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Go 2 Hell Carolina
02-22-2010, 10:44 AM
Apparently we are now recruiting Michael Haynes in the 2010 class (He was at the VT game). Does anyone know anything about him?

jimrowe0
02-22-2010, 10:50 AM
He is a power foward out of Virginia that is 6'6" 225 pounds. He is physically very strong, rebounds well, and is a force around the basket. He has started to develop a medium range game, but hasn't full developed his ability to consistently hit jump shots. Hes a little rough around the edges, but works hard and is physical presence. Thats about all I have heard...

Bluedog
02-22-2010, 11:09 AM
Based on what I've read, it sounds like he's actually from Chicago, not Virginia. He was at Fenger High School in Chicago as part of the Class of 2009. This year he's playing at the Heat Basketball Academy in Virginia. So, I'm not sure if he already graduated, is taking a fifth year, or what. Used to be 6'6" 180. Has gained about 40 pounds since then. Rivals says he has offers from Marquette and South Florida. His complete list includes Duke, Marquette, Xavier, South Florida and Minnesota.

Rival's Jerry Meyer:


He's an undersized power player, very physical with a football-type build. He's a very good rebounder and controls space. Here late in the game, there are a lot of schools digging through the woodwork trying to find big guys, so he has a lot of interest from different schools. He's going to wind up in a high-major school most likely.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_14413693?nclick_check=1
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=2667164
http://blogs.suntimes.com/preps/2008/09/basketball_notebook.html
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=53632&season=2009&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d536 32%26season%3d2009

DeBlueDevil
02-22-2010, 11:20 AM
I commented on this before but I just wanted to share my thoughts. I definitely would think that if we added depth to our bigs for next year that would be great. Especially with the fact that if Mason explodes next year like most expect then we may have a position to fill in the near future. But my man concern is his height. I'm not a fan of undersized PF's but I will say if he is a tough inside player like Dejuan Blair was at Pitt then I am all for this. Sometimes toughness does make up for lack of size. But very curious to see what our angle is here. Any thoughts?...

CDu
02-22-2010, 11:24 AM
I commented on this before but I just wanted to share my thoughts. I definitely would think that if we added depth to our bigs for next year that would be great. Especially with the fact that if Mason explodes next year like most expect then we may have a position to fill in the near future. But my man concern is his height. I'm not a fan of undersized PF's but I will say if he is a tough inside player like Dejuan Blair was at Pitt then I am all for this. Sometimes toughness does make up for lack of size. But very curious to see what our angle is here. Any thoughts?...

In the college game, you can get away with being an undersized PF. Plenty of 6'6"-6'7" guys have succeeded at the 4. However, it does take a special player to do it.

DeBlueDevil
02-22-2010, 11:28 AM
Also, the one espn link above was a little old and had him ranked at a 75...here is a more updated one which has his ranking jumping up to an 89

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=104688&season=2010&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d104 688%26season%3d2010

rotogod00
02-22-2010, 11:28 AM
In the college game, you can get away with being an undersized PF. Plenty of 6'6"-6'7" guys have succeeded at the 4. However, it does take a special player to do it.

yup, craig smith of bc fame is a perfect example

CDu
02-22-2010, 11:30 AM
yup, craig smith of bc fame is a perfect example

As are Trevor Booker and Michael Wright (Arizona).

Morris614
02-22-2010, 11:34 AM
Or Jon Brockman at Wash.

Kinda funny to see the jump he made in the ESPN rankings. Kinda makes me wonder if they saw who he was recruited by and then decided to rank him higher.

rotogod00
02-22-2010, 11:38 AM
Based on what I've read, it sounds like he's actually from Chicago, not Virginia. He was at Fenger High School in Chicago as part of the Class of 2009. This year he's playing at the Heat Basketball Academy in Virginia. So, I'm not sure if he already graduated, is taking a fifth year, or what. Used to be 6'6" 180. Has gained about 40 pounds since then. Rivals says he has offers from Marquette and South Florida. His complete list includes Duke, Marquette, Xavier, South Florida and Minnesota.

Rival's Jerry Meyer:



http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_14413693?nclick_check=1
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=2667164
http://blogs.suntimes.com/preps/2008/09/basketball_notebook.html
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=53632&season=2009&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d536 32%26season%3d2009

espn lists him as a "post graduate"

DeBlueDevil
02-22-2010, 11:38 AM
Well I stand corrected haha. If this kid has the same stuff of a Blair, Craig Smith, or Booker then I'm all for it. Just looking at the pictures of this kid you can see he's solid and doesn't look like the type of kid that you want to mess with in the paint. I like it!

jimsumner
02-22-2010, 11:38 AM
I believe Duke is recruiting Haynes with the expectation that he will transition into a 3. That seems to be his wish also.

Remember, Nate James was a 4 when he came to Duke and developed into a pretty good 2/3.

Since the Czyz transfer, Duke has been open to the possibilty of bringing in two wings. Felix, Zeigler and maybe Haynes have survived the winnowing process, Ross has not and Mabry is way on the back burner.

rotogod00
02-22-2010, 11:40 AM
I believe Duke is recruiting Haynes with the expectation that he will transition into a 3. That seems to be his wish also.

Remember, Nate James was a 4 when he came to Duke and developed into a pretty good 2/3.

Since the Czyz transfer, Duke has been open to the possibilty of bringing in two wings. Felix, Zeigler and maybe Haynes have survived the winnowing process, Ross has not and Mabry is way on the back burner.

problem is, apparently he can't shoot

Osiagledknarf
02-22-2010, 12:09 PM
I like this kid. He is a very big kid, with a lot of strength and seems like a guy who would fit well with our system. He would give us another big which we are really looking for next season with the losses of Thomas and Zoubek. We would have for guys at the four position with Miles, Kelly, Hairston and Haynes. Wouldn't be a bad rotation, and could get more playing time then Kelly did this season due to his toughness and defensive ability.

He would be a good pickup for us.

GODUKEGO
02-22-2010, 12:32 PM
There was a mention earlier of Michael Haynes being at the game last night.
Two guys sitting about 60 feet from me last night. They were not Crazies because they did not applaud when we scored nor when Tech scored. I recognized him but could not place him. Googled Michael Haynes since he was mentioned having been seen at the game. Came across this picture and it was him.

http://multivu.prnewswire.com/mnr/pcec/41363/

Maybe his son is the basketball player mentioned earlier.

Michael Haynes basketball player: http://rivals.yahoo.com/arkansasvarsity/basketball/recruiting/player-Michael-Haynes-59879

He was there last night:
http://bluedevilinsider.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/class-of-2010-prospect-michael-haynes-visits-duke/

SupaDave
02-22-2010, 12:43 PM
As are Trevor Booker and Michael Wright (Arizona).

Don't forget "Big Baby" who this kid sounds like based on what I have read...

Morris614
02-22-2010, 12:57 PM
Don't forget "Big Baby" who this kid sounds like based on what I have read...

Well....Davis is listed at 6-9, so im not sure the comparison fits, especially because 6-9 is plenty tall for a college big man.

I guess a question is how tall this guy really is? He could be 6-6 close to 6-7, or he could be barely 6-5.

Franzez
02-22-2010, 01:06 PM
Well....Davis is listed at 6-9, so im not sure the comparison fits, especially because 6-9 is plenty tall for a college big man.
Big Baby also weighed about 300 lbs and when you add in his ridiculously quick feet he was tough to stop.





I guess a question is how tall this guy really is? He could be 6-6 close to 6-7, or he could be barely 6-5.

Hes probably under 6'6 usually these HS guys' height is off by 1 or 2 inches with the expectation they'll grow by the time they're on campus.

If hes a 6'4/6'5 225 lb low post machine it sounds like a Paul Harris type of player.

Franzez
02-22-2010, 01:09 PM
Where is Coach K finding these guys?

Some of the names like Felix, Ndiaye, and Haynes werent even on the radar in terms of recruiting until Coach K and Nate James became interested.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-22-2010, 01:31 PM
Where is Coach K finding these guys?

Some of the names like Felix, Ndiaye, and Haynes werent even on the radar in terms of recruiting until Coach K and Nate James became interested.


High school is not the only place to find good talent. There is plenty of talent in the JUCO and prep school ranks and it only takes one coach to find out about them and give them a shot. Marquis Gilstrap at Iowa St, Malcom Armstead/Jeremy Jacob at Oregon, Morris twins at Kansas were all JUCO/Prep school players that are extremely talented players.

SupaDave
02-22-2010, 02:10 PM
Well....Davis is listed at 6-9, so im not sure the comparison fits, especially because 6-9 is plenty tall for a college big man.

I guess a question is how tall this guy really is? He could be 6-6 close to 6-7, or he could be barely 6-5.

Wow - he's 6'9? Must be that 300 pounds making him look shorter. All I can remember is that Tyrus Thomas seemed to be much taller than him.

SupaDave
02-22-2010, 02:11 PM
High school is not the only place to find good talent. There is plenty of talent in the JUCO and prep school ranks and it only takes one coach to find out about them and give them a shot. Marquis Gilstrap at Iowa St, Malcom Armstead/Jeremy Jacob at Oregon, Morris twins at Kansas were all JUCO/Prep school players that are extremely talented players.

Oh and Steve Francis is like the world's best JUCO player EVER...

watzone
02-22-2010, 02:14 PM
He plays like a bulldog according to someone close to the situation and or bigger than he is. He's a late bloomer, a role type of wing and Duke is looking a wing or ..

...

James is the lead recruiter on this one and it is in the infancy stages.

CDu
02-22-2010, 02:16 PM
Wow - he's 6'9? Must be that 300 pounds making him look shorter. All I can remember is that Tyrus Thomas seemed to be much taller than him.

Yeah, the body shape can create optical illusions. Davis measured at 6'7.75" without shoes and 6'9" with shoes. By comparison, Thomas measured 6'7.25" without shoes and 6'8.25" with shoes. It probably didn't help that Thomas has really long arms (9'0" standing reach and 7'3" wingspan) and great hops. That probably makes him look taller, too.

As for Haynes, I'm guessing that 6'6" for a high school PF really means about 6'5"ish.

MChambers
02-22-2010, 02:53 PM
All this emphasis on finding one or two wings makes me think that it is still very likely that Kyle will be in the NBA next year. (If that's what he wants, I'm fine with it, BTW.)

As far as Haynes not being able to shoot, Brian Davis and Robert Brickey couldn't shoot when they got to Duke. I think they went to 7 final fours between them.

buddy
02-22-2010, 03:06 PM
problem is, apparently he can't shoot

He'll fit right in!

airowe
02-22-2010, 03:23 PM
All this emphasis on finding one or two wings makes me think that it is still very likely that Kyle will be in the NBA next year. (If that's what he wants, I'm fine with it, BTW.)

As far as Haynes not being able to shoot, Brian Davis and Robert Brickey couldn't shoot when they got to Duke. I think they went to 7 final fours between them.

I don't think this has much of anything to do with Kyle other than the fact that he will be graduating after next year. This recruitment is more of a signal of a changing approach to Duke Recruiting and more symbolic of the "wide-net" approach we have seen budding this offseason and into this year.

The staff may be planning for the worst case scenario (or best, depending on how you look at it) of Kyle blowing up for the rest of the year, leading us deep into the Brackets of Madness and catipulting himself into the early levels of the 1st round, but even that is not a sign that Kyle will be leaving. It is just the staff being proactive and getting itself involved with as many athletic defense-oriented, versatile guys who will be able to run with the Lambo that Kyrie is driving next year (and hopefully for a year or two after that.)

Haynes may not come to Duke for his full career, but the fact that he visited and got to experience a tightly contested basketball contest in the confines of the best venue to witness a basketball game has nothing but positive ramifications on him, his high school teammates, and his AAU teammates.

MChambers
02-22-2010, 04:06 PM
I don't think this has much of anything to do with Kyle other than the fact that he will be graduating after next year. This recruitment is more of a signal of a changing approach to Duke Recruiting and more symbolic of the "wide-net" approach we have seen budding this offseason and into this year.

The staff may be planning for the worst case scenario (or best, depending on how you look at it) of Kyle blowing up for the rest of the year, leading us deep into the Brackets of Madness and catipulting himself into the early levels of the 1st round, but even that is not a sign that Kyle will be leaving. It is just the staff being proactive and getting itself involved with as many athletic defense-oriented, versatile guys who will be able to run with the Lambo that Kyrie is driving next year (and hopefully for a year or two after that.)

Haynes may not come to Duke for his full career, but the fact that he visited and got to experience a tightly contested basketball contest in the confines of the best venue to witness a basketball game has nothing but positive ramifications on him, his high school teammates, and his AAU teammates.

I'd love to see Kyle back next year, so I like your approach. I also definitely wish we had a couple more athletic wings.

Devilsfan
02-22-2010, 05:29 PM
Who was the other person in street clothes that walked in with Haynes and the team last night?

airowe
02-22-2010, 05:34 PM
Who was the other person in street clothes that walked in with Haynes and the team last night?

Marshall Plumlee was the only other recruit in attendance last night so if it wasn't him, it may have been a friend of Michael's.

GODUKEGO
02-22-2010, 08:21 PM
Marshall was not the only recruit there last night!!

http://bluedevilinsider.wordpress.com/

Osiagledknarf
02-22-2010, 08:26 PM
Marshall Plumlee was the only other recruit in attendance last night so if it wasn't him, it may have been a friend of Michael's.

Marshall was in attendance last night? I did not hear that. Hopefully he did have a good trip and Coach K showed him a good time. His brother's certainly didn't impress him :D

airowe
02-22-2010, 08:55 PM
Marshall Plumlee was the only other recruit in attendance last night so if it wasn't him, it may have been a friend of Michael's.


Marshall was not the only recruit there last night!!

http://bluedevilinsider.wordpress.com/

I think you missed that bolded word.

Newton_14
02-22-2010, 09:28 PM
It would be nice to pick up another big for next year. I have become absolutely spoiled with this year's deep rotation of 5 bigs without even counting Kyle. It is so different than what we have lived with in the past.

We lose 2 of the 5 in Zoubs and Lance, and as of now, we only bring in 1 with Hairston. Still fairly deep with 4 bigs but young. Would like to grab a 5th guy.

Next year's big rotation as of now:

PF/4 Spot- Mason/Kelly/Hairston (Singler could be an option providing 1. He stays, and 2. K goes back to smaller line up)

C/5 Spot- Miles/Mason (Miles will be the only true 5 on the roster, but Mason can play the 5 as well. I expect we will see Mason switching back and forth between the 4 and 5 depending on who is on the floor with him, and playing the 5 for sure when Miles is not in)

Two things need to happen for next year though. Mason/Miles both have to solve their fouling issues, and Kelly needs to bulk up and improve enough to be able to play a good amount of minutes. We will need all 3 of those guys to be able to stay on the floor next year as much as needed.

If we do not get this Haynes kid, it would be nice if the Juco guy that plays with Felix (Ndiaye?) works out for us and gets/accepts an offer.

rotogod00
02-23-2010, 07:34 AM
Marshall Plumlee was the only other recruit in attendance last night so if it wasn't him, it may have been a friend of Michael's.

Hope he wasn't put off by the lack of playing time his brothers got (and are getting)

BD80
02-23-2010, 08:01 AM
Hope he wasn't put off by the lack of playing time his brothers got (and are getting)

I had that thought as well, but what baby brother doesn't want the chance to outdo his older brothers?

I think a big part of his impression influenced by his brothers will depend on how the season ends. A nice run the the ACC tourney and deep into the NCAA tourney will really brighten the outlook, particularly if Mason starts to contribute.

It also seems like the Plumlee's parents are really grounded, somewhat like the Scheyers. They are not looking for a quick trip to the NBA draft, but rather the development of their sons. If they understand what Coach K is doing with Mason and Miles, Marshall is likely to understand as well.

I think a key factor is that we will have playing time available for Marshall WITH his brothers (although probably not all three at once)

CrazieDUMB
02-23-2010, 08:15 AM
It would be nice to pick up another big for next year. I have become absolutely spoiled with this year's deep rotation of 5 bigs without even counting Kyle. It is so different than what we have lived with in the past.

We lose 2 of the 5 in Zoubs and Lance, and as of now, we only bring in 1 with Hairston. Still fairly deep with 4 bigs but young. Would like to grab a 5th guy.

Next year's big rotation as of now:

PF/4 Spot- Mason/Kelly/Hairston (Singler could be an option providing 1. He stays, and 2. K goes back to smaller line up)

C/5 Spot- Miles/Mason (Miles will be the only true 5 on the roster, but Mason can play the 5 as well. I expect we will see Mason switching back and forth between the 4 and 5 depending on who is on the floor with him, and playing the 5 for sure when Miles is not in)



Yeah this raises some interesting questions. First of all, are Miles and Mason going to be able to step up and be the primary guys in the post? I have to say it really bothers me that I don't think we have any real anchors down low. I don't mind our lineup offensively (I think Kelly bring some interesting matchup problems on the outside, maybe run a 4 out-1 in set), I just have nightmares of getting dominated on the boards. The thing that's so wonderful about this season is that even when the shots aren't falling, we have the rebounding ability to stay in it and get second chance points.

Not only could Ndiaye help, but I think Felix will also be a strong rebounder if he's as athletic as people say he is. We'll have so much scoring (Smith, Curry, Irving, hopefully Singler) he could really blossom as a role player, especially if we focus on developing him that way. Though I hope I'm wrong, I don't think Kelly will ever be a down low banger; it's what we need, it's just definitely not his style.

A mean banger down low would really fill a hole on this team.

Osiagledknarf
02-23-2010, 09:20 AM
Yeah this raises some interesting questions. First of all, are Miles and Mason going to be able to step up and be the primary guys in the post? I have to say it really bothers me that I don't think we have any real anchors down low. I don't mind our lineup offensively (I think Kelly bring some interesting matchup problems on the outside, maybe run a 4 out-1 in set), I just have nightmares of getting dominated on the boards. The thing that's so wonderful about this season is that even when the shots aren't falling, we have the rebounding ability to stay in it and get second chance points.

Not only could Ndiaye help, but I think Felix will also be a strong rebounder if he's as athletic as people say he is. We'll have so much scoring (Smith, Curry, Irving, hopefully Singler) he could really blossom as a role player, especially if we focus on developing him that way. Though I hope I'm wrong, I don't think Kelly will ever be a down low banger; it's what we need, it's just definitely not his style.

A mean banger down low would really fill a hole on this team.

Exactly which is why I would really like to get Haynes. He is a banger who can get rebounds in traffic and keep other big guys further away from the basket. As of right now, we don't have really enough depth at either the 4 or the 5 position. Mason and Miles are athletic enough to be able to rebound and play defense in the post, but as that hard nose guy like Zoubek down there we do need.

I like Aziz but we all have to be very cautious with him. He is coming off a major knee injury and may not have the same explosiveness then he did prior to that injury. That be said though, I would take the risk.

We have 4 to 6 scorers on the roster for next season as of right now.

Kyrie
Smith
Singler
Mason
Dawkins
Curry

With guys like Hairston, Felix, Kelly and Thronton that could be good contributors off the bench.

Felix is a kid I am very excited about and really like what he can bring to this team if he does sign here. He would be used as a kid who would be brought in for defensive purposes and be a high energy guy off the bench.

A lineup of this I would be very pleased with:

PG: Irving/ Smith/Thronton
SG: Smith/Curry/Dawkins
SF: Singler/Felix/Dawkins
PF: Miles/Kelly/Hairston/Haynes
C: Mason/Aziz

The only thing I worry about IF Felix comes here is; where is the playing time for Dawkins? He will be 3rd on the depth chart at both the SG and SF positions.

We need a banger and that's what Haynes offers; Hence why Coach K is going after him.

DukieInBrasil
02-23-2010, 10:01 AM
"A mean banger down low would really fill a hole on this team."

I don't know if this has been an issue before, but maybe we should be careful with phrases that have a strong double entendre. Maybe it's funny, but it sounds vaguely XXX.

wilko
02-23-2010, 10:12 AM
"A mean banger down low would really fill a hole on this team."

I don't know if this has been an issue before, but maybe we should be careful with phrases that have a strong double entendre. Maybe it's funny, but it sounds vaguely XXX.

Oddly, I didnt notice until you mentioned it

mph
02-23-2010, 10:19 AM
"A mean banger down low would really fill a hole on this team."

I don't know if this has been an issue before, but maybe we should be careful with phrases that have a strong double entendre. Maybe it's funny, but it sounds vaguely XXX.

Alternatively, we could agree to read posts like we've graduated from junior high.

Osiagledknarf
02-23-2010, 10:32 AM
Oddly, I didnt notice until you mentioned it

Sorry about that...

CrazieDUMB
02-23-2010, 10:33 AM
Unintentional on my end, tried to edit but can't

Huh?
02-23-2010, 10:51 AM
Exactly which is why I would really like to get Haynes. He is a banger who can get rebounds in traffic and keep other big guys further away from the basket. As of right now, we don't have really enough depth at either the 4 or the 5 position. Mason and Miles are athletic enough to be able to rebound and play defense in the post, but as that hard nose guy like Zoubek down there we do need.

I like Aziz but we all have to be very cautious with him. He is coming off a major knee injury and may not have the same explosiveness then he did prior to that injury. That be said though, I would take the risk.

We have 4 to 6 scorers on the roster for next season as of right now.

Kyrie
Smith
Singler
Mason
Dawkins
Curry

With guys like Hairston, Felix, Kelly and Thronton that could be good contributors off the bench.

Felix is a kid I am very excited about and really like what he can bring to this team if he does sign here. He would be used as a kid who would be brought in for defensive purposes and be a high energy guy off the bench.

A lineup of this I would be very pleased with:

PG: Irving/ Smith/Thronton
SG: Smith/Curry/Dawkins
SF: Singler/Felix/Dawkins
PF: Miles/Kelly/Hairston/Haynes
C: Mason/Aziz

The only thing I worry about IF Felix comes here is; where is the playing time for Dawkins? He will be 3rd on the depth chart at both the SG and SF positions.

We need a banger and that's what Haynes offers; Hence why Coach K is going after him.

I don't think Dawkins will be third on the depth chart, I find it hard to think Curry will play ahead of him. Dawkins has size and athleticism over Curry and their shot is probably similar.

jimsumner
02-23-2010, 10:57 AM
" I find it hard to think Curry will play ahead of him. Dawkins has size and athleticism over Curry and their shot is probably similar."

Dawkins is bigger than Curry and that will give him some minutes at the 3.

But Curry may well surprise you. Remember, he beat out Kenny Boynton, among others, for a spot on the United States U-19 team last summer. Reports from Duke practices suggest that was not a fluke. Curry is good. Real good. It's no dismissal of Dawkins' ability or future to recognize that.

Kfanarmy
02-23-2010, 11:31 AM
...But Curry may well surprise you. Remember, he beat out Kenny Boynton, among others, for a spot on the United States U-19 team last summer. Reports from Duke practices suggest that was not a fluke. Curry is good. Real good. It's no dismissal of Dawkins' ability or future to recognize that. I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by Seth Curry next year. He will have played against his fellow Duke teammates behind the scenes for a year, and he didn't show up without experience. A lot of folks were sort of pooh poohing his brother Stephen's abilities, but he is doing well in the NBA, getting 15.2 ppg, and 5.1 APG in 35 minutes. That ain't bad, and I hope Seth demonstrates the same skills next year at Duke.

CrazieDUMB
02-23-2010, 11:55 AM
I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by Seth Curry next year. He will have played against his fellow Duke teammates behind the scenes for a year, and he didn't show up without experience. A lot of folks were sort of pooh poohing his brother Stephen's abilities, but he is doing well in the NBA, getting 15.2 ppg, and 5.1 APG in 35 minutes. That ain't bad, and I hope Seth demonstrates the same skills next year at Duke.

Surprised by Seth Curry?? Do people still not know that he was the highest scoring D-I frosh? He has two years experience (one only in practice, however), and while I like Dawkins, has he ever really affected a game this year, aside from Wisconsin?

Watch this video and try not to get excited
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3CXon8Ve0

sagegrouse
02-23-2010, 11:58 AM
Were we talking about Michael Haynes on this thread?

sagegrouse

Devilsfan
02-23-2010, 11:58 AM
Liberty's competition is just slightly under that of the ACC but we can hope he does the same against his upgraded defenses next year.

Acymetric
02-23-2010, 11:59 AM
" I find it hard to think Curry will play ahead of him. Dawkins has size and athleticism over Curry and their shot is probably similar."

Dawkins is bigger than Curry and that will give him some minutes at the 3.

But Curry may well surprise you. Remember, he beat out Kenny Boynton, among others, for a spot on the United States U-19 team last summer. Reports from Duke practices suggest that was not a fluke. Curry is good. Real good. It's no dismissal of Dawkins' ability or future to recognize that.

Its also worth noting that next year will be Curry's 3rd year in college, while it will be Dre's 2nd. Curry spent a year being THE GUY on a team, followed by a year where he can practice and work out hard without having to worry about it affecting his gameday performance.

Even with the year off, Curry will be older and at least in some ways (I would argue most ways) more experienced. I think we'll have 4-5 starting caliber players battling for time and pushing each other at the 1-3 spots. Potentially more if you throw in Kelly at the three (not exactly sure what our plans for him are).

dcar1985
02-23-2010, 12:46 PM
I dont understand the comparison between dawkins and curry, seth is 6'1 about 180 he has skill to play the 1 but definitely more of a scorer which will see him getting most of his minutes at the 2....dre is much bigger at 6'4 and will see most of his minutes at the 3, the thing dre needs to do over the summer is work exclusively on his handle thats when he'll become a star, the shot is there, yea hes been in a slump but its there....he needs a handle thats half the reason he doesnt see much clock now especially during situations where duke is being pressed on D...he reminds me alot of henderson but with potential to be a much better ballhandler then henderson was or is now and hes already a better shooter. but yea back to my point i dont think they're going to be competing for minutes and if anything i see curry backing up kyrie at the point and thorton being the odd man out...

jimsumner
02-23-2010, 12:56 PM
Is Thornton/Thorton going to become the next Shelden/Sheldon?

It just keeps showing up.

As Barney would say, we need to nip it in the bud. In the bud. :)

NashvilleDevil
02-23-2010, 12:56 PM
Surprised by Seth Curry?? Do people still not know that he was the highest scoring D-I frosh? He has two years experience (one only in practice, however), and while I like Dawkins, has he ever really affected a game this year, aside from Wisconsin?

Watch this video and try not to get excited
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3CXon8Ve0

I know this is thread on Michael Haynes but Seth's shot is very similar to his Dad's which is great.

roywhite
02-23-2010, 01:06 PM
Its also worth noting that next year will be Curry's 3rd year in college, while it will be Dre's 2nd. Curry spent a year being THE GUY on a team, followed by a year where he can practice and work out hard without having to worry about it affecting his gameday performance.

Even with the year off, Curry will be older and at least in some ways (I would argue most ways) more experienced. I think we'll have 4-5 starting caliber players battling for time and pushing each other at the 1-3 spots. Potentially more if you throw in Kelly at the three (not exactly sure what our plans for him are).

Off the original topic I'm afraid, but to comment further on Curry:

He averaged 20 pts a game as a freshman at Liberty
Against lesser competition? well, perhaps, but he had games of:
24 points at Clemson
26 points at UVa

Being able to practice with the team for a full year is also a significant advantage when we look at Seth's readiness to contribute right away.

dcar1985
02-23-2010, 01:17 PM
Off the original topic I'm afraid, but to comment further on Curry:

He averaged 20 pts a game as a freshman at Liberty
Against lesser competition? well, perhaps, but he had games of:
24 points at Clemson
26 points at UVa

Being able to practice with the team for a full year is also a significant advantage when we look at Seth's readiness to contribute right away.
Good point....I don't think anyone should be questioning his game, the man can play and hes definitely going to contribute...we shouldn't be expecting him to put up numbers like he did at liberty though, he'll be playing on a more balanced team with more scoring options so of course his ppg will drop but he's going to be a big part of what goes on next year for sure.

Huh?
02-23-2010, 02:28 PM
I don't think anyone was questioning Curry's game, IMO I feel Dawkins will be the better PLAYER, Curry may be a better scorer, but overall I think Dawkins size, strength (eventually), and athleticism will make him one of the top players not only on our team, but also the ACC. With some hard work over the summer I think we see Dre break out a bit. I was really complimenting Dre more than anything, not at all discrediting Curry's game.

Acymetric
02-23-2010, 02:35 PM
I don't think anyone was questioning Curry's game, IMO I feel Dawkins will be the better PLAYER, Curry may be a better scorer, but overall I think Dawkins size, strength (eventually), and athleticism will make him one of the top players not only on our team, but also the ACC. With some hard work over the summer I think we see Dre break out a bit. I was really complimenting Dre more than anything, not at all discrediting Curry's game.

Dawkins' size makes him able to play the 3, but it doesn't make him a better 2 (and unlike Curry he can't play the 1). But its not like Curry is just going to sit around all summer. While Dawkins works on ballhandling, Curry can work on his (already good) shooting and his (already good) ballhandling.

My prediction is that either they'll both play about the same number of minutes or Curry will get more. Most likely the former, especially if Kyle returns leaving both guys playing behind Kyrie, Nolan, and Kyle.

dcar1985
02-23-2010, 03:29 PM
I don't think anyone was questioning Curry's game, IMO I feel Dawkins will be the better PLAYER, Curry may be a better scorer, but overall I think Dawkins size, strength (eventually), and athleticism will make him one of the top players not only on our team, but also the ACC. With some hard work over the summer I think we see Dre break out a bit. I was really complimenting Dre more than anything, not at all discrediting Curry's game.
Yea I get what your saying and i totally agree...I think dawkins will be a star as long as he puts in the work, I was talking about them competing for minutes position wise

El_Diablo
02-23-2010, 04:03 PM
Michael Haynes!

ricks68
02-23-2010, 07:42 PM
After the game I visited a little with Nate on the floor and asked him who the guy was that was standing behind him, and he introduced me to Michael. He said that he was recruiting him. I asked Michael how he liked being at Duke for the game and he said that it was "awesome!" He also said that he liked Duke alot! (Exclamation points have been inserted in an effort to transmit some of his obvious enthusiasm exhibited when answering my questions.)

I then asked Nate who the other guy with Michael was. Nate responded with a name that I forgot because Nate said that he was a friend of Michael's just along for the ride.

And yes, it was very, very easy to spot Marshall. He looks even taller and lankier than his brothers.

Hope that answers some questions.

ricks

DukieInBrasil
02-23-2010, 08:22 PM
Duke is right to go after Haynes, after all, we could be in a precarious situation come next season. Consider:
We only have 9 scholarship players now, meaning we could have as many as 3 or 4 MORE on the roster that we don't have.
We are guaranteed to lose 3 players next year to graduation. We have 4 players signed to letters of intent or already on campus;+1. This leaves with 2 or 3 additional players just to fill the roster.
We could quite reasonably expect to see Kyle leave via the draft;-1.
We could also maybe lose Nolan to the draft if he has a stellar tournament, it's not anywhere close to certain to happen, but some guys have turned brilliant tournaments into higher draft status.
So there is a certainty we'll lose 3 players, a somewhat high probability that Kyle goes, meaning we lose 4, and a somewhat unlikely probability that we'll lose Nolan as well, meaning we lose 5.
If that night mare scenario happens we could have as many as 8 roster spots to fill with only 4 guys on board already. That means that K could be looking for anywhere up to 4 guys to sign this spring.
We've heard quite a bit about Felix Carrick now as well as Ndiaye. Michael Haynes could be a third. As far as i am aware, we are talking to several other players with varying levels of interest from both parties. With as many potential roster spots to fill as we could have, it absolutely necessary that K and the staff be as proactive as possible and talk to/sign as many kids as possible.

jimsumner
02-23-2010, 09:53 PM
Duke is not going to sign four players this spring. One definitely, two maybe.

You just can't recruit under a worst-possible case scenario. Because, if the worst-case scenario doesn't come true, then you've clogged your team with guys that you don't need.

Suppose Duke signs four more players and Singler and Smith return. Then you've got 14 players on scholarship and the NCAA limit is 13.

Seriously, check your math.

But let's say Duke recruits to 13 and Singler and Smith return. And you might not know for sure until after the signing date. They are the only seniors in
'11, so maybe only two scholarships free up. But you want Rivers, Miller, Plumlee3, and Gbinjie from the class of 2011. You can't do that unless you have significant attrition. Maybe Plumlee2 goes NBA after his sophomore season, maybe Irving goes NBA after his freshman season, maybe someone bails.

But you can't rely on that. You sure don't know that in the summer of 2010, when most of these guys will pull the trigger. If you guess wrong one way, you don't have enough players. But if you guess wrong the other way, you don't have the flexibility to do what you need to do.

Given K's history over 30 years, it should be apparent that he is not going to recruit to 13 unless he's absolutely certain he's not going to need those scholarships down the line and maybe not even then.

So, we're back where we started. One, maybe two more players this spring.

papa whiskey
02-23-2010, 10:38 PM
Please tell me that we are not actively recruiting a 2 star, 6-6 power foward.

El_Diablo
02-23-2010, 10:41 PM
Please tell me that we are not actively recruiting a 2 star, 6-6 power foward.

we are not recruiting a 2 star, 6-6 power foward.

DukieInBrasil
02-24-2010, 08:59 AM
Duke is not going to sign four players this spring. One definitely, two maybe.

You just can't recruit under a worst-possible case scenario. Because, if the worst-case scenario doesn't come true, then you've clogged your team with guys that you don't need.

Suppose Duke signs four more players and Singler and Smith return. Then you've got 14 players on scholarship and the NCAA limit is 13.

Seriously, check your math.

But let's say Duke recruits to 13 and Singler and Smith return. And you might not know for sure until after the signing date. They are the only seniors in
'11, so maybe only two scholarships free up. But you want Rivers, Miller, Plumlee3, and Gbinjie from the class of 2011. You can't do that unless you have significant attrition. Maybe Plumlee2 goes NBA after his sophomore season, maybe Irving goes NBA after his freshman season, maybe someone bails.

But you can't rely on that. You sure don't know that in the summer of 2010, when most of these guys will pull the trigger. If you guess wrong one way, you don't have enough players. But if you guess wrong the other way, you don't have the flexibility to do what you need to do.

Given K's history over 30 years, it should be apparent that he is not going to recruit to 13 unless he's absolutely certain he's not going to need those scholarships down the line and maybe not even then.

So, we're back where we started. One, maybe two more players this spring.

Right, recruiting players does not equal signing them. Also, you can still sign players after roster players (Kyle and/or Nolan) declare for the draft or more precisely, sign with agents making them ineligible.
As for the math; we have 6 players who could return and 4 committed or on campus, meaning that without signing any additional players we would have 10. This means we could still sign 3 and not go over the limit. If both Kyle and Nolan leave via the draft we could sign up 5. Do we need to sign 5? probably not, but we COULD. That was my point, what we could do, not what we should do nor what K will do.
Once upon a time K signed a unheralded guard by the name of Andre Buckner as an insurance guard b/c we were in an emergency situation, and he stayed for 4 years and K never once complained about doing that. If both Kyle and Nolan go for the draft, I don't think we would be in a nightmare scenario, especially if we sign 2 of our top recruiting targets anyway. But there would still be plenty of good reasons to sign additional players, as long as they are capable players.
Thanks for the snide comment though, and yes i did check my math.

jimsumner
02-24-2010, 09:57 AM
Hey, you're the one who suggested that Duke could sign as many as four players this spring. Go back and read your own post. I think that's nonsense and explained why.

1.Singler
2.Smith
3.Miles Plumlee
4.Mason Plumlee
5.Dawkins
6.Kelly
7.Curry
8.Irving
9.Hairston
10.Thornton
11.Hypothetical prospect #1
12.Hypothetical prospect #2
13.Hypothetical prospect #3
14.Hypothetical prospect #4

So, your numbers just don't add up. Signing four might make sense only if Singler and/or Smith tell K in no uncertain terms that they aren't coming back next season. That conversation has not happened and I do not expect it to happen. If either/or does decide to go NBA next season, that decision will almost certainly come after anyone of consequence in the class of 2010 is off the board.

And, as I explained in the prior thread, bringing in 8 players would hamstring recruiting in the class of 2011.

Buckner? He was brought in as a practice player after Duke lost four players unexpectedly to NBA/transfer. Buckner gave Duke ten scholarship players for 2000. If Duke unexpectedly loses four players this spring then yes, we can have this conversation. But it's a bit much to assume that the spring of 1999 should be a template for Duke recruiting.

JohnGalt
02-24-2010, 10:11 AM
It seems to me Haynes will be the latest in a long line of Duke players we all wished were 2 or 3 inches taller...

As for Curry...would you all say he's practicing as well as Shav practiced?...I'll wait for the games to see how well he does.

DukieInBrasil
02-24-2010, 11:02 AM
Thank you jimsumner for elucidating exactly the premise of the post that you were originally critiquing. IF, IF, IF, IF, if both Kyle and Nolan go for the NBA, which I explicitly said was not a sure thing, then Duke COULD consider signing several extra players. I fail to understand how you did not understand this considering that in the original post I said
"So there is a certainty we'll lose 3 players, a somewhat high probability that Kyle goes, meaning we lose 4, and a somewhat unlikely probability that we'll lose Nolan as well, meaning we lose 5.
If that night mare scenario happens we could have as many as 8 roster spots to fill with only 4 guys on board already. That means that K could be looking for anywhere up to 4 guys to sign this spring." My only error was underestimating how many players we COULD sign IF both KS and NS leave, which, once again, is "a somewhat unlikely probability that...we lose 5" players.
This would be the list IF both KS and NS go for the show (again, to be clear, this is not a given, foregone conclusion or any other term that might have a similar understanding):

3.Miles Plumlee
4.Mason Plumlee
5.Dawkins
6.Kelly
7.Curry
8.Irving
9.Hairston
10.Thornton

8 players if KS and NS leave. NCAA rules allow for 13. 13-8 = 5. So Duke COULD sign up 5 more players if KS and NS leave. Let me quote myself:
"Do we need to sign 5? probably not, but we COULD. That was my point, what we could do, not what we should do nor what K will do. "

If BOTH Kyle and Nolan go pro, I think that would qualify as an "unexpected" situation, as neither you nor I expect that to happen. My entire post was premised around the unexpected situation happening and what K's options would be should the unexpected happen. Once again, I don't think we need to sign 5 players just to have the 13 that the NCAA allows, and I agree with you that signing all the players possible to fill our roster would not be to the team's best interest. What I was doing was trying to argue that K's recruiting strategy here is a good idea, try to cover all your bases b/c you never know what is going to happen.

jimsumner
02-24-2010, 11:26 AM
You seem to be operating under the assumption that using all available scholarships is a priority for Mike Krzyzewski. For the record, the last time K used all available scholarships was . . . never.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Singler and Smith both go pro and Duke only signs a paltry two more players this spring. That would give Duke ten recruited players for next season. Which would be the exact same number of recruited players Duke began this season with. Why didn't K frantically sign marginal players last season when Henderson went NBA?

K likes rosters with 10 or 11 recruited players. 13? Not so much. This is why even your doomsday scenario is not going to result in Duke signing four more players this spring.

Acymetric
02-24-2010, 11:42 AM
It seems to me Haynes will be the latest in a long line of Duke players we all wished were 2 or 3 inches taller...

As for Curry...would you all say he's practicing as well as Shav practiced?...I'll wait for the games to see how well he does.

Fortunately, we've already SEEN games. I'm sure there are highlights and game tape from his last season on youtube. Look it up.

MarkD83
02-24-2010, 12:35 PM
the 20 point game he had at Clemson last year.


LIBERTY FLAMES
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Seth Curry, G 38 9-16 6-9 0-0 0 4 1 0 1 5 3 24

DukieInBrasil
02-24-2010, 12:41 PM
You seem to be operating under the assumption that using all available scholarships is a priority for Mike Krzyzewski. For the record, the last time K used all available scholarships was . . . never.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Singler and Smith both go pro and Duke only signs a paltry two more players this spring. That would give Duke ten recruited players for next season. Which would be the exact same number of recruited players Duke began this season with. Why didn't K frantically sign marginal players last season when Henderson went NBA?

K likes rosters with 10 or 11 recruited players. 13? Not so much. This is why even your doomsday scenario is not going to result in Duke signing four more players this spring.

Once again you failed to understand what i am getting at, that I think K's recruiting philosophy here is good. I was not advocating that K SHOULD sign 5 players, in fact, I said:

"Once again, I don't think we need to sign 5 players just to have the 13 that the NCAA allows, and I agree with you that signing all the players possible to fill our roster would not be to the team's best interest. What I was doing was trying to argue that K's recruiting strategy here is a good idea, try to cover all your bases b/c you never know what is going to happen."

So, in that statement, I explicitly agree with you, yet you continue to assume that I want K to "frantically" fill the roster just to have 13? Ok, if you want to understand the complete opposite of what I said, that's fine.

Back to the issue of the thread, even if Haynes isn't highly regarded that doesn't mean he's not worth pursuing, if he's interested in Duke. Several un-heralded big guys have gone on to have excellent careers in the ACC, many of whom have already been enumerated in this thread. Usually it takes the development of a particular skill for an un-heralded guy to break through, great offensive rebounding, deft passing etc. Unfortunately, it appears that Haynes is not much of a shooter, but that is a skill that some guys are able to pick up later, even if not a gifted natural shooter. It's possible that he'll grow some more before next season starts, but at 6'6 it's hard to see how he'll be overly effective as a post player. Perhaps Nate and K have seen something in him that has been overlooked by others....

Acymetric
02-24-2010, 12:48 PM
Once again you failed to understand what i am getting at, that I think K's recruiting philosophy here is good. I was not advocating that K SHOULD sign 5 players, in fact, I said:

"Once again, I don't think we need to sign 5 players just to have the 13 that the NCAA allows, and I agree with you that signing all the players possible to fill our roster would not be to the team's best interest. What I was doing was trying to argue that K's recruiting strategy here is a good idea, try to cover all your bases b/c you never know what is going to happen."

So, in that statement, I explicitly agree with you, yet you continue to assume that I want K to "frantically" fill the roster just to have 13? Ok, if you want to understand the complete opposite of what I said, that's fine.

Back to the issue of the thread, even if Haynes isn't highly regarded that doesn't mean he's not worth pursuing, if he's interested in Duke. Several un-heralded big guys have gone on to have excellent careers in the ACC, many of whom have already been enumerated in this thread. Usually it takes the development of a particular skill for an un-heralded guy to break through, great offensive rebounding, deft passing etc. Unfortunately, it appears that Haynes is not much of a shooter, but that is a skill that some guys are able to pick up later, even if not a gifted natural shooter. It's possible that he'll grow some more before next season starts, but at 6'6 it's hard to see how he'll be overly effective as a post player. Perhaps Nate and K have seen something in him that has been overlooked by others....

The problem with your theory is that anyone that we're really going to want will be committed already by the time Singler and Smith make any decision about their future, including our current targets. Its not like they're going to brush off other schools and say "Well, I'm waiting for Duke to find out if they need/want me or not." So if we were to "cover our bases" it would have to be with a last minute recruitment of a lower tier recruit, not with the guys we're going after now. Thats the flaw in your argument.

BD80
02-24-2010, 02:06 PM
You seem to be operating under the assumption that using all available scholarships is a priority for Mike Krzyzewski. For the record, the last time K used all available scholarships was . . . never.
...

Ah, ah ah.

Never say never.

I believe he has used up his quota once the season begins, rewarding walk-ons with extra scholarships he may have.

Of course you are absolutely correct within the context of recruiting that Coach K has never used his allotment of 13 on recruited players.

It may be an instance where Coach K has or will make several offers for one scholarship for a wing player, on a first to accept basis. Or the additional players are be recruited on the off-chance that Kyle leaves, with the understanding that no offer will be made unless Kyle leaves the program early.

One thing I am confident of, Coach K has told the recruits exactly where they stand with respect to offers and with respect to their potential role on the roster.

El_Diablo
02-24-2010, 02:21 PM
the 20 point game he had at Clemson last year.


LIBERTY FLAMES
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Seth Curry, G 38 9-16 6-9 0-0 0 4 1 0 1 5 3 24

Michael Haynes put up 20+ points against Clemson last year? AWESOME!

Welcome2DaSlopes
03-23-2010, 03:51 PM
He's already in the ncaa?

Dukeknights
03-23-2010, 04:03 PM
He's already in the ncaa?

no.

I don't think we should offer Haynes.

CDu
03-23-2010, 04:08 PM
He's already in the ncaa?

Curry is, yes.

DukieInBrasil
04-16-2010, 10:24 AM
Is there any movement on the Haynes recruiting situation considering Singler's draft prospects? Should Kyle go to the NBA, we'll have 10 recruited scholarship players, one more than this year's championship squad. Though we were highly successful, winning the championship ya know, this year, my thought is that it would be good to have another reasonable player on the roster.
We were very lucky to not have suffered any serious injuries to the players in '09-10, but that may not be the case next year.
If Kyle decides to stay I think the Haynes recruiting scene will fade away.

_Gary
04-16-2010, 10:28 AM
The only thing I know about Michael Haynes is that he was one heck of a cornerback for the New England Patriots in the 70's and early 80's. Loved that guy! :D

airowe
04-16-2010, 10:40 AM
Is there any movement on the Haynes recruiting situation considering Singler's draft prospects? Should Kyle go to the NBA, we'll have 10 recruited scholarship players, one more than this year's championship squad. Though we were highly successful, winning the championship ya know, this year, my thought is that it would be good to have another reasonable player on the roster.
We were very lucky to not have suffered any serious injuries to the players in '09-10, but that may not be the case next year.
If Kyle decides to stay I think the Haynes recruiting scene will fade away.

Michael Haynes will not be playing basketball at Duke. That scholarship is being reserved for use in '11.

roywhite
04-16-2010, 10:52 AM
Michael Haynes will not be playing basketball at Duke. That scholarship is being reserved for use in '11.

Thanks, airowe.

Does that mean we're done for 2010 so far as you have heard?

airowe
04-16-2010, 11:28 AM
Thanks, airowe.

Does that mean we're done for 2010 so far as you have heard?

I don't see us getting in on anyone else this late in the game.

RelativeWays
04-16-2010, 03:10 PM
We don't need anyone else this year. If Kyle goes, Duke can play small at the 3 with either Dawk or Seth, or large with Felix and Ryan. If Kyle stays, we definitely do not need anyone.

Bluedog
04-23-2010, 12:37 PM
Haynes to UTEP

http://rivals.yahoo.com/utep/basketball/recruiting/commitments/2010
http://www.ktsm.com/sports/utep-basketball-adds-another-committment
http://www.minerrush.com/2010/4/20/1433188/chicagohoops-com-floyd-signs


Several online recruiting based web pages have reported that Michael Haynes, a 6-6, 225-pound power forward and former Duke commit, has committed to the Miners.

What?! hahaha. I think they meant former Duke recruit.

rotogod00
04-23-2010, 01:00 PM
Haynes to UTEP

http://rivals.yahoo.com/utep/basketball/recruiting/commitments/2010
http://www.ktsm.com/sports/utep-basketball-adds-another-committment
http://www.minerrush.com/2010/4/20/1433188/chicagohoops-com-floyd-signs



What?! hahaha. I think they meant former Duke recruit.

I tend to agree, but if was "only" a recruit, why even mention it?

RainingThrees
04-23-2010, 01:08 PM
I tend to agree, but if was "only" a recruit, why even mention it?

Any news that has Duke in it will draw more hits. More bullets for the haters to use.