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View Full Version : Surprise Team, Coach Of The Year, Newcomer Of The Year In The ACC



NYC Duke Fan
02-28-2010, 09:33 PM
Surprise team of the year has to be Maryland

Coach of the Year, easily Gary Williams

Newcomer of the Year, probably Derrick Favors because I cannot think of anyone else

Player of the Year, Jon Scheyer, but Vazquez will be a close second.

turnandburn55
02-28-2010, 09:34 PM
You don't think Ol' Roy is in the running? Shocking...

Highlander
02-28-2010, 09:37 PM
Surprise team of the year has to be Maryland

Coach of the Year, easily Gary Williams

Newcomer of the Year, probably Derrick Favors because I cannot think of anyone else

Player of the Year, Jon Scheyer, but Vazquez will be a close second.

If Duke sweeps Maryland and UNC to finish 14-2 and a full 2 games ahead of their nearest challenger, I have a hard time seeing how Coach K shouldn't be Coach of the Year. But Gary will probably get it anyway, especially if they beat Duke this week and tie for first place.

Wish VTech had held on to win last night. That loss would have put some extra distance between us and the twerps.

Scheyer vs. Vasquez comes down to this Wednesday's game as well IMO.

Amazing that Duke could win the conference by 2+ games and not get POY, COY, or ROY honors. ROY we have no shot at, but we should get at least one of the other two if we win out.

wolfpackdevil
02-28-2010, 09:43 PM
I think the suprise team is UNC. Suprise doesn't have to mean good. UNC was ranked 6th to start the season, and now they will probably not even play in the NIT.

Coach of the year is Gary Williams, by far.

Freshman of the year is going to be Derrick Favors. But I think that Jordan Williams of Maryland deserves some consideration.

Player of the year is going to be either Scheyer or Vasquez. If Maryland beats Duke on wednesday and wins the ACC then Vasquez wins POY. If Duke wins out and wins the ACC, Scheyer wins POY. Simple as that.

whirlieduke4
02-28-2010, 09:48 PM
Player of the year is going to be either Scheyer or Vasquez. If Maryland beats Duke on wednesday and wins the ACC then Vasquez wins POY. If Duke wins out and wins the ACC, Scheyer wins POY. Simple as that.


Hasn't it been determined that they would in fact be Co-Champions if this were to happen?

Duvall
02-28-2010, 09:54 PM
If Duke sweeps Maryland and UNC to finish 14-2 and a full 2 games ahead of their nearest challenger, I have a hard time seeing how Coach K shouldn't be Coach of the Year.

Nah, by rule Mike Krzyzewski can't win ACC Coach of the Year with fewer than 15 conference wins. No way he gets the award with a paltry 14.

licc85
02-28-2010, 10:04 PM
I want Scheyer to win player of the year, but vasquez has made a serious push for the award lately, he had a ridiculous 41/7/6 game in a double OT win against v tech. It will probably come down to who wins at Maryland. If we can shut him down on wednesday, scheyer will probably get the nod.

Olympic Fan
02-28-2010, 10:25 PM
In 1998, Coach K led Duke to a 15-1 ACC record and rallied to beat UNC in the regular season finale to clinch the regular season title. UNC finished 14-2 in the league ...

Bill Guthridge, who inherited the top six players off Dean Smith's Final Four team in 1997, won coach of the year for finishing second in the ACC.

In 2001, Duke did his greatest coaching job, rebuilding his team after the late injury to Carlos Boozer. On the last day of the regular season, Duke went to UNC and blitzed UNC without Boozer to win a share of the regular season title with the Tar Heels at 13-2 ... Paul Hewitt won ACC coach of the year with an 8-8 ACC record.

In 1992, Duke was No. 1 every week of the season and won the ACC by three full games over second place FSU. FSU's Pat Kennedy won coach of the year.

I'm just saying, Duke look for K to win coach of the year, no matter what happens Wednesday in College Park. Gary's a lock for the award (and is not as bad a choice as Guthridge in '98, Hewitt in '01 or Kennedy in '92).

I agree that that Wednesday's game will determine player of the year ... but I think that not only does Duke need to win, but Scheyer needs to clearly outplay Vasquez.

Favors is the clearcut rookie of the year ... and that's not really by default. He's only been disappointing in comparison to the ridiculous preseason expectations. He's leading all ACC freshmen in scoring, rebounding and blocked shots. Jordan Williams has been solid, but Favors has been better in every phase of the game.

gw67
03-01-2010, 07:48 AM
The easy one is Favors for ROY. He has not been as dominant as expected but he has been the best. Williams has been a surprise to everyone, even the Maryland folk.

Up till recently, it appeared that Bennett or Greenburg would get the nod. As of today, I suspect that Gary Williams is leading for COY. No one expected Maryland to do this well and, as usual, he has made chicken salad without the chicken. According to the Recruiting Services Consensus Index (RSCI), he only has two consensus top 100 players on this year's team - Vasquez(93) and Mosley(50). Several other ACC teams have more and higher rated players.

The Scheyer-Vasquez contest for POY is the most difficult to choose IMO. Both are very deserving youngsters who are having excellent years and are closing out very good four-year careers. Scheyer got off to an incredible start and had TV commentators wraping up national and ACC POY for him(even before he played a conference game). During the ACC games, he has not played nearly as well although he has kept up his scoring average. Vasquez, on the other hand, got off to a slow start and has come on strong the last 3/4 of the year, including ACC games. IMO, this is similar to the JWill-Dixon situation in 2002. JWill had a great year and had oodles of national pub while Dixon had a terrific year and a better ACC season. JWill got the NPOY while Dixon got the ACC POY. If I were voting, I would base it on their ACC seasons and, therefore, I would vote for Vasquez. If a voter considers the overall season and the team record, then it is Scheyer. Not a bad choice in either case.

gw67

ice-9
03-01-2010, 07:56 AM
I respect that Maryland has done well by coming in 1st/2nd in the ACC, but wasn't Maryland also ranked in the preseason?

OK I checked. Maryland was 26th in the preseason and rose to 21st in the second week before dropping out completely following a loss.

So, in a way, Gary basically has this team at preseason expectations -- just on the cusp of the top 25.

Is that a performance worthy of coach of the year?

I'm not saying it should be given to anyone else. Although, it's interesting to note that Duke was #9 in the preseason and now likely #4. Just sayin'.

superdave
03-01-2010, 08:07 AM
Agree on Scheyer vs. Vasquez. Duke would have to hold Greivas to a bad night - something along the lines of 5-18, 15 points, 4 TO's, loss.

I think another factor to consider is that Jon was moved to point, something he ahs not played his whole career. So his degree of difficulty at least matched Vasquez's degree of difficulty playing with an average lineup.

gw67
03-01-2010, 08:34 AM
I respect that Maryland has done well by coming in 1st/2nd in the ACC, but wasn't Maryland also ranked in the preseason?

OK I checked. Maryland was 26th in the preseason and rose to 21st in the second week before dropping out completely following a loss.

So, in a way, Gary basically has this team at preseason expectations -- just on the cusp of the top 25.

Is that a performance worthy of coach of the year?

I'm not saying it should be given to anyone else. Although, it's interesting to note that Duke was #9 in the preseason and now likely #4. Just sayin'.

We're debating ACC COY not national COY. The Devils were chosen to finish 1st (tied with UNC - amazing!) while Maryland was chosen to finish 5th. Williams is not in the debate for national COY but I think that he is in the debate for ACC COY. I don't believe that anyone predicted that Maryland would win 11 games and finish as high as they will.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/102509aab.html

gw67

PumpkinFunk
03-01-2010, 08:39 AM
Surprise of the Year for me is easily UNC (though Va Tech is a close second, as they have done pretty well all things considered).

Coach of the Year is Seth Greenberg, considering how bare that roster is and how well they've done in the ACC. Had UVA not gone on a 7-game losing streak and ended up even as high as 8-8 in the conference, I'd give Tony Bennett the nod instead.

Player of the Year is Greivis. Jon is the best on the national level, but Greivis is just dominant in conference and with some of the best numbers, he (and also Delaney at VaTech) is hard to deny the conference POY. Even with Jon in the running for NPOY.

jimsumner
03-01-2010, 08:43 AM
Look at Georgia Tech's roster

Look at UNC's roster

Look at Maryland's roster

Look at the standings

Then, tell me Maryland is doing about as well as expected.

miramar
03-01-2010, 09:09 AM
Look at Maryland's roster



When you look at their main page, instead of "Roster" it says "Student-Athletes." Maybe it's me, but aren't students supposed to graduate on a regular basis?

http://www.umterps.com/sports/m-baskbl/md-m-baskbl-body.html

Fortunately, once you click on the main page, we get back to reality and it says "Roster."

What a difference a year makes in the ACC. A year ago Gary was on the hot seat and ol' Roy could do no wrong.

gw67
03-01-2010, 09:23 AM
jim,

I agree. A quick read of the RSCI shows that Duke (9), UNC (10), Georgia Tech (6), Wake (4), Virginia Tech (4), NC State (3) and Virginia (3) have more players who were rated in top 100 and a vast majority were ranked higher than Vasquez and Mosley. Miami, Clemson and Florida State also had two top 100 players but in each case these players were ranked higher than Vasquez and Mosley. Only BC had less players rated in top 100. No wonder the AD and fans were giving Williams trouble last year. This year he has three seniors and players who are good fits into his system. He has also coached very well.

gw67

calltheobvious
03-01-2010, 09:41 AM
Look at Georgia Tech's roster

Look at UNC's roster

Look at Maryland's roster

Look at the standings

Then, tell me Maryland is doing about as well as expected.

So we're giving out trophies now simply for doing a better job than Roy and Hewitt?;)

flyingdutchdevil
03-01-2010, 11:14 AM
With regards to Jon vs Greivis, I think it will be like last year:

If Duke wins the ACC with a margin (2-3 games above UMD), it will go to Jon, even though a) Greivis's numbers are more impressive and b) Greivis is more important to UMD than Jon is to Duke (that's nothing against Jon, but it just shows how valuable Greivis is so UMD).

Last year, Lawson got it despite Toney Douglas probably deserving it more. The difference - Lawson was on the best ACC team.

I can see the exact same thing panning out this time around.

ice-9
03-01-2010, 11:24 AM
We're debating ACC COY not national COY. The Devils were chosen to finish 1st (tied with UNC - amazing!) while Maryland was chosen to finish 5th. Williams is not in the debate for national COY but I think that he is in the debate for ACC COY. I don't believe that anyone predicted that Maryland would win 11 games and finish as high as they will.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/102509aab.html

gw67

The post was written with ACC COY in mind, and the point still stands.

As of the second week of the season, ACC teams were ranked the following in the AP poll:
- Duke #7
- UNC #11
- Clemson #19
- Maryland #21
- Florida State #27
- Georgia Tech #28

Going with the above, Maryland was thought to be fourth best in the conference (and in the preseason the AP poll thought they were fifth best; either way, it's reflective of ACC preseason votes). Of course, with the exception of Duke, the entire conference turned out to be weaker than expected.

This isn't a case of Maryland exceeding expectations; it's a case of Maryland doing just what was expected in the preseason and other ACC teams falling short of expectations. Maryland comes out looking like roses but really...if you think about it, relative to the national picture, they are about where they're supposed to be.

So I reiterate...is this a performance worthy of ACC COY?

If so, I don't think "exceeding expectations" is a valid reason.

94duke
03-01-2010, 11:30 AM
The post was written with ACC COY in mind, and the point still stands.

As of the second week of the season, ACC teams were ranked the following in the AP poll:
- Duke #7
- UNC #11
- Clemson #19
- Maryland #21
- Florida State #27
- Georgia Tech #28

Going with the above, Maryland was thought to be fourth best in the conference (and in the preseason they were fifth best; either way, this is reflective of ACC preseason votes). Of course, with the exception of Duke, the entire conference turned out to be weaker than expected, Maryland included.

This isn't a case of Maryland exceeding expectations; it's a case of Maryland doing just what was expected in the preseason and other ACC teams falling short of expectations.

So I reiterate...is this a performance worthy of ACC COY?

If so, I don't think "exceeding expectations" is a valid reason.

Exceeding expectations is a valid reason.
We are talking about ACC COY, not national COY.
MD was picked pre-season 5 in the ACC. They currently sit 2 in the ACC with a chance for 1.
I repeat, exceeding expectations is a valid reason for ACC COY.

ice-9
03-01-2010, 11:34 AM
Look at Georgia Tech's roster

Look at UNC's roster

Look at Maryland's roster

Look at the standings

Then, tell me Maryland is doing about as well as expected.

Maryland looks good only because UNC, Clemson, Georgia Tech and Florida State all did so much worse than expected.

I'm not suggesting we give Hewitt or Roy the COY. I'm simply suggesting that Gary did a good but not great job with this year's team, and that comparing his performance to Hewitt's or Roy's is a fallacy, a straw man if you will.

jimsumner
03-01-2010, 11:39 AM
Vasquez might be a second-round NBA draft pick. Might be. Williams should develop into an NBA player if he works hard, tones his body and listens to the coaches. But that two/three years off. That's about it.

Maryland barely has one consensus top-50 recruit, Mosley, and nary a single prep-All American. If anyone thought back in November that Maryland would be Duke's last remaining obstacle to a regular-season title, then they sure kept that opinion to themselves.

I fail to see how the fact that Roy Williams and Paul Hewitt and Dino Gaudio have taken more talented teams and done less with them supports the view that Gary Williams isn't deserving of the COY award.

ice-9
03-01-2010, 11:49 AM
Exceeding expectations is a valid reason.
We are talking about ACC COY, not national COY.
MD was picked pre-season 5 in the ACC. They currently sit 2 in the ACC with a chance for 1.
I repeat, exceeding expectations is a valid reason for ACC COY.

OK, last try at explaining this.

Let's say in the preseason we have teams ranked thusly in conference:
1. Team Awesome
2. Team Lousy
3. Team Bad
4. Team Inconsistent
5. Team OK

Through season play the teams ranked 2 to 4 lose to teams they shouldn't both outside and inside the conference; this results in the team ranked 5, Team OK, to finish second.

So...did the coach of Team OK do a good job?

You answer that by looking outside the conference. He did a decent job, because Team OK is ranked just about where it was ranked in the preseason nationally.

Team OK outperformed conference expectations not because Team OK's coach did a good job; it's more because the coaches of Team Lousy, Bad and Inconsistent did not so good jobs. Team OK looks great in comparison to those under-performing teams; but not particularly outstanding compared to other teams outside the conference.

Now Team Awesome was picked first in conference. It finishes first in conference. Did the coach of Team Awesome do a good job? Hard to say if you only look at conference standings, so let's look outside the conference again. Why yes, Team Awesome did better than expected, so Team Awesome is not just awesome because it beat a lot of teams it was supposed to, it's awesome because it really is a better team than expected as illustrated by their national standing.

I guess the short version of what I'm trying to say is that you can't just look at ACC standings to determine how a coach did with his team.

94duke
03-01-2010, 11:58 AM
OK, last try at explaining this.

Let's say in the preseason we have teams ranked thusly in conference:
1. Team Awesome
2. Team Lousy
3. Team Bad
4. Team Inconsistent
5. Team OK

Through season play the teams ranked 2 to 4 lose to teams they shouldn't both outside and inside the conference; this results in the team ranked 5, Team OK, to finish second.

So...did the coach of Team OK do a good job?

You answer that by looking outside the conference. He did a decent job, because Team OK is ranked just about where it was ranked in the preseason nationally.

Team OK outperformed conference expectations not because Team OK's coach did a good job; it's more because the coaches of Team Lousy, Bad and Inconsistent did not so good jobs. Team OK looks great in comparison to those under-performing teams; but not particularly outstanding compared to other teams outside the conference.

Now Team Awesome was picked first in conference. It finishes first in conference. Did the coach of Team Awesome do a good job? Hard to say if you only look at conference standings, so let's look outside the conference again. Why yes, Team Awesome did better than expected, so Team Awesome is not just awesome because it beat a lot of teams it was supposed to, it's awesome because it really is a better team than expected as illustrated by their national standing.

I guess the short version of what I'm trying to say is that you can't just look at ACC standings to determine how a coach did with his team.

The only problem with your thinking is that, traditionally, the writers ONLY take the conference games into consideration for these awards. This is how JWil can win NPOY while Juan Dixon can win ACC POY (2002).

ice-9
03-01-2010, 12:07 PM
The only problem with your thinking is that, traditionally, the writers ONLY take the conference games into consideration for these awards. This is how JWil can win NPOY while Juan Dixon can win ACC POY (2002).

You're probably right but it's a lousy system. It pretty much means that the coach of the preseason top ranked team can't win the award.

Imagine if you're the coach of the top ranked team inside your conference but the conference as a whole just isn't well regarded. Still, you kick butt and by season's end you're ranked top ten nationally. Yet you don't win conference COY because silly voters will only look within the conference.

They'd rather give the award to a team that went from fifth to second in conference but did what was expected nationally vs. a team that stayed at first but did better than what was expected nationally.

94duke
03-01-2010, 12:21 PM
You're probably right but it's a lousy system. It pretty much means that the coach of the preseason top ranked team can't win the award.

Imagine if you're the coach of the top ranked team inside your conference but the conference as a whole just isn't well regarded. Still, you kick butt and by season's end you're ranked top ten nationally. Yet you don't win conference COY because silly voters will only look within the conference.

They'd rather give the award to a team that went from fifth to second in conference but did what was expected nationally vs. a team that stayed at first but did better than what was expected nationally.

I don't disagree with you here!
I think Coach K should be COY!
:)