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View Full Version : Will NC State retain Sidney Lowe?



CameronDuke
02-13-2010, 05:46 PM
It looks like NC State is heading to another loss today to UNC to fall to 2-10 in the ACC. Is it time for NC State to get another coach in Raleigh that can actually win on a consistent basis? I think Lowe is done after this year. Any thoughts?

Here are his records since taking the helm in 2006:

2006-2007: 20-16 overall and 5-11 in ACC (NIT)
2007-2008: 15-16 overall and 4-12 in ACC
2008-2009: 16-14 overall and 6-10 in ACC
2009-2010: 14-12 overall and 2-10 in ACC so far

They won't make the NIT or NCAA Tournament this year so that is one NIT appearance in 4 years for Lowe. How long does NC State want to give him to start a program, a program that went to the NCAA Tournament 5 consecutive years under Herb Sendek from 2001-2002 through 2005-2006? A program that has won two national championships as well...

NC State screwed up BIG TIME when they cut Sendek and hired Lowe. He is in over his head and it shows with NC State's awful play.

CameronBornAndBred
02-13-2010, 05:49 PM
I'd say ask again after this game. If he can't beat this team now, he is gone. If he wins, he is back on probation.

jimsumner
02-13-2010, 05:58 PM
State didn't cut Sendek.

It's Sidney.

It's no secret that Lowe wasn't State's top choice. Or even second. He had a pretty steep learning curve coming in.


He's got some studs arriving next year. He'll be back. But next year will most likely be a make-or-break-season for Lowe. He has to show significant progress.

sagegrouse
02-13-2010, 06:00 PM
I think he will get a fifth year, for sure. although, no doubt, there will be some grumbling.

sagegrouse

CameronDuke
02-13-2010, 06:03 PM
So since NC State didn't cut Sendek, I'm assuming he cut them? Thought ASU was a notch up on NCSU? Insight?

NCSU just lost again, dropping them to 2-10 in the ACC and getting swept by a UNC team having one of their worst seasons in recent memory. I just don't see how he gets brought back next year, but if you say he has some studs coming in, I guess they might give him a shot. Still, he is WAY in over his head.

calltheobvious
02-13-2010, 06:08 PM
Tough to see how he saves his job after his team quit today.

AlaskanAssassin
02-13-2010, 06:12 PM
I think he'll get one more year. He has a pretty good recruiting class coming in. Ryan Harrow is solid.

natedog4ever
02-13-2010, 06:20 PM
Most big State supporters want AD Lee Fowler gone first. There have been some pretty eye-opening statistics floating around regarding the athletic program there. They haven't won anything in years, save for something like a conference air-rifle championship a few years ago. Taking the athletics program as a whole, they are definitely near the bottom of Div-I. They've got big problems.

CameronDuke
02-13-2010, 06:26 PM
Yeah, the big revenue Olympic sports have left lots to be desired recently. Basketball has been down, football has been down, and baseball has been down (25-31 last year). Maybe their women's programs have had some success recently, I honestly don't pay women's sports much attention but I don't think they are a traditional powerhouse in women's basketball either. Lots to be desired for in athletics down in Raleigh in my opinion...

CameronBornAndBred
02-13-2010, 06:31 PM
If the athletic department wants to save any face they will cut him right after the ACC tourney. (Which they won't win) They have had too many bad fires/hires (in all sports) for Sidney to hang around too long. The buzz before this season was that he recruited well enough to help the team, and it didn't happen. There will be no change with the new recruits. This is not Lowe's game to coach, even though he was a good player.

jimsumner
02-13-2010, 06:40 PM
"NC State screwed up BIG TIME when they cut Sendek and hired Lowe. He is in over his head and it shows with NC State's awful play."

This implies that State fired Sendek. State did not fire Sendek. He quit, in part because of a whiny fan-base that couldn't accept that Sendek wasn't Mike Krzyzewski or Roy Williams. State went after folks like Rick Barnes, John Calipari and Jay Wright and came up empty.

Believe me or not but I know what I'm talking about here. Sidney Lowe will not be fired following this season.

And yes, lots of State folks are unhappy with their current AD. With some justification.

CameronDuke
02-13-2010, 06:45 PM
NCSU loses a lot of my respect for running out a class guy and great coach in Herb Sendek because of a "whiny fanbase." The guy can flat out coach, and though he is not K or Roy, he is a heck of a lot better than Sydney Lowe.

If you are right and Lowe isn't fired after the season, NCSU will struggle for another year. The guy seems nice and was a great player, but the whole wins and losses thing as a coach evidently isn't clicking with him. They are a pitiful team. I don't know how they beat Duke other than thinking of the saying, "One blind squirrel finds a but every now and again."

RoyalBlue08
02-13-2010, 06:46 PM
What I can never understand is why this "whiny fan-base" can turn on such a successful coach as Sendek, but seemingly keeps giving Lowe a pass as he finishes at the bottom year after year. All of the state fans I know are focused on the AD, as has been mentioned, but that doesn't change the fact that they once had a good basketball coach and now they do not.

CameronDuke
02-13-2010, 06:55 PM
What I can never understand is why this "whiny fan-base" can turn on such a successful coach as Sendek, but seemingly keeps giving Lowe a pass as he finishes at the bottom year after year. All of the state fans I know are focused on the AD, as has been mentioned, but that doesn't change the fact that they once had a good basketball coach and now they do not.

What this person said.

Rogue
02-13-2010, 07:05 PM
I think he's done.
When you think how many they tried to hire last time,, and settled on Sydney Lowe.. I fear they'll have difficulty hiring a named coach,, they will have to probably go the "top assistant" route this time.. IMHO..

State fans are not happy with anything at NCSU.. over the last 5-10 yrs they've been asked to "Put up" big $$$$ 's.. they've done so.. football, basketball etc.. now they're sick and tired of the excuses and let's face it,, they aren't good at anything.

pbc2
02-13-2010, 07:33 PM
Jim is right here, they're going to give him next year. Sid's been pointing to next year's recruiting class for awhile now. I would think they'd have to make the NCAA tournament next year for Sid to stay.

I don't see Fowler holding onto his job much longer, though.

GODUKEGO
02-13-2010, 09:09 PM
I sure hope they do not fire him after next year. The News & Observer stated today that he will be back next year. As long as State has him as coach that is another ACC team that we will never have to worry about. He is 17-41 versus ACC teams in his time. Any other coach would be long gone. He must have pictures of someone!!!

77devil
02-13-2010, 09:23 PM
State went after folks like Rick Barnes, John Calipari and Jay Wright and came up empty.

Even the thought of Calipari coaching in the ACC makes me want to take a shower. On the other hand, watching him face Coach K on a regular basis might be worth it.

Bob Green
02-13-2010, 09:29 PM
Believe me or not but I know what I'm talking about here. Sidney Lowe will not be fired following this season.

I definitely believe you and I also believe Sidney Lowe deserves another year at the helm. It would be premature to fire Lowe after this season. N.C. State fans are going to have to be patient, which isn't exactly their strong suit.

Newton_14
02-13-2010, 09:53 PM
I agree with Jim. Lowe will be back next year. Fowler is already on record stating he will not fire Lowe this year. The key difference in next year's class from this year's is that he brings in a really good PG next year. That position has killed them every since his 2nd season.

Their guards are just really weak. Which makes our loss to them hurt that much more. We now see that was just a "lightning in a bottle" game that State is not capable of reproducing. As bad as Unc-ch's perimeter players are, State's are even worse.

If next year's class proves to be as good as advertised, and he can get them above .500 in conference and show major progress it will save his job. However, if next year is a repeat of this year, I think he is gone.

theAlaskanBear
02-13-2010, 10:21 PM
Yeah, State needs to overhaul their BB program. Lowe has had 4 years to establish a reputation, and while I can understand a 5th year, he had better put up results and not just a mediocre couple win improvement. The fact that they rolled over to Chapel Hill when they should have been licking their chops says a lot. He's had three years to bring in "his" players.

I think State is still an appealing school, and can get a good coach.

Kewlswim
02-13-2010, 10:30 PM
Hi,

Coach Lowe has not had even close to the caliber of players the Devils or Tar Heels have had. It is hard to expect better results with overall less-talented players. They did show some fight against Duke this year. I am bummed we don't get to play them (as well as Wake) twice each year, but I digress. Give Coach Lowe another year, see what he can do with these new recruits. I have a feeling he loses his job next year; goes to be an assistant somewhere; gets a head coaching job somewhere else and does really well. This will leave the State folks even more frustrated when all is said and done.

GO DUKE!

Acymetric
02-13-2010, 11:03 PM
Hi,

Coach Lowe has not had even close to the caliber of players the Devils or Tar Heels have had. It is hard to expect better results with overall less-talented players. They did show some fight against Duke this year. I am bummed we don't get to play them (as well as Wake) twice each year, but I digress. Give Coach Lowe another year, see what he can do with these new recruits. I have a feeling he loses his job next year; goes to be an assistant somewhere; gets a head coaching job somewhere else and does really well. This will leave the State folks even more frustrated when all is said and done.

GO DUKE!

Really? I'm not so sure he's going to do "really well" anywhere. If he does, I think it'll start with an improvement next year and continue with staying at State. If your own alma mater doesn't think you're good enough who will? Also, as far as players he has, at this point thats almost entirely a function of his own recruiting. If he can't get it done on the recruiting front then he won't be a good coach at any major school, but could succeed at a mid major school, or in the NBA where he doesn't have to recruit.

That said, lets see how his freshman class next year looks. We can blame not getting top recruits on being new up to a point, but by the fifth year there aren't really any excuses for not recruiting or performing at an acceptable level.

scottdude8
02-13-2010, 11:11 PM
I covered the game at N.C. State for The Chronicle and talked to a few of their reporters, all of which made it seem like Lowe's job was never in jeopardy in the first place. They've had a better than expected year, considering they were picked to finish last in the conference, and they have a stud recruiting class coming in next year that they wouldn't want to jeopardize. I highly, HIGHLY doubt he's fired.

Kewlswim
02-13-2010, 11:20 PM
Really? I'm not so sure he's going to do "really well" anywhere. If he does, I think it'll start with an improvement next year and continue with staying at State. If your own alma mater doesn't think you're good enough who will? Also, as far as players he has, at this point thats almost entirely a function of his own recruiting. If he can't get it done on the recruiting front then he won't be a good coach at any major school, but could succeed at a mid major school, or in the NBA where he doesn't have to recruit.

That said, lets see how his freshman class next year looks. We can blame not getting top recruits on being new up to a point, but by the fifth year there aren't really any excuses for not recruiting or performing at an acceptable level.

Hi,

I feel Syd's problem is partly due to not having enough years being mentored--for example Johnny Dawkins had a number of years learning to be a head coach. Your points are very valid, let's see what happens.

GO DUKE!

Grey Devil
02-14-2010, 12:04 AM
I sure hope they do not fire him after next year. The News & Observer stated today that he will be back next year. As long as State has him as coach that is another ACC team that we will never have to worry about. He is 17-41 versus ACC teams in his time. Any other coach would be long gone. He must have pictures of someone!!!

...State was a team that we should have worried about a bit more this year.

Grey Devil

(not that I'm saying anything about Lowe's ability as a coach, only that not worrying about any team in the ACC can cost you -- especially when playing them in their arena)

Chris4UNC
02-14-2010, 03:25 AM
I agree. He may be fine for Div. II. It looks like he will stay at least another year. I heard that he got a "vote of confidence" from N.C. State's AD.

Chris4UNC
02-14-2010, 03:27 AM
at this point thats almost entirely a function of his own recruiting. AMEN!

GODUKEGO
02-14-2010, 08:25 AM
...State was a team that we should have worried about a bit more this year.

Grey Devil

(not that I'm saying anything about Lowe's ability as a coach, only that not worrying about any team in the ACC can cost you -- especially when playing them in their arena)

Not sure but I think we are in first place and they are in last. As long as they get one or two wins in the conference against us or the Heels or Wake , they get excited and hope reins. Someone ealier said "He doesn't have the talent" Isn't part of college coaching, recruiting. He has had 4 years and his ACC record is 17-42. Keep Lowe!!!

miramar
02-14-2010, 10:01 AM
"NC State screwed up BIG TIME when they cut Sendek and hired Lowe. He is in over his head and it shows with NC State's awful play."

This implies that State fired Sendek. State did not fire Sendek. He quit, in part because of a whiny fan-base that couldn't accept that Sendek wasn't Mike Krzyzewski or Roy Williams. State went after folks like Rick Barnes, John Calipari and Jay Wright and came up empty.

Believe me or not but I know what I'm talking about here. Sidney Lowe will not be fired following this season.

And yes, lots of State folks are unhappy with their current AD. With some justification.

I have no doubt Jim's right, but the problem that I see is in State having gone after people like Barnes, Calipari, and Wright in the first place. State seemed to think that they weren't that far gone from the good ol' days, and that Sendek was a problem rather than a solution. Considering that they are no longer a big-time team, they should have looked for some young up and comers so that they wouldn't have failed and settled for Lowe. Sidney is hardly the next Valvano.

throatybeard
02-14-2010, 11:07 AM
I sure hope they do not fire him after next year. The News & Observer stated today that he will be back next year. As long as State has him as coach that is another ACC team that we will never have to worry about.

You mean like when they beat our butts by double digits just last month?

blueprofessor
02-14-2010, 11:50 AM
Most big State supporters want AD Lee Fowler gone first. There have been some pretty eye-opening statistics floating around regarding the athletic program there. They haven't won anything in years, save for something like a conference air-rifle championship a few years ago. Taking the athletics program as a whole, they are definitely near the bottom of Div-I. They've got big problems.

NC State's Directors' Cup standing:
2007--08 NCS--56
Hawaii--53

2008-09 NCS-- 74
Yale --70
Kansas--72
Harvard--73


2009-10 after fall NCS--85
Harvard--58
GA Tech--63
Georgetown--94
While poor, NCS's standing is over two-- hundred places ahead of last.
Best regards--Blue Prof:)

jimsumner
02-14-2010, 12:04 PM
Miramar is on track here. State had a great hoops run starting with the arrival of Everett Case in 1946. Case elevated basketball in the area, forcing rivals to bring in people like Frank McGuire, Vic Bubas and Bones McKinney to play catch-up. Norm Sloan put together what might be the best team in ACC history and State was roughly equal to Duke and Carolina for most of the 1980s.

So, much of the State fan base felt--still feels--that just making the NCAA Tournament every year, with the occasional Sweet Sixteen thrown in--wasn't good enough. So, even though Sendek left of his own accord, a surprisingly large portion of the State fan base felt "good riddance."

A word on Sendek. He's a very bright guy and can be wonderful in small-group-settings. But in large-group settings, he could be charisma-challenged. He's not a schmoozer, not a butt-kisser. Plus, his Princeton-style offense didn't always get the hearts racing.

So, State thought they could do better, indeed should do better. Why not Barnes, a North Carolina native who surely was chomping at the bits to return to Tobacco Road and do battle daily with Coach K and good 'ole Roy? So, there was some delusion at work. Still, you can't blame State for aiming high.

When Lowe was hired, there was a lot of head-scratching in the non-aligned world. Make no mistake, Lowe was one of the best PGs in ACC history, a smart guy who was tutored by Morgan Wooten in high school and Jim Valvano in college. He knows his way around a clipboard. But he had been in the NBA for a quarter-century and knew nothing about recruiting and not much more about stroking the egos of 19-year-olds, their parents, the Wolfpack Club and a lot of other players who like to have their egos stroked.

He lost much of his incoming recruiting classes--did you know Chris Wright was heading for Raleigh--, had major chemistry issues, saw his best recruit go NBA after a year, and his second-best recruit (Lorenzo Brown) not qualify. Brown will show up next year.

Most perplexingly, for a staff that also includes Monte Towe, is an inability to recruit a top-level point guard. The nation's top prep PG last year lived almost within walking distance of the State campus but said no thanks. John Wall didn't think Sidney Lowe could get him to the NBA? Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Lowe finally has his point guard coming in next season--Ryan Harrow. Luke Cothron is a soft verbal and State is in the hunt for C.J. Leslie. State was hit in the face a bit when they couldn't get sniffs from the big-timers last time the job was vacant, so maybe they don't relish trying again so soon. Competing against K and the Heels may not be all that exciting a career challenge.

But the decision has been made to give Lowe a shot next year. Horner and Degand are the only seniors, Tracy Smith is pretty darn good, Wood and Howell look like keepers, and Brown, Harrow, maybe Cothron, maybe Leslie, will give State a talent infusion. Make no mistake. The pressure will be on Lowe next year. .500 in the ACC or he's likely looking for a new job. But he will be given the chance.

natedog4ever
02-14-2010, 12:19 PM
NC State's Directors' Cup standing:

While poor, NCS's standing is over two-- hundred places ahead of last.
Best regards--Blue Prof:)

Yeah, I should have said "near the bottom of Div-I schools with meaningful or significant athletic programs".

The fact is that large state schools like UNC or NC State have endless resources at their disposal and support from big alumni booster groups to make things happen.

Bottom line, both programs should be mentioned in the same breath with Florida, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas. Neither one has ever achieved that and I don't know if they will, but Sate is definitely in last place in that regard.

Thanks for the Director's cup stats.

Olympic Fan
02-14-2010, 12:41 PM
I think Jim has offered a good summary of State's predicament -- and future.

Let me add, I love Ryan Harrow at the point -- he's small, but he's a jet. Pictuure Tyrel McIntyre ... or Ish Smith with a deadly jump shot. Lorenzo Brown is a quality wing guard -- he's got size, strength and great athleticism.

Harrow and Brown will comprise a quality ACC basketcourt. Maybe they won't dominate as freshmen, but if they stick together a couple of years, I think they will be one of the best backcourts in college basketball.

The Cothran/Leslie dynamic is interesting. Leslie is the better prospect -- a spectacular wing forward -- but like Wall (he played with Wall in HS), he's wary of State's program (being that close, they could see what a mess it is). Still, Leslie is very close to Harrow, who is trying to lure him to Raleigh.

The problem is that if Leslie comes, Luke Cothran, a top 50 combo forward, almost certainly will not go to Raleigh. What I hear is that he doesn't want to play with Leslie -- so the likelihood is that State adds either Cothran or Leslie, but not both.

Either way, State will be decent up front next season with Tracy Smith, Scott Wood and Richard Howell ... with Painter and the big Aussie as backups. They'll have Gonzales and Mays in the backcourt and CJ Williams on the wing as reserves.

Like Jim, I'm hearing that Sidney will definitely get next season to prove himself. He doesn't have to win the ACC, but he needs to show significant progress next season to earn a sixth year -- it's not written down, but I can't imagine that anything less than an NCAA bid would save him.

Not all State fans are happy with the situation. But as noted, most of their ire is directed at AD Lee Fowler. He might be gone after this season and a new AD could change things, although it's hard to see a new guy pulling the trigger right away on Sidney.

PS Georgia Tech has now lost 3 of the last 4 (barely beating State in Atlanta to avoid a four-game losing streak). While their record and RPI are still okay (heck, they were in the top 25 last week), they are sinking fast. They still have games at Maryland and at Clemson. They probably sneak into the NCAA if they can protect their homecourt (UNC, BC and Va Tech come to Atlanta), but what if they don't? If Hewitt misses the NCAA with this team, can he survive -- especially with Lawal, Favors and maybe Shumpert all jumping to the NBA after this season???

JasonEvans
02-14-2010, 01:38 PM
PS Georgia Tech has now lost 3 of the last 4 (barely beating State in Atlanta to avoid a four-game losing streak). While their record and RPI are still okay (heck, they were in the top 25 last week), they are sinking fast. They still have games at Maryland and at Clemson. They probably sneak into the NCAA if they can protect their homecourt (UNC, BC and Va Tech come to Atlanta), but what if they don't? If Hewitt misses the NCAA with this team, can he survive -- especially with Lawal, Favors and maybe Shumpert all jumping to the NBA after this season???

If they fail to reach the NCAA, the only way I could imagine Hewitt coming back would be if Favors and Shumpert said they would only come back to school if Hewitt stuck around.

Heck, even then I am not sure Hewitt sticks around. The grumbling about him has always been tempered with the expectation that this year would be a strong one for Tech. Falling in the middle-of-the-pack in the ACC and missing the NCAAs would probably seal Hewitt's fate. Losing the annual matchup to woeful Georgia does not help either.

After a great class this year, his recruiting for next year so far consists of only Jason Morris, a top 100 SF. I think the uncertainty about Hewitt's future is dogging recruiting.

And that is why schools like Tech and NCState need to pull the trigger quicker not slower. A coach who is twisting in the wind with an uncertain fate is bad for recruiting.

-Jason "sorry to divert from the Lowe discussion" Evans

jimsumner
02-14-2010, 01:52 PM
If GT doesn't turn it around, then we can have a big thread about Hewitt's long-term prospects. Because not making the NCAAs with this roster would put him on seriously thin ice.

But I suspect they'll pile up enough wins to go dancing.

alteran
02-14-2010, 02:07 PM
I sure hope they do not fire him after next year. The News & Observer stated today that he will be back next year. As long as State has him as coach that is another ACC team that we will never have to worry about.

And it's a team that UNC will not have to worry about TWICE a year. Stupid uneven schedule.