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hq2
02-14-2010, 11:44 AM
So why not start the discussion now (picked up from the Zouperman) posts.
No, folks I'm saying this with a straight face: Zoubs may play in the NBA!
It isn't that far-fetched. Let's examine the evidence.

1. He can rebound. Zoubs is strong, and unafraid of punishment; he can take it, and dish it out some too. When he gets a board, he hangs on to it.

2. He can shoot free throws. That's a big plus when you're doing #1.

3. He's slow on defense, but a lot of NBA big men are slow also and not good shooters, so he should be able to guard a number of pro players.

4. On offense, he doesn't do anything stupid. He doesn't take bad shots,
or throw the ball away. He'll (usually, somehow) hit his layups and tip ins. When you throw it to him in the low post, he'll catch it and hang on to it. (Unlike, say Big Casey, who couldn't hang on to the ball if you taped it to his hands). He's shown decent passing ability lately, and can hit cutters and open jump shooters.

5. He can block shots. Since he can't jump, he's rarely faked out of position, so he doesn't move anyway, and he's there for the next shot attempt after the first pump fake.

Both Marty Nessly and Chuck Nevitt, players with much lower skills, got NBA contracts. Most people (myself included) thought Shav Randolph wouldn't play in the pros either. So what do you think; is Zoubs worth a late second round pick?

HateCarolina
02-14-2010, 11:56 AM
While I do not think he will be picked in the draft he could play his way into the D-League or at the very least he could probably find a role in Europe or Australia/New Zealand....remember that Nick Horvath has found success down under with the NZ Tall Blacks.

jimsumner
02-14-2010, 12:10 PM
Stranger things have happened. Did you know that you can't teach height?

Nessley, Geoff Crompton and Matt Wenstrom had cups of coffee in the NBA, Nevitt and Ivano Newbill more than cups of coffee and none had college careers of any great distinction.

He'll get a long look. But it will have to be the right meeting of player and team.

SCMatt33
02-14-2010, 12:19 PM
I think that Zoubek would have to prove himself against bigger teams before an NBA team would give him a chance whether that be at Duke, Internationally, or the D-League. At 7'/7'1" depending on who you ask. That put's him in the Brook Lopez/Shaq type height range. Most of the clunker's that make it in the NBA purely because of size are 7'3"/7'4" and up.

With his injury problems and lack of quality performances against big front lines, I have a hard time seeing him drafted. That doesn't mean that a team couldn't see something they like and invite him to camp.

Starter
02-14-2010, 12:22 PM
The sad part is that if he was playing this way as a freshman, he'd probably get hyped to no end and be a lottery pick, with people citing upside, etc. For all we know, Zoubek CAN get even better, but I would guess most NBA people would think he's reached a ceiling. All I know is that a lot of hard work for a lot of years went into yesterday's game, and I'm ecstatic for Zoubek.

MChambers
02-14-2010, 12:22 PM
Nessley, Geoff Crompton and Matt Wenstrom had cups of coffee in the NBA, Nevitt and Ivano Newbill more than cups of coffee and none had college careers of any great distinction.
Nice to remember Crompton. I remember when Denver signed him to a couple of 10 day contracts and then won a couple of games. A reporter asked Doug Moe, the coach and UNC grad, if Crompton had made a difference, and Moe said "Sure has. The other day he got on the team bus and the whole thing leaned to one side."

CameronBornAndBred
02-14-2010, 12:28 PM
I think he will get looks, especially if he keeps up his play. Obviously yesterday was phenomenal, but I've seen steady improvement the whole season. No reason to believe he will take a step backwards. Like I said in the other Zoubek thread, if he can give an NBA team 15 valuable minutes, they will pay for his services.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-14-2010, 12:56 PM
Nice to remember Crompton. I remember when Denver signed him to a couple of 10 day contracts and then won a couple of games. A reporter asked Doug Moe, the coach and UNC grad, if Crompton had made a difference, and Moe said "Sure has. The other day he got on the team bus and the whole thing leaned to one side."


That's hilarious. Doug Moe, great guy.

I think Zoubek would have to start playing well consistently to get some NBA scouts to turn their heads. The problem is, Zoubs has played 3 years building up this reputation of weak and unathletic. One game won't change their minds on him. If he plays this well (10 pts, 7-10 rebs) the last 7 or so games and takes it into the tournament where many scouts will be watching intently, he has a chance to sneak up into the draft boards and would certainly get a look for a tryout and would get a summer league spot.

greybeard
02-14-2010, 01:47 PM
Implicit in the question is whether one thinks Z has reached his potential as an offensive player, or near it, during his years at Duke. If the answer is Yes than the answer is No. I do not believe that Z has come close to reaching his potential as an offensive player at Duke, not in the same universe as close. So, maybe, maybe he has a shot.

Jim3k
02-14-2010, 01:57 PM
Do da phrase 'Mark Eaton' mean anyt'ing to youse boyz?

Mark Eaton (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/eatonma01.html)

True, Mark was taller and a bit heavier. But I think Zoubs may actually be quicker, though that might not be saying much.

At least Zoubs started for his college team fairly frequently. Eaton never did. So Zoubs can claim more college experience.

jipops
02-14-2010, 02:20 PM
Stranger things have happened. Did you know that you can't teach height?

Nessley, Geoff Crompton and Matt Wenstrom had cups of coffee in the NBA, Nevitt and Ivano Newbill more than cups of coffee and none had college careers of any great distinction.

He'll get a long look. But it will have to be the right meeting of player and team.

Wenstrom did, really? Nevitt is also one of those tall guys with only some college productivity to have some sort of career in the nba.

theAlaskanBear
02-14-2010, 02:24 PM
Implicit in the question is whether one thinks Z has reached his potential as an offensive player, or near it, during his years at Duke. If the answer is Yes than the answer is No. I do not believe that Z has come close to reaching his potential as an offensive player at Duke, not in the same universe as close. So, maybe, maybe he has a shot.

Nail, meet hammer.

DukieInBrasil
02-14-2010, 02:25 PM
Aaron Gray comes to mind as a huge guy that gets NBA paychecks. He did have a rather more illustrious college career than Z has had, but if Z continues to start the rest of the year and do things in a similar fashion as to what he did vs. the Terps, I think he'll mos def get a look, maybe even drafted in 2nd round.
I agree with Greybeard, Z doesn't look like he's reached his potential yet. That image of unathletic and clumsy mentioned before is probably, no, entirely related to his injury-plagued career so far. In his first year of consistent healthiness, Z has shown to be much more steady, solid and productive even if he's not scoring the ball.

I must disagree with the notion that Z is a good FT shooter, as mentioned in pt #2 at the start of the thread. Z brought his average up to 50% and had been hovering in the 40's all year. Though he did have an 80+% at the line last year, he has a very poor career FT%. As to the other points, Z does have good hands, but he has historically not held on to it very well. Did the MD game represent a turning point for him in terms of not bringing the ball down or was it momentary flash? And also, Z is not an effective shot blocker, although he may alter lots of shots.

OldSchool
02-14-2010, 02:37 PM
Big Z may be one of those few players who start out in Europe but eventually make it to the NBA.

I do not think Big Z is anywhere close to his potential, and the reason is his lack of physical development.

The beginning of this season was the best he's looked physically in years. The reason is he finallly had a full offseason free of injuries to work on his physical conditioning and strength.

He appeared to have significantly lowered his bodyfat percentage by the time the season started, although I wonder if it hasn't been creeping back up lately.

Zoubs needs to do again this offseason what he did last offseason.

The last thing Zoubs needs to do is bulk up. What he needs to do is dramatically lower his bodyfat percentage and work like crazy to strengthen his jumping ability with squats and plyometrics.

If Zoubs had a halfway decent jump, he could develop into a very effective professional basketball player.

People who say jumping ability is all genetics are wrong. It can be developed significantly through training.

If Zoubs were to lower his bodyfat percentage substantially with the result that he would put less stress on his feet and legs when he jumps, and strengthen his jumping ability through training, the difference in his effectiveness on a basketball court would be considerable.

Because injuries have so slowed his development, it would take more than a couple of offseasons to get there. And maybe Z has other plans for his future besides dedicating himself to one day play in the NBA. But I think he does have that potential, should he choose that direction.

fgb
02-14-2010, 02:45 PM
z has never struck me as a servicable nba big man. not even last night.

however, and especially in light of k's comments regarding what an intelligent player he is, i could see him having a bright future in coaching.

jimsumner
02-14-2010, 02:49 PM
"i could see him having a bright future in coaching. "

So, you're saying he could take over from Wojo and finally give Duke a real big-man coach?

ChicagoCrazy84
02-14-2010, 02:56 PM
"i could see him having a bright future in coaching. "

So, you're saying he could take over from Wojo and finally give Duke a real big-man coach?


No, he'll probably be the PG coach for us. :D

MChambers
02-14-2010, 03:37 PM
"i could see him having a bright future in coaching. "

So, you're saying he could take over from Wojo and finally give Duke a real big-man coach?

That would reduce the volume of posts here by about 25%!

Kedsy
02-14-2010, 03:40 PM
I have thought for some time that Z has an outside chance to make an NBA roster, but since I'm probably viewed around here as too much of a Z-ophile I haven't said so until now. I don't think he'll be drafted, although it's possible he could go late in the 2nd round, but if he wants to go to camp as an undrafted free agent, my guess is there are several teams who would give him a shot.

In my opinion nearly all of Duke's current recruited scholarship players have a chance to someday be on an NBA roster (not sure about Lance, although K himself has suggested it's a possibility, but everyone else I think has a pretty good chance of at least getting a cup of coffee). This is why I don't quite get why people say we don't have a lot of talent.

CDu
02-14-2010, 03:51 PM
The reality is that 7-footers always have a chance to make the NBA. If you're big, you have a chance. I think he's still very much on the outside looking in. But I certainly won't rule him out.

The biggest things going against him are that his size advantage goes down a lot at the NBA level. Most NBA teams have a few guys 6'11" or taller, whereas in college a lot of teams play 6'9" and shorter. So that 3-4+ inch advantage in height becomes a 1-2 inch height advantage.

MChambers
02-14-2010, 04:08 PM
The reality is that 7-footers always have a chance to make the NBA. If you're big, you have a chance. I think he's still very much on the outside looking in. But I certainly won't rule him out.

The biggest things going against him are that his size advantage goes down a lot at the NBA level. Most NBA teams have a few guys 6'11" or taller, whereas in college a lot of teams play 6'9" and shorter. So that 3-4+ inch advantage in height becomes a 1-2 inch height advantage.

I think Brian brings a lot on the floor, and most fans miss that. I even thought 3 years ago he'd be in the NBA. This year, even as he has played effectively, I haven't really felt that way, mostly because he has shown so little of an offensive game.

Greg_Newton
02-14-2010, 04:11 PM
How great would it be if all three members of this much-maligned senior class found themselves on NBA rosters?

I want to believe it, but on a skeptical note... K generally gets the most out of his players while they're at Duke, and there aren't a whole lot of Dukies that have made it in the NBA that didn't excel at Duke. Shavlik Randolph is the only one I can think of with similar stats to Z/Lance, and even he's just a borderline roster player who was regarded highly enough to go pro early.

_Gary
02-14-2010, 04:12 PM
Don't get me wrong. I love Z. I really do. But I think it's a real stretch to see him playing in the NBA. He has the size, but that's about it. He doesn't have the quickness, the agility, nor the hops to make a big difference in the pros. If he had just a little lift it might be a different story, but right now I just can't see him succeeding because the slight advantage he'd have with height is going to be negated with a lack of vertical leaping ability and the agility needed to guard NBA centers. I just think he'd get posterized a bunch and have a difficult time scoring on the offensive end. But I'd love to be proven wrong and see him go on to an NBA career.

superdave
02-14-2010, 04:34 PM
Don't get me wrong. I love Z. I really do. But I think it's a real stretch to see him playing in the NBA. He has the size, but that's about it. He doesn't have the quickness, the agility, nor the hops to make a big difference in the pros. If he had just a little lift it might be a different story, but right now I just can't see him succeeding because the slight advantage he'd have with height is going to be negated with a lack of vertical leaping ability and the agility needed to guard NBA centers. I just think he'd get posterized a bunch and have a difficult time scoring on the offensive end. But I'd love to be proven wrong and see him go on to an NBA career.

Agreed. I dont think BZ has the quickness or foot work to play in the NBA, and I dont think he runs the court particularly well either. But he ought o have a solid pro career elsewhere as long as his body holds up. I just think the NBA would have to switch to a 35 second shot clock for BZ to make a difference!

Duke4life92
02-14-2010, 05:06 PM
Do da phrase 'Mark Eaton' mean anyt'ing to youse boyz?

Umm,amazing shot blocker mark eaton was,not the most athletic but at 7'4 and great technique there is a difference.Zoubs does what he can without leaving the floor but that won't cut it in the NBA.Great that he does what he can for us and i'm sure he'd be glad just getting it done the only way he knows how and take that Duke Degree and move on.Jmho.

Kedsy
02-14-2010, 06:21 PM
Agreed. I dont think BZ has the quickness or foot work to play in the NBA, and I dont think he runs the court particularly well either. But he ought o have a solid pro career elsewhere as long as his body holds up. I just think the NBA would have to switch to a 35 second shot clock for BZ to make a difference!

Actually, I think Z has pretty good footwork. And center is the one position in the NBA where you can sometimes get away with below average quickness.

So I don't know whether Z will make the League or not, but it's not like Greg Ostertag was the quickest fellow on Earth, either, and he did OK for himself. (Granted, Ostertag was probably a better player than Z, but his career averages at Kansas were 7.6 ppg and 6.1 rpg, so he wasn't worlds better.)

CarterTheGreat
02-14-2010, 09:27 PM
I would love to see him make an NBA roster, not that care at all about the league but that it would another Dukie make a roster and that is always a good thing. For years we have been waiting to see the Zoubs we all knew he could be and he showed how awesome a game he could have. If he would just be consistent with it, and I realize that he was out of his mind against Maryland, he would be a full time starter and a fan favorite. I must admit, I went crazy when he dunked. I've been waiting four years for that :)

Kedsy
02-14-2010, 11:23 PM
I must admit, I went crazy when he dunked. I've been waiting four years for that :)

He dunked at least twice last year. I saw both on TV.

greybeard
02-14-2010, 11:32 PM
Most bigs do little well but dunk, I'm not talking the stars, I'm talking the bench riders who get their chances, get a few oohs and ahhs, and sit and get traded.

Z came to Duke exhibiting an extraoridinary attribute that is exceedingly difficult thing to teach, a feel for space, how to find it with advantage, and he exhibited it again last game big time, including on all those put backs.

Catching the ball with advantage inside is 90 percent of an effective offensive game gor a big. You almost have to score or get fouled. Few second string bigs do not come close to having that talent. Not close.

Now Z has some stiffness that he has to lose (did I say that before) but once (if) he gets a healthy dose of himself without it, I mean really without it, he will have it (sort of like riding a bike). Learning to score the ball from that soft hooked-up place, as opposed to that stiff place he drags around with him especially this year, all the added muscle has killed his fould shot, for example, will be a relative breeze. Plenty of 7 footers score the ball without needing to dunk. A guy who can get a few easy baskets at the rim, and do a decent job on D and on the boards can have a place.

Hurting people at the rim makes offenses sing. If a guy like Z can do that, and I'm thinking that there is a decent chance he can, then he's got a chance. He certainly has proven himself willing to do all the scut work. Throw in a few creative catches in close and finishes, and voila. Strager things have happened.

licc85
02-14-2010, 11:50 PM
honestly, I really don't think it would work out for him. He's about as quick as a sloth and he would probably average 12 fouls a minute. He will be able to make on a roster somewhere in europe, but the NBA may be a stretch, he's just not athletic enough.

Greg_Newton
02-15-2010, 12:24 AM
Z came to Duke exhibiting an extraoridinary attribute that is exceedingly difficult thing to teach, a feel for space, how to find it with advantage, and he exhibited it again last game big time, including on all those put backs.

Catching the ball with advantage inside is 90 percent of an effective offensive game gor a big. You almost have to score or get fouled. Few second string bigs do not come close to having that talent. Not close.


Good point, but I think Z needs to make some strides with that remaining 10% - i.e. actually scoring when he gets good position. Simply put, I wish he was more willing to make a quick move and shoot. Often when he gets the ball in good position, he'll make a one-dribble move, pivot and... just kick the ball back out even though he's 4-5 feet from the basket.

He's got great touch, and I'd like to see him use it more. Hopefully the UMD game gives him the confidence to do so.

crimsonandblue
02-15-2010, 12:43 AM
Actually, I think Z has pretty good footwork. And center is the one position in the NBA where you can sometimes get away with below average quickness.

So I don't know whether Z will make the League or not, but it's not like Greg Ostertag was the quickest fellow on Earth, either, and he did OK for himself. (Granted, Ostertag was probably a better player than Z, but his career averages at Kansas were 7.6 ppg and 6.1 rpg, so he wasn't worlds better.)

Well, Ostertag was drafted for his defensive skills. He blocked more shots in each of his junior (97) and senior (91) years than Zoubek's blocked in his career (73 and counting). And Zoubek is a big guy, but Ostertag was a legit 7'2" and wide, with a long reach. And he found a great fit with the Jazz and Sloan.

If you want a comparison, Zoubek is more a lower-middle class (i.e. not a poor man's) version of former Kansas center Greg Dreiling (who Duke played against in '86). But the NBA game has changed a bunch since Dreiling came out...

Kedsy
02-15-2010, 12:56 AM
Well, Ostertag was drafted for his defensive skills. He blocked more shots in each of his junior (97) and senior (91) years than Zoubek's blocked in his career (73 and counting). And Zoubek is a big guy, but Ostertag was a legit 7'2" and wide, with a long reach. And he found a great fit with the Jazz and Sloan.

If you want a comparison, Zoubek is more a lower-middle class (i.e. not a poor man's) version of former Kansas center Greg Dreiling (who Duke played against in '86). But the NBA game has changed a bunch since Dreiling came out...

Yes, I know Ostertag was a great shot blocker, while Z is more of a shot alterer, and thus not a perfect comparison. The point I was trying to make was that Ostertag was able to make it in the League despite having below average quickness.

throatybeard
02-15-2010, 01:25 AM
"i could see him having a bright future in coaching. "

so, you're saying he could take over from wojo and finally give duke a real big-man coach?

bwahahahahahhahahahahhahaha

licc85
02-15-2010, 01:27 AM
We all saw what Zoubs did on Saturday, but I'm not entirely sure whether it was because the fact that he started in place of Miles (who has been steadily losing minutes because of his poor defense) or because of the matchup against the undersized Maryland squad. He also had a big game against them last year at Cameron. (but then again, who didnt?)

Anyway, I think we can all agree that if Zoubs can maintain this level of play, we're a completely different team that is much better equipped to make a deep run in march. I agree with coach's decision to start Zoubek, although I'm skeptical about how this will help the team in the long run, since Zoubs is still a foul magnet, and we don't know how this will affect Miles' confidence down the stretch. I think coach K will keep this starting lineup as long as we keep winning. In any case, Zoubek is our most experienced center, and I hope he can keep up this kind of production.

FerryFor50
02-15-2010, 04:41 AM
I think he definitely gets a shot to see what he can do, if it's only in NBADL.

dyedwab
02-15-2010, 09:51 AM
Although Z may or may not have a shot at the NBA, the guy who he's always reminded me of is Crawford Palmer.

Palmer has had a long career in France, playing for the Olympic team that won a Silver medal in the 2000 Olympics

dukeimac
02-15-2010, 10:15 AM
Well, I think Zoooo has a chance to make it in the NBA but it won't be any time soon. He still has some things to learn and get better at, and I think he can do that. The question is how?

Overseas is not an option. If you follow those teams, most of those teams don't have a big post player that plants himself down low. The overseas teams like to get up and down the court fast and that is not a fit for Zooo. Unfortunately Zooo is not quick and that is something I don't think he will ever become. Someone might give him a chance but I think it will be short lived.

If he is going to make it, and I think he can as a role player (wow, do you think he could handle that?), coming off the bench for short stints. Sounds to me that would be an excellent fit. I think he needs to go to the D-League. He will need to get on a team that will really help develop him. Like an Austin Toros and Quinnn Schneider would be an excellent fit. Zooo is the type of guy that would be willing to learn and playing against guys his size would do wonders for him plus having a coach who would take the extra time to help him develop.

My feeling is that he is getting better because Miles is offering him some excellent competition. Something that he has never had. I'm wondering if there is a connection between Zooo getting better and Miles struggling. I think Zooo is now more comfortable with playing against guys his size. He is not over sized and the guy he is guarding is not so much quicker than he is that he is learning how to actually play and defend the post.

I think, hoping, that we are seeing "school is in session" right in front of our eyes concerning Zooo.

Billy Dat
02-15-2010, 10:56 AM
I don't see it for the same reasons others have been stating - his lack of quickness and lack of shooting ability being the main reasons. I think it's funny that most guys are comparing him to players who are no longer in the league - and for good reason as the plodding 7 footer has less and less of a place in the league these days. For the sake of debate, here's a list of every 7 footer currently in the NBA - which do you think Zou is most like?

Aaron Gray
Alexis Ajinca
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
Andrew Bynum
Brendan Haywood
Brook Lopez
BJ Mullens
Chris Kaman
Darko Milicic
DeSagana Diop
Didier Ilunga-Mbenga
Dirk Nowitzki
Francisco Elson
Greg Oden
Hamed Haddadi
Hasheem Thabeet
Jason Collins
Jason Smith
JaVale McGee
Joel Przybilla
Johan Petro
Kosta Koufos
Kyrylo Fesenko
Marc Gasol
Marcin Gortat
Nenad Krstic
Oleksiy Pecherov
Patrick O'Bryant
Pau Gasol
Primoz Brezec
Rasho Nesterovic
Robin Lopez
Roy Hibbert
Ryan Hollins
Shaquille O'Neal
Spencer Hawes
Steven Hunter
Tyson Chandler
Yi Jianlian
Zydrunas Ilgauskas

RoyalBlue08
02-15-2010, 11:18 AM
I don't see it for the same reasons others have been stating - his lack of quickness and lack of shooting ability being the main reasons. I think it's funny that most guys are comparing him to players who are no longer in the league - and for good reason as the plodding 7 footer has less and less of a place in the league these days. For the sake of debate, here's a list of every 7 footer currently in the NBA - which do you think Zou is most like?

Aaron Gray
Alexis Ajinca
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
Andrew Bynum
Brendan Haywood
Brook Lopez
BJ Mullens
Chris Kaman
Darko Milicic
DeSagana Diop
Didier Ilunga-Mbenga
Dirk Nowitzki
Francisco Elson
Greg Oden
Hamed Haddadi
Hasheem Thabeet
Jason Collins
Jason Smith
JaVale McGee
Joel Przybilla
Johan Petro
Kosta Koufos
Kyrylo Fesenko
Marc Gasol
Marcin Gortat
Nenad Krstic
Oleksiy Pecherov
Patrick O'Bryant
Pau Gasol
Primoz Brezec
Rasho Nesterovic
Robin Lopez
Roy Hibbert
Ryan Hollins
Shaquille O'Neal
Spencer Hawes
Steven Hunter
Tyson Chandler
Yi Jianlian
Zydrunas Ilgauskas

a little bit shaq, a little bit dirk...

greybeard
02-15-2010, 12:22 PM
Good point, but I think Z needs to make some strides with that remaining 10% - i.e. actually scoring when he gets good position. Simply put, I wish he was more willing to make a quick move and shoot. Often when he gets the ball in good position, he'll make a one-dribble move, pivot and... just kick the ball back out even though he's 4-5 feet from the basket.

He's got great touch, and I'd like to see him use it more. Hopefully the UMD game gives him the confidence to do so.

Very good point. I think his functional confusion, why he doesn't use it more, comes from the rigidity he brought to the table which has been amplified by his obvious strength strides this past year. While I think that the added muscle and strength are key to his current and future success, I also think that they have a downside--they incline the mind to rigidity in movement. There are times in the flow of things that Z lets go of the rigidity and we see some movements that have a different look and feel.

Most all athletic trainers work with athletes at high speeds and begin with incredibly complex and demanding movements to try to improve agility. This is not the way to self-discovery and to changing that which is habitual. If an individual has a current organization that will support such challenges, progress can be made by such a trying regimine; but little if anything new will be learned. Z, like most everyone, can use a little self learning.

Man, did all that weight training and I'm assuming so-called agility drills screw up Z's foul shot or what.

flyingdutchdevil
02-15-2010, 12:24 PM
Can someone explain Zoub's free throw shooting? I don't think I've ever seen this trend before:

06-07: 67%
07-08: 45%
08-09: 83%
09-10: 50%

Wow. That's decent / really bad / really good / really bad - all in the span of 4 years. Anyone know any player like that? One a year-to-year basis?

Newton_14
02-15-2010, 12:52 PM
Can someone explain Zoub's free throw shooting? I don't think I've ever seen this trend before:

06-07: 67%
07-08: 45%
08-09: 83%
09-10: 50%

Wow. That's decent / really bad / really good / really bad - all in the span of 4 years. Anyone know any player like that? One a year-to-year basis?

First, I would throw out his soph numbers. That was all about injuries killing his entire year. That leaves good numbers his fresh/jr years.

This year I am inclined to believe it is the weight training. While he did drop 20 lbs from last year's playing weight which did wonders for his agility and footwork, he is noticeably bigger through his chest/biceps/shoulders.

His stroke is very different from last year. Last year his free throw stroke looked similar to a guard with good form. This year, his stroke is noticeably quicker with a pronounced "flick" with the wrist, rather than a smooth flowing stroke with smoother wrist movement. It has killed his touch and the trajectory is flatter. Even with all that going wrong you could tell he was going to nail the 2 late free throws he shot Sat as that was 100% about confidence. Might as well have been Jon at the line on those 2. And I loved the "low-five" handslap LT gave him after the first one. That was fun to watch.

Speaking of LT, I am very impressed with his shooting improvements both from the line and from the floor. His HS Coach has maintained for 4 years that the guy could shoot the ball. Good to see LT finally proving his coach right.

For all the grief folks give those 2 players they have worked their rearends off over 4 years and improved enough to make significant impacts this year.

Great to see.

greybeard
02-15-2010, 02:04 PM
First, I would throw out his soph numbers. That was all about injuries killing his entire year. That leaves good numbers his fresh/jr years.

This year I am inclined to believe it is the weight training. While he did drop 20 lbs from last year's playing weight which did wonders for his agility and footwork, he is noticeably bigger through his chest/biceps/shoulders.

His stroke is very different from last year. Last year his free throw stroke looked similar to a guard with good form. This year, his stroke is noticeably quicker with a pronounced "flick" with the wrist, rather than a smooth flowing stroke with smoother wrist movement. It has killed his touch and the trajectory is flatter. Even with all that going wrong you could tell he was going to nail the 2 late free throws he shot Sat as that was 100% about confidence. Might as well have been Jon at the line on those 2. And I loved the "low-five" handslap LT gave him after the first one. That was fun to watch.

Speaking of LT, I am very impressed with his shooting improvements both from the line and from the floor. His HS Coach has maintained for 4 years that the guy could shoot the ball. Good to see LT finally proving his coach right.

For all the grief folks give those 2 players they have worked their rearends off over 4 years and improved enough to make significant impacts this year.

Great to see.

Thanks Boozer, that seems to nail it. I think LT's shooting is a vital piece. Mason took a few of the same shots and made one. Pulling a big away from the rim to have to guard that shot is a NEW feature of the offense. Great addition. Props to the coaches and props to LT. Have to love what the guy brings.