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Kewlswim
03-01-2010, 12:53 AM
Hi,

Some prognosticators believe we will be a #1 or #2 seed in the West. Would the pod-system mean that as a high seed we might still play in a Eastern United States arena that is designated as a Western pod?

For example: Let's say St. Mary's of Moraga is a #16 seed and they are put in the West. If they played us in the first round (if we were a #1 seed) we wouldn't be playing in San Jose (near Moraga) we would be playing in say, Greensboro, and it would be designated a Western pod or am I misunderstanding how the pod system works?

GO DUKE!

pfrduke
03-01-2010, 12:57 AM
Hi,

Some prognosticators believe we will be a #1 or #2 seed in the West. Would the pod-system mean that as a high seed we might still play in a Eastern United States arena that is designated as a Western pod?

For example: Let's say St. Mary's of Moraga is a #16 seed and they are put in the West. If they played us in the first round (if we were a #1 seed) we wouldn't be playing in San Jose (near Moraga) we would be playing in say, Greensboro, and it would be designated a Western pod or am I misunderstanding how the pod system works?

GO DUKE!

We will play in Jacksonville, almost certainly. Even if we are #1 or #2 in the West. We will not travel to San Jose. If we don't go to Jacksonville we will go to Buffalo.

And St. Mary's is not a 16 seed.

SCMatt33
03-01-2010, 01:30 AM
Hi,

Some prognosticators believe we will be a #1 or #2 seed in the West. Would the pod-system mean that as a high seed we might still play in a Eastern United States arena that is designated as a Western pod?

For example: Let's say St. Mary's of Moraga is a #16 seed and they are put in the West. If they played us in the first round (if we were a #1 seed) we wouldn't be playing in San Jose (near Moraga) we would be playing in say, Greensboro, and it would be designated a Western pod or am I misunderstanding how the pod system works?

GO DUKE!

The scenario you described is exactly why the pod system was created and a perfect example of its use. The committee felt that it would be better if teams that was no good reason to force more teams away from home by tying in a single location to a single regional, thus allowing all of the top seeds to stay as close to home as possible in the first weekend.

Kewlswim
03-01-2010, 01:48 PM
We will play in Jacksonville, almost certainly. Even if we are #1 or #2 in the West. We will not travel to San Jose. If we don't go to Jacksonville we will go to Buffalo.

And St. Mary's is not a 16 seed.

Hi,

I just picked it because I couldn't think of any other schools in the Bay Area to choose from for my example, no disrespect to the Gaels. I understand from chatter that Cal is going to the tournament "for sure." Are there any other Bay Area schools who are probably going to the tournament?

GO DUKE!

pfrduke
03-01-2010, 01:49 PM
Hi,

I just picked it because I couldn't think of any other schools in the Bay Area to choose from for my example, no disrespect to the Gaels. I understand from chatter that Cal is going to the tournament "for sure." Are there any other Bay Area schools who are probably going to the tournament?

GO DUKE!

Cal and St. Mary's are it. If you count Stockton as the bay area, Pacific is one of the favorites to win the Big West tourney.

pacificrounder
03-01-2010, 05:27 PM
As a Pacific grad, I can say that it certainly does not count as the Bay Area. However, I can say that we can smell that Big West title this year!!

hurleyfor3
03-01-2010, 05:39 PM
Any pod can be placed in any region and feed into any regional site.

The NCAA *does* try to protect the top 4 seeds so they are not playing in the home area of their first-round opponent, thus creating a home atmosphere for the worse team. So if we are shipped out to San Jose for whatever reason, the #16 won't be a Bay Area team. I think it's OK if *both* teams in a first-round matchup are a natural geographical fit. That's kind of the point of having pods, actually.

As a corollary it is very likely a top-4 seed will be play its first and second round games as close to home as possible. So we will probably end up in... Jacksonville!? Gawd, do this year's sites suck.

A-Tex Devil
03-01-2010, 06:24 PM
As a corollary it is very likely a top-4 seed will be play its first and second round games as close to home as possible. So we will probably end up in... Jacksonville!? Gawd, do this year's sites suck.

Agreed. We were going to do our annual March Madness trip to one of the first round sites this year, but they were all awful other than New Orleans -- but that is in the middle of Spring Break, so we dumped that idea.

The regional sites aren't much better.

devildownunder
03-01-2010, 06:41 PM
As a Pacific grad, I can say that it certainly does not count as the Bay Area. However, I can say that we can smell that Big West title this year!!

Hmmm, that's interesting. We covered it as part of the Bay Area when I was an intern at the Oakland newspaper out there.

Kewlswim
03-01-2010, 11:40 PM
Hi,

This only refers to the first and second round. Further rounds are determined (except for who is going to play).

For example, let's take the San Jose pod. Is it already determined that 1 will play 16 in the first round at that pod? What isn't known is who will be 1st and who will be 16th? Also, is it already determined that, for example, the San Jose pod will be part of the West region? OR Is all that has been determined so far is locations, what pod is linked to what region, seedings, etc. has yet to be determined?

Thanks!

GO DUKE!!

Jumbo
03-01-2010, 11:42 PM
No. They assign teams to pods, not seeds. And any pod can be part of any region.

Kewlswim
03-02-2010, 12:02 AM
Any pod can be placed in any region and feed into any regional site.

The NCAA *does* try to protect the top 4 seeds so they are not playing in the home area of their first-round opponent, thus creating a home atmosphere for the worse team. So if we are shipped out to San Jose for whatever reason, the #16 won't be a Bay Area team. I think it's OK if *both* teams in a first-round matchup are a natural geographical fit. That's kind of the point of having pods, actually.

As a corollary it is very likely a top-4 seed will be play its first and second round games as close to home as possible. So we will probably end up in... Jacksonville!? Gawd, do this year's sites suck.

Hi,

I think we might go to Buffalo. I'm not sure if that is better than Jacksonville or not. I've never been to either city.

GO DUKE!

Tappan Zee Devil
03-02-2010, 12:13 AM
Hi,

I think we might go to Buffalo. I'm not sure if that is better than Jacksonville or not. I've never been to either city.

GO DUKE!

Having grown up in upstate New York, I can guarantee you that there will be AT LEAST two feet of snow on the ground in Buffalo. Is that better than Jacksonville?
I don't know anything about the arena in Jacksonville, but at least it isn't the house of horror in St. Petersburg

brevity
03-02-2010, 01:33 AM
No. They assign teams to pods, not seeds. And any pod can be part of any region.

Exactly. So a pair of geographically close top seeds could play at the same site in that first weekend, even though they're nowhere near each other in the bracket.

One more thing is predetermined: the dates in which the games will be played. According to Wikipedia...

March 18 / 20
Dunkin' Donuts Center, Providence, Rhode Island (Hosts: Big East Conference and Providence College)
New Orleans Arena, New Orleans, Louisiana (Host: Tulane University)
Ford Center, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma (Host: Big 12 Conference)
HP Pavilion, San Jose, California (Host: San José State University)

March 19 / 21
HSBC Arena, Buffalo, New York (Hosts: Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference, Canisius College, and Niagara University)
Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena, Jacksonville, Florida (Host: Jacksonville University)
Bradley Center, Milwaukee, Wisconsin (Host: Marquette University)
Spokane Veterans Memorial Arena, Spokane, Washington (Host: Washington State University)

Each site hosts 2 pods, or a total of 8 teams. The 16 teams seeded 1-4 get some modicum of geographical protection. This year we have Syracuse, Villanova, West Virginia, Georgetown, Pittsburgh, and possibly Temple and Maryland trying to head their own pods at the Buffalo and Providence sites. 4 will get them; 3 will not. (Temple and Maryland might still play there, but not as the highest seed in their pod.)

Similarly, you would think that Ohio State, Purdue, Michigan State, Butler, and maybe Kentucky would want to go to Milwaukee. Only 2 of those teams will get their wish.

BYU, which does not play on Sundays, will likely go to Oklahoma City or San Jose unless it just tanks the rest of its season. If that happens, they'd be paired with a higher seed in Providence or New Orleans.

Olympic Fan
03-02-2010, 10:11 AM
Just to clarify further, a "pod" is a collection of four teams that always have the same seeding relationship to each other:

a No. 1 seed/a No. 8 seed/a No. 9 seed and a No. 16 seed
a No. 2 seed/a No. 7 seed/a No. 10 seed and a No. 15 seed
a No. 3 seed/a No. 6 seed/a No. 11 seed and No. 14 seed
a No. 4 seed/a No. 5 seed/a No. 12 seed and a No. 13 seed

The way the committee works, is that they seed the tournment 1-64 (well, actually 65, but 64 plays 65 for the right to become a 16 seed).

They then take the top No. 1 seed and put them in the most favorable first/second round location. That team takes the 8-9-16 in their bracket with them Technically, it wouldn't matter where the last three teams in the pod is from -- the siting is supposed to favor the top seed. Theoretically, they could have No. 1 Syracuse in Buffalo with No. 8 Cal, No. 9 Santa Clara and No. 16 Stanford -- three Bay area teams traveling all the way across country.

Realistically, they'd bend over backwards (and deviate from the true s-curve) to avoid that happening. They'd do their best to find 8-9-16 seeds that were a better geographical fit, as long as it doesn't unbalance the field. Still, the site is picked to favor the No. 1.

Anyway, once the first No. 1 is placed, the other three are also placed with their pods -- no problem if two No. 1s end up at the same site for the first/second round -- that's happened (UNC and Duke were No. 1s in 2005 and both started in Charlotte).

After the No. 1s are taken care of, they do the same for the No. 2s and their pods (2-7-10-15), then the 3s and their pods (3-6-11-14) and the 4s and their pods (4-5-12-13). Because of the seeding priority, a 4 might find itself (and its pod) squeezed out of the most favorable location.

Just an example (and I'm no way suggesting that this year's seeds will be anywhere near this), but if No. 1 Duke and No. 3 Florida State were sent to Jacksonville, then No. 4 Florida would be squeezed out and sent somewhere else.

It's not a perfect system, but it's a lot better than it was.

Neals384
03-02-2010, 10:44 AM
While we're asking questions...can a team play in the home arena? Can Syracuse be assigned to the Syracuse regional?

I've looked at Wikipedia and ncaa.org and don't see the answer there.

Neal

brevity
03-02-2010, 11:08 AM
While we're asking questions...can a team play in the home arena? Can Syracuse be assigned to the Syracuse regional?

No, they can't.

There's a formal definition of "home arena" that maybe someone else can provide, but it didn't bar the University of Pittsburgh from playing in nearby Mellon Arena in 2002.

Neals384
03-02-2010, 11:10 AM
No, they can't.

There's a formal definition of "home arena" that maybe someone else can provide, but it didn't bar the University of Pittsburgh from playing in nearby Mellon Arena in 2002.

Relieved, very relieved. Thank you.

hurleyfor3
03-02-2010, 11:17 AM
Wow, pods really confuse people.

You cannot play in an arena in which you have played more than three games during the year, excluding conference tournaments. Also, you cannot play at a site where you are the host school.

So Syracuse can't be in a regional that feeds into the Carrier Dome. Nor can Marquette play in Milwaukee because it is the host of that pod. However, Gonzaga CAN play in Spokane, because the arena isn't Gonzo's home gym, and the host is WSU, not Gonzo. In practice, Gonzo would get to play in Sokane only if it is a top-4 seed, because otherwise a potential second-round opponent (who would have a better seed) would end up with a virtual road game.

Joe Lunardi's FAQ has the full list of exclusions:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3812210

hurleyfor3
03-02-2010, 11:21 AM
No, they can't.

There's a formal definition of "home arena" that maybe someone else can provide, but it didn't bar the University of Pittsburgh from playing in nearby Mellon Arena in 2002.

I assume the host of that site was Duquesne, not Pitt. (Duquene is closer to the Civic Arena than Pitt is, of course.) For sites located in NC, the host is often a less prominent school such as Davidson or UNCG, or the ACC is named the host without a school.

The Pitt incident gave rise to the "top four seeds protected" rule, and will probably keep Gonzaga out of Spokane this year.

SCMatt33
03-02-2010, 11:46 AM
I assume the host of that site was Duquesne, not Pitt. (Duquene is closer to the Civic Arena than Pitt is, of course.) For sites located in NC, the host is often a less prominent school such as Davidson or UNCG, or the ACC is named the host without a school.

The Pitt incident gave rise to the "top four seeds protected" rule, and will probably keep Gonzaga out of Spokane this year.

The protected seed rule only applies to first round games, so unless Gonzaga drops down to a 12 or 13 seed, they will be allowed to play in Spokane. Where is becomes difficult to make it there is there would have to be a pod that allows their seed to play there. For example, if Gonzaga is a 6-seed, they would need to have a 3-seed pod placed in Spokane. A similar thing could happen between Duke and Florida this year. If Duke is a 1-seed and Florida is an 8 or 9, they will likely be placed in our pod.