they seem really tight starting off. Is there a way to fix this? Is it really about the opportunies created for the opponents by missing so many early shots? or does it just take quite a while for the D shake off the atmosphere?

strawbs
03-04-2010, 12:40 AM
For the most part I am really against storming the court, mainly because of safety for both players and fans. To me the only acceptable time to storm the court is if a small school knocks off a big one (not to pile on UNC but the CofC upset this year is a perfect example). When it's a game like tonight and maryland winning really isn't an upset it bothers me when people storm the court.
Honestly i wouldn't have cared about the maryland fans storming tonight if it would have played out like this:
Vazquez was fouled, K pulls his players off the court and over to near his bench. Then greivis misses the last free throw on purpose and touches the ball to get the clock started again, that way none of the duke players would have to be worried about getting trampled by the people storming the court.

It always bothers me anytime anytime duke loses a road game, because it results in a court storming 99% of the time. I would think by now K would have learned to throw the end of the bench guys in the game for those last 5 seconds to inbound the ball, that way you don't have to worry about one of the key guys getting trampled. Not that i would ever want any player on any team to get hurt in a court storming, but i'd much rather it be Todd Zafirovski, instead of kyle, nolan, or jon.

jv001
03-04-2010, 12:42 AM
For the most part I am really against storming the court, mainly because of safety for both players and fans. To me the only acceptable time to storm the court is if a small school knocks off a big one (not to pile on UNC but the CofC upset this year is a perfect example). When it's a game like tonight and maryland winning really isn't an upset it bothers me when people storm the court.
Honestly i wouldn't have cared about the maryland fans storming tonight if it would have played out like this:
Vazquez was fouled, K pulls his players off the court and over to near his bench. Then greivis misses the last free throw on purpose and touches the ball to get the clock started again, that way none of the duke players would have to be worried about getting trampled by the people storming the court.

It always bothers me anytime anytime duke loses a road game, because it results in a court storming 99% of the time. I would think by now K would have learned to throw the end of the bench guys in the game for those last 5 seconds to inbound the ball, that way you don't have to worry about one of the key guys getting trampled. Not that i would ever want any player on any team to get hurt in a court storming, but i'd much rather it be Todd Zafirovski, instead of kyle, nolan, or jon.

Why not just stop it and no one gets hurt? Go Duke!

strawbs
03-04-2010, 12:45 AM
Why not just stop it and no one gets hurt? Go Duke!

hey, that works for me too! :)

-bdbd
03-04-2010, 12:56 AM
Can't wait to get our hands on that hapless bunch of heels....

Watch out.


:d

devildownunder
03-04-2010, 12:58 AM
This road business is overblown. The team we saw tonight bears no resemblance to the ones that were dominated by 36 and 40 minutes against Wisky and Georgetown, respectively.

What Maryland needed to win this game tonight against a Duke team not playing nearly its best was remarkable. Full credit to them.

The two toughest tournament environments Duke has played in over the last fifteen years were Rupp in '98 and '02. Those venues were Bic lighters compared to the inferno our boys played in tonight. If they lose, it won't be because they wilted under the pressure of boos or f-bombs.


I don't think we played at Rupp in '98 -- although it sure felt like it down the stretch in that game. Ugh, up 17. Dang it!

DurhamMatt
03-04-2010, 01:19 AM
We were all worried about Maryland getting on fire early, scoring in transition, and the crowd getting jacked. All of which happened right away. I was proud of our guys to come back 14 down to bring it within 2 at the half. I thought Zoubek was awesome grabbing rebounds tonight (concerned I saw some of his old inside game creeping in, bringing the ball down and going up too strong at the basket) he could and should have made a few key shots. To start the second half, we hit a 3 and then proceed to go stagnent for I don't know how long. A trait we have all been accustomed to the past few years. That is where we could have taken this one because fortunately Maryland wasn't scoring either and still went on a 7-0 run. It was a great game, Greives made some crazy baskets that were destined to go in and Marylands role players were unstopable ( doesn't seem like this always happens to us?) Had a bad feeling when Lance had to come out with fouls and yes there were some home cooked calls, there always will be. How many backdoor cuts can mediocre guards take to the rim on us, sheesh. Duke, please stop with the 3 at the end of the game when you need, and have been succesful geting 2's all game, and also please stop driving into the lane with 4 defenders and 37 seconds left down 6 when you actually do need the 3. We plat 10 times I think we win 8, just dissapointed we let them write the script before we even played. On to UNC and an ACC tourney win and I think we still get the 1 seed.

JamminJoe
03-04-2010, 01:54 AM
This was Maryland's rivalry game, and it was for #1 in the conference.

Are you guys saying that if Duke was #22 in the country and just beat #4 UNC for #1 in the ACC on senior night, that the watered down Crazies would not gently populate the court?

Duvall
03-04-2010, 01:57 AM
This was Maryland's rivalry game, and it was for #1 in the conference.

Are you guys saying that if Duke was #22 in the country and just beat #4 UNC for #1 in the ACC on senior night, that the watered down Crazies would not gently populate the court?

Who knows? Who cares? It would still be self-indulgent, dangerous and wrong.

Students are idiots. The schools have to stop them from doing stupid things, and if the schools refuse to control them, then the league must make the schools take action. It worked in the SEC, and it will work here.

Greg_Newton
03-04-2010, 02:03 AM
1) this was a great game. As much as I hated watching it, it was a good battle between two good teams. Vasquez's dagger to make it 73-69 was an epic shot... falling diagonally away from the basket, 10 feet away, he scoops the ball with one hand and throws it at the rim with enough touch to rattle it in? Are you kidding me?? I hate to say it, but...

2) I really like Vasquez. I'm sorry, but I can't help but have a soft spot for 4-year guys who just love playing college basketball and representing their schools like Vasquez and Booker. I don't know if anyone caught his postgame interview with Ms. Andrews, but he basically gave huge praise to Duke, K, Jon, Kyle and Nolan and said that words couldn't describe the experience of playing them on senior night. Props for realizing what he's been blessed with, and enjoying it all while he can. (...Demarcus? You listening?)

3) Besides the first ~13 minutes, our guys have nothing to hang their heads about. Kyle played like a man from start to finish, Jon and Nolan made some big-time clutch plays in the second half, Z was a man among boys for stretches, the Plumlees gave us some cajones early when we didn't have any, and Andre nailed a huge (at the time) 3. It would have been great to finish this off (and I'd feel better if it was against a top 3/4-seed caliber team), but we showed a lot to come back and take the reins for a while.

4) But oh, those first few minutes... someone touched on this in another thread, but I want to see us man up and get cocky. We need to know that we're better, smarter, and more prepared than the other five guys on the floor. In a situation like tonight, we need to be staring them down and thinking "Your crowd can yell as much as they want, but you're going to have to beat us with the five guys on the court... and our five guys are better than your five guys". I hate to see us looking so deferential on the road - not moving with purpose, fumbling with the ball, waiting for them to make the first punch - we didn't dictate a single thing tonight, not the tempo, physicality, flow on either end... nothing. Props to our guys for coming back strong, but you can't let that happen against elite teams.

I believe this team is capable of developing this attitude, but it's getting to now-or-never time...

5) Once again, Maryland fans continue to ensure their place as a non-rival. I despise UNC, but respect them. I do not respect Maryland whatsoever.

calltheobvious
03-04-2010, 02:05 AM
I don't think we played at Rupp in '98 -- although it sure felt like it down the stretch in that game. Ugh, up 17. Dang it!

I know, the disaster in St. Pete sticks out more in my mind, too, but we had to win two games during the first weekend to get there. They were at Rupp.;)

calltheobvious
03-04-2010, 02:11 AM
Oh that's an easy one, you'd do both right? Do you think Coach K was just asking that ref what his plans for dinner were during that timeout? And the ref made that traveling call on Scheyer right after that was a coincidence?
Vasquez was taking two steps on his drives, which is only legal in the NBA.

If pointing out bad calls makes me a poor fan, so be it.

Regarding your first paragraph, I don't have the energy to find a pancake bunny.

As to the end of your post, I've got no problem with fans or anyone else pointing out bad calls. What I have a problem with is chalking bad calls up to anything more than human error. If you (not you) have evidence of an official being of questionable character, by all means bring it. But it had best be more than a couple of bad calls in one game.

Give Maryland's crowd credit for both of the huge misses in the second half. In a quiet gym, both plays are (no-)called correctly.

SoCalDukeFan
03-04-2010, 02:35 AM
Vasquez spent some time on the bench and probably had more in his tank than Jon or Nolan at the end of the game.

I think Jon is getting tired. He takes on a lot. He is a great college basketball player.

Loss does not bother me too much. Hostile arena, against a good team who played very well and seem to get some breaks and who made some tough shots.

I think we need offense from someone other than the Big 3.

SoCal

Bob Green
03-04-2010, 05:04 AM
From my perspective, we lost the game during the first six minutes of the second half. After making a great run, at the end of the first half, to cut Maryland's 14 point lead to 40-38 at the break, we came out and immediately took the lead on a 3-pointer to go up 41-40, and continued to outplay the Terrapins for the first six minutes of the second half. The problem is we failed to build on the lead and with 14 minutes left in the contest it was all tied up at 47-47. The game then see-sawed back and forth until it was all tied up 69-69 with two minutes to go in the game. Maryland outplayed us and won the game over those last two minutes, because we failed to deliver the knockout blow during the pivotal first six minutes of the second half.

It was a great game! I enjoyed watching it no matter how much the ending sucked. My hat is off to Greivis Vasquez and his teammates on a great win. GV is the ACC POY. Perhaps Gary Williams is the ACC COY.

Next play! Let's take it to the Heels and then dominate the ACCT.

Richard Berg
03-04-2010, 05:41 AM
Maryland outplayed us and won the game over those last two minutes, because we failed to deliver the knockout blow during the pivotal first six minutes of the second half.
I agree with this. We played tremendous M2M defense to open the 2nd half (building on some clever 1-2-2 to close out the 1st) and held them to just one field goal for a long stretch. Unfortunately we couldn't capitalize.

Eventually, of course, their transition offense reasserted itself, our off-the-ball defenders hedged a little too far for 2nd-half feet to catch up to cutters, and that was that. Even so, it was anyone's game with 90 seconds to play. Let some of GV's circus shots rattle out, give Jon a call or two, and we win despite everything.

Of course, it goes without saying that we probably win by 10-15+ if we'd simply contained them out of the gate. Live & learn, hopefully.

Lord Ash
03-04-2010, 07:05 AM
Amazed that, once again, the Terp fans show their class not only by showering the court with curses and, according to a Kentucky fan watching the game, by spitting in the face of a Duke player when they stormed the court, but also in the riots that followed... tear gas and riot shields and police horses, oh my!

Almost makes losing worth it just to get another fantastic example of why Maryland has the worst fans in sports.

oldnavy
03-04-2010, 07:15 AM
Yes, but when the entire arena is rooting against you vocally, the location is trivial. It's a road game.

Nope. The crowd has very little to do with it. Road games are an advantage for the home team because the home players are more comfortable with the pregame routine, do not have to travel which does cause at least some fatigue, they know the court better (thousands of more shots on the rims, lighting, etc..., and they are generally more pumped up to defend their home court.
Even if a crowd is vocally behind one team at a neutral site, the true advantages for that team are not there. Our kids are way to well coached to let simple crowd noise interfer with their game.

Someone mentioned that Zoubs looked tired at the end of the game, well all I have to say to that is thank goodness! That means he is finally not getting the silly, horrible fouls called on him and he stays on the court longer. He will play himself into game shape over the next few games.

Saratoga2
03-04-2010, 07:30 AM
Maryland came out fired up, knowing they had to rebound, push the balldown court, shoot well and play defense for 40 minutes. They really did just that and deserved to win.

On the other hand, Duke came out sort of bland, taking the open corner threes and missing, thus allowing Maryland to push the ball and get decent shots. Kind of reminded me of the Georgetown game for a while. It wasn't until coach K went to zone, that we slowed Maryland's offense and got on a run to make the game close. I am not sure if the zone was to protect our players in foul trouble or to disrupt Maryland.

Clearly the message was to increase intensity rebounding, which we did with Zoubek, Thomas and Singler all playing extremely hard.

The second half was a back and forth affair, with no team getting more than a 5 point advantage and both teams making nice shots and then missing some. I noted Gary rested Vasquez for a significant period and than might have helped his energy at the end.

At the end, both Smith and Scheyer executed like they had gotten very tired with Smith missing short and Scheyer missing shots he should make. Maryland took advantage of the breaks they got and once into foul shooting, they had us.

I didn't notice others mention it, but the large pinwheels used to distract our shooters might actually be effective since we shot a worse percentage than normal. There are many ways that fans use to distract foul shooters and the Maryland approach just might be the most effective legal way I have seen.


In general, I think this game is still a positive for Duke with Zoubek and Thomas still performing well. Singler, Scheyer and Smith all played well for much of the game and Dawkins has obviously earned the trust of coach K enough to put him into critical situations. He delivered quite well on defense and offense. Both Mason and Miles also continue to show improvement and of course they will be the standbys mext year. Good game by Duke in a tourney type environment. Looking forward to the UNC game.

davekay1971
03-04-2010, 07:44 AM
As much as I hate losing to Maryland, sometimes you just have to say "good game."

Maryland played great. We played well, but they played great.

Next game. Time to start a 10 game winning streak.

weezie
03-04-2010, 07:52 AM
Amazed that, once again, the Terp fans show their class not only by showering the court with curses and, according to a Kentucky fan watching the game, by spitting in the face of a Duke player when they stormed the court, but also in the riots that followed... tear gas and riot shields and police horses, oh my!

Almost makes losing worth it just to get another fantastic example of why Maryland has the worst fans in sports.

Wow. Yet the sports media says nothing.
MD=soup school.

OK UVA, we set them up for you. Now shock the talking heads and get Jon ACC POY.

mgtr
03-04-2010, 07:53 AM
Well, no matter how many more games we get to play this season, not one of them will be on the other team's court!

whereinthehellami
03-04-2010, 08:29 AM
The Twerp fans are as bad as the Mountaineer fans. Their thuggery comes from the deep down knowledge that they don't measure up.

Spret42
03-04-2010, 08:39 AM
The Twerp fans are as bad as the Mountaineer fans. Their thuggery comes from the deep down knowledge that they don't measure up.

There is some real truth to that.

It is a two way street.

Some Duke fan's snobbery comes down to the belief that everyone else
is somehow beneath them.

Socials and Greasers.

OldPhiKap
03-04-2010, 09:01 AM
As much as I hate losing to Maryland, sometimes you just have to say "good game."

Maryland played great. We played well, but they played great.

Next game. Time to start a 10 game winning streak.

Yup. That's as concise as you can get.

Give credit where credit is due, then let's go whip butt.

DukieBoy
03-04-2010, 09:02 AM
I said this in the offense beat us thread, but I'll say it here.

Did you really think Vasquez was losing on his senior night? I mean, that last shot of his was just....I don't even know. I'm still speechless about it.

I can't stand him, but man can he play. He's a talented kid and Maryland wanted it so much more than us.

Let's play like that Saturday and show UNC a true beatdown

superdave
03-04-2010, 09:12 AM
Amazed that, once again, the Terp fans show their class not only by showering the court with curses and, according to a Kentucky fan watching the game, by spitting in the face of a Duke player when they stormed the court, but also in the riots that followed... tear gas and riot shields and police horses, oh my!

Almost makes losing worth it just to get another fantastic example of why Maryland has the worst fans in sports.

I drove up to College Park with some friends from Arlington in 2002 after MD had beaten Indiana. It was pandemonium. I got hit by a glass bottle while standing safely to the side. Then police decided to disperse the crowd with tear gas rather than actually just start asking people to leave and putting out fires. So they created a stampede.

On the way back to the car, some kid walking by himself got the snot beaten out of him by 4 guys. The 4 actually took on the cops for about 5 minutes after they broke it up. Pretty amazing to see. The funny thing is, that's how they think they are supposed to act. No creativity so shout the F word. No traditions so light trees on fire until the cops tear gas you. I guess I should not call it amazing as much as amusing.

Glad they wont be in the NIT (again) this year.

CDu
03-04-2010, 09:20 AM
Maryland wanted to run and run and run. We wanted to slow the game down. Well, with our poor shooting, Maryland was able to push the tempo. I don't think it's any coincidence that Maryland's offensive success came at the same time as our offensive struggles. When we missed, they pushed the tempo, which is where they're most effective.

I really felt that we were going to win the game when we got that 4-point lead early in the second half. We had completely turned the game around. We were winning the battle on the boards, and we had shut down their offense. But then we just struggled to score only 1 point over the next 5.5 minutes. In that time, Maryland took a slight lead back. If we'd managed to maintain or extend that lead slightly during that stretch, I think we win.

There were some glaringly bad calls made against us, but I felt the officiating overall was not disadvantageous to us. They let a lot go that we took advantage of as well - it's just that a few calls were pretty badly wrong, and I think people can cling to those. It's unfortunate that they missed so badly on the "travel" and the "over and back" calls.

I thought we showed great toughness to overcome the 14 point deficit early. The team didn't give up, and fought back to get a lead in the second half. We even led as late as 4:30 in the game. But in the last 8 minutes of the game, we got only two stops. It's hard to win when you let the other team score on 12 of 14 possessions to end the game. We were in position to win late - our defense just didn't hold up down the stretch (credit to Maryland's offense as well, as I don't think our defense was that bad - they made good plays/shots as well).

uncwdevil
03-04-2010, 09:27 AM
1) It would have been great to finish this off (and I'd feel better if it was against a top 3/4-seed caliber team), but we showed a lot to come back and take the reins for a while.

Maryland may very well be a 4 seed after all. Their RPI is 20 or better and their worst losses (W&M, Cincy) happened during the first half of the season. If they beat UVa and make it to the ACC final, a 4 seed is a very real possibility.

mcdukie
03-04-2010, 09:27 AM
I agree that the game really was lost in the first 6 minutes. I think MD was just so pumped up and hit some lucky shots that gave them the cushion they needed in the end. Look at it, Mosley was hitting 3's, Hayes left hand shots he couldn't hit any other time. I thought we did an excellent job of weathering the storm and I knew we would make a run. We shouldn't over analyze this game. MD played a great game on senior night. My question to the board is do you think MD can play any better? I don't know if they can play that well on a neutral court. Also, do you think we deserve a 1 seed? I don't know if we do but I don't know if K-State deserves it any more than we do. We need to get ready for the Holes, they are playing better. A win and everything is right in the Duke world.

UrinalCake
03-04-2010, 09:38 AM
From my perspective, we lost the game during the first six minutes of the second half.

One particular sequence stands out to me - we got like four offensive rebounds in one possession, and the announcers were killing Maryland for their inability to rebound, but at the same time we failed to actually put the ball in the basket. The play ended when Lance went over the back, likely a move of frustration. I think it takes a lot out of you to play defense so hard for a long stretch and yet not be able to extend the lead.

CDu
03-04-2010, 09:40 AM
I agree that the game really was lost in the first 6 minutes. I think MD was just so pumped up and hit some lucky shots that gave them the cushion they needed in the end. Look at it, Mosley was hitting 3's, Hayes left hand shots he couldn't hit any other time. I thought we did an excellent job of weathering the storm and I knew we would make a run. We shouldn't over analyze this game. MD played a great game on senior night. My question to the board is do you think MD can play any better? I don't know if they can play that well on a neutral court. Also, do you think we deserve a 1 seed? I don't know if we do but I don't know if K-State deserves it any more than we do. We need to get ready for the Holes, they are playing better. A win and everything is right in the Duke world.

Mosley is a 44% 3-pt shooter. Him hitting threes isn't some shocking event. He doesn't take that many, but when he does he often makes them.

I think there were lots of keys to the game. The first 9 minutes were obviously very bad for us getting down 21-10. But so were the last 8 minutes, when we got only two stops in 14 possessions and gave up 25 points. As were the 6 minutes from 17:10 to 11:10 where we went from a 4 point lead to being down 5, and scored only 3 points total.

mcdukie
03-04-2010, 09:57 AM
Mosley is a 44% 3-pt shooter. Him hitting threes isn't some shocking event. He doesn't take that many, but when he does he often makes them.
.

I see you like to study stats and are going away from my point which is MD played kind of over their heads in the first half. I watch MD play enough to know that teams can live with Mosley taking 3's. He sure didn't hit them in the second half when the game was a lot closer. Anyway, on to the Holes.

UrinalCake
03-04-2010, 10:01 AM
Maryland definitely played out of their minds, perhaps their best game of the year. But their fans would probably say that Scheyer hit some circus shots too (as did Vasquez). And Miles's three was a lot less likely to go in than Mosley's. So it works both ways I guess.

left_hook_lacey
03-04-2010, 10:02 AM
Oh, please. Storming the court is stupid, self-indulgent, dangerous and inane. It should be banned on every floor in the country, after every game.

Fans need to grow up and realize that it isn't about them.

Actually, it is all about the fans. If there were no ticket buying, jersey buying, $3 soda buying fans, there would be no more sports, at least sports as we know it. Pro or college.

That being said, I think storming the court is only acceptable in very, very select situations. When Ohio State stormed the court Tuesday after beating an unranked conference opponent that they regulary beat, my stomach turned. I realize they clinched the regular season title, but so what? It's not their first regular season title, and I'm sure it won't be their last. It's not like they beat an undefeated team to do it either. Not necessary in that situation. Maryland, I can sort of see it. We had beaten them what, last 5 or 6 games in a row. We were highly ranked, while they had barely scratched the surface of the top 25. But if all things were the same such as league implications, rankings etc., but it were any other team other than Duke, I think they don't storm the court then. I think they did it just to piss us off.

Fogive me it this is a ramble, I'm still hungover.

Kedsy
03-04-2010, 10:10 AM
I don't think we played at Rupp in '98 -- although it sure felt like it down the stretch in that game. Ugh, up 17. Dang it!

We did play in Rupp in the 1980 tournament, against Kentucky. And we won.

CDu
03-04-2010, 10:11 AM
I see you like to study stats and are going away from my point which is MD played kind of over their heads in the first half. I watch MD play enough to know that teams can live with Mosley taking 3's. He sure didn't hit them in the second half when the game was a lot closer. Anyway, on to the Holes.

I don't know that I would say that Maryland was playing above their heads. They are a very good offensive team that shoots well when they get open looks. They go on hot stretches very often - this stretch just happened to start the game. They played very much like they often play at home - very hot for stretches when they get the tempo up, and cold for some stretches.

As for Mosley, he only took one three in the second half of the game, so I'm not sure how that suggests him hitting a three was playing above his head. The guy is a capable 3-point shooter, even if he doesn't take a lot of attempts. It's not like, say, Miles Plumlee hitting an 18 foot shot and the first 3-point shot of his career.

hq2
03-04-2010, 10:56 AM
Hate to say it, but they outplayed in this one. Our shooting and/or shot selection early on was not very good. Down the stretch, they took and hit better shots than us. This game again shows the danger of over-reliance on the big three. It would be nice if

1. Andre could start finding the range again.

2. The big three could dish more when they drive (notice how often
Singler gets snuffed? They know to go right up and challenge him
every time.)

Not too much from either MP1 (3 pointer aside) or MP2 in this game, where they should have done more against a shorter team.

uncwdevil
03-04-2010, 11:09 AM
We had 14 offensive rebounds, but only 6 second chance points.

It seems reasonable to think that we would normally get about 1 second chance point for each offensive rebound.

Those 8 additional points would have been helpful...

devildownunder
03-04-2010, 11:26 AM
I know, the disaster in St. Pete sticks out more in my mind, too, but we had to win two games during the first weekend to get there. They were at Rupp.;)

And so we did! Thanks, I'll try to fixate on those two games, rather than ANY of the tournament appearances we've played in St. Petersburg.

Can we just blow up Tropicana Field (empty, of course), or whatever they're calling it these days? Is it good for anything?

theAlaskanBear
03-04-2010, 11:31 AM
I just want to echo some of the points here. While that was a tough, tough loss that I am just now recovering from, I'm not going to hang my head.

Maryland was so totally geeked up for that environment, as soon as they hit that first shot....the scoop shot after cutting into the lane...I knew it was going to be a long night. They had unbelievable confidence, like they were just going to murder Duke. It's really hard to beat a team playing that well.

But Duke almost did. Despite our poor start we almost came back on won. I really can't believe how we opened that game. First of all, TERRIBLE SHOT SELECTION (at the start). Initiating the offense with the three, and all those weak jump shots to start the game...we played very tight. At the end I felt we tightened up again after Maryland regained the lead, because there was way too much perimeter dribbling. Screen, dribble, pass to guard, another screen, dribble, pass to guard, shoot an outside shot. Sometimes I really wish Duke would run some more set plays.

Positives: Andre Dawkins. Zoubek (despite the dislocated finger) came back in and for a stretch completely dominated the boards. I agree that he got tired toward the end. Miles Plumlee hit both an 18 foot jumper and a three. I couldn't believe it.

Oh yeah, it did look like Duke was gassed at the end. Playing in such a hostile environment, in a comeback, claw your way in this game...I don't blame them.

CrazieDUMB
03-04-2010, 11:36 AM
If Grevis doesn't make it in the NBA, at least he'll have some MTV time as a replacement for The Situation.

sagegrouse
03-04-2010, 11:42 AM
Sorry, if I have only read a few of the posts above. Masochism is not my thing.

1. Duke lost the game in the first 8:00, when we trailed by 13. We had to dig out of a deep hole. As a result, our run at the 10:00 mark just got us close and our huge run at the end of the first half and the beginning of the second half didn't put the game away.

2. If we make one of those 3pt shots between the 2:00 and 1:00 marks of the 2nd period, and I think we win the game.

3. I thought Zoubs, Kyle and even Jon were forcing awkward inside shots. Kudos to Maryland, whose defense was intense, but we had better options.

Thanks for reading (if you have gotten this far)--

sagegrouse

moonpie23
03-04-2010, 12:02 PM
i think we lost cause jay bilas was calling the game.....why am i starting to cringe when i see his face now??


ugly..


bottom line......MD made shots, Duke missed shots..




on to sat night.......

CDu
03-04-2010, 12:13 PM
Another huge play in the game was with less than 2 minutes to go in a tie game, we forced a miss by Vasquez. But Williams was able to get the offensive rebound over Zoubek and scored to give them the final lead. If Zoubek can get that rebound (and I'm not blaming Zoubek in any way - just a tough break for us and a good play by Williams), we have the ball with the chance to take the lead with around a minute or so left. Instead, we're down 2, and Singler and Smith miss their shots at 3. Maryland finally gets it back and Vasquez scores.

There were lots of keys to the game, but on one of the rare missed shots from Maryland in the last 8 minutes, we just didn't capitalize.

NSDukeFan
03-04-2010, 12:19 PM
Another huge play in the game was with less than 2 minutes to go in a tie game, we forced a miss by Vasquez. But Williams was able to get the offensive rebound over Zoubek and scored to give them the final lead. If Zoubek can get that rebound (and I'm not blaming Zoubek in any way - just a tough break for us and a good play by Williams), we have the ball with the chance to take the lead with around a minute or so left. Instead, we're down 2, and Singler and Smith miss their shots at 3. Maryland finally gets it back and Vasquez scores.

There were lots of keys to the game, but on one of the rare missed shots from Maryland in the last 8 minutes, we just didn't capitalize.

I thought Maryland played a great game, the seniors were excellent, but what about Jordan Williams. That has to be one of the better performances by a freshman this year. Congratulations to Maryland on a great Senior night performance in a very loud gym. I hope Duke's seniors can duplicate that kind of performance this weekend.

Philadukie
03-04-2010, 01:20 PM
Nope. The crowd has very little to do with it. Road games are an advantage for the home team because the home players are more comfortable with the pregame routine, do not have to travel which does cause at least some fatigue, they know the court better (thousands of more shots on the rims, lighting, etc..., and they are generally more pumped up to defend their home court.
Even if a crowd is vocally behind one team at a neutral site, the true advantages for that team are not there. Our kids are way to well coached to let simple crowd noise interfer with their game.

C'mon, you don't really believe this, do you?

This argument is easily dismantled by simply reimagining last night's game at the Comcast Center full of Crazies instead of Terp fans. You think because Maryland players were "more confortable with the pregame routine," did not have to travel, and know the court better, the results would've been the same? The crowd had A LOT to do with it.

I've played played basketball and have watched a lot of it (on TV and in person) for over 20 years. Momentum, and the plays that create and are created by it, has much to do with the outcome of a game. A home team's crowd can help direct and strengthen that momentum and ultimately the outcome. Why do you think Coach K so often incites the Crazies?

Case in point: Vasquez was feeding off the fans last night, and they were feeding off of him. Do you think his mental focus and emotional intensity would have been the same if the Comcast Center were full of Duke fans? No way.

You are correct that the road team can be mature enough to handle the home crowd. But that's not the point. It's the mental and emotional lift to the home team that matters.

I've watched many tournament games in which Duke's opponent benefitted from this emotional lift from the crowd, creating, essentially, a "road game" atmosphere for Duke.

dukestheheat
03-04-2010, 01:24 PM
Well, I gotta jump on in; you know, this thread wouldn't be complete without the comments of dth, and I just know all of you are burning to find out what I have to say! (I am still a jester, after all these years removed as a Crazie).

I thought it was a great game, and I'm not surprised that we lost it. Maryland was on, their crowd was electric, and that's the way it goes. My take here is that this Duke team fought back to even the game and take the lead, and I'm proud that they were able to do so. That points to the maturity of the team, and its resilience. Many teams would fold and lose by a large margin, there, then, but not Duke, and that's the silver lining to the loss.

We will emerge stronger as a result of this one.

Onward to Carolina, whom we are prepared to CRUSH.

dth.

allenmurray
03-04-2010, 01:47 PM
I'll say for the last time, if you are arguing that it's unsafe, fine.

That's not my complaint.

I trust you'll tear into the Crazies the next time they storm the court, then, if safety is your concern.

Why the attitude? Prior to this post, this is the total of my contribution to this thread:

http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2005/janfeb/features/kay.html

Until, of course, someone is paralyzed from the neck down. It is dangerous and stupid. Just ask Joe Kay.

In addition, the crazies storming the court is a very rare thing. Very rare. In addition, I'm not sure that pointing out that people have been very seriously injured is "tearing into" anyone.

78Devil
03-04-2010, 01:49 PM
I'm glad everyone's so philosophical. I'm not. If we were a No. 1-type seed as pages of speculation on this BB have maintained, we should have won. Period. We have a lousy record on the road this year, and while tournament games are not road games, they aren't home games either. This was a real disapointment.

Its back to reality, and my original goal not to flame out before the Sweet Sixteen.

NSDukeFan
03-04-2010, 01:50 PM
C'mon, you don't really believe this, do you?

This argument is easily dismantled by simply reimagining last night's game at the Comcast Center full of Crazies instead of Terp fans. You think because Maryland players were "more confortable with the pregame routine," did not have to travel, and know the court better, the results would've been the same? The crowd had A LOT to do with it.

I've played played basketball and have watched a lot of it (on TV and in person) for over 20 years. Momentum, and the plays that create and are created by it, has much to do with the outcome of a game. A home team's crowd can help direct and strengthen that momentum and ultimately the outcome. Why do you think Coach K so often incites the Crazies?

Case in point: Vasquez was feeding off the fans last night, and they were feeding off of him. Do you think his mental focus and emotional intensity would have been the same if the Comcast Center were full of Duke fans? No way.

You are correct that the road team can be mature enough to handle the home crowd. But that's not the point. It's the mental and emotional lift to the home team that matters.

I've watched many tournament games in which Duke's opponent benefitted from this emotional lift from the crowd, creating, essentially, a "road game" atmosphere for Duke.

I think there are a lot of players who get very fired up by an opponents' crowd as well as their own, see Redick, JJ. I think it can help the emotion of both teams. The familiarity of a routine, gym and rims, and lack of travel may be more of a factor than you think. I am not discounting the value of fans, but they are not the only factor in a home court advantage.

RoyalBlue08
03-04-2010, 01:53 PM
I'm glad everyone's so philosophical. I'm not. If we were a No. 1-type seed as pages of speculation on this BB have maintained, we should have won. Period. We have a lousy record on the road this year, and while tournament games are not road games, they aren't home games either. This was a real disapointment.

Its back to reality, and my original goal not to flame out before the Sweet Sixteen.

Every potential #1 seed has had losses much worse than @Maryland on senior night. By your criteria, there would be no #1 seeds.

calltheobvious
03-04-2010, 01:57 PM
I'm glad everyone's so philosophical. I'm not. If we were a No. 1-type seed as pages of speculation on this BB have maintained, we should have won. Period. [snip, because there was a period]

So I guess Kansas and Kentucky greatly diminished themselves in your eyes last weekend.

Richard Berg
03-04-2010, 01:58 PM
i think we lost cause jay bilas was calling the game
FWIW, I thought Jay's in game calls were excellent, even by his own standards. I'm usually several steps ahead of the announcers, yelling at them to keep up (or provide the one stat that would obviously be crucial at that moment), but I honestly learned some things from Jay last night.


C'mon, you don't really believe this, do you?
It's both, obviously. Routine & travel fatigue matter. Momentum matters. Both weight against the opponent team so it's kind of a moot point. (except WRT the factors whose affect can also be regressed against tourney battles...I'll leave that to better statisticians than I)


Another huge play in the game was with less than 2 minutes to go in a tie game, we forced a miss by Vasquez. But Williams was able to get the offensive rebound over Zoubek and scored to give them the final lead. If Zoubek can get that rebound (and I'm not blaming Zoubek in any way - just a tough break for us and a good play by Williams), we have the ball with the chance to take the lead with around a minute or so left. Instead, we're down 2, and Singler and Smith miss their shots at 3. Maryland finally gets it back and Vasquez scores.
Yeah I was gonna mention that in another thread. Heartbreaking moment; the first time since the early double-digit lead that I truly felt we'd lose.

Richard Berg
03-04-2010, 01:59 PM
I'm glad everyone's so philosophical. I'm not. If we were a No. 1-type seed as pages of speculation on this BB have maintained, we should have won. Period. We have a lousy record on the road this year, and while tournament games are not road games, they aren't home games either. This was a real disapointment.

Its back to reality, and my original goal not to flame out before the Sweet Sixteen.
Feel free to start a thread titled "it's over." Seemed to work last time our starting center injured himself in a late-season loss @UMD.

MChambers
03-04-2010, 02:09 PM
Feel free to start a thread titled "it's over." Seemed to work last time our starting center injured himself in a late-season loss @UMD.

it was against Maryland, but at Duke.

Either way, I feel pretty optimistic.

uncwdevil
03-04-2010, 02:17 PM
Scott Van Pelt just spoke about the game last night. He was behind their bench near Juan Dixon.

He was very impressed the way Duke "absorbed" Maryland's best punch in the first half and doesn't think many teams in the country could have bounced back like that. He said Duke could have easily won the game with a few different bounces at the end.

His opinion is that Maryland's extreme vitriol towards Duke is the result of Duke not really respecting Maryland, chanting "not our rival", etc. He compared it to a big brother/little brother type thing. He at least sounded a little embarrased about the fans' language. He said he did get a chance to talk to Scheyer's dad after the game for a little while and hoped that all of his visits to College Park weren't terrible experiences.

Kedsy
03-04-2010, 03:05 PM
I'm glad everyone's so philosophical. I'm not. If we were a No. 1-type seed as pages of speculation on this BB have maintained, we should have won. Period. We have a lousy record on the road this year, and while tournament games are not road games, they aren't home games either. This was a real disapointment.

Its back to reality, and my original goal not to flame out before the Sweet Sixteen.

Well, we have the best conference road record in the ACC, so while it could be better I think "lousy" may be overstating the case just a teensy bit.

My question to you is, are all "No. 1-type seed[s]" undefeated? Period? Are they going to leave those spots blank in the bracket, then? As others have pointed out, Kansas, Kentucky, Syracuse, and every other team in the country have worse losses on their resume than losing to a nationally ranked, second place team in a major conference, in their gym on senior night.

David
03-04-2010, 03:35 PM
Scott Van Pelt just spoke about the game last night...He said he did get a chance to talk to Scheyer's dad after the game for a little while and hoped that all of his visits to College Park weren't terrible experiences.

I am certain the previous two visits weren't "terrible experiences" (we won 78-67 last yr and 93-84 the yr before that).

Interesting that the players' parents still attend the game in College Park after all the 'stuff' MD fans have done over the years. They also showed Zoubs' dad (Jor-EL) on the telecast. I wonder if Duke advises the parents to skip this one (or at least bring body armor and a helmet).