MBB: Florida State 77, UNC-CH 67

[GODUKEGO]

What is up with the ugly uniforms??? Their uniforms have faded along with their hopes. Do they think the opposition will think they are somebody else?? Just showed a close up of Roy and seriously, he looks 10 years older than he did in November of 2009.

[CDu]

What is up with the ugly uniforms??? Their uniforms have faded along with their hopes. Do they think the opposition will think they are somebody else?? Just showed a close up of Roy and seriously, he looks 10 years older than he did in November of 2009.

It's a marketing thing. Just another type of jersey to sell.

[CDu]

Also, UNC losing this game (and they're down big in the first half) would make a .500 season pretty unlikely. They'll finish with @Wake, @Duke, and Miami. If they lose two of those, they'll be 15-16, and they'll be playing a team in the 5-7 range in the ACC tourney (which will mean they'll likely be playing a team that beat them handily already this year).

[shoutingncu]

Mike Patrick: The crowd is doing what they can do for the team.

Uh, except show up...

[cptnflash]

Anyone who wants to learn how to jog without overly exerting yourself can just watch Carolina get back on "defense" for a good example.

[mgtr]

This is the first UNC game I have watched dispassionately. I really don't care much who wins. Now I see how really, really bad UNC is. I know they have injuries, but they look as if they have never practiced together. They have one good possession, primarily due to a one on one effort, and then three or four lousy possessions. And I don't see the old hillbilly calling time outs and telling them to run this or that. He just stands there.

[cptnflash]

Mike Patrick: The crowd is doing what they can do for the team.

Uh, except show up...

The lack of attendance at the UNC/FSU game was just called out on ESPNU's halftime show: "This is what North Carolina basketball has come to." Ouch!

[GoingFor#5]

Did they really say those jerseys are to honor the 21st anniversary of Air Jordans? That's just weird.

[superdave]

This is the first UNC game I have watched dispassionately. I really don't care much who wins. Now I see how really, really bad UNC is. I know they have injuries, but they look as if they have never practiced together. They have one good possession, primarily due to a one on one effort, and then three or four lousy possessions. And I don't see the old hillbilly calling time outs and telling them to run this or that. He just stands there.

Espn showed UNC's first 14 games (11-3) vs. the most recent dozen or so. Here's the dropoff:

FG % 49% to 40%
3 pt FG % 39% to 30%
PPG 82 to 68.

Their opponents scoring was almost constant at 72 and 73 ppg.

(Those #'s were from memory so maybe off a little.)

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Did they really say those jerseys are to honor the 21st anniversary of Air Jordans? That's just weird.

25th. anniversary... thus silver on the uniforms and shoes

[HateCarolina]

Now they're talking about the NIT...question was raised to "The Roy" about whether or not they would accept an NIT invitation and the answer was of course yes, but an even more important question is will they receive the invite....hahahha...too awesome!!!

Hubie is even "dogging" on the Holes now....I feel like I'm going to wake up any minute and this is all going to just be a dream.

Go Blue Devils!!

[CDu]

FSU now up by 20. It's just amazing how far this UNC team has fallen from December, when they played so well against MSU.

[YourLandlord]

25th. anniversary... thus silver on the uniforms and shoesPatrick messed up and said 21st.

The spread on this game was FSU by 3. For some reason I was hesitant...I actually thought UNC could win this game. They are just so terrible.

They are shooting 45% (not bad) and losing by 20. 10 TO/8 Asst, getting out rebounded. Buncha chumps.

[Georgiadevil]

Dadgummitttt,i love these tarheels!Roy is such a great coach.LOL

[Duvall]

UNC's post players look like children trying to play with men out there. If Ed Davis leaves, this is what they're going with next year?

[sagegrouse]

The spread on this game was FSU by 3. For some reason I was hesitant...I actually thought UNC could win this game. They are just so terrible.

They are shooting 45% (not bad) and losing by 20. 10 TO/8 Asst, getting out rebounded. Buncha chumps.

I picked FSU, since I am not picking UNC until it shows it can actually win a game. But I thought UNC would likely win this one.

My first season tix at Duke (not counting my student pass) were in 1994-1995. But even in that meltdown of a year, the games against UNC, UVa and UMd were classic seesaw affairs that went down to the last possession or to double overtime.

That Duke team was horribly inefficient with a lead but never, ever quit. The 13-18 team only had three regular season losses of more than 10 points and only one -- at UCLA -- was a real beatdown. UNC has had seven double-digit losses and is on its way to an 8th.

sagegrouse

[dukemsu]

This is helping considerably.

GTHC

dukemsu

[YourLandlord]

What do UNC and Russia have in common?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4m8Rz_zZlVQ/SLOi9faieVI/AAAAAAAAAoU/ARqsjAjjLkY/s400/KickAssLogo.gif

http://wakaaustingmot.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/kick_butt.jpg

[RelativeWays]

This is starting to become unfun. I don't even care that UNC lost, and that sucks. At this point it means nothing

[roywhite]

This is starting to become unfun. I don't even care that UNC lost, and that sucks. At this point it means nothing

At least you're not a UNC fan...they don't seem to care, either.

[moonpie23]

keep em coming.....

[MChambers]

This is starting to become unfun. I don't even care that UNC lost, and that sucks. At this point it means nothing

You need a serious attitude adjustment. It's still fun for me.

[Newton_14]

At least you're not a UNC fan...they don't seem to either.

You are right Roy. Hubert was beside himself at the effort. He pointed out that the passionate defense they showed on that one defensive possession that caused FSU to call timeout with about 1:47 left in the game was what they needed all game.

I also noticed that coming out of that timeout right after Hubert made his comments, Graves was cutting up and laughing with one of the refs, and Strickland was doing the same with another ref. I am sorry but if you have lost 13 games already, are basically getting your tails kicked at home again to FSU, there is no place at all for laughing.

If I were coaching the team and saw that, as soon as the building cleared after the game, I would have those 2 guys back out there on the end line and they would run suicides until they puked. And next game out they could sit by me and watch for 40 minutes..

[sagegrouse]

This is starting to become unfun. I don't even care that UNC lost, and that sucks. At this point it means nothing

While you don't need to savor each loss now, you need to store them up for the future. When a UNC win streak becomes unbearable, you can dredge them up and think mistily of the good old days.

sagegrouse

[Morris614]

UNC B-ball team slogan: Its better to lose because you dont try, than to lose because you are not good enough

[jdj4duke]

You need a serious attitude adjustment. It's still fun for me.

Clearly it's not fun for the fans in the dome either. There were noticeably empty seats during the first half. At about 4 minutes to go, the place was about 60% empty and by the last minute, it was nearly vacant. Roy will certainly bemoan the lack of fan support. The team certainly is poor, but non-playing attendees vacating the place is just a delight to behold! So- yep- it's still fun for me, too.

[78Devil]

I walked in from a very difficult day at work, poured myself a glass of wine, and turned on the t.v. wondering what was on espn. I cannot tell you how it turned my day around to see UNC getting beat -- again -- on national television.

All is right with the world....

[roywhite]

You are right Roy. Hubert was beside himself at the effort. He pointed out that the passionate defense they showed on that one defensive possession that caused FSU to call timeout with about 1:47 left in the game was what they needed all game.



Gotta give Hubert credit for his analysis tonight. He didn't pull any punches when discussing the poor performance of his alma mater's team.

You have to figure that at some point, some of the former UNC players are embarrassed and ticked off at what they are seeing on the court this year.

[moonpie23]

i expect that roy COULD have that "final fit" over fans leaving. He might just lose it about that...

i am so bummed that i am banned over on IC......

[Duvall]

UNC B-ball team slogan: Its better to lose because you dont try, than to lose because you are not good enough

They tried their best, and they failed miserably. The lesson is: never try.

[weezie]

A delightful bit if trivia...Patrick pointing out that while the holes were shilling for Air Jordans in their cadaver gray unis, fsu was wearing the same jersey that they wore at last year's ACC tourney where they upset the holes! :D
Isn't that cute?!:p

[OldSchool]

So- yep- it's still fun for me, too.

Still fun for me!

Will UNC finish alone in LAST place in the ACC? When was the last time that happened?

Since UNC has the tie-breaker over NC State, I would think State would need to win 2 of 3 to finish ahead of UNC, since one would have to think UNC would be favored over Miami at home. And Miami will likely need to win one more game.

Of course, with the UNC-Duke game, it's a rivalry game, so throw out the records.

Also there will be a tremendous load of pressure on the Holes to beat Duke in their last game and use that one win to salvage something of their season.

[roywhite]

A delightful bit if trivia...Patrick pointing out that while the holes were shilling for Air Jordans in their cadaver gray unis, fsu was wearing the same jersey that they wore at last year's ACC tourney where they upset the holes! :D
Isn't that cute?!:p

Yeah, I think you're on to something...they looked like a sorry minor league sports team running out the string on a lousy season, and sheepishly wearing some dumb promotional gear.

Not really a team in the sense of togetherness and purpose. Probably couldn't wait to get past the post-game digs from the coach, and get out of the building.

[CDu]

I also noticed that coming out of that timeout right after Hubert made his comments, Graves was cutting up and laughing with one of the refs, and Strickland was doing the same with another ref. I am sorry but if you have lost 13 games already, are basically getting your tails kicked at home again to FSU, there is no place at all for laughing.

I actually don't have a problem with kids having fun during breaks in the action. The game is supposed to be fun. If you can compete to your fullest and still have fun (even if you lose), more power to you. I mean, what are they supposed to do: just sulk away the whole season because they stink?

Now, if you feel that they're not competing hard enough during the actual game, that's a different issue. If being jovial in timeouts results in a lack of focus when the game resumes, then it's a bad thing. But it's certainly possible to have fun during breaks in the action and still remained fully focused.

In the case of Graves, I don't think he lacks focus or effort during the games. He's just a limited player. So I wouldn't be all that offended by his jovial nature in game stoppages if I was a UNC fan.

[D.C. Devil]

Clearly it's not fun for the fans in the dome either. There were noticeably empty seats during the first half. At about 4 minutes to go, the place was about 60% empty and by the last minute, it was nearly vacant. Roy will certainly bemoan the lack of fan support. The team certainly is poor, but non-playing attendees vacating the place is just a delight to behold! So- yep- it's still fun for me, too.

But do you think the media will point out that Roy said earlier in the season that there is "nothing" that the fans can do to help this team? According to Roy, wins come from the coaches and players . . .

[Newton_14]

Yeah, I think you're on to something...they looked like a sorry minor league sports team running out the string on a lousy season, and sheepishly wearing some dumb promotional gear.

Not really a team in the sense of togetherness and purpose. Probably couldn't wait to get past the post-game digs from the coach, and get out of the building.

You know, I really really really want them to lose out from here and finish 14 and 18 with no post-season at all. Be so bad they don't even make the new CBI tourney that requires an entry fee. That would be perfect!!

[KandG]

Things are so bad with UNC that even basic math has become problematic:

http://www.rcmweddings.com/unc1.jpg

[jdj4duke]

But do you think the media will point out that Roy said earlier in the season that there is "nothing" that the fans can do to help this team? According to Roy, wins come from the coaches and players . . .

Of course it would be great for the media to query Ol' Roy on that, but we all know better. But following your lead, they are 0 for 3 tonight- no fans, no coaches, and no players. Fran Fraschilla referred to the Heels tonight on Sports Center as the "collection of misfit toys".

Quoting Flounder "Oh boy is this great!" And it will be fun as long as it lasts-

[Newton_14]

I actually don't have a problem with kids having fun during breaks in the action. The game is supposed to be fun. If you can compete to your fullest and still have fun (even if you lose), more power to you. I mean, what are they supposed to do: just sulk away the whole season because they stink?

Now, if you feel that they're not competing hard enough during the actual game, that's a different issue. If being jovial in timeouts results in a lack of focus when the game resumes, then it's a bad thing. But it's certainly possible to have fun during breaks in the action and still remained fully focused.

In the case of Graves, I don't think he lacks focus or effort during the games. He's just a limited player. So I wouldn't be all that offended by his jovial nature in game stoppages if I was a UNC fan.

Yeah I hear you and I am not suggesting it should not be fun. Far from it. What I mean is, I feel a big reason why they are losing is due to the lack of effort, especially on defense. You are right that they should not sulk. I would want my players coming out of that timeout focused as all get out and ready to fight until there is no time left on the clock. Smiling and laughing implies lack of focus, and acceptance of losing yet again like it is no big deal. As a former player I would be so enraged at how the season and current game is going, the last thing you would see me do is laugh. Just my opinion and I respect yours as well. There just isn't any fun or joy in losing to me...

[CrazieDUMB]

You know, I still really enjoy these losses, mostly because I'm watching a UNC team that is completely over losing to another team. It doesn't bother them anymore, they expect it. Never thought I would see that.

The thing I'm curious about, is this really that painful for UNC fans? I think I'd be willing to tolerate a lot if it meant getting a NC. So they have a few bad years, they'll be back. As Bill Simmons says, if a team wins a championship you can't complain for at least 5 years.

Does it bother the fans? Because it sure doesn't seem to bother the players.

[roywhite]

The thing I'm curious about, is this really that painful for UNC fans? I think I'd be willing to tolerate a lot if it meant getting a NC. So they have a few bad years, they'll be back. As Bill Simmons says, if a team wins a championship you can't complain for at least 5 years.

Does it bother the fans? Because it sure doesn't seem to bother the players.

I'm sure it does bother many of the fans, but Carolina seems to have an awful lot of front-runner fans. Support is a mile wide, but an inch or two deep.

Look at the low attendance and early exits at tonight's game. And, really, what self-respecting fan would want to be supporting Roy Williams' recent bizarre behavior?

[moonpie23]

unc fans are arrogant, but bye and large, they know what the deal is with a championship team. They fear the correct things about their opponents, they know their own team's weaknesses (even tho they are to arrogant to admit them) and they know when things are down for more than just a season.


tarheels KNOW that this is NOT just a one-season blemish. Every weakness exposed, every game lost drives another nail into the UNC legacy.


it IS misery for them, cause they know it's not going to be a quick turnaround.

[CDu]

Yeah I hear you and I am not suggesting it should not be fun. Far from it. What I mean is, I feel a big reason why they are losing is due to the lack of effort, especially on defense. You are right that they should not sulk. I would want my players coming out of that timeout focused as all get out and ready to fight until there is no time left on the clock. Smiling and laughing implies lack of focus, and acceptance of losing yet again like it is no big deal. As a former player I would be so enraged at how the season and current game is going, the last thing you would see me do is laugh. Just my opinion and I respect yours as well. There just isn't any fun or joy in losing to me...

I agree that IF laughing is a sign of a lack of focus then it's a problem. But my point is just that you can be jovial up until the time the whistle blows and still be focused once the action starts. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

And no - losing isn't fun. I hated losing too. But there's no point in letting it break your spirit. Graves is a jovial guy. I say (again - as long as it isn't actually evidence of lack of focus) good for him for maintaining his spirit.

[OldSchool]

One surprising thing about UNC's spectacular flop of a season is Ol' Roy's coaching reaction to it.

From all I can tell, it appears Roy's coaching technique applied to his team can be summed entirely in the direction to his team to "try harder."

Now of course we haven't seen what goes on at practices but the public comments and criticisms by Ol' Roy seem to have absolutely no basketball specifics about them.

Does his coaching consist of more than just rolling the ball out and yelling at them to try harder?

[superdave]

One surprising thing about UNC's spectacular flop of a season is Ol' Roy's coaching reaction to it.

From all I can tell, it appears Roy's coaching technique applied to his team can be summed entirely in the direction to his team to "try harder."

Now of course we haven't seen what goes on at practices but the public comments and criticisms by Ol' Roy seem to have absolutely no basketball specifics about them.

Does his coaching consist of more than just rolling the ball out and yelling at them to try harder?

It worked for Homer Simpson when he became a manager at work.

[roywhite]

And no - losing isn't fun. I hated losing too. But there's no point in letting it break your spirit. Graves is a jovial guy. I say (again - as long as it isn't actually evidence of lack of focus) good for him for maintaining his spirit.

Not a bad night for Graves...he had 21 points and 6 rebounds...game would have been even worse for the Heels without Graves' good shooting.

By the way, we got a Chickie Yonakor/"AirBall" reference and anniversary mention tonight. 31 years ago...7-0 at halftime.

[OldSchool]

31 years ago...7-0 at halftime.

That first half was a disgraceful display of basketball cowardice by Dean E. Smith.

It was rich that the second half ended up tied 40-40 so that in losing the game Dean was appropriately hoist by his own petard.

[kong123]

Sure, it bothers me a lot, but what can I do? There hasn't been a single bit of improvement since January 1st. Each game, I watch and hope that something has been figured out, but nothing has. The team has no chemistry, on or off the court, the effort isn't there nor are the simple fundamentals. Even if a player lacks the ability to shoot a three or dunk the ball, at least he should be able to dribble the ball and pass the ball. This team simply cannot consistently do either. Teams shoot the ball extremely well again UNC as well. If a team has open looks all day long, they still do not shoot over 40 percent, even in practice. But in games against UNC, teams just light us up. Even with a great defensive effort, they simply knock shots down. In the end, I have been angry, continue to be angry and really disappointed, but at some point you have to let go. I do not believe this group is capable of being coached. The players are lost and no one will be able to find them, except if you look in the loss column. Next year, what will change? We will have a true point guard to back Drew II up, but will the frosh be able to come in and help? Will Henson get stronger, learn how to be an offensive presence, and will he learn to take advantage of his freaky athletic ability. Can we stay healthy? Is there a leader in the locker room? Will HB be the scoring presence we need? Will Davis comeback? Do we want him to comeback considering the type of presence he is in the locker room? What will happen? Trust me, we are upset and terribly concerned that we could have another down year next year. But... I still think we can beat Duke in Cameron this year, for the 5th year in a row! ;)

[Duvall]

But... I still think we can beat Duke in Cameron this year, for the 5th year in a row! ;)

Why?

[jv001]

Sure, it bothers me a lot, but what can I do? There hasn't been a single bit of improvement since January 1st. But... I still think we can beat Duke in Cameron this year, for the 5th year in a row! ;)

Most tarheel fans are like the cubs..wait till next yearand if you really think they will win in CIS, then you must think the tarheel will shoot and defend better than they have all year. Well it could happen, because Duke gets everyone's best shot.
But don't bet any money on that happening this year. Go Duke!

[roywhite]

Sure, it bothers me a lot, but what can I do? There hasn't been a single bit of improvement since January 1st. Each game, I watch and hope that something has been figured out, but nothing has. The team has no chemistry, on or off the court, the effort isn't there nor are the simple fundamentals. Even if a player lacks the ability to shoot a three or dunk the ball, at least he should be able to dribble the ball and pass the ball. This team simply cannot consistently do either. Teams shoot the ball extremely well again UNC as well. If a team has open looks all day long, they still do not shoot over 40 percent, even in practice. But in games against UNC, teams just light us up. Even with a great defensive effort, they simply knock shots down. In the end, I have been angry, continue to be angry and really disappointed, but at some point you have to let go. I do not believe this group is capable of being coached. The players are lost and no one will be able to find them, except if you look in the loss column. Next year, what will change? We will have a true point guard to back Drew II up, but will the frosh be able to come in and help? Will Henson get stronger, learn how to be an offensive presence, and will he learn to take advantage of his freaky athletic ability. Can we stay healthy? Is there a leader in the locker room? Will HB be the scoring presence we need? Will Davis comeback? Do we want him to comeback considering the type of presence he is in the locker room? What will happen? Trust me, we are upset and terribly concerned that we could have another down year next year. But... I still think we can beat Duke in Cameron this year, for the 5th year in a row! ;)

kong, you're a loyal fan and you've showed up on a tough night, so I'll give you a straight answer or at least my opinion.

To this year's team...it's a lost season; the coach and players have not connected, mostly the fault of the coach. It's been a tough year for injuries; the upperclassmen have not provided leadership. The shooting success other teams have against the Heels is not coincidence; their perimeter defense is poor; they give up a lot of clear looks from 3-point territory and teams take advantage.

To next year's team, I think the Heels will be quite good, and that new talent and a fresh start will overcome the ill effects of this season. The outside shooting will be better, the defense will be better, and Coach Roy is likely to show a little more patience and encouragement with the next group.

just my .02...by the way, don't count on a win in Cameron.

[kong123]

Why? Because I am a UNC fan! If I believed/admitted that I didn't believe that they could you would call me a fair weather fan.

[kong123]

You know, the coach doesn't dribble the ball and make the errant passes. The coach doesn't box out after a shot and he doesn't take the shot. I can understand how you feel about Roy, we feel the same way about Coach K. Both camps view the other coach with a certain shade of glasses that probably taints our individual perceptions. The truth is, the coach tries to put his players in a position to win. For the 18 years, Roy has done a pretty good job. He has/had the best winning percentage of any active coach, what does that say? People here have said that Roy has made it too much about him, I would say that perhaps he is trying to accept the blame and shield his failing team from the responsibility. But, that is perspective of a UNC fan. He isn't a great X's and O's coach, he is stingy with his TO's, and he doesn't appear very flexible when it comes to adapting his system to his current roster. But, he is a great recruiter and kids want to play for him. So, all in all, we got what we've got and we will move forward and see what happens.

[6th Man]

But... I still think we can beat Duke in Cameron this year, for the 5th year in a row! ;)

Spoken like a true Tarheel. I think Dean Smith invented the little "zinger". Since we are talking about the past...I see Duke going on a run like they did from '99-'05 where we won 15 out of 18 games.

[natedog4ever]

To next year's team, I think the Heels will be quite good, and that new talent and a fresh start will overcome the ill effects of this season. The outside shooting will be better, the defense will be better, and Coach Roy is likely to show a little more patience and encouragement with the next group.




This has become the most interesting story line for me. Even many UNC fans are sobering to the fact that an immediate return to the top is not a given. I do believe that preparation H will help sooth the Roy'ds, but I don’t think it's a foregone conclusion that they challenge for tops in the ACC next year. I think they may be a couple of years away from where they really want to be.

Do you think they get 20 wins next year?

[kong123]

Yeah, 20 wins is doable. What about Duke, if Singler goes pro, 2/3's of your scoring and leadership is gone. Will Duke suffer a down year like UNC's year this year? Will a bunch of freshman and sophomores be able to make up the difference and consistently score enough to challenge for an ACC title? I haven't seen a breakout performance out of anyone other than the three S's that would cause me to feel good about next year if I were a Duke fan.

[striker219]

Loved this from the recap at ESPN.com

"Meanwhile, the scene here is getting uglier by the day -- and that's not even counting the sight of injured big men Ed Davis (wrist), Travis Wear (ankle) and David Wear (hip) sitting on the bench. There's a growing number of empty blue seats in the upstairs of the Smith Center with each game, while the students are starting to abandon the typically coveted spots on the risers -- they filled maybe two-thirds of that section Wednesday -- behind the basket near the home bench."

And on a different note, any good quotes from Roy postgame? Is he still working on that future insanity defense?

[natedog4ever]

And on a different note, any good quotes from Roy postgame? Is he still working on that future insanity defense?

Not really. He just sounds checked out. They even tried to goad him into one of his rants on the Dome crowd, and he wouldn't budge. Just said "it is what it is."

[jimsumner]

"Will UNC finish alone in LAST place in the ACC? When was the last time that happened?"

UNC has never finished alone in last place in the ACC.

[natedog4ever]

Yeah, 20 wins is doable. What about Duke, if Singler goes pro, 2/3's of your scoring and leadership is gone. Will Duke suffer a down year like UNC's year this year? Will a bunch of freshman and sophomores be able to make up the difference and consistently score enough to challenge for an ACC title? I haven't seen a breakout performance out of anyone other than the three S's that would cause me to feel good about next year if I were a Duke fan.

I didn't ask if it was "doable", I said do you think they get 20 wins? (And I was really asking Roy, not you. But whatever.)

I'm putting the over/under at 19.5.

As for Duke - anything is possible, as Roy has more than proven! But for a bunch of reasons, no matter who goes pro, it won't be this bad.

[roywhite]

I didn't ask if it was "doable", I said do you think they get 20 wins? (And I was really asking Roy, not you. But whatever.)

I'm putting the over/under at 19.5.
As for Duke - anything is possible, as Roy has more than proven! But for a bunch of reasons, no matter who goes pro, it won't be this bad.

Don't know what their out-of-conference schedule will be, and whether they have an early season tournament like Maui, etc. so I won't guess at their overall win total.

I'd say they could be something like 10-6 in the ACC. Which is much improved from this year, obviously, but below where they have been the last several years. Biggest question mark will be point guard.

[gep]

I'd say... at least for next year, unc will not be much better unless one or more incoming freshmen can make an impact and be a leader. The "culture" of this unc team has been set, and unless someone steps up, whoever comes back next year already has this year's mindset. Maybe ol'Roy will be the one to step up, but given his recent "performance", I would highly doubt it...

[El_Diablo]

Not really. He just sounds checked out. They even tried to goad him into one of his rants on the Dome crowd, and he wouldn't budge. Just said "it is what it is."

Kübler-Ross, fifth stage. About time.

[SupaDave]

Yeah, 20 wins is doable. What about Duke, if Singler goes pro, 2/3's of your scoring and leadership is gone. Will Duke suffer a down year like UNC's year this year? Will a bunch of freshman and sophomores be able to make up the difference and consistently score enough to challenge for an ACC title? I haven't seen a breakout performance out of anyone other than the three S's that would cause me to feel good about next year if I were a Duke fan.

We actually feel pretty good about what we will look like next year. Either way - we have no reason to believe that Coach K wont adjust to the players he has regardless of the circumstances.

[COYS]

We actually feel pretty good about what we will look like next year. Either way - we have no reason to believe that Coach K wont adjust to the players he has regardless of the circumstances.

Duke will really only have one true freshman expected to make huge contributions (Irving). Smith has already shown leadership ability and I think that will only improve next year. Curry wont be a true frosh and intact will be more like a sophomore after a year practicing with the team (this of course follows a year being the best frosh scorer in NCAA basketball). UNC's problem has been that the frosh weren't ready to be the man forthe team and the vets didn't have the skill. Nolan has already proven he can be the man for duke on any given night. He is already far above where graves, ginyard, and drew are this year. It is true duke may take a step back, but it will certainly not be as dramatic as UNC's. I agree with supadave. Oh yah, and hopefully we'll be healthier.

[El_Diablo]

http://media2.newsobserver.com/smedia/2010/02/24/23/FSU__77_at_UNC_67___02.24.10_c4gCPFdo_0009.embedde d.prod_affiliate.156.JPG

[Richard Berg]

^ Eww. That's almost Kris Lang territory.

[airowe]

http://media2.newsobserver.com/smedia/2010/02/24/23/FSU__77_at_UNC_67___02.24.10_c4gCPFdo_0009.embedde d.prod_affiliate.156.JPG

He wanted to be Like Mike too, but gravity had a little different effect on Air Graves than it did on Air Jordan.

"It's gotta be the (ma)sh(ed potat)oes."

http://www.nbaloud.com/userimages/user1195_1152781976.jpg

[-bdbd]

You know, the coach doesn't dribble the ball and make the errant passes. The coach doesn't box out after a shot and he doesn't take the shot. I can understand how you feel about Roy, we feel the same way about Coach K. Both camps view the other coach with a certain shade of glasses that probably taints our individual perceptions. The truth is, the coach tries to put his players in a position to win. For the 18 years, Roy has done a pretty good job. He has/had the best winning percentage of any active coach, what does that say? ...I would say that perhaps he is trying to accept the blame and shield his failing team... But, that is perspective of a UNC fan. He isn't a great X's and O's coach... he doesn't appear very flexible when it comes to adapting his system to his current roster. But, he is a great recruiter and kids want to play for him....

Kong - 'first I wanted to acknowledge your, um, bravery in posting over here given the situation w/ NC@CH and their coach. The civility of the conversation is good to see. (Can you imagine this sort of civility between rivals on fan boards at KY or UCONN or MD???!)

But I do want to reply to some of the points you make above.
(1) coach doesn't dribble the ball and make the errant passes. The coach doesn't box out after a shot and he doesn't take the shot. No, but the coach is the guy who recruited these players, chose who he wanted to be in his program -- not like Carolina missed out on all of the "good" recruits and these, um, characters were who they were stuck with... And it is the coach who is supposed to TEACH and MOTIVATE them into doing those basic mainstays consistently.

(2) For the 18 years, Roy has done a pretty good job. He has/had the best winning percentage of any active coach, what does that say?
It says that he's been very fortunate to coach at 2 huge state schools schools with huge fanbases, resources, traditions, etc. This year, more than ever, Roy has shown how well he can coach with only "very good" talent. (Don't forget how many McD AA's he's got/wasted on this team.)

(3) People here have said that Roy has made it too much about him, I would say that perhaps he is trying to accept the blame and shield his failing team from the responsibility.
I don't fault them for bringing at least some attention on themselves - most of them NEED big egos to accomplish their very visible jobs. But Roy has brought incredibly BAD attention onto himself and his program, repeatedly, this year. How does it "help his team" having an opposing fan thrown out for yelling something (not obscene) to one of his players in the midst of a 40-point blow-out? And then refusing to later apologize, and allowing the AAD to libel and slander the poor kid to the media.? More to the point, his public denunciations of some of his players' efforts can in NO way be contorted into "shielding his failing team." Come'on.

(4) He isn't a great X's and O's coach... doesn't appear very flexible when it comes to adapting his system to his current roster.
IN SPADES about the X's and O's stuff! Same for 'adapting his system.' In fact, that is one of the absolute TOP things that many of us like about K -- he really seems to revel in and be refreshed by the annual challenge of adapting the "system" to optimize the talents of his players (one of the reasons we can't wait to see what he'll do next year with PG Irving and 2G Curry!).

(5) But, he is a great recruiter and kids want to play for him.
'ole Huck IS a good recruiter, no doubt, but it is at least partially (if not majority, judging by this year's team) due to the attraction NOT of playing for HIM, but rather of playing in front of 20,000 adoring fans, at a huge state school (r-e-s-o-u-r-c-e-s) in a state where the fans and (much of the) media diefy those NC@CH players, with the best facillities/resources in the nation ($$$!), under that winning tradition and rubbing elbows with those alumni. I believe Roy is just a small part of that equation (and getting smaller).

The thing that has truly struck me about this UNC team has been how they just totally gave up as a group. That has NEVER happened to Coach K. Even in '95 with K in the hospital, etc. the team NEVER gave up - despite accumulating losses - and was in virtually every game for coach Gaudet, very frequently against ranked competition, like Kerlina (top 10 ranked team taken to OT) - losing an incredible number of games in the last minute to much higher ranked/viewed opponents.

Lastly, as for your question about Duke possibly dipping next year w/o a Scheyer/Thomas/Singler? Well, what was the expectation of THIS year's team after losing Henderson and Williams?? Certainly not as high as the expectations of UNC (look at the preseason polls). K will adapt, and get the max from his palyers. He always does.

:rolleyes:

[Greg_Newton]

I know it's too easy, but you can't tell me the resemblance isn't striking...

http://i.pbase.com/o6/29/699429/1/84337426.EiZYybZJ.YG8Y1290.jpg

[gep]

(5) But, he is a great recruiter and kids want to play for him.
'ole Huck IS a good recruiter, no doubt, but it is at least partially (if not majority, judging by this year's team) due to the attraction NOT of playing for HIM, but rather of playing in front of 20,000 adoring fans, at a huge state school (r-e-s-o-u-r-c-e-s) in a state where the fans and (much of the) media diefy those NC@CH players, with the best facillities/resources in the nation ($$$!), under that winning tradition and rubbing elbows with those alumni. I believe Roy is just a small part of that equation (and getting smaller).


After all, Doh successfully recruited McCants, Mays, and Felton to unc... :D

[devildownunder]

This is starting to become unfun. I don't even care that UNC lost, and that sucks. At this point it means nothing

Never gets old for me!

[striker219]

Never gets old for me!

I mean absolutely no disrespect to RelativeWays, and I can not stress that enough, but if their losing season is getting old to you you haven't been watching for long enough.

[LSanders]

I mean absolutely no disrespect to RelativeWays, and I can not stress that enough, but if their losing season is getting old to you you haven't been watching for long enough.

Amen ... And, the feeling is mutual ... From IC:


Do we pull for Duke in the NCAA Tournament?

Since the ACC is down this year, should we cheer for Duke to do well in the NCAA Tournament so that the conference's reputation improves?


Re: Do we pull for Duke in the NCAA Tournament?

May be the worst post I have ever read.


Re: Do we pull for Duke in the NCAA Tournament?

You post like UNC plays.

[striker219]

Re: Do we pull for Duke in the NCAA Tournament?

You post like UNC plays.[/I]

For a kerlina fan that dude really knows what he's talking about.

[snowdenscold]

Amen ... And, the feeling is mutual ... From IC:


Do we pull for Duke in the NCAA Tournament?

Since the ACC is down this year, should we cheer for Duke to do well in the NCAA Tournament so that the conference's reputation improves?


Re: Do we pull for Duke in the NCAA Tournament?

May be the worst post I have ever read.


Re: Do we pull for Duke in the NCAA Tournament?

You post like UNC plays.

That is absolutely hilarious. Well played, Mr. Carolina fan.

[oldnavy]

Kong - 'first I wanted to acknowledge your, um, bravery in posting over here given the situation w/ NC@CH and their coach. The civility of the conversation is good to see. (Can you imagine this sort of civility between rivals on fan boards at KY or UCONN or MD???!)

But I do want to reply to some of the points you make above.
(1) coach doesn't dribble the ball and make the errant passes. The coach doesn't box out after a shot and he doesn't take the shot. No, but the coach is the guy who recruited these players, chose who he wanted to be in his program -- not like Carolina missed out on all of the "good" recruits and these, um, characters were who they were stuck with... And it is the coach who is supposed to TEACH and MOTIVATE them into doing those basic mainstays consistently.
(2) For the 18 years, Roy has done a pretty good job. He has/had the best winning percentage of any active coach, what does that say?
It says that he's been very fortunate to coach at 2 huge state schools schools with huge fanbases, resources, traditions, etc. This year, more than ever, Roy has shown how well he can coach with only "very good" talent. (Don't forget how many McD AA's he's got/wasted on this team.)

(3) People here have said that Roy has made it too much about him, I would say that perhaps he is trying to accept the blame and shield his failing team from the responsibility.
I don't fault them for bringing at least some attention on themselves - most of them NEED big egos to accomplish their very visible jobs. But Roy has brought incredibly BAD attention onto himself and his program, repeatedly, this year. How does it "help his team" having an opposing fan thrown out for yelling something (not obscene) to one of his players in the midst of a 40-point blow-out? And then refusing to later apologize, and allowing the AAD to libel and slander the poor kid to the media.? More to the point, his public denunciations of some of his players' efforts can in NO way be contorted into "shielding his failing team." Come'on.

(4) He isn't a great X's and O's coach... doesn't appear very flexible when it comes to adapting his system to his current roster.
IN SPADES about the X's and O's stuff! Same for 'adapting his system.' In fact, that is one of the absolute TOP things that many of us like about K -- he really seems to revel in and be refreshed by the annual challenge of adapting the "system" to optimize the talents of his players (one of the reasons we can't wait to see what he'll do next year with PG Irving and 2G Curry!).

(5) But, he is a great recruiter and kids want to play for him.
'ole Huck IS a good recruiter, no doubt, but it is at least partially (if not majority, judging by this year's team) due to the attraction NOT of playing for HIM, but rather of playing in front of 20,000 adoring fans, at a huge state school (r-e-s-o-u-r-c-e-s) in a state where the fans and (much of the) media diefy those NC@CH players, with the best facillities/resources in the nation ($$$!), under that winning tradition and rubbing elbows with those alumni. I believe Roy is just a small part of that equation (and getting smaller).

The thing that has truly struck me about this UNC team has been how they just totally gave up as a group. That has NEVER happened to Coach K. Even in '95 with K in the hospital, etc. the team NEVER gave up - despite accumulating losses - and was in virtually every game for coach Gaudet, very frequently against ranked competition, like Kerlina (top 10 ranked team taken to OT) - losing an incredible number of games in the last minute to much higher ranked/viewed opponents.

Lastly, as for your question about Duke possibly dipping next year w/o a Scheyer/Thomas/Singler? Well, what was the expectation of THIS year's team after losing Henderson and Williams?? Certainly not as high as the expectations of UNC (look at the preseason polls). K will adapt, and get the max from his palyers. He always does.

:rolleyes:

Roy has done nothing but distance himself from these players. Rarely does he use the word "we" when talking about this team. The blame is solely Roy's. He has taken kids that have never been anything but winners at each level and taught them how to lose, and now they are learning to accept losing. Plain and simple, you can see it in their faces. He has done a perfectly miserable job coaching this squad...period. Forget economical down turns, he should give back his salary for the sorry job performance if for no other reason!

[CameronBornAndBred]

That team has collectively quit. They can say they haven't to the media, but they show a different story on the court.

[whereinthehellami]

You know, I still really enjoy these losses, mostly because I'm watching a UNC team that is completely over losing to another team. It doesn't bother them anymore, they expect it. Never thought I would see that.

This is the most striking part of UNC sucking. They have all accepted it. UNC sucks and they know it.


http://media2.newsobserver.com/smedia/2010/02/24/23/FSU__77_at_UNC_67___02.24.10_c4gCPFdo_0009.embedde d.prod_affiliate.156.JPG

Great pic. And he has another year next year. Excellent (accompanied with my Smithers voice).

Sports radio in DC was talking this morning about how much better Gary Williams would have done coaching the talent that UNC has. And they do have talent. My question would be, is there another coach in the ACC that would have have screwed up the coaching job in Chapel Hill more than Roy Willimas? It took real talent to do what Roy has done!

Also they looked rediculous last night in those Unis.

[Acymetric]

This is the most striking part of UNC sucking. They have all accepted it. UNC sucks and they know it.



Great pic. And he has another year next year. Excellent (accompanied with my Smithers voice).

Sports radio in DC was talking this morning about how much better Gary Williams would have done coaching the talent that UNC has. And they do have talent. My question would be, is there another coach in the ACC that would have have screwed up the coaching job in Chapel Hill more than Roy Willimas? It took real talent to do what Roy has done!

Also they looked rediculous last night in those Unis.

Paul Hewitt?

[dukelifer]

Yeah, 20 wins is doable. What about Duke, if Singler goes pro, 2/3's of your scoring and leadership is gone. Will Duke suffer a down year like UNC's year this year? Will a bunch of freshman and sophomores be able to make up the difference and consistently score enough to challenge for an ACC title? I haven't seen a breakout performance out of anyone other than the three S's that would cause me to feel good about next year if I were a Duke fan.

Well there is an X factor on the bench- Seth Curry who has practiced all year with the team and has been reported to be comparable to the three S's- but that remains to be seen. But your point is valid- having senior leadership and experience is VERY important- regardless of the talent level on the court- but Smith (assuming he stays) looks to be at an All-ACC and perhaps ACC POY level and should be able to provide that leadership. Whether Duke will have a down year depends on how well they play D. They should be able to pressure more than this year and that should help a lot- Duke should also be quicker in the backcourt which will help thei big guys. So if Singler goes it will be interesting- but a team that values D like Duke does- tends to win.

[moonpie23]

i'm not a betting man, but, i'll bet we have a winning season next year !!

[davekay1971]

Yeah, 20 wins is doable. What about Duke, if Singler goes pro, 2/3's of your scoring and leadership is gone. Will Duke suffer a down year like UNC's year this year? Will a bunch of freshman and sophomores be able to make up the difference and consistently score enough to challenge for an ACC title? I haven't seen a breakout performance out of anyone other than the three S's that would cause me to feel good about next year if I were a Duke fan.

This is what makes Carolina fans so much fun. Really? Your team, after being preseason number 4, is likely to miss the NIT...making them arguably the single biggest disappointment in the history of college basketball, and you're going to talk about how good Duke fans should feel about the state of their program? OK.

But, hey, I'll play, let's take a look at Duke 2010-2011.

Duke loses Scheyer, Zoubs, and Thomas, all valuable contributors.

At this point there is no indication that Singler will go pro after this year.

Smith looks to definitely be back. So we will return two very good, probably 1st or 2nd team all-ACC, scorers.

Not a bad foundation.

So, how does the perimeter look next year? We return (probably) Singler, Smith, and Dawkins. Curry comes in, and we've got Kyrie Irving and Tyler Thornton coming in. Scheyer is irreplaceable, but Irving has an excellent chance of being able to come in and immediately produce at the point position. Between he and Smith, we'll be okay at the point, and Smith, Dawkins, and Curry will be very solid perimeter scoring at the two. So, even if Thornton is not ready to contribute, the perimeter looks solid (probably one of the best in the country if Singler returns)

How about the paint? Losing Zoubs and Thomas leaves us with the Plumlees, Kelly, and Hairston. Questions aplenty, no doubt. Will Miles and Mason make a significant improvement over the summer? Will Hairston be able to contribute significantly as a freshman? Will Kelly be able to bulk up enough to add interior defense and rebounding to his outside shooting skills? Jumbo will undoubtedly discuss all these questions in detail and with fantastic insight in Phase 0 2010-2011.

So how should Duke fans feel about what we've probably got coming back, definitely got coming back, and the new contributors coming in? Probably pretty good. We've got a good foundation with some questions that will determine whether we're a national championship contender or just a good team.

[jv001]

This is what makes Carolina fans so much fun. Really? Your team, after being preseason number 4, is likely to miss the NIT...making them arguably the single biggest disappointment in the history of college basketball, and you're going to talk about how good Duke fans should feel about the state of their program? OK.

But, hey, I'll play, let's take a look at Duke 2010-2011.

Duke loses Scheyer, Zoubs, and Thomas, all valuable contributors.

At this point there is no indication that Singler will go pro after this year.

Smith looks to definitely be back. So we will return two very good, probably 1st or 2nd team all-ACC, scorers.

Not a bad foundation.

So, how does the perimeter look next year? We return (probably) Singler, Smith, and Dawkins. Curry comes in, and we've got Kyrie Irving and Tyler Thornton coming in. Scheyer is irreplaceable, but Irving has an excellent chance of being able to come in and immediately produce at the point position. Between he and Smith, we'll be okay at the point, and Smith, Dawkins, and Curry will be very solid perimeter scoring at the two. So, even if Thornton is not ready to contribute, the perimeter looks solid (probably one of the best in the country if Singler returns)

How about the paint? Losing Zoubs and Thomas leaves us with the Plumlees, Kelly, and Hairston. Questions aplenty, no doubt. Will Miles and Mason make a significant improvement over the summer? Will Hairston be able to contribute significantly as a freshman? Will Kelly be able to bulk up enough to add interior defense and rebounding to his outside shooting skills? Jumbo will undoubtedly discuss all these questions in detail and with fantastic insight in Phase 0 2010-2011.

So how should Duke fans feel about what we've probably got coming back, definitely got coming back, and the new contributors coming in? Probably pretty good. We've got a good foundation with some questions that will determine whether we're a national championship contender or just a good team.

You left out the most important. We have Coach K and they have ole roy. Now don't get me wrong. roy is a good recruiter but he's proven he can do less with more than any div 1 coach this year. Go Duke!

[InSpades]

Duke will lose anywhere from 2.5-3.5 starters (giving Zoubs a half) off of a top 5 team in the country. UNC will lose 2-3 starters off of a .500 team. Which of these teams would you be more worried about next year? Davis is just as likely to go pro (if not moreso) than Singler.

If Singler comes back... Duke is pre-season top 5, picked to win the ACC and make a strong run at a final four. I'm pretty sure Singler slides back to the 4, starting lineup of Irving, Curry, Smith, Singler, Plumlee. Any coach in the country would sign up for that in a heartbeat.

If Singler doesn't come back... Duke is pre-season top 10, still probably picked to win the ACC and will be expected to be a Sweet 16 team again. Duke will be a big man stepping up away from being very very good again.

I'm not too worried about next year... but I bet UNC fans are.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

What about Duke, if Singler goes pro, 2/3's of your scoring and leadership is gone. Will Duke suffer a down year like UNC's year this year?

I don't mean to pile on kong123, but this comment echoes what was being said during last night's game by Patrick/Davis. The argument is that UNC is bad this year because they lost 4 really good players. No one could possibly field a decent team after losing such amazing players (like Danny Green?).

ESPN then used the recent UF team as an example of how teams are bad after losing their biggest contributors of a national championship run. What about the 99-00 Duke team (ACC Champs) that lost Brand, Avery, Langdon, Maggette, and Burgess from the year before?

I know I shouldn't expect thorough reasoning from ESPN, but it seems that not only are they shying away from giving Roy any blame for this season, they are actively looking for other reasons. I would like to hear once someone say "Williams has done a poor job this year".

[monkey]

I don't mean to pile on kong123, but this comment echoes what was being said during last night's game by Patrick/Davis. The argument is that UNC is bad this year because they lost 4 really good players. No one could possibly field a decent team after losing such amazing players (like Danny Green?).

ESPN then used the recent UF team as an example of how teams are bad after losing their biggest contributors of a national championship run. What about the 99-00 Duke team (ACC Champs) that lost Brand, Avery, Langdon, Maggette, and Burgess from the year before?

I know I shouldn't expect thorough reasoning from ESPN, but it seems that not only are they shying away from giving Roy any blame for this season, they are actively looking for other reasons. I would like to hear once someone say "Williams has done a poor job this year".

I take your point but I think the comparison to Duke 99-00 isn't fully fair - everyone expected Duke to be down that year (and they were versus 98-99), with possible exception of Carrawell, Battier and James who took the bull by the horns ... that such team performed so well that year (and it was a great year, a fun team to watch) was an incredible achievement, not something that is commonplace or should be expected of others...

[camion]

I don't mean to pile on kong123, but this comment echoes what was being said during last night's game by Patrick/Davis. The argument is that UNC is bad this year because they lost 4 really good players. No one could possibly field a decent team after losing such amazing players (like Danny Green?).

ESPN then used the recent UF team as an example of how teams are bad after losing their biggest contributors of a national championship run. What about the 99-00 Duke team (ACC Champs) that lost Brand, Avery, Langdon, Maggette, and Burgess from the year before?

I know I shouldn't expect thorough reasoning from ESPN, but it seems that not only are they shying away from giving Roy any blame for this season, they are actively looking for other reasons. I would like to hear once someone say "Williams has done a poor job this year".

To be fair K had Carrawell, James and Battier to build the 99-00 team around. Scanning the UNC roster I don't see a Battier in the bunch. :)

Cough, (leadership) cough.

[jdj4duke]

I would like to hear once someone say "Williams has done a poor job this year".

Go to IC; there are hundreds if not thousands of statements to that effect. Whether anyone outside disgruntled Univ. of Nike Carolina fans or chortling ABC'ers voice that opinion, well of course that is another story.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

To be fair K had Carrawell, James and Battier to build the 99-00 team around. Scanning the UNC roster I don't see a Battier in the bunch. :)

Cough, (leadership) cough.

I do agree that they don't have the same level of players that we did. But does that make Roy's a bad recruiter? I certainly haven't heard anyone mention that on air either.

We could say Duke played to its maximum ability that year, and UNC is playing to its minimum this, but doesn't that only make it more apparent that Roy is doing a poor job?

Ultimately, my point is that it's silly to blame their .500 season (thus far) on them losing a bunch of good players.

[alteran]

By the way, we got a Chickie Yonakor/"AirBall" reference and anniversary mention tonight. 31 years ago...7-0 at halftime.

Perhaps UNC could wear commemorative jerseys.

I suggest yellow.

[oldnavy]

Perhaps UNC could wear commemorative jerseys.

I have to tell this story about that Chickie Yonaker "air ball game". I was in high school and attending the game on a concession pass, which allowed me to get on the floor level. The place was packed, and my friend and I sat down on the court on the sideline near the baseline facing the duke bench. We were so close to being on the court that we had to sit Indian style so that our legs would not be on the court itself. As the game proceeded, we continually shifted down toward mid court a little at a time. We ended up around the free-throw line when it was all said and done. Yonaker's 1st air ball (if I remember correctly 2 were taken) was taken from the corner in front of the tarheel bench, and the chant just began spontaneously. At the time, I didn't give it much thought, other than to join in and get a laugh. Only later when the chant took on a life of its own did I realize I had witnessed and participated in sporting history. That game also saw Yonaker get “chippy” with Gene Banks, which I think would have been the most mismatched fight of all times had it actually come to blows... Over all it was a very entertaining game and one I will obviously remember forever!
God I love CIS!!

[jimsumner]

UNC's other first half-airball in that '79 game was a midcourt shot by Dave Colescott just before the buzzer.

The game did indeed get chippy. Mike Gminski was ejected late for an elbow to the head of Al Wood during a rebound scrum. And Gminski was about the last guy on the planet one would expect to be ejected.

[alteran]

I have to tell this story about that Chickie Yonaker "air ball game". I was in high school and attending the game on a concession pass, which allowed me to get on the floor level. The place was packed, and my friend and I sat down on the court on the sideline near the baseline facing the duke bench. We were so close to being on the court that we had to sit Indian style so that our legs would not be on the court itself. As the game proceeded, we continually shifted down toward mid court a little at a time. We ended up around the free-throw line when it was all said and done. Yonaker's 1st air ball (if I remember correctly 2 were taken) was taken from the corner in front of the tarheel bench, and the chant just began spontaneously. At the time, I didn't give it much thought, other than to join in and get a laugh. Only later when the chant took on a life of its own did I realize I had witnessed and participated in sporting history. That game also saw Yonaker get “chippy” with Gene Banks, which I think would have been the most mismatched fight of all times had it actually come to blows... Over all it was a very entertaining game and one I will obviously remember forever!
God I love CIS!!

Great story-- sure beats mine, which follows.

I was maybe 12. My folks always held a party after the Duke-UNC games. All their season ticket holder friends were there, plus a few extras-- and even the odd (okay, they're ALL odd) Carolina fan. Maybe 50 people.

My job was to use this device my father borrowed from who knows where to print matchbooks with the game score on them, and have them ready by the game's end-- as party favors.

It was a coveted job, and I took it very seriously.

At halftime, in a fit of zeal, I printed a "Duke 7, Carolina - ha ha ha" matchbook cover for my dad. When he got home and I gave it to him, he totally loved it. He showed it to everybody.

For the rest of the party, people kept bugging me to print them the same matchbook, and I enjoyed it every single time.

Great game, good times. And like you said above-- made all the better by Dean hoisting himself on his own strategery.

[alteran]

UNC's other first half-airball in that '79 game was a midcourt shot by Dave Colescott just before the buzzer.

The game did indeed get chippy. Mike Gminski was ejected late for an elbow to the head of Al Wood during a rebound scrum. And Gminski was about the last guy on the planet one would expect to be ejected.

I'm still mad about that call, Jim. Get real, Lenny. (I'm just assuming it was Lenny Wirtz-- that kind of ridiculous, potentially game-wrecking call has all the hallmarks of the Lenster.)

I woulda sworn that was a different game, though (one we lost) -- but I defer to your obviously superior historical knowledge.

[moonpie23]

wait....how many wins DID the nose get with the infamous CHICKEN-****-STALL BALL?


can they be vacated? or could we just vacate them ourselves? you know....like that banner in the nose-dome that doesn't count?

K might have already passed deano...

[brevity]

I do agree that they don't have the same level of players that we did. But does that make Roy's a bad recruiter? I certainly haven't heard anyone mention that on air either.

I've been wondering if anyone was going to hint at this. Probably a better topic for the offseason (ours in April, not Carolina's in March), but I'm gradually come to the conclusion that Roy Williams' massive success and reputation as a recruiter has actually started to hurt his ability to build a team.

If you could get any player you want, wouldn't you become a little lazy as an evaluator of talent? I think we're starting to see the answer with UNC this season, but it should become even more apparent in the seasons to come. The NBA-ready players may or may not be a quick fix, but the 4-year players need to be more solid and more loyal to the program to ensure consistency and a continued level of success. I'm just not seeing that in the current UNC upperclassmen.

[CDu]

Why? Because I am a UNC fan! If I believed/admitted that I didn't believe that they could you would call me a fair weather fan.

A UNC fan who apparently likes to occasionally masquerade as a Duke fan on a Duke message board... hmm. :rolleyes:

[shoutingncu]

How does it "help his team" having an opposing fan thrown out for yelling something (not obscene) to one of his players in the midst of a 40-point blow-out?

Remember the good ol' days of 40 point blow-outs? Those were nice.