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jhole
02-25-2010, 03:20 PM
This Hoya thread seems to suggest that Kendall may not be the point guard savior that Carolina is seeking next year. The Carolina recession may improve but continue thru next year. A few highlights and the link below...


He's got great size for the position, he's left-handed and he can pass his behind off. Those are his positives, along with his basketball IQ.

But he's horribly slow, doesn't shoot that well from the perimeter, doesn't blow by people off the dribble and just isn't a great player because great players at the high school level, no matter how good the league, get their teams more wins than he's gotten his team this season.

Right now, I'd take Starks, Cook and Ross over Marshall and keep it moving. How's it going to look, him making the mickey d's team and not first team all-met? It seems as if there's more people than just on this board who thinks he's not the player he's made out to be nationally.

And yes, I've seen him play. Extensively.


Marshall is the perfect example of an early bloomer that was hyped as early as middle school as the next big thing, but others have caught up to him physically, and many people - not just on this board - are seeing that he's a good player, but nothing special.

Not bashing the kid at all, but it's almost funny to me that he can be regarded as one of the top players in the country, when he's not even the best player at his position in the area.

And yes, I've seen him play ... A LOT.

http://hoyatalk2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=21452

oldnavy
02-25-2010, 03:47 PM
This Hoya thread seems to suggest that Kendall may not be the point guard savior that Carolina is seeking next year. The Carolina recession may improve but continue thru next year. A few highlights and the link below...





http://hoyatalk2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=21452
The comment about his lack of speed is most telling if true. We all know that in order for Ol Roy's offense to click it requires a lightning fast PG... I hope he is a slow as molasses in the winter! :)

Huh?
02-25-2010, 03:54 PM
This Hoya thread seems to suggest that Kendall may not be the point guard savior that Carolina is seeking next year. The Carolina recession may improve but continue thru next year. A few highlights and the link below...





http://hoyatalk2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=21452

I've seen him play, granted only once and on tv, but he was drastically outplayed by Myke Kabongo (sp?). I don't remember him making a jumpshot and he looks slow even against high school players. Even though the teams were top teams in the country I would think a McD's would dominate.

http://www.masslive.com/hoophallclassic/stats/2010/mon_1.html

link to that games box score

DUKIE V(A)
02-25-2010, 03:59 PM
He's not the answer from what I've seen. Right now, maybe he makes the third or fourth All-Met team (if they consider his reputation). This doesn't make him a bad player (he is a great high school player)...but I do not expect that he will be all that good in the ACC.

roywhite
02-25-2010, 04:33 PM
He's not the answer from what I've seen. Right now, maybe he makes the third or fourth All-Met team (if they consider his reputation). This doesn't make him a bad player (he is a great high school player)...but I do not expect that he will be all that good in the ACC.

How does Marshall compare to Duke signee Tyler Thornton?

Welcome2DaSlopes
02-25-2010, 04:41 PM
Well head to head match ups Ty holds the lead in wins and also I heard Ty usally shuts him down consistantly

OldPhiKap
02-25-2010, 04:43 PM
The comment about his lack of speed is most telling if true. We all know that in order for Ol Roy's offense to click it requires a lightning fast PG.

Well, I'm sure Roy will adjust his offense to the team he has. Just look at this . . . uh . . . well, nevermind.

shoutingncu
02-25-2010, 05:21 PM
How does he compare to Ed Cota? Skillwise, not attitudewise.

BD80
02-25-2010, 05:27 PM
unc often recruits really good kids, and I don't tend to root against them. There are many notorius exceptions to this rule.

I am starting to feel bad for Marshall. The way this season is ending, ol' roy and the tar heel "faithful" will be throwing the current team in the emotional trash heap and pinning all of their hopes on the incoming freshmen. It doesn't sound like Marshall is going to be able to run the the offense at full-tilt from the get-go, like Lawson and Felton did.

The pressure on Marshall may ramp up something fierce. It will be interesting to see how ol' roy handles the pg "competition" and if he can preserve Drew II's psyche. If neither can push the ball as fast as roy's offense requires, it could be a fun year next year.

I don't want to see Marshall or Drew suffer, but I sure do watchin' ol' roy suffer.

G man
02-25-2010, 05:45 PM
unc often recruits really good kids, and I don't tend to root against them. There are many notorius exceptions to this rule.

I am starting to feel bad for Marshall. The way this season is ending, ol' roy and the tar heel "faithful" will be throwing the current team in the emotional trash heap and pinning all of their hopes on the incoming freshmen. It doesn't sound like Marshall is going to be able to run the the offense at full-tilt from the get-go, like Lawson and Felton did.

The pressure on Marshall may ramp up something fierce. It will be interesting to see how ol' roy handles the pg "competition" and if he can preserve Drew II's psyche. If neither can push the ball as fast as roy's offense requires, it could be a fun year next year.

I don't want to see Marshall or Drew suffer, but I sure do watchin' ol' roy suffer.


Maybe I am just mean spirited, but I enjoy when anyone associated with puke blue suffers. I hate that team. I probably would not hate them so much except every heel fan I know takes the time to call me following every loss. So when they struggle it is sweet vindication. I hope they stink for the next 100 years. I don't wish anything physically bad on any of the players mind you, but 15 losses a season is alright with me.

superdave
02-25-2010, 05:53 PM
How does he compare to Ed Cota? Skillwise, not attitudewise.

Are you saying he's a table-setter rather than a road-runner? Or something like that....

roywhite
02-25-2010, 05:56 PM
A particularly telling comment on Marshall that illustrates a flaw in Roy's recruiting approach:


Marshall is the perfect example of an early bloomer that was hyped as early as middle school as the next big thing, but others have caught up to him physically, and many people - not just on this board - are seeing that he's a good player, but nothing special

Marshall committed in September of his junior year; at the time, he was very highly ranked in the class of 2010. But with additional experience and physical maturity, others have passed him by.

Roy went for the early commit, and may end up with something less than he thought.

Cockabeau
02-25-2010, 06:19 PM
Say what you want about Kendall Marshall.

He may not be the quickest player on the planet but he passes the ball ahead on the break.

Last I heard, a pass is quicker than two feet...

Saying that, I am not sure he is good enough to play ahead of Drew

ClosetHurleyFan
02-25-2010, 06:47 PM
unc often recruits really good kids, and I don't tend to root against them. There are many notorius exceptions to this rule.

I am starting to feel bad for Marshall. The way this season is ending, ol' roy and the tar heel "faithful" will be throwing the current team in the emotional trash heap and pinning all of their hopes on the incoming freshmen. It doesn't sound like Marshall is going to be able to run the the offense at full-tilt from the get-go, like Lawson and Felton did.

The pressure on Marshall may ramp up something fierce. It will be interesting to see how ol' roy handles the pg "competition" and if he can preserve Drew II's psyche. If neither can push the ball as fast as roy's offense requires, it could be a fun year next year.

I don't want to see Marshall or Drew suffer, but I sure do watchin' ol' roy suffer.

....or is the problem with Drew (and for that matter, Strickland too) less one of pure speed or the ability to play fast? Seems to me that at times, both seem to have more than sufficient speed but they dont utilize it appropriately or frankly dont control there speed. Wondering if Drew, as junior could actually turn into a pretty good point guard. this Carolina fan thinks the lack of shooters this year was a much a problem as anything else.

ClosetHurleyFan
02-25-2010, 06:49 PM
Are you saying he's a table-setter rather than a road-runner? Or something like that....

Sometimes running a great break is not just about speed, but as you point out, being a good table setter within the break. Cota was not all that fast, but ran as good a break at Carolina as anyone other than maybe Felton or Lawson.

BD80
02-25-2010, 06:57 PM
....or is the problem with Drew (and for that matter, Strickland too) less one of pure speed or the ability to play fast? Seems to me that at times, both seem to have more than sufficient speed but they dont utilize it appropriately or frankly dont control there speed. Wondering if Drew, as junior could actually turn into a pretty good point guard. this Carolina fan thinks the lack of shooters this year was a much a problem as anything else.

It would be a shame for roy to shortchange Drew II because of what happened this season. I agree that Drew II could become a very good ACC point guard.

I hope he gets fed up with ol' roy and being recruited over and becomes a very good Conference USA point guard! :D

G man
02-25-2010, 07:04 PM
It would be a shame for roy to shortchange Drew II because of what happened this season. I agree that Drew II could become a very good ACC point guard.

I hope he gets fed up with ol' roy and being recruited over and becomes a very good Conference USA point guard! :D

I don't think he can. He lacks that killer instinct. Point guards are supposed to make their teams better Drew does not. He is a back up ACC point guard at best. He just can not due enough to lift his team. He maybe a more gifted athlete than Paulus, but I would take Paulus every time over Drew.

shoutingncu
02-25-2010, 07:07 PM
Sometimes running a great break is not just about speed, but as you point out, being a good table setter within the break. Cota was not all that fast, but ran as good a break at Carolina as anyone other than maybe Felton or Lawson.

This is what I was asking, yes. If Marshall compares favorably to Cota, I'd certainly be happy with that... provided the supporting cast is comparable to what Cota had for two years. That, of course, remains to be seen.

Speaking of one of Cota's running mates (no need to bump the thread), Antawn is 1-0 as a starter. Good test tonight at Boston.

superdave
02-25-2010, 07:45 PM
This is what I was asking, yes. If Marshall compares favorably to Cota, I'd certainly be happy with that... provided the supporting cast is comparable to what Cota had for two years. That, of course, remains to be seen.

Speaking of one of Cota's running mates (no need to bump the thread), Antawn is 1-0 as a starter. Good test tonight at Boston.

Cota is the 4th all time assist man in the NCAA. And I dont think he could jump more than 3 inches. He had the ball on a string though.

Kdogg
02-25-2010, 07:58 PM
Cota is the 4th all time assist man in the NCAA. And I dont think he could jump more than 3 inches. He had the ball on a string though.

He's three all time behind Corchian (2) and Hurley (1). The ACC has the top three and four of the top five (Blake).

duke09hms
02-25-2010, 08:40 PM
Let's all be careful not to shortchange the kid. When all is said and done, Kendall Marshall could very well have led UNC to an 8-0 record against Duke. Will that happen? Probably not.

But just as we have learned not to overhype incoming recruits way too many times, let's also avoid disparaging any player who has yet to play a single minute of college bball. Who knows how good or bad he's going to be?

roywhite
02-25-2010, 08:43 PM
Let's all be careful not to shortchange the kid. When all is said and done, Kendall Marshall could very well have led UNC to an 8-0 record against Duke. Will that happen? Probably not.

But just as we have learned not to overhype incoming recruits way too many times, let's also avoid disparaging any player who has yet to play a single minute of college bball. Who knows how good or bad he's going to be?

Fair enough.

I'll say this...he'd better be good, or UNC will not bounce back to ACC and national prominence soon. The current version of the Tar Heel team does not have good backcourt play, either offensively or defensively.

gotham devil
02-25-2010, 09:15 PM
How does he compare to Ed Cota? Skillwise, not attitudewise.

Eddie was smaller, but much quicker, both full court and laterally. He had a tighter handle and was a better pure scorer than Marshall as well (neither are good pure shooters). A few months after Eddie got to CH, Coach Smith had a meeting with him to tell him that he was there to be a distrubutor as a freshman, not a scorer and Eddie was cool with that. Later, they let him score. He's one of the less than a handful of guys to put up 1000 points and 1000 assists.

In his initial hs, Eddie could do all of the difficult/fancy passes that Marshall does, but Jere Quinn took the majority of the street out of Cota and his game. It was always Eddie's dream to go to Carolina and Eric "Rock" Eisenberg, his coach at Tilden and mentor, got him off the rough corners of the East New York section of Brooklyn and cleansed his rep by sending him off to St. Thomas More in rural Oakdale, CT.

JasonEvans
02-25-2010, 10:54 PM
Eddie was smaller, but much quicker, both full court and laterally. He had a tighter handle and was a better pure scorer than Marshall as well (neither are good pure shooters). A few months after Eddie got to CH, Coach Smith had a meeting with him to tell him that he was there to be a distrubutor as a freshman, not a scorer and Eddie was cool with that. Later, they let him score. He's one of the less than a handful of guys to put up 1000 points and 1000 assists.

Hang on a sec-- is there anyone with 1000 assists who does not have 1000 points. I cannot imagine a player could play enough to get 1000 assists and not get 1000 points.

Lemme look for a moment and get back to you on this.

-Jason "back in a sec" Evans

calltheobvious
02-25-2010, 11:00 PM
Hang on a sec-- is there anyone with 1000 assists who does not have 1000 points. I cannot imagine a player could play enough to get 1000 assists and not get 1000 points.

Lemme look for a moment and get back to you on this.

-Jason "back in a sec" Evans

Nope. Hurley, Corchiani, and Cota are the only 1000+ assist guys, and all broke 1000 points.

JasonEvans
02-25-2010, 11:05 PM
Hang on a sec-- is there anyone with 1000 assists who does not have 1000 points. I cannot imagine a player could play enough to get 1000 assists and not get 1000 points.

Lemme look for a moment and get back to you on this.

-Jason "back in a sec" Evans

Well, that did not take long.

Hurley 1076 assists
Corchiani 1038
Cota 1030
Keith Jennings 983
Steve Blake 972

And here is how those 5 guys rank in points scored--

Hurley 1731 points
Corchiani 1425
Cota 1261
Keith Jennings 1988
Steve Blake 1139

So, 1000 points and 1000 assists go hand-in-hand.

--Jason "I don't recall ever thinking Cota was a threat as a scorer... not once" Evans

ClosetHurleyFan
02-26-2010, 07:12 AM
Eddie was smaller, but much quicker, both full court and laterally. He had a tighter handle and was a better pure scorer than Marshall as well (neither are good pure shooters). A few months after Eddie got to CH, Coach Smith had a meeting with him to tell him that he was there to be a distrubutor as a freshman, not a scorer and Eddie was cool with that. Later, they let him score. He's one of the less than a handful of guys to put up 1000 points and 1000 assists.

In his initial hs, Eddie could do all of the difficult/fancy passes that Marshall does, but Jere Quinn took the majority of the street out of Cota and his game. It was always Eddie's dream to go to Carolina and Eric "Rock" Eisenberg, his coach at Tilden and mentor, got him off the rough corners of the East New York section of Brooklyn and cleansed his rep by sending him off to St. Thomas More in rural Oakdale, CT.

thanks. He is one of my favorite Tar Heels, his passing with Carter and Jamison on the break was a thing of beauty.

slower
02-26-2010, 07:23 AM
It was always Eddie's dream to go to Carolina and Eric "Rock" Eisenberg, his coach at Tilden and mentor, got him off the rough corners of the East New York section of Brooklyn and cleansed his rep by sending him off to St. Thomas More in rural Oakdale, CT.

Always thought he was a punk. I guess his "street" upbringing explains a lot. Gotta be a certain kind of tough to survive, I suppose.

ClosetHurleyFan
02-26-2010, 07:24 AM
Fair enough.

I'll say this...he'd better be good, or UNC will not bounce back to ACC and national prominence soon. The current version of the Tar Heel team does not have good backcourt play, either offensively or defensively.

I think Strickland could actually turn into a very good shooting guard for Carolina.....he has shown flashes in the last few weeks, just like Henson has playing at the 4 spot. Their is lots of athleticism on this team and coming in next year, its up to Roy to channel it correctly.

And as much as it pisses me off to agree with you obnoxious bunch of Duke fans (tongue in cheek) ......I think most of you are spot on in terms of how Roy has flunked in his press treatment of this team. He has failed as a coach this year, but the really important question, as for any of us that fail, is how he responds next year. I can live with failure, just react accordingly. I was talking to a former Dean Smith player the other day and he totally agreed on how Roy has handled this team.......

ClosetHurleyFan
02-26-2010, 07:26 AM
Always thought he was a punk. I guess his "street" upbringing explains a lot. Gotta be a certain kind of tough to survive, I suppose.

I could see how opposing fans could find him rough around the edges, to be fair, his whining the year after Vince/Jamison left was a little petty, but he was the consummate team player. Probably underrated in terms of ranking of great point guards in history of UNC. For that Carolina team, I dont think Lawson or Felton would have been a better fit. They didnt need his scoring, Shammond, Vince, Jamison did plenty of that.....

slower
02-26-2010, 07:29 AM
Fair enough.

I'll say this...he'd better be good, or UNC will not bounce back to ACC and national prominence soon. The current version of the Tar Heel team does not have good backcourt play, either offensively or defensively.


I think you may be overstating (wishful thinking) the Tarholes' decline. I can't imagine that they WON'T bounce back soon. But we can all dream, I suppose. ;)

CDu
02-26-2010, 07:36 AM
Fair enough.

I'll say this...he'd better be good, or UNC will not bounce back to ACC and national prominence soon. The current version of the Tar Heel team does not have good backcourt play, either offensively or defensively.

I think very little of UNC's success next year depends on Marshall. I think the additions of Barnes and Bullock are the more important ones. If those guys can provide the perimeter scoring threats this team needs and Drew/Strickland/McDonald make the progress expected with another year of experience, they could be very good again next year. That's especially true if at least one of Davis/Henson stays. But even if both of those guys leave along with Thompson, UNC should still have a solid enough frontcourt to be much better than they've been this year.

That said, I agree with the sentiment that it's not a good idea to write off a guy before he ever walks on campus (just like it's not a good idea to assume a guy will be the savior before he ever walks on campus). There was a guy a few years back who was not considered very athletic but had good height and was a good passer. He turned out to be able to handle an up-tempo offense pretty well (Deron Williams). That doesn't mean that Marshall will follow the same path. But a guy can shake a lack of athleticism to still be a pretty effective PG.

JasonEvans
02-26-2010, 07:38 AM
I spent some time watching clips of Kendall Marshall last night.

No, he is not a blow-by PG with blazing speed, not by a long shot. But, it appered to me he was great at picking just the right moment for a burst of speed. He looked quick, though not fast, if that makes any sense.

Everyone says this kid is a stunning passer and he certainly looks like he has great handle with the ball. He may not be a great outside shooter, but I can see this kid running the show for UNC next season and (much like Cota) being deceptive in his drives and sterling in his set-ups of the big men.

It really is a pity for UNC that he is not there this year, because I think Davis and Thompson are ideally suited to work with a kid like this. Henson and Zeller, who are not the same kind of finishers at the rim, may not be as good a match for Marshall's skills. I do think we will see Kendall draw the D and do a lot of kicking the ball to Graves, Barnes, Bullock, and Strickland next season though.

Any Carolina fans expecting Marshall to be an instant stud at PG, like Felton and Lawson, will be in for a surprise. But, any Carolina haters who think he will struggle a lot and continue to make PG be a major liability for the Heels may be disappointed too.

--Jason "I think UNC will be halfway back next year -- probably about 9-7 or 10-6, maybe 11-5 in the ACC and flittering around the back side of the top 25" Evans

dukeimac
02-26-2010, 08:11 AM
Over the weekend I got to listen to Coach (Bobby) Knight do a game.

He made a comment that really sticks out to me. "Someone who postulates (to assume or claim as true) a recruits talent is probably a chubby little guy who has never played the game."

For all that I heard on this site about how good people thought King and Czyz were going to be at Duke, I think any comments about a UNC recruit is about as reliable the name Toyota. I'm putting my stock in something much more reliable.

DeBlueDevil
02-26-2010, 08:13 AM
Maybe I am just mean spirited, but I enjoy when anyone associated with puke blue suffers. I hate that team. I probably would not hate them so much except every heel fan I know takes the time to call me following every loss. So when they struggle it is sweet vindication. I hope they stink for the next 100 years. I don't wish anything physically bad on any of the players mind you, but 15 losses a season is alright with me.
I agree totally with this statement lol. Just not to impressed with Marshall but I guess we'll have to wait and see. I find it hard to believe that these incoming guys are going to be the answer next year. Especially if Kyle and Nolan return and we have the senior leadership along with the nice young incoming talent to go with the young talent we already have + Seth Curry. And then add in the possibility we add another athletic wing. I see trouble for the Heels.

I mean really can they get much worst then this year? And in my eyes they'll improve a little MAYBE but could their fans be happy with just improvement if they don't atleast get the best of Duke once? Doubt it. If a few things fall in the right place for us...Next year has National Championship written all over it...atleast those are my expectations

flyingdutchdevil
02-26-2010, 08:20 AM
I find it hard to believe that these incoming guys are going to be the answer next year.

Really? The-one-who-will-not-be-named and Bullock are studs, as painful as that is to admit. They bring instant scoring to a stagnant team. The team is not going to be unbelievable next year, but they will be very good. Those two will provide the answer. Marshall - not so much. But remember, we had a mediocre PG for a few years and still did very well in the regular season with high seeds in the tourney.

airowe
02-26-2010, 08:36 AM
Over the weekend I got to listen to Coach (Bobby) Knight do a game.

He made a comment that really sticks out to me. "Someone who postulates (to assume or claim as true) a recruits talent is probably a chubby little guy who has never played the game."

For all that I heard on this site about how good people thought King and Czyz were going to be at Duke, I think any comments about a UNC recruit is about as reliable the name Toyota. I'm putting my stock in something much more reliable.

You mean something more reliable like Dave Telep and Evan Daniels, two chubby little guys who never played the game?

roywhite
02-26-2010, 08:46 AM
Over the weekend I got to listen to Coach (Bobby) Knight do a game.

He made a comment that really sticks out to me. "Someone who postulates (to assume or claim as true) a recruits talent is probably a chubby little guy who has never played the game."

For all that I heard on this site about how good people thought King and Czyz were going to be at Duke, I think any comments about a UNC recruit is about as reliable the name Toyota. I'm putting my stock in something much more reliable.

Don't understand your harping on Czyz and King. There was no great consensus about either of those guys being star players.

dukeimac
02-26-2010, 09:10 AM
Don't understand your harping on Czyz and King. There was no great consensus about either of those guys being star players.

Check the posts on these guys. Hype, Hype, Hype. See the YouTube video of these guys - that is all that could be talked about on these guys. King can score and Czyz is a high flyer.

History is doomed to repeat it self. Do you understand why they use the word "doomed?"

Duvall
02-26-2010, 09:17 AM
Check the posts on these guys. Hype, Hype, Hype. See the YouTube video of these guys - that is all that could be talked about on these guys. King can score and Czyz is a high flyer.

Don't think it went down that way. As I recall, there was one pretty vocal Czyz booster, but the consensus was that he would be a project, and that that would be okay. I don't recall much being said about King at all before he matriculated, but the search function is ready when you are.


History is doomed to repeat it self. Do you understand why they use the word "doomed?"

Wouldn't that cut against the idea of Marshall being successful in the ACC, not in favor of it? He's the one being hyped now.

DeBlueDevil
02-26-2010, 10:16 AM
Really? The-one-who-will-not-be-named and Bullock are studs, as painful as that is to admit. They bring instant scoring to a stagnant team. The team is not going to be unbelievable next year, but they will be very good. Those two will provide the answer. Marshall - not so much. But remember, we had a mediocre PG for a few years and still did very well in the regular season with high seeds in the tourney.
I get where you're coming from the one-whom-we-shall-not-speak-of and Bullock will most likely be solid additions and I did say that I think the heels will definitely be improved next year but I consider the "answer" meaning the additions that take them back to the final four....i just don't see that.

You reference us having a mediocre PG but we also had stacked teams with POY twice in J.J. and also had Sheldon down low and then recently we still had Scheyer (POY candidate) and Singler and Smith as well....im just not ready to crown these kids on the same level of that talent until I see them play. And Paulus wasn't the greatest PG ever but I still consider him above average..as one post said earlier i'd take him over drew.

Also, I may remind you that sometimes top recruits are busts...i remember a recent year we supposedly had the top recruit in a Mr. McRoberts and that didn't turn out exactly as planned either...not that you can compare both his and HB's abilities but its possible that HB could turn out much like Henson has this year. Will he be good? Most likely but to assume they'll be the answer with all the added pressure the outcome of this season will put on next year....not to mention the stacked team right down the road @ Duke...i dunno...thats a TALL order for ANY freshman

whereinthehellami
02-26-2010, 10:42 AM
I don't expect KM to be a bust. Nor do I expect him to solve their backcourt issues as a freshman either. I think he will help without a doubht but KM does not scare me at all as a Duke fan. The heels could have done alot better considering their considerable needs. So back the bus up Roy, there will be new recruits to run over!

roywhite
02-26-2010, 10:58 AM
I don't expect KM to be a bust. Nor do I expect him to solve their backcourt issues as a freshman either. I think he will help without a doubht but KM does not scare me at all as a Duke fan. The heels could have done alot better considering their considerable needs. So back the bus up Roy, there will be new recruits to run over!

Perhaps this year's team was just a blip and the Heels will return to their winning ways next year. But there's some question as to how well Roy's teams can play without the really good/fast PG like a Jacque Vaughan, Ray Felton, Ty Lawson type.

The whole style of play has been based on a fast tempo offense with the break and secondary break. Will Kendall Marshall be closer to a Bobby Frasor than a Ty Lawson? If so, can Roy put together a successful offensive attack? Perhaps, but he didn't show much adaptability this season.

BD80
02-26-2010, 11:15 AM
Check the posts on these guys. Hype, Hype, Hype. See the YouTube video of these guys - that is all that could be talked about on these guys. King can score and Czyz is a high flyer.

History is doomed to repeat it self. Do you understand why they use the word "doomed?"


"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it," from Reason in Common Sense, the first volume of The Life of Reason, George Santayana, 1905.


Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
- Winston Churchill


The essence of the quotes is that one CAN (and should) learn from the past.

Can anyone identify when Winston uttered the quote (paraphrased from Santayana) with which he has been identified?


... --Jason "I think UNC will be ... flittering around the back side of the top 25" Evans

That would make me VERY nervous if I were ranked #25!

flyingdutchdevil
02-26-2010, 11:19 AM
I get where you're coming from the one-whom-we-shall-not-speak-of and Bullock will most likely be solid additions and I did say that I think the heels will definitely be improved next year but I consider the "answer" meaning the additions that take them back to the final four....i just don't see that.

You reference us having a mediocre PG but we also had stacked teams with POY twice in J.J. and also had Sheldon down low and then recently we still had Scheyer (POY candidate) and Singler and Smith as well....im just not ready to crown these kids on the same level of that talent until I see them play. And Paulus wasn't the greatest PG ever but I still consider him above average..as one post said earlier i'd take him over drew.

Also, I may remind you that sometimes top recruits are busts...i remember a recent year we supposedly had the top recruit in a Mr. McRoberts and that didn't turn out exactly as planned either...not that you can compare both his and HB's abilities but its possible that HB could turn out much like Henson has this year. Will he be good? Most likely but to assume they'll be the answer with all the added pressure the outcome of this season will put on next year....not to mention the stacked team right down the road @ Duke...i dunno...thats a TALL order for ANY freshman

Respectful arguments - my favorite.

Thanks for your response. I was referring to the-one-who-shall-not-be-named and Bullock taking Carolina back to the upper thresholds of the ACC. Unfortunately, if the-one-who-shall-not-be-named is the second coming of LeBron or Durant, as many on IC (and here before he committed to UNC) have suggested, then he and Bullock could very well bring UNC back to the FF next year. Stranger things have happened.

The difference between UNC next year and the Duke teams your referenced are talent. With the exception of Melo, freshman / sophomore stacked teams rarely go far. That's why I think UNC will be in the upper half of the ACC but not go incredible far next year. With regards to Paulus, if I give my honest opinion, I'll have a thousand comments about being a troll so I'll just say that between Paulus and Drew....ummm...I'll take the fifth.

Lastly, I fully agree with you - recruits can be busts. UNC has had them, Duke has definitely had them (definition: bust = someone who severely underperforms their value coming into college). That said, I just don't see the possibility of the-one-who-shall-not-be-named being a bust. That kid is so damn motivated and hungry. That's why we all wanted him.

UNC will be good, not great, but good next year. They will make the tournament. They will play us harder than this year. They may even make some noise in the tourney. But there is no chance they underperform like this year. I just don't see it. Roy may be an awful person this year, but he will light a fire under them over the summer. That is pretty much guaranteed. Unless, or course, an NBA team comes calling...

Devilsfan
02-26-2010, 11:25 AM
This thread is totally wrong. Ol' Roy doesn't make mistakes recruiting as evidenced by his current team who were all hand picked by Mr. Daggumit himself.

DeBlueDevil
02-26-2010, 11:46 AM
Well said flyingdutchdevil....I think we're pretty much seeing eye to eye here....they'll be better but a lot has to do with you know who....just seems like you believe he'll be great and I'm hoping otherwise....hopefully things go my way...I always enjoy a respectful debate as well....Durant...LJ....man could this kid be that good?!?! I mean I saw Lebron up close on two occasions when he was in high school and you could tell he would be as good as he is today...but HB...he's good but I just don't see THAT good....we'll see

flyingdutchdevil
02-26-2010, 11:52 AM
Well said flyingdutchdevil....I think we're pretty much seeing eye to eye here....they'll be better but a lot has to do with you know who....just seems like you believe he'll be great and I'm hoping otherwise....hopefully things go my way...I always enjoy a respectful debate as well....Durant...LJ....man could this kid be that good?!?! I mean I saw Lebron up close on two occasions when he was in high school and you could tell he would be as good as he is today...but HB...he's good but I just don't see THAT good....we'll see

Was kinda hopin for a lengthy response ;).

I really don't like you-know-who (btw, we need a nickname for this kid fast. What we're calling him sounds too Harry Potter-ish. Wow - sad that I just admitted having read the books), but there is no denying his talent. I don't think he'll be a LBJ or Durant, but a more productive Luol is likely (which would be an amazing freshman campaign).

Supporting this kid also makes my blood boil. Which is why this will be the last time I remotely say anything positive about him.

ClosetHurleyFan
02-26-2010, 12:02 PM
Perhaps this year's team was just a blip and the Heels will return to their winning ways next year. But there's some question as to how well Roy's teams can play without the really good/fast PG like a Jacque Vaughan, Ray Felton, Ty Lawson type.

The whole style of play has been based on a fast tempo offense with the break and secondary break. Will Kendall Marshall be closer to a Bobby Frasor than a Ty Lawson? If so, can Roy put together a successful offensive attack? Perhaps, but he didn't show much adaptability this season.


The Bobby Frasor run team of 2006 and the Rex Walters run team of 1993 at Kansas were both very good teams......not great, but very good, the latter making it to the final four. Also, what about the Kirk Hinrich teams? Was Kirk blazing fast or just spotty quick?

roywhite
02-26-2010, 12:09 PM
The Bobby Frasor run team of 2006 and the Rex Walters run team of 1993 at Kansas were both very good teams......not great, but very good, the latter making it to the final four. Also, what about the Kirk Hinrich teams? Was Kirk blazing fast or just spotty quick?

Hinrich...quick certainly, and fairly fast (faster than Walters and Frasor IMO)

Clearly, Roy knows how to utilize the really fast, talented PG's and does reasonably well with those a notch or two below that...I expect a decent year next year for the Heels (10-6 in conference?) but not up to championship level.

It will be interesting to see how Roy and the Carolina program come to grips with the results of the 2009-10 season.

BD80
02-26-2010, 12:11 PM
The Bobby Frasor run team of 2006 and the Rex Walters run team of 1993 at Kansas were both very good teams......not great, but very good, the latter making it to the final four. Also, what about the Kirk Hinrich teams? Was Kirk blazing fast or just spotty quick?

Didn't they call Hinrich "zoom, zoom" at Kansas?

tbyers11
02-26-2010, 12:37 PM
Didn't they call Hinrich "zoom, zoom" at Kansas?

I think that was because Hinrich looked freakishly like the kid in the Mazda "Zoom Zoom" ads. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfyTO8xLjvQ