Is The Big East Overated Or Better Than we Thought ?

[NYC Duke Fan]

When Rutgers beats Georgetown, Louisville beats Syracuse at Syracuse and tonight UConn beats Villanova at Villanova, does it mean that The Big East is overated or much better than we thought as 3 top teams lose to lesser teams?

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

They are who we THOUGHT THEY WERE!!!! That's why we took the damn Court. You wanna crown them? Then crown their A**es.

[pfrduke]

When Rutgers beats Georgetown, Louisville beats Syracuse at Syracuse and tonight UConn beats Villanova at Villanova, does it mean that The Big East is overated or much better than we thought as 3 top teams lose to lesser teams?

Neither. Rutgers is still a bad team (just like NC State, despite beating Duke, is still a bad team). Louisville and UConn are about level with Clemson.

The top 4-5 teams in the BE are all very good. The next 4-5 teams are ok. And the bottom 6 are not very good.

[mr. synellinden]

Villanova doesn't play defense. You can't win the National Championship playing as poorly defensively as they play. I don't think they can win the Big East Championship with that defense.

Georgetown is an enigma -- losing to USF and Rutgers and beating Duke and Nova handily. Although we did lose to NC State on the road - bad conference losses do happen.

Despite their loss to Louisville, I think Syracuse is the best team in the Big East, and the most likely to go to the Final Four out of that conference. Their zone will be very hard to handle for teams who haven't seen it before.

West Virginia is intriguing, but I don't trust a Huggins coached team.

[DevilHorns]

They are who we THOUGHT THEY WERE!!!! That's why we took the damn Court. You wanna crown them? Then crown their A**es.

you just made my week. i can watch that tv clip again and again for hours at a time and stay amused.

[BlueintheFace]

They are big, fast, physical, and well coached at the top. I don't want to see a single BigEast team for the rest of the season if possible

[devildownunder]

Despite their loss to Louisville, I think Syracuse is the best team in the Big East, and the most likely to go to the Final Four out of that conference. Their zone will be very hard to handle for teams who haven't seen it before.



Their zone is hard to handle. Period. It's a slight to them to suggest that any edge they gain with their D in March would come largely from the fact that a lot of teams haven't played it. And that is what your post implies. The teams in the Big East that play Syracuse two or three times a year haven't had much success against it this season, including Louisville in upsetting them.

[Deslok]

The reality of this season is that there is a good deal of parity around. There are no teams that are good enough to have a bad night against a top 50 club and come away with a win(presuming the other club plays a good game). So teams in all leagues - ACC, Big East, Big 10/11, SEC, wherever are going to have some bad losses particularly on the road. It should also make for an entertaining tourney, as I'm very skeptical that anyone could name 4 teams right now and be confident that 2 of them would end up in the final 4.

[superdave]

I think we lose to Nova and Cuse if we play them in the tournament. Syracuse really does scare me because they are so athletic. I can definitely see them making the FF.

I think Nova is maybe a step below where they were last year because Dante Cunningham is gone. He was so good inside on both ends that he allowed them to get away with a lot. Not sure they have 2/3 of what he did for them last year.

As for Gtown, they fell apart last year and were in the NIT. I dont have a great deal of confidence in them and believe we could beat them.

WV, Pitt and Louisville could pull of an upset, but dont strike fear.

I'd say Nova is a Elite 8 bound and Syracuse FF bound.

[InSpades]

I think that during conference play you can't really prove a conference is better or worse than you thought it was. For every big win a team has (like UConn) another team has a bad loss ('Nova). Yet it seems every year that the Big East teams rise to the top of the rankings during conference play. Maybe it's because their conference is so big that they beat up on the bad teams?

At the same time the ACC doesn't seem to get much credit for smacking around UNC. This is a team that people thought was top 10 in the country until they started playing ACC games. As they fall shouldn't some other teams rise?

[Rich]

Georgetown is an enigma -- losing to USF and Rutgers and beating Duke and Nova handily. Although we did lose to NC State on the road - bad conference losses do happen.

Georgetown lost to USF at home -- the Verizon Center in DC.

[CDu]

Georgetown lost to USF at home -- the Verizon Center in DC.

It's also important to note that USF is not a "bad" loss. They're 15-9, #63 in the Pomeroy rankings, and #54 in the RPI. They also beat Pittsburgh this year. It's not a great loss and Georgetown should have still won that game, but it's not a bad loss. Our loss to NC State (despite being on the road) is worse.

[DukeSean]

They are who we THOUGHT THEY WERE!!!! That's why we took the damn Court. You wanna crown them? Then crown their A**es.

hahahaha thank you for that

[camion]

It's also important to note that USF is not a "bad" loss. They're 15-9, #63 in the Pomeroy rankings, and #54 in the RPI. They also beat Pittsburgh this year. It's not a great loss and Georgetown should have still won that game, but it's not a bad loss. Our loss to NC State (despite being on the road) is worse.

USF wasn't a bad loss. Now Rutgers, #147 in Pomeroy, that's bad. Worse than Duke to NCSU, #82.

[CDu]

USF wasn't a bad loss. Now Rutgers, #147 in Pomeroy, that's bad. Worse than Duke to NCSU, #82.

Agreed.

[hurleyfor3]

Yeah, nobody's really good this year. So the NC States and South Floridas and Rugerzezez and Minnesotas pick up wins here and there. Don't nobody say Kansas either. They barely got by A 'n M last night, and this is not the first time their record's looked good feeding on Big XII dross.

[CDu]

Yeah, nobody's really good this year. So the NC States and South Floridas and Rugerzezez and Minnesotas pick up wins here and there. Don't nobody say Kansas either. They barely got by A 'n M last night, and this is not the first time their record's looked good feeding on Big XII dross.

Firstly, South Florida is not in the same class as NC State, and Rutgers is lower than both. Further, every year some really good teams lose to not-so-good teams. And fianlly, A&M is 17-7, in the top-20 in RPI, and in the top-35 in Pomeroy. They're a legitimately solid team. Kansas winning that game on the road should not be viewed as a bad thing for them, regardless of how close it was.

[Duvall]

Yeah, nobody's really good this year. So the NC States and South Floridas and Rugerzezez and Minnesotas pick up wins here and there. Don't nobody say Kansas either. They barely got by A 'n M last night, and this is not the first time their record's looked good feeding on Big XII dross.

Kansas.

Texas A&M isn't bad at all, and the Big XII may be the best league in the country. Certainly better top-to-bottom than the BIG EAST.

[InSpades]

It's also important to note that USF is not a "bad" loss. They're 15-9, #63 in the Pomeroy rankings, and #54 in the RPI. They also beat Pittsburgh this year. It's not a great loss and Georgetown should have still won that game, but it's not a bad loss. Our loss to NC State (despite being on the road) is worse.

I'm reasonably certain Pomeroy would disagree with you. The difference between N.C. State and South Florida is more than made up for by the road vs. away difference.

[CDu]

I'm reasonably certain Pomeroy would disagree with you. The difference between N.C. State and South Florida is more than made up for by the road vs. away difference.

To get nitpicky, is the difference between home and away enough to offset the difference in talent between the two teams as well as the difference in final score of the two games?

In any case, my point was more that USF wasn't a bad loss (not saying that it was a good loss). In any case, it's at worst a similar quality of loss as our loss to NC State. My point was more to note that USF isn't nearly the same awful team that they've been in years past.

[Olympic Fan]

Back on topic -how good is the Big East?

I think the league has some good teams at the top, but some soft teams at the bottom (including Rutgers).

None of the computers see the Big East as the best conference --

The RPI has it 1. Big 12; 2. Big East; 3. ACC; 4. Big 10

Pomeroy has it: 1. ACC; 2. Big 12; 3. Big East; 4. Big 10

Sagarin has it: 1. ACC; 2. Big 12; 3. Big East; 4. Big 10

If you rank the leagues by OOC winning percentage it's 1. Big 12; 2. ACC; 3. Big East (all three very close) and 4. Big 10.

If you rank the leagues by records against other BCS leagues, you get: 1. Big 12 (28-12), 2. ACC (24-21); 3. SEC (25-25); 4. Big 10 (19-20); 5. Big East (19-21).

I understand the argument that the Big East is strongest at the top, but when you're discussing the strength of A LEAGUE, you have to consider the depth of the league -- and all the evidence is that top-to-bottom, the Big East is the third best league -- after the Big 12 and the ACC.

About the only thing everybody should agree on is that the bottom three BCS leagues are clearly 4. Big 10; 5. SEC and a very, very distant No. 6 Pac 10. In fact, you can make a very good case that the A-10 is significantly better this season than the Pac 10.

[JasonEvans]

About the only thing everybody should agree on is that the bottom three BCS leagues are clearly 4. Big 10; 5. SEC and a very, very distant No. 6 Pac 10. In fact, you can make a very good case that the A-10 is significantly better this season than the Pac 10.

The Pac 10 better be thrilled that Az State has won 4 out of 5 or it would be looking at being a 1 bid league.

-Jason "I think the Mountain West and A10 both have better teams at the top than the Pac 10, but the bottom half tilts to the Pac 10" Evans

[tbyers11]

The Pac 10 better be thrilled that Az State has won 4 out of 5 or it would be looking at being a 1 bid league.

-Jason "I think the Mountain West and A10 both have better teams at the top than the Pac 10, but the bottom half tilts to the Pac 10" Evans

I think there is a very strong possibility that the Pac10 gets multiple bids only if someone other than Cal wins the conference tourney. Arizona State has a good conference record at 8-5 but they have a pretty tough conference schedule to finish out the year. @AZ, @Stan, @Cal, USC, UCLA. I think they have to go 4-1 and make sure that one of those is a win @ Cal AND make it to the final of the conference tourney to be in the at large discussion.

Pretty sad when the top 3 teams in the league best non-con wins are: Murray State at home (Cal), Texas A&M at home (UW) and San Diego St at home (AZ St)

[CDu]

I think there is a very strong possibility that the Pac10 gets multiple bids only if someone other than Cal wins the conference tourney. Arizona State has a good conference record at 8-5 but they have a pretty tough conference schedule to finish out the year. @AZ, @Stan, @Cal, USC, UCLA. I think they have to go 4-1 and make sure that one of those is a win @ Cal AND make it to the final of the conference tourney to be in the at large discussion.

Pretty sad when the top 3 teams in the league best non-con wins are: Murray State at home (Cal), Texas A&M at home (UW) and San Diego St at home (AZ St)

The PAC-10 has a couple of teams that could join Cal. In addition to ASU, Washington could sneak in to the at-large picture. Washington is 18-8 and 7-6 in conference but beat TAMU. They finish with USC and UCLA at home, and then a three game road stretch against Oregon Oregon St, and WSU. If they win 3 or 4 of those, I think they would get in (though as a bubble team).

[tbyers11]

The PAC-10 has a couple of teams that could join Cal. In addition to ASU, Washington could sneak in to the at-large picture. Washington is 18-8 and 7-6 in conference but beat TAMU. They finish with USC and UCLA at home, and then a three game road stretch against Oregon Oregon St, and WSU. If they win 3 or 4 of those, I think they would get in (though as a bubble team).

Agreed that Washington could get close to, if not on, the right side of the bubble along with ASU if they both get hot down the stretch. If things go according to form the remainder of the season, the Pac-10 tourney semi between ASU and Washington (2 and 3 seeds in some order) could be a de facto play-in game.

[rthomas]

Having watched WVU all year in person and on tv - I have to say that I think we are overrated and could end up mid conference by the end of the year - or we could get better. We have talent. We don't have a bench that can score. We have a Big Turk who is slow and can't play defense. We have the top JUCO player from last year who can't play defense. So no bench.

We have three very talented forwards, one pretty good forward (who is streaky on offense), and a point guard (Truck) who is learning defense but not there yet. A pretty good defensive point guard who can't score because of a shoulder injury (but is getting better).

But our offense is throw it to Da'Sean Butler.

I see us as maybe sweet 16 but that's all.

[DU Band Prez 88]

I think we lose to Nova and Cuse if we play them in the tournament. Syracuse really does scare me because they are so athletic. I can definitely see them making the FF.

I think Nova is maybe a step below where they were last year because Dante Cunningham is gone. He was so good inside on both ends that he allowed them to get away with a lot. Not sure they have 2/3 of what he did for them last year.

As for Gtown, they fell apart last year and were in the NIT. I dont have a great deal of confidence in them and believe we could beat them.

WV, Pitt and Louisville could pull of an upset, but dont strike fear.

I'd say Nova is a Elite 8 bound and Syracuse FF bound.


We're most likely headed to the East Region (whether as a 1 or 2 seed), and it is an absolute certainty that Syracuse is not headed to the East since this regional will be played at the Carrier Dome. If the bracket were finalized based on today's rankings/standings, Villanova would be the 1 seed in the East and we'd be the 2 seed. Duke could conceivably have to play BOTH Nova and Syracuse....who knows?

I think it'd be great to have a 2nd shot at Nova; we're a better team than we were last year, and agree with your analysis of Nova without Cunningham - they are not quite as good as last year's team without him.

I would be most concerned about having to play WVU, of the rest of the potential Big East NCAA teams. I think that we'd beat G'town the 2nd time around.

Big East teams aside, a potential 3 seed that I absolutely do NOT want to see in Duke's region is Kansas State.

[Wander]

Yeah, nobody's really good this year. So the NC States and South Floridas and Rugerzezez and Minnesotas pick up wins here and there. Don't nobody say Kansas either. They barely got by A 'n M last night, and this is not the first time their record's looked good feeding on Big XII dross.

Dude, you realize that Texas A&M is ranked and it was a road game, right? That's a good win no matter what the margin of victory is. KU has a perfect record in at absolute worst the third best conference. That's impressive. They may have had a couple games that are closer than they should have been, but they have less losses than Duke 2001, Florida 2007, or UNC 2009 did at this point, and all those teams (relatively) breezed through the tournament.

[loldevilz]

I think it'd be great to have a 2nd shot at Nova; we're a better team than we were last year, and agree with your analysis of Nova without Cunningham - they are not quite as good as last year's team without him.

I would be most concerned about having to play WVU, of the rest of the potential Big East NCAA teams. I think that we'd beat G'town the 2nd time around.


I don't think any player in the country scares me as much as scottie reynolds. The man can carry his team and is IMO the most clutch player in the country. I can think of quite a few teams I would rather play than Villanova.

I also don't want to play G'town. Their guards are tough and aggressive and can play. But Coach K didn't seem to worried about the loss so I haven't been either. But wanting a rematch certainly seems ridiculus to me.

[hurleyfor3]

Geez, I was trolling for crimsonandblue and I ended up getting like six other people. :mad:

Trust me, I don't think we're better than Kansas or anything.

[gotham devil]

When Rutgers beats Georgetown, Louisville beats Syracuse at Syracuse and tonight UConn beats Villanova at Villanova, does it mean that The Big East is overated or much better than we thought as 3 top teams lose to lesser teams?
Duke got smoked by Georgetown and noted analyst & alumnus Jason Williams believes that the ACC will only get about 1/3 of its teams into the NCAA Tournament. A rational ACC fan probably wouldn't label this year's Big East Conference as overrated.

[Duvall]

Duke got smoked by Georgetown and noted analyst & alumnus Jason Williams believes that the ACC will only get about 1/3 of its teams into the NCAA Tournament. A rational ACC fan probably wouldn't label this year's Big East Conference as overrated.

Jason is entitled to his opinion, but his opinion is almost certainly wrong. The ACC has seven teams that are well-positioned for the NCAA tournament right now, especially after Virginia Tech's win tonight over Wake Forest.

[loldevilz]

Last year the big east lived up to their expectations. I expect that this year they will be just as good. We'll probably see around 5 big east teams in the sweet sixteen.