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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 81, Miami 74 Post-Game Thread



Jumbo
02-17-2010, 08:16 PM
Enjoy a lovely discussion.

jipops
02-17-2010, 08:18 PM
Love the fortitude and grit shown in the 2nd half. Wonderful outcome.

Jon a had rough outing but was huge in the clutch. I love that when we needed a shot we got one.

Another terrific game from Zou.

dukestheheat
02-17-2010, 08:19 PM
I'm proud of the team for showing great effort and resilience to get that win; with Scheyer struggling for most of the game, they had the guts, on the road, to put together a great second half and escape with the win. Zoubek was GREAT again and Nolan Smith gets my vote for MOTM.

dth.

fisheyes
02-17-2010, 08:19 PM
A tremendous gutty comeback. Z was awesome during the first half and during that first few minutes of the second half. Without him, we wouldn't have had the chance to make the comeback. Way to go Z! A great win to build off of. Way to go Coach K! What does he say at halftime?

mgtr
02-17-2010, 08:20 PM
If any of our players were getting the big head, and thinking they would just out and chalk up another win, this game put paid to that notion. Happy with the outcome, but we will have to play better than that against Virginia Tech. I hope Zoubs keeps playing at this level.

CDu
02-17-2010, 08:20 PM
Awful first half. Great second half.

Singler really stepped up in the second half, and Smith and (eventually) Scheyer joined in. 22 points, 11 rebounds, and 4 assists for Singler. He was just grizzly in the second half.

Great effort by Zoubek as well. 10 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 5 steals(!) from the big guy. Way to follow up a career game with another solid game. Hopefully he's really getting confidence.

Tough night (again) for Miles. He's really fallen off ever since the Wake game. Better game by Mason, though, with fewer cheap fouls. Maybe he's starting to figure it out.

But it was just really nice to see the team step up from a horrific first half and fight for a win on the road in the second half. Hopefully we can build on this game moving forward, knowing we can overcome adversity now.

gwwilburn
02-17-2010, 08:20 PM
Not the kind of when I had pictured, but I'll take it. Zoubek was great, and Smith and Scheyer finally got it going when we needed it. Kyle was key in initiating that run to start the second half. Nice to see a three from Andre.

Indoor66
02-17-2010, 08:21 PM
I'm proud of the team for showing great effort and resilience to get that win; with Scheyer struggling for most of the game, they had the guts, on the road, to put together a great second half and escape with the win. Zoubek was GREAT again and Nolan Smith gets my vote for MOTM.

dth.

Nolan had some bad moments in this game. He reverted to pounding the ball and to not seeing much on the court around him. Singler or Z for MOTM.

OldSchool
02-17-2010, 08:21 PM
Laying 56 points on Miami in their house in one half of basketball, after Miami had closed us down and had all the confidence in the world at halftime, shows what this team is made of.

Saratoga2
02-17-2010, 08:23 PM
First Half

Miami's zone bothered Dukes shooters. They seemed to lack confidence and floundered to find a way to score. The big three looked like they were the NC State game in reprise.

2nd Half

More ball movement. More taking the ball inside. Better 3 point shooting. Miami was tough and didn't go away. This took a major team effort. The big three played well in this half and Zoubek played well the entire game. He still brings the ball down, but now he manages to go up and score. He set screens, he made passes and he was active rebounding and on defense.

Tough road win we certainly could have lost. We showed toughness and senior leadership and came away strong.

weezie
02-17-2010, 08:23 PM
I'll bet the coaching staff will be especially enjoying their first beer together after the game.

CLW
02-17-2010, 08:24 PM
Z has really turned it on of late. If he could just stay out of foul trouble. Guy did it all tonight: scored in the post; rebounds; screens; solid D.

91devil
02-17-2010, 08:24 PM
Maybe part of the reason we were so lethargic in the first half was the atmosphere and the crowd? Wow, that place seemed dull tonight.

Only got loud in the second half AFTER we took the lead and the 'Canes mounted that mini-rally.

The baseline screens (by and large, set by Brian and Lance) were excellent tonight...how many open looks did we have from the corner? Well done.

Faison1
02-17-2010, 08:25 PM
The team is clearly improving, and I'd say they would have lost this game about a month ago. Sure, there's a couple concerns, but man, what a great comeback!

I was really impressed with how tough the guys were.....great win....congrats guys!

jipops
02-17-2010, 08:25 PM
Z has really turned it on of late. If he could just stay out of foul trouble. Guy did it all tonight: scored in the post; rebounds; screens; solid D.

Z also had FIVE steals.

dukestheheat
02-17-2010, 08:26 PM
I'll bet the coaching staff will be especially enjoying their first beer together after the game.

.....anyone wanna bet WHAT WAS SAID by 'them' at the half? Duke comes out and they looked like a different team after the half! I don't think K and the boys were sharing Valentine's candy in there, I can tell ya that.

dth.

VaDukie
02-17-2010, 08:26 PM
Nice to see us rally in the 2nd half, but I'd still rather avoid those first half no shows to begin with.

CDu
02-17-2010, 08:26 PM
Nolan had some bad moments in this game. He reverted to pounding the ball and to not seeing much on the court around him. Singler or Z for MOTM.

Agreed. Smith and Scheyer looked really tentative out there for most of the game. Smith made some really bad decisions, and Scheyer just couldn't make any shots for about 35 minutes.

Fortunately, Zoubek played well and Singler was just a beast in the second half. And eventually Smith and Scheyer got it going again.

But I agree - Singler was player of the game, with Zoubek second. Too rough a game from Smith and Scheyer to consider them.

bird
02-17-2010, 08:26 PM
Z is the emotional leader of the team.

Newton_14
02-17-2010, 08:26 PM
Say what you want but that is a game we do not win a month ago. The response in the 2nd half was exactly what we needed in the other road games that we lost. That is progress. The defense tightened up and the offense went into attack mode.

As bad as the first half was, the 2nd half looked like a different team. Good movement on offense in the 2nd half, better decisions, better shot selection, better everything. I thought scoring off drives helped free the pressure on the 3 Ball and we shot looser with more confidence in the 2nd half. Loved the drives by Kyle where he fed Miles and Mason with easy lob finishes. We need more of that. Zoubs scored well in the post as well.

Miami has a lot of good young talent and Haith is a good coach. Very glad to come out of there with a win.

D.C. Devil
02-17-2010, 08:27 PM
This game smelled so much like NCSU through the first half. Great to see everybody step UP after the half.

What's more, I feel like K was getting good minutes from Mason but just didn't have enough positions on the floor.

DeBlueDevil
02-17-2010, 08:28 PM
Wooooo!!! 22-4 overall, 10-2 in the acc!! Boys we're in first place and playing tough bball. Not the prettiest win but I'll take it. We definitely are capable of playing better but I'll leave everyone with a quote that is so true. "Good teams find ways to win"

moonpie23
02-17-2010, 08:29 PM
this was a great win.......maybe bigger than clemson cause NOTHING was going right in the first half...


great turn around by the staff and the team...

congrats guys !!!!

Jumbo
02-17-2010, 08:32 PM
I'm going to circle back and read everyone's comments, but first of all, this was an old-school Duke response to adversity -- jump the other team right away in the first 5 minutes of the first half. Loved it.

I also want to point out the following underrated aspects of the game that will probably be lost in much of the analysis that follows:
-Zoubek's hedging on screens -- forced a pair of turnovers early in the second half and showed that he can move effectively.
-Kelly's high-post passing -- when nothing was going right offensively in the first half, he created two buckets by perfectly feeding Zoubek.
-Smith's ball pressure -- really took Miami out of what they wanted to do on numerous sets.
-Scheyer's wing defense -- on a horrible shooting night, he did a great job guarding the wing and had at least 5 steals (waiting for the official box score on goduke.com).

It was nice to see Duke face some adversity on the road and multiple zone looks and respond with a dominating second half.

devildownunder
02-17-2010, 08:33 PM
This was a good conference road win for confidence. Nice gut check at halftime. What on earth was going on in the first half? Can't really say more because I couldn't watch at work. Had to follow online.

roywhite
02-17-2010, 08:33 PM
Coach K on the postgame

great win for our team...story of two halves...can get complacent after big wins...edge was missing first half...scored 56, played great in 2nd half...Brian did good job...Collins is a load...better defense 2nd half...when they went to zone, Duke went to "hit and cut"....performed beautifully...made some bone-headed plays late, but hit free throws...proud of our guys...many teams wouldn't have been able to turn it around in second half on road...big win...lessons learned hopefully

BD80
02-17-2010, 08:36 PM
Maybe part of the reason we were so lethargic in the first half was the atmosphere and the crowd? ...

Dude, its Miami. You can't just walk in from the beach and play ACC level basketball. It takes 20 minutes or so to adjust.


When did Kyle pick up the mouse under his left eye?


Coaching suggestion. Don't play Nolan in the first half, play Andre. Nolan doesn't show up until the 2nd half and it will get Andre the PT everyone wants to see him get, including Hubert.


Did Hubert really confuse Ryan for Lance?


I hope Miles is following the Zoubek carrer path, but accelerated by a factor of 1.75.

dukelifer
02-17-2010, 08:36 PM
Earlier in the season I commented that Duke had not had enough different kinds of wins. A good team needs to win big- they need to win close games- they need to win ugly and they need to win coming from behind. Up until BC- they had only won big. Today they showed they can come back- and on the road. This was a big step for this team- you could see a confident team down the stretch - minus a few boneheaded plays. You have to like what you saw tonight.

ice-9
02-17-2010, 08:40 PM
Agreed that Nolan played a terrible first half, but thought he was spot on in the second half.

- Super active defensively, directly/indirectly causing turnovers.

- Lights out shooting, making 6 of 7.

- Continuing to attack even with that nasty moving screen (should've been a flagrant).

- Being clutch on free throws and on that 3-pointer as the shot clock wound down.

I voted Singler as MOTM but I also thought Nolan played like a leader in the second half.

Jumbo
02-17-2010, 08:40 PM
Z is the emotional leader of the team.

No. That would be Lance.

GoingFor#5
02-17-2010, 08:41 PM
Anyone else think Hubert Davis was taking shots at Duke? He seemed to drone on about the girl with the sign, Coach K's issue with the horn, and seemed to me to be openly rooting for Miami at times. He was acting weird, too, laughing too much at some things that weren't even funny.

dukejim1
02-17-2010, 08:42 PM
Good contributions from all players although we need Miles to bounce back from a down period for him.

moonpie23
02-17-2010, 08:43 PM
He was acting weird, too,


dood...he's a tarhole....


always...

91devil
02-17-2010, 08:44 PM
Dude, its Miami. You can't just walk in from the beach and play ACC level basketball. It takes 20 minutes or so to adjust.



'Dude', so I guess you agree with me?

HateCarolina
02-17-2010, 08:46 PM
This game smelled so much like NCSU through the first half. Great to see everybody step UP after the half.

I could not agree more. We could not hit the side of the barn with our shots (and we missed how many lay ups?) and they were basically hitting everything they threw up (and I do mean threw...NOT shoot).

The difference this time was that we came out immediately in the second half and blitzed them. I was glad to see both Kelly and Andre getting some court time in this game and I was scared that Zoub was returing to his old ways for the first few minutes of the game, but then it seemed like it all started clicking for him the rest of the game. I'm afraid Miles is trying to do too much...I think he got three fouls within two minutes in the second half and two of them were for the same dumb thing right in front of the Miami bench.

As everyone else said this was a great come behind win for us, but I am afraid if we have a first half like this in the tournament that we'll be done. I do not want to sound down on our boys after such a great win, but I see other comments and threads talking about us as a #1 seed, etc, etc.

Let's beat the Hokies down in Cameron on Sunday!! Go Blue Devils!!!

TNDukeFan
02-17-2010, 08:46 PM
Anyone else think Hubert Davis was taking shots at Duke? He seemed to drone on about the girl with the sign, Coach K's issue with the horn, and seemed to me to be openly rooting for Miami at times. He was acting weird, too, laughing too much at some things that weren't even funny.

Don't think so. He did go on about the horn, but other than that was very complimentary of pretty much all aspects of the team.

roywhite
02-17-2010, 08:52 PM
https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/672315.pdf?ATCLID=204889843&SPSID=22760&SPID=1846&DB_OEM_ID=4200

From the boxscore:

Miami shot well but committed 22 turnovers
kyle with 22 points, 11 rebs, 4 assists...huge
12 steals for Duke..5 each for Jon and Zoubs
Scott and Collins were excellent for Miami

loldevilz
02-17-2010, 08:57 PM
No. That would be Lance.

Don't forget Scheyer. His three when we were up 1 was the biggest shot of the game. The man has been clutch.

OldSchool
02-17-2010, 08:59 PM
-Kelly's high-post passing -- when nothing was going right offensively in the first half, he created two buckets by perfectly feeding Zoubek.


I wish our guards would try more often to pass over the defender to Z under the basket. Lance did it last game, Ryan this game and I seem to recall Mason doing it a few games ago. Z is so big that when the defender is fronting him he can seal him with his body and create space under the basket to catch the pass, as long as the help side defender isn't near the basket.

We need to value each conference road win this year - they are tough to come by. Twerps currently down 10 at the half to the last place team in the conference.

PallasAthena
02-17-2010, 08:59 PM
Anyone else think Hubert Davis was taking shots at Duke? He seemed to drone on about the girl with the sign, Coach K's issue with the horn, and seemed to me to be openly rooting for Miami at times. He was acting weird, too, laughing too much at some things that weren't even funny.

I generally have enjoyed Hubert Davis, but he was AWFUL tonight. Clearly laughing at Duke in the first half, repeating the mantra of some on this board, "They HAVE to play Andre Dawkins more." No offense, but isn't he being paid to do more than read and repeat criticism of Duke on DBR?

SCMatt33
02-17-2010, 09:00 PM
First things first. I think we learned some thing about our resolve in the second half. After what happened against State, they could have easily let this one slip away too. Miami didn't let up off of the gas really. They shot over 50% in the second half. Great job by all. Now a few specifics.

Zoubek: Another great game for him. He had 5 steals which really helped because they killed us on our defensive boards. Duke had 12 defensive rebounds and Miami had 11 offensive rebounds. That's pretty bad, but acceptable when you generate 22 turnovers.

Singler: He really put us on his back during the run, scoring early and often in the second half.

Scheyer: Held down most of the game, he hit some really clutch shots when they got close.

I think one of the more telling offensive stats from the game is that Duke had 17 assists on 25 made FG's. When your having trouble with a zone, like we did in the first half, that's a good way to beat it. We took a lot of three's. Almost half of our shots were from behind the line, but when you hit over 44% of them, it's okay. Some of them weren't the best shot, but you can pour it on when you have the momentum.

Final thought. I had been really worried about the stat with Duke being 20-0 when giving up 70 or less, and only 1-4 when giving up 71 or more. That is now 2-4. I think this had a lot to do with opposing players being comfortable at home and shooting well, and our offense couldn't keep up. In the second half the offense really did great. Hopefully, that will spark us on the road the rest of the way.

dyedwab
02-17-2010, 09:05 PM
1) Almost hard to imagine how the put on that great a second half after that bad a first half. Kudos for resilience and toughness

2) Kyle was great, and my MOTM, but we don't win that game without Zoubek. Zoubs seems to be growing in confidence with every game.

3) Really credit to Nolan. Offensively, we was way off in the 1st half, but it didn't effect his defense, and he came back strong in the 2nd half.

4) Quality minutes for Dawkins and Kelly...pleased with that.

5) All is all, a good road win and even with the road troubles we have had, we are the only team with 4 conference road wins in the ACC this year.

Jumbo
02-17-2010, 09:06 PM
Anyone else think Hubert Davis was taking shots at Duke? He seemed to drone on about the girl with the sign, Coach K's issue with the horn, and seemed to me to be openly rooting for Miami at times. He was acting weird, too, laughing too much at some things that weren't even funny.

Not even close. I thought Hubert was great, as usual.

CrazyNotCrazie
02-17-2010, 09:07 PM
It was great to see Zoubek continue to build on the confidence gained from the last game. Coach K is really figuring out how to use him well, and this will take some pressure off the Plumlees as well.

Mason needs to learn to call out picks - we can't have Nolan get killed out there - I'm sure Mason heard it from the coaches afterwards.

TNDukeFan
02-17-2010, 09:08 PM
Not even close. I thought Hubert was great, as usual.

He and Mike Patrick both were emphatic about the flagrant screen on Nolan.

mgtr
02-17-2010, 09:10 PM
I though Hubert was very complimentary about Duke and Coach K tonight. But the best part is when he was asked what was going on with the light blue team -- he was almost speechless at first.

Jumbo
02-17-2010, 09:13 PM
Don't forget Scheyer. His three when we were up 1 was the biggest shot of the game. The man has been clutch.

I'm talking about emotional leadership. Scheyer is clearly THE leader of this team. But Thomas is well-established as the "emotional" captain, and the guy whose vocal nature others feed off. Two different things.

Jumbo
02-17-2010, 09:15 PM
I generally have enjoyed Hubert Davis, but he was AWFUL tonight. Clearly laughing at Duke in the first half, repeating the mantra of some on this board, "They HAVE to play Andre Dawkins more." No offense, but isn't he being paid to do more than read and repeat criticism of Duke on DBR?

In what way was he "laughing at Duke?" He was making fun a moron who couldn't hold a sign up correctly. That's "making fun of Duke?" Please.

Wildcat
02-17-2010, 09:15 PM
These guys are beginning to remind me of the Duke teams of old. Very proud of these young men. They are playing with mental toughness, maturity, poise and a quiet mystique as to their capabilities as a team. Just observing K over the past two weeks or so; he too is loosening up, reminiscent of the K of old. He looks like he is enjoying his team again. Good win, these guys are coming of age as a team; a pleasant and welcoming surprise, given some thought we have peaked too early. I am liking what I see; despite the fact that Olek transferred:(

proelitedota
02-17-2010, 09:15 PM
Any replays out there? I got too nervous after the disastrous first half to watch. :(

Newton_14
02-17-2010, 09:18 PM
Not even close. I thought Hubert was great, as usual.

I have to agree. I had no problems with Hubert. He had a lot of good things to say about Duke. He hit the Andre PT angle a little harder than he should but Patrick jumped in and explained that Andre had struggled in practice and in games to counter what Hubert said.


Speaking of Andre..

Andre played well, I just wish he would move more on offense. If he is in for Jon or Nolan he needs to make the same cuts they would make rather than just hanging on the wing or in the corner. He also needs to pumpfake and drive more often. I know he has it in him. He just needs to feel confident enough out there to do it. His defense has improved though which is a good sign. If he can progress a little more down the stretch he could be a good scoring weapon in the tourney's to compliment JNK_S Inc. and make the offense even more dangerous.

As good as this team is right now, they are still developing. We have not yet seen the full extent of what they are capable of.

Jumbo
02-17-2010, 09:18 PM
These guys are beginning to remind me of the Duke teams of old. Very proud of these young men. They are playing with mental toughness, maturity, poise and a quiet mystique as to their capabilities as a team. Just observing K over the past two weeks or so; he too is loosening up, reminiscent of the K of old. He looks like he is enjoying his team again.

I couldn't agree more. Well said.

HateCarolina
02-17-2010, 09:20 PM
Anyone else think Hubert Davis was taking shots at Duke? He seemed to drone on about the girl with the sign, Coach K's issue with the horn, and seemed to me to be openly rooting for Miami at times. He was acting weird, too, laughing too much at some things that weren't even funny.


Don't think so. He did go on about the horn, but other than that was very complimentary of pretty much all aspects of the team.

I agree that he was not too bad at all. When I turned the game on and saw he was commentating I was nervous, but all in all I do not think he was bad at all. He did make fun of the sign being upside down, but that was pretty stupid and deserved to be made fun of...

superdave
02-17-2010, 09:22 PM
Any replays out there? I got too nervous after the disastrous first half to watch. :(

Get over your nerves and tune in live! Duke needs you onboard the bus!

78Devil
02-17-2010, 09:22 PM
I am properly ashamed for giving up on the team after the first half. I did "peek" at the play by play, so I wasn't a total loser....

I then watched the tape, and thought Hubert Davis did a fine job. He was just real loose and funny tonight. He and Mike Patrick actually make a pretty good team.

GoingFor#5
02-17-2010, 09:22 PM
I agree that he was not too bad at all. When I turned the game on and saw he was commentating I was nervous, but all in all I do not think he was bad at all. He did make fun of the sign being upside down, but that was pretty stupid and deserved to be made fun of...

Didn't he seem giggly to you? I thought he was knocking on Duke a few times, but maybe that's just me being oversensitive to it....he did seem to be laughing a lot and I wondered what had gotten into him.

Mrezt
02-17-2010, 09:23 PM
Might make a highlight movie again just for that 1st half dunk by Mason

superdave
02-17-2010, 09:24 PM
These guys are beginning to remind me of the Duke teams of old. Very proud of these young men. They are playing with mental toughness, maturity, poise and a quiet mystique as to their capabilities as a team. Just observing K over the past two weeks or so; he too is loosening up, reminiscent of the K of old. He looks like he is enjoying his team again. Good win, these guys are coming of age as a team; a pleasant and welcoming surprise, given some thought we have peaked too early. I am liking what I see; despite the fact that Olek transferred:(

Duke loses this game a month ago. Or it becomes almost our Waterloo a year ago. But this year, we weather the storm, fix our problems and cut short our mistakes. Our D is really really good and everyhting we do plays off the D.

jipops
02-17-2010, 09:24 PM
These guys are beginning to remind me of the Duke teams of old. Very proud of these young men. They are playing with mental toughness, maturity, poise and a quiet mystique as to their capabilities as a team. Just observing K over the past two weeks or so; he too is loosening up, reminiscent of the K of old. He looks like he is enjoying his team again. Good win, these guys are coming of age as a team; a pleasant and welcoming surprise, given some thought we have peaked too early. I am liking what I see; despite the fact that Olek transferred:(

Experience helps a lot. We've got great senior leadership with Jon, Lance and Zoubek plus a tough as nails kid in Kyle. I don't think we've had this kind of combined experience on a Duke team in quite some time.

Ima Facultiwyfe
02-17-2010, 09:26 PM
Z also had FIVE steals.

.....we call him "Zouberman"! Bless his big ol' heart!
Love, Ima

jipops
02-17-2010, 09:28 PM
I though Hubert was very complimentary about Duke and Coach K tonight. But the best part is when he was asked what was going on with the light blue team -- he was almost speechless at first.

Hubert is a pro. One of a small handful of professionals employed by espn to commentate games in my opinion. I don't hold his college choice against him one bit.

proelitedota
02-17-2010, 09:36 PM
Get over your nerves and tune in live! Duke needs you onboard the bus!

Nervousness is just one reason, the past losses that we have, I watched till the end. The past close games that we had, I turned off halfway and we manage to rally back.

OldSchool
02-17-2010, 09:36 PM
But the best part is when he was asked what was going on with the light blue team -- he was almost speechless at first.

That was the elephant in the room. Patrick waited until the very end of the game to broach the subject, and did so with the words "I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about..."

The biggest story of the season in the ACC is that the preseason #4 team in the country, picked by many to finish (with Duke) at the top of the heap, has plummeted to about the bottom of the conference in one of the most dramatic collapses in ACC history.

And a related big story is that Roy has become a babbling lunatic.

One can barely imagine the media scrutiny if this collapse had befallen a darker shade of blue.

trinity79
02-17-2010, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by GoingFor#4
Anyone else think Hubert Davis was taking shots at Duke? He seemed to drone on about the girl with the sign, Coach K's issue with the horn, and seemed to me to be openly rooting for Miami at times. He was acting weird, too, laughing too much at some things that weren't even funny.
================================================== =======
If I didn't know better, I'd think Hubert had been driving on Highway "420" if you know what I mean. But it seemed good-natured for the most part. I mean, his team is a joke this year. Guess the guy just needs a reason to laugh.

DukeUsul
02-17-2010, 09:40 PM
Loved that second half.

It's great to see Zoubs play with confidence.

The two quick fouls Miles picked up were because he put both his hands on the ballhandler. He needs to learn to keep his hands up and feet in front of a ballhandler out at the three-pt line.

loldevilz
02-17-2010, 09:41 PM
I enjoyed tonight's game but I'm still not sure we've solved all our issues. Each road games seems to bring up new shortcomings. Here are some thoughts:

1) I would like to see Lance step up his offensive play. Every time he tries to make a move he turns it over.

2) I would also to see more Andre Dawkins. Scheyer's foul trouble in the first half should remind us why we need him.

3) We need to stop the stupid plays at the end of the game. Nolan's foul and Scheyer's turnovers were really disappointing.

greybeard
02-17-2010, 09:41 PM
Terrific play creation by Zoubek. He creates advantage and shows where the ball needs to be. If it is there, it is two. If Kelly had played more, Z could have had 20. The passer reads the receiver, which has been absent until last game during Z's career at Duke. For a while, he lost the ability to lead. He has found it, and Kelly sees what Z does before Z even begins to create the angle. Basketball at its best!

Newton_14
02-17-2010, 09:46 PM
Terrific play creation by Zoubek. He creates advantage and shows where the ball needs to be. If it is there, it is two. If Kelly had played more, Z could have had 20. The passer reads the receiver, which has been absent until last game during Z's career at Duke. For a while, he lost the ability to lead. He has found it, and Kelly sees what Z does before Z even begins to create the angle. Basketball at its best!

Kelly has shown to be one the best post feeders I have seen. He just had a unique skill to put the ball in the exact right spot with the perfect touch time and time again. I think he has a really bright future at Duke. Kid can shoot, pass, and handle really well for a big. Once he improves his strength and quickness he will be a real weapon. Future is bright for him.

Jumbo
02-17-2010, 09:53 PM
2) I would also to see more Andre Dawkins. Scheyer's foul trouble in the first half should remind us why we need him.
Dawkins played 11 minutes. Considering he is not a comfortable ball-handler, he shouldn't be on the floor longer than that, and he can't replace Scheyer. This wasn't a game to mess around.



3) We need to stop the stupid plays at the end of the game. Nolan's foul and Scheyer's turnovers were really disappointing.

Nolan's foul was silly, but Scheyer got fouled about 3 times before that turnover under the basket with ~20 seconds left. It was ridiculous that nothing was called.

BlueintheFace
02-17-2010, 09:55 PM
Plays in the game that stick:

-Kelly entry passes
-Dawkins gets a three
-Zoubek dives to the deck for a steal.
-Zoubek spin after the entry feed for the lay-in
-Scheyer steal in beginning of second half
-Singler acting like he might kill a man the play after Nolan got rocked (Miami is lucky they fouled him because that was a G moment waiting to happen)
-Scheyer with the under 4 minute dagger (AKA- the Scheyer special)
-Nolan with the second dagger under 2 minutes

jv001
02-17-2010, 09:56 PM
In the first half we let them bring it to us. In the 2nd half we got after them on defense and that got us going. Kyle came out fired up. Matter of fact all the guys came out fired up. Some good things that I saw; Good passing from Kyle, Zoubs and Ryan, 5 steals for Jon and Zoubs, clutch shooting from the Kyle, Jon and Nolan. Whoever said that this team reminds them of Duke teams of old must have read my mind. I really had confidence in those teams and I'm beginning to feel that way with this group of guys. Good upper class leadership with some talented young guys. Now let's put Va. Tech away. Go Duke!

dw0827
02-17-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm talking about emotional leadership. Scheyer is clearly THE leader of this team. But Thomas is well-established as the "emotional" captain, and the guy whose vocal nature others feed off. Two different things.

Scheyer may be THE leader, and Thomas may be the "emotional" leader . . . . but Kyle Singler is so gutsy. I absolutely love the hard nosed "lead by example" approach to his game. I thought tonight was one of his finest efforts. Maybe he's scored more and maybe he's been prettier at times. But holy cow, what a gamer.

The black eye spoke volumes . . . Kyle Singler . . . assassin.

I had some early doubts about how far this team could go this year . . . but no more. I live near KU and I'm telling you right now that we would match up very very well with KU.

I love the lineup we're starting right now.

Gewebe14
02-17-2010, 10:08 PM
Someone needs to give a shout out for that Mason Smash in the first half

jv001
02-17-2010, 10:09 PM
Scheyer may be THE leader, and Thomas may be the "emotional" leader . . . . but Kyle Singler is so gutsy. I absolutely love the hard nosed "lead by example" approach to his game. I thought tonight was one of his finest efforts. Maybe he's scored more and maybe he's been prettier at times. But holy cow, what a gamer.

The black eye spoke volumes . . . Kyle Singler . . . assassin.

I had some early doubts about how far this team could go this year . . . but no more. I live near KU and I'm telling you right now that we would match up very very well with KU.

I love the lineup we're starting right now.

I agree with you, Kyle is the guts of this team. Jon is the brains and Kyle is the brawn. I believe Kyle would fight a circle saw if it meant Duke winning. He's not afraid to mix it up. I really like this team and they are getting better with improvement still to be gained. Mason, Miles, Dre and Ryan have not scratched the surface of their ability. Go Duke!

jv001
02-17-2010, 10:11 PM
Coach K gets a horn thrown out of a game on the road but let's the fan stay and watch the game. That one ups ole roy any day of the week. Go Duke!

superdave
02-17-2010, 10:14 PM
-Zoubek dives to the deck for a steal.

-Singler acting like he might kill a man the play after Nolan got rocked (Miami is lucky they fouled him because that was a G moment waiting to happen)


Zoubek reminded me of an offensive lineman diving on a QB fumble. I sort of laughed when it happened.

I rewound Singler's big rebound and (almost) stick back. He really put the team on his back tonight. Currently playing his way onto the 3rd team AA team. A few more weeks of this and he'll be 2nd team AA.

dw0827
02-17-2010, 10:14 PM
I agree with you, Kyle is the guts of this team. Jon is the brains and Kyle is the brawn. I believe Kyle would fight a circle saw if it meant Duke winning. He's not afraid to mix it up. I really like this team and they are getting better with improvement still to be gained. Mason, Miles, Dre and Ryan have not scratched the surface of their ability. Go Duke!

After Nolan got smeared by the pick . . . did you see Kyle's reaction when the ball was up for grabs on the next play? He fought like hell . . . got the ball . . . and showed more emotion than I've seen a quite a while. Again, a "statement" rebound in direct response to what happened to Nolan. Wonderful stuff.

gofurman
02-17-2010, 10:22 PM
First Half

Miami's zone bothered Dukes shooters. They seemed to lack confidence and floundered to find a way to score. The big three looked like they were the NC State game in reprise.

2nd Half

More ball movement. More taking the ball inside. Better 3 point shooting. Miami was tough and didn't go away. This took a major team effort. The big three played well in this half and Zoubek played well the entire game. He still brings the ball down, but now he manages to go up and score. He set screens, he made passes and he was active rebounding and on defense.

Tough road win we certainly could have lost. We showed toughness and senior leadership and came away strong.

It always does. We always struggle with UM (not Maryland) and I think it is a direct response to the zone. When they zone with 3 out and 2 in they are daring us to beat them inside and ... what do you know - Zoub has a great game and the shooters struggle.

Please explain to me why they left this zone at the start of the second half? What was Haith thinking? Duke makes a great run and I am impressed with tenacity and a road win BUT I want to feel like we can handle that zone. I don't. I feel like Miami let us off the hook by going man-to-man for some reason I'll never understand.

We never do play well against that durn zone. Maybe we just don't see it enough (basically Miami is the only one that runs that D much)

Did anyone else see it the way I did- that Miami went away from the D that was giving us fits?

Kfanarmy
02-17-2010, 10:24 PM
...
I also want to point out the following underrated aspects of the game that will probably be lost in much of the analysis that follows:
-Zoubek's hedging on screens -- forced a pair of turnovers early in the second half and showed that he can move effectively.


Z had several defensive plays where he kept his hands above his head and simply moved his feet well enough to stop/trap a Miami player...last year he would have been called for a touch foul because his hands would have been down to the side...great adjustment to some of the fouls he's drawn in the past.

sagegrouse
02-17-2010, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by GoingFor#4
Anyone else think Hubert Davis was taking shots at Duke? He seemed to drone on about the girl with the sign, Coach K's issue with the horn, and seemed to me to be openly rooting for Miami at times. He was acting weird, too, laughing too much at some things that weren't even funny.


Not me. He's a good guy. Happy to have him call games. He's one of those guys who knows a bit of basketball, speaks reasonably well, and TREATS THE CONTEST LIKE IT IS A GAME. Which it is. Has learned a lot from Raftery in that regard, I suspect.

For the opposite approach, see Len Elmore.

sagegrouse

Kfanarmy
02-17-2010, 10:27 PM
Anyone else think Hubert Davis was taking shots at Duke? He seemed to drone on about the girl with the sign, Coach K's issue with the horn, and seemed to me to be openly rooting for Miami at times. He was acting weird, too, laughing too much at some things that weren't even funny. thought he was just chattering in a good natured way.

calltheobvious
02-17-2010, 10:46 PM
After Nolan got smeared by the pick . . . did you see Kyle's reaction when the ball was up for grabs on the next play? He fought like hell . . . got the ball . . . and showed more emotion than I've seen a quite a while. Again, a "statement" rebound in direct response to what happened to Nolan. Wonderful stuff.

Know who that reminded me of? Coach Badass.

WiJoe
02-17-2010, 10:56 PM
Know who that reminded me of? Coach Badass.



for those who do not know ... NATE JAMES!

Starter
02-17-2010, 10:59 PM
I thought Hubert called a pretty good game, gave them credit where it was due. I watched the game with my dad, and we had plenty of fun at the sign girl's expense ourselves. (We joked that Maryland fans will probably have a field day)

I realize I'm preaching to the choir, but I can't tell you how happy I am for Zoubek. It didn't look like he would ever really fit into this system, but he's making himself fit with overall inspired play, not to mention his obviously enhanced conditioning/physique. He has been affecting the game in so many ways -- not just his blocked shots, but the way he alters them; his ability to flash out to deter three-point shots; his dominance of the offensive boards; his quick hands (!) producing two key steals in the early moments of the second half; his dexterity on laying it in when they get it to him deep. Two outstanding games in a row is threatening to become a trend, and it's been giving them an element they haven't had since the days of Shelden Williams: a powerful big man that other teams have to account for. A shame we only have a few more weeks to watch him continue to grow at a rapid rate.

greybeard
02-17-2010, 11:02 PM
Kelly has shown to be one the best post feeders I have seen. He just had a unique skill to put the ball in the exact right spot with the perfect touch time and time again. I think he has a really bright future at Duke. Kid can shoot, pass, and handle really well for a big. Once he improves his strength and quickness he will be a real weapon. Future is bright for him.

Agreed, and he sees it before it opens. Z has that same quality, seeing the possible and deciding quickly the best route. When you get too guys who can do that, the high/low game can become special. Z has to make catches in front with angles, and finish going either way, left/right, and guarding him with the ball in Kelly's hands puts great pressure on a defense. If you make a defense guard the rim against such shots, wow do things open up.

Key is to be able to create that pressure when the pressure is on to score. Duke has started a tad late (you think), but I think that it is a real possibility.

Anyway, I love this aspect of the game and Duke appears ready to perhaps have it really blossom.

Jumbo
02-17-2010, 11:22 PM
Agreed, and he sees it before it opens. Z has that same quality, seeing the possible and deciding quickly the best route. When you get too guys who can do that, the high/low game can become special. Z has to make catches in front with angles, and finish going either way, left/right, and guarding him with the ball in Kelly's hands puts great pressure on a defense. If you make a defense guard the rim against such shots, wow do things open up.

Key is to be able to create that pressure when the pressure is on to score. Duke has started a tad late (you think), but I think that it is a real possibility.

Anyway, I love this aspect of the game and Duke appears ready to perhaps have it really blossom.

And the key, as you sort of mention, is Zoubek's work off the ball. If he does a good enough job establish proper post position and seals off his defender at an angle, he simply needs to catch a good pass, keep the ball high and finish. He essentially makes the play before he has the ball, provided the entry pass is on target. That allows Zoubek to be a threat without actually needing to make a ball with his back to the basket and the ball in his hands. That's when he gets himself into trouble with footwork, keeping the ball low, etc. This is something you've always grasped, and I think Zoubek and his teammates are getting it now, too. It's especially effective when the 4-man, whether it's Thomas, Mason or Kelly, is making that pass, because Duke's perimeter players can spread the floor, and defenders simply can't help off them to prevent Zoubek from making the catch, particularly when the pass hasn't been thrown.

In short, the fact that Zoubek is simply making himself a threat -- in addition to all the great screens he sets -- will help the three perimeter guys tremendously.

Greg_Newton
02-17-2010, 11:50 PM
This was the first game that Kyle has legitimately looked like the best SF in the country. He's had several high-scoring games where he got hot from 3, but the way he simply put the team on his back today and willed us back in the game was remarkable... he had that killer instinct back. Heckuva comeback.

Hopefully Jon's back gets better, those nagging lower back injuries are the worst. Those two threes were HUGE, but you could tell it was bothering him.

So great to see it all coming together for Z. I'm especially glad he's been looking for his shot more when he's within ~8' of the rim lately. My one piece of advice for the big fella: when you get it that close, be content to simply take a power dribble and shoot over your defender. He seems to get it in his head sometimes that "making a move" must entail getting around his defender, which is when he ends up getting too horizontal/off balance and leaves his comfort zone.

One nitpick: while Z gave a heroic effort with 29 minutes tonight (and with only 4 fouls), I would like to see Mason getting about 5 more of those. Reasoning: a) Mason has been playing much better lately (tonight's chart notwithstanding), and is much less of a liability on the floor than he was in January. Plus, potential, athleticism, x-factor, etc, you know the rest.

But mainly, b) I just don't think Z has the legs to consistently play 25-30 minutes. As great as he played in his first 25 minutes, let's not forget how he was getting abused by Collins in the last 3-4 minutes. Even on the play where Collins dribbled the ball off his foot, Z's legs went rubbery and almost gave out on him completely. It's great for him to be a hero for a couple games, but hopefully we'll see more of a balance going forward... Z ain't gonna give us 50-60 minutes in 3 days in March.

And Miles... :(

buzz
02-17-2010, 11:54 PM
A put-back dunk, a beautiful left-handed spin-move to the hoop, and a diving steal, all in the last two games. Amazing. What else does Z have up his sleeve? How about ACC player of the week?

p.s. - Mason, loved the dunks, but please stop slapping the backboard.

Neals384
02-18-2010, 12:00 AM
Coach K gets a horn thrown out of a game on the road but let's the fan stay and watch the game. That one ups ole roy any day of the week. Go Duke!

It was a conch shell that bozo was blowing, not a horn!

Neals384
02-18-2010, 12:02 AM
It always does. We always struggle with UM (not Maryland) and I think it is a direct response to the zone. When they zone with 3 out and 2 in they are daring us to beat them inside and ... what do you know - Zoub has a great game and the shooters struggle.

Please explain to me why they left this zone at the start of the second half? What was Haith thinking? Duke makes a great run and I am impressed with tenacity and a road win BUT I want to feel like we can handle that zone. I don't. I feel like Miami let us off the hook by going man-to-man for some reason I'll never understand.

We never do play well against that durn zone. Maybe we just don't see it enough (basically Miami is the only one that runs that D much)

Did anyone else see it the way I did- that Miami went away from the D that was giving us fits?

Absolutely. I expected Miami to go right back to the zone as soon as Duke started to catch up in the 2nd half....it was a bit mystifying.

Neals384
02-18-2010, 12:04 AM
Today, Duke deployed a new and effective defense - the Kyle Falls Down defense. It happened in the 2nd half - he fell down in the lane, got the floor all sweaty. A few seconds later the Miami player slid and got called for traveling.:p

-bdbd
02-18-2010, 12:11 AM
Z is the emotional leader of the team.

I agree that Zoubs plays an increasingly big emotional role for this team. But something that I noticed tonight was that all three seniors more than once got togethewr after a big play to high-5, and had serious eye contact. It's like, "this is our last go-'round and we are NOT going let this team wilt. ....OUR team."

I was kinda surprised by some of the bullying by the Miami players. I didn't realize that rep coming in. Such as the thrown shoulder "pick" on Nolan - shoulda been a flagrant (but boy does he attract those!), Kyle's black eye (no comment from the announcers...), the general very physical game esp on the interior and, did anyone else notice, one of the Mia players took a cheap shot at Z up by the FT line as time expired. Just a lot of punkish behavior. Would like to see us fight back more in coming games, if only to send a message about trying to bully Duke in the future...

Good 'grit' game guys. Great to come out with a W.

Kedsy
02-18-2010, 12:41 AM
I was kinda surprised by some of the bullying by the Miami players. I didn't realize that rep coming in. Such as the thrown shoulder "pick" on Nolan - shoulda been a flagrant (but boy does he attract those!), Kyle's black eye (no comment from the announcers...), the general very physical game esp on the interior and, did anyone else notice, one of the Mia players took a cheap shot at Z up by the FT line as time expired. Just a lot of punkish behavior. Would like to see us fight back more in coming games, if only to send a message about trying to bully Duke in the future...

Kyle's black eye was mentioned by the announcers -- they said it happened in practice yesterday. Nothing to do with any alleged thugishness on Miami's part.

I thought both teams were very physical tonight. The refs may have let them play a little too much.

And regarding Hubert, in addition to his work as Andre Dawkins personal representative, he was practically drooling over Z and said that Kyle was the best SF in the country. I was wary when the game began, assuming his UNC/anti-Duke colors would shine through, but I was forced to revise my opinion, because he never showed them.

CameronConvert
02-18-2010, 12:42 AM
I agree that Zoubs plays an increasingly big emotional role for this team. But something that I noticed tonight was that all three seniors more than once got togethewr after a big play to high-5, and had serious eye contact. It's like, "this is our last go-'round and we are NOT going let this team wilt. ....OUR team."

I was kinda surprised by some of the bullying by the Miami players. I didn't realize that rep coming in. Such as the thrown shoulder "pick" on Nolan - shoulda been a flagrant (but boy does he attract those!), Kyle's black eye (no comment from the announcers...), the general very physical game esp on the interior and, did anyone else notice, one of the Mia players took a cheap shot at Z up by the FT line as time expired. Just a lot of punkish behavior. Would like to see us fight back more in coming games, if only to send a message about trying to bully Duke in the future...

Good 'grit' game guys. Great to come out with a W.

Agreed with your bit on the physical play, I think at this point we just need to accept that Duke draws the worst out of teams. I think there's a perception, which may have been fair in the past, that you can knock Duke around and physically take them out of their game. This year however, we've got the grit and physicality to tough these games out (see BC, Wake, tonight).
A note on why I'm so high on Mason....early in the first half he caught the ball at the free throw line, took one dribble, and tried a half-floater that missed badly. Next time he's in the same situation, he pump-fakes, takes a power-dribble, and puts down one of the most ferocious dunks i've seen by anyone in a Duke uniform. Later in the game, there was a play where Miles flashed open for a second, and he tried to hit him with an entry pass. While it ended up being a turnover, the fact that he was trying to feed his brother and get him to be active in the game showed me the kid has it. The pieces are there, he's just starting to put them together.

(IIRC, the announcers mentioned that Kyle picked up the black eye during practice. I imagine he ran into Zoubek's beard.)

flyingdutchdevil
02-18-2010, 02:23 AM
Some needs to rough Kyle up before every single game, whether it's a bruised shin, a pulled calf, a laceration above his eye, etc...

When Kyle isn't "100%," he goes crazy. The first 5 minutes of the second half was some of the best basketball I've seen from any Duke player, and Kyle was on fire! He seems to play so much better when injured - 7-10 from 3 that one game (forgot against who), this game. Semi-injured Kyle = much better Kyle.

Saratoga2
02-18-2010, 05:12 AM
And the key, as you sort of mention, is Zoubek's work off the ball. If he does a good enough job establish proper post position and seals off his defender at an angle, he simply needs to catch a good pass, keep the ball high and finish. He essentially makes the play before he has the ball, provided the entry pass is on target. That allows Zoubek to be a threat without actually needing to make a ball with his back to the basket and the ball in his hands. That's when he gets himself into trouble with footwork, keeping the ball low, etc. This is something you've always grasped, and I think Zoubek and his teammates are getting it now, too. It's especially effective when the 4-man, whether it's Thomas, Mason or Kelly, is making that pass, because Duke's perimeter players can spread the floor, and defenders simply can't help off them to prevent Zoubek from making the catch, particularly when the pass hasn't been thrown.

In short, the fact that Zoubek is simply making himself a threat -- in addition to all the great screens he sets -- will help the three perimeter guys tremendously.

Zoubek played another excellent overall game, although he brought every ball down to waist level before going back up. He needs to keep the ball high or some teams will strip him.

When you think of it, having three seniors and two very experienced juniors on the floor gave us a big edge and we exploited it in the second half. While our subs are low in experience, having Mason and Ryan available is a boon as each do some things very well. Miles is strong and athletic and will also blossom and Andre is coming along and is a very important sub when you consider depth at position.

When we get into the tournaments, having capable subs is a must with all the minutes being played and the shorter time between games.

UrinalCake
02-18-2010, 05:23 AM
This game exemplifies why I don't believe the adage that you should stop shooting from the outside when it seems like they're just not falling. We were 9 for 15 in the second half after going 4 of 14 in the first.

Also, watching Scheyer during that stretch of in the second half gave me flashbacks of JJ, the way he moves constantly without the ball and works through numerous screens until he gets open. I thought after Nolan was knocked down by that (flagrant) screen, we deliberately got him a shot on the next two possessions so he could get his payback. Gotta love that.

flyingdutchdevil
02-18-2010, 05:42 AM
I thought after Nolan was knocked down by that (flagrant) screen, we deliberately got him a shot on the next two possessions so he could get his payback. Gotta love that.

Remember when Nolan got flattened last year by the UMD ogre and Henderson made the dunk of the year? I felt that Henderson was the only one who was really pissed off about that (and Nolan, of course. But I'm not sure he remembered it).

This time, the WHOLE team was in flames. They focused on both Singler and Scheyer after the pick, and Singler had a look that I've never seen before. It was like he was going into battle against an inferior enemy - it was absolutely terrifying. The whole team rallied behind Nolan after that. The chemistry in this team is amazing. It may be my favorite aspect of it. In the beginning of the season, Nolan and Scheyer had that chemistry. Now, all of our starters, as well as a few subs, have that chemistry. It's a thing of beauty. Absolutely amazing.

Papa John
02-18-2010, 05:46 AM
Nolan's foul was silly, but Scheyer got fouled about 3 times before that turnover under the basket with ~20 seconds left. It was ridiculous that nothing was called.

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that... The look on Scheyer's face told all--it was like, "You've got to be f---in' kidding me!"

I was engaged in getting a little one ready for bed during the beginning of the game, so by the time I sat down to watch I saw a graphic that indicated Miami had attempted 20 FTs to 5 by us at that point... I knew then that our guys were being asked to win a 5-on-8 game...

oldnavy
02-18-2010, 05:59 AM
And the key, as you sort of mention, is Zoubek's work off the ball. If he does a good enough job establish proper post position and seals off his defender at an angle, he simply needs to catch a good pass, keep the ball high and finish. He essentially makes the play before he has the ball, provided the entry pass is on target. That allows Zoubek to be a threat without actually needing to make a ball with his back to the basket and the ball in his hands. That's when he gets himself into trouble with footwork, keeping the ball low, etc. This is something you've always grasped, and I think Zoubek and his teammates are getting it now, too. It's especially effective when the 4-man, whether it's Thomas, Mason or Kelly, is making that pass, because Duke's perimeter players can spread the floor, and defenders simply can't help off them to prevent Zoubek from making the catch, particularly when the pass hasn't been thrown.

In short, the fact that Zoubek is simply making himself a threat -- in addition to all the great screens he sets -- will help the three perimeter guys tremendously.

Need to make a shout out for Z's "hands". There was one pass to the post that was zipped in there (can not remember who made it), and Z just held out his right hand and made a very unspectacular catch. The fact that it was unspectacular was spectacular. Z has VERY good hands.

Remember the Duke teams that would fall behind but you knew that they were going to make a run and come back. We haven't had that for a few years... but I think this team is well on their way to becoming like those teams of old... very nice.

Matches
02-18-2010, 07:14 AM
And regarding Hubert, in addition to his work as Andre Dawkins personal representative, he was practically drooling over Z and said that Kyle was the best SF in the country. I was wary when the game began, assuming his UNC/anti-Duke colors would shine through, but I was forced to revise my opinion, because he never showed them.

Except over the whole air-horn controversy. Does Hubert really not understand why fans aren't allowed to blow horns in the stands?

DukeAppWV
02-18-2010, 07:22 AM
" Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
I agree that Zoubs plays an increasingly big emotional role for this team. But something that I noticed tonight was that all three seniors more than once got togethewr after a big play to high-5, and had serious eye contact. It's like, "this is our last go-'round and we are NOT going let this team wilt. ....OUR team."

I was kinda surprised by some of the bullying by the Miami players. I didn't realize that rep coming in. Such as the thrown shoulder "pick" on Nolan - shoulda been a flagrant (but boy does he attract those!), Kyle's black eye (no comment from the announcers...), the general very physical game esp on the interior and, did anyone else notice, one of the Mia players took a cheap shot at Z up by the FT line as time expired. Just a lot of punkish behavior."

I have to take issue with a couple of your observations - first and foremost Miami is not a punkish team nor dirty team because their coach does not tolerate it!!!! - secondly, the screen was illegal and ruled properly (the refs reviewed the video and judged it not to be flagrant) and finally, the "incident" you mention at the end of the game was where Dwayne Collins tried to grab Zoo for a foul (he was the worst FT shooter on the floor at that point) and it was nothing more than that, even though Zoo reacted to it to draw attention ---- Miami is a well coached team and they absolutely do not allow thug-ball ----

roywhite
02-18-2010, 07:31 AM
Miami has some talent.

If Collins played as consistently well as he did last night (and seems to against Duke) he would be 1st team All-ACC.

And Durand Scott might be playing the best of any freshman in the conference.

I've heard that Brandon Knight is at least considering Miami; that would be quite a get (though for 1 year likely). Seems to me that the 'Canes can attract the talent; they really need better fan support.

Underdog5
02-18-2010, 07:44 AM
" Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
I agree that Zoubs plays an increasingly big emotional role for this team. But something that I noticed tonight was that all three seniors more than once got togethewr after a big play to high-5, and had serious eye contact. It's like, "this is our last go-'round and we are NOT going let this team wilt. ....OUR team."

I was kinda surprised by some of the bullying by the Miami players. I didn't realize that rep coming in. Such as the thrown shoulder "pick" on Nolan - shoulda been a flagrant (but boy does he attract those!), Kyle's black eye (no comment from the announcers...), the general very physical game esp on the interior and, did anyone else notice, one of the Mia players took a cheap shot at Z up by the FT line as time expired. Just a lot of punkish behavior."

I have to take issue with a couple of your observations - first and foremost Miami is not a punkish team nor dirty team because their coach does not tolerate it!!!! - secondly, the screen was illegal and ruled properly (the refs reviewed the video and judged it not to be flagrant) and finally, the "incident" you mention at the end of the game was where Dwayne Collins tried to grab Zoo for a foul (he was the worst FT shooter on the floor at that point) and it was nothing more than that, even though Zoo reacted to it to draw attention ---- Miami is a well coached team and they absolutely do not allow thug-ball ----

Also thought I heard them mention that Kyle's shiner was from practice?

Anyway, thought this was a gutty win against a team that came out inspired and hungry. Love our teams resolve and grit. Especially love that Z is REALLY coming around. I even like the mistakes he's making now as they are mostly from aggressively trying to make good plays.

bluepenguin
02-18-2010, 07:48 AM
Davis doesn't bother me too much. He's a homer, but not too bad. It's Patrick I can't stand anymore. He gets really excited when any team does well against Duke. Anytime Duke does well he is less than enthusiastic. He does give Duke props, it's just his noticeable lack of the same enthusiasm he uses to give Duke's opponent's props. Anyone know where he went to school?

bluepenguin
02-18-2010, 07:49 AM
He and Mike Patrick both were emphatic about the flagrant screen on Nolan.
While they both agreed it should have been a flagrant foul, neither one was very emphatic. For emphatic, see: Patrick during first half when Miami was doing well.

tbyers11
02-18-2010, 08:01 AM
It always does. We always struggle with UM (not Maryland) and I think it is a direct response to the zone. When they zone with 3 out and 2 in they are daring us to beat them inside and ... what do you know - Zoub has a great game and the shooters struggle.

Please explain to me why they left this zone at the start of the second half? What was Haith thinking? Duke makes a great run and I am impressed with tenacity and a road win BUT I want to feel like we can handle that zone. I don't. I feel like Miami let us off the hook by going man-to-man for some reason I'll never understand.

We never do play well against that durn zone. Maybe we just don't see it enough (basically Miami is the only one that runs that D much)

Did anyone else see it the way I did- that Miami went away from the D that was giving us fits?

In the first half it seemed that Miami only played zone defense after they scored or after a deadball, but played man-to-man after a missed shot or a turnover. This is rather common because it is hard to set up a zone properly if you are picking up players in transition defense.

At the start of the second half, they played man alot because we were turning them over nearly every trip and they couldn't get the zone defense set. A couple of times they did play it our zone offense got some pretty good looks. I am guessing that Haith thought we were starting to figure out how to attack it properly and switched to man. I am surprised that he didn't come back to zone at all the last 12 minutes though. As badly as we played against in the first half, you think it might confuse us a trip or two.

sdotbarbee
02-18-2010, 08:12 AM
What is it with teams who are poor free throw shooting teams having outstanding days against us? Georgia tech, Georgetown, NCSU, and now Miami, Dwayne Collins is a 53% FT shooter and he hit 11 of 14. I guess we just bring out the best in teams. I would also like to see our guys stand up for each other when we try to get bullied. I don't want there to be punches thrown or anything like that but at least get in someones face on cheapshots like on Nolan last night and against Jon when he was pushed down by Glenn Rice Jr. Can't complain too much about a good conference road win though.

cruxer
02-18-2010, 08:23 AM
Except over the whole air-horn controversy. Does Hubert really not understand why fans aren't allowed to blow horns in the stands?

I thought Hubert was playfully homerish, which I actually like. His comment was, "Seriously, that horn bothers your free throw? You play in Cameron!" It seemed like a good-natured ribbing to me. I like the fact that, while remaining professional, he took a little opportunity to remind that he does favor the baby blue. It would, of course, have been better had Patrick taken that opportunity to remind him of RoydRage's reaction to a "hostile" fan earlier in the year!

As someone else did earlier, I contrast Hubert's good-natured, yet professional ribbing to the completely unhinged, unabashed Duke (and UNC) hate we get when Elmore calls a game. That's not enjoyable at all.

-c

Jumbo
02-18-2010, 08:42 AM
Davis doesn't bother me too much. He's a homer, but not too bad. It's Patrick I can't stand anymore. He gets really excited when any team does well against Duke. Anytime Duke does well he is less than enthusiastic. He does give Duke props, it's just his noticeable lack of the same enthusiasm he uses to give Duke's opponent's props. Anyone know where he went to school?

I don't see that at all from Patrick. What's sad about Patrick is that he's just getting old and making lots of mistakes. He doesn't know what's going on half the time -- whether a shot was a 2 or a 3, how long someone has been in the game, etc. At one point he declared this was the deepest Duke team in about a dozen years. It's more sad than anything else.

moonpie23
02-18-2010, 08:46 AM
ok, i will take off my dark blue glasses and say that hubert wasn't (isn't) that bad......first off, he definitely knows the game....i just hate when the baby blue peeks thru..

would be fun to have hubert and jason williams do the unc/duke series together....... :)

mike patrick was a good commentator, he's starting to struggle with some memory things now...

jgehtland
02-18-2010, 08:46 AM
I think this was brought up in another thread, but the continued refrains of "that team was thuggish" and "teams always try to play us physical" are starting to sound a lot like "all my girlfriends turn out to be crazy". At some point, you have to start believing that maybe its you.

I'm not saying we are an overtly physical team, or that we play dirty. I AM saying that our style probably invites these kinds of games. And, in fact, in most years, it is to our advantage because a) we'll shoot more free throws as a result and b) it starts to frustrate the opponent. This year, we happen to be committing a lot of unnecessary fouls down low which is negating the free throw advantage. But let's examine the logic of the continued claim that people are consciously trying to beat us up (which I've been hearing since at least JJ's time):

1) team's know that the book on Duke is to play physical
2) we are the winningest team in the country over the last ten years
3) therefore, keep doing what isn't working

It doesn't make sense. To me, it makes a lot more sense that we play a style that ends up (at least partially) creating these types of games. And we should relish that. We win most of them.

House G
02-18-2010, 08:47 AM
Miami has some talent.

If Collins played as consistently well as he did last night (and seems to against Duke) he would be 1st team All-ACC.

And Durand Scott might be playing the best of any freshman in the conference.

I've heard that Brandon Knight is at least considering Miami; that would be quite a get (though for 1 year likely). Seems to me that the 'Canes can attract the talent; they really need better fan support.
This game reminded me in some regard of the Duke-Miami football game this year. Duke's wannabe football team led the 'canes at halftime before getting run over in the fourth quarter. I have always thought that some schools are "football schools" and some are "basketball schools" but it is not very often that schools consistently field good teams in both sports.

roywhite
02-18-2010, 08:51 AM
In the first half it seemed that Miami only played zone defense after they scored or after a deadball, but played man-to-man after a missed shot or a turnover. This is rather common because it is hard to set up a zone properly if you are picking up players in transition defense.

At the start of the second half, they played man alot because we were turning them over nearly every trip and they couldn't get the zone defense set. A couple of times they did play it our zone offense got some pretty good looks. I am guessing that Haith thought we were starting to figure out how to attack it properly and switched to man. I am surprised that he didn't come back to zone at all the last 12 minutes though. As badly as we played against in the first half, you think it might confuse us a trip or two.

In his postgame chat with Bob Harris, Coach K said that in the second half Duke went to a "hit and cut" offense to work against their zone. I've not heard the term previously...it seemed to involve more movement away from the ball and players crossing from one side of the court to the other. Whatever the scheme was, the execution was good and it seemed to produce good shots, many of which went down.

Just have to reflect on the ball movement we see when the three S's are clicking, as they were in the second half. Very impressive, and there aren't many teams in the country that can duplicate it, or defend it.

YourLandlord
02-18-2010, 08:54 AM
ok, i will take off my dark blue glasses and say that hubert wasn't (isn't) that bad......first off, he definitely knows the game....i just hate when the baby blue peeks thru..

would be fun to have hubert and jason williams do the unc/duke series together....... :)

mike patrick was a good commentator, he's starting to struggle with some memory things now...

Are you kidding? When that chick had the sign upside down, patrick made some crack about maybe she wanted to get married in australia.

yes, a super stupid "joke"

Hubert thought it was the funniest thing he had heard in his life and couldn't stop giggling -- that is, after about 5 seconds when he realized the joke. He sounded like a 7 year old.

greybeard
02-18-2010, 08:56 AM
" first and foremost Miami is not a punkish team nor dirty team because their coach does not tolerate it!!!! -

Bull!

jaytoc
02-18-2010, 09:08 AM
Grey-

Without regard to the substance of your post, it does represent a marked departure from your usual practice. Congratulations!:)

airowe
02-18-2010, 09:12 AM
Regarding the conch, the reason Coach was so upset about it was because it sounded like the substitution horn.

Jon was noticeably rattled as he missed that first shot.

greybeard
02-18-2010, 09:13 AM
And the key, as you sort of mention, is Zoubek's work off the ball. If he does a good enough job establish proper post position and seals off his defender at an angle, he simply needs to catch a good pass, keep the ball high and finish. He essentially makes the play before he has the ball, provided the entry pass is on target. That allows Zoubek to be a threat without actually needing to make a ball with his back to the basket and the ball in his hands. That's when he gets himself into trouble with footwork, keeping the ball low, etc. This is something you've always grasped, and I think Zoubek and his teammates are getting it now, too. It's especially effective when the 4-man, whether it's Thomas, Mason or Kelly, is making that pass, because Duke's perimeter players can spread the floor, and defenders simply can't help off them to prevent Zoubek from making the catch, particularly when the pass hasn't been thrown.

In short, the fact that Zoubek is simply making himself a threat -- in addition to all the great screens he sets -- will help the three perimeter guys tremendously.

Let me be clearer. I think that Z and his teammates are cultivating his ability to see and create a passing angle so he catches it inside the defense and that that is terrific. I also see the same thing beginning to happen when the catch is not so behind the defender, what one might call a back-to-the basket catch. He works off the same principle, which is that the ball needs to be thrown where he feels he has the advantage and does; if a defenders weight is on his left foot and he is pressing Z there, if Z is outside the left foot and the ball goes there the defender is dead--needs to shift his weight right before he can move left. If in the same scenerio, Z is inside the defenders left foot and his right is outside the defenders, and Z has his weight on his left foot, a lead pass to the right and slightly towards the basket creates advantage.

This is back to the basket play that does not involve "sealing the defender" as some here use that term, and as Duke's littles aparently conceive the only safe time to pass it inside, which they have decided is pointless because Z does not operate well with a catch and a guy sitting on him. I am in favor of more plays by Z with his back to the basket off advantage passing that ask more of him on the catch but make scoring easier. The shot is only a tad more difficult than the layup that he gets when he is inside the defender, well, maybe a tad more than a tad, but well within Z's wheelhouse.

Throwing it into him in sealed situations, and he does seal well, just has difficulty with being pushed from low on those, is a very valuable component. When the ball penetrates the defense the defense MUST react, which creates more space and timing advantage for the outside players assuming the ball comes right back out. Z can throw it right back out. I think that when he gets an appropriate number of touches, it will be clearer to him sooner which are not "go" catches. He might even surprise some people with a seal and spin game, but that is another matter.

So, my previous post assumed that everyone is now convinced that if you follow Z's lead, or at least are in tune with him, when an inside-the defense reception is available if you trust Z's lead and ability to get where the ball needs to be. I was pointing out that the inside game rounds out if the team makes use of what I call advantage catches when Z will be outside the defender but with a step as described above. If they do that, the pressure to guard the high low game if you can becomes something that personally I enjoy watching. There was a time, my friends, when it was oh so not just watching.

allenmurray
02-18-2010, 09:18 AM
This game reminded me in some regard of the Duke-Miami football game this year. Duke's wannabe football team led the 'canes at halftime before getting run over in the fourth quarter. I have always thought that some schools are "football schools" and some are "basketball schools" but it is not very often that schools consistently field good teams in both sports.

I'm sure the 80 student athletes who bust their butts at practice for months at a time really appreciate your remark. :mad:

House G
02-18-2010, 09:23 AM
I'm sure the 80 student athletes who bust their butts at practice for months at a time really appreciate your remark. :mad:
--Didn't mean to imply anything derogatory about out football team. I'm was very pleased with their season and would love for them to become more of a force in the ACC and nationally.

theAlaskanBear
02-18-2010, 09:24 AM
First of all, I LOVE how Duke gutted out that win. At halftime, with Duke down, I felt this would be a comeback game.

I felt the reffing in the first half was consistent, in that it consistently favored Miami. I didnt have too many complaints in the second half, I thought the refs called it more fairly.

However, that shoulder on Nolan by Miami was as intentional and flagrant as they come. I dont blame the refs, because I wasnt sure at first, but ESPN had a camera angle they showed once or twice with the screener deliberately throwing his shoulder into Nolan.

Also, I thought Nolan was the reason we won this game, as he seemed to respond and score big buckets when we needed to halt Miami's momentum.
Scheyer also hit those dagger threes with time winding down, which he has now done in 3 or 4 games, despite a poor shooting night.

We had less than perfect execution against the press, which we need to to tighten up.

And of course: Its awesome to see Zoubs playing with intensity and confidence. Collins was way too mobile for Zoub to guard on his own, but he controlled his fouls, and contributed to the offense!

Oh, and that Durand Scott kid is MONEY. I do not want to face Miami in 2 years.

allenmurray
02-18-2010, 09:29 AM
--Didn't mean to imply anything derogatory about out football team. I'm was very pleased with their season and would love for them to become more of a force in the ACC and nationally.

I'll take you at your word - just know that there are a bunch of us who post here on this basketball board who attend every Duke football game as well, and have for years. We're not basketball fans, we're Duke fans. This football team has worked harder over the last two years than folks who don't follow Duke football can even imagine. Hearing them referred to as a team of wannabes does not sit well.

House G
02-18-2010, 09:53 AM
I think this was brought up in another thread, but the continued refrains of "that team was thuggish" and "teams always try to play us physical" are starting to sound a lot like "all my girlfriends turn out to be crazy". At some point, you have to start believing that maybe its you.

I'm not saying we are an overtly physical team, or that we play dirty. I AM saying that our style probably invites these kinds of games. And, in fact, in most years, it is to our advantage because a) we'll shoot more free throws as a result and b) it starts to frustrate the opponent. This year, we happen to be committing a lot of unnecessary fouls down low which is negating the free throw advantage. But let's examine the logic of the continued claim that people are consciously trying to beat us up (which I've been hearing since at least JJ's time):

1) team's know that the book on Duke is to play physical
2) we are the winningest team in the country over the last ten years
3) therefore, keep doing what isn't working

It doesn't make sense. To me, it makes a lot more sense that we play a style that ends up (at least partially) creating these types of games. And we should relish that. We win most of them.
It is interesting that perception is not always reality. When a bunch of my friends and I went to CIS for the Duke-LSU game in 1991 (Shaq 1), a buddy of mine who is a huge LSU fan told me that he was pretty sure he could guard Hurley and McCaffrey because (on TV) they looked like scrawny little "anemic-looking" (his words) kids and he would just rough them up with hard, physical play. When my friend was courtside prior to the game, McCaffrey came out to shoot. He was listed as 6'3". After the game, my buddy said he couldn't believe how much taller he was in person--I think he changed his mind about being able to guard him! My point is that many of Duke's players have the sort of body habitus that perhaps might lead opposing teams to think they can beat us with physical play. Some are successful, most aren't. I'm guessing a lot of them are surprised by the height and athleticism of guys like Scheyer, Singler, LT. It also doesn't hurt to have a bunch of trees down low :D.

mkirsh
02-18-2010, 09:55 AM
Something I noticed in a few possessions towards the end of the game last night was Duke running sets where Singler had the ball in his hands with both Smth and Scheyer working off the ball running through the baseline-option screens. Don't think we've seen this before, but it is an interesting late season wrinkle thrown in by Coach K. I think it really contributed to both Nolan's and Scheyer's open 3's late as the guys guarding them weren't used to chasing through so many screens and got lost a bit.

superdave
02-18-2010, 10:01 AM
Anyone else feel like Duke grew some collective hair on their collective chest last night? This game has to build confidence - on the road, recovered from a poor-shooting first half, Defense led the way, Singler carrying a big load, hit our big buckets, made the right adjustments to counter their zone.

Our bigs put up 20 and 13, collectively of course...

MChambers
02-18-2010, 10:02 AM
I don't see that at all from Patrick. What's sad about Patrick is that he's just getting old and making lots of mistakes. He doesn't know what's going on half the time -- whether a shot was a 2 or a 3, how long someone has been in the game, etc. At one point he declared this was the deepest Duke team in about a dozen years. It's more sad than anything else.

When I was in high school in Jacksonville, FL (a long time ago), Mike Patrick was the sports anchor on one of the local stations. He was the best of the local anchors. When I first saw him on ACC broadcasts (not sure when he started that, but I moved to Washington, DC, in 1984), it was very disorienting to see him doing Duke games. I always thought he was fair and good. Now, however, he's a bit like Verne Lundquist, seems to miss a fair amount. It's sad.

Sure, he might seem excited when Miami is beating Duke. Almost any announcer would, because it would be an upset. Doesn't mean he's anti-Duke.

DukeUsul
02-18-2010, 10:12 AM
I have to disagree with those who are saying the illegal screen on Nolan was clearly flagrant. I just don't can't agree. It was neither severe, excessive nor comabtive. It was a bang bang play with a big guy giving a smaller guy the shoulder. Rightly called a personal foul. But not the kind of play someone needs to be ejected over.

roywhite
02-18-2010, 10:16 AM
I have to disagree with those who are saying the illegal screen on Nolan was clearly flagrant. I just don't can't agree. It was neither severe, excessive nor comabtive. It was a bang bang play with a big guy giving a smaller guy the shoulder. Rightly called a personal foul. But not the kind of play someone needs to be ejected over.

Well, your point of view carried the day with the officials.

The announcers (and I) thought it was excessive...not to the extent of ejection, but should have resulted in penalty foul shots and maintain possession.

Though the call was not changed, I'm glad to see officials go to the replay monitor in these situations.

DukeUsul
02-18-2010, 10:22 AM
Here's the horn rule from the NCAA rulebook:


Art. 9 Team followers, as in Rule 4-27, shall not commit an unsportsmanlike act, including, but not limited to, the following:
a. Using musical instruments, amplified music or artificial noisemakers while the game is in progress, except timeouts and intermission.

Now would a conch shell be considered a natural noisemaker?

House G
02-18-2010, 10:26 AM
I'll take you at your word - just know that there are a bunch of us who post here on this basketball board who attend every Duke football game as well, and have for years. We're not basketball fans, we're Duke fans. This football team has worked harder over the last two years than folks who don't follow Duke football can even imagine. Hearing them referred to as a team of wannabes does not sit well.
My dictionary defines "wannabe" as "someone who aspires, often vainly, to emulate someones else's success or attain eminence in some area". You may feel this word has a negative connotation, but that was not my intent. And FWIW, I went to every home game at Wallace Wade in my four years at Duke and would probably go to every game now if I did not live 1,000 miles away.

DukeUsul
02-18-2010, 10:27 AM
Well, your point of view carried the day with the officials.

The announcers (and I) thought it was excessive...not to the extent of ejection, but should have resulted in penalty foul shots and maintain possession.

Though the call was not changed, I'm glad to see officials go to the replay monitor in these situations.

The problem is that a flagrant foul call requires ejection:


EJECTION (Section 3): A single flagrant foul or a second technical foul
charged to a player/substitute shall result in ejection.

Sooo..... if it's not bad enough to eject the guy, what should it have been called? Would you have called it an intentional personal foul under the "excessive contact" clause? Was it really more excessive than what we see all the time?

cruxer
02-18-2010, 10:31 AM
I have to disagree with those who are saying the illegal screen on Nolan was clearly flagrant. I just don't can't agree. It was neither severe, excessive nor comabtive. It was a bang bang play with a big guy giving a smaller guy the shoulder. Rightly called a personal foul. But not the kind of play someone needs to be ejected over.

I agree. On watching the replays along with the officials, I knew they wouldn't call it intentional. He leaned into the screen, which is clearly a foul, but kept his hands and elbows in. No way to glean flagrant intent from his actions. Now if I'm a mind reader, on the other hand......

-c

roywhite
02-18-2010, 10:35 AM
The problem is that a flagrant foul call requires ejection:

Sooo..... if it's not bad enough to eject the guy, what should it have been called? Would you have called it an intentional personal foul under the "excessive contact" clause? Was it really more excessive than what we see all the time?

Yes, I thought it was excessive.

And it appears your dwelling on this is becoming excessive.

Olympic Fan
02-18-2010, 10:53 AM
Count me among those who had no problem with Hubert last night. Yeah, he went on a little too much about Dawkins needing more minutes, but that's tame stuff compared to Elmore's vile rants or all those years of Billy Packer nitpicking the officials.

I enjoyed his humor -- and it was occassionally self-deprecating. My favorite was the exhange with Patrick after the camera focused on the babe with the upside down sign:

Patrick: That would never happen in Chapel Hill, would it Hubert?

Hubert: Well, maybe this year it would!

I was LOL at that one. I also heard an exchange on one of the Sportscenter updates when one of the anchors said: "You'd think a Dukie would know better" and his partner answered, "Just because you wear a Duke jersey doesn't mean you went to Duke."

Good stuff

Kedsy
02-18-2010, 11:04 AM
What is it with teams who are poor free throw shooting teams having outstanding days against us? Georgia tech, Georgetown, NCSU, and now Miami, Dwayne Collins is a 53% FT shooter and he hit 11 of 14. I guess we just bring out the best in teams.

Bad free throw defense. Maybe K needs to work on it in practice. Our free throw defense is much better at home, which probably explains our dominance in Cameron.

YourLandlord
02-18-2010, 11:05 AM
I was LOL at that one. I also heard an exchange on one of the Sportscenter updates when one of the anchors said: "You'd think a Dukie would know better" and his partner answered, "Just because you wear a Duke jersey doesn't mean you went to Duke."
Yeah, I'm pretty certain that girl did not go to Duke.

GoingFor#5
02-18-2010, 11:08 AM
Except over the whole air-horn controversy. Does Hubert really not understand why fans aren't allowed to blow horns in the stands?

The other beef I had which I just remembered this morning is when Hubert was talking about Coach K scheduling Tulsa so late in the season. He said it was "strange" and he went on about it. I was waiting for one of them to point out that it's a pretty smart move to play a mid-major possible 2nd round foe late in the season, but neither of them did. That along with the horn thing made me think maybe Hubert had a small axe to grind with K.

Gewebe14
02-18-2010, 11:08 AM
Yeah, I'm pretty certain that girl did not go to Duke.

How could you possibly know that?

YourLandlord
02-18-2010, 11:13 AM
How could you possibly know that?
I'm making a judgment call. It's a message board, it's what we do. But I'm pretty sure I'm right.

hq2
02-18-2010, 11:27 AM
A few points.

1. Another great game by Zoubs. The steals, especially during the second half rally,were big, and show good positioning on defense. Also, his passing has improved to the point where I think he needs more touches on offense; he has shown an improved ability to find cutters and open shooters.

2. Lance and MP1 seem to have disappeared on offense lately. Lance is committing fouls and getting too far under to get good shots, and MP1 isn't doing much of anything. We need for both of them to give quality minutes, because Zoubs and MP2 are usually not good for more than 20 minutes each.

3. This Duke team appears to be improving down the stretch. That's big, because in recent years, we've tended to peak in January and start falling apart near March. With Zoubs, MP2, and Singler all playing much better than earlier, and Andre finally getting back into the rotation, we're rounding into form just in time for the NCAAs. We should clearly be legit in the tournament this year.

DukieInBrasil
02-18-2010, 11:29 AM
Knolon Shmingler totally dominated this game in any way that statistics can measure, and we won. Before the game, I opined that if our big men could approach the productivity of our win vs. MD, we would win easily. So how'd that go?
This time out the pairs of LT/Z and MP I&II gave us 20pts, 11rebs, 3 assists, 7(!!!) steals and 1 block. That's a pretty nice stat line, but not as dominant as the previous game. And in fact, we did not win as easily either.
Either way, I like what the big boys did for the team. They played solid basketball and helped us grind out a tough road win.

Jeff Frosh
02-18-2010, 11:40 AM
I was at the game and thought I would pass along a few thoughts:

1. BankUnited Center is a pretty good place to watch a game, as long as you are not a Miami student. They are relegated to behind one basket (all the way to the top of the arena). Toward the end of the game, a Miami student came over and sat near me (midcourt, row 9), and she said: Wow, you can actually see the game from here. Not much energy. A lot of empty seats. Didn't feel like an ACC game atmosphere. Many Duke fans were there.

2. Halftime jersey retirement ceremony was pretty weak. It felt contrived, where they decided to retire two guys' jerseys who played 30 and 40 years ago to try to generate some fake emotion for the Duke game.

3. It felt like the Miami fans around me were expecting a collapse. Ragging on Haith and the players. Surprising since it was only their second home loss.

4. Officiating was terrrible. The no call on the mugging of Kyle (and subseqent foul call on him) and then the charge on Lance were horrible, and kept Miami in the game when we were on the verge of blowing it open.

5. Coach K and the assistants seemed very satisfied at how we responded in the second half after the ugly first half.

6. This may seem weird, but it seemed like Miami was not ready to play the second half. We came out with about 7 minutes left of halftime to warm up. Miami came out with less than 2 minutes left of halftime, ran a layup line for what was left of halftime, and didn't even have time to take any warmup shots. Very strange.

All in all, a very fun and satisfying time, although of course I was not feeling too good until the first media timeout of the second half.

Kedsy
02-18-2010, 11:44 AM
2. Lance and MP1 seem to have disappeared on offense lately. Lance is committing fouls and getting too far under to get good shots, and MP1 isn't doing much of anything. We need for both of them to give quality minutes, because Zoubs and MP2 are usually not good for more than 20 minutes each.

You are selling Lance short. His contributions cannot be measured by his offensive output. Did you see Jumbo's plus/minus stats for the Miami game? Lance played 26 minutes and we outscored Miami by 19 during his time. If those weren't "quality minutes," we need a new definition.

Jeff Frosh
02-18-2010, 11:48 AM
It was the first time I have seen Jon play in person, and I was surprised at how much sidespin he has on his outside shot. The ball was rotating almost completely sideways. Not sure if this is normal for him or if it could be a reason why his shot was off for most of the game.

Kedsy
02-18-2010, 11:53 AM
It was the first time I have seen Jon play in person, and I was surprised at how much sidespin he has on his outside shot. The ball was rotating almost completely sideways. Not sure if this is normal for him or if it could be a reason why his shot was off for most of the game.

As far as I can tell, his shot has always had that sidespin. I assume that's why he sometimes goes into extended shooting slumps.

roywhite
02-18-2010, 12:40 PM
As far as I can tell, his shot has always had that sidespin. I assume that's why he sometimes goes into extended shooting slumps.

Saw a mention somewhere from Coach K that Jon has had a sore back for a little while now (week or two?). Even when his outside shot is not falling, he's usually very reliable on the 10-footers and in off drives; they weren't going in last night.

Jon also doesn't seem to get many foul calls when he gets hit...that may be a perception from the refs that he's over-reacted a bit in the past.

At any rate, for a guy that didn't shoot well, he hit 2 huge 3-pointers.

hq2
02-18-2010, 01:24 PM
You are selling Lance short. His contributions cannot be measured by his offensive output. Did you see Jumbo's plus/minus stats for the Miami game? Lance played 26 minutes and we outscored Miami by 19 during his time. If those weren't "quality minutes," we need a new definition.

Reply:

Yes, Lance has played good defense, and that's been appreciated. He will continue to get lots of minutes for precisely that reason, as he is our only quick defensive front court player. Nonetheless, our low post offense has been inconsistent all year, and Lance has not contributed much to that recently.
We need about 20-25 points per game from the front four (Lance, Zoubs and the MPs), so Lance needs to get us maybe 5 or 6 points a game. He hasn't done that recently

94duke
02-18-2010, 01:47 PM
Well, over the last 5 games:

Ga Tech
Lance - 6, Z - 5, MP1 - 2, MP2 - 5
Total: 18

BC
Lance - 6, Z - 3, MP1 - 0, MP2 - 1
Total 10

UNC
Lance - 2, Z - 0, MP1 - 2, MP2 - 7
Total 11

MD
Lance - 4, Z - 16, MP1 - 2, MP2 - 7
Total 29

Miami
Lance - 4, Z - 10, MP1 - 2, MP2 - 4
Total 20

Avg
Lance - 4.4, Z - 6.8, MP1 - 1.6, MP2 - 4.8
Total 17.6

So, it looks like Lance is doing his part recently (4.4 ppg).
Miles is the one who hasn't been scoring so much (1.6 ppg).

I also submit that the 17.6 ppg that our bigs have averaged recently is pretty good. Sure 20 - 25 would be better, but we have gotten 23.5 % of our points from our bigs over the last 5 games. (17.6 bigs ppg / 74.8 team ppg)

Kedsy
02-18-2010, 01:48 PM
Reply:

Yes, Lance has played good defense, and that's been appreciated. He will continue to get lots of minutes for precisely that reason, as he is our only quick defensive front court player. Nonetheless, our low post offense has been inconsistent all year, and Lance has not contributed much to that recently.
We need about 20-25 points per game from the front four (Lance, Zoubs and the MPs), so Lance needs to get us maybe 5 or 6 points a game. He hasn't done that recently

Well, in our last 5 games, our bigs have averaged just under 19 ppg (although I'm including Ryan's 1.2 ppg in this total). Lance has averaged 4.4 (and that includes the UNC game where he only played 20 minutes due to injury and the Maryland game where he was noticeably limping). So, based on your "requirements," if Lance got 1 more point per game, you'd be happy? But since he hasn't his minutes aren't "quality minutes"? Personally, I've been thrilled with Lance's production and productivity.


Edit: Looks like 94Duke beat me to the punch. If you add Ryan's 1.2 ppg, the numbers look even closer to the "requirements."

Olympic Fan
02-18-2010, 01:51 PM
Reply:

Yes, Lance has played good defense, and that's been appreciated. He will continue to get lots of minutes for precisely that reason, as he is our only quick defensive front court player. Nonetheless, our low post offense has been inconsistent all year, and Lance has not contributed much to that recently.
We need about 20-25 points per game from the front four (Lance, Zoubs and the MPs), so Lance needs to get us maybe 5 or 6 points a game. He hasn't done that recently

Not sure what you mean by "recently" -- in the six games before Lance was injured against UNC, he contributed those "maybe 5 or 6 points a game" that you asked for. That includes 13 points, seven rebounds at Clemson and 6 and 11 against Georgia Tech.

Now, the last two games have both been 4-point, 3-rebound efforts, but you think the fact that he's courageously playing through an injury that K described as "definitely serious" had something to do with that?

You want 5 points a game from Lance and, playing with an injury, he only gives you four points (plus some huge defense) ... and you're upset?

Jeez ...

BD80
02-18-2010, 01:52 PM
Lance will be a big contributor in the tournament if teams try to throw a zone against us or try to trap us.

Lance is a steady ball handler and makes good, quick decisions. He is also the only reliable big man shooting from around the foul line, a key spot in attacking zones. If we play Syracuse he would be really important.

I like seeing the MPs and Kelly playing now, and hopefully letting Lance heal.

oldnavy
02-18-2010, 02:20 PM
I don't see that at all from Patrick. What's sad about Patrick is that he's just getting old and making lots of mistakes. He doesn't know what's going on half the time -- whether a shot was a 2 or a 3, how long someone has been in the game, etc. At one point he declared this was the deepest Duke team in about a dozen years. It's more sad than anything else.

I had mentioned this in the post on the announcers earlier. He made a comment about how he was having difficulty in pronouncing rivalry now, and I was wondering if he had suffered a minor stroke or something.

oldnavy
02-18-2010, 02:23 PM
Lance will be a big contributor in the tournament if teams try to throw a zone against us or try to trap us.

Lance is a steady ball handler and makes good, quick decisions. He is also the only reliable big man shooting from around the foul line, a key spot in attacking zones. If we play Syracuse he would be really important.

I like seeing the MPs and Kelly playing now, and hopefully letting Lance heal.

I think that both Ryan and Mason can or could knock down the 13-15 footer. Lance has shown that he can, but both Ryan and Mason seem to have a very smooth stroke and could probably hit it more often than not.

Bob Green
02-18-2010, 02:28 PM
Anyone know where he went to school?

George Washington University.

DukeAppWV
02-18-2010, 02:49 PM
Bull!

I have been a Duke basketball fan for 45 years and I have seen many a team try to bug, thug and mug the Devils - Miami is not one of those teams - I have a lot of respect for Frank Haith and unless you can show me a pattern of this kind of play by the Canes then I will write you off as just a typical complainer
----

DukeUsul
02-18-2010, 02:59 PM
I had mentioned this in the post on the announcers earlier. He made a comment about how he was having difficulty in pronouncing rivalry now, and I was wondering if he had suffered a minor stroke or something.

The funny thing is.... the night before that game during "wivaly week" I watched the Duke-UNC 1998 game on ESPN Classic with Mike Patrick doing the call.... and he made the exact same "joke!"

DukeUsul
02-18-2010, 03:00 PM
I have been a Duke basketball fan for 45 years and I have seen many a team try to bug, thug and mug the Devils - Miami is not one of those teams - I have a lot of respect for Frank Haith and unless you can show me a pattern of this kind of play by the Canes then I will write you off as just a typical complainer
----

I agree. There wasn't any thuggery last night.

oldnavy
02-18-2010, 03:14 PM
Saw a mention somewhere from Coach K that Jon has had a sore back for a little while now (week or two?). Even when his outside shot is not falling, he's usually very reliable on the 10-footers and in off drives; they weren't going in last night.

Jon also doesn't seem to get many foul calls when he gets hit...that may be a perception from the refs that he's over-reacted a bit in the past.

At any rate, for a guy that didn't shoot well, he hit 2 huge 3-pointers.

Amen. Didn't you just know that he was going to come through when hit pulled up. He is money.

lmb
02-18-2010, 03:18 PM
As I said in the MOTM thread -

I never thought in my life I would hear this statement:

"It will be interesting to see how the Duke team will react with Brian Zoubek on the bench."

Whatever happens in March happens. But I love this team!!

Kedsy
02-18-2010, 03:21 PM
As I said in the MOTM thread -

I never thought in my life I would hear this statement:

"It will be interesting to see how the Duke team will react with Brian Zoubek on the bench."


I was thinking the exact same thing when he said that. My, my, how quickly things change.

Kedsy
02-18-2010, 03:24 PM
Jon also doesn't seem to get many foul calls when he gets hit...that may be a perception from the refs that he's over-reacted a bit in the past.

I totally agree with this, especially last night when he seemed to get smacked two or three times every time he ventured into the lane. He used to get a lot of calls but at some point I think the refs decided he was acting and now he gets nothing.

Devil07
02-18-2010, 03:36 PM
I totally agree with this, especially last night when he seemed to get smacked two or three times every time he ventured into the lane. He used to get a lot of calls but at some point I think the refs decided he was acting and now he gets nothing.

I've been feeling the same way. I think perception has a lot to do with how these games are called - especially in conference play where the same referees are seeing Duke multiple times. However, I think what's been equally interesting is the way in which ref attitudes seem to be changing with Zoubek. Now part of this is his improved footwork helping him avoid some of those lurching fouls he used to get, but it does seem as though he's finally starting to get a little benefit of the doubt where he didn't before. In fact, I'd say a large reason for his recent rise to prominence has been his ability to simply stay on the floor (he's been playing well all year in my book but just couldn't stay out of foul trouble). It seemed like before the refs were simply expecting Zoubek to commit a foul and so when they saw any possible contact they blew the whistle. One of the side benefits to his recent strong play is that he's finally getting noticed and so hopefully he can continue to shed his walking foul reputation in refs' eyes.

Lord Ash
02-18-2010, 03:54 PM
Coach K gets a horn thrown out of a game on the road but let's the fan stay and watch the game. That one ups ole roy any day of the week. Go Duke!

I thought it was clear also that the conch sounded very much like the substitution horn, which was a major reason they removed it.

greybeard
02-18-2010, 04:10 PM
Grey-

Without regard to the substance of your post, it does represent a marked departure from your usual practice. Congratulations!:)

duly noted. :o

Jumbo
02-18-2010, 04:54 PM
A few points.


2. Lance and MP1 seem to have disappeared on offense lately. Lance is committing fouls and getting too far under to get good shots, and MP1 isn't doing much of anything. We need for both of them to give quality minutes, because Zoubs and MP2 are usually not good for more than 20 minutes each.

Perhaps this is a good time to mention that a week ago, we feared Lance would be out for the season. Five days ago, we thought he'd miss a couple of weeks. Then he shocked everyone and suited up against Maryland, but that doesn't mean the severe bone bruise has gone away, and obviously it has to be affecting him.

oldnavy
02-18-2010, 05:00 PM
Here's the horn rule from the NCAA rulebook:

Now would a conch shell be considered a natural noisemaker?

Dean Smith used to get the same sound from blowing his nose during opponents foul shots. It was a major irritant for the rest of the ACC teams, and resulted in the new rule about amplified noise. Look it up!

OldPhiKap
02-18-2010, 05:04 PM
I thought it was clear also that the conch sounded very much like the substitution horn, which was a major reason they removed it.

BINGO. Tnat's exactly what I thought K said to the ref -- that it sounded like the horn.

(At least, that was what it sounded like to me when it happened).

billy
02-18-2010, 05:08 PM
Hubert thought it was the funniest thing he had heard in his life and couldn't stop giggling -- that is, after about 5 seconds when he realized the joke. He sounded like a 7 year old.

Knowing Hubert outside of his broadcasting, his response to the "joke" is how he pretty much always laughs.