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House G
02-20-2010, 05:47 PM
http://www.flagrantfouls.com/2010/02/nba-draft-stocks-atlantic-coast-conference/

Interesting take on NBA draft stock of Kyle Singler et al.

hotbutteredseoul
02-20-2010, 10:28 PM
This is a pretty weak list. I'd be much more interested to see what NBA people think of slightly more under the radar names. I'd like to hear if anyone knows anything about the prospects of Vasquez, Landesberg, Lawal, Favors, Ish Smith, Tracy Smith, Singleton/Alabi, or Trevor Booker.

I have to admit that I've got a bit of a soft spot for Trevor's game. I know he doesn't have the height, but given the continuing success of shortish NBA bruisers like Millsap, Chuck Hayes, Craig Smith and now the awesome rookie year of Dejuan Blair, you would think some team will take a chance on a proven rebounder and scorer.

FireOgilvie
02-20-2010, 11:02 PM
As far as ACC draft stocks:

Vasquez's stock is probably unchanged from last year. He'll go 2nd round.

I'm not a fan of Alabi at all.

Oh, and I know this is off-topic somewhat, but I expect the NBA Draft to go:

1. Wall
2. Cousins

Morris614
02-20-2010, 11:20 PM
As far as ACC draft stocks:

Vasquez's stock is probably unchanged from last year. He'll go 2nd round.

I'm not a fan of Alabi at all.

Oh, and I know this is off-topic somewhat, but I expect the NBA Draft to go:

1. Wall
2. Cousins

Yeah...well Wall has been at the number one slot the entire year

I think Cousins attitude could hurt him, especially with the quality of big men in the draft (Aldrich, Patterson, Monroe)

striker219
02-20-2010, 11:43 PM
As far as ACC draft stocks:

Vasquez's stock is probably unchanged from last year. He'll go 2nd round.

I'm not a fan of Alabi at all.

Oh, and I know this is off-topic somewhat, but I expect the NBA Draft to go:

1. Wall
2. Cousins

3. Cousins' psychiatrist, to be traded to team #2 in a deal to be finalized later.

Dude is crazy.

ice-9
02-21-2010, 12:01 AM
Why is he crazy? I've often read references to a poor, immature attitude, but never any examples of how he is that way.

Kdogg
02-21-2010, 10:01 AM
Why is he crazy? I've often read references to a poor, immature attitude, but never any examples of how he is that way.

The kid's talented but has a short fuse. I guy like Chas McFarland from Wake could really get to him in no time. Also there is the alleged punch at the USC fan.

DukeSean
02-21-2010, 06:23 PM
Why is he crazy? I've often read references to a poor, immature attitude, but never any examples of how he is that way.

then you haven't watched him play.

rotogod00
02-23-2010, 03:23 PM
Chad Ford's Top 100 ACC draft prospects (recently updated):
4. Derrick Favors
6. Ed Davis
7. Al-Farouq Aminu
13. Solomon Alabi
27. John Henson
29. Trevor Booker
31. Mason Plumlee
26. Gani Lawal
49. Kyle Singler
54. Iman Shumpert
59. Sylven Landesberg
60. Jon Scheyer
61. Chris Singleton
72. Xavier Gibson
80. Malcolm Delaney
89. Greivis Vasquez

SilkyJ
02-23-2010, 03:41 PM
I think Cousins attitude could hurt him, especially with the quality of big men in the draft (Aldrich, Patterson, Monroe)

This year is considered to be a down year for big men, FWIW.


Chad Ford's Top 100 ACC draft prospects (recently updated):
4. Derrick Favors
6. Ed Davis
7. Al-Farouq Aminu
13. Solomon Alabi
27. John Henson
29. Trevor Booker
31. Mason Plumlee
26. Gani Lawal
49. Kyle Singler
54. Iman Shumpert
59. Sylven Landesberg
60. Jon Scheyer
61. Chris Singleton
72. Xavier Gibson
80. Malcolm Delaney
89. Greivis Vasquez

No mention of NdotSmitty? Really? An athletic combo guard averaging 18ppg, shooting 42% from 3 in the ACC doesn't crack the top 100?

I also find it hard to believe that Delaney is that far down the list, but what do I know...

jv001
02-23-2010, 03:46 PM
This year is considered to be a down year for big men, FWIW.



No mention of NdotSmitty? Really? An athletic combo guard averaging 18ppg, shooting 42% from 3 in the ACC doesn't crack the top 100?

I also find it hard to believe that Delaney is that far down the list, but what do I know...

Mason is 31 and Kyle is 49. I know Forde is thinking potential, but I just don't see Mason being that far ahead of Kyle. Now or in the future. Hope Mason proves me wrong. Go Duke!

Kedsy
02-23-2010, 03:47 PM
No mention of NdotSmitty? Really? An athletic combo guard averaging 18ppg, shooting 42% from 3 in the ACC doesn't crack the top 100?

I also find it hard to believe that Delaney is that far down the list, but what do I know...

NBA draft position seems to be about size for the position as well as athleticism, and you have to have both. Nolan and Delaney are both very small for an NBA 2

Kedsy
02-23-2010, 03:49 PM
Mason is 31 and Kyle is 49. I know Forde is thinking potential, but I just don't see Mason being that far ahead of Kyle. Now or in the future. Hope Mason proves me wrong. Go Duke!

Kyle is a tweener, sizewise, not quite quick enough to guard NBA 3s and not quite big enough to guard NBA 4s. Mason brings above-average athleticism for an NBA 4, and is thus a better pro prospect.

UrinalCake
02-23-2010, 03:56 PM
I would put Vasquez much higher. He's come on really strong over the past couple weeks and is keeping his emotions in check. I could see him drafted before Scheyer.

jv001
02-23-2010, 03:59 PM
Kyle is a tweener, sizewise, not quite quick enough to guard NBA 3s and not quite big enough to guard NBA 4s. Mason brings above-average athleticism for an NBA 4, and is thus a better pro prospect.

Kyle is one of the best all-around players in college bb. He's 6-8 and very strong. A few weeks ago I would have said his shooting is suspect to play the 3 in the NBA, but recently he's gotten his shooting eye back. Especially from 3 point range. As for Mason, he has a very good vertical leep. However he has not shown that he can finish around the rim. At this point in his career, he does not have an outside shot to keep defenders honest. And worst of all he fouls way too much. I see the potential to be a much better player. For one thing he can use his left hand more in shooting around the basket. He needs to watch some of Carlos Boozer's moves. I just think he has not played well enough for Forde to make that observation. I do hope he improves because he is critical to our hopes in the NCAA Tournament. Go Duke!

CDu
02-23-2010, 04:09 PM
Mason is 31 and Kyle is 49. I know Forde is thinking potential, but I just don't see Mason being that far ahead of Kyle. Now or in the future. Hope Mason proves me wrong. Go Duke!

Chad Ford is just compiling what he hears from scouts into a guesstimate of where these players rate. NBA teams draft largely based on potential. And the potential they see from Plumlee is much higher than that of Singler. Plumlee is the far superior "athlete" for his position. And big men are always more highly valued than small forwards.

Could it be that Singler is the better NBA player? Sure, and I wouldn't be all that surprised. It wouldn't be the first time that the NBA folks missed on a guy simply because they drafted on untapped potential over more proven talent.

It's also important to note that the difference between 31 and 49 on a draft board in March is probably not all that much.

CDu
02-23-2010, 04:10 PM
Kyle is one of the best all-around players in college bb. He's 6-8 and very strong. A few weeks ago I would have said his shooting is suspect to play the 3 in the NBA, but recently he's gotten his shooting eye back. Especially from 3 point range. As for Mason, he has a very good vertical leep. However he has not shown that he can finish around the rim. At this point in his career, he does not have an outside shot to keep defenders honest. And worst of all he fouls way too much. I see the potential to be a much better player. For one thing he can use his left hand more in shooting around the basket. He needs to watch some of Carlos Boozer's moves. I just think he has not played well enough for Forde to make that observation. I do hope he improves because he is critical to our hopes in the NCAA Tournament. Go Duke!

It's not Pat Forde - it's Chad Ford. And it's not just Ford's observation. He's basing it on his conversations with NBA scouts.

jv001
02-23-2010, 04:15 PM
It's not Pat Forde - it's Chad Ford. And it's not just Ford's observation. He's basing it on his conversations with NBA scouts.

Thank you for pointing that out to me. Ford, ok I've got it. Go Duke!

CDu
02-23-2010, 04:22 PM
Thank you for pointing that out to me. Ford, ok I've got it. Go Duke!

No sweat. I just wasn't sure if you were thinking it was the writer (Pat Forde) or not, so I just wanted to clarify. It would be completely fair to highly question Forde's opinion on the matter. But Ford has a lot of access to people in the know in the NBA, and this is mainly his assessment of what he hears from his NBA contacts.

Of course, I'm sure there's a lot of variability in what he hears from the NBA folks. And the NBA folks are definitely not always correct in their assessments. So it's certainly possible that Singler should be valued more. But Ford is just estimating the order that the NBA folks seem to value them.

SilkyJ
02-23-2010, 04:25 PM
NBA draft position seems to be about size for the position as well as athleticism, and you have to have both. Nolan and Delaney are both very small for an NBA 2

True, but combo guards are definitely en vogue right now, and Nolan definitely fits that mold and Delaney could almost certainly play lots of PG in the League.

A few examples of the top of my head: Ben Gordon was a top 5 draft pick. Guys like Leandro Barbosa, Monta Ellis, Delonte West, and Jason Terry are all 6'3 or smaller, considered "combo guards," and play plenty of SG.

Basically, I ain't buyin it.

jv001
02-23-2010, 04:29 PM
No sweat. I just wasn't sure if you were thinking it was the writer (Pat Forde) or not, so I just wanted to clarify. It would be completely fair to highly question Forde's opinion on the matter. But Ford has a lot of access to people in the know in the NBA, and this is mainly his assessment of what he hears from his NBA contacts.

Of course, I'm sure there's a lot of variability in what he hears from the NBA folks. And the NBA folks are definitely not always correct in their assessments. So it's certainly possible that Singler should be valued more. But Ford is just estimating the order that the NBA folks seem to value them.

I'm wondering if I'm over estimating Kyle and under estimating Mason. I look at Kyle as a freshman and Mason in this his freshman year and I see a big difference. Kyle was a good player and was very important to our success. Then I look at Mason and see the untapped talent and I'm disappointed. Only time will tell. And as I said I hope Mason proves me wrong. Starting soon. Go Duke!

NSDukeFan
02-23-2010, 04:46 PM
Kyle is a tweener, sizewise, not quite quick enough to guard NBA 3s and not quite big enough to guard NBA 4s. Mason brings above-average athleticism for an NBA 4, and is thus a better pro prospect.

I know your analysis is correct based on what the NBA scouts are likely looking for, but using this rationale, Mason fouls too much to guard NBA 4s. :D Hopefully this will change over the remainder of the season.

Kedsy
02-23-2010, 05:06 PM
I know your analysis is correct based on what the NBA scouts are likely looking for, but using this rationale, Mason fouls too much to guard NBA 4s. :D Hopefully this will change over the remainder of the season.

True enough. Just because someone might draft Mason this year (if he were available) doesn't mean he wouldn't be shipped straight to the NBDL.

rotogod00
03-03-2010, 09:43 AM
Chad Ford's Top 100 ACC draft prospects (recently updated):
4. Derrick Favors
6. Ed Davis
7. Al-Farouq Aminu
13. Solomon Alabi
27. John Henson
29. Trevor Booker
31. Mason Plumlee
26. Gani Lawal
49. Kyle Singler
54. Iman Shumpert
59. Sylven Landesberg
60. Jon Scheyer
61. Chris Singleton
72. Xavier Gibson
80. Malcolm Delaney
89. Greivis Vasquez


Figured I'd update this with Ford's latest and greatest:

4. Derrick Favors
6. Ed Davis
7. Al-Farouq Aminu
19. Solomon Alabi
28. John Henson
31. Trevor Booker
35. Mason Plumlee
37. Gani Lawal
49. Kyle Singler
54. Iman Shumpert
59. Sylven Landesberg
60. Jon Scheyer
61. Chris Singleton
72. Xavier Gibson
80. Malcolm Delaney
90. Greivis Vasquez

slower
03-03-2010, 10:49 AM
True enough. Just because someone might draft Mason this year (if he were available) doesn't mean he wouldn't be shipped straight to the NBDL.

Thabeet (#2 overall pick) just got shipped there.

Matches
03-03-2010, 11:13 AM
Always important to remember that most NBA teams draft on potential rather than college results, and increasingly they will draft players they know aren't ready to contribute right away. I don't think anyone would suggest with a straight face that Henson or Plumlee are ready to step in and play real minutes on an NBA team. That's only one factor to consider when assessing their draft potential, though, and increasingly it's not the most important one.

hotbutteredseoul
03-03-2010, 12:33 PM
A few examples of the top of my head: Ben Gordon was a top 5 draft pick. Guys like Leandro Barbosa, Monta Ellis, Delonte West, and Jason Terry are all 6'3 or smaller, considered "combo guards," and play plenty of SG.

Basically, I ain't buyin it.

There are a few problems with comparing these guys to Nolan. Barbosa and Ellis are successful because of their absolutely absurd quickness. Nolan's a good athlete, but he's just not in the same league with those two. Terry (who USED to be an uber-quick guy himself) and Gordon are bombers who can shoot from anywhere. Nolan's shot has DRAMATICALLY improved this year, but I don't like his chances of surviving in the NBA based on his ability to light it up from the outside.

West is by far the best comparison. West is a lockdown defender, a glue guy, a hustle guy, who shoots well, handles well, and passes well. He can be really effective without dominating the ball (having Lebron feeding you helps, but still). If Nolan can really improve his one on one defense, I could see him playing a similar role at some point in the future. West is, of course, a hell of a player who is probably a little more physically gifted and a little bigger than Nolan is, but work rate goes a long way in the NBA.

johnb
03-03-2010, 01:12 PM
I'm a little surprised not to see a mention of Zoubek. He is showing himself to be physically dominant in the paint against conference competition, and you can't teach his size. His single biggest liability is fouls, and most of his wouldn't get called in the NBA. He doesn't have the leaping ability of most NBA players, obviously, but I've thought for a few years that he would end up with an NBA paycheck...

bl33dblu3
03-03-2010, 01:59 PM
Mason is 31 and Kyle is 49. I know Forde is thinking potential, but I just don't see Mason being that far ahead of Kyle. Now or in the future. Hope Mason proves me wrong. Go Duke!

maybe true several weeks ago. Mason's stock has fallen and Singler's increased. Overall potential that's a different story.