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Tim1515
02-26-2010, 06:30 PM
http://bustersports.com/blog/buster-blog/2010/02/26/sources-larry-drew-ii-would-transfer-if-decision-was-today/

CameronBornAndBred
02-26-2010, 07:09 PM
http://bustersports.com/blog/buster-blog/2010/02/26/sources-larry-drew-ii-would-transfer-if-decision-was-today/
Kick his azz, Greg!

DukeGirl4ever
02-26-2010, 07:14 PM
This is very interesting given the fact that there are 2 weeks left in the season.

JasonEvans
02-26-2010, 07:17 PM
I found this part the most surprising--


But our sources have also indicated that Drew is extremely unhappy in Chapel Hill and that his parents are involved with the program in "an unhealthy way" which certainly hasn't endeared him to Roy and which is what will likely facilitate him getting out of town.

Larry Drew's father is a coach (asst on the Atlanta Hawks). As busy as he is with NBA games, I am surprised he has time to meddle in goings on in Chapel Hill. I am also surprised that a guy who coaches (and who has probably dealt with more than a few difficult parents in his time) would become one of those "difficult parents."

Then again, as a coach LD may see some of the horrid, messy coaching going on in Chapel Hill this year and may be talking to Roy to give him some advice.

I wonder if Roy's resposne was, "I've been offered 11 or 12 NBA jobs... how many have you been offered, Larry?"

Silence.

"Yeah, I thought so."

--Jason "the conversation about the struggles of Kendall Marshall just took on more urgency" Evans

Rudy
02-26-2010, 07:26 PM
Would this really be a big loss for them? Drew has been disparaged here and elsewhere.

Kedsy
02-26-2010, 07:31 PM
This is very interesting given the fact that there are 2 weeks left in the season.

Well, the article says "if" the decision were made today he'd transfer but makes clear it won't be made until after the season at the earliest. This may simply be a case of frustration talking. I'll be surprised (but I guess not shocked) if he transfers.

freedevil
02-26-2010, 07:31 PM
I hope this isn't true. I enjoy his on-court performance very much.

JayBean
02-26-2010, 07:32 PM
If the reports are true and he is unhappy with the coaching, then all parties are probably better off going their separate ways. I thought that he was a decent guard; from a pure talent/experience standpoint, this would be a loss.

BlueintheFace
02-26-2010, 07:33 PM
Would this really be a big loss for them? Drew has been disparaged here and elsewhere.

I believe it would be an enormous loss. LDII has all of the tools needed to be a great PG in the ACC. He just finished his first year with significant time and managed pretty decent numbers with ZERO go-to scorers on the team. It is just a matter of pulling it all together IMO.

I do not believe Kendall Marshall has the foot speed/athleticism to be an elite ACC PG and he doesn't even have a pull up three to make up for it. His recruitment reminds me somewhat of Paulus'.

Additionally, UNC would have just one PG next season, a freshman.

airowe
02-26-2010, 07:34 PM
Would this really be a big loss for them? Drew has been disparaged here and elsewhere.

Yes. It would put the ball in the hands of Kendall Marshall and continue to force them to play Dexter Strickland out of position. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if this was the only guy to leave.

moonpie23
02-26-2010, 07:37 PM
absolutely ZERO about this on IC.... >>>???

DukeGirl4ever
02-26-2010, 07:41 PM
Well, the article says "if" the decision were made today he'd transfer but makes clear it won't be made until after the season at the earliest. This may simply be a case of frustration talking. I'll be surprised (but I guess not shocked) if he transfers.

Yea, I saw the "if" statement, but I just find it odd that there is talk about it now....where there is smoke, there is fire, so I think something must have been said by Drew for this to come out. Of course, I'm up here in good ol' PA and have not a clue...

Thinks must be worse than we all thought in Chapel Hill.

moonpie23
02-26-2010, 07:47 PM
absolutely ZERO about this on IC.... >>>???

guess it was not really big news to the holes.....it's hidden inside the Drew II versus Kendall Marshall thread......


kinda low-key...

shoutingncu
02-26-2010, 07:55 PM
This may simply be a case of frustration talking. I'll be surprised (but I guess not shocked) if he transfers.

This was my thought, too. Chapel Hill is like playing in prison, after all...

SCMatt33
02-26-2010, 07:55 PM
Yes. It would put the ball in the hands of Kendall Marshall and continue to force them to play Dexter Strickland out of position. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if this was the only guy to leave.

I totally agree with this. Marshall could be a very good PG, but he will be all on his own unless Strickland continues to play out of position. Strickland has looked like he can be very explosive at times and could be extremely dangerous as a shooting guard next year. I would love to see them have to continue to mess with him.

natedog4ever
02-26-2010, 07:56 PM
Then again, as a coach LD may see some of the horrid, messy coaching going on in Chapel Hill this year and may be talking to Roy to give him some advice.


Probably told him to call a time out for once in his life.

OldSchool
02-26-2010, 07:59 PM
I believe it would be an enormous loss. LDII has all of the tools needed to be a great PG in the ACC. He just finished his first year with significant time and managed pretty decent numbers with ZERO go-to scorers on the team. It is just a matter of pulling it all together IMO.

I do not believe Kendall Marshall has the foot speed/athleticism to be an elite ACC PG and he doesn't even have a pull up three to make up for it. His recruitment reminds me somewhat of Paulus'.

Additionally, UNC would have just one PG next season, a freshman.

I agree it would be a huge hit to UNC. And if Ed Davis is wavering at all in whether to go pro, then one would have to think this would seal it.

All of the pressure would be on Zeller, Henson and Barnes working with a lesser supporting cast around them to bring back Tar Hole glory, and that will be a tall task.

roywhite
02-26-2010, 08:12 PM
I believe it would be an enormous loss. LDII has all of the tools needed to be a great PG in the ACC. He just finished his first year with significant time and managed pretty decent numbers with ZERO go-to scorers on the team. It is just a matter of pulling it all together IMO.



I just don't see LD 2 as being a "great PG in the ACC". He's a sophomore who saw some time last year and has started every game this year. His numbers include:

8.8 pts/game
1.8 asst/turnover
65% FT
less than 1 steal per game

Opposing players tend to score very well against him. He seems to have some quickness and speed, but opposing teams play him for the pass when he drives as he does not get to the rim very well.

Perhaps he would be better with some other talent around him, but at this point he looks like an ordinary point guard on a second-division ACC team...not a guy who will take them to any title, even with more talent.

Not surprising to hear of some turmoil in the locker room.

InSpades
02-26-2010, 08:23 PM
If Drew II leaves and Davis goes pro then UNC will lose 4 starters for the 2nd year in a row. Losing 4 starters off of a bad team... their freshmen better be ready to play from game 1 or it could be another long season in Chapel Hill.

I don't think Drew II will be a "great PG" but losing him would definitely be a significant loss.

Neals384
02-26-2010, 08:30 PM
DO NCAA rules allow a player to transfer before his Frosh year? Barnes must be thinking what a mnistake he's made....

ivydevil
02-26-2010, 08:34 PM
Is Barnes officially signed on with UNC, or can he retract his commitment like Miles did from Stanford? Wouldn't that be the same?

chrisheery
02-26-2010, 08:37 PM
He signed a lette of intent. That ship has sailed.

roywhite
02-26-2010, 08:48 PM
He signed a letter of intent. That ship has sailed.

It's really remarkable how circumstances have changed since that time. It was mid-November and the defending National Champion Tarheels were just starting another season. Although they had lost several key members of the 2009 team, they were ranked as high as #4 nationally and tied for the #1 spot in the ACC with Duke in preseason voting.

The Heels got a commitment from Barnes, ranked by many as the #1 prospect in the high class of 2010, after a lengthy recruiting battle with Duke and others.

3 1/2 months later....
The Heels are 14-14, 3-10 in the conference and likely to miss the NCAA tournament.
Coach Roy Williams has been all over the news for his poor coaching and poor reaction to the downturn.
There are rumors of players being unhappy and leaving the program.
Home attendance and fan support have dropped
Fans are wondering aloud if Barnes has other options...

In the mean time, their rivals 8 miles away have put together a terrific season, lead the ACC, and are in contention for a #1 seed in the NCAA Tournament.

What a story. Who woulda thunk it....

David
02-26-2010, 09:33 PM
Although fun to read as a Duke fan, hard to know what to make of the LDII story given that it is basically a blog post based on unnamed sources. I can believe there are disgruntled players on UNC (losing always breeds discontent), but I am not holding my breath on a LDII transfer.

HateCarolina
02-26-2010, 09:45 PM
I hope this isn't true. I enjoy his on-court performance very much.

Awesome!! I missed this comment the first time around. Bravo!!!

-bdbd
02-26-2010, 10:17 PM
Interesting. Duke is probably the best-known school in D-1 at attracting the kids of NBA players and coaches and other pro athletes and coaches. Think Danny Ferry, Grant Hill, Gerald Henderson, Mike Dunleavy, Chris Collins, Bobby Hurley, etc. (David Rivers??) I've long felt that that speaks volumes about Coach K and Duke, when those with the greatest knowledge and investment in the sport very frequently choose Duke. Many of those parents have been known to watch K and study/talk/learn strategy, techniques, and so on. Interesting then that UNC gets the son of a pro Coach and what happens? He's apparently pushing his son to leave, and apparently the NC@CH spin-meisters are already portraying him as an "unhealthy activity..." Hmmm.

I think UNC could have as many as three frosh starting by some point next year, and if this sory is true, will probably START the year with two freshman starters at least. It does damage their chances next year b/c: (A) There's no time (or mentor) for Marshall to study at all, (B) No depth...so foul trouble (not unexpected for a kid starting as a frosh and who is reportedly a bit foot-slow "a la Paulus") or injury to Marshall and they are in deep tarheel. Even Paul Hewitt will figure out a startegy of driving on Marshall and getting him into quick foul trouble.

UK has shown that you can win with freshman studs, but it is certainly fighting the odds (and even UK was pretty shaky the first 2 months).

If you're one of these top-5 HS recruits coming to UNC, what does this do to to your thinking about escaping, ur, going pro early??? Not fun times in hell...


:D

Carlos
02-26-2010, 10:31 PM
The rumors about Drew (and some other players) being unhappy have been around for a few weeks so the news from BusterSports doesn't surprise me all that much.

The thing is, UNCbi is in somewhat of a no-win position here. If Drew leaves then the Heels are back to a roster with just one point guard who, despite being a pretty good player, may not be the right guy to handle the UNC system. Marshall is very much similar to Drew in that neither guy is someone who is a scorer. The biggest difference is that Drew, while not being quick in the Ty Lawson sense of the word, is certainly quicker than Marshall. Conversely, Marshall is supposedly a much better passer. I confess to having never seen him play, but he sounds a lot like Ed Cota.

So if Drew is gone and Marshall struggles then the Heels are left with a lot of talent at the other spots but questions at point. Zeller and Henson are going to be a nice pair in the frontcourt. Zeller isn't the best defender in the world but in the limited time he's been able to play he's shown that he has the size and some nice moves to score in the halfcourt and his biggest strength has always been his ability to run the floor. Same with Henson who is and outstanding run and jump guy but lacks any offensive polish. But he is a force on defense so he really complements Zeller. So take thsoe two and add in Barnes who like it or not is much more likely to have a Loul Deng type of impact than he is to struggle. Throw in Reggie Bullock who gives them the outside shooting they desperately lack this year and you have four really good players.

So the big question is at the point and if you look at Roy's best teams, they typically have point guards who can rush the ball up the court - Lawson, Felton, Hinrich, and Vaughn were all guys who were exceptionally fast. You don't have that with Marshall.

But... if Drew does stay then you have the potential for some real fireworks. The BusterSports report certainly indicates that team Drew has been somewhat disruptive and that's during a season when he's playing 28 minutes a game. What happens when he's suddenly cut back to 15 - 20 minutes?

DukeBlood
02-26-2010, 10:59 PM
I just don't see LD 2 as being a "great PG in the ACC". He's a sophomore who saw some time last year and has started every game this year. His numbers include:

8.8 pts/game
1.8 asst/turnover
65% FT
less than 1 steal per game

Opposing players tend to score very well against him. He seems to have some quickness and speed, but opposing teams play him for the pass when he drives as he does not get to the rim very well.

Perhaps he would be better with some other talent around him, but at this point he looks like an ordinary point guard on a second-division ACC team...not a guy who will take them to any title, even with more talent.

Not surprising to hear of some turmoil in the locker room.

Compare those numbers to Nolan Smith's of last year? Granted Nolan averaged 7 less MPG but still very comparable to Smiths numbers as a Sophmore. Although he would never make the jump that Nolan has had this year.

I have said it before, Larry Drew II is not the problem of this team. At times he is one of the brighter spots(I shouldn't say bright, but non dull spots). Their problem has been lack of consistency out of the 2/3 and lately the 5(Deon). Drew II was never going to be a superstar but he would of been a very solid PG for them. This would be a bad deal for the TarHeels, Unless they believe Marshall is the answer.

JasonEvans
02-26-2010, 11:11 PM
UK has shown that you can win with freshman studs, but it is certainly fighting the odds (and even UK was pretty shaky the first 2 months).

If you're one of these top-5 HS recruits coming to UNC, what does this do to to your thinking about escaping, ur, going pro early??? Not fun times in hell...


To be clear, Carolina's class next year is not anywhere close to the calliber of class that Kentucky has this season.

Maybe, because they are both #1 recruits, you can compare Wall and that other dude, but there is little comparison of the rest of the class.

Cousins was the #2 or #3 player in the class. Bullock is about top 10-15.

Bledsoe was considered by some to be the second or third best PG in the class -- a kid who ranking continued to shoot up all season -- Kendall Marshall has seen his ranking and reputation take non-stop hits with many folks now considering him a top 25-30 prospect at best.

Heck, Daniel Orton was a top 15ish recruit. UNC has no one coming in that compares to him. I might add that Kentucky had Patrick Patterson back. There is no one on Carolina next year who will have close to the experience or ability of Patterson, that's for sure.

It may be easy to make the comparison, but I don't see it. Especially because Carolina's two best recruits are both wings. Not to know the many kids who play on the wing, but the two most important positions in college basketball are the PG and the C. Kentucky brought in the #1 PG and the #1 C. Carolina is bringing in wings... and they are just a lot easier to find.

--Jason "I might also add that having a big year in the SEC is a whole lot easier than doing the same thing in the ACC" Evans

airowe
02-26-2010, 11:15 PM
Compare those numbers to Nolan Smith's of last year? Granted Nolan averaged 7 less MPG but still very comparable to Smiths numbers as a Sophmore. Although he would never make the jump that Nolan has had this year.

I have said it before, Larry Drew II is not the problem of this team. At times he is one of the brighter spots(I shouldn't say bright, but non dull spots). Their problem has been lack of consistency out of the 2/3 and lately the 5(Deon). Drew II was never going to be a superstar but he would of been a very solid PG for them. This would be a bad deal for the TarHeels, Unless they believe Marshall is the answer.

You are judging that mainly on the play on the court though, not what happens off of it...

DukeBlood
02-26-2010, 11:20 PM
You are judging that mainly on the play on the court though, not what happens off of it...

Well said, On the court he has been good. Off? Who knows.

NashvilleDevil
02-27-2010, 07:01 AM
As Henry Hill would say "The sadder but wiser girl for me!"

Prof. Harold Hill said that. Henry Hill was busy walking through the bowels of the Copa to impress his new girl.

Sorry for the nitpick

Faison1
02-27-2010, 07:11 AM
Come on, folks. We are having an amazing year and have a great recruiting class coming in. If we're being honest, absent the LOI, he has exactly what it takes to be a Blue Devil. The kid is strong academically, well spoken, has strong and positive family influences, and is an OUTSTANDING basketball player.

We can acknowledge all of that without diminishing our guys or our team. I hope he loses every game, but he seems like a great kid on and off the court.

s.i.:)

I completely agree with this. He would have made a fine addition to the Blue Devils, but now I hope he loses every single game going forward.

Going back to the OP, I find this season for UNC really interesting. Not only because I LOVE watching them lose, and hope it continues until they "can" Roy, but because of the drama taking place above and below surface.

No matter what everyone says, UNC still has some serious talent on the squad. So, that must mean they have either leadership or chemistry issues. Leadership issues is believable, because I just don't see much coming out of Ginyard or Thompson.

But chemistry is now obviously a culprit as well. All season, we keep reading quotes out of what seems like the entire team (and the coach), focusing on lack of dedication and missing sacrifice.

Which leads me to wonder, "well, if they are all saying this, who is the main offender?" Is it all Larry Drew? There must be more than one player causing problems.

But, if it is primarily Larry, all I can say is, I hope he stays through his post grad year. That guy is a turnover waiting to happen!

uncwdevil
02-27-2010, 07:36 AM
The most interesting part of that article to me what that Drew is dating Eddie Murphy's daughter.

flyingdutchdevil
02-27-2010, 07:39 AM
The most interesting part of that article to me what that Drew is dating Eddie Murphy's daughter.

Quote of the month. Agree - don't really care about LDII transferring one way or the other

Faison1
02-27-2010, 07:46 AM
But what I really dont get is Leslie MCdonald trying to get Elliot to badmouth Duke in order to influence Barnes.
Does the kid not know that Bullock,Barnes and Strickland are ahead of him in the rotation?

Please tell me that's not true. I hate reading stuff like that. I've always said I should have lived in the '50's, where information was less readily available.

BD80
02-27-2010, 08:38 AM
The most interesting part of that article to me what that Drew is dating Eddie Murphy's daughter.

Any chance she is a well-grounded calming influence on the situation? The voice of reason?

Didn't think so.

duke74
02-27-2010, 09:21 AM
Aw shipoopi. A nit well picked.

Somewhere out there, Buddy Hackett is smiling down on us....

Devilsfan
02-27-2010, 09:40 AM
Imagine if you were a backup point guard on Ol' Roys' team. Giving everything every practice then watching screw ups, turnovers and losses in game action while you are essentially a "male cheerleader". You can't even get in to show your wears. Speaking of wears, it's 78 and sunny today in Orange and L.A. counties. Good morning Chapel Hill.

Kdogg
02-27-2010, 10:05 AM
We are all looking at the downside (for UNC) of a player transfering or going pro. There are still a lot of uncommitted kids for 2010 and a player leaving opens up a scholarship. I don't think it will happen but what if UNC picks up Brandon Knight or Josh Selby? Heck they might be desperate enough to offer CJ Leslie if Davis leaves. Things went south for them quickly but might turn around just as quickly.

blueprofessor
02-27-2010, 10:10 AM
We are all looking at the downside (for UNC) of a player transfering or going pro. There are still a lot of uncommitted kids for 2010 and a player leaving opens up a scholarship. I don't think it will happen but what if UNC picks up Brandon Knight or Josh Selby? Heck they might be desperate enough to offer CJ Leslie if Davis leaves. Things went south for them quickly but might turn around just as quickly.

http://www.dailytarheel.com/press-box/drew-considering-transfer-more-unc-notes

Huck Hamlet would be able to offer a very good opportunity to Brandon Knight.

Best--Blueprofessor:)

RoyalBlue08
02-27-2010, 10:30 AM
This is what worried me when I first read about this LDII might transfer story. I would rather Carolina keep a mediocre player than be given another scholarship to try again. What if Roy goes hard after Knight and gets him? (Or another one of the the undecided kids.) I'm just fine with the team Carolina has assembled. Hell, give them all an extra year or two of eligibility! I will take any news of transferring out of UNC as bad news.

houstondukie
02-27-2010, 10:31 AM
I don't think less of Barnes based on the fact that he chose North Carolina over Duke. And while the whole Skype business was a bit over-the-top for my taste in terms of attention whoring--and I would have felt that way even if he had tuned in the Duke channel instead--I understand that it's a generational thing and the kid has a right to exhibit his enthusiasm while exploiting his time being spotlighted in the center ring. But it's what we learned about him subsequent to the announcement that left me with the impression that Barnes' image as a "great kid" is a fabrication.

Specifically, after giving every impression over an extended period that he was legitimately interested in Duke, and that he genuinely admired and respected Coach K, we learned that during the late-night "spontaneous" visit from Roy Williams immediately following Coach K's in-home visit, Barnes apparently posed for a photo with Roy and a UNC jersey that was used in his Skype commitment telecast--which leaves no doubt in my mind that he already knew he had no intention of signing with Duke. The final confirmation of his duplicity in dealing with Duke and Coach K, however, emerged in an interview that was published on the ESPN website on Feb. 10:

Barnes enjoyed the recruiting process. Despite hundreds of letters and phone calls, he remained thorough and organized.

By the end, Barnes said his decision to go to North Carolina was obvious.

"Honestly, I really didn't have a second choice," Barnes said. "It was that clear-cut."

Under the circumstances, I find it difficult to view this statement as anything other than a deliberate slap in the face to K and Duke.

Now I'm sure that Harrison Barnes could not care less what some Duke fan thinks of him; and frankly, it doesn't matter to me what he thinks. I don't wish him any personal misfortune; but since he's a player for a rival team, I hope our guys defeat him and his team so frequently and so decisively that we leave them and their coaches whimpering and crying in helpless humiliation. But when I see someone say that Barnes is "a great kid," I think there's another person who has been deceived, because what I see from his actual behavior is a kid who has succeeded in projecting a phony image of integrity to mask the fact that he is, in reality, just another prematurely anointed athlete with an overinflated sense of self-worth.

Excellent post.

Looking back on the Barnes recruitment, I really wanted the kid to chose Duke because he came across as a very mature and talented young man - the quintessential Duke player like a Shane Battier or Grant Hill.

But to be honest, even before UNC got seriously involved with Barnes, I always had doubt about Barnes' genuineness. His interviews were too polished - he would always start a sentence with "I would say that." His SLAM magazine diary and his other writings were trying too hard to look smart with 5-syllable words. But I don't blame Barnes for this - it's the media fault for hypeing him up. He is only 16-17 years old after all.

I still wanted him to chose Duke because I knew he could potentially make a huge impact. But now that we have learned about some of the behind-the-scenes behavior of Barnes, it's obvious that he is a tool with a huge ego, and I'm so glad he never chose Duke. Can't wait to destroy him next year.

MChambers
02-27-2010, 10:39 AM
http://www.dailytarheel.com/press-box/drew-considering-transfer-more-unc-notes

Huck Hamlet would be able to offer a very good opportunity to Brandon Knight.

Best--Blueprofessor:)

I know you're just speculating, but are you saying he'd recruit over Marshall before Marshall even arrives on campus? Seems pretty unlikely to me. Although I have to admit that Ol' Roy has surprised me a lot this year.

blueprofessor
02-27-2010, 11:00 AM
I know you're just speculating, but are you saying he'd recruit over Marshall before Marshall even arrives on campus? Seems pretty unlikely to me. Although I have to admit that Ol' Roy has surprised me a lot this year.

Winning is what Huck Hamlet cares most about.
We have heard his derogatory comments about his players.
He is a great recruiter.He feels he can replace transfers with his recruiting ability.
He needs a top point guard who can run an uptempo "system".
Marshall may not be as ACC fast or quick as what Roy needs.
Marshall may be too emotionally committed to UNC to take any action in response to Huck's recruiting or signing Knight.
Huck could explain by saying Knight is a likely one and done and that having Knight will allow Marshall to develop w/o the weight of huge expectations and ultimately be ready to lead the Heels after 1 or 2 (at most ) years.
Drew may be an attitude problem along with Davis.
Yes, he may well go after Knight.

Best--Blueprofessor:)

BTW, Graves is hurt and may not play .

uncwdevil
02-27-2010, 11:04 AM
http://www.dailytarheel.com/press-box/drew-considering-transfer-more-unc-notes

Huck Hamlet would be able to offer a very good opportunity to Brandon Knight.

Best--Blueprofessor:)

From your link:

2. North Carolina coach Roy Williams no longer holds the highest winning percentage of any active coach in Division I basketball due to the Tar Heels 14-14 (3-10 ACC) mark this season. That honor now belongs to Gonzaga coach Mark Few.

[montgomery burns voice]

Excellent.

[/montgomery burns voice]

77devil
02-27-2010, 11:47 AM
This is what worried me when I first read about this LDII might transfer story. I would rather Carolina keep a mediocre player than be given another scholarship to try again. What if Roy goes hard after Knight and gets him? (Or another one of the the undecided kids.) I'm just fine with the team Carolina has assembled. Hell, give them all an extra year or two of eligibility! I will take any news of transferring out of UNC as bad news.

Almost anything is possible, but one would think that any of the better non committed talent for next year would be very wary of approaches from ol' Roy after the train wreck of this season, Huck's many public excoriations of the players, and a player(s) abandoning ship. I suppose their egos might convince one of them that it won't happen to him, but I will be astounded if Huck can pluck anyone of consequence if a scholarship opens up.

It seems more likely that with the public emergence this season of the real Roy, UNC recruiting could take a hit for a bit.

hc5duke
02-27-2010, 11:52 AM
DO NCAA rules allow a player to transfer before his Frosh year? Barnes must be thinking what a mnistake he's made....

Isn't that basically what Kris Humphries did?

BD80
02-27-2010, 11:54 AM
This is what worried me when I first read about this LDII might transfer story. I would rather Carolina keep a mediocre player than be given another scholarship to try again. What if Roy goes hard after Knight and gets him? (Or another one of the the undecided kids.) ...

Maybe Drewtoo can pull a Favre and wait until July to announce his transfer. He didn't stick around last summer, so it wouldn't be unusual for him to go home this summer.


I know you're just speculating, but are you saying he'd recruit over Marshall before Marshall even arrives on campus? Seems pretty unlikely to me. Although I have to admit that Ol' Roy has surprised me a lot this year.

He recruited over Drewtoo almost instantly. I can see ol' roy instantly recruiting over Marshall as soon as a scholly opens. He would point to UK starting Wall and Bledsoe.

Hopefully BK is too smart to buy what ol' roy's sellin'

airowe
02-27-2010, 11:59 AM
Brandon Knight is not going to unc. The only player they even remotely have a chance with for 2010-11 is CJ Leslie, especially if the word filtering out of UK that Cousins wants to return is true. If they think they have chemistry issues in the locker room over there now (they do), then just wait until (if) Leslie shows up.

This is the guy who was dissatisfied with playing time at his high school, took his basketball shoes off, went to the concession stand, grabbed some snacks and a drink, and sat in the stands for the rest of the game. I hope they get CJ Leslie.

SeattleIrish
02-27-2010, 12:41 PM
I'll acknowledge this is a hot-button issue for me, as reading posts impugning players that we recruited, but lost out on, almost always strikes me as sour grapes. Perhaps that's not true for every individual, but it's certainly the first thing that pops into my mind when reading these types of threads on opponents boards and I, perhaps naively, always hope Duke fans can have a more generous perspective.

This is a kid. 16? 17? He's a kid. And everything I've read from anyone who interacts with him on a daily basis is exceedingly positive. Universally, they say he works hard, takes his academics seriously, and treats his teammates/classmates/opponents with respect.

He chose to attend UNC. He's clearly happy with that choice, and perhaps he felt that the entire package they had to offer really did put them far beyond any other school. They've been an outstanding program as of late; perhaps THE best program of the last decade. Good school. Very attractive women. Great college town. Perhaps he really did feel that, when all was said and done, the "fit" for him was far better than it would have been anywhere else. Or, perhaps it was only a teenager giddy about signing with a program and wanting to communicate just how happy he was.

Either way, I think one has to read into it quite a bit to consider it a slap at Duke. I looked at a lot of programs for grad. school, and Wisconsin was simply a great fit for me - I loved everything about it. That's not a slap in the face of, for example, UVA. UVA is an great school - but it was, for me, no contest. It wasn't even close to Wisconsin for me, and had anyone cared enough about my "recruitment" to ask me on national t.v., I may have said something similar to Harrison. And UVA would continue being a great school and a great fit for a whole lot of folks.

Losing Barnes was very disappointing. I think he would have represented us well. I hope he loses a lot of games in light blue, but I don't feel I've seen anything from him that would change my mind about him being a great kid. And I don't think an objective viewing of his recruitment or his behavior indicates otherwise. Believing he's simply a great kid going to a rival school does not make me "deceived";)


s.i.


I don't think less of Barnes based on the fact that he chose North Carolina over Duke. And while the whole Skype business was a bit over-the-top for my taste in terms of attention whoring--and I would have felt that way even if he had tuned in the Duke channel instead--I understand that it's a generational thing and the kid has a right to exhibit his enthusiasm while exploiting his time being spotlighted in the center ring. But it's what we learned about him subsequent to the announcement that left me with the impression that Barnes' image as a "great kid" is a fabrication.

Specifically, after giving every impression over an extended period that he was legitimately interested in Duke, and that he genuinely admired and respected Coach K, we learned that during the late-night "spontaneous" visit from Roy Williams immediately following Coach K's in-home visit, Barnes apparently posed for a photo with Roy and a UNC jersey that was used in his Skype commitment telecast--which leaves no doubt in my mind that he already knew he had no intention of signing with Duke. The final confirmation of his duplicity in dealing with Duke and Coach K, however, emerged in an interview that was published on the ESPN website on Feb. 10:

Barnes enjoyed the recruiting process. Despite hundreds of letters and phone calls, he remained thorough and organized.

By the end, Barnes said his decision to go to North Carolina was obvious.

"Honestly, I really didn't have a second choice," Barnes said. "It was that clear-cut."

Under the circumstances, I find it difficult to view this statement as anything other than a deliberate slap in the face to K and Duke.

Now I'm sure that Harrison Barnes could not care less what some Duke fan thinks of him; and frankly, it doesn't matter to me what he thinks. I don't wish him any personal misfortune; but since he's a player for a rival team, I hope our guys defeat him and his team so frequently and so decisively that we leave them and their coaches whimpering and crying in helpless humiliation. But when I see someone say that Barnes is "a great kid," I think there's another person who has been deceived, because what I see from his actual behavior is a kid who has succeeded in projecting a phony image of integrity to mask the fact that he is, in reality, just another prematurely anointed athlete with an overinflated sense of self-worth.

moonpie23
02-27-2010, 01:31 PM
Believing he's simply a great kid going to a rival school does not make me "deceived";)



it does not make you "deceived", but it might show you are "Naive" about how big-time college athletes are advised, counseled, and "handled"....

this isn't some fresh-scrubbed high school kid...this is a kid that has been on the national radar for a long time.....he's got TONS of "professionals" in his ear regarding the media circus that will be his announcement day, to coaches, advisors, and "hanger ons" that are whispering in his ear regarding his soon-to-be NBA MULTI-MILLION-DOLLAR CONTRACT career.

they may be "kids", but they are surrounded by adults giving them "advice and counsel" with regard to EVERY SINGLE MOVE they make...they KNOW what they are doing.....

HWNSNBM didn't just dream up stringing coach k along....it was carefully planned and orchestrated by his family and "advisors" including coach williams.

I wanted him to come to Duke. If i'd found out he treated Roy (or another coach) the way he treated Duke and K, i would have felt the same way.

think about it......if you were a die-hard UNC fan all your life, and you KNEW your hated enemy DUKE was going to try to recruit you, what better way of embarrassing K, the program and the fans by what this brat pulled?

LSanders
02-27-2010, 01:37 PM
I'll acknowledge this is a hot-button issue for me, as reading posts impugning players that we recruited, but lost out on, almost always strikes me as sour grapes. Perhaps that's not true for every individual, but it's certainly the first thing that pops into my mind when reading these types of threads on opponents boards and I, perhaps naively, always hope Duke fans can have a more generous perspective.

This is a kid. 16? 17? He's a kid. And everything I've read from anyone who interacts with him on a daily basis is exceedingly positive. Universally, they say he works hard, takes his academics seriously, and treats his teammates/classmates/opponents with respect.

He chose to attend UNC. He's clearly happy with that choice, and perhaps he felt that the entire package they had to offer really did put them far beyond any other school. They've been an outstanding program as of late; perhaps THE best program of the last decade. Good school. Very attractive women. Great college town. Perhaps he really did feel that, when all was said and done, the "fit" for him was far better than it would have been anywhere else. Or, perhaps it was only a teenager giddy about signing with a program and wanting to communicate just how happy he was.

Either way, I think one has to read into it quite a bit to consider it a slap at Duke. I looked at a lot of programs for grad. school, and Wisconsin was simply a great fit for me - I loved everything about it. That's not a slap in the face of, for example, UVA. UVA is an great school - but it was, for me, no contest. It wasn't even close to Wisconsin for me, and had anyone cared enough about my "recruitment" to ask me on national t.v., I may have said something similar to Harrison. And UVA would continue being a great school and a great fit for a whole lot of folks.

Losing Barnes was very disappointing. I think he would have represented us well. I hope he loses a lot of games in light blue, but I don't feel I've seen anything from him that would change my mind about him being a great kid. And I don't think an objective viewing of his recruitment or his behavior indicates otherwise. Believing he's simply a great kid going to a rival school does not make me "deceived";)


s.i.

Nope ... Sorry ... I'm not buying it. There was too much "bling" with the kid. IMO ... StrayGator nailed it. Obviously, he's a baller, but I've been so impressed for so long with the caliber of human beings K brings in to represent Duke that I think we dodged a bullet. You can chalk that comment up to sour grapes, but it isn't. If Barnes' apparent character matched the image with which he was initially packaged, he would have made and announced his decision in a thoughtful, mature way. THEN, SI, I'd agree with you. But, given what we witnessed, I believe SG did a superb job of describing the entire mess.

UrinalCake
02-27-2010, 01:51 PM
The most interesting part of that article to me what that Drew is dating Eddie Murphy's daughter.

I came in here to say this. This gives the Crazies absolutely limitless potential when the holes come to Cameron. My first thought is Eddie Murphy singing as Buckwheat in his infamous SNL skit. His character in Bowfinger could provide some excellent material as well. I think we'll all have to rewatch The Best of Eddie Murphy's Saturday Night Live as research for this event. I'm normally not in favor of involving a player's family or friends, but I think we can make an exception here. I can't wait!

chrisheery
02-27-2010, 01:54 PM
Isn't that basically what Kris Humphries did?

Humphries apparently became a headache and had a run-in with Coach K before he came to school. He ws told he could pursue another place to play if he wanted to be "the man." So, he did. At least that is what I have heard through a few message board posts. I don't have inside info on that.

I don't think Harrison Barnes is the type of kid that could: a. get on Roy's nerves, b. go back on a such a well publicized committment. Even if it meant having a thorn in his side, Roy wouldn't grant him a release to go to Duke.

UrinalCake
02-27-2010, 01:55 PM
There was too much "bling" with the kid.

I agree... our team this year has amazing chemistry and I would like to see it continue. Our kids really seem to enjoy each other on and off the court, and bringing in an obvious one-and-done'er who felt the need to skype his committment doesn't give me a warm feeling.

UrinalCake
02-27-2010, 01:57 PM
BTW... an underachieving team, a coach who appears to have lost his players, rumors of transfers circulating.... does this remind anyone else of Doherty's last year at the helm?

chrisheery
02-27-2010, 02:00 PM
Kenny Smith doing Roy's bidding, telling us about the injuries all year. Ummm, this team wasn't good when all the players were together. They aren't missing their "leaders" and they still just stink. I love that Coach K doesn't make these kind of excuses in public.

Imagine Jay Bilas at the halftime show saying that Coach K wanted everyone to know that Duke has a lot of injuries. That's been going on for the last three years and we have not gotten any sympathy. Roy just being Roy.

mcdukie
02-27-2010, 02:01 PM
At first I thought that Kendall Marshall wouldn't necessarily be an upgrade from Drew because he is not extremely athletic but I have changed my thoughts. Marshall has his weaknesses but his feel for the game alone make him better than Drew. Also, Marshall is more a pure point than Paulus was. We had better hold our judgement on Marshall and his so-called lack of athleticism. I saw Steve Blake in high school and was laughing because I thought he was so slow. He winded up having a pretty good college career and is making good money in the NBA. All we need to know is we have the better point guard for the next few years over Chapel Hill CC.

CDu
02-27-2010, 02:07 PM
Kenny Smith doing Roy's bidding, telling us about the injuries all year. Ummm, this team wasn't good when all the players were together. They aren't missing their "leaders" and they still just stink. I love that Coach K doesn't make these kind of excuses in public.

Imagine Jay Bilas at the halftime show saying that Coach K wanted everyone to know that Duke has a lot of injuries. That's been going on for the last three years and we have not gotten any sympathy. Roy just being Roy.

If you're watching the UNC/Wake halftime show, then that was Greg Anthony (of UNLV) not Kenny Smith.

But yeah, the injury thing is a somewhat bogus excuse. They still should be at least a middle-of-the-road ACC team.

Duvall
02-27-2010, 02:07 PM
Kenny Smith doing Roy's bidding, telling us about the injuries all year.

Also, he's doing an uncanny imitation of Greg Anthony. Heels are sneaky that way.

jimsumner
02-27-2010, 02:09 PM
Kris Humphries and his father advised the Duke basketball coach that young Mr. Humphries was on the fast track to the NBA and as such, there was an expectation of a certain amount of minutes and a certain number of shots. My understanding is that the word "guarantee" or one of its variants was thrown about.

The Duke coach suggested to Mr. Humphries that he might wish to reconsider his choice of schools. In fact, the coach facilitated this, even invented the fiction that, even though Humphries had signed a national LOI and had been accepted into school, he not been accepted into the program. This ennabled Humphries to play immediately at another school.

Which he did, a single season at Minnesota, where he scored beaucoups of points for a genuinely lousy team. After which he went into the NBA, for a career of no great distinction.

It should be noted that Humphries' freshman season would have overlapped with that of Luol Deng on a roster that also included Chris Duhon, J.J. Redick, Shelden Williams, Daniel Ewing, Shavlik Randolph and Sean Dockery. A Kris Humphries who bought into the program would have been a significant asset to Duke. The Kris Humphries who played at Minnesota? Not so much.

I see few if any parallels between Humphries and Harrison Barnes.

chrisheery
02-27-2010, 02:25 PM
If you're watching the UNC/Wake halftime show, then that was Greg Anthony (of UNLV) not Kenny Smith.

But yeah, the injury thing is a somewhat bogus excuse. They still should be at least a middle-of-the-road ACC team.

Yeah, my bad. Not sure where that came from. I like them both, but I must have convinced myself only a North Carolina alum would pull our some crap like that.

SeattleIrish
02-27-2010, 02:25 PM
I know that relying on the "link?" zinger isn't really a worthy defense, but this kid is about as far from a "handled" recruit as we're going to see for a #1 prospect. He's from frickin' IOWA! Have you seen videos of his team, his coaches, his parents? This kid isn't some transfer to Word of God or Mouth of Wilson or Dematha, or any other basketball factory. He plays with Opie and the rest of his highschool class (I'm serious...check out his team...). Unfortunately, we've all seen the packaged recruit come through the system (John Wall? The one we offered? That's a great example.) and I don't believe it's rational to hang that same lable on Barnes.

There's nothing to suggest this was orchastrated. Or if there is, I've not seen any of it. All I see is conjecture and conspiracy. None of it seems to be supported by one word from anyone who interacts with the kid on a daily basis. From his teachers to his coaches to his peers, it's "what a great guy", "what a humble kid", "no ego", "just works hard and wants to excell", "loves his teammates". Aside from some conspiracy theory, this looks like a kid that gave Duke a serious look and perferred a different program - our rival. Clearly, that's not fun for any of us.

He did a skype thing that was over the top. That's about the extent of it. Perhaps I missed all the "bling", or perhaps you're using a definition of which I'm unfamiliar, but this kid is about the "un-blingiest" #1 recruit I've seen.

I think most of my naivete' has been in assuming that "we" would behave any differently than "they" when confronted with passionate disappointment. We've had a lot of high profile misses, and that sucks. Fortunately, there are some great kids coming. I'm grateful we won't have to see any, "Can you believe how lucky we were to have dodged a bullet with that punk Kyrie kid? We are MUCH better off without him!" posts:eek:. Of course, it's early.

s.i.


it does not make you "deceived", but it might show you are "Naive" about how big-time college athletes are advised, counseled, and "handled"....

this isn't some fresh-scrubbed high school kid...this is a kid that has been on the national radar for a long time.....he's got TONS of "professionals" in his ear regarding the media circus that will be his announcement day, to coaches, advisors, and "hanger ons" that are whispering in his ear regarding his soon-to-be NBA MULTI-MILLION-DOLLAR CONTRACT career.

they may be "kids", but they are surrounded by adults giving them "advice and counsel" with regard to EVERY SINGLE MOVE they make...they KNOW what they are doing.....

HWNSNBM didn't just dream up stringing coach k along....it was carefully planned and orchestrated by his family and "advisors" including coach williams.

I wanted him to come to Duke. If i'd found out he treated Roy (or another coach) the way he treated Duke and K, i would have felt the same way.

think about it......if you were a die-hard UNC fan all your life, and you KNEW your hated enemy DUKE was going to try to recruit you, what better way of embarrassing K, the program and the fans by what this brat pulled?

Stray Gator
02-27-2010, 03:27 PM
I know that relying on the "link?" zinger isn't really a worthy defense, but this kid is about as far from a "handled" recruit as we're going to see for a #1 prospect. He's from frickin' IOWA! Have you seen videos of his team, his coaches, his parents? This kid isn't some transfer to Word of God or Mouth of Wilson or Dematha, or any other basketball factory. He plays with Opie and the rest of his highschool class (I'm serious...check out his team...). Unfortunately, we've all seen the packaged recruit come through the system (John Wall? The one we offered? That's a great example.) and I don't believe it's rational to hang that same lable on Barnes.

There's nothing to suggest this was orchastrated. Or if there is, I've not seen any of it. All I see is conjecture and conspiracy. None of it seems to be supported by one word from anyone who interacts with the kid on a daily basis. From his teachers to his coaches to his peers, it's "what a great guy", "what a humble kid", "no ego", "just works hard and wants to excell", "loves his teammates". Aside from some conspiracy theory, this looks like a kid that gave Duke a serious look and perferred a different program - our rival. Clearly, that's not fun for any of us.

He did a skype thing that was over the top. That's about the extent of it. Perhaps I missed all the "bling", or perhaps you're using a definition of which I'm unfamiliar, but this kid is about the "un-blingiest" #1 recruit I've seen.

I think most of my naivete' has been in assuming that "we" would behave any differently than "they" when confronted with passionate disappointment. We've had a lot of high profile misses, and that sucks. Fortunately, there are some great kids coming. I'm grateful we won't have to see any, "Can you believe how lucky we were to have dodged a bullet with that punk Kyrie kid? We are MUCH better off without him!" posts:eek:. Of course, it's early.

s.i.

Just for the record, I've been following Duke basketball for almost 50 years. I've seen Duke recruit many players, including quite a few that were eventually lost to other programs, including rival schools. So far as I can recall, during all those years, I've never expressed any resentment towards, or reservations about the character of, any recruit who chose another school, either publicly or privately. As I said before, I don't wish Barnes any personal misfortune. And I'm not saying that he is a "bad kid." I'm just saying that, based on what I have observed subsequent to his announcement, I don't believe his behavior is consistent with what I would expect from the kind of "great kid" that those who seek to promote his image make him out to be.

You evidently believe that image is genuine, based on what you have heard and read from those who "interact with the kid on a daily basis." I'm skeptical, because I see evidence that beneath that polished image--which, not surprisingly, is being carefully cultivated to enhance his long-term marketability--lurks a phony, whose real character has now been exposed in unguarded moments. Not that it ultimately matters much, but I suppose time will tell which of us has missed the mark.

In any event, you are certainly welcome to continue assailing my judgment by insinuating that my skepticism about the bona fides of Barnes' image as a "great kid"--based on the specific facts that I cited (unless you choose to believe that the quote in the ESPN column about having no second choice was falsified, and that the photo of Barnes with Roy and the UNC jersey that was displayed during the Skypecast was photoshopped)--is just typical, baseless "sour grapes," which ought to be beneath the dignity of Duke fans. Facts are, of course, subject to interpretation. I just find it difficult to interpret Barnes' behavior and comments as being reasonably reconcilable with what I would expect from a "great kid." And I hope we don't ever see a Duke recruit doing and saying the kind of things we have been seeing from Barnes.

Underdog5
02-27-2010, 03:56 PM
And I hope we don't ever see a Duke recruit doing and saying the kind of things we have been seeing from Barnes.

Well you can thank Barnes then because Duke wanted him bad until HE said no.

Stray Gator
02-27-2010, 04:12 PM
Well you can thank Barnes then because Duke wanted him bad until HE said no.

I would have liked to have his talent on our team; and I have no doubt that he'll make UNC a more formidable opponent. But based on what he revealed of himself during and subsequent to his announcement, I'm satisfied that he made the right decision for him, and I'm not so disappointed that he won't be a part of the Duke program.

MChambers
02-27-2010, 04:23 PM
I would have liked to have his talent on our team; and I have no doubt that he'll make UNC a more formidable opponent. But based on what he revealed of himself during and subsequent to his announcement, I'm satisfied that he made the right decision for him, and I'm not so disappointed that he won't be a part of the Duke program.

You very nicely phrased what I have been thinking for a while.

SeattleIrish
02-27-2010, 04:56 PM
Stray:

As I said in my initial post on the subject, I'm certain the "sour grapes" reaction is not the case for every individual. You weren't the only person to comment on HB's recruitment and all of those comments are not in this tread.

I think we can agree to disagree on the rest of it.

s.i.

Underdog5
02-27-2010, 05:17 PM
I would have liked to have his talent on our team; and I have no doubt that he'll make UNC a more formidable opponent. But based on what he revealed of himself during and subsequent to his announcement" I'm satisfied that he made the right decision for him, and I'm not so disappoi.

I guess I don't follow recruits closely enough to know what he revealed to you but I believe that K spent a lot of time with him and his family and is a very good judge of character (I think even better than his view of talent sometimes). I think all recruits make the right decision for themselves but the fact that K wanted him says enough for me and I am still disappointed that he's going elsewhere... especially to UNC.

slower
02-27-2010, 05:20 PM
You evidently believe that image is genuine, based on what you have heard and read from those who "interact with the kid on a daily basis." I'm skeptical, because I see evidence that beneath that polished image--which, not surprisingly, is being carefully cultivated to enhance his long-term marketability--lurks a phony, whose real character has now been exposed in unguarded moments.

Sounds just like one of the biggest phonies of them all, adultering megalomaniac douchebag Michael Jordan, who also happens to be Harrison Barnes' hero.

Although it doesn't necessarily mean Barnes is the same kind of character. Time will tell.

Oh yeah, let's not forget "Coach Phony" - 'Ol Roy.

-jk
02-27-2010, 05:45 PM
I think all recruits make the right decision for themselves...

And I think your argument fails here. These are kids, and don't really know what's in their best interest. They have all sorts of people - family, friends, coaches, hangers on - offering their advice. And much of it, perhaps most of it, is self interested.

If Barnes had actually been the kid K thought he was, Barnes would have at least acknowledged it had been a tough decision.

And a prior photo shoot suggests there might have been more at play than meets the eye.

-jk

sivartrenrag
02-27-2010, 06:03 PM
Don't quite understand how this became the HB thread, but on topic:

FWIW, I was listening to the radio after the UNC game, apparently someone asked LDII about the rumor. He said it was categorically false, and also made it clear that the source is not to be trusted because he messed up on simple facts like how LDII doesn't actually have a girlfriend.

Underdog5
02-27-2010, 06:23 PM
And I think your argument fails here. These are kids, and don't really know what's in their best interest. They have all sorts of people - family, friends, coaches, hangers on - offering their advice. And much of it, perhaps most of it, is self interested.

If Barnes had actually been the kid K thought he was, Barnes would have at least acknowledged it had been a tough decision.

And a prior photo shoot suggests there might have been more at play than meets the eye.

-jk

I disagree. We might not agree with the decision a kids makes but who am I to even suggest its not what's best for him. If a kid wants to listen to the "advice" he gets from all sorts of people, I think that's a good thing. Especially since they are just "kids".

Perhaps his decision to go to UNC wasn't a tough decision? I have no idea how any kid says no if they get the call from Duke but it happens all the time.

Don't know the details of the prior photo shoot so not sure what it suggests.

Look, I'm only suggesting that the notion that we dodged a bullet by missing is kind of silly. The bullet dodged us and I don't even think it's a bullet. I'm willing to bet he's an exceptional kid with good intentions and it will suck having to hate him because he chose the wrong color blue.

SeattleIrish
02-27-2010, 07:38 PM
This whole episode will certainly cast doubt on our own recruits next time they insinuate that it was an easy choice to pick Duke. Perhaps we'll even need to reevaluate past players and reconsider their charactor flaws. In the light of a new day, it has become the litmus test.

Perhaps it's my naivete' again, but I'm guessing we'll be much quicker to forgive them their sins.

s.i.

Stray Gator
02-27-2010, 08:53 PM
This whole episode will certainly cast doubt on our own recruits next time they insinuate that it was an easy choice to pick Duke. Perhaps we'll even need to reevaluate past players and reconsider their charactor flaws. In the light of a new day, it has become the litmus test.

Perhaps it's my naivete' again, but I'm guessing we'll be much quicker to forgive them their sins.

s.i.

By all means, please identify for us all of Duke's past recruits who made repeated visits to a rival school and talked regularly with its coach for months, leading them to believe that he was genuinely interested in being recruited by them and was seriously considering their offer, while privately posing for a photo with Coach K and his future Duke jersey that could later be used when he made his televised announcement for Duke, after which he gave an interview declaring that there was never really any second choice. While my memory isn't as sharp as it used to be, I'm having trouble recalling any Duke player who engaged in that kind of duplicity. But if you can list for me the Duke players who deliberately strung along another program and then publicly proclaimed that, in fact, that program was never really a serious contender, then I'll join in your condemnation of their behavior.

Duvall
02-27-2010, 09:20 PM
By all means, please identify for us all of Duke's past recruits who made repeated visits to a rival school and talked regularly with its coach for months, leading them to believe that he was genuinely interested in being recruited by them and was seriously considering their offer, while privately posing for a photo with Coach K and his future Duke jersey that could later be used when he made his televised announcement for Duke, after which he gave an interview declaring that there was never really any second choice. While my memory isn't as sharp as it used to be, I'm having trouble recalling any Duke player who engaged in that kind of duplicity.

Well, look. There's at least one Duke player that posed privately for a photo with Coach K and his future Duke jersey during his visit to Duke, and then proceeded to take visits to two other schools and continued to be recruited by them.

This is not a criticism of any Duke player on any level, though I'm sure you'll accuse me of doing just that. Note that there's nothing wrong with any of this. Mostly sure is not completely sure, and it isn't a commitment. A player can think that he knows where he's going, and still want to take his visits and be recruited by other schools and learn about his other options. Indeed, that's the responsible thing to do - it's just due diligence.

I have no interest in defending Barnes or any other Heel. I just think we should be careful about using words like "duplicity" to describe actions more easily explained as the capriciousness of a teenaged boy.

El_Diablo
02-27-2010, 09:40 PM
LDII!

SeattleIrish
02-27-2010, 10:15 PM
A: past Duke recruits who made repeated visits to a rival school?

B: past Duke recruits who talked regularly with rival coaches for months?

C: past Duke recruits who lead rival coaches to believe they were seriously considering said coaches scholarship offers?

D: past Duke recruits who posed for photos with rival coaches?

E: past Duke recruits who implied Duke was the clear and easy choice?


F: past Duke recruits who wore the clothing of a rival school while posing for a photo with a rival coach?

A through D is pretty much what happens for EVERY recruit. I'm assuming there is no need to elaborate, but I think all of those are exceedingly common.

E may not be very common, but I remember quite a few of our signees extolling the virtues of Duke and implying it was a very easy decision. I don't think I really need to research that one, but if somone wants to play the "link?" card, I'll try to get to it.

F? I'm not sure. I don't know if that has happened with a Duke signee or not (although I just saw Duvall remembers at least one). Of the six criteria you asked me to identify, I think 4 of them are almost the rule and one is not uncommon. To me, your argument rests on a recruit taking a photo with a coach while wearing that teams clothing. Meh...I don't see that as telling of anything nefarious, but I can understand that those wanting to find that might rest their case on it; I don't see it as a rationale for assuming a player is "stringing a program along" or any of the other loaded language used. It appears to me to be conjecture and loose straws, almost all of which pull apart to reveal...a recruit who signed elsewhere and left a lot of people disappointed.

Now, I'll offer my apologies if any of my posts on this topic seemed to be attacking anyone or slamming other posters. I tried to use language that took ownership (all the "I think..." or "To me..." stuff), and not speak to definatively or proscriptively. However, I do think my last post was a little snarky and not as civil as it could be.

One of the reasons I've been on this board for as many years as I have is because there IS an emphasis on civility and reasoned discourse. I'm happy to continue this discussion and I think we can do so in the spirit to which this board aspires, and I'll try to check my snarkiness.

s.i.


By all means, please identify for us all of Duke's past recruits who made repeated visits to a rival school and talked regularly with its coach for months, leading them to believe that he was genuinely interested in being recruited by them and was seriously considering their offer, while privately posing for a photo with Coach K and his future Duke jersey that could later be used when he made his televised announcement for Duke, after which he gave an interview declaring that there was never really any second choice. While my memory isn't as sharp as it used to be, I'm having trouble recalling any Duke player who engaged in that kind of duplicity. But if you can list for me the Duke players who deliberately strung along another program and then publicly proclaimed that, in fact, that program was never really a serious contender, then I'll join in your condemnation of their behavior.

loran16
02-27-2010, 10:17 PM
Some of the stuff that the guy put in there is just so ridiculously false. Itís just crazy Ė like my parents are involved in an unhealthy way? Thatís not true at all. They said my girlfriend is an influential figure. I donít have a girlfriend. Why would they put up that?"


This was reported of him earlier today. Soooo yeah.

As for Barnes....why are you vilifying him again? Okay, he didn't come here. I'm very upset about that. But he did nothing WRONG. In fact, given how duke and UNC have done, he might have made the right choice......

Think About it...if you're gonna be a one and done, and looking at the current rosters, which roster are you going to make more of an impact on? Carolina. NOT Duke, which looks like it'll only lose Scheyer, Zoo and Lance (and gains Curry, Irving, Thornton, and Hairston).

He will stand OUT at UNC. He won't as much at Duke.

As for calling it an easy decision, why would he say anything else? In all honesty, after making the decision, he's probably CONVINCED HIMSELF that the decision was easier than it was, so that he doesn't have second doubts. Happens all the time. Especially as UNC sucking this year makes him more likely to stand out next yaer.

banneheim
02-27-2010, 10:25 PM
What if HB pulled a Brandon Jennings? Would that make this all moot?

El_Diablo
02-27-2010, 10:28 PM
What if HB pulled a Brandon Jennings? Would that make this all moot?

What would that make the story of LDII possibly transferring moot?

loran16
02-27-2010, 10:32 PM
What if HB pulled a Brandon Jennings? Would that make this all moot?

Not Happening. All reports listed HB as a good student. The experience in europe is not easy, and while Jennings came out of it well, he still slipped to 10th overall.

Going to UNC he's guarenteed 1st in the draft. The earlier money is not worth it.

Jennings had academic problems.

SeattleIrish
02-27-2010, 10:39 PM
The experience in europe is not easy, and while Jennings came out of it well, he still slipped to 10th overall.

Going to UNC he's guarenteed 1st in the draft. The earlier money is not worth it.



I wouldn't go quite THAT far. Going to UNC won't guarentee him any draft position - but I do agree that it appears there's a lot of pt for him there. That said, I think HB would have had a lot of pt virtually anywhere he went.

s.i.

loran16
02-27-2010, 10:42 PM
I wouldn't go quite THAT far. Going to UNC won't guarentee him any draft position - but I do agree that it appears there's a lot of pt for him there. That said, I think HB would have had a lot of pt virtually anywhere he went.

s.i.

The same might've been thought of Jennings. Europe does things strangely, and HB is more likely to struggle in Europe than in College.

Stray Gator
02-27-2010, 10:57 PM
I originally weighed in here because I took exception to the statement that Barnes is "a great kid." I explained why I came to the conclusion, based on information that only emerged after his announcement, that he is not really the person he was touted to be. That others here do not agree with my evaluation, and continue to believe that Barnes is a great kid who is no different from the players who have come through the Duke program, is okay. Ultimately, it's a matter of opinion, and opinions often differ.

I did not appreciate the insinuation that my opinion of Barnes was a manifestation of "sour grapes," so I elaborated on the background and basis of my opinion to counter that accusation. If I gave offense to anyone here in expressing and defending my opinion on this issue, I apologize. I don't apologize for my opinion that Barnes' behavior is not consistent with that of a young person I would characterize as "a great kid." But I recognize that it's a subjective judgment. So in the interest of moving on, I'll refrain from continuing to discuss or debate my opinion on that subject.

CrazieDUMB
02-27-2010, 11:28 PM
I originally weighed in here because I took exception to the statement that Barnes is "a great kid." I explained why I came to the conclusion, based on information that only emerged after his announcement, that he is not really the person he was touted to be. That others here do not agree with my evaluation, and continue to believe that Barnes is a great kid who is no different from the players who have come through the Duke program, is okay. Ultimately, it's a matter of opinion, and opinions often differ.

I did not appreciate the insinuation that my opinion of Barnes was a manifestation of "sour grapes," so I elaborated on the background and basis of my opinion to counter that accusation. If I gave offense to anyone here in expressing and defending my opinion on this issue, I apologize. I don't apologize for my opinion that Barnes' behavior is not consistent with that of a young person I would characterize as "a great kid." But I recognize that it's a subjective judgment. So in the interest of moving on, I'll refrain from continuing to discuss or debate my opinion on that subject.

Gator, I just want you to know that I do appreciate your opinion. I think that this board really tend to err on the side of safety, especially when referring to 18 yr old kids. I mean, lets face it, no one who is 18, no matter what kind of person they are, deserves to be called a jerk on a public forum. That said, I think your opinion and the points you've made are quite valid; as such, I'm certianly going to look at HB in a different light than I would before.

PhillyDuke
02-28-2010, 06:34 AM
Well, we'd better get our "Hater-aid" ready because HB presents an incredible match-up problem for us next year. He's 6' 8'' and WAAAY more athletic than any of our bigs; and is just as quick as, but a LOT stronger than all of our perimeter players--plus he's supposed to have a good jumper as well. We need someone who can shut him down!

slower
02-28-2010, 06:43 AM
I mean, lets face it, no one who is 18, no matter what kind of person they are, deserves to be called a jerk on a public forum.

What do you mean "no matter what kind of person they are"? What if that kind of person IS a jerk? BTW, I'm not referring to Barnes at all. I didn't realize there's an age limit for publicly calling somebody a jerk.

I hope Drew DOES transfer. Let's keep bad news and discontent front and center for the Holes. I wish Drew the best as a human being, but hope for nothing but chaos and disappointment for the team and its fans.

Faison1
02-28-2010, 07:16 AM
Recruiting is brutal. Trying to judge a kid's character by watching a fierce battle between two rivals is not fair. While I don't condone anything HB did, I don't think it's unusual by any stretch of the imagination.

In the recent past, two names that come to mind involving jerseys and Duke are KI and Quincy Miller (wearing UK garb). Something tells me Kenny Boynton had a similar experience. It's just the way it is.

I agree with Stray Gator that what HB did seemed pretty deceptive, but who knows what went on behind the scenes.

How Coach K keeps his sanity, I don't know. What I do know is the pipeline is looking pretty good these days, especially if we can land just a few of them.

Indoor66
02-28-2010, 07:31 AM
How Coach K keeps his sanity, I don't know. What I do know is the pipeline is looking pretty good these days, especially if we can land just a few of them.

I think Coach K as a little thicker skin than some of the posters here.

wilko
02-28-2010, 07:57 AM
For the Holes - I hope they never win anything ever again. Not 1 single game. If transferring furthers that goal, may the door not hit them in posterior.

As far as Barnes, Big felix come on down....

El_Diablo
02-28-2010, 08:00 AM
Seriously, can we stay on topic? This isn't a Harrison Barnes recruiting thread. That thread has been locked--and for good reason. If you want to carry on that conversation regardless, please copy the post you want to respond to, then open a new thread with it. Right now, if you google "Larry Drew transferring"...the second result that comes up is this thread. Everyone who clicks on it just sees a bunch of people complaining about Harrison Barnes or complaining about people who complain about Harrison Barnes.

El_Diablo
02-28-2010, 08:02 AM
As for LDII:

Drew Denies Transfer Rumors

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/949716.html

Kewlswim
02-28-2010, 02:16 PM
I originally weighed in here because I took exception to the statement that Barnes is "a great kid." I explained why I came to the conclusion, based on information that only emerged after his announcement, that he is not really the person he was touted to be. That others here do not agree with my evaluation, and continue to believe that Barnes is a great kid who is no different from the players who have come through the Duke program, is okay. Ultimately, it's a matter of opinion, and opinions often differ.

I did not appreciate the insinuation that my opinion of Barnes was a manifestation of "sour grapes," so I elaborated on the background and basis of my opinion to counter that accusation. If I gave offense to anyone here in expressing and defending my opinion on this issue, I apologize. I don't apologize for my opinion that Barnes' behavior is not consistent with that of a young person I would characterize as "a great kid." But I recognize that it's a subjective judgment. So in the interest of moving on, I'll refrain from continuing to discuss or debate my opinion on that subject.

Hi,

I think Barnes is not what we were initially led to believe or I too would say he is a great kid who got away, next play. Instead, I am willing to say: "Barnes is a great high school player who got away, next play." That has nothing to do with sour grapes. I had plenty to say about Christian's personality while at Duke. I loved him as a player, but I never thought he was a "great kid." He was a kid who needed to do a lot of growing up. By the way, Christian seems to have become a much better person since his days at Duke.

GO DUKE!

sivartrenrag
02-28-2010, 02:58 PM
Why are people still talking about Harrison Barnes?

wilko
02-28-2010, 03:08 PM
I think its more in the spirit of what would ruin Roy's Thutmose III style mission of expunging Duke's accomplishments from memory... (a'la Hatshepsut)

Whatever brings them pain, anguish and derials that plan...
HB cold feet, LD2 transerring, Multiple league defections STD's, scandal......

WHATEVER brings them pain IS the whole point.

LD2 is largely irrelvant...
If LD2 was at Clemson or VT would we really have this much pent up angst evidencing itself here.

No way!!

SoCalDukeFan
02-28-2010, 05:29 PM
We have an ACC game today.
We are leading the ACC this year.
If we win the ACC Tournament we should be a 1 seed this year (no worse than a 2) this year.
We have a 7 foot tall senior playing the best basketball of his career this year.
We have a senior guard who is showing what a great basketball player he is this year.

And you guys what to write about a UNC recruit?

SoCal

NovaScotian
02-28-2010, 10:44 PM
just a quick question - how are rumors about who will be hired when ted roof is fired not allowed, while rumors like this are placed on the home page for this site?

ice-9
03-01-2010, 05:23 AM
Now that LDII has categorically denied the rumor -- is it time to close this thread?

camion
03-01-2010, 06:26 AM
Now that LDII has categorically denied the rumor -- is it time to close this thread?

An explicit denial just means there's a coverup. - Oliver Stone. ;)

Devilsfan
03-01-2010, 06:53 AM
He's gone. Just ask his dad.