MBB: UNC-CH 77, Wake Forest 68

[ChrisP]

Wake seems to think they can win this game in the first 10 minutes. They are taking LOTS of quick shots - many of them 3's. Worse, they are shooting the 3 about as well as Duke does lately (i.e. not well). They just need to calm down and let Carolina shoot themselves in the foot. You KNOW they will!

C'mon Wake! Don't listen to Dino - just play like ya know ya can!

[davekay1971]

I'm actually a little disturbed to see some of the Carolina players actually appearing to give a crap. Zeller and Henson, in particular, may actually form some sort of core of players who haven't completely quit on the season.

Wake needs to jump on them and knock them back. Over the last two months, Carolina hasn't shown the ability or confidence to fight back when a team punches them in the mouth. Let those 'Holes get an upset win on the road against a good team, and suddenly they might start trying again.

It's up to you, Wake. Kick them while they're down!


Addendum:
Mods, I like the title of the other Carolina/Wake thread that got started while I was typing this better. Please just merge this into that one. Thanks.

[slower]

The courtside mic just picked up somebody (Royd?) saying "Larry, get in his pants!"

[ChrisP]

Gotta give the heels credit for actually displaying some effort and fire today. I'll go ahead and say it - I think they win this game. Wake looks spastic and out of control. When was the last time UNC had a lead at the half in an ACC road game?

[mcdukie]

I love the thread title. I tried to watch the game but it was too hard.

[CDu]

UNC has taken Smith and Aminu out of the flow so far. The two are 1-11 from the field to this point with just 3 points. Wake is going to have to get more from those guys if they're going to win this game. UNC is actually playing like a reasonably decent basketball team. They've committed only 3 turnovers and have 8 assists. Drew (5 assists, 0 turnovers) is outplaying Smith so far, and Henson (7 rebounds, 5 blocks) has been a force.

That said, if Wake can come out and make a big early second-half push, I suspect UNC will fold like usual. Let's hope that happens. I really want a sub-.500 season for the Heels this year.

[91devil]

Wake has some serious issues when they have the ball. Their offense consists of Ish Smith freelancing / driving, or quick jumpshots after one pass. They aren't even trying to get the ball to Aminu, their best player.

UNC is playing better, I guess, than they have been but I really think Wake is punting this game away so far.

[CDu]

Wake has some serious issues when they have the ball. Their offense consists of Ish Smith freelancing / driving, or quick jumpshots after one pass. They aren't even trying to get the ball to Aminu, their best player.

UNC is playing better, I guess, than they have been but I really think Wake is punting this game away so far.

That's kind of been their offense all year. Usually, it works (Smith is really good off the dribble. UNC is actually working hard to prevent touches for Aminu.

[davekay1971]

This game reminds me of the Will Smith - Kevin James kiss in Hitch. Wake's gone 90% to playing down to Carolina, and Carolina is surprising everyone by going 10% to playing up to Wake...they're currently meeting in the middle and it's a pretty ugly sight.

[jjasper0729]

when on defense, wake doesn't seem that they want the ball.. just saw a missed unc shot fall between 3 wake defenders like it was a baseball falling in for a bloop single

[WiJoe]

Sorry to say, dracula seems to have life.

[DukeUsul]

This game reminds me of the Will Smith - Kevin James kiss in Hitch...

Something completely unbearable to watch, but you just find that you can't look away?

[jjasper0729]

bonner just talked about how intense unc is playing right now after Graves made an obvious foul jumping on aminu's back that was called a jump ball...

i don't know that unc is playing so hard as wake is playing poorly

[davekay1971]

I'm starting to think Huck must read the DBR boards. He's slowed it down and let them run some halfcourt sets. Hall of Fame coach, my butt...only took him 9/10 of the season to figure out something most of us had figured out by January.

[jjasper0729]

is indicative of a team that thought they could just walk out there and get a 20 point lead and coast... they are not playing hard and all and i think if they do lose (which looks very likely) that they thoroughly deserve it

[sivartrenrag]

I actually felt pretty good inside when Henson was running down the court smiling and clapping.

I never thought that would happen.

[davekay1971]

bonner just talked about how intense unc is playing right now after Graves made an obvious foul jumping on aminu's back that was called a jump ball...

i don't know that unc is playing so hard as wake is playing poorly

These are Raycom announcers. Honestly, if Raycom just went ahead and hired Woody Durham to do their play by play, would you be shocked?

[Cockabeau]

Unbelievable how many calls/noncalls went UNC's way...

[CDu]

Unbelievable how many calls/noncalls went UNC's way...

I actually don't think the officiating has been very one-sided. Wake is just playing really poorly, and UNC isn't playing nearly as badly as usual.

[ChrisP]

On another note, I hate Wake Forest. What a bunch of scrubs! And I'm an alum, too. This game is the reason why I don't own a single piece of Wake gear. Scrubs!!!

[BD80]

Wait. CBS must be showing a replay or something. Graves and T.Wear are injured and aren't playing today.

Or did that rascally roy pull another fast one?

[DukeGirl4ever]

I think Wake is shooting less than 30% from the field and probably just as bad from the foul line.

I don't think UNC is playing that great, but Wake gave them a little confidence in the first half and that's all they really need right now with Wake not being able to hit the broad side of a barn.

Let me just add, Chas McFarland is HORRIBLE!

[davekay1971]

Wake is officially letting UNC up off the map. Carolina's biggest problem, aside from their coach, the nauseating color of their uniform, their front-running whine and cheese fanbase, and a few other chronic issues, has been their confidence. Wake's giving them a heaping helping.

I'd now be really surprised if they managed to lose to Miami. Which means they'll be coming into Cameron actually thinking they've turned it around and can do something in the ACC tournament.

So it's Duke's job to firmly smack them back down into submission and remind them that they do, in fact, suck. I think we're up to the challenge.

[El_Diablo]

On another note, I hate Wake Forest. What a bunch of scrubs! And I'm an alum, too. This game is the reason why I don't own a single piece of Wake gear. Scrubs!!!

Is your last name Paul?

[CDu]

Is your last name Paul?

Couldn't be. Chris Paul isn't an alum (he just went there for a couple of years).

[WiJoe]

What's with all the hole fans in W-S. Wal-Mart job fair?

[ChrisP]

Couldn't be. Chris Paul isn't an alum (he just went there for a couple of years).

True! I went to grad school there so I think I was there longer than the other CP. But seriously, they are such a bunch of wannabes, it's not even funny. Every time I get excited about one of their teams, they tank.

[El_Diablo]

Couldn't be. Chris Paul isn't an alum (he just went there for a couple of years).

Well, if you want to split hairs...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alumnus

a·lum·nus
/əˈlʌmnəs/
1. a graduate or former student of a specific school, college, or university.

[Indoor66]

Actually, Wake is not really a very good team. They have several "good" players but they do not play a good team game.

[El_Diablo]

WF within 4...

[PSurprise]

Wake decided to finally make some baskets. FG % is just above 30 right now.

[WiJoe]

Actually, Wake is not really a very good team. They have several "good" players but they do not play a good team game.


I think this goes to the relatively weak state of the ACC. Aside from Duke and Maryland, who is there to fear. Dang Holes could make a run in the ACC tourney.

[CDu]

Well, if you want to split hairs...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alumnus

a·lum·nus
/əˈlʌmnəs/
1. a graduate or former student of a specific school, college, or university.

Yeah, I was just making a joke based on the standard connotation.

[WiJoe]

Ish Smith is brutally bad. 21 shots? Yikes.

Boy, the Deacs REALLY are unintelligent.

Couldn't bear to watch the celebration.

[RoyalBlue08]

Congrats to the Tar Heels for keeping their NIT hopes alive.

[Jderf]

Concerning the last two minutes, I thought it was a smart, intriguing move to go to the foul-and-shoot strategy a bit earlier than usual, with how poorly UNC was hitting from the stripe. But Wake's offense... oh god. Just awful. I liked the move of playing D like there was 30 seconds left, but rushing the offense was just a bad idea. Mixed bag for Gaudio, I'd say.

[91devil]

Wake is officially letting UNC up off the map. Carolina's biggest problem, aside from their coach, the nauseating color of their uniform, their front-running whine and cheese fanbase, and a few other chronic issues, has been their confidence. Wake's giving them a heaping helping.

I'd now be really surprised if they managed to lose to Miami. Which means they'll be coming into Cameron actually thinking they've turned it around and can do something in the ACC tournament.

This statement is so very true. UNC had been playing without any belief that they could win ACC games. Coach Gaudio and Wake have given them that confidence.

[BD80]

ol' roy either got light headed over the win or he knelt to pray in the closing seconds

No question this win is proof that he is an excellent coach. The 14 losses are proof his team doesn't deserve such a great coach.

[Duvall]

Coach Gaudio

[citation needed]

[El_Diablo]

ol' roy either got light headed over the win or he knelt to pray in the closing seconds

He has vertigo issues. I'm guessing that was it.

[BD80]

He has vertigo issues. I'm guessing that was it.

The sudden rise in the ACC standings from 11th to 10th?

[mgtr]

I thought that UNC actually looked fairly good today. I hope that Henson goes early in the draft -- he is going to be good. What is his wingspan again?

[BD80]

I thought that UNC actually looked fairly good today. I hope that Henson goes early in the draft -- he is going to be good. What is his wingspan again?

Depends on the temperature.

On a cold court (like an indoor stadium in winter), he can barely reach sideline to sideline.

On a warm court, like Cameron (pre air conditioning on a warm day) he can easily reach baseline to baseline.

Does anyone know where he keeps Pokey on campus?

[kong123]

To me, it appeared that the guards were told to look for their outside shoot a bit more. They took many more quick shots from the perimeter than normal instead of passing it around the horn, trying to force it inside to a double teamed tall guy. Guess they figured that taking more outside shots would stretch the defense and allow for more space to rebound the ball. Seems a better strategy than trying to continually forcing it in the paint. Of course, who knows if that was the "new" game plan, but it was finally something new to watch. Had Drew made his free throws at the end of the game, the final margin of victory would have been much higher.

[El_Diablo]

Had Drew made his free throws at the end of the game, the final margin of victory would have been much higher.

On the flip side, if Wake had hit *anything* for the first 18 minutes, the margin of victory would have been much lower.

[Devilsfan]

Yeah vertigo, whatever! Daggumit they one to keep their NIT hopes alive.

[kong123]

I imagine Wake's poor shooting performance had nothing to do with UNC playing decent defense? Wake shot a higher percentage from 3 than UNC did and made 1 or 2 more as well.

On another note, had a chance to go to Kinston last night and watch Reggie Bullock play in the state playoff's. He only had 16 points, because he was double teamed each time down the court, but I was really pleased to see how well he shot the ball in warmups. I know that warming up is not the same as game time, but boy was he stroke smooth. He had unlimited range too. I went to school in Kinston back when Stackhouse was a junior. Bullock is a different type of player, more of an Ellington type. He is more athletic than Ellington is and will be a big help next year.

[gumbomoop]

Ish Smith is brutally bad. 21 shots? Yikes.

Boy, the Deacs REALLY are unintelligent.

Couldn't bear to watch the celebration.

Wake seems to have assumed they could merely show up. Understandable, but very foolish, as Gaudio and his players are not DBR posters, who can afford to discount the Heels. The Heels' opponents the rest of the year should assume they'll face the team that showed up today, which, btw, was hardly brilliant, but clearly more organized and energetic than for a long while.

Wake, meanwhile...... What can Gaudio's "game plan" [using the term loosely] possibly have been that would have led to Ish taking 21 shots to Aminu's 7? For that matter, LD Wms took 13. Some posters have suggested that Gaudio is in Hewitt's league.

Henson is coming along, presumably because Roy no longer thinks he's a 3. With some muscle over the summer, he'll make a major impact next year, unless the NBA "potential gods" snatch him up. Unlikely, I'd think, but who knows.

[miramar]

The sudden rise in the ACC standings from 11th to 10th?

Ol' Roy wasn't counting on State beating Miami, so now there's a three-way tie for last.

http://www.theacc.com/this-is/accstandings.html#mbb

That will make the Carolina-Miami game on Tuesday a real nail biter! They might even have fewer empty seats.

[BD80]

Ol' Roy wasn't counting on State beating Miami, so now there's a three-way tie for last.

http://www.theacc.com/this-is/accstandings.html#mbb

That will make the Carolina-Miami game on Tuesday a real nail biter! They might even have fewer empty seats.

They might even get some noise going!

I can hear the cheers now ...

"WE'RE NUMBER TEN! WE'RE NUMBER TEN!" (in the ACC)

[Delaware]

Ol' Roy wasn't counting on State beating Miami, so now there's a three-way tie for last.

http://www.theacc.com/this-is/accstandings.html#mbb

That will make the Carolina-Miami game on Tuesday a real nail biter! They might even have fewer empty seats.


Miami's coaching may be worse than Gaudio and Hewitt.... UNC-CH has a shot to get out of the last place tie, I would say.

[devildeac]

I am seriously considering changing my screen name to "devil_____.":mad:

[chrisheery]

I thought that UNC actually looked fairly good today. I hope that Henson goes early in the draft -- he is going to be good. What is his wingspan again?

I kept thinking this. It is actually a worst case senario for UNC. Henson is playing really well and looking like the stud people predicted he would be. Just in time for Carolina to not make the tournament. So he boosts his stock and Carolina still barely wins against a team that really played terribly.

UNC potential losses for next year:

LDII (doubt it though)
Ed Davis (draft, much more likely)
McDonald (whispers of transfer)
Henson (draft, unclear at this point though)
Deon Thompson (senior)
Ginyard (senior)
Graves (team rules violation - kidding)

That is 7 of their 11 players this year. Clearly, I think the LD II thing is kinda over dramatized. Graves isn't good. If Davis decides to go and Henson keeps playing well and goes, they are a team of freshmen and sophomores with LD II. That won't be good.

[David]

Gaudio may not be long for Winston-Salem. I am not a fan. Why do so many ACC schools have such sub-par coaches?

[DukeGirl4ever]

Gaudio may not be long for Winston-Salem. I am not a fan. Why do so many ACC schools have such sub-par coaches?

Does that guy ever get in his players' faces and ream them out? He seems like he has no passion.

[shoutingncu]

I'm starting to think Huck must read the DBR boards. He's slowed it down and let them run some halfcourt sets. Hall of Fame coach, my butt...only took him 9/10 of the season to figure out something most of us had figured out by January.

Didn't pay close enough attention to determine if this was a team effort (slowing it down) or just on the three occasions that Ginyard led the break... each time to my yelling at the screen to give the ball up... and each time him slowing things down considerably and <gasp> holding onto the ball. I seem to recall a story from '05 where Roy sat Jackie Manual down and told him not to shoot anymore. I think a similar conversation may have happened with Ginyard, re: running and dribbling at the same time.

On another note: A student behind the basket had a sign that read: Text Roy to 90999 for Carolina Relief... or something to that effect.

[CDu]

I kept thinking this. It is actually a worst case senario for UNC. Henson is playing really well and looking like the stud people predicted he would be. Just in time for Carolina to not make the tournament. So he boosts his stock and Carolina still barely wins against a team that really played terribly.

UNC potential losses for next year:

LDII (doubt it though)
Ed Davis (draft, much more likely)
McDonald (whispers of transfer)
Henson (draft, unclear at this point though)
Deon Thompson (senior)
Ginyard (senior)
Graves (team rules violation - kidding)

That is 7 of their 11 players this year. Clearly, I think the LD II thing is kinda over dramatized. Graves isn't good. If Davis decides to go and Henson keeps playing well and goes, they are a team of freshmen and sophomores with LD II. That won't be good.

Well, Graves isn't going anywhere. He'll be back. So he'll be the veteran "leadership." UNC could lose McDonald (though I don't know that the whispers go much beyond this board), and Drew seems to be saying he isn't leaving. I'd guess that it's as least as likely that Henson, McDonald, and Drew all stay as it is that two or more of those three leave.

[left_hook_lacey]

I imagine Wake's poor shooting performance had nothing to do with UNC playing decent defense? Wake shot a higher percentage from 3 than UNC did and made 1 or 2 more as well.

On another note, had a chance to go to Kinston last night and watch Reggie Bullock play in the state playoff's. He only had 16 points, because he was double teamed each time down the court, but I was really pleased to see how well he shot the ball in warmups. I know that warming up is not the same as game time, but boy was he stroke smooth. He had unlimited range too. I went to school in Kinston back when Stackhouse was a junior. Bullock is a different type of player, more of an Ellington type. He is more athletic than Ellington is and will be a big help next year.

Hey, Kong, I'm from Kinston too. Live in Wilmington now. Where did you go to highschool? I was in 8th grade Stackhouse's senior year, and my teammates and I would finish our jr. high game and then go to see Stackhouse play if they had a home game. Ah, the good ole days.

[airowe]

Hey, Kong, I'm from Kinston too. Live in Wilmington now. Where did you go to highschool? I was in 8th grade Stackhouse's senior year, and my teammates and I would finish our jr. high game and then go to see Stackhouse play if they had a home game. Ah, the good ole days.

I don't think he'll be answering you anytime soon ;)

On Bullock, I'm surprised he could only get off 16 points. I believe his team is now playing on the 2A Level.

[MChambers]

Henson is coming along, presumably because Roy no longer thinks he's a 3. With some muscle over the summer, he'll make a major impact next year, unless the NBA "potential gods" snatch him up. Unlikely, I'd think, but who knows.
In some ways, the multiple injuries to UNC's bigs have at least a silver lining for them in that it forced Ol' Roy to move Henson to his natural position, rather than trying to pretend he's a college 3.

[sagegrouse]

Gaudio may not be long for Winston-Salem. I am not a fan. Why do so many ACC schools have such sub-par coaches?

Hiring a basketball coach results in a multi-year contract, and there are no sure things. The worst circumstance is when the coach has initial success and gets a long-term contract to keep him from leaving. This is where GT is with Paul Hewitt. After reaching the NC championship game in 2004, the AD IIRC gave him a large "evergreen" contract at $1.5M per. Evergreen means it renews automatically for an additional year each year. I think the buyout price has been quoted at $7.5 million. The previous AD (Braine) was concerned about losing Hewitt to the NBA or a higher profile program. Well,.... it seemed like a good idea at the time. Moreover, I have a hard time seeing wealthy Tech alumni putting together a buyout fund for a basketball coach like ND alums did to dump Charlie Weis.

Gaudio passed his trial-by-fire in taking over from Skip Prosser and got a multi-year contract. The Wake AD's situation is not nearly as tough, except that, although Dino doesn't seem to be the answer, the team is winning games and making the NCAAs. You could get someone no better than Dino or maybe even worse.

I am skeptical about Sidney Lowe, which makes me an enthusiast compared with the typical State alum. Nevertheless, he really hasn't had the horses. Javi G. as your ACC point guard? JJ Hickson for only one year? Apparently he has some talent coming in. I think he will get another couple of years.

Haith may or may not be the answer at Miami. His problem may be lack of ticket sales: the basketball revenues must be the lowest in the ACC. The threat to him is a big-name coach (Isiah?) who can build enthusiasm and fill the seats.

The other factor: what established coach wants to be in the ACC with the Duke and UNC juggernaut?

sagegrouse

[David]

Hiring a basketball coach results in a multi-year contract, and there are no sure things. The worst circumstance is when the coach has initial success and gets a long-term contract to keep him from leaving. This is where GT is with Paul Hewitt. After reaching the NC championship game in 2004, the AD IIRC gave him a large "evergreen" contract at $1.5M per. Evergreen means it renews automatically for an additional year each year. I think the buyout price has been quoted at $7.5 million. The previous AD (Braine) was concerned about losing Hewitt to the NBA or a higher profile program. Well,.... it seemed like a good idea at the time. Moreover, I have a hard time seeing wealthy Tech alumni putting together a buyout fund for a basketball coach like ND alums did to dump Charlie Weis.

Gaudio passed his trial-by-fire in taking over from Skip Prosser and got a multi-year contract. The Wake AD's situation is not nearly as tough, except that, although Dino doesn't seem to be the answer, the team is winning games and making the NCAAs. You could get someone no better than Dino or maybe even worse.

I am skeptical about Sidney Lowe, which makes me an enthusiast compared with the typical State alum. Nevertheless, he really hasn't had the horses. Javi G. as your ACC point guard? JJ Hickson for only one year? Apparently he has some talent coming in. I think he will get another couple of years.

Haith may or may not be the answer at Miami. His problem may be lack of ticket sales: the basketball revenues must be the lowest in the ACC. The threat to him is a big-name coach (Isiah?) who can build enthusiasm and fill the seats.

The other factor: what established coach wants to be in the ACC with the Duke and UNC juggernaut?

sagegrouse

Nice response. As to your last point, the "Duke and UNC juggernaut" could work in the other direction as well. A rising Duke/UNC tide (media attention; nationally televised games; better SOS; games at Cameron, etc.) could actually help to float other ACC boats...

On a related note, I was struck by Jim Young's article linked on the DBR front page comparing Duke 1995 to UNC 2010. The description of the ACC's strength in 1995 is impressive. Young writes: "Even without a strong Duke team, the league was a monster in 1995. Wake Forest won the conference tournament and was the No. 1 seed in the East Region. UNC was a No. 2 seed and reached the Final Four. Maryland was a No. 3 seed and made it to the Sweet 16. UVa was a No. 4 seed and knocked off No. 1 seed Kansas (coached by a guy named Roy Williams) in the Sweet 16 on its way to the Elite Eight." How much of the difference between the quality of the league in 1995 versus 2010 is due to coaching?

[moonpie23]

The other factor: what established coach wants to be in the ACC with the Duke and UNC juggernaut?sagegrouse

i think there are two...and i said this during the coaching search for NC state after herb left.


1. Mark Few
2. Bob Knight

[roywhite]

i think there are two...and i said this during the coaching search for NC state after herb left.

1. Mark Few
2. Bob Knight

Maybe so, but I think Tony Bennett made a good career choice in taking the UVa job:

1. He's young and smart
2. He sees Coach K and Roy Williams as leaving sometime in the next several years (who really knows?)
3. Virginia has many elements of success---great arena, some tradition, hunger for a winner, and a fertile recruiting area
4. He'll be building a program which has been down for a while, so short-term expectations are reasonable

[Jim3k]

i think there are two...and i said this during the coaching search for NC state after herb left.


1. Mark Few
2. Bob Knight

What you are really saying is 'zero.'

Few is never leaving Gonzaga. He would have talked to Arizona last year if he had any interest in anywhere else, but he would not even have an opening discussion. Money is not an issue with him. He's the king of the Inland Empire. No reason to leave.

Knight no longer has the fire. After all, he quit Texas Tech midseason, exhausted. I think some health issues contributed to that decision.