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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 77, Maryland 56 Post-Game Thread



Jumbo
02-13-2010, 02:01 PM
Discuss. Rejoice. Zoubek.

GoingFor#5
02-13-2010, 02:02 PM
Good game by Shaq....er, I mean Zoubek!

CameronDuke
02-13-2010, 02:02 PM
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. No complaints here.

BEAT DOWN.

LET'S GO DUKE.

EKU1969
02-13-2010, 02:03 PM
Savor!

RoyalBlue08
02-13-2010, 02:03 PM
I am so glad the guys came with such a strong effort today on Coach K's day. That was just a lot of fun to watch.

DevilHorns
02-13-2010, 02:03 PM
I want Jay Bilas to eat his words! Thats the only thing thats been eating me today.

The performance was amazing. I have no idea how Maryland beat UNC. They have absolutely zero inside presence.

CDu
02-13-2010, 02:04 PM
Great defense by Smith (and company) on Vazquez in the first half. And just a great first half all around from the bigs. They had 19 and 11 at the half. Of course, in the second half, it was all about Zoubek. I think he had a double double in the second half alone!

What a great win. Our bigs absolutely brought it. And I'm so happy for Zoubek. This was easily the best game of his career. He was a man today.

Lord Ash
02-13-2010, 02:04 PM
The most satisfying game of the year; fun to watch, from start to finish, with none of the angst and all that seems to accompany watching basketball.

Jon is amazing. Some FANTASTIC shots, and great D.

GREAT D down low on the driver by Singler. His D was the best I've seen this year.

Loved seeing the Plumlees together... glad Coach K reads the forums!:) They are so athletic that even when one makes a defensive mistake, the other can step up to help. Glad Mason didn't tear down the backboard!

Nice to hang one on Maryland... their fans were SO amped up and ready and thinking they would win... fun to read the absolute meltdown of the least classy fans in sports.

Brian Zoubek! Holy cow... with a dunk at that! SO wanted him to shoot a three, just to see what happens:)



And, of course, happy b-day to the best coach in the country, and a damn fine teacher and man at that. Glad we've got K.

Jumbo
02-13-2010, 02:07 PM
I want Jay Bilas to eat his words! Thats the only thing thats been eating me today.

The performance was amazing. I have no idea how Maryland beat UNC. They have absolutely zero inside presence.

Why anyone cares which team an analyst picks continues to amaze me. Who cares that Jay Bilas picked Maryland to win? He thought they'd win. They didn't. Big deal. Move on.

ice-9
02-13-2010, 02:07 PM
Incredible game -- fitting for Coach K's 1000th game at Duke!

Zoubek, what a man he was tonight. 17 rebounds. 17 rebounds?? Are you kidding me! Where has he been all this time?? If he continues to play this way, I want to change my vote on how far I think this team can realistlcally go in the NCAA tourney. Championship all the way baby!

Scheyer had an outstanding game with 22 points on 6-12 shooting, some 3-pointers and some amazing lay-ups.

Nolan didn't shoot a high percentage but dished out 6 assists to only 1 turnover.

Singler also didn't shoot a high percentage but had 6 rebounds and played great defense on Vasquez.

Our other post players -- Lance, Mason and Miles -- were all excellent with 13 points, 10 rebounds and 3 assists.

A most impressive win.

The only thing that could've been better is if Dawkins had gotten some of his mojo back. Given Nolan was in a bit of foul trouble, it would've been great to have had Dawkins go off.

jpfrizzle
02-13-2010, 02:07 PM
It looked like the Turps all ate cheeseburgers before the game, probably Mickey D's gnomesayin?

Oriole Way
02-13-2010, 02:08 PM
Zoubek was an absolute beast. He seemed to have a lot more lift today than we've seen in a couple years, allowing him to make the putback dunk. Hopefully we can see more of that the rest of the way. I hope Zoubs starts getting some benefit of the doubt from referees from now, perhaps today was the start of that.

I have no problem with Mason and Miles coming off the bench as long as they get most of their minutes playing together. If Lance Thomas is going to continue to start, might as well be with Zoubek, who certainly earned another start or two with his performance today.

Singler's shot selection was a little better, and he posted up a few times effectively, so hopefully he continues to get healthier and more comfortable playing the 3.

I would like to see this kind of effort translate better on the road. The game @ MD should be a good measuring stick to see where the team is at.

sagegrouse
02-13-2010, 02:08 PM
Wow! I'd like to bottle some of this and take it on the road.

Do you think K had a pep talk for Zoubs before the game? I wonder what he said?

Interesting tutorial on college hoops. Half court defense can be suffocating, like Duke's was today, but when a team like Maryland gets the ball in the open court, they can be almost impossible to stop.

sagegrouse

dukelifer
02-13-2010, 02:09 PM
This team plays really well at home- just wish they could bottle their confidence for the road. So great for Zoubek to have a game like this in his senior season. The kid has played his heart out through injuries his whole career- but never had this kind of game against a solid opponent. Nice to see Thomas play well today. Jon was his solid great self. All in all, a very dominant win. Get some rest- you deserve it.

cruxer
02-13-2010, 02:10 PM
Love to see Zoubs play like a 7'1" center today. He really matches up well with the tortoises and I think he plays more confidently against them. IMHO he could have more games like this one. Well maybe not quite like this one...... ;)

-c

roywhite
02-13-2010, 02:10 PM
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. No complaints here.

BEAT DOWN.

LET'S GO DUKE.

No... "We have no inside game, in terms of big men with go to moves in the post, and when we shoot partially open layups, we miss them." ?

No prediction of going 1-5 in remaining conference games?

Bluedevil114
02-13-2010, 02:10 PM
I want Jay Bilas to eat his words! Thats the only thing thats been eating me today.

The performance was amazing. I have no idea how Maryland beat UNC. They have absolutely zero inside presence.

They beat UNC because Vasquez and Hayes could not miss from 3 point land. UNC could not hit from outside so it got away from them. Thank goodness Maryland could not hit the 12 foot baseline jumper today.

GoingFor#5
02-13-2010, 02:11 PM
Why anyone cares which team an analyst picks continues to amaze me. Who cares that Jay Bilas picked Maryland to win? He thought they'd win. They didn't. Big deal. Move on.

Well, I think we care about Bilas cause he's an alum who CONSTANTLY picks against Duke. I mean, picking against Duke at home after we just picked up 2 good road wins. Bilas never ceases to amaze me with his picks.

roywhite
02-13-2010, 02:11 PM
Why anyone cares which team an analyst picks continues to amaze me. Who cares that Jay Bilas picked Maryland to win? He thought they'd win. They didn't. Big deal. Move on.

Yeah, great predictions by Hubert Davis and Jay Bilas.

Wrong by a bunch.

roywhite
02-13-2010, 02:12 PM
They beat UNC because Vasquez and Hayes could not miss from 3 point land. UNC could not hit from outside so it got away from them. Thank goodness Maryland could not hit the 12 foot baseline jumper today.

Funny how many good teams have very low point games against Duke's defense.

dairedevil
02-13-2010, 02:13 PM
What fun! Remember what hope you had when you first knew that we had a 7'1'' guy coming? Seeing Zoubek play like the center I had envisioned was a delight. Seems like he usually has more fouls than points...hope that this can keep up, along with development of the younger guys. Could make the rest of this season exciting.

Saratoga2
02-13-2010, 02:14 PM
Zoubek had the size advantage and used it to the maximum. That was easily his best game for Duke. Not only was his scoring and rebounding a great help to the team, but his defense and positioning were superior as well. He disrupted Maryland inside totally.

Great game by Scheyer and Singler as well. Gutsy performance by Lance as he was hobbling during the later stages of the match. The defense was good throughout with perhaps the exception of our guards getting back on defense following a missed shot or free throw. Mason also jogged back on one possession and was too late to make a block. Not really noticed much when you are leading, but should be corrected.

Great overall game and now Duke has a definite lead in the ACC.

jv001
02-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Yeah, great predictions by Hubert Davis and Jay Bilas.

Wrong by a bunch.

Yeh but hubert is a tarhole..Jay is a Duke guy...Come on Jay..But if he felt that the twerps were going to prevail. That's ok..He just doesn't know as much about this squad playing at CIS..Still love the guy..Go Duke!

Jumbo
02-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Well, I think we care about Bilas cause he's an alum who CONSTANTLY picks against Duke. I mean, picking against Duke at home after we just picked up 2 good road wins. Bilas never ceases to amaze me with his picks.

He picked Duke to win at Clemson, live from Clemson. Seriously, give it up. The guy is a pro and great at his job.

JDev
02-13-2010, 02:15 PM
Duke's halfcourt defense was as good as it has been all year. This is a UM team that had been getting around 80 a game this year. In particular, they did a terrific job on Vasquez. Nolan was great on him, but it was clearly a team effort. Duke has smart basketball players, and they were aware of where he was at all times and in good position to help on or slow him. They knew he was the one guy on UM's team that can take the game over, and they made sure he was not able to do that. Even that little spurt he had where he scored 7 straight was not near enough to get them going. I think he ended with 17, but close to half of those came somewhat late and were inconsequential. Great defense today.

DukieInBrasil
02-13-2010, 02:17 PM
Great game from Z, more of that please!!! just a monster game, but it was a perfect situation for him cuz MD's inside isn't very tall nor do they have super-athletic depth. I've been a big fan of Z all year and am glad to have finally been able to vote for him for MOTM. When he gets lots of minutes, good things are happening for the team this year.
Aside from Z, Jon had a (yaaaaaaawwwwwnnnnn) fantastic game, again. 22pts on 12 shots is awesome. Nolan struggled from the floor, but handed out 6 assists and still collected 14 pts. Kyle had a rather pedestrian game.
I'm a big fan of starting both Z and LT and bringing both Plumlees from the bench because they are so much more experienced and Miles, at least, has a tendancy to put hmself on the bench quickly with fouls. Maybe coming from the bench will help him learn the pace of each game first and play with more focus

GoingFor#5
02-13-2010, 02:18 PM
He picked Duke to win at Clemson, live from Clemson. Seriously, give it up. The guy is a pro and great at his job.

Well we can agree to disagree then cause I don't want to get into an argument after such a great win.

roywhite
02-13-2010, 02:19 PM
He picked Duke to win at Clemson, live from Clemson. Seriously, give it up. The guy is a pro and great at his job.

And majorly wrong here.

I'd prefer to celebrate Duke's win than to defend Jay Bilas's predictions.

CDu
02-13-2010, 02:20 PM
He picked Duke to win at Clemson, live from Clemson. Seriously, give it up. The guy is a pro and great at his job.

Completely agreed. And even if Bilas did never pick Duke, who cares? What does his opinion matter? We play the games, and we either win or lose. Bilas's (or any other commentator's) opinion is meaningless.

JBDuke
02-13-2010, 02:21 PM
Great game from Z, more of that please!!! just a monster game, but it was a perfect situation for him cuz MD's inside isn't very tall nor do they have super-athletic depth. I've been a big fan of Z all year and am glad to have finally been able to vote for him for MOTM. When he gets lots of minutes, good things are happening for the team this year.
Aside from Z, Jon had a (yaaaaaaawwwwwnnnnn) fantastic game, again. 22pts on 12 shots is awesome. Nolan struggled from the floor, but handed out 6 assists and still collected 14 pts. Kyle had a rather pedestrian game.
I'm a big fan of starting both Z and LT and bringing both Plumlees from the bench because they are so much more experienced and Miles, at least, has a tendancy to put hmself on the bench quickly with fouls. Maybe coming from the bench will help him learn the pace of each game first and play with more focus

Agree with your praise for Brian and Jon, but disagree with your assessment of Kyle's performance. I thought he did an exceptional job on defense, even if he still didn't shoot as well as we know he can. That block on the Maryland breakaway was Battier-esque.

Bluedevil114
02-13-2010, 02:22 PM
well we can agree to disagree then cause i don't want to get into an argument after such a great win.

who cares??? Most people picked the colts to win the superbowl. Duke wins big and we will continue to earn everyones respect. Bilas is good at what he does and if he picks duke every game he will look like a homer.

Enjoy the big win and drop the bilas pick.

Go duke!!

BleedsP287
02-13-2010, 02:22 PM
Way to step up Zoubek! Duke is becoming a well oiled machine and the bigs are stepping up. Nice win fellas. If we can keep this up, we're going to go deep in the tourney this year. Fun fun.

OldSchool
02-13-2010, 02:22 PM
Some great moments today for Duke fans.

-- Lance starting and playing heavy minutes. He must have been playing through some major pain. That guy is a warrior and a leader. And knocking down jump shots!

-- Brian decided he was going to rule the rim today. I think having the Plumlees around has energized him. Snatching a ball from above the rim and dunking it was an amazing sight.

-- Jon controlled the game offensively and played outstanding defense.

-- Kyle is so key for this team, no matter what his stats, he is in the middle of the action making a play.

-- Miles hitting a smooth 12-foot jump shot.

-- Mason with his patented reverse dunk. He managed to resist slapping the blackboard this time!

-- Nolan with a solid game on both offense and defense.

A lot to like in this game.

Oriole Way
02-13-2010, 02:24 PM
Funny how many good teams have very low point games against Duke's defense.

At home, yes. But the key is to play better on both sides of the ball on the road, and on neutral courts against better competition (in general) than we faced on neutral floors in the pre-conference season.

-bdbd
02-13-2010, 02:25 PM
Funny how many good teams have very low point games against Duke's defense.

On the boards late yesterday we had us a trash-talking terper, "General Grieves." We prominently invited him back to "talk" with us AFTER the game. He accepted, but has anybody seen the General??? The watch is on....

Zoubs was incredible. Every senior deserves a game like today! Let's hope this game gives him lots of confidence down the stretch. We could really use his "presence" in there in March!! (He really affected quite a few shots today, beyond just the blocks and rebounds and points.)

:D:D:D

ZOU - BEK! ZOU - BEK! ZOU - BEK! ZOU - BEK! ZOU - BEK! ZOU - BEK! ZOU - BEK! ZOU - BEK! ZOU - BEK! ZOU - BEK! ZOU - BEK! ZOU - BEK!

roywhite
02-13-2010, 02:26 PM
Zoubs on the postgame with Bob Harris...

Sounds jubilant..."I'm exhausted"...part of the gameplan was to take Greivis and Milbourne out of their game...looking forward to heading south for Miami game.

cspan37421
02-13-2010, 02:28 PM
Great win (let me say that 10x so no one thinks I'm harping on imperfections) - but still room for improvement.

MD got a few buckets in fast transition when we didn't get back on defense (I think at least 3 in the first half; 2nd half, GV did make some toughies that we mostly got back to contest). That's fixable.

MD missed a lot of open shots - we can't count on that always happening. It wasn't that we defended the 3 so well today - even though we defend it pretty well overall.

Mason had another mix of flashes of brilliance with, um, fixable mistakes. One was an offensive foul followed by an apparent lane violation on a missed FT by MD, which turned into a made one (and then two).

Zoubek - what can you say. Our own Mountain Man. Kudos.
Willis Reed award to LT
Jon played great - though did he have a 5-second inbound call TO early on? Fixable. But his 3s, his driving layups, all great
Amazing defensive rebounding by our bigs. Did we give up an offensive rebound in the first half at all? It seemed like lights out rebounding.
Boy I'd hate to play for Gary Williams.

Kfanarmy
02-13-2010, 02:29 PM
Today MD looked a little like Duke has looked on the road in a couple of games. They missed several wide open 3s in the 1st half. If three or four had gone down, this would have been a back and forth game of runs in the 2nd. I think the interior play would have made the difference, and it is a great win but I would expect MD to make those shots at home.

What I thought best of Z's offensive performance this game was the decisiveness on the offensive end. He had a couple of posessions where he didn't hesitate at all, but went straight to the shot attempt. Great job.

Duke now has a lead in conference, and hopefully the confidence gained by the interior players the last three or four games will really build them for the NCAA tourney.

DukieInBrasil
02-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Agree with your praise for Brian and Jon, but disagree with your assessment of Kyle's performance. I thought he did an exceptional job on defense, even if he still didn't shoot as well as we know he can. That block on the Maryland breakaway was Battier-esque.

I certainly wasn't panning Kyle's performance, pedestrian = average. He shot poorly from the floor and scored well below his average. His rebounds and assists were below average too. So the fact that he played better than (his own) average defense brings the overall grade up to average (and remember Kye's average game is still pretty freakin good). I like Kyle's game and the effort is always there.

Onlyduke
02-13-2010, 02:33 PM
You couldn't have had a better birthday present today, Coach K ....... Happy Birthday! :D

Lord Ash
02-13-2010, 02:34 PM
You know, Zoubek did a very nice job at not bringing the ball down today; kept it up the whole time. Very nice to see. Plus, there was very little reaching in by the bigs, which basically never works... great job today.

And whoever thinks Singler played average was not watching the same game I did... his D was outstanding, really outstanding.

jipops
02-13-2010, 02:35 PM
I picked MD to win as well, so go ahead and throw grief my way. I don't care. Funny how fans only remember the picks Jay makes when he picks against us, making it seem like it happens with unusual frequency. This is not the case, but then again WHO CARES!?

An absolutely beautiful performance. Our defense was brilliant and we hit some shots! Zoubek in particular was a monster on the defense as well as other areas of the game. Z stuck to his position on the post and rotated perfectly on the drive. This was a brilliant game by an experienced senior.

Jon is a pro. His duel with Vasquez was a thing of beauty. I look forward to watching this game again on DVR, it's like watching a great movie a 2nd time.

jipops
02-13-2010, 02:36 PM
You know, Zoubek did a very nice job at not bringing the ball down today; kept it up the whole time. Very nice to see. Plus, there was very little reaching in by the bigs, which basically never works... great job today.

And whoever thinks Singler played average was not watching the same game I did... his D was outstanding, really outstanding.

Singler was a assigned to Vasquez for much of the game, especially the 1st half where Vasquez only managed something like 4 points. Kyle was great today.

Jackson
02-13-2010, 02:45 PM
I want Jay Bilas to eat his words! Thats the only thing thats been eating me today.

The performance was amazing. I have no idea how Maryland beat UNC. They have absolutely zero inside presence.

What did I miss? Did he (Bilas) pick the Twerps to win today?

Oriole Way
02-13-2010, 02:46 PM
I certainly wasn't panning Kyle's performance, pedestrian = average. He shot poorly from the floor and scored well below his average. His rebounds and assists were below average too. So the fact that he played better than (his own) average defense brings the overall grade up to average (and remember Kye's average game is still pretty freakin good). I like Kyle's game and the effort is always there.

Well, it's not like Kyle will ever be a major source of assists, that's just not what he does. And Zoubek was beasting all of the rebounds today, so that explains the rebounds being down.

Singler played great D on Vazquez, but I thought he played fine offensively as well. He posted up and scored at least twice in the first half and made a nice move along the baseline under the basket for a score when Duke really needed it, staving off Maryland's last big run. I like seeing Singler work in the post, and feel he needs to do more of that going forward. Today was a good step in terms of his post play. Singler also didn't force things too much with his shot, nor with his drive. Singler took and missed few 3's and jumpers when we were up big in the second, but at that point I don't mind it too much. He hit two very key 3's in the first half that were in rhythm and in the flow of the offense, and were a part of Duke building big leads.

Most importantly, Singler didn't drive into the lane without purpose like he had been just a couple weeks ago. He had one bad turnover in the second half which was just a mistake, but in the losses against NC State and Georgetown, Singler would have at least two drives into the lane which resulted in turnovers and transition scores for the other team.

I though Singler played very well today, and I hope he continues to work on his shot selection and decision-making.

Indoor66
02-13-2010, 02:50 PM
Great win (let me say that 10x so no one thinks I'm harping on imperfections) - but still room for improvement.

MD got a few buckets in fast transition when we didn't get back on defense (I think at least 3 in the first half; 2nd half, GV did make some toughies that we mostly got back to contest). That's fixable.

MD missed a lot of open shots - we can't count on that always happening. It wasn't that we defended the 3 so well today - even though we defend it pretty well overall.

Mason had another mix of flashes of brilliance with, um, fixable mistakes. One was an offensive foul followed by an apparent lane violation on a missed FT by MD, which turned into a made one (and then two).

Zoubek - what can you say. Our own Mountain Man. Kudos.
Willis Reed award to LT
Jon played great - though did he have a 5-second inbound call TO early on? Fixable. But his 3s, his driving layups, all great
Amazing defensive rebounding by our bigs. Did we give up an offensive rebound in the first half at all? It seemed like lights out rebounding.
Boy I'd hate to play for Gary Williams.

I surely would never give you a horse. All you would see is the need to muck the barn!

CDu
02-13-2010, 02:51 PM
Singler was a assigned to Vasquez for much of the game, especially the 1st half where Vasquez only managed something like 4 points. Kyle was great today.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Smith was the guy primarily assigned to Vazquez in the first half. Singler definitely got the assignment some of the game, but Smith was the guy with the assignment for the majority of the time.

BD80
02-13-2010, 02:52 PM
I understand that Coach K asks Z and the MPs to bring energy to the game when they get in, but usually they bring too much uncontrolled energy and make stupid plays.

Z has gotten better and better over his 4 years, culminating in today's game.

Hopefully, it won't take the MPs so long. Having Z as a mentor and a case study should be beneficial.

Miles and Mason do seem to feed off of each other, and they clearly are comfortable communicating with each other on the court, but today they really got swept up in the emotion and had 2 or 3 consecutive horrible possesions on defense. They kept creeping out looking to make a play or to hedge, and one or the other would fail to rotate leaving the baseline unguarded.

I wonder if Miles and Mason will do better in neutral venues, where their natural enthusiasm will allow them to bring the necessary energy and yet they won't be so hyped that they forget what the coaching staff told them just moments before.

This team has a lot of really good elements that seem to be coming together at the right time. It is almost like Coach K had a plan or something.

Still 7 more games and the ACC tourney for the MPs to mature and for the team to improve, plus 2 relatively easy NCAA games.

I like our chances.

roywhite
02-13-2010, 02:53 PM
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204886768

From the boxscore:

Milbourne was held to 2 points on 1-6 shooting
Duke won the rebounding 44-37
Duke won the turnover comparison; 14 for MD..only 7 for Duke
Duke got to the line more and shot 18-22 FT

Newton_14
02-13-2010, 02:56 PM
Mason had another mix of flashes of brilliance with, um, fixable mistakes. One was an offensive foul followed by an apparent lane violation on a missed FT by MD, which turned into a made one (and then two).


The lane violation on the missed front-end of the 1 and 1 was on Kyle not Mason.

I thought Mason played really well today. Showed good poise, made a nifty pass to Nolan for an easy 2, altered shots, and played better interior D. He had a bad pass to Miles, and got caught out of position on an inbounds play. But all in all I thought it was another step forward for him. All of the bigs made good contributions today. Really good game by the group.

Cockabeau
02-13-2010, 02:56 PM
What I find so offensive is that he picked MD AFTER Hubert Davis picked MD.

Jay looks silly sometimes trying very hard to look impartial.

Duke almost NEVER loses at home...

Indoor66
02-13-2010, 03:00 PM
What I find so offensive is that he picked MD AFTER Hubert Davis picked MD.

Jay looks silly sometimes trying very hard to look impartial.

Duke almost NEVER loses at home...

P l e a s e, give it a rest!

Dukeface88
02-13-2010, 03:00 PM
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204886768

From the boxscore:

Milbourne was held to 2 points on 1-6 shooting
Duke won the rebounding 44-37
Duke won the turnover comparison; 14 for MD..only 7 for Duke
Duke got to the line more and shot 18-22 FT

Did Scheyer really have only 1 assist? That's a little surprising.

loldevilz
02-13-2010, 03:02 PM
I have no problem with Mason and Miles coming off the bench as long as they get most of their minutes playing together. If Lance Thomas is going to continue to start, might as well be with Zoubek, who certainly earned another start or two with his performance today.

I prefer when Miles and Mason don't play together. Mason especially seems to play better when paired with Zoubek or Lance. Plus its good to match an experienced player with an inexperienced one to give them some help.

hq2
02-13-2010, 03:04 PM
We need Jay himself to weigh in on this (3 posts back). If we put enough posts about it, I think he may write something, like he did last year.

Nice to see our front line play well, but remember, Maryland is not Georgetown;
they do not have a very good front court. Still, encouraging play by all 4 bigs.
Who knows, maybe we'll be good enough to make an NCCA run after all!

The Gordog
02-13-2010, 03:07 PM
Why anyone cares which team an analyst picks continues to amaze me. Who cares that Jay Bilas picked Maryland to win? He thought they'd win. They didn't. Big deal. Move on.

I was in Bilas's class. So it seems personal. To me, he has no code, no heart. Who cares if he thinks MD has a chance. If he had a heart he would say something like, "As a Duke guy, my hopes go without saying, but I think MD will bring it today." That's the way J-Will says it and I respect him SO much more for being open about his feelings. Jay seems like a machine.

Oriole Way
02-13-2010, 03:09 PM
I prefer when Miles and Mason don't play together. Mason especially seems to play better when paired with Zoubek or Lance. Plus its good to match an experienced player with an inexperienced one to give them some help.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Mason and Miles played great together against Wake Forest, and then K went away from them (playing together) completely until the UNC game when the Thomas injury forced him to play them together again.

They have good chemistry together and they are always looking for each other. They are very aware of where the other is on the court, and where they like getting the ball. That is a result of playing together for so many years. In the UNC game, Mason quickly hit Miles with a pass and Miles confidently drained a bank shot. Right before that, they altered a UNC shot Duke secured the rebound, and Duke went on to score on the ensuing possession. It is very intimdating when you have two 6 foot 10+ high jumpers skying to block a shot simultaneously on defense, and it is discouraging for opponents when you have twin towers getting offensive rebounds and putbacks like we saw them do against Wake. That is just a preview of things to come as they get more extended minutes.

Lord Ash
02-13-2010, 03:11 PM
I was in Bilas's class. So it seems personal. To me, he has no code, no heart. Who cares if he thinks MD has a chance. If he had a heart he would say something like, "As a Duke guy, my hopes go without saying, but I think MD will bring it today." That's the way J-Will says it and I respect him SO much more for being open about his feelings. Jay seems like a machine.

Jay's job is to be a BASKETBALL ANALYST, not a Duke fan. Come on folks, you have GOT to get over this... Jay knows more about basketball than anyone here, likely cares more about Duke basketball than anyone here, and has done more for Duke basketball than anyone here. He is also a man with enough integrity that he understands that his JOB is different than his love for Duke.

Seriously, give it a rest folks... Jay can pick whatever team he wants to pick based on his experience and watching of basketball games. Best we can do is hope the team proves him wrong when he picks against Duke!

jv001
02-13-2010, 03:12 PM
Did Scheyer really have only 1 assist? That's a little surprising.

I knew he didn't have many. It looked like Jon was deferring to Nolan today to set up the offense. At least more than I've seen in the past. I think Nolan had 6 assists at one time today. Don't know how many he ended up with. Go Duke!

roywhite
02-13-2010, 03:15 PM
Jay's job is to be a BASKETBALL ANALYST, not a Duke fan. Come on folks, you have GOT to get over this... Jay knows more about basketball than anyone here, likely cares more about Duke basketball than anyone here, and has done more for Duke basketball than anyone here. He is also a man with enough integrity that he understands that his JOB is different than his love for Duke.

Seriously, give it a rest folks... Jay can pick whatever team he wants to pick based on his experience and watching of basketball games. Best we can do is hope the team proves him wrong when he picks against Duke!

We'll probably "get over it" when other posters "get over" questions about depth and lineup rotation.

Bilas's commentary is an issue to many who follow Duke Basketball. Just the way it is.

TNDukeFan
02-13-2010, 03:16 PM
Jay's job is to be a BASKETBALL ANALYST, not a Duke fan. Come on folks, you have GOT to get over this... Jay knows more about basketball than anyone here, likely cares more about Duke basketball than anyone here, and has done more for Duke basketball than anyone here. He is also a man with enough integrity that he understands that his JOB is different than his love for Duke.

Seriously, give it a rest folks... Jay can pick whatever team he wants to pick based on his experience and watching of basketball games. Best we can do is hope the team proves him wrong when he picks against Duke!

Amen. This anti-Bilas stuff veers perilously close to the brainless things you read in the comments on ESPN.com articles.

camion
02-13-2010, 03:20 PM
Amen. This anti-Bilas stuff veers perilously close to the brainless things you read in the comments on ESPN.com articles.
Agree.

Basketball analyst and Duke fan are not the same job. From all I have seen Jay is both, just not at the same time.

gumbomoop
02-13-2010, 03:20 PM
Why anyone cares which team an analyst picks continues to amaze me. Who cares that Jay Bilas picked Maryland to win? He thought they'd win. They didn't. Big deal. Move on.

Jumbo's new moniker reminds me of the Jeff Tweedy/Wilco song titile, "Impossible Germany, Unlikely Japan." Our genuinely splendid mod is intermittently impossibly irascible, yet unlikely cuddly [save, just perhaps, on Valentine's Day].

I confess that I was puzzled why Bilas and Hubert picked Md, and they should be feeling a bit sheepish just about now. I see no reason why a poster should be chastised overly for gloating re Bilas, but I do hope this thread doesn't degenerate into a pissing contest over Bilas's bona fides, nor into one of the too-frequent friendly-fire moments. [In this regard, I request, playfully, that Throatybeard edit his Pocket Reference to add a point 14k - how ironic - "Duck!"]

As to our performance, pretty impressive all-'round, with not much evidence of de-coding, nor exhaustion. I've been skeptical of Z sometimes, but if he plays from here on out with the passion and smarts he showed today, we're in high cotton. I thought I detected just the slightest of limps from LT near game's end, but I assume he'll have a painful knee for awhile. KS's blocks were impressive. And the "amazingly unathletic" JS made another move he cannot make, at roughly the 7:30 mark of 2d half. He cannot do that. Perhaps all the way to Indy.

cspan37421
02-13-2010, 03:24 PM
While some might think that ex-Duke players picking against Duke is being done to look "unbiased," I am pretty confident that's not the case with Jay Bilas. Bilas really understands the game and calls 'em as he sees them. Look, it just a few nights ago we were knotted at 45 deep into the second half against a bad UNC team. We've taken some thumpings (double-digit loss to last-place NCSU); and, hey, that stat sheet on the DBR Home Page "Next Up" article certainly made it look like this was anyone's game going into it.

Don't expect Jay B to be a Duke cheerleader. He takes his role as analyst seriously. When he thinks we'll win, he'll say so.

The Gordog
02-13-2010, 03:25 PM
Jay's job is to be a BASKETBALL ANALYST, not a Duke fan. Come on folks, you have GOT to get over this... Jay knows more about basketball than anyone here, likely cares more about Duke basketball than anyone here, and has done more for Duke basketball than anyone here. He is also a man with enough integrity that he understands that his JOB is different than his love for Duke.

Seriously, give it a rest folks... Jay can pick whatever team he wants to pick based on his experience and watching of basketball games. Best we can do is hope the team proves him wrong when he picks against Duke!

Umm, no.

I do not have to give it a rest.

I do not have a problem with him picking MD. I have a problem with the fact that he never acknowledges any feelings about the matter, He claims to care about Duke basketball, and maybe he does a lot that I don't know about, but on the air he acts like Duke is his red-headed stepchild. Seriously, he thinks MD is going to beat Duke at Careron, on K's birthday, on his 1000th game at Duke, with every retired jersey that's still alive in the building?!? OK that's stupid, but it's not what get's me. What get's me is that he seems to be afraid that people won't take him seriously if he picks Duke, or that he'll get teased by the Kerlina guys up there in CT.

SCMatt33
02-13-2010, 03:39 PM
I was impressed most by our responses to their runs. Up 22, they go on an 8-0 run, and we responded with a 6-0 run to bring it back to 20.

They then immediately went on a 10-0 run to cut it all the way to 10 pts, and we respond with a 13-1 run that brought it all the way back to 22 and they never got closer than 19.

Obviously a great job by Z and the big men. The Plumlees got a little wild during Maryland's runs. I'd be interested to see Jumbo's charting of this game in regards to the Plumlees.

mo.st.dukie
02-13-2010, 03:43 PM
While some might think that ex-Duke players picking against Duke is being done to look "unbiased," I am pretty confident that's not the case with Jay Bilas. Bilas really understands the game and calls 'em as he sees them. Look, it just a few nights ago we were knotted at 45 deep into the second half against a bad UNC team. We've taken some thumpings (double-digit loss to last-place NCSU); and, hey, that stat sheet on the DBR Home Page "Next Up" article certainly made it look like this was anyone's game going into it.


Here's the thing though, if you really have paid attention to Duke this year and not just listening to what people are saying you would know that Duke has been blowing the doors off people at home this year. You would also know that in the last 2 and a half seasons Duke has lost only 2 games in CIS (to 1 team unfortunately). So no matter how vulnerable we have looked on the road, no matter what you think our chances in March are this year you have to factor in the home court advantage.

Bilas had some good analysis before giving his prediction but the only explanation he had for MD winning was that they have shown toughness and guts this year. No mention of how Duke has played at home, no mention of our size vs. their size, and no real mention of how MD was going to match up with Singler and Smith. So while I don't really mind that he picked MD at least he could give me a better reason as to why he thought MD would win.

MChambers
02-13-2010, 03:46 PM
Duke blows out the second best team in the conference, Zoubs dominates, and you guys have nothing better to do than complain about Jay Bilas? Man.

He's the best analyst on ESPN and that should make you proud. So he picked Maryland today. Maybe he thought Duke was worn out, maybe he thought LT's injury would hurt Duke significantly. Whatever.

Get over it.

dukestheheat
02-13-2010, 03:48 PM
Umm, no.

I do not have to give it a rest.

I do not have a problem with him picking MD. I have a problem with the fact that he never acknowledges any feelings about the matter, He claims to care about Duke basketball, and maybe he does a lot that I don't know about, but on the air he acts like Duke is his red-headed stepchild. Seriously, he thinks MD is going to beat Duke at Careron, on K's birthday, on his 1000th game at Duke, with every retired jersey that's still alive in the building?!? OK that's stupid, but it's not what get's me. What get's me is that he seems to be afraid that people won't take him seriously if he picks Duke, or that he'll get teased by the Kerlina guys up there in CT.

.....because he's sensitive to the fact that fellow announcer Dick Vitale has made it clear for so long that he loves Duke (a lot) and in doing so, has lost respect and credibility with many viewers? Maybe Jay has made the decision that he's going to distance himself from Vitale and instead, try to be more objective and much less subjective in his analysis and projection.

dth.

Cockabeau
02-13-2010, 03:49 PM
The Jay Bilas is an analysis not a Duke Basketball fan doesnt hold water here.

The MD pick was Jay trying hard to look unbiased. Any basketball analyst who knows their craft,including Jay, knows that Duke doesn't lose in Cameron and picking against them looks beyond dumb. Jay Bilas is not dumb and the MD pick was him trying to look impartial

DevilHorns
02-13-2010, 03:54 PM
I dont want Jay Bilas to be a Duke cheerleader. I understand that its his job. But I honestly dont think he does his research all the time when picking against Duke. His article on ESPN didnt mention anything about Lance going out, or how he feels MD has the better matchups, or anything like that. He sort of just picks MD to pick Duke, or for the most part teams ranked below Duke to beat Duke (as long as they are a decent team). Can any of you honestly remember Jay picking Duke to beat a team ranked higher than Duke? Exactly. If a team seems formidable, as MD does, he gives them the nod. He didn't factor in any of the things that we as fans know matters---- the crowd, the inspiration for K's big day, etc. If this was away at MD, I would think its a more respectable pick.

I respect what Jay Bilas as an analyst, but he is the anti-Homer. J Will picked UConn to beat us, and I dont consider him an anti-Homer since he actually gave reasons. Bilas doesnt seem to do that. Listen to what he says.

I apologize for talking about this after a huge win. Im not posting on this subject anymore since I realize its a stupid thing to talk about after such a monstrous win. Great day for the good guys.

cruxer
02-13-2010, 03:55 PM
I hate watching Len Elmore call either Duke or UNC games because it's clear to me that he hates both top dogs from the ACC, an obvious carryover from his playing days. I don't need to know who Bilas wants to win, I'm pretty sure I know. His unbiased opinion of who he believes will win is more important, although, frankly, still not that important.

Anytime you go out on a limb with predictions, you'll be wrong a lot.

-c

cspan37421
02-13-2010, 03:56 PM
Here's the thing though, if you really have paid attention to Duke this year and not just listening to what people are saying you would know that Duke has been blowing the doors off people at home this year. You would also know that in the last 2 and a half seasons Duke has lost only 2 games in CIS (to 1 team unfortunately).

You err, and frankly you're rude, in assuming a) I don't know that stuff, and b) that I haven't paid attention to Duke this year, and c) that my own opinion is formed by "just listening to what people are saying."

Otherwise you make good points about Duke's strengths at home. But you might want to work on the delivery. Lay off the friendly fire, please.

sagegrouse
02-13-2010, 04:00 PM
Umm, no.

I do not have to give it a rest.

I do not have a problem with him picking MD. I have a problem with the fact that he never acknowledges any feelings about the matter, He claims to care about Duke basketball, and maybe he does a lot that I don't know about, but on the air he acts like Duke is his red-headed stepchild. Seriously, he thinks MD is going to beat Duke at Careron, on K's birthday, on his 1000th game at Duke, with every retired jersey that's still alive in the building?!? OK that's stupid, but it's not what get's me. What get's me is that he seems to be afraid that people won't take him seriously if he picks Duke, or that he'll get teased by the Kerlina guys up there in CT.

I guess I read the Bilas, Hubert Davis, Gottlieb, Jason Williams, etc. situation differently from you.

For example, I have one professional interest (economics) and one intense amateur interest (birding), and I have no trouble telling who are the real experts in the field when I am exposed to them

Similarly, the aforementioned announcers have made a lifetime of studying and playing basketball. I have no doubt that they have no problems abstracting from their former affiliations -- both in analyzing the action and in thinking ahead to a game between two teams. And they all probably know more about basketball than I do about economics or birds (but I can bore you to death if you have a few hours).

If you ask them to analyze an upcoming game, they would have a lot to say that was well thought out, and -- in Bilas's case -- exquisitely expressed. Now if you press them on who is gonna win, that's a different matter, but that's why they make the big bucks. They have to predict a winner. So they do.

I didn't see Bilas on his prediction of this game, but if there were several making predictions, then you have to recognize that the responses will be scripted by the producers, and certain announcers asked if they wouldn't mind taking the other side of the debate.

I don't know whether it happened in this instance, but there was a recent, really humorous interchange where Hubert Davis took the position that Wake, not Duke, was the best team in the ACC. Bilas and someone else were also involved. You can almost picture the producers saying, "Someone has to pick a team other than Duke." The other guys all look at UNC's Hubert and say, "Well?" Later in the program he recanted and said that he thought Duke was the best team in the ACC.

sagegrouse
'I agree BTW. Why should you give it a rest? You paid the greens fees; play all 18 holes.'

watzone
02-13-2010, 04:02 PM
http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/02/bdn-locker-room-report-coach-k-post-game-comments/ Coach K audio, Zoubs on the way. Great win in many, many ways. Still a ton of media here and the ex players up top partying a bit, especially Dennard;)

Lord Ash
02-13-2010, 04:06 PM
Umm, no.

I do not have to give it a rest.

I do not have a problem with him picking MD. I have a problem with the fact that he never acknowledges any feelings about the matter, He claims to care about Duke basketball, and maybe he does a lot that I don't know about, but on the air he acts like Duke is his red-headed stepchild. Seriously, he thinks MD is going to beat Duke at Careron, on K's birthday, on his 1000th game at Duke, with every retired jersey that's still alive in the building?!? OK that's stupid, but it's not what get's me. What get's me is that he seems to be afraid that people won't take him seriously if he picks Duke, or that he'll get teased by the Kerlina guys up there in CT.

Dude... okay, a few things.

First, this part:

He claims to care about Duke basketball, and maybe he does a lot that I don't know about

He went to Duke. He played basketball for Duke. He played basketball for Coach K. He has repeatedly come back for camps and special occasions, and has spoken OFTEN about his love for Duke. If you don't know about it, it is because you have not paid attention, or given him the credit that a former Duke Blue Devil deserves.

Next:


but on the air he acts like Duke is his red-headed stepchild.

Because he picks Maryland to win? That is what this particular piece of the thread is about, after all..

Next:


Seriously, he thinks MD is going to beat Duke at Careron, on K's birthday, on his 1000th game at Duke, with every retired jersey that's still alive in the building?!? OK that's stupid, but it's not what get's me.

Yep. And you know what? He wasn't the only one. We looked weak against UNC, Maryland has looked VERY strong, and for all the positives that can come from an emotional afternoon like this, everyone has also seen that backfire, giving the visitors fire in their bellies to ruin things while the home team is so amped up they fumble it away. We've seen it happen... remember Shane Battier's senior night, or JJs? Making a prediction like this is not that stupid.

Lastly:


What get's me is that he seems to be afraid that people won't take him seriously if he picks Duke, or that he'll get teased by the Kerlina guys up there in CT.

I've never seen this. I've seen Jay pick us plenty, and when he doesn't, he usually has an intelligent reason to do so, a point I often agree with. And judging by Jay's willingness to pull for Duke when it isn't popular (as evidenced by his ESPN commercial about it) I would say this is unlikely.

There is a LOT more to talk about than how a Blue Devil picks who he thinks will win. I think you should give him more credit than you do.

Anyway...

Remember how Brian Zoubek kept the ball up a lot today?

Faison1
02-13-2010, 04:08 PM
There is no doubt that Duke is a totally different team at home than on the road. That being said, I think the team is actually improving right now.

Things that I was really pleased with:

-ZOUBS!!! Way to go, man!!
-The big three didn't log 40 minutes a piece
-The sub patterns included 10 minutes for Dre
-Mason looked ever-more confident out there
-81% from the line
-the overall D since the Georgetown game has been fantastic

Room for improvement:

-Dre still looks a bit lost, and perhaps lacking some confidence
-I wish the bench minutes would increase....today Ryan only got 3 minutes
-I think the offense in general is still a work in progress

Still a great win! I always enjoy beating Maryland....has it been 5 times in a row now? Very satisfying.....great week for the Devils!!!!

Lord Ash
02-13-2010, 04:10 PM
For the anti-Jay crew here, here is what he himself says about the whole "picking against Duke" idea:

I rarely jump into opinion based discussions, but I have been getting texted like crazy about the posts in this thread, and I was encouraged to respond. I have to admit, I really enjoyed reading the posts and got some good laughs and some good feedback out of them! I value and respect each opinion, and and have no quarrel with any judgment made. I do, however, want to provide you with a few facts and a little bit of background. I apologize in advance for this being excruciatingly long and boring.

First, I never have a problem with anyone that holds a negative view of me as a broadcaster. Whether you like my commentary or not, that is a matter of taste, and I would not argue with anyone on that. However, the discussion of my "loyalty" or "objectivity" is misplaced. It has always struck me as funny that some Duke fans would readily admit a lack of objectivity themselves, yet steadfastly maintain that I go out of my way to "tear down Duke" to "appear" objective or unbiased. The upshot of that is that I am thought of as biased, but I am somehow dishonestly trying to appear otherwise. That strikes me as silly. If you disagree, say why. To suggest that I have ulterior motives for my comments is about my integrity and not my opinions.

What I say on the air, I believe. I may not always be correct, but I know of no commentator that is. Having played and coached, I have the utmost respect for those that compete, and would never allow where I went to school to control the content of my commentary. When I think Duke is the best team, I say so. When I think that another is better, I say so. It is a pretty simple formula.

One person went so far as to say that I have become a "shill" for North Carolina. A shill is one that publicizes or praises for reasons of self-interest, personal profit or loyalty. To me, it is difficult to reconcile how I could be a "shill" for North Carolina while at the same time pursuing my agenda of trying to "appear" unbiased. That is a difficult tightrope for any commentator to walk!

Second, on the commentary regarding North Carolina as the No. 1 team despite the loss to BC, that was a request from SportsCenter. I was asked to "make a case" for North Carolina maintaining the No. 1 spot despite the loss. SportsCenter wanted 45 seconds on the topic, and I did it before the Georgetown-Notre Dame game on Monday night. I began the commentary by saying, "I think you could make a great case....." It was simply a point of debate for SportsCenter, and I did it. I happen to believe that North Carolina has the best team this season. I also happen to believe that every team will lose games this year, and North Carolina is the most likely to win the National Championship. It is not unreasonable for any person to vote North Carolina No. 1, nor would it be unreasonable for any person to vote Pitt or Duke No. 1. A poll is a collection of individual votes. My vote would be for UNC as the best team. I am not suggesting that we stop the season and award the trophy to the Tar Heels. It is just talk, and just one man's opinion.

I am not always right, but I have a decent record with my judgment on teams. In both 2001 and 2008, I picked the correct Final Four in both October and March of that year. In 2002, 2004, and 2006, I picked Duke to reach the Final Four, and in 2002 and 2006, I was wrong, and in 2004 it proved correct. I say that not to pat myself on the back (maybe just a little) but to ask, was I biased or trying to appear unbiased in all of those judgments? When I pick Duke to beat North Carolina, as I did last year at Duke, and North Carolina wins, what was my motivation? Do I get credit for saying Redick should be Player of the Year over Morrison, or was I doing that to mask or balance my grand plan to appear unbiased?

My employer asks us to make picks, and we do it. When I make a pick, I stand behind it and have a reasoned judgment behind it. It may not always be correct, but it is always honest.

A quick story. I gave a speech just after the 2001 NCAA Tournament and in teh Q & A, a Duke grad gave me a hard time for picking Maryland to beat Duke in the semifinal (a pick that looked prescient with a Terp 22-point lead). He chastised me for being wrong, and I asked him if he picked Duke every year, and how old he was. He said yes and he was 65. I said, "Congratulations, you are 3 for 65". I told the person that if I picked based upon where I went to school, I would not only be wrong more often, but I would have no integrity. And, I told him that I would not do that just to satisfy him or anyone else.

Ask yourself this....at times, you write or post things that are critical of Duke or the players and coaches. Do you have the right to do that and I do not just because I am on ESPN? That would not make much sense to me.

I pick the teams and players I think are the best, pure and simple. But, if one believes otherwise, there is not much I can do about it. More than anything, my self interest in this job is to be right, and that is all I really care about. I want to get it right.

If you disagree with something I say, state your case as to why I am wrong. But, to simply say that I am trying to appear unbiased or going out of my way to tear down Duke is not an argument, and does not advance the ball. I don't mind reasonable disagreement. In fact, I welcome it. Our talk and opinions is not going to change anything that happens on the court. It is just talk.

Second, Hubert Davis is a GREAT guy, and he is unbiased. Most of what you hear from Hubert is tongue in cheek. Hubert has picked against North Carolina on numerous occasions. However, it is undeniable that Hubert's work on GameDay has coincided with North Carolina's great success over the last several years. What is he supposed to do? Should be not pick them for the Final Four because he would appear biased to some? That would be silly.

Most of the top players on the Duke and North Carolina rosters are recruited by both schools. I promise you that if you knew Hubert or Brad Daugherty or Eric Montross, you would really like them. Just as North Carolina fans would really like most Duke guys if they got to know them. Both are great schools with great programs and great people. It follows that both schools have likable and personable people that "get it". Hubert Davis gets it, and I am proud and grateful to have him as a friend.

Third, I never picked Xavier or Southern Illinois over Duke. I don't know where that one came from. I blather on about a lot of things that are very forgettable, but I think I would remember that one. It never happened.

Lastly, and I really mean this, I would never want a Duke fan to like me or my work simply because I played and coached at Duke. If you like the work, fine. If you do not, that is fine, too. I don't deserve any brownie points for having played for Coach K. Given the career I had at Duke, I would understand any negative view of me!! I'm just doing a job, and doing the best I can. I encourage you to evaluate me, and all of us, using your best judgment and your own standards. And, you should get your opinions out there. Yours is just as valid as mine.

Have a great year, and thanks for indulging me!! Best regards, Jay Bilas

Lord Ash
02-13-2010, 04:23 PM
Can I ask; did anyone else feel the game was a very well reffed one?

I know we (fans, I mean) often complain about refs, but this one felt like it had a lot going for it:

First, it was very consistently reffed... what was a foul one minute in stayed a foul halfway through.

Second, they allowed it to be physical, as long as the physicality stayed within the rules.

Third, the refs really called "over the back" correctly, in that they did not just whistle any player who was behind another player during a rebound. It has felt this year that the "over the back" call has been just not applied correctly, in that players who were in a good position and generally maintained it would be blown for a foul even if they really should not have been.

I don't know... I just felt this was a very well reffed game... controlled and consistent without shutting down basketball.

Dukeface88
02-13-2010, 05:00 PM
Interesting article at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/12/AR2010021203230.html about Vasquez and the Crazies. According to the line monitor applications he's even more disliked than :eek:, which I didn't expect.

RelativeWays
02-13-2010, 05:01 PM
This thread is about to degenerate into what I changed out of my daughter's diaper about 2 hours ago. Speaking of which, I had a birthday party to attend to so only saw the first 5 minutes of the game. I wish I could find a replay to see Zoubeard dominate and dunk on the twerps

BleedsP287
02-13-2010, 05:25 PM
Jay's response was good, and hard to disagree with. I understand he would object to questions on his motives and integrity (though I've seen little of that here).

I'll weigh in by saying I've always enjoyed hearing Jay's analysis and commentary. But I certainly wouldn't have picked MD to win at Cameron on a day like today. No one is right all time I guess.

DevilHorns
02-13-2010, 05:27 PM
Interesting article at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/12/AR2010021203230.html about Vasquez and the Crazies. According to the line monitor applications he's even more disliked than :eek:, which I didn't expect.

In all honesty, I've always liked Vasquez. Maybe thats because he plays with a fire under his arse but doesnt have great luck against the Devils (but does handle UNC from time to time).

Ive always liked Gary Williams too.

BD80
02-13-2010, 05:28 PM
... they all probably know more about basketball than I do about economics or birds (but I can bore you to death if you have a few hours). ...

I think you vastly overestimate my endurance, by about a factor of about 60 :rolleyes:


'I agree BTW. Why should you give it a rest? You paid the greens fees; play all 18 holes.'

No. No. No.

I shoot in the 80s.

And then I stop.

I often save 10 to 30 minutes skipping those few holes.


http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/02/bdn-locker-room-report-coach-k-post-game-comments/ Coach K audio, Zoubs on the way. Great win in many, many ways. Still a ton of media here and the ex players up top partying a bit, especially Dennard;)

KDog partying? Nooooooo.


... [Bilas] went to Duke. He played basketball for Duke. He played basketball for Coach K. He has repeatedly come back for camps and special occasions, and has spoken OFTEN about his love for Duke. If you don't know about it, it is because you have not paid attention, or given him the credit that a former Duke Blue Devil deserves. ...

He coached at Duke (Just piling on)

mo.st.dukie
02-13-2010, 05:41 PM
You err, and frankly you're rude, in assuming a) I don't know that stuff, and b) that I haven't paid attention to Duke this year, and c) that my own opinion is formed by "just listening to what people are saying."

Otherwise you make good points about Duke's strengths at home. But you might want to work on the delivery. Lay off the friendly fire, please.

I meant you as in Jay Bilas, not you as in cspan. My fault for not making that clear.

Verga3
02-13-2010, 06:08 PM
For the anti-Jay crew here, here is what he himself says about the whole "picking against Duke" idea:

I rarely jump into opinion based discussions, but I have been getting texted like crazy about the posts in this thread, and I was encouraged to respond. I have to admit, I really enjoyed reading the posts and got some good laughs and some good feedback out of them! I value and respect each opinion, and and have no quarrel with any judgment made. I do, however, want to provide you with a few facts and a little bit of background. I apologize in advance for this being excruciatingly long and boring.

First, I never have a problem with anyone that holds a negative view of me as a broadcaster. Whether you like my commentary or not, that is a matter of taste, and I would not argue with anyone on that. However, the discussion of my "loyalty" or "objectivity" is misplaced. It has always struck me as funny that some Duke fans would readily admit a lack of objectivity themselves, yet steadfastly maintain that I go out of my way to "tear down Duke" to "appear" objective or unbiased. The upshot of that is that I am thought of as biased, but I am somehow dishonestly trying to appear otherwise. That strikes me as silly. If you disagree, say why. To suggest that I have ulterior motives for my comments is about my integrity and not my opinions.

What I say on the air, I believe. I may not always be correct, but I know of no commentator that is. Having played and coached, I have the utmost respect for those that compete, and would never allow where I went to school to control the content of my commentary. When I think Duke is the best team, I say so. When I think that another is better, I say so. It is a pretty simple formula.

One person went so far as to say that I have become a "shill" for North Carolina. A shill is one that publicizes or praises for reasons of self-interest, personal profit or loyalty. To me, it is difficult to reconcile how I could be a "shill" for North Carolina while at the same time pursuing my agenda of trying to "appear" unbiased. That is a difficult tightrope for any commentator to walk!

Second, on the commentary regarding North Carolina as the No. 1 team despite the loss to BC, that was a request from SportsCenter. I was asked to "make a case" for North Carolina maintaining the No. 1 spot despite the loss. SportsCenter wanted 45 seconds on the topic, and I did it before the Georgetown-Notre Dame game on Monday night. I began the commentary by saying, "I think you could make a great case....." It was simply a point of debate for SportsCenter, and I did it. I happen to believe that North Carolina has the best team this season. I also happen to believe that every team will lose games this year, and North Carolina is the most likely to win the National Championship. It is not unreasonable for any person to vote North Carolina No. 1, nor would it be unreasonable for any person to vote Pitt or Duke No. 1. A poll is a collection of individual votes. My vote would be for UNC as the best team. I am not suggesting that we stop the season and award the trophy to the Tar Heels. It is just talk, and just one man's opinion.

I am not always right, but I have a decent record with my judgment on teams. In both 2001 and 2008, I picked the correct Final Four in both October and March of that year. In 2002, 2004, and 2006, I picked Duke to reach the Final Four, and in 2002 and 2006, I was wrong, and in 2004 it proved correct. I say that not to pat myself on the back (maybe just a little) but to ask, was I biased or trying to appear unbiased in all of those judgments? When I pick Duke to beat North Carolina, as I did last year at Duke, and North Carolina wins, what was my motivation? Do I get credit for saying Redick should be Player of the Year over Morrison, or was I doing that to mask or balance my grand plan to appear unbiased?

My employer asks us to make picks, and we do it. When I make a pick, I stand behind it and have a reasoned judgment behind it. It may not always be correct, but it is always honest.

A quick story. I gave a speech just after the 2001 NCAA Tournament and in teh Q & A, a Duke grad gave me a hard time for picking Maryland to beat Duke in the semifinal (a pick that looked prescient with a Terp 22-point lead). He chastised me for being wrong, and I asked him if he picked Duke every year, and how old he was. He said yes and he was 65. I said, "Congratulations, you are 3 for 65". I told the person that if I picked based upon where I went to school, I would not only be wrong more often, but I would have no integrity. And, I told him that I would not do that just to satisfy him or anyone else.

Ask yourself this....at times, you write or post things that are critical of Duke or the players and coaches. Do you have the right to do that and I do not just because I am on ESPN? That would not make much sense to me.

I pick the teams and players I think are the best, pure and simple. But, if one believes otherwise, there is not much I can do about it. More than anything, my self interest in this job is to be right, and that is all I really care about. I want to get it right.

If you disagree with something I say, state your case as to why I am wrong. But, to simply say that I am trying to appear unbiased or going out of my way to tear down Duke is not an argument, and does not advance the ball. I don't mind reasonable disagreement. In fact, I welcome it. Our talk and opinions is not going to change anything that happens on the court. It is just talk.

Second, Hubert Davis is a GREAT guy, and he is unbiased. Most of what you hear from Hubert is tongue in cheek. Hubert has picked against North Carolina on numerous occasions. However, it is undeniable that Hubert's work on GameDay has coincided with North Carolina's great success over the last several years. What is he supposed to do? Should be not pick them for the Final Four because he would appear biased to some? That would be silly.

Most of the top players on the Duke and North Carolina rosters are recruited by both schools. I promise you that if you knew Hubert or Brad Daugherty or Eric Montross, you would really like them. Just as North Carolina fans would really like most Duke guys if they got to know them. Both are great schools with great programs and great people. It follows that both schools have likable and personable people that "get it". Hubert Davis gets it, and I am proud and grateful to have him as a friend.

Third, I never picked Xavier or Southern Illinois over Duke. I don't know where that one came from. I blather on about a lot of things that are very forgettable, but I think I would remember that one. It never happened.

Lastly, and I really mean this, I would never want a Duke fan to like me or my work simply because I played and coached at Duke. If you like the work, fine. If you do not, that is fine, too. I don't deserve any brownie points for having played for Coach K. Given the career I had at Duke, I would understand any negative view of me!! I'm just doing a job, and doing the best I can. I encourage you to evaluate me, and all of us, using your best judgment and your own standards. And, you should get your opinions out there. Yours is just as valid as mine.

Have a great year, and thanks for indulging me!! Best regards, Jay Bilas


Thanks, Lord Ash for relaying Jay's comments. Hard to argue he is not a man of integrity.....and belief would certainly have to be suspended if one doesn't understand the place Duke has in his heart. He has given much personally to his alma mater since he graduated, and all of it is not related to basketball. His work with Duke Children's Hospital is only but one great example. This is a man who cares greatly about his alma mater, but obviously does not compromise his analytical opinions and commentary with his warm feelings for his university. I really respect that (even when he misses one).

Lord Ash
02-13-2010, 06:34 PM
Hey, I just copied and pasted it from a post he made some time back:)


Anyone else feel the same about the refs this game?

Newton_14
02-13-2010, 06:41 PM
Hey, I just copied and pasted it from a post he made some time back:)


Anyone else feel the same about the refs this game?

I do. Best ref'd game I have seen in the ACC in quite sometime. I really do not recall screaming at a ref at any point all day. No one from either team was ever in any real foul trouble. Even though Nolan got 4 fouls, the 4th came late enough that it hardly mattered. I wish all the games were called like this one was.

I do remember one call I thought was bad come to think of it. In that call in the first half where the shot clock was running down on Maryland, their center went up and got blocked by Mason. After review the refs ruled the ball hit the bottom of the rym support. In my view it hit the bottom of the backboard. Other than that I don't remember another call I had a beef with..

diveonthefloor
02-13-2010, 06:48 PM
Yeah, great predictions by Hubert Davis and Jay Bilas.

Wrong by a bunch.

Not really to defend them, but don't you think both Hubert and Jay thought Lance was not going to play today?
I think we may have won without Lance, but it could've been a nailbiter.

77devil
02-13-2010, 06:51 PM
.....because he's sensitive to the fact that fellow announcer Dick Vitale has made it clear for so long that he loves Duke (a lot) and in doing so, has lost respect and credibility with many viewers? Maybe Jay has made the decision that he's going to distance himself from Vitale and instead, try to be more objective and much less subjective in his analysis and projection.

dth.

There is a lot of distance between Dickie and Jay. Maybe both should try to meet in the middle.

roywhite
02-13-2010, 06:57 PM
Not really to defend them, but don't you think both Hubert and Jay thought Lance was not going to play today?
I think we may have won without Lance, but it could've been a nailbiter.

It was great to see Lance play today; he showed real determination desire to get out there with a sore knee.

He played 26 minutes and had 4 points and 3 rebounds.

77devil
02-13-2010, 07:05 PM
I guess I read the Bilas, Hubert Davis, Gottlieb, Jason Williams, etc. situation differently from you.

For example, I have one professional interest (economics) and one intense amateur interest (birding), and I have no trouble telling who are the real experts in the field when I am exposed to them

Similarly, the aforementioned announcers have made a lifetime of studying and playing basketball. I have no doubt that they have no problems abstracting from their former affiliations -- both in analyzing the action and in thinking ahead to a game between two teams. And they all probably know more about basketball than I do about economics or birds (but I can bore you to death if you have a few hours).

If you ask them to analyze an upcoming game, they would have a lot to say that was well thought out, and -- in Bilas's case -- exquisitely expressed. Now if you press them on who is gonna win, that's a different matter, but that's why they make the big bucks. They have to predict a winner. So they do.

I didn't see Bilas on his prediction of this game, but if there were several making predictions, then you have to recognize that the responses will be scripted by the producers, and certain announcers asked if they wouldn't mind taking the other side of the debate.

I don't know whether it happened in this instance, but there was a recent, really humorous interchange where Hubert Davis took the position that Wake, not Duke, was the best team in the ACC. Bilas and someone else were also involved. You can almost picture the producers saying, "Someone has to pick a team other than Duke." The other guys all look at UNC's Hubert and say, "Well?" Later in the program he recanted and said that he thought Duke was the best team in the ACC.

sagegrouse
'I agree BTW. Why should you give it a rest? You paid the greens fees; play all 18 holes.'

I think Jay calls it straight agree with him or not. I doubt that he is willing to let a producer script him into taking an opposite position for entertainment value. If he does, that would be disappointment.

Love to discuss economics but the PBB is no more(couldn't help myself).

Lord Ash
02-13-2010, 07:09 PM
I do. Best ref'd game I have seen in the ACC in quite sometime. I really do not recall screaming at a ref at any point all day. No one from either team was ever in any real foul trouble. Even though Nolan got 4 fouls, the 4th came late enough that it hardly mattered. I wish all the games were called like this one was.

I do remember one call I thought was bad come to think of it. In that call in the first half where the shot clock was running down on Maryland, their center went up and got blocked by Mason. After review the refs ruled the ball hit the bottom of the rym support. In my view it hit the bottom of the backboard. Other than that I don't remember another call I had a beef with..

Yeah, that was a poor call... and honestly there was an illegal screen on Jon Scheyer where the Terp almost pushed him bodily out of bounds... but overall I thought it was a very well officiated game.

diveonthefloor
02-13-2010, 07:11 PM
btw the funniest thing about Jay and Hubert picking wrong by choosing MD over Duke is that Digger picked the game correctly!
LMAO!!!

diveonthefloor
02-13-2010, 07:15 PM
I think Jay calls it straight agree with him or not. I doubt that he is willing to let a producer script him into taking an opposite position for entertainment value.

Will Leitch's "God Save the Fan" is a book a read last year which discussed this topic. Apparently ESPN producers commonly give "points of view" to their commentators and then ask them to defend these points of view. This seems to be most common in the give and take shows like Around the Horn. It wouldn't surprise me if they did the same thing on Gameday.

Duvall
02-13-2010, 07:18 PM
Jay: "I can't believe Hubert picked Maryland." Heh.

DevilHorns
02-13-2010, 07:21 PM
Not really to defend them, but don't you think both Hubert and Jay thought Lance was not going to play today?
I think we may have won without Lance, but it could've been a nailbiter.

If you read Jay's write up from the day before on ESPN, he picks MD straight up. Doesnt mention Lance. Doesnt mention the suspected atmosphere at Cameron for K's big game. None of that. Thats why that pick irritated me today, its as if he didnt really try to account for all the factors in this game. I do not want Jay Bilas to be a homer at all. Its just that I feel he's the anti-homer.

Two questions:
1. How many times can you recall Jay picking a team to upset Duke? If you cant recall any well today was definitely one, but there are several others.
2. How many times has Jay picked Duke to upset a team? Exactly.

Hubert did mention Lance's injury on Gameday, and did factor that in for picking the Terps. Jay didn't.

I promised I wouldn't talk about this anymore and for that I apologize. urgh.

sagegrouse
02-13-2010, 07:25 PM
I think Jay calls it straight agree with him or not. I doubt that he is willing to let a producer script him into taking an opposite position for entertainment value. If he does, that would be disappointment.

Love to discuss economics but the PBB is no more(couldn't help myself).

Except that he admitted that he took a point of view suggested by the producers, when he argued that UNC should remain at the top of the polls despite a loss.

What I find most useful about economics as applied to topics on this board is that econ really bores in on direction of causation, obliterating notions that correlation implies causation or similar heresies.

The other useful point of view for a social scientist is that we may be willing t
o jump off a cliff to follow some ridiculous inference suggested by the data, but we insist on at least 30+ observations (degrees of freedom). It is amazing here how many people are willing to generalize on just one observation. And DBR is the classiest hoops Board I have yet encountered.

sagegrouse

77devil
02-13-2010, 07:26 PM
the ex players up top partying a bit, especially Dennard;)

Especially K Dog, what a big surprise.;)

Crisker
02-13-2010, 07:42 PM
Not really to defend them, but don't you think both Hubert and Jay thought Lance was not going to play today?
I think we may have won without Lance, but it could've been a nailbiter.

Loved the game. Great day for Duke Hoops.

I'm not sure what you saw about Lance's game today that would have made it a nailbiter. Everyone was playing well. I actually wish Lance would have taken the game off. Our other players need the time and experience, and they were all playing well. Plus, we'll need a very healthy LT come tourney times.

SoCalDukeFan
02-13-2010, 07:52 PM
We should start a thread to discuss Jay Bilas and let this one focus on the game.

To me and many of you Zoubek's play was great. I was really impressed that he did not foul out and he often kept the ball high. I don't vote for Man of the Match because its a team game but if I did my vote would certainly be for Brian.

The next question is if Z can maintain this level for rest of the season. I certainly hope so.

SoCal

roywhite
02-13-2010, 08:32 PM
We should start a thread to discuss Jay Bilas and let this one focus on the game.

To me and many of you Zoubek's play was great. I was really impressed that he did not foul out and he often kept the ball high. I don't vote for Man of the Match because its a team game but if I did my vote would certainly be for Brian.

The next question is if Z can maintain this level for rest of the season. I certainly hope so.

SoCal

And a related question...can Miles Plumlee handle getting knocked out of the starting lineup? Will he work hard and show improvement?

Don't expect Zoubs to have too many games like today, but if the front court rotation of Zoubs, Miles, Mason, Lance, Ryan Kelly, and Lance can continue to provide rebounding, defense, and timely scoring...this Duke team can go far.

houstondukie
02-13-2010, 08:40 PM
I disagree wholeheartedly. Mason and Miles played great together against Wake Forest, and then K went away from them (playing together) completely until the UNC game when the Thomas injury forced him to play them together again.

They have good chemistry together and they are always looking for each other. They are very aware of where the other is on the court, and where they like getting the ball. That is a result of playing together for so many years. In the UNC game, Mason quickly hit Miles with a pass and Miles confidently drained a bank shot. Right before that, they altered a UNC shot Duke secured the rebound, and Duke went on to score on the ensuing possession. It is very intimdating when you have two 6 foot 10+ high jumpers skying to block a shot simultaneously on defense, and it is discouraging for opponents when you have twin towers getting offensive rebounds and putbacks like we saw them do against Wake. That is just a preview of things to come as they get more extended minutes.

I agree with you Oriole, Mason and Miles play better alongside each other.

From my own personal experience, when you have two brothers so similar in age who have grown up playing basketball with each other, there is an extra level of comfort on the court because you know each other's game so well. Plus, you want to win that much more because it's more personal and you don't want to let your brother down.

heyman25
02-13-2010, 08:49 PM
This team plays really well at home- just wish they could bottle their confidence for the road. So great for Zoubek to have a game like this in his senior season. The kid has played his heart out through injuries his whole career- but never had this kind of game against a solid opponent. Nice to see Thomas play well today. Jon was his solid great self. All in all, a very dominant win. Get some rest- you deserve it.

No complaints about Brian.If his inside presence can stay at this level, we will get past the Sweet 16 this year. Still waiting for Singler, Scheyer & Smith to play at their best in the same game.I hope it is a break out game where Brian can score with putbacks and be as strong on the boards for the rest of the season.We need to play like this on the road as you said.

BD80
02-13-2010, 08:54 PM
I agree with you Oriole, Mason and Miles play better alongside each other.

From my own personal experience, when you have two brothers so similar in age who have grown up playing basketball with each other, there is an extra level of comfort on the court because you know each other's game so well. Plus, you want to win that much more because it's more personal and you don't want to let your brother down.

I think they are more comfortable communicating with each other than they are with the other players. Part of it is that they are more deferential to the senior post players, but a lot is just familiarity, which lets them constantly tell the brother things like "slide left" or "watch the baseline." I see each of them talking MUCH more when playing with the brother.

Welcome2DaSlopes
02-13-2010, 08:56 PM
No complaints about Brian.If his inside presence can stay at this level, we will get past the Sweet 16 this year. Still waiting for Singler, Scheyer & Smith to play at their best in the same game.I hope it is a break out game where Brian can score with putbacks and be as strong on the boards for the rest of the season.We need to play like this on the road as you said.

I don't think there is enough shots for all of them to play at there best in the same game. Each can go for 20 plus any game but i don't see all three doing it. Maybe 2 but not all three.

dukebluelemur
02-13-2010, 09:04 PM
In all honesty, I've always liked Vasquez. Maybe thats because he plays with a fire under his arse but doesnt have great luck against the Devils (but does handle UNC from time to time).

Ive always liked Gary Williams too.


I like him because he plays with passion, but never forgets the whole experience is supposed to be fun.

Gary, not so much...

elvis14
02-13-2010, 09:05 PM
I was lucky enough to get invited to attend today's game. What a pleasant surprise (after a tough Friday where my 5 year old broke her finger). The atmosphere in CIS was great today and the team played great. ZZZZ was the man. Love his passion. Add me to the list of folks that think MP's play well together. I love the fact that Grevis kills UNC and not Duke, that's just classic. I don't have much to add except that I continue to really like this years team...a lot. It was cool to see the post game ceremony for Coach K and help sing 'happy birthday' to him.


Can I ask; did anyone else feel the game was a very well reffed one?

I know we (fans, I mean) often complain about refs, but this one felt like it had a lot going for it:

First, it was very consistently reffed... what was a foul one minute in stayed a foul halfway through.


I did not think the game was well reffed at all. Were they consistent? Yes. But there's more to calling a good game than consistency. They weren't calling much of anything and both teams responded with physical play. I'm just glad nobody got hurt.

On another front, although I agree with one of the sides in the Jay Bilas argument, I was very disappointed at the number of responses in this thread discussing that instead of the game itself. Time to agree to disagree boys and girls.

Greg_Newton
02-13-2010, 11:02 PM
-I thought Mason had a great first half, up there with his half at Wake. He seemed to get a little lazy/unfocused in the 2nd half, but he's been making great progress in the last several games.

-It was pretty fun watching Jon get to the rim at will against Vasquez near the end. He looked more like his early-season self today to me.

-I thought Kyle played a great overall game - he really played within himself, didn't force anything, played GREAT D (moving feet much better than he has been), and seemed to elevate surprisingly well on a few plays, including that block.

-I'm so glad K decided to take my advice (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=358982&postcount=21)of starting Z and LT and bringing the Plumls in together art around the 15 min mark for a shake-up!:D I just think it plays to all of their respective strengths better - let the veterans get us off to a solid start, and bring in the energy guys for a second wave. Z was by far our best big throughout the game, but the Plumlees did come in at 7-6 and spark our initial run... plus, no one ever really got in foul trouble. I like this pattern for our early rotation.

Also - it's great to see Z taking initiative, and I would like to see him be even more assertive with the ball. He can get great position pretty much any time he wants, and a 5-foot jump hook from him is a very high percentage shot. He seems to think he needs to get around his defender in the post, rather than just shoot over him... hopefully this game will boost his confidence.

pfrduke
02-13-2010, 11:04 PM
Two questions:
1. How many times can you recall Jay picking a team to upset Duke? If you cant recall any well today was definitely one, but there are several others.
2. How many times has Jay picked Duke to upset a team? Exactly.

To be fair, we've probably been favored in 90-95% of the games we've played since Bilas has been on GameDay. Lot more opportunities to pick someone to upset Duke than to pick Duke to win an upset.

Also to be fair, when was the last time we upset someone? '08 in Chapel Hill?

greybeard
02-14-2010, 01:10 AM
Duke did a great job as a team creating great opportunities for the bigs to score inside during the first five minutes. Z made two terrific scores. The first, he was on the right block, the ball was in the corner, the defender shaded toward the middle to get a hand around in front, Z lifted his left hand, the ball was floated to where he wanted to go Z caught it with momentum going to the rim and scored it. The second was on the conventional hook off the bounce coming across the middle, off the backboard, a very high percentage shot and a near impossible one to stop, at least one on one. When they start doubling down on Z, as Md did the second half, the offense is wide open.

I thin Duke left 12-15 points on the court from Z in the first half alone, by going away from cultivating the inside game throughout the half, Z stopped looking for the ball and the outside players stopped looking for him.

This, to me, is a tremendous shortcoming.

Duke needs to build on those first 5 minutes or so and develop more and more confidence in that game. It is a vital aspect. NO ONE should be able to play Duke straight up inside. That goes for Miles too.

On the play that Lance got blocked, I'd like to see him shoot that shot with his elbows out his butt back and his hands out a foot in front of his face, using just his hands to shoot it. Any attempted block will be a foul and will never get to the ball. Bringing it up over the head is NOT the play. A hands shot from out front, with spin so he can shoot off differnet spots on the board.

I really liked Masons drives to the middle, I'd like to see him stop mid way keeping his dribble and choppy step in place while looking at the rim. If someone closes he goes by either way or drops it off to the open guy for the layup. If no one closes, a bank from straignt away is the most reliable as it allows for a little extra addrenilin and protects against pulling the string.

The best I've seen Duke cultivating the inside during the first 5 minutes as a team. This must be expanded and we have an offense that will present much, much more potently. And, you have seen what can happen on both ends if you get the big guy involved.

PS I liked the few times when Smith and Scheyer threw it inside when both they and the receiver knew it was coming back out or at least the big was not going to shoot. Very impowering and gives defenders much, much more to be concerned about.

I saw many changes for Duke here, especially when the Plumlees were on the court, and loved the double screens for Singler cutting from one wing to the basket on the opposite side.

Who said K doesn't change anything. Very impressive coaching job. Beyond that in execution. Great victory.

77devil
02-14-2010, 07:33 AM
Who said K doesn't change anything.

You did.

dalmatians98
02-14-2010, 08:27 AM
I was so proud of the way Brian Zoubek played yesterday. That game was a testament to all the work that young man has put in since he got to Duke.

Agree with those who said that this win was a really nice birthday present for Coach K. I found the whole thing pretty moving actually. And it was great JJ was there to see it.

mgtr
02-14-2010, 08:53 AM
I was so proud of the way Brian Zoubek played yesterday. That game was a testament to all the work that young man has put in since he got to Duke.

Excellent point, and, a carrot in front of other young players -- hard work does pay off.

Kind of reminds me of "The Little Engine That Could," except maybe this is the gigantic truck that could!

HateCarolina
02-14-2010, 09:11 AM
I think the Valentine's Day (in this case the day before) must have really gotten to both Clark Kellogg and Gary Williams because they both had nice things to say about Duke and/or our players. I cannot remember exactly what was said by Clark during the game, but he made multiple positive comments which is rare at best.

And then this morning I see the positive comments from Gary on Zoubek. I almost feel bad for the "Sweat, Gary, Sweat" chants yesterday (and every other time he comes to Durham), but then I realized that the VD spirit has not charmed me into such sillyness.

El_Diablo
02-14-2010, 09:17 AM
We should start a thread to discuss Jay Bilas and let this one focus on the game.

There was a separate thread, but the mods locked it immediately. I think all sides have been covered regarding Bilas, so unless someone has something new to say, please give it a rest for now (at least in this thread). That goes for both sides. :)

Anyway, I was at the game. Great atmosphere. The Crazies were heavily involved in the Maryland warmup stretches, mimicking all their ridiculous arm thrusts in unison. It made some of the Terrapins laugh. Greivis was very late coming out of the locker room for the shootaround, forcing the Crazies to summon for him in Spanish. Once he made it out onto the floor, he interacted a great deal--listening to the comments with a big smile and acknowledging the signs. He mouthed some disrespectful words towards the Crazies near the end of the game (I think it was right after his last foul), but overall he kept it in check. The Crazies made a giant birthday card for Coach K and a giant "We'll miss making fun of you" card for Greivis and passed them both around for signatures.

The refs did a good job for most of the game, but I was getting frustrated with them at one point in the second half. The refs were letting a lot of slaps go uncalled when we had the ball (which led to missed shots or turnovers). Scheyer was getting fouled nearly every time he went to the rim, and Kyle was slapped a couple times in a trap before he coughed it up. Even when Mason bowled over the defender for a charging call...he had already been hacked on the forearm on the drive. I could understand it if the refs were just letting both teams play, but the foul situation was 7-1 in Maryland's favor at one point...so it seemed like they weren't letting US get away with as much. I'll give credit to Maryland though--they recognized what was not getting called and took full advantage of it.

Good statement win for us. Let's keep up the momentum. Go Devils!

Lord Ash
02-14-2010, 09:20 AM
I think the Valentine's Day (in this case the day before) must have really gotten to both Clark Kellogg and Gary Williams because they both had nice things to say about Duke and/or our players. I cannot remember exactly what was said by Clark during the game, but he made multiple positive comments which is rare at best.

And then this morning I see the positive comments from Gary on Zoubek. I almost feel bad for the "Sweat, Gary, Sweat" chants yesterday (and every other time he comes to Durham), but then I realized that the VD spirit has not charmed me into such sillyness.

Some antibiotics will clear that right up.

Neals384
02-14-2010, 09:41 AM
I don't think there is enough shots for all of them to play at there best in the same game. Each can go for 20 plus any game but i don't see all three doing it. Maybe 2 but not all three.

Well, "play at their best" may not mean that each scores 20. I do think we'll see a game (hopefully six of them), where:

Kyle is super active on defense, hand-in-the-face, grabbing all the loose balls, blocking out and grabbing rebounds. On offense, he will show excellent shot selection, taking those open threes, passing on the contested threes, and being controlled on his drives.

Nolan plays focused defense the whole game. He penetrates off the dribble and makes good split second decisions whether to pass, pull up for a jumper or go all the way to the rim. And makes smart choices when to dunk.

Jon is his usual amazing self, and has a A/T ratio at or above 3.

And each of the three hits a very good percentage of his shots.

Actually, if they do all of the above, there's no reason we couldn't see a game where each of them scores 20!

Saratoga2
02-14-2010, 10:01 AM
Well, "play at their best" may not mean that each scores 20. I do think we'll see a game (hopefully six of them), where:

Kyle is super active on defense, hand-in-the-face, grabbing all the loose balls, blocking out and grabbing rebounds. On offense, he will show excellent shot selection, taking those open threes, passing on the contested threes, and being controlled on his drives.

Nolan plays focused defense the whole game. He penetrates off the dribble and makes good split second decisions whether to pass, pull up for a jumper or go all the way to the rim. And makes smart choices when to dunk.

Jon is his usual amazing self, and has a A/T ratio at or above 3.

And each of the three hits a very good percentage of his shots.

Actually, if they do all of the above, there's no reason we couldn't see a game where each of them scores 20!

I would also say they need to get back on defense after a missed shot or free throw. Maryland did get opportunnity baskets when we were beaten down the court. We need our guards to stay aware that they need to get back. In particular shots made by our guards from the corner leave us in a tough defensive position.

Also, our bigs need to hustle back. Thomas always does as does Kyle, and Zoubek does but is not as fast. Mason seemed to dog it a little. If he gets back, he is a real threat to block any shot.

HateCarolina
02-14-2010, 11:01 AM
Some antibiotics will clear that right up.

Bravo!!! I actually thought that in the back of my mind when typing the original message, but thought I was the only one who would "pick it up" (all the pun intended).

greybeard
02-14-2010, 12:36 PM
You did.

I said K made the most dramatic change I had seen in college ball on the offense in Kyle's freshman year. I said it repeatedly at the time and I said it again last week. I won't bother to try to find the quote, it is in the thread about the BC game or Singler, but it was in response to a post stating that K never changes how his teams play. The poster implied that that was a good thing. Without commenting on whether it was a good thing, I simply pointed out that the poster was wrong AS ARE YOU, SIR, AS IN DEAD WRONG.

devildownunder
02-14-2010, 02:40 PM
I said K made the most dramatic change I had seen in college ball on the offense in Kyle's freshman year. I said it repeatedly at the time and I said it again last week. I won't bother to try to find the quote, it is in the thread about the BC game or Singler, but it was in response to a post stating that K never changes how his teams play. The poster implied that that was a good thing. Without commenting on whether it was a good thing, I simply pointed out that the poster was wrong AS ARE YOU, SIR, AS IN DEAD WRONG.

Actually, the poster was right. You were writing in response to my post -- which was not about how K "never changes how his teams play". It was about how K keeps his rotation small and focused on his best players, as opposed to expanding it to develop depth. I was very clear about what I was saying in my original post and my follow-up, which you never acknowledged, of course.

Native
02-14-2010, 03:05 PM
...I just wish the Crazies had waited for Steve Johnson to get in and pointed at Steve with "Sweaty Johnson" and then Gary with "Sweaty Gary."

Props to Z -- I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the ground.

jdj4duke
02-15-2010, 08:07 AM
Jay's job is to be a BASKETBALL ANALYST, not a Duke fan. Come on folks, you have GOT to get over this... Jay knows more about basketball than anyone here, likely cares more about Duke basketball than anyone here, and has done more for Duke basketball than anyone here. He is also a man with enough integrity that he understands that his JOB is different than his love for Duke.


Bilas picked MD to win. He didn't say we wanted them to win.

moonpie23
02-15-2010, 08:39 AM
i was reading over on IC for some amusement and i enjoyed their I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.-MD thread very much.

"someone hold a UNC jersey in front of MD so they will play better" was one of them..

they did have a lot of posts about why Greivis can't seem to play well against us in cameron.....

do you think that coach K sits the team down and tells them, "whatever happens.......we DONT let Greivis get off"..??


he's a pretty good player.....but he definitely can't seem to get it going in cameron...

allenmurray
02-15-2010, 08:53 AM
Bilas picked MD to win. He didn't say we wanted them to win.

I could care less who Jay Bilas picks to win - his job is to be an analyst, not a Duke partisan.

So let's look at that - his performance as an analyst. Could he have been more wrong? Forget the Duke connection - here is a guy generally regarded to be one of the top analysts in college basketball. He predicted that on a day comemerating a coach's 1000th game, with a huge celebration planned, and with Duke coming off a big win over Carolina, that a slightly-better-than-average University of Maryland team would come into Cameron and pull off an upset (and he never really even explained himself on the Game Day show, he just predicted a Maryland win). Instead Duke simply rolls over Maryland like a runaway train.

So, given a major screw-up like that (again, forget the Duke connection) why is he considered such a top analyst? This one was an easy call - even Digger Phelps got it right, and Digger is a moron. What was Jay thinking? I'd love to know why he thought Maryland could pull off the upset, particularly given their very small size and our preponderance of big men.

devildownunder
02-15-2010, 09:12 AM
I could care less who Jay Bilas picks to win - his job is to be an analyst, not a Duke partisan.

So let's look at that - his performance as an analyst. Could he have been more wrong? Forget the Duke connection - here is a guy generally regarded to be one of the top analysts in college basketball. He predicted that on a day comemerating a coach's 1000th game, with a huge celebration planned, and with Duke coming off a big win over Carolina, that a slightly-better-than-average University of Maryland team would come into Cameron and pull off an upset (and he never really even explained himself on the Game Day show, he just predicted a Maryland win). Instead Duke simply rolls over Maryland like a runaway train.

So, given a major screw-up like that (again, forget the Duke connection) why is he considered such a top analyst? This one was an easy call - even Digger Phelps got it right, and Digger is a moron. What was Jay thinking? I'd love to know why he thought Maryland could pull off the upset, particularly given their very small size and our preponderance of big men.

Well, just for the sake of argument, I'll say maybe he did it as a calculated risk. The easy pick for this game was, obviously, Duke. But Maryland had been on a bit of a roll and the series has been very tight recently (although the actual games in Cameron lately haven't been). So maybe he figured he'd take a shot with this one, knowing he'd come out looking brilliant if the terps pulled it out.

I'm not saying that would be an admirable thing to do because I don't think it would be. I want to know these guys' real opinions not just positions that they argue for entertainment reasons. But maybe that's what he was doing. Just a guess.

devildownunder
02-15-2010, 09:15 AM
do you think that coach K sits the team down and tells them, "whatever happens.......we DONT let Greivis get off"..??





Probably. The last couple of years the rest of their personnel hasn't been that great. He is the key to the team.

allenmurray
02-15-2010, 09:46 AM
I'm not saying that would be an admirable thing to do because I don't think it would be. I want to know these guys' real opinions not just positions that they argue for entertainment reasons. But maybe that's what he was doing. Just a guess.

Exactly - on way too many of these pre-game shows a different team is picked by each analyst - far too often for it to be coincidence. Rather than each analyst talking about the positives and negatives of each team, and then making their prediction, it is as though it is some sort of basketball attempt to be "fair and balanced" - as though ech of them was given a team they had to pick and explain why. It is no longer analysis, but basketball Kabuki Theatre. ESPN now stands for Entertainment (instead of) Sports Programming Network.

When any of the studio guys say the are predicting a certain team I have no idea any more if that is how they really feel, or if it is the role they have been given. If this is true (and it certainly sometimes seems to be) they are no longer journalists.

Jbug
02-15-2010, 09:58 AM
Greetings,
Long time reader... first time poster.
This game was the first game i watched all season via internet streaming... from 3am to 5am, as i reside in a certain far east (Asian) country. Glad i picked this game to watch! Good times.

As for the below discussion, analysts have to be anti-consensus at times... (whether it be about basketball, stocks, whatever) in order to stand out, which at times backfires of course (unfortunate).



Well, just for the sake of argument, I'll say maybe he did it as a calculated risk. The easy pick for this game was, obviously, Duke. But Maryland had been on a bit of a roll and the series has been very tight recently (although the actual games in Cameron lately haven't been). So maybe he figured he'd take a shot with this one, knowing he'd come out looking brilliant if the terps pulled it out.

I'm not saying that would be an admirable thing to do because I don't think it would be. I want to know these guys' real opinions not just positions that they argue for entertainment reasons. But maybe that's what he was doing. Just a guess.

allenmurray
02-15-2010, 10:08 AM
Greetings,
Long time reader... first time poster.
This game was the first game i watched all season via internet streaming... from 3am to 5am, as i reside in a certain far east (Asian) country. Glad i picked this game to watch! Good times.

As for the below discussion, analysts have to be anti-consensus at times... (whether it be about basketball, stocks, whatever) in order to stand out, which at times backfires of course (unfortunate).

I agree . . . except, if they are intentionally being anti-concensus in order to stand out (rather than basing their picks on their actual analysis) then they are not analyists, but entertainers.

Newton_14
02-15-2010, 12:18 PM
In fairness to Bilas, G-Man also picked the terps for the upset. He was on the Packman show on Friday. He felt that Maryland was a very hot team, especially from 3-Ball land, and that they would spread Duke out and use the G'Town formula. He also expected LT not to play and for Duke to be off a bit coming off the game with the holes..

I am actually in the camp that Gameday is scripted way more than we would like to believe and the producers direct the commentary. I would bet that each of the guys are given a team "to make a case for" and they have to run with that. Who knows? Like AM, if they are making their own picks, I expect Bilas to pick the team he thinks will win based on his basketball knowledge, not based on where he went to school..

Stray Gator
02-15-2010, 01:22 PM
Take into consideration where Jay was sitting--and who was sitting behind him--when he had to make that pick, and perhaps he can be forgiven for choosing the option that was least likely to place his personal security and survival in jeopardy. ;)

jimsumner
02-15-2010, 01:37 PM
We're still arguing about Bilas' prediction?

Let's go back to last week. Remember the angst when the Maryland-Virginia game was canceled because of snow? Surely, the extra rest and extra prep time would be an enormous benefit for Maryland.

Remember the angst when Lance Thomas hurt his knee against Carolina? Who can guard Maryland's great perimeter players? Who can make that in-bounds pass against Maryland's press? Who can guard Vasquez? How can a tired Duke team keep a fresh Maryland team from running and pressing Duke to death? Did you see what Maryland did to Carolina?

Speaking of Carolina, there's that post-UNC letdown. Duke never plays well after UNC. Right?

Hindsight is 20/20. Factor in the variables listed above, add in the unlikelihood of a 16-point, 17-rebound performance by Zoubek, and was a Maryland victory that unlikely, that preposterous? No anxiety at all at 1 P.M. Saturday? None?

allenmurray
02-15-2010, 01:57 PM
We're still arguing about Bilas' prediction?

Again, I don't care who they pick. I just think most of them (Bilas, Vitale, Elmore, Davis, Phelps - the whole bloody group) have moved from the realm of journalist/analyst to entertainer. They don't admit it, and they still want to be seen as journalists, but they are not. They are entertainers. Some of them are good at it - but theydon't admit to the role.

allenmurray
02-15-2010, 01:59 PM
I am actually in the camp that Gameday is scripted way more than we would like to believe and the producers direct the commentary. I would bet that each of the guys are given a team "to make a case for" and they have to run with that. Who knows? Like AM, if they are making their own picks, I expect Bilas to pick the team he thinks will win based on his basketball knowledge, not based on where he went to school..

or on who the producer told him to "make a case for"

Durhamrocks68
02-15-2010, 02:08 PM
I think most of them feel like Duke is capable of a late-season collapse. Maybe this comes from our tourney results the last few years or they just think that we can play soft (Georgetown and State this year). With this year's team, I think they're waiting for another bad performance before the tourney and Maryland really looked like a good bet to them. However, they (including Bilas) should realize that this Duke team is real tough to beat at Cameron and are starting to string a couple of gritty road wins together. Even if we win out in the ACC and take the tourney, I predict several talking heads will pick us to flame out early (Rd. 2 or Sweet Sixteen game) in the NCAAs. I consider this to be an opportunity to prove the so-called experts wrong and I'm sure the team and coaching staff feel the same way.

ArnieMc
02-17-2010, 11:37 AM
Quote from Jay Bilas:

Most of the top players on the Duke and North Carolina rosters are recruited by both schools. I promise you that if you knew Hubert or Brad Daugherty or Eric Montross, you would really like them.

Best regards, Jay Bilas Did anyone else notice what other prominent (at ESPN) unc alumnus was omitted from this list? (I'll give you a hint, his initials are SS.) Do you suppose that was deliberate?

CDu
02-17-2010, 11:44 AM
Quote from Jay Bilas:Did anyone else notice what other prominent (at ESPN) unc alumnus was omitted from this list? (I'll give you a hint, his initials are SS.) Do you suppose that was deliberate?

To be fair, Stuart Scott really shouldn't be lumped in with Bilas/Daugherty/Davis/Montross/Gminksi. He's not a basketball analyst, nor is he a color commentator. His job description is entirely different than those other guys. I'm guessing that's why he was omitted from the list.

dball
02-17-2010, 12:17 PM
Quote from Jay Bilas:Did anyone else notice what other prominent (at ESPN) unc alumnus was omitted from this list? (I'll give you a hint, his initials are SS.) Do you suppose that was deliberate?

Don't believe SS was recruited by either school.

sagegrouse
02-17-2010, 12:24 PM
To be fair, Stuart Scott really shouldn't be lumped in with Bilas/Daugherty/Davis/Montross/Gminksi. He's not a basketball analyst, nor is he a color commentator. His job description is entirely different than those other guys. I'm guessing that's why he was omitted from the list.

It's not that he isn't a color commentator so much as the fact that he didn't play college basketball. He was an on-air guy at the UNC radio station.

sagegrouse

greybeard
02-17-2010, 04:18 PM
Actually, the poster was right. You were writing in response to my post -- which was not about how K "never changes how his teams play". It was about how K keeps his rotation small and focused on his best players, as opposed to expanding it to develop depth. I was very clear about what I was saying in my original post and my follow-up, which you never acknowledged, of course.

If your point is that featuring the Big Three does a disservice to other players in that it keeps them from performing up to their potential, I agree with you. If your point is that the other players, by that, I mean the Plumlees and Zoubek and Lance, are not right now capable of performing much better than they show, I have said maybe a gazzillion times that I DISAGREE WITH THAT.

You missed that from my posts. Okay. My answer to your posts is I think you are wrong in your assessment but recognize your right to express it.

I, on the other hand, have ALWAYS recognized K as an innovator. In fact, I saw tremendous innovation in the last game's offense. In addition to getting it to the Bigs, there was the use of LT amd Miles to come out to the foul line extended WITH THE INTENT THAT THEY WOULD CATCH AND SHOOT THE DAMN THING, WHICH THEY DID AND MADE THEM! Another is that they had a staggered screen set several times for Singler and also Scheyer, but mostly Singler coming from one corner across the lane and curling to the basket for a little hook shot finish. That option run at least three times resulted in two baskets and one foul I believe. They call them INNOVATIONS; K is great at them.