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View Full Version : Is Jon Henson very quietly.....



ClosetHurleyFan
03-03-2010, 06:57 AM
...becoming one of the most promising big men in the ACC heading into next season?

All you rationale Duke fans, set aside any judgement on Roy's decision to run him at the 4 recently (as opposed to the wisdom of running him at the 3 earlier on).

In the last 6 games, he has played an average of 25 minutes at the 4 spot in ACC play. And yes, at 195 pounds absolutely soaking wet in the rain, this bean pole of a player is averaging 11 points, 10 rebounds and 3.75 blocks a game. And he is still utterly clueless at times offensively.

If Ed Davis stays, could a Davis/Henson frontcourt be one of the best in the country next year? Welcome your thoughts.....as a Carolina fan going through a horrible season, it was nice seeing a kid like Henson flash a million dollar smile against Wake as they finally started winning some games....

jv001
03-03-2010, 07:10 AM
I have watched unc play more this year than the last 5 years combined. I guess it's been because how badly they have played. In the last few games I have been surprised by just how good a shot blocker henson has become. He was definetly playing out of position at the 3. He is a good defensive player and like you say, he's not so good on offense except for his offensive rebounding. If I were an opposing coach, I would make sure he was guarded so that he could not go to his left. I have yet to see him finish going to his right. I have a question about his height. Just how tall is he? Standing next to graves, he looked to be about 6 inches taller. That would make him 6'10" or 6'11", correct? He sure is long. I hope he does not have another good game left in him as he's playing about as good as davis was. Go Duke!

roywhite
03-03-2010, 07:12 AM
I guess you meant John Henson. Our senior leader Jon Scheyer likes his name.

He's an interesting player, but I'm still a skeptic

1. He doesn't really have a position; too thin and weak to be a post player, doesn't shoot well from outside or handle the ball well
2. Success against Miami without Collins for much of the game was not a good measuring stick
3. Henson does have a startling ability to come from a good distance away and block shots
4. Some players find it very difficult to add weight and strength; Henson absolutely needs to do that

So, he has some talent (remember this is a Top 5 recruit) but, no, I don't see him as a great college player unless he gets significantly stronger.

davekay1971
03-03-2010, 07:12 AM
A frontcourt of Henson, Davis, and Zeller would be really, really imposing. At this point, the three questions would be:

1) Can Henson put on some bulk. He's doing very well, but 20 pounds of muscle would make him even more effective.

2) Will Davis stay? And if he does, will he care enough to maximize his potential?

3) Can Zeller stay healthy?

If the answers to all those questions is yes, Carolina will have a frontcourt that no one will want to face.

ClosetHurleyFan
03-03-2010, 07:17 AM
I guess you meant John Henson. Our senior leader Jon Scheyer likes his name.

He's an interesting player, but I'm still a skeptic

1. He doesn't really have a position; too thin and weak to be a post player, doesn't shoot well from outside or handle the ball well
2. Success against Miami without Collins for much of the game was not a good measuring stick
3. Henson does have a startling ability to come from a good distance away and block shots
4. Some players find it very difficult to add weight and strength; Henson absolutely needs to do that

So, he has some talent (remember this is a Top 5 recruit) but, no, I don't see him as a great college player unless he gets significantly stronger.

Thanks for thoughts....but that is the thing about him, he is too thin, too weak.....yet in six games he is managing 10 boards per.....and getting 11 points despite having no polished offensive moves. That in and of itself is pretty remarkable.

roywhite
03-03-2010, 07:20 AM
A frontcourt of Henson, Davis, and Zeller would be really, really imposing. At this point, the three questions would be:

1) Can Henson put on some bulk. He's doing very well, but 20 pounds of muscle would make him even more effective.

2) Will Davis stay? And if he does, will he care enough to maximize his potential?

3) Can Zeller stay healthy?

If the answers to all those questions is yes, Carolina will have a frontcourt that no one will want to face.

The three of them would make a good rotation, but I don't think they would (often) play at the same time; need a small forward and 2 of the bigs; no doubt young Prince Harry will be the small forward. With some experience, yes, that would be a formidable frontcourt. I believe UNC's major challenge is putting together a really solid backcourt next year.

JasonEvans
03-03-2010, 07:25 AM
If Ed Davis stays, could a Davis/Henson frontcourt be one of the best in the country next year?

No question that a Davis/Henson/Zeller front court to go with the youngsters Carolina is bringing in on the perimeter woulod be extremely formidible.

But, lets be honest here, I think it is more likely that Henson turns pro than it is Davis stays in school.

Ed Davis is gone. He is not happy and has already seen his stock slip a bit (he was a top 3 lock and is now seen as a mid-late lottery pick). He will not be back and risk further slippage. Carolina already got one more year than they should have out of him considering he was a high lottery lock a year ago.

Your concern should really be that Henson's improved play have raised the odds that he will leave right now. Yes, he is absurdly raw, but all that potential you see is also seen by NBA scouts. Crazier things have happened.

--Jason "knowing that HWSNBN was coming for next year, Roy should have had Henson at the 4 all season and not ruined the first half of the year playing him at the 3" Evans

Matches
03-03-2010, 07:34 AM
Henson is very quietly playing his way back into the lottery IMO. And he has Ed Davis right there as an object lesson on why not to wait a year too long to go pro. Mock drafts had Henson in the lottery even before his recent burst. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he turns pro.

If he does come back, though, I agree he's poised for a big sophomore season.

CLT Devil
03-03-2010, 07:38 AM
I was thinking the same thing, Jason. UNC fans should hope that Henson isn't playing well enough as of late to garner attention from scouts. He still has very little offensive game; his hook shot consists of kinda throwing the ball toward the basket...with bad resuls sometimes. I think his rebounds are up because of his minutes and switch of position, as was mentioned here earlier.

As a Duke fan, I think he could be a terror down the road in a couple of years just because his body is so freakishly long. I doubt he will ever be as good as a Brandon Wright however. He is still very raw, and you could see how his stock was so high coming into college because with a body like that you can dominate on length alone.

I do think his shot blocking ability is pretty awesome,some due to his long arms and timing...although I have seen a couple of times where it looks like a basket inteference:o

Overall, I would love to see him be a one and done, doubt he will, and think he could reasonably improve his game but to be an elite big man he needs some muscle if he ever wants to bang with the Alabis, Lawals, Bookers and McFoulands of the ACC.

airowe
03-03-2010, 07:53 AM
He doesn't scare me one bit on offense and the refs will eventually catch onto his goaltending tendencies. He is a very quick leaper though and doesn't have far to go once he gets up to be in position to block a shot.

However, all that shotblocking prowess doesn't mean squat really when roy couldn't even play him for the last 6-7 minutes of a tight game last night because of his horrid ft shooting.

sivartrenrag
03-03-2010, 08:04 AM
He's very likeable, and for that reason alone he scares me. Any time I find myself happy on the inside when a 'hole performs well I get scared. It's an emotion I've never learned to handle properly.

sagegrouse
03-03-2010, 08:12 AM
Henson is very quietly playing his way back into the lottery IMO. And he has Ed Davis right there as an object lesson on why not to wait a year too long to go pro. Mock drafts had Henson in the lottery even before his recent burst. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he turns pro.

If he does come back, though, I agree he's poised for a big sophomore season.

I have two words of advice to John Henson regarding entering the NBA draft:

"Andray Blatche."

Blatche is on a really good run right now for the Wizards [see Wilbon's column linked on DBR]. He is, however, in his fifth year in the league. He was miserable for the first four. Now, Henson is not the head case that Andray was when he entered the league out of HS. But Andray, if anything, was taller and stronger then than Henson is now.

sagegrouse

superdave
03-03-2010, 08:24 AM
I thought Henson was supposed to be a guy with guard skills who just shot up 6 inches in a year? Whatever happened to that guy? He is a quick leaper though.

Best case scenario for him: intangibles guy like Teyshaun Prince.
Worst case scenario: Brandon Wright. All bill, no goods.

IBleedBlue
03-03-2010, 08:29 AM
I think -
1. Roy picked up a great talent/potential in Henson.
2. Roy did a horrible job judging henson's capability and position in his team earlier in the season.
3. henson stays for another year. He will be eaten alive by NBA power forwards (a.k.a Odom, Variejao, Rashard Lewis to name a few) if he went pro this year mainly because of his weight. Athleticism is not the only factor. He needs muscle, smartness on court and FT shooting.
4. Davis is about to close his college chapter in a month from now. He slipped in lottery pick from last year to this year. Unless UNC makes a deep run in the tourney next year (which is unlikely given their backcourt would be dependent on freshmen next year), he is prone to slip further which means more millions lost.

Billy Dat
03-03-2010, 09:03 AM
RE: Blatche

Agree with everything said, but in that first four years, he also made $6.2MM as a second round pick. As others have said, Henson projects, right now, as a first rounder where, even if he went as low as the last pick of the first round, he sign a $3MM contract. Plus, he'd score off the charts in the evaluations and would wow someone with his crazy hops and length (aka the most oft repeated word aside from 'upside' and 'motor' during draft time). I think he'd go higher, make more money, etc.

Please go, John and Ed, the NBA is waiting for you. Besides, UNC needs to make room for Mr. Barnes to operate down low.

BlueintheFace
03-03-2010, 09:13 AM
(yawn) It's March.

JohnGalt
03-03-2010, 09:17 AM
The kid actually looks 18/19 years old. Odds are he still has a lot of physical maturation ahead of him. We forget that most of the post (well, all) players we see in the college game look 4 or 5 years older than they actually are. If he eats, stays, and works hard for another couple years he could be an incredible talent, IMO.

All of this talk about the Carolina frontcourt is misleading though b/c the bulk of their troubles is in the backcourt. As you've all read, the big knock on Marshall and (and probably why he's not having a stellar senior year) is because he's just not THAT quick...relatively speaking of course. Roy relies on the Lawsons and the Feltons at the point in order to run his offense. When trying to use the Drews and (hopefully) Marshalls, it just doesn't quite work...

brlftz
03-03-2010, 09:22 AM
henson's the only guy on the unc roster that scares me. as closethurleyfan said, there's evidence that at least on the college level the skinny factor doesn't detract from his impact. when you're as quick, long, and athletic as he is, there's potential to dominate, and i'm really afraid that he'll figure it out while he's still around.

Duke79UNLV77
03-03-2010, 09:30 AM
Going into the year, it seemed like a good bet that both Davis and Henson would enter the draft this year. Davis's injury and Henson's inconsistent minutes and playing out of position before that injury may make it more likely that they return. They also may do so (as Lawson, Green, and Ellington did) just to p*ss me off.

If that happens, a lineup of Davis, Henson, Barnes, Bullock, and Drew/Marshall, with Zeller et al coming off the bench looks like a national top 10 team to me.

JohnGalt
03-03-2010, 09:49 AM
"If that happens, a lineup of Davis, Henson, Barnes, Bullock, and Drew/Marshall, with Zeller et al coming off the bench looks like a national top 10 team to me"


...kind of like how Drew, Ginyard, Henson, Thompson, and Davis with Zeller, the Wears, Strickland, et al looked like a top 5 national team before?

RepoMan
03-03-2010, 09:51 AM
Crazier things have happened.



See Randolph, Shavlik

Neals384
03-03-2010, 10:12 AM
Why are we talking about this today? Save it for the pre-game thread tomorrow. We have Twerps to take care of first.

chrisheery
03-03-2010, 11:14 AM
Few comments from the above discussion:

- I agree that Henson may be playing his way back into the lottery. He is proving to have more capabilities than originally billed.
- Physical strength may actually matter less in the NBA than in college because fouls are called with much more consistency and at a lower contact threshold in the NBA.
- How different is Henson than Kevin Garnett was at 18 or 19? You might disagree, but he doesn't seem that different to me, aside from intensity and will to win. I am sure many teams would love to have a kid with all the tools needed to be a superstar.
- Davis has to go. I would actually feel bad for him if he gets tricked into staying one more year.
- Henson can develop the ability to shoot in the NBA just as well or better than he would in college and get paid to do it.

chrisheery
03-03-2010, 11:17 AM
Why are we talking about this today? Save it for the pre-game thread tomorrow. We have Twerps to take care of first.

Is this type of post really helpful to anyone? If you don't like or aren't interested in a subject, you can choose not to click on it.

Imagine if 10 people were all standing around talking and Neals384 came ambling up, "Hey guys, really, don't talk about that, its not the right time . . ." Not sure that would be recieved well. Neither is his above comment.

Lord Ash
03-03-2010, 11:26 AM
As I have said from Day 1, John Henson will be a very good basketball player, even if it takes him a little while to "get it."

ChicagoCrazy84
03-03-2010, 12:38 PM
"If that happens, a lineup of Davis, Henson, Barnes, Bullock, and Drew/Marshall, with Zeller et al coming off the bench looks like a national top 10 team to me"


...kind of like how Drew, Ginyard, Henson, Thompson, and Davis with Zeller, the Wears, Strickland, et al looked like a top 5 national team before?


Lol, well done.

shoutingncu
03-03-2010, 01:56 PM
"If that happens, a lineup of Davis, Henson, Barnes, Bullock, and Drew/Marshall, with Zeller et al coming off the bench looks like a national top 10 team to me"


...kind of like how Drew, Ginyard, Henson, Thompson, and Davis with Zeller, the Wears, Strickland, et al looked like a top 5 national team before?


ChicagoCrazy beat me to replying to this, but that was my first thought, too. Not so much about the total team... I would love to have that team... but the idea that Davis, Henson and Zeller would be noticeably better (on paper, pre-season, pre-meltdown) than Thompson, Davis and Zeller. We'd be losing the one guy I'd hoped would be "back-to-the-basket" and replacing him with another finesse big.

Still, if Zeller can stop breaking things, he and Henson could be pretty fun to watch.

theAlaskanBear
03-03-2010, 02:29 PM
I think Henson's main problem, and the problem with many 6-10 6-11 big men is that they (or their coaches) have this fixation on being a "swing player" or a 3-man. I call it Jordan disease. Henson could be a dominant player, but he has to learn an effective inside game, and put on some muscle! I don't mean Dwight Howard muscle, but in the same vein....

...if Henson accepts that his future is down low, I see him as a Chris Bosh-type player. He has the length, and the hops, but doesn't have a great shot and is ineffective when out of the lane.

BoozerWasFouled
03-03-2010, 02:48 PM
Jordan disease, LeBron syndrome. All these bigs want to be a triple threat on the outside before they have even learned to become a single threat on the outside.

This plays out again and again in recruiting. People say "Roy is stupid for playing Henson at the 3." Actually the Henson family declared that John was a 3 and wouldn't allow him to be recruited any other way. Roy promised him to be a 3 because he had to. Now he has adjusted him to the 4 because he has effectively said to the Hensons, "John can be a 3 on the bench or a 4 in the game."

This is an object lesson in promising things to recruits before they have ever laced up their Jordans.

oldnavy
03-03-2010, 02:54 PM
This years front line was suppossed to be the best in the nation and we see how well that has worked out for the tarheels. All of these guys have the talent and the potential. The big question is will or can they play to that potential. They have not this year anyway. I have argued on other posts that the frontline of UNC this year was not even one of the better ones in the ACC. They play weak. They prefer to lay back and block shots on defense which is ok, but as in the Duke game it really did not impact the game, because it took them out of position to rebound. And none of them are bangers on the low post. As far as next year:

Davis is done.

Zeller is spastic. He is as likely to heave up a baseline 10 foot jump hook that hits the side of the backboard as he is to dribble off his foot. Forget passing, he doesn't like to pass and when he does sometimes it is actually to one of his own players.

Henson really needs to gain 50 pounds. That will not happen in one year, most likely after 2-3 years of intense workouts.

If Henson is projected as a top pick this year on potential he needs to go. The salary issue in the NBA looks "iffy" after this year, and I really do not see him improving that much in one more year at UNC.

Of course I am just guessing. They could all come together and be the best frontline of all time, but I doubt it.

Greg_Newton
03-03-2010, 03:16 PM
I tend to agree with the OP... Henson is the only player on the current roster that really scares me. I mean, the fact is, he doesn't need to put on massive amounts of weight to be effective in college, no matter how skinny he looks... he's doing pretty darn well right now.

What scares me is that he is, quite honestly, a terrible basketball player right now. He has zero skills, and moves like a newborn deer that hasn't gotten used to its body yet. He's just such a freakish physical specimen that his length and fast-twitchiness alone make him productive. I don't think he even has a "prototype" - Garnett was a better basketball player at his age, but IMO not as long and quick off the ground.

He's never going to be the kind of guy to carry a team offensively (neither is Zeller, IMO), but I would love to have him on our roster next season. Used properly, he can be a very unique asset to a team.

phaedrus
03-03-2010, 03:51 PM
Henson really needs to gain 50 pounds. That will not happen in one year, most likely after 2-3 years of intense workouts.


It took Kevin Garnett about 14 years to gain 30-35 pounds. 50 pounds in 2-3 years is not something that should even be attempted.

oldnavy
03-03-2010, 04:04 PM
It took Kevin Garnett about 14 years to gain 30-35 pounds. 50 pounds in 2-3 years is not something that should even be attempted.

I think that you could add 15-16 pounds a year safely if you hit the weights and ate healthy. Maybe not... point is he is skinny and it will take a while for him to get enough bulk to be a banger down low, if that is where he wants to play. If he wants to hang on the perimeter then he has a ton of work to do with ball handling and shooting. I am on record as being underwhelmed by UNC's bigs. They are most likely better than I want to give them credit for being, but also nowhere near as good as originally touted.

shoutingncu
03-03-2010, 04:11 PM
I am on record as being underwhelmed by UNC's bigs. They are most likely better than I want to give them credit for being, but also nowhere near as good as originally touted.

Here's an interesting thought... I believe there were folks who have praised UNC's frontline based on the actual numbers they are producing, which is to say, UNC's bigs compare favorably to the rest of the conference.

But watching them play... and I think you might agree with me, OldNavy... they simply don't pass the eye test.

I wonder how far a group like that can go. :)

slower
03-03-2010, 04:11 PM
If Henson is projected as a top pick this year on potential he needs to go. The salary issue in the NBA looks "iffy" after this year, and I really do not see him improving that much in one more year at UNC.

Remember that prior to this year, one of the popular scripts for the monkeys with keyboards and haircuts-in-suits was that Henson had the most upside of anybody in his class (this was much more prevalent before Wall exploded). If the "talent evaluators" still feel that way about him, it will definitely be a tough choice for him.

oldnavy
03-03-2010, 04:40 PM
Here's an interesting thought... I believe there were folks who have praised UNC's frontline based on the actual numbers they are producing, which is to say, UNC's bigs compare favorably to the rest of the conference.

But watching them play... and I think you might agree with me, OldNavy... they simply don't pass the eye test.

I wonder how far a group like that can go. :)

I do agree with you. They (Thompson and Davis) put up decent enough numbers, and in no way am I saying that they are bad players. They are not bad at all. My problem was with folks wanting to over exaggerate their impact and ability. Personally, I think some of it comes from them wearing the UNC logo. Like other players from the top programs, they tend to get a little more hype than they deserve. Another problem I think they suffer from is that they had Hansbrough last year to do most of the heavy lifting and draw most of the attention. They were able to benefit from that. They also had Ellington, Green and Lawson to open up things for them. Now with those players gone and the attention focused on them, they are not nearly as dominating as they were thought to be.
Really, I blame Roy for them not being better than they are. I just do not think that he is a good coach. I know that sounds preposterous given that he is in the HOF. But, I honestly believe that there isn’t a coach in the country that could have done a worse job with this team. My high school basketball coach would have won 20 games with this team and he was a bad high school coach. Roy gets the talent and that has taken him to great heights, but I honestly do not think he could “coach” a fat boy to eat a donut.

Newton_14
03-03-2010, 07:18 PM
I tend to agree with the OP... Henson is the only player on the current roster that really scares me. I mean, the fact is, he doesn't need to put on massive amounts of weight to be effective in college, no matter how skinny he looks... he's doing pretty darn well right now.

What scares me is that he is, quite honestly, a terrible basketball player right now. He has zero skills, and moves like a newborn deer that hasn't gotten used to its body yet. He's just such a freakish physical specimen that his length and fast-twitchiness alone make him productive. I don't think he even has a "prototype" - Garnett was a better basketball player at his age, but IMO not as long and quick off the ground.

He's never going to be the kind of guy to carry a team offensively (neither is Zeller, IMO), but I would love to have him on our roster next season. Used properly, he can be a very unique asset to a team.

I agree with most of your post here. The guy is just an odd dude. Forget how skinny he is. We all have seen big guys that were skinny, though he is far and away the skinniest of them all. But those arms! I seriously have never seen anyone with arms that long. It is just bizarre. And those arms is what make him the factor he currently is. He is also a quick leaper as you noted. Those two things combine to allow him to get to rebounds before anyone else has a chance to, and they allow him to block shots no one else could block. If he had normal length arms I don't think he could play in the post at all. But he has them and they are definitely a strength.


He has at times gotten away with goal-tending and while they looked like obvious goaltends on tv I think the refs are caught off guard every time.

So once he was finally moved to the right position, he has used 2 unique traits to grab 10 boards a game and get 10 points a game on mostly tip ins or put backs. His pet move is the lefty sky hook which I have seen him make exactly once and that was in the Wake game Saturday.
He is not a good perimeter shooter and likely never will be. But at this point I am not sure if he ends up being a great player, good player, or non factor. I have no clue mainly because I have never seen anyone like him. He does not look like a guy who can gain weight. I am not sure he could ever get to 225?

I tend to believe he can become a good to really good college player. As for the NBA, I have to wonder what position he would end up playing. I think he could potentially be a really good defender in the NBA but not sure he could ever be a good offensive player.

He is by far the most interesting/unique player I have ever seen and I am very curious to see what kind of player he ends up developing into.

Devil's Advocate
03-03-2010, 07:57 PM
But at this point I am not sure if he ends up being a great player, good player, or non factor. I have no clue mainly because I have never seen anyone like him. He does not look like a guy who can gain weight. I am not sure he could ever get to 225?

I can think of one guy - Casey Sanders. Obviously, not the same skill level, but similar build and athletic ability. As far as weight gain, you may be right. I think Casey still weighs 87 pounds.

theAlaskanBear
03-03-2010, 09:10 PM
I can think of one guy - Casey Sanders. Obviously, not the same skill level, but similar build and athletic ability. As far as weight gain, you may be right. I think Casey still weighs 87 pounds.

Did you see Dwight Howard in HS. See him now? No, Henson might not have the "frame" to put on a ton of weight, but ANYONE can gain 10-15 pounds with a little bit of off season weight training. In HS I put on 20 pounds my in one semester of PE. I'm not a big guy.

MChambers
03-08-2010, 06:03 AM
Jordan disease, LeBron syndrome. All these bigs want to be a triple threat on the outside before they have even learned to become a single threat on the outside.

This plays out again and again in recruiting. People say "Roy is stupid for playing Henson at the 3." Actually the Henson family declared that John was a 3 and wouldn't allow him to be recruited any other way. Roy promised him to be a 3 because he had to. Now he has adjusted him to the 4 because he has effectively said to the Hensons, "John can be a 3 on the bench or a 4 in the game."

This is an object lesson in promising things to recruits before they have ever laced up their Jordans.

With next year's (projected) roster, Henson won't get a minute at the "3". Don't know how his parents feel about that, but he is far better at the 4. Even made a left-handed hook Saturday (he is amphibious), but offset that with some horrible shots.

Cockabeau
03-08-2010, 06:42 AM
It took Kevin Garnett about 14 years to gain 30-35 pounds. 50 pounds in 2-3 years is not something that should even be attempted.


I doubt if Henson will gain 5 pounds a year if any. He is one of those who simply cannot gain like a normal human being.

I liken Jon Henson to a Loren Woods. Very effective on weakside defense. However physical play tends to limit the effectiveness to skinny,tall players.

UNC will have a huge gap at PG and center next year....And I think Leslie would be a fool not to transfer...imo

RelativeWays
03-08-2010, 07:06 AM
I think Henson will be back. If you listen to the rumblings, tweets and rumors, you start to get the impression that the UNC freshmen are already accepting that this team (going forward) is their team and I think Henson, Strickland and McDonald have the potential to be very good players next year. Zeller's development has been hampered by injuries, we know what thats like first hand. The Wears are complimentary bench players and solid ones at that. Davis is gone, Graves is inconsistent both in play and attitude, too many rumors around LDII to be sure what he's going to do, the seniors checked out weeks ago. If Barnes, Bullock and Marshall do live up to the hype, UNC could be a top 10 team.

Now before we gloat about how their paper championship lineup crumbled this year and could do the same next year, remember that we're about to undergo the same thing. We're about to lose one of our most consistent players ever and two role players that have provided a ton of intangibles that equaled wins. We're about to rely on the development of two talented but inconsistent brothers for our post play. We're hoping that a very talented freshman PG can bring something we've lacked since 2004. We're relying on the potential and namesake of an SG that hasn't played a minute in an official game. We're looking to a freshman and a JUCO player to bolster our 3/4 play. We're also hoping our soon to be senior NPOY candidate decides to stick around. Lots of ifs there, we could be national title contenders or complete busts, just like UNC this year.

CDu
03-08-2010, 07:24 AM
I think Henson will be back. If you listen to the rumblings, tweets and rumors, you start to get the impression that the UNC freshmen are already accepting that this team (going forward) is their team and I think Henson, Strickland and McDonald have the potential to be very good players next year. Zeller's development has been hampered by injuries, we know what thats like first hand. The Wears are complimentary bench players and solid ones at that. Davis is gone, Graves is inconsistent both in play and attitude, too many rumors around LDII to be sure what he's going to do, the seniors checked out weeks ago. If Barnes, Bullock and Marshall do live up to the hype, UNC could be a top 10 team.

Now before we gloat about how their paper championship lineup crumbled this year and could do the same next year, remember that we're about to undergo the same thing. We're about to lose one of our most consistent players ever and two role players that have provided a ton of intangibles that equaled wins. We're about to rely on the development of two talented but inconsistent brothers for our post play. We're hoping that a very talented freshman PG can bring something we've lacked since 2004. We're relying on the potential and namesake of an SG that hasn't played a minute in an official game. We're looking to a freshman and a JUCO player to bolster our 3/4 play. We're also hoping our soon to be senior NPOY candidate decides to stick around. Lots of ifs there, we could be national title contenders or complete busts, just like UNC this year.

I was mostly in agreement with you up until this last comment in bold. I don't see this team being 5-11 and .500 in the ACC next year. I agree that we could certainly be mediocre, but there are things we have that UNC didn't have that will prevent it:

1. An All-ACC senior guard who has proven he can be a go-to scorer.
2. Another guard who has averaged 20ppg in D-1 basketball and averaged 25ppg against ACC competition (albeit in only a couple of games).
3. A coach who has shown the ability to change his approach based on the needs of the team.
4. A coach who is committed to defense first.

I tend to think we'll be really really good next year (especially if Singler returns). But even if Irving doesn't pan out and the Plumlees/Kelly/Hairston don't provide us what we need inside, I think we'll still be better than this year's UNC team.

dukelifer
03-08-2010, 07:32 AM
I think Henson will be back. If you listen to the rumblings, tweets and rumors, you start to get the impression that the UNC freshmen are already accepting that this team (going forward) is their team and I think Henson, Strickland and McDonald have the potential to be very good players next year. Zeller's development has been hampered by injuries, we know what thats like first hand. The Wears are complimentary bench players and solid ones at that. Davis is gone, Graves is inconsistent both in play and attitude, too many rumors around LDII to be sure what he's going to do, the seniors checked out weeks ago. If Barnes, Bullock and Marshall do live up to the hype, UNC could be a top 10 team.

Now before we gloat about how their paper championship lineup crumbled this year and could do the same next year, remember that we're about to undergo the same thing. We're about to lose one of our most consistent players ever and two role players that have provided a ton of intangibles that equaled wins. We're about to rely on the development of two talented but inconsistent brothers for our post play. We're hoping that a very talented freshman PG can bring something we've lacked since 2004. We're relying on the potential and namesake of an SG that hasn't played a minute in an official game. We're looking to a freshman and a JUCO player to bolster our 3/4 play. We're also hoping our soon to be senior NPOY candidate decides to stick around. Lots of ifs there, we could be national title contenders or complete busts, just like UNC this year.

It is true that a basketball program can be is very fragile- see UCLA. Although Duke's guard play should be pretty strong next year as Curry has practiced all year with the team - and Nolan is a very possible 20 ppg scorer. Irving will give Duke a very interesting weapon. Duke's D is usually very solid year in and year out (unlike UNC) and K will be able to use pressure much more (given the guard depth) which will lead to a lot more breaks and easy buckets than this year. Guard play is critical to college hoops and Duke should be strong there- albeit a bit untested. I agree the front court is a big question mark- but we have seen glimpses. A lot will depend on summer development.

BD80
03-08-2010, 08:05 AM
... I agree the front court is a big question mark- but we have seen glimpses. A lot will depend on summer development.

We may have NINE games left this year. Fri and Sat, the MPs will get a lot of PT as K tries to save Z for Sun (even though he claims he does not do that). Our first round game next week should give the MPs a bunch more time. The remaining tourney games, they will get significant time against top flight competition.

Both Miles and Mason are at that point where a modicum of success could give them the confidence to play the way we hope they can play. Making mistakes is not the issue, it is the type of mistakes they are making. If they over commit to stop a drive it will still require an extra pass to beat the defense and we have a chance to rotate another defender to cover that pass. They are CLOSE to stepping into play the way Duke plays defense. They are missing fewer and fewer rotations.

I look forward to their growth over the remaining 8 or 9 games THIS season.

moonpie23
03-08-2010, 08:27 AM
after seeing henson's woofing at miles on the jam while being 26 down, i think he is quietly becoming my new target to put the TARHOLE-HATE-O-METER on starting this weekend.


have you folks noticed that there's no villian on this year's tarhole team? who do you REALLY hate? not anyone.....you hate them as a team, but there's no lightening rod.


maybe henson is up for the job.....he seemed to be the only one that was pissed saturday night.....the rest of them just seemed disgusted...and distracted...

Matches
03-08-2010, 08:34 AM
I was too busy laughing at Henson to hate him. Sooo impressive to throw down a dunk and cut the lead to 26... LOL.

theAlaskanBear
03-08-2010, 08:40 AM
after seeing henson's woofing at miles on the jam while being 26 down, i think he is quietly becoming my new target to put the TARHOLE-HATE-O-METER on starting this weekend.


have you folks noticed that there's no villian on this year's tarhole team? who do you REALLY hate? not anyone.....you hate them as a team, but there's no lightening rod.


maybe henson is up for the job.....he seemed to be the only one that was pissed saturday night.....the rest of them just seemed disgusted...and distracted...

The only villain is Roy Williams. Oh look, slant rhyme!

I haven't seen anyone get the Hansbrough treatment yet, and until I do, I'll reserve my hate. I think Barnes may be like that.

DukeVol
03-08-2010, 08:41 AM
I bumped into Henson at Brooks Brothers in the mall. He was getting measured for a custom dress shirt; the size- 15"/48".



Only kidding...sort of...

BlueDevilCorvette!
03-08-2010, 08:47 AM
The only villain is Roy Williams. Oh look, slant rhyme!

I haven't seen anyone get the Hansbrough treatment yet, and until I do, I'll reserve my hate. I think Barnes may be like that.

Well I kind of dislike Ginyard and D. Strickland simply because of the garbage they spewed from their mouths at the beginning of the season putting Duke down. As a freshmen, D. Strickland should have kept his mouth shut having not experience a Duke vs. UNC game yet. That's why every time he tried to guard Nolan or John, I loved it when they buried a jumper dead in his face...swish (i.e. especially John's pump fake three with Dexter flying across like a wounded duck)!

greybeard
03-08-2010, 09:14 AM
I think he stays. I also think that he is that good and perhaps more. UNC is a much better place to develop the "perhaps more" part than the NBA. Besides, I think that he has some things to accomplish before he leaves UNC. The two actually go hand-in-hand.

JimBD
03-08-2010, 09:20 AM
Best case scenario for him: intangibles guy like Teyshaun Prince.
Worst case scenario: Brandon Wright. All bill, no goods.

When I think of Hensen, Teyshaun Prince is the name that pops into my mind. I think Hensen has the potential to become that type of player in the NBA.

natedog4ever
03-08-2010, 10:51 AM
When I think of Hensen, Teyshaun Prince is the name that pops into my mind. I think Hensen has the potential to become that type of player in the NBA.

Aside from shot-blocking, Henson has years of work ahead of him to match Prince. His mechanics in every other facet of the game are worlds behind Prince.

They are similar only in body type - they can gain strength, but will never gain significant weight. Unfortunately, this doesn't bode well for Henson, who really looks to be more of an inside player than a perimeter guy, now and in the future.

CDu
03-08-2010, 12:15 PM
Aside from shot-blocking, Henson has years of work ahead of him to match Prince. His mechanics in every other facet of the game are worlds behind Prince.

They are similar only in body type - they can gain strength, but will never gain significant weight. Unfortunately, this doesn't bode well for Henson, who really looks to be more of an inside player than a perimeter guy, now and in the future.

Agreed. Henson doesn't have nearly the same type of offensive game that Prince had at UK. Offensively, Prince was closer to a Dunleavy type (guard-oriented skills in a really tall body) than Henson (big man game in a too-skinny body).

I'm not saying Henson can't eventually develop into a Prince type of player. But he's got a long way to go on the offensive end. And probably on the defensive end, where Prince was/is a little quicker and better able to stay with guards/wings. Henson's defense on wings has been mostly staying 3-4 feet away to avoid getting beaten off the dribble, and then just challenging/blocking jumpshots. He can't do that against wings at the next level.

greybeard
03-08-2010, 12:25 PM
It is true that a basketball program can be is very fragile- see UCLA. Although Duke's guard play should be pretty strong next year as Curry has practiced all year with the team - and Nolan is a very possible 20 ppg scorer. Irving will give Duke a very interesting weapon. Duke's D is usually very solid year in and year out (unlike UNC) and K will be able to use pressure much more (given the guard depth) which will lead to a lot more breaks and easy buckets than this year. Guard play is critical to college hoops and Duke should be strong there- albeit a bit untested. I agree the front court is a big question mark- but we have seen glimpses. A lot will depend on summer development.

The kid from Gonzaga in DC looks a lot to me like a bigger, stronger version of Amaker. He defends, rebounds, runs the break and the offense, and can score the ball. He might be a big surprise. Very, very tough, but nice. ;)

CDu
03-08-2010, 12:40 PM
The kid from Gonzaga in DC looks a lot to me like a bigger, stronger version of Amaker. He defends, rebounds, runs the break and the offense, and can score the ball. He might be a big surprise. Very, very tough, but nice. ;)

At the very least, Thornton will give us some added depth and versatility in practice. You can do a lot more when you have an ACC-quality PG on both the white and blue teams in practice. It certainly wouldn't hurt if he pushed Irving for starting time next year. There's no guarantee that a freshman PG can handle the load (of course, we'll also have Curry and Smith to ease the burden), so having two freshman PG makes it more likely we'll have someone turn out to be ready.

UrinalCake
03-08-2010, 12:50 PM
Someone mentioned Loren Woods... I think he's a good comparison, although Woods was something like 7'1. I recently watched the 2001 title game and had forgotten how dominant Woods was. I don't think Henson will ever be a power guy no matter how much he tries (believe it or not, the UNC trainers are probably aware that he's skinny, and are trying to do something about it) so he should learn to take advantage of his natural quickness and hops.

Regarding the trash talk after his dunk, if you're a UNC fan I think you can live with that. A lot of the guys on IC are ripping Roy for taking him out after doing that, since he was the only player on the team showing any kind of heart.

I see him testing the NBA waters but ultimately coming back, though the salary situation may change that.

CDu
03-08-2010, 12:55 PM
I see him testing the NBA waters but ultimately coming back, though the salary situation may change that.

I'd love it if he and Ed Davis go. I think Davis is gone for sure. I'd be a bit more surprised if Henson went, but certainly not shocked.

But losing those two guys would take away any defensive presence that team has inside. That'd be great.

juise
03-08-2010, 02:06 PM
Agreed. Henson doesn't have nearly the same type of offensive game that Prince had at UK. Offensively, Prince was closer to a Dunleavy type (guard-oriented skills in a really tall body) than Henson (big man game in a too-skinny body).

Thank you for reminding me of one of my favorite non-Duke Heel thrashings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EzOesUowIg) from my college years.

slower
03-08-2010, 03:28 PM
Aside from shot-blocking, Henson has years of work ahead of him to match Prince. His mechanics in every other facet of the game are worlds behind Prince.

They are similar only in body type - they can gain strength, but will never gain significant weight. Unfortunately, this doesn't bode well for Henson, who really looks to be more of an inside player than a perimeter guy, now and in the future.

Yeah, Henson reminds me of Prince. NOT Tayshaun Prince, just...Prince.

But Prince is a better singer.

LOVED Henson's "haircut" - it made him look like one of those pencils with the disc-shaped erasers on top.

m g
03-08-2010, 05:29 PM
With next year's (projected) roster, Henson won't get a minute at the "3". Don't know how his parents feel about that, but he is far better at the 4. Even made a left-handed hook Saturday (he is amphibious), but offset that with some horrible shots.

haha

borodevil16
03-08-2010, 05:48 PM
I would say Ginyard gets my vote for being the hated player on this tarhole team. All he talked about at the beginning of the season was how much he hated duke and how it was better to bet us than win a national championship. There was nothing sweeter than the sweep this year after his comments.