MBB: Duke @ UVa Sunday Pre-Game Thread

[sagegrouse]

The Devils take on the Wahoos Sunday night in Charlottesville.

The Hoos have three more games to salvage what started as a promising ACC season: Duke at home; BC on the road and the regular season finale with Maryland at home.

Some questions to ponder:

1. Can Duke shut down Sylvan Landesburg? And who gets to defend the 6-6 guard? UVa seems to have struggled offensively because teams have focused on Sylvan. But he scored 27 points IIRC against Miami Tuesday night.

2. Can Zoubs continue his strong play against the relatively weak Cavalier front line? And who else inside will provide offensive punch?

3. And the big question: will the shots fall for the three S's?

sagegrouse

[Matches]

Landesburg is a big matchup problem for us. He's a matchup problem for just about everyone, of course, but particularly for us. Given the relative weakness of his supporting cast, though, we only really need to contain him, not stop him completely. If we can hold him to 18-20 pts and make him take a lot of shots to get those points, we should be fine.

[94duke]

Could we see defense by committee again? I seem to remember us doing this a lot this year, last night included. I think we will probably have Nolan, Jon, and Kyle rotating on him. Lance can cover him, too, on switches. Hopefully we can throw him off by giving Landesberg different looks with which to deal.

[thewiseben]

I'm sure Coach K will make a more reasonable/wiser decision than I, but it seemed to make sense to at least start out guarding Landesberg with Lance. I feel like he's the only guy with the lateral quickness besides Nolan to keep up with Landesberg's moves.

The only reason I'd at all be worried about Nolan Smith on Landesberg is the latter's height. 6'6" is awful tall for Nolan to be guarding (though he'll have to do it in the pros eventually). It seems like Landesberg would be able to post-up on Nolan all night long.

[JasonEvans]

Virginia simply does not have the offensive firepower to keep up with Duke. he Cavs have not scored 70 points since January. Heck, they have only gotten to 60 points in 3 of the past 7 games.

This means that even if Duke is shooting horribly from the field, Virginia will not be able to pull away. Duke's lowest scoring outout of the past month is 64 points against UNC. Virginia's best scoring output is 66 in a game where they got throttled by Maryland.

Virginia had a wonderful start to the ACC season, but reality has set in and the reality is that this is simply not a very talented roster by ACC standards. They have exactly one player who would even be in the top 8 rotation at Duke, Landesberg.

Look, I am not trying to put them down too much. They are playing at home and I am sure they will bring max effort to this game, but the bottom line is that unless Virgina scores much more than they usually do and Duke struggles even more from the field than it usually does, this is a double-digit game.

--Jason "Duke is just going to own the boards against these guys" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I'm sure Coach K will make a more reasonable/wiser decision than I, but it seemed to make sense to at least start out guarding Landesberg with Lance. I feel like he's the only guy with the lateral quickness besides Nolan to keep up with Landesberg's moves.

The only reason I'd at all be worried about Nolan Smith on Landesberg is the latter's height. 6'6" is awful tall for Nolan to be guarding (though he'll have to do it in the pros eventually). It seems like Landesberg would be able to post-up on Nolan all night long.

I have not watched him extensively, but I don't think Landesberg is very comfortable as a back-to-the-basket post player. He prefers creating his own shot off the dribble.

I think we'll see Duke try several different looks on Landesberg. Smith, Lance, and Scheyer will all guard him at times (I think it will mostly be Smith and Scheyer though). It is also worth noting that the way Duke switches, the guy who starts on him each posessions won't necessarily be the guy who guards him when he takes his shots.

-Jason "I wanna know who on Virginia is going to try to guard Singler-- whew, is he gonna be a matchup problem for them!" Evans

[MChambers]

I'm sure Coach K will make a more reasonable/wiser decision than I, but it seemed to make sense to at least start out guarding Landesberg with Lance. I feel like he's the only guy with the lateral quickness besides Nolan to keep up with Landesberg's moves.

The only reason I'd at all be worried about Nolan Smith on Landesberg is the latter's height. 6'6" is awful tall for Nolan to be guarding (though he'll have to do it in the pros eventually). It seems like Landesberg would be able to post-up on Nolan all night long.

Smith started on Vasquez, who is about the same size. But I agree that there will be a lot of switches, so I don't think it's a big deal.

If Landesberg tries to post, I expect one of Duke's big to rotate down. It's not like UVA's big are dynamite outside shooters. Scott is shooting 75% from three-point land, but on 4 shots.

[fisheyes]

I certainly hope that the team is not looking past this game!

[GODUKEGO]

We have got to start hitting our shots. In the last 5 games, we are shooting at a dismal 35.7%. It is only the 3's that are saving us and Zoub's rebounds ( last 4 games: avg. 25 minutes and 12.2 boards). But we all know you live and die by the three. Remember what happen in the Villanova game last year, 26.7% from the field. I am waiting for us to get out of this slump. It is peak time, BABY!!!

[loldevilz]

We have got to start hitting our shots. In the last 5 games, we are shooting at a dismal 35.7%. It is only the 3's that are saving us and Zoub's rebounds ( last 4 games: avg. 25 minutes and 12.2 boards). But we all know you live and die by the three. Remember what happen in the Villanova game last year, 26.7% from the field. I am waiting for us to get out of this slump. It is peak time, BABY!!!

Agreed

[dukelifer]

We have got to start hitting our shots. In the last 5 games, we are shooting at a dismal 35.7%. It is only the 3's that are saving us and Zoub's rebounds ( last 4 games: avg. 25 minutes and 12.2 boards). But we all know you live and die by the three. Remember what happen in the Villanova game last year, 26.7% from the field. I am waiting for us to get out of this slump. It is peak time, BABY!!!

UNC 32% won by 10
MD 41% won by 21
Miami 42% won by 7
VT 29% won by 12
Tulsa 35% won by 18

Despite the poor shooting we are winning by an average of 13+ pts- and that is considered a slump. A lot of teams would like to be in that slump.

[HateCarolina]

Smith started on Vasquez, who is about the same size. But I agree that there will be a lot of switches, so I don't think it's a big deal.

If Landesberg tries to post, I expect one of Duke's big to rotate down. It's not like UVA's big are dynamite outside shooters. Scott is shooting 75% from three-point land, but on 4 shots.

Landensburg and Vasquez are both tall guards, but that's about all they have in common. Sylvan really is an excellent guard with speed...he is going to be a match up problem for us, but unless he pulls a Kobe on us and puts up 60 by himself, then I think we can afford to let him score as long as we keep all of their other players from scoring (I know this is elementary).

If we do not win this game, then please know that I have enjoyed posting here on the board, but I will have to find a short pier to take a long walk off of since I grew up in Richmond and know that I will be bombarded with calls from home. When we lost to VCU in the 1st round I wanted to change my number.

Go Blue Devils...kick some Wahoo arse!!!

[DukeUsul]

We have got to start hitting our shots. In the last 5 games, we are shooting at a dismal 35.7%. It is only the 3's that are saving us and Zoub's rebounds ( last 4 games: avg. 25 minutes and 12.2 boards). But we all know you live and die by the three. Remember what happen in the Villanova game last year, 26.7% from the field. I am waiting for us to get out of this slump. It is peak time, BABY!!!

Last year's team couldn't buy an o-rebound against Villanova. This year's team would get a lot of second chance points on them.

I agree, I'd love to see more shots go down. But thank goodness this team is equipped to still win when they don't.

[-bdbd]

Being in northern VA the media theme is that UVA is fading badly and has essentially given up hope in the NCAA's this year (after 3 weeks ago taking it as a given, while still hoiping for an ACC championship). If you are the UVA coaches - the HC is a strong candidate for coach of the year in ACC - what do you think you tell these guys?? Yep, you tell them that this "is your last gasp good hope for making the tournament...beat Duke and all things change..."

I think we'll see a bit of an early rotation on Landesburg -- first Smith, then LT, the Jon. and maybe some Kyle...TBD...see what works best. Hey - anybody from no VA going? Looking to maybe link up with some felllow Dukies...

:)

[cptnflash]

Virginia simply does not have the offensive firepower to keep up with Duke. he Cavs have not scored 70 points since January. Heck, they have only gotten to 60 points in 3 of the past 7 games.

This means that even if Duke is shooting horribly from the field, Virginia will not be able to pull away. Duke's lowest scoring outout of the past month is 64 points against UNC. Virginia's best scoring output is 66 in a game where they got throttled by Maryland.


Keep in mind that UVA plays by far the slowest tempo in the ACC, and one of the slowest in the country (#317 out of 347), so merely comparing points per game is misleading. On a per possession basis they're almost exactly on par with Wake offensively, but UVA plays way, way slower. It's actually on defense where UVA is weakest, in that they don't force turnovers and tend not to hold opponents to a low shooting percentage. It'll be interesting to see if we can rediscover our shooting touch against them. This will be about the worst shooting defense we'll face from here on out (other than Round 1 of the NCAA's), so if we can't hit shots on Sunday... :confused:

Bottom line is that there is a huge talent gap here, so if Duke can force the tempo a bit the dramatic difference in efficiency margin should carry the day in the end.

[MChambers]

I don't remember Duke ever shooting well in Charlottesville. It's probably happened, but not often.

[GODUKEGO]

UNC 32% won by 10
MD 41% won by 21
Miami 42% won by 7
VT 29% won by 12
Tulsa 35% won by 18

Despite the poor shooting we are winning by an average of 13+ pts- and that is considered a slump. A lot of teams would like to be in that slump.

Well let's see, where do I start. Oh yeah, 3 out of the 5 games were at home. The only away games were at Miami and Carolina. You, CTG, myself and any two others could beat them. We know how bad both of them are this year. Oh yeah, none of the five are ranked. Again, if we should like this on a neutral court against a rank team, we will lose. Because they will not be shooting 35%. Again, have you blocked the last year's Villanova out of your memory. I have tried but can not. Let me know your secret!!

[Steve68]

Well let's see, where do I start. Oh yeah, 3 out of the 5 games were at home. The only away games were at Miami and Carolina. You, CTG, myself and any two others could beat them. We know how bad both of them are this year. Oh yeah, none of the five are ranked. Again, if we should like this on a neutral court against a rank team, we will lose. Because they will not be shooting 35%. Again, have you blocked the last year's Villanova out of your memory. I have tried but can not. Let me know your secret!!

He was talking about playing against Virginia this year with this year's team, not about playing against a ranked opponent and certainly not about playing Villanova last year with last year's team. I really don't understand this obsession with the NCAA tournament. Please, let's just take one game at a time.

[ReformedAggie]

Zoub rebounds everything, Mason gets going, Miles does two reverse dunks, the S's get their usual share, then we go home happy.

[bird]

We have got to start hitting our shots. In the last 5 games, we are shooting at a dismal 35.7%. It is only the 3's that are saving us and Zoub's rebounds ( last 4 games: avg. 25 minutes and 12.2 boards). But we all know you live and die by the three. Remember what happen in the Villanova game last year, 26.7% from the field. I am waiting for us to get out of this slump. It is peak time, BABY!!!

Adding to your list of things that are "saving" Duke: defense, lack of turnovers, ability to get to and convert at the foul line.

Basically, just about every metric shows Duke playing at a high, championship level except shooting percentage.

[MChambers]

Adding to your list of things that are "saving" Duke: defense, lack of turnovers, ability to get to and convert at the foul line.

Basically, just about every metric shows Duke playing at a high, championship level except shooting percentage.

Duke doesn't really do a good job of getting to the line this year. We're ranked 159 in FTA/FGA this year, very unusually. We do convert when we're there, as you say.

[GODUKEGO]

He was talking about playing against Virginia this year with this year's team, not about playing against a ranked opponent and certainly not about playing Villanova last year with last year's team. I really don't understand this obsession with the NCAA tournament. Please, let's just take one game at a time.

He was referring to what slump, when we won those five games. Please re-read or read my comment about those five games. Obsession with the NCAA tournament, we are three games away from two tournaments on neutral sites. Being ranked possibly # 4 this Monday is useless if we lose in four weeks in the sweet sixteen or hopefully elite eight shooting at this percentage. Our field goal percentage is dropping with crunch time right around the corner. 35% ain't going to get it done with the competition getting tougher and tougher each game. With Zoub's emergence, this team is capable of some really exciting things over the next hopefully 12 games!! But we have to shoot better than 35%!!!!!!!!

[dukelifer]

Well let's see, where do I start. Oh yeah, 3 out of the 5 games were at home. The only away games were at Miami and Carolina. You, CTG, myself and any two others could beat them. We know how bad both of them are this year. Oh yeah, none of the five are ranked. Again, if we should like this on a neutral court against a rank team, we will lose. Because they will not be shooting 35%. Again, have you blocked the last year's Villanova out of your memory. I have tried but can not. Let me know your secret!!

Sure- I have forgotten Villanova- that was last year and last year's team. Shooting is just half of the game. Duke must play D and also hit free throws- two things they have done well consistently. Now you are right Duke has not played a ranked team. But they simply play who is on their schedule. It is up to those teams to be better. UNC should have been better. Miami was supposed to be better. Not sure why Maryland is not ranked but are not. So what can you do.

As for NCAA- it is all about how you play that weekend. Duke is capable of shooting 50% or better and could on any given weekend. But you just have to wait and see. How they shoot that weekend has nothing to do with how they shoot right now- a lot can change from now until then. I do not expect major changes in how they play O - so we will see if the shots drop. I still do not get why so many folks put so much value on Duke getting to the final 8 or final 4 as if that is the only mark of a good season. For me, losing in the sweet 16 or final 8 or final 4 or final game are the same to me. Duke has not won another NCAA championship and then you have to wait until next year.

[Azdukefan]

For me, losing in the sweet 16 or final 8 or final 4 or final game are the same to me. Duke has not won another NCAA championship and then you have to wait until next year.

Actually, this means you will have seen a few less games. I'm not sure how you view it but I want to watch as many Duke games as possible. If the only gauge is winning a national championships then it sounds like we have only had three successful seasons. For me, I want to go as far as we can as this means I get to watch meaningful basketball further into March and possibly April.

[RoyalBlue08]

I hope the Duke players are watching TV today. Example after example of the hungrier teams beating the top teams. Hopefully Duke can maintain their intensity for this one as the season is winding down.

[Bob Green]

Duke is first in the ACC in 3-point field goal percentage (.391) and 3-point field goals made (216 total/7.7 per game), while Virginia is last in 3-point field goal percentage defense (.353).

Duke is first in the ACC in offensive rebounds (15.3 per game) and rebounding margin (+6.5), while Virginia is last in offensive rebounds (10.7 per game) and 10th in rebounding margin (+1.5).

All the stats are here: http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2009-2010/confldrs.html

Duke needs to take and make 3-pointers and clean up the glass to win this game.

[Saratoga2]

After watching the #1 & #2 teams fall in away games, I draw the conclusion that their opponents, Tenn & OS played with great intensity. We had better be prepared for the same kind of thing against UV or else we could fall as well. Got to be determined from the start and play our game.

[78Devil]

Amen, Saratoga 2. Today should cause the team to make sure they take care of business and give their full attention to UVa.

Also seeing UNC play pretty well at Wake Forest reminds us not to take them for granted either.

Anyway you look at it, the road to winning the ACC is never easy.

[dukelifer]

Actually, this means you will have seen a few less games. I'm not sure how you view it but I want to watch as many Duke games as possible. If the only gauge is winning a national championships then it sounds like we have only had three successful seasons. For me, I want to go as far as we can as this means I get to watch meaningful basketball further into March and possibly April.
Well we have had many successful seasons- many ACC championships (regular season and tourney) and only three successful NCAA tourneys. But losing the first final four game does not make the season more successful than losing in the sweet sixteen. I agree that I prefer to watch Duke as far as they can go- but losing every year in the final four is not more satisfying than losing every year in the sweet sixteen- believe me.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

uva is 3-0 vs ranked teams this year

[Bob Green]

uva is 3-0 vs ranked teams this year

Virginia defeated #18 Georgia Tech 82-75 on January 13. Please name the other two ranked teams the Cavaliers have defeated.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=258

[chrisheery]

From what I have seen, Landesberg is not super quick. He's strong with the ball and changes speeds well. He has good body control and finishes well with a variety of shots. I have no doubts that Jon Scheyer can guard this guy. I think Singler could do a pretty good job too. I think Lance could guard him as well. I think Nolan could as well. I don't see why he is such a matchup problem. The only way he uses his height is when he is finishing and I hope we solve that by having big guys rotate into position to block his shot or take a charge or at least make him take a tough shot.

Proof Scheyer can guard him: (first half, it was over in the second half)

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=3659319

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I seen this record on espn, college gameday. without research i can't name the other two.

[Kedsy]

Well we have had many successful seasons- many ACC championships (regular season and tourney) and only three successful NCAA tourneys. But losing the first final four game does not make the season more successful than losing in the sweet sixteen. I agree that I prefer to watch Duke as far as they can go- but losing every year in the final four is not more satisfying than losing every year in the sweet sixteen- believe me.

Sorry, but I don't believe you. To the extent you're saying the season should be judged on its entirety and not just the last game, I completely agree. Last year we had a great 30 win season with an ACC championship and happened to lose in the NCAA tourney. It was still a great season. I refuse to judge any team's performance on its last tournament game.

However, to say that the only satisfying NCAA tournament performance is a national championship is a little bit ridiculous to me. Making the Final Four is a very big deal. I've been watching Duke for more than 30 years and it is MUCH more satisfying to go to the Final Four than it is to lose in the Sweet Sixteen. Frankly I can't fathom how any fan could say differently.

[dukelifer]

Sorry, but I don't believe you. To the extent you're saying the season should be judged on its entirety and not just the last game, I completely agree. Last year we had a great 30 win season with an ACC championship and happened to lose in the NCAA tourney. It was still a great season. I refuse to judge any team's performance on its last tournament game.

However, to say that the only satisfying NCAA tournament performance is a national championship is a little bit ridiculous to me. Making the Final Four is a very big deal. I've been watching Duke for more than 30 years and it is MUCH more satisfying to go to the Final Four than it is to lose in the Sweet Sixteen. Frankly I can't fathom how any fan could say differently.

Only because Duke finally won. IF Duke had gone to all those FFs and never won one- I am pretty sure you would not have been satisfied. And I am pretty sure you did not feel satisfied up to 1990. Now that they won- getting back would be nice - because it has been a while - but if they continued to get there and continued to lose- I am not sure it would be very satisfying. Ask the UCLA fans how satisfied they have been in the past few years.

[Newton_14]

Only because Duke finally won. IF Duke had gone to all those FFs and never won one- I am pretty sure you would not have been satisfied. And I am pretty sure you did not feel satisfied up to 1990. Now that they won- getting back would be nice - because it has been a while - but if they continued to get there and continued to lose- I am not sure it would be very satisfying. Ask the UCLA fans how satisfied they have been in the past few years.

Making the FF is a huge achievement and means having won a regional championship. I see it as a big thing to win a regional championship and make that FF. Far better than losing in the Sweet 16. Even losing in the Elite 8 is better than losing in the Sweet 16. I think it will be a great accomplishment for this group of kids if they make the Elite 8 and should they make the FF it will be a really great accomplishment and quiet a lot of critics who have no faith in this team due to mainly the results of past teams which is more than unfair. Mason, Ryan, and Andre have never lost a NCAA tourney game. They have a chance to help their team make their own mark. I am sure it would mean the world to them to make the FF regardless of if they end up winning the big prize.

[Kedsy]

Only because Duke finally won. IF Duke had gone to all those FFs and never won one- I am pretty sure you would not have been satisfied. And I am pretty sure you did not feel satisfied up to 1990. Now that they won- getting back would be nice - because it has been a while - but if they continued to get there and continued to lose- I am not sure it would be very satisfying. Ask the UCLA fans how satisfied they have been in the past few years.

Well you're completely wrong about how I felt up until 1990. There's a difference in being disappointed that you can get so close so often but are not able to take the final step, and in being dissatisfied. During my four years at Duke we lost our opening NCAAT game, made the Final Eight, went to the NIT, and had a losing season. First of all, making the Final Eight was huge and wonderful and exciting, even though we didn't go to the Final Four or win the championship. And trust me, when we made those Final Fours in 86, 88, 89, and 90, I was thrilled and not at all dissatisfied even for a fraction of a second.

If you honestly feel that a loss in the championship game is the same as a loss in the Sweet 16, I'm just flabbergasted. The idea that there are only two outcomes, champion or loser, is totally foreign to me.

[gumbomoop]

.... things that are "saving" Duke: defense, lack of turnovers, ability to get to and convert at the foul line.

Basically, just about every metric shows Duke playing at a high, championship level except shooting percentage.

This point by bird bears repeating, as it's perhaps a key difference between those who see this Duke team as glass-half-empty v. those who see it as glass-3-quarters-full. Bird, and virtually all who've posted on the "Dork polls" thread, rightfully remind us that among the things that make this Duke group a "weirdly" [another thread] efficient team are these several impressive metrics that do seem to be making up for mediocre shooting %s.

That is, [B]something must explain why both the regular and "dork" polls have Duke rising. Those somethings bird points out here; and to the list in the quote tag, one would add rebounding, a big difference in our effectiveness this season.

It's certainly true that in any particular game, a really bad shooting night might do us in; and by this point in the season it's not crazy to be thinking about NCAAT, though it's sensible, too, to focus on UVA. But to focus only, only, only on shooting woes, the "dorks" have masterfully persuaded me, is to miss some intriguing metrics that explain our "weird"-but-very-substantial strengths.

So long as Duke does not merely "show up" this eve in Charlottesville [think Wake yesterday], Duke is very likely to win [see Jason Evans, post #5 above, for straightforward analysis]. Yes, I do recall the NCSt game, and trust that our guys do as well.

[Saratoga2]

Having spent the day watching Kentucky, Kansas and Syracuse play, like a true basketball junkie, I found the transition offense and defense of those teams interesting to compare with Duke. I think how well we play defense will define our progress against Virginia and the games going forward.

Defense:
Duke has an excellent halfcourt man on man defense, which swwitches very well and hedges to make penetration more difficult. We restrict the passing lanes and get some turnovers by doing that. Our rebounding has gotten better and our current bench players defense is improving, if not fully there yet.

What we seem to struggle with is transition defense in three areas. The first is when Scheyer, Singler or Dawkins takes a 3 pointer from the corner. When the opponent rebounds and moves to transition offense, we are typically not getting enough players back to adequately defend. The second, is when we miss a free throw. For some reason, our guard has not been awake enough to see the opponent headed down the floor until it is too late. This hasn't occurred very often, but enough to make you wonder why there isn't a sense of alertness. The third is when we try to apply a press. Typically we were using Lance or Mason to help in the opponents end, and when the press is beaten, there is no way those players can get back. Wee do much better when either Smith or Scheyer or sometimes Singler slow the opponent when bringing the ball up court, and allowing us to get into our halfcourt defense.

One final point about defense is that I have felt Mason and to some extend Miles are not getting back on defense fast enough. They don't have the PT right now so they can't be that tired. We need them to play more like Lance, who always gets back very quickly.

I thought Kansas played defense in a similar manner to us, whereas Kentucky while very effective at times, seems to get lost on defense or take time off. Syracuse is the gold standard and limited a good Villanova team after a slow start. Their match 2-3 zone is very effective, and they are a quick, long and physically imposing team. Not much of the helter skelter defense and press with any of them.


Offense:
Duke really hasn't shown much ability to get points off transition except off of steals. While a good experienced team, we have little speed other than Nolan. We need to get our points from the halfcourt motion offense with screening and we need second chance points from effective rebounding. We were getting to the basket fairly effectively, but recently Scheyer and Smith have not been converting a lot of those in close. Still we generate enough points provided we can hit a reasonable % of outside shots and get to the free throw line.

I thought Syracuse looked the best with the transition offense and that was against a small by very quick Villanova team. Syracuse rebounds well, gets the ball into transition quickly and at least 3 players are running. They take some risks and did have a few turnovers but they got a lot of their offense off of transition. Kentucky does it diffenently, with John Wall who takes the ball downcourt as fast as anyone and either scores, gets fouled or makes a good pass to others who run with him. Bledsoe is also quick but is prone to make the offensive foul or other mistake. Kansas seemed more like Duke in that they have speed in Collins and a fast wing and perhaps a little more speed at guard, but their big player is not all that fast getting down. OS had the team who were quick enough and determined enough to stop them.


What my takeaway from the day was is that Duke needs to play its halfcourt defensive game and slow the ball coming up the court without pressing. We need our non starting bigs to commit to get up the court quickly and rebound with determination.

On offense, we need to concentrate on the halfcourt motion, which is our strength. Rebounding is a key and working for the open shot. While I question the value of taking 3's from the corner, we will need to take 3's to loosen the defense. We also need Smith, Scheyer and Singler to get to the basket and either draw fouls. make the basket or dish back out to open shooters.

Taking Landersberg out of his comfort zone today will be the winning strategy.

[dukelifer]

Well you're completely wrong about how I felt up until 1990. There's a difference in being disappointed that you can get so close so often but are not able to take the final step, and in being dissatisfied. During my four years at Duke we lost our opening NCAAT game, made the Final Eight, went to the NIT, and had a losing season. First of all, making the Final Eight was huge and wonderful and exciting, even though we didn't go to the Final Four or win the championship. And trust me, when we made those Final Fours in 86, 88, 89, and 90, I was thrilled and not at all dissatisfied even for a fraction of a second.

If you honestly feel that a loss in the championship game is the same as a loss in the Sweet 16, I'm just flabbergasted. The idea that there are only two outcomes, champion or loser, is totally foreign to me.

My original point is that the outcome of the NCAAT is not the only measure of a good or even great season- and I think we agree on this. I think you can measure success in many ways. But still think that the thrill was that Duke was developing an elite program over the years you mentioned and this was one sign but not the only sign of consistency. But without a championship- Duke's elite status never would have been realized. But once you get to the elite level- you are measured by championships not just getting close. There are many here who have a hard time keeping from thinking that the ending point of the NCAAT determines the value of the team. I think you have to look at the whole season. You say you are flabbergasted that some might think that there are only two outcomes- champion or loser. But- in Sports- you ultimately are measured by championships. For some, the regular season means nothing, the ACC championship means nothing- it is all about how far you get in the final tourney as if the elite 8 is greater than the sweet 16. I don't agree. The matchups and some luck play a big role here. I value all the championships the team wins that are in front of them during a season. The final Tourney is a part but in the end you have to win it to claim its true value- if you don;t then you hope that the teams learns from the experience- get's hungrier and gets better. Getting to the final 4 and losing may make a team hungrier and better and perhaps that is what folks are thinking- I am not so sure. But if Duke was not to get past the first game of the final four for the next 30 years in a row (as Duke seems to be having a hard time getting past the sweet 16 game) and never win an ACC regular season or tourney championship- I am not sure that would be very satisfying.

[Steve68]

He was referring to what slump, when we won those five games. Please re-read or read my comment about those five games. Obsession with the NCAA tournament, we are three games away from two tournaments on neutral sites. Being ranked possibly # 4 this Monday is useless if we lose in four weeks in the sweet sixteen or hopefully elite eight shooting at this percentage. Our field goal percentage is dropping with crunch time right around the corner. 35% ain't going to get it done with the competition getting tougher and tougher each game. With Zoub's emergence, this team is capable of some really exciting things over the next hopefully 12 games!! But we have to shoot better than 35%!!!!!!!!

He wasn't referring to what slump - he was saying that there are more things to a game than offensive shooting percentages. We won those five games despite poor shooting percentages and that was his point. Your point about the level of competition is well taken and, of course, we'd all like to see us shooting better than 35%. However, if we can continue to win by shooting 35%, I think we would all take it. I believe that we are a better shooting team than that, so I only see things as getting better. My point was more about that kind of positive thinking rather than concentrating on what happened last year or what might happen weeks from now. This team is too much fun to watch to continually worry about Sweet Sixteen or Great Eight games at this point in the season. Enjoy the ride and save the "It's Over" type thinking for when it's actually over.

[brevity]

I agree that I prefer to watch Duke as far as they can go- but losing every year in the final four is not more satisfying than losing every year in the sweet sixteen- believe me.

I'm sort of with you on this. The oh-so-close drought of 1986-1990 created a unique kind of agony that was, at that time, probably more significant than the not-so-close drought of 2005-2009 we're experiencing now.

But then you lost me when you elaborated. Sorry.

Back to Virginia:


uva is 3-0 vs ranked teams this year


Virginia defeated #18 Georgia Tech 82-75 on January 13. Please name the other two ranked teams the Cavaliers have defeated.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=258


I seen this record on espn, college gameday. without research i can't name the other two.

You were given a link to quickly research your point. Had you chosen to click it, you would have seen that Virginia has that 1 win over a then-ranked team and no others. They also beat UNC, which had been ranked earlier in the season, but was 13-7 at gametime.

(I felt that last line was worth revisiting.)

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Adding to your list of things that are "saving" Duke: defense, lack of turnovers, ability to get to and convert at the foul line.

Basically, just about every metric shows Duke playing at a high, championship level except shooting percentage.


Agreed. We haven't played poor defense since the Georgetown game and I don't know how many turnovers we've been averaging, but it has to be low. They play hard every game and the rebounding/defense is indicative of that. If we were shooting a better % offensively, we would get more pub for the #1 ranking. People still see us as a flawed team because of our inconsistency on the offensive end.

[Kedsy]

My original point is that the outcome of the NCAAT is not the only measure of a good or even great season- and I think we agree on this.

Yes, we agree.


I think you can measure success in many ways. But still think that the thrill was that Duke was developing an elite program over the years you mentioned and this was one sign but not the only sign of consistency. But without a championship- Duke's elite status never would have been realized. But once you get to the elite level- you are measured by championships not just getting close. There are many here who have a hard time keeping from thinking that the ending point of the NCAAT determines the value of the team.

Measured by whom? I don't care how the press measures us, and my personal view is a Duke fan who measures the team strictly on championships is acting spoiled and entitled. I acknowledge there are many here who equate the team's "value" with the ending point (as you put it) in the NCAAT, but I don't respect that way of thinking.


I think you have to look at the whole season. You say you are flabbergasted that some might think that there are only two outcomes- champion or loser. But- in Sports- you ultimately are measured by championships. For some, the regular season means nothing, the ACC championship means nothing- it is all about how far you get in the final tourney as if the elite 8 is greater than the sweet 16. I don't agree. The matchups and some luck play a big role here. I value all the championships the team wins that are in front of them during a season. The final Tourney is a part but in the end you have to win it to claim its true value- if you don;t then you hope that the teams learns from the experience- get's hungrier and gets better. Getting to the final 4 and losing may make a team hungrier and better and perhaps that is what folks are thinking- I am not so sure. But if Duke was not to get past the first game of the final four for the next 30 years in a row (as Duke seems to be having a hard time getting past the sweet 16 game) and never win an ACC regular season or tourney championship- I am not sure that would be very satisfying.

Well, I agree you have to look at the whole season. I enjoy watching Duke play and rejoice with each and every win. I cherish ACC regular season titles, ACC championships, making the NCAAT, making the Sweet 16, making the Elite Eight, and making the Final Four, as well as championships. They are all big achievements. Which perhaps is the only point where we disagree -- losing in the Final Four is better than losing in the Sweet 16 because we accomplished two additional things that are pretty hard to do (Elite Eight and Final Four).

Finally, I know you were being extreme for the purpose of your example, but if we make the Final Four for the next 30 years in a row, I'll be ecstatic, even if we lose our Final Four game every single time. You may not feel that way and of course that's up to you. But I will.

[mike88]

I consider a season to be successful based on winning championships (pre-season tournament, ACC regular season, ACC tournament, regional NCAA tournament, and Final Four) and also on advancing to or beyond the level that the team could reasonably be expected to reach.

For this year's team, the ACC regular season and ACC tournament are important, and I would hope we advance to the Sweet Sixteen and play well / win that game. Anything after that is gravy to me. Winning the ACC tournament last year validated that season for me; even in 2006, beating Boston College in the ACC tournament was enough for me to declare that season successful.

[weezie]

Yay, got last minute tix to the game! I think we're sitting behind the bench. Anybody who knows me here, look for me tonight.
Watching the gold medal game online in the car....sadness, down 2.

[airowe]

I think this will be a slow-paced, low scoring game. Lots of rebounds from our starting bigs. Hopefully, Lance can do a good job slowing down Landesburg and our guys get our shots back.

[cptnflash]

We should try to push the pace if we can. UVA doesn't force turnovers very much so it seems like a good risk/reward tradeoff for us to try to turn this into a high possession game.

The two keys for us on offense will be 1) Can we shoot better against a team that doesn't hold opponents to a low FG percentage, and 2) Can we continue to get offensive rebounds against a team that usually does a good job on the defensive boards?

The key on defense will be stopping Landesberg without fouling.

Can't really see a way that we lose this game, which is a good thing because a loss tonight would be devastating to our hopes of a #1 seed and brings a second place finish in the ACC into play in a big way.

[CDu]

It will be interesting to see whom we put on Landesburg primarily (or whether we go with a true defense-by-committee there). We could go with Singler (the natural matchup positionally) or Thomas (with Singler guarding Scott). I doubt we'll see Scheyer or Smith as the primary assignment on Landesburg as UVa usually plays two smaller guards (at least) alongside Landesburg and their bigs. But we could possibly see Singler get assigned a guy like Jones or Baker, who aren't terribly dangerous off the dribble.

Honestly, UVa doesn't have the offensive weapons to beat us unless they play a tremendous game and we have a really bad night. They'll slow the game down as much as they can, and they'll hope they're hitting their threes. But we'll have a huge size advantage, which will hopefully help us win the battle on the boards.

This game should be treated similar to that of the VT game. We need to make Landesburg work to get his points and prevent the rest of the UVa guys from getting things going offensively. And we need to make good decisions and not be completely ice-cold from the field. If we do that, we should win.

[riverside6]

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=3839

Starters are posted, no surprises for Duke.

[Cameron]

Is FSN really going to keep the four channels that it has covering the Duke game tonight on the Clemson-FSU contest?

There are two alternate channels that could be showing the opposite game. Why are these networks so inept at delivering such simple solutions?

[RoyalBlue08]

Game is not until 7:45...chill.

[strawbs]

anywhere to watch online incase the clemson fsu game goes to ot?

[Cameron]

Yeah, my mistake. I only looked at the satellite schedule.

But don't tell me to chill. ESPN screws this BS up all the time, and has numerous alternate channels that it uses only when it feels it should. It's beyond tiring.

[Cameron]

And we're still not switching.

Inept.

[strawbs]

And we're still not switching.

Inept.


i hear you brother!

[Greg_Newton]

FSU making a three in the next 7.2 seconds = Me killing somebody in the next 7.3 seconds.

BTW, I'm glad they stuck with the full-screen of the time-out rather than the first two minutes of the Duke game.

[YourLandlord]

HOLY OMG WHAT A PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wow. that was incredible.

[94duke]

Landesberg not starting. Deep thigh bruise vs Miami.

[superdave]

Nice start. We are really out in the passing lanes today.

[Cameron]

Great start. I'd really, really love to see Andre get an open look on the transition kick out top. That's where he's been most deadly this year. Haven't seen him open in transition for awhile, though.

[jjasper0729]

And we're still not switching.

Inept.

but yesterday, cbs switched (at least in the triangle area) to the unc/wake game and we got to miss the live end to the uk/ut game... go figure. wonder if they would have switched to a duke game for people at least in this area.

[Cameron]

but yesterday, cbs switched at least in the triangle area) to the unc/wake game and we got to miss the live end to the uk/ut game... go figure. wonder if they would have switched to a duke game for people at least in this area.


That's definitely a problem you could run into when switching games. But FSN has two alternate channels on top of its two regular stations that are carrying the Duke-Virginia game (FSN Ohio and FSN Cincinnati). At least that's how it is on my Dish here in Ohio. So FSN easily could have switched to the Duke game on one of the alternate channels.

[MChambers]

Big advantage, Duke.

[DukieInBrasil]

we came out of the gates on fire, or at least kept UVA ice-cold. The Wahoos then started showing a bit more life. Can the boys in blue close the half strong and snuff out any chance for UVA to claw their way back in?

[TNDukeFan]

For three!

[fisheyes]

Yes!!!! Dawkins!!!!

[moonpie23]

andre got the lid off, then he was too hurried on his next one....he'll get it back.....

[94duke]

I love it when we hold a team to 20-25 pts in a half.

[DukieInBrasil]

Answering myself: not really. We're up 14 at half, which is fantastic, but UVA could miraculously get back in this game.
Stoked to see everyone get real minutes in the 1st half. Also pumped to see Andre hit a 3, hopefully he'll hit a couple more in the 2nd half. Bummed that Z put himself on the bench with 2 early fouls.

[94duke]

Answering myself: not really. We're up 14 at half, which is fantastic, but UVA could miraculously get back in this game.
Stoked to see everyone get real minutes in the 1st half. Also pumped to see Andre hit a 3, hopefully he'll hit a couple more in the 2nd half. Bummed that Z put himself on the bench with 2 early fouls.

Interestingly, no Ryan.

[Indoor66]

Answering myself: not really. We're up 14 at half, which is fantastic, but UVA could miraculously get back in this game.
Stoked to see everyone get real minutes in the 1st half. Also pumped to see Andre hit a 3, hopefully he'll hit a couple more in the 2nd half. Bummed that Z put himself on the bench with 2 early fouls.

You really are a glass mostly empty type of fan, aren't you?

[Duvall]

Interestingly, no Ryan.

Two Plumlees, one foul.

[tele]

At the half, five bench points, solid!

[Andre Buckner Fan]

Dawkins needs the minutes. He's doing great D and made a 3... Put him in!!!

[Masticatee]

Despite our sizable, uh, size advantage, we aren't out rebounding them by much (at the time of this posting 17-16 and only 2 offensive boards). Just an interesting note.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300590258

[94duke]

Despite our sizable, uh, size advantage, we aren't out rebounding them by much (at the time of this posting 17-16 and only 2 offensive boards). Just an interesting note.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300590258

One of UVa's primary focuses was to keep us off of the O glass. They are doing a good job of that.

[ChrisP]

Scheyer TOTALLY hacked on that fast break and...no call. WTF?

[TNDukeFan]

Miles with the block.

[ChrisP]

Scheyer hacked and bumped again and...no call! I really think he's been fouled hard twice - haven't ever seen him this demonstrative regarding the no calls!

[El_Diablo]

Sideline reporter Jill Hendrith just told a long story about how Duke has now gone 3 straight years without winning the ACC regular season or tournament. That Scheyer's class has not won any ACC titles.

Ummmmm....what about last year, Jill?

[Andre Buckner Fan]

Apparently blatant fouls against Scheyer don't count?

[jjasper0729]

Sideline reporter Jill Hendrith just told a long story about how Duke has now gone 3 straight years without winning the ACC regular season or tournament. That Scheyer's class has not won any ACC titles.

Ummmmm....what about last year, Jill?

thought the same thing.. we won the tournament last year for crying out loud

[Duvall]

Sideline reporter Jill Hendrith just told a long story about how Duke has now gone 3 straight years without winning the ACC regular season or tournament. That Scheyer's class has not won any ACC titles.

Ummmmm....what about last year, Jill?

Pretty sure she was there, too. Bizarre.

[mike88]

great stretch of play by Mason - on both ends, especially the (simple) pass to Kyle- if he keeps this up, we are going to be tough to beat

[HowBoutDemDevils]

MP2 is showing those flashes again

[El_Diablo]

thought the same thing.. we won the tournament last year for crying out loud

Well, to be honest, "reporting standards" has never been a strong suit for Fox channels... :D

[El_Diablo]

Mason taking over! Those floaters in the lane are unstoppable!

[TNDukeFan]

...and not one involving UNC.

[RoyalBlue08]

It really looks like Mason is playing under control today. I really thought all he needed was to slow down a bit and stop trying to do too much. He is making the simple plays today....and if he can keep playing like he is tonight he is going to be huge for us come tournament time.

[Les Grossman]

or the Cavaliers

or are the Blue Devils growing into a team to be reckoned with?

[chrisheery]

Well, to be honest, "reporting standards" has never been a strong suit for Fox channels... :D

I believe she even said ACC regular season. Give her a break.

[El_Diablo]

I believe she even said ACC regular season. Give her a break.

False. She said "regular season or tournament."

[chrisheery]

False. She said "regular season or tournament."

If that is true, she's an idiot (she may be anyway).

[TNDukeFan]

False. She said "regular season or tournament."

That's what I heard, too.

[davekay1971]

Well, to be honest, "reporting standards" has never been a strong suit for Fox channels... :D

Aooogah! Aooogah! PPB alert! PPB alert!

[El_Diablo]

I hope no one complains about PT for the freshmen after this one.

[94duke]

or the Cavaliers

or are the Blue Devils growing into a team to be reckoned with?

Well, with no Landesberg UVa was missing their best player.

[El_Diablo]

Well, with no Landesberg UVa was missing their best player.

Mike Scott really laid an egg tonight too.

[El_Diablo]

Mike Scott really laid an egg tonight too.

Although he's probably got a lot on his mind with the new Dunder-Mifflin ownership shaking things up...