Question about Refs/Rules

[Misunderestimated]

This is probably a stupid question...I've played a million hours of pick-up ball, but never a referee'd game....When the guard is bringing the ball past half court and stops right past mid-court to set up a play, the ref usually extends his arms out (like he's telling a story about the size of a fish he caught) - what does this signal to the players?

Also, what is a ball-handler not doing when the ref blows the whistle for the 5-second call?

[Richard Berg]

Arms out = the offensive player is spaced far enough from his defender that the 5-second count is not in play. Watch the same ref as the opponent guard bodies up -- he'll start ticking seconds with his wrist.

Details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-second_rule_(basketball)

[DevilWolf]

This is probably a stupid question...I've played a million hours of pick-up ball, but never a referee'd game....When the guard is bringing the ball past half court and stops right past mid-court to set up a play, the ref usually extends his arms out (like he's telling a story about the size of a fish he caught) - what does this signal to the players?

Also, what is a ball-handler not doing when the ref blows the whistle for the 5-second call?

The arms signal that the ball handler is outside of the "closely guarded" range. The 5-second call is when a ball handler is dribbling or stationary for 5 consecutive seconds while being closely guarded. You can hold the ball for four seconds, dribble for four seconds, and then hold the ball for another four seconds if being closely guarded. The count starts over once the ball-handler breaks that range (when the referee stops counting and holds his arms out).

[94duke]

This is probably a stupid question...I've played a million hours of pick-up ball, but never a referee'd game....When the guard is bringing the ball past half court and stops right past mid-court to set up a play, the ref usually extends his arms out (like he's telling a story about the size of a fish he caught) - what does this signal to the players?

Also, what is a ball-handler not doing when the ref blows the whistle for the 5-second call?

"caught fish" : The ref is signaling that the defender is not close enough to begin counting a "5 second" count.

To avoid a 5-second call, the ball handler must:
a. If he hasn't started his dribble, begin to dribble.
b. If he has started to dribble, pass to another player or pick up his dribble.
c. If he has picked up his dribble, pass to another player.
d. Call a time-out.

I think that covers everything.

[94duke]

The arms signal that the ball handler is outside of the "closely guarded" range. The 5-second call is when a ball handler is dribbling or stationary for 5 consecutive seconds while being closely guarded. You can hold the ball for four seconds, dribble for four seconds, and then hold the ball for another four seconds if being closely guarded. The count starts over once the ball-handler breaks that range (when the referee stops counting and holds his arms out).

Oops! Looks like Richard Berg and DevilWolf both beat me to it!

[Steve68]

I'm no expert, but I believe the arms extended means the ref is not counting the five seconds towards the player being closely guarded, i.e. the defender within 6 feet. Once he does start counting, the offensive player must get his head/shoulder past the defender or get rid of the ball.

[miramar]

Both men and women are closely guarded as long as the same defensive player is continuously in a guarding stance without having another player between them (i.e., a screen), but for the men the distance is 6 feet and for the women 3 feet. The men only have violations in the front court, while for the women it can occur anywhere, I suppose because they don't have to bring the ball to the front court in 10 seconds. While men have five second violations whether they are dribbling or holding the ball, for the women it is only when they are holding the ball, so they can dribble indefinitely while being closely guarded. You also can't hold the ball for five seconds while surrounded by screening teammates.

Here's the latest from the NCAA:

Rule 4. Definitions

Section 13. Closely Guarded
Art. 1. (Men) A player in control in the front court only while holding or
dribbling the ball is closely guarded when his opponent is in a guarding
stance at a distance not exceeding 6 feet. This distance shall be measured
from the forward foot or feet of the defender to the forward foot or feet of
the opponent.
Art. 2. (Women) A player in control anywhere on the playing court while
holding (not dribbling) the ball is closely guarded when her opponent is in
a guarding stance at a distance not exceeding 3 feet. This distance shall be
measured from the forward foot or feet of the defender to the forward foot
or feet of the opponent.
Art. 3. After the start of a five-second closely guarded count, in order for
a closely guarded violation to occur, there shall be continuous guarding by
the same opponent.
RULE 4 / DEFINITIONS 65
Art. 4. When a player is positioned between the player in control of the ball
and his or her opponent, who is within 6 feet (men) or 3 feet (women), a
closely guarded situation does not exist.


Rule 9. Violations and Penalties

Section 14. Closely Guarded
Art. 1. Closely guarded violations occur when:
a. A team in its front court (men) or on the playing court (women) controls
the ball for five seconds in an area enclosed by screening teammates.
b. (Men) A closely guarded player anywhere in his front court holds or
dribbles the ball for five seconds. This count shall be terminated during
an interrupted dribble.
(Women) A player in control of the ball, but not dribbling, is closely
guarded when an opponent is in a guarding stance within 3 feet. A
closely guarded violation shall occur when the player in control of the
ball holds the ball for more than five seconds.

[uh_no]

"caught fish" : The ref is signaling that the defender is not close enough to begin counting a "5 second" count.

To avoid a 5-second call, the ball handler must:
a. If he hasn't started his dribble, begin to dribble.
b. If he has started to dribble, pass to another player or pick up his dribble.
c. If he has picked up his dribble, pass to another player.
d. Call a time-out.

I think that covers everything.

make a move towards the basket, or make a move so that the defender is spaced farther away......

basically the idea of the rule is you cant not do something for 5 seconds while being closely guarded.....you can't stand there holding the ball for 5 seconds, you can't stand there dribbling the ball for 5 seconds, you can't dribble around the perimeter for 5 seconds.....its not complicated