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CameronBornAndBred
02-13-2010, 01:49 PM
Brian Zoubek is having the most amazing game of his career today. And it's not over yet....he even dunked! Double - double, great passing, great defense...it's beautiful to watch. Congrats Brian, so much fun to see.

CameronBornAndBred
02-13-2010, 01:51 PM
I have to toss this out there...if he plays like he has been of late..will the NBA take notice? I think they will.

RainingThrees
02-13-2010, 01:52 PM
16 points 17 rebounds. Has the land lord come back in spirit for the Maryland game?

Oriole Way
02-13-2010, 01:54 PM
Great game, Zoubs!

A Shaq-like effort, with a very rare putback dunk thrown in.

AdjustNation
02-13-2010, 01:54 PM
If we can get a SIMILIAR game to this for the rest of the year can we get our Championship Trophy early in the mail?

borodevil16
02-13-2010, 01:56 PM
New stat: Any time zoubs dunks in a game its good for at least a 20 point win

mike88
02-13-2010, 01:57 PM
I have felt for quite a while that Brian will get a chance in the NBA. He has great size, has shown a nice touch at times, and is improving. Big men seem to have a longer developmental arc than smaller players, and you have to like what you've seen this year. If Marty Nessley can make a team, why not Z?

jpfrizzle
02-13-2010, 01:58 PM
Great to see Zoubs 'puttin in work'

moonpie23
02-13-2010, 01:59 PM
the acc's worst nightmare......Z playing off the chain... !!!

BD80
02-13-2010, 02:03 PM
What was that sound? A giant "CLICK?" A light going on?

I have been a big Zoub slappy over the years, but this isn't an "I told you so" to others on the board.

It is a big "Thank You" to Brian for finally having the kind of game I have thought for four years he could have.

Jumbo
02-13-2010, 02:05 PM
What a great moment for the kid. He's worked so hard and endured a lot of physical problems and criticism from his own fans for four years, so it's even greater to see him enjoy a day like this.

oldnavy
02-13-2010, 02:10 PM
Great job ZOUBS! Nice to see how well he can play when he isn't being whistled for every little stinking nit picky touch foul. I can see the confidence starting to grow, could this be another last half of the senior season, (ala, Ala Aldenaby) coming out party??

Bluedevil114
02-13-2010, 02:12 PM
I had to rewind that dunk over and over again because I could not believe my eyes. Great job Brian!! Big Win for Duke!!

unoriginallynameddukefan
02-13-2010, 02:20 PM
Brian Zoubek is...TERP KRYPTONITE.

As an aside, that would make an excellent B-Movie Poster or t-shirt...I'd buy it at least :cool:

uh_no
02-13-2010, 02:20 PM
I first want to congratulate Z, he played a hell of a game, BUT I'd also like to point out that maryland lacks size. He DID show a glimpse with his block against carolina, but I would like to postpone the coronation until he does things against able big men.


Thank you Z.

Zeb
02-13-2010, 02:23 PM
This was a fantastic game, and not just for some impressive stats. He looked more confident, he continually put himself in the right position to make plays, and he moved really well.

I wonder what might have happened if early in the first half the refs had called a blocking foul instead of a charge. He doesn't always get that call, and if it had gone the wrong way, it might have limited his minutes and his confidence.

So happy for Brian and for the team. I hope he continues to expect this kind of performances from himself even when the opponent has more size, because he can do it. He is nearly always the biggest guy on the court.

I think he will be starting for the next few games.

CameronBornAndBred
02-13-2010, 02:24 PM
Literally laughing out loud listening to Zoub's chat with Bob..he says he "was obviously exhausted". Rest well tonight, Z.

FerryFor50
02-13-2010, 02:27 PM
This is the kind of game I knew Z had in him. Glad he brought it out for the Twerps.

jpfrizzle
02-13-2010, 02:29 PM
Z the skyscraper

loldevilz
02-13-2010, 02:30 PM
I can't say I saw this coming. Props to Zoouuuuuuubs!

jv001
02-13-2010, 02:31 PM
I first want to congratulate Z, he played a hell of a game, BUT I'd also like to point out that maryland lacks size. He DID show a glimpse with his block against carolina, but I would like to postpone the coronation until he does things against able big men.


Thank you Z.

As far as I'm concerned, Zoubs has played well all year. I almost never say anything about officiating, but I have to now. Zoubs never gets the benefit of the doubt by the zebras. More than once have I seen them make the incorrect call. I've run the plays back just to see and it's clear the refs make their minds up before they blow that whistle. When he's in foul trouble it limits the time he's on the floor and the way he's played this year, it hurts us on both defense and offense. Zoubs has limited his illegal picks and that has helped some. Let's hope he continues to play well the rest of the year. It would be a fitting end to his Duke career. Go Duke!

mehmattski
02-13-2010, 02:50 PM
As far as I'm concerned, Zoubs has played well all year. I almost never say anything about officiating, but I have to now. Zoubs never gets the benefit of the doubt by the zebras. More than once have I seen them make the incorrect call. I've run the plays back just to see and it's clear the refs make their minds up before they blow that whistle. When he's in foul trouble it limits the time he's on the floor and the way he's played this year, it hurts us on both defense and offense. Zoubs has limited his illegal picks and that has helped some. Let's hope he continues to play well the rest of the year. It would be a fitting end to his Duke career. Go Duke!

I will say it again... Brian Zoubek is the best offensive rebounder in the country.

Great point about the illegal screens. I watched him frustrate Grevis all day by setting great screens up top, and Vazquez would face-plant into Z's chest. If Z can be mobile around the key, it really opens up the offense. That will play in any game, against any size of opponent.

Jackson
02-13-2010, 02:50 PM
Zoubek even did something that I didn't think he had the ability to do...he dunked. Amazing game.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-13-2010, 03:07 PM
I think it is safe to say that Zoubs made his case to be the starting center from here on out. Maybe it'll be good for Miles to come off the bench! Ya never know. Great job Brian! Heck of a game.

cspan37421
02-13-2010, 03:10 PM
IIRC Marty Nessley got drafted and played half a season in the NBA.

Granted, that was then, and this is now, but Brian is, IMO, a vastly more talented player. I am confident he'll find a spot on an NBA roster for at least a season.

Jarhead
02-13-2010, 03:15 PM
IIRC Marty Nessley got drafted and played half a season in the NBA.

Granted, that was then, and this is now, but Brian is, IMO, a vastly more talented player. I am confident he'll find a spot on an NBA roster for at least a season.

Every time the refs blew the whistle on Marty the Crazies chanted, "Marty doesn't foul." Just a few times a game, that is.

buddy
02-13-2010, 03:26 PM
It seems to me that Z has stopped trying to be everyone's conception of what a 7'1" guy should be, and instead is trying to do what he is capable of doing. His skills are limited (not a slap), but when he plays within himself he can be extremely effective. He no longer is trying to dribble to the hoop, he has stopped bringing the ball down, and has focused on rebounding, setting screens, etc. And all of those things are within his skill set.

This was a very satisfying game. Let's hope we see more. Congratulations Brian.

BD80
02-13-2010, 03:28 PM
Every time the refs blew the whistle on Marty the Crazies chanted, "Marty doesn't foul." Just a few times a game, that is.


Five times.

Each game.

cspan37421
02-13-2010, 03:31 PM
I know - I was there for some of that! (2 year overlap with Marty, and lived next to him his sr. year).

CameronBornAndBred
02-13-2010, 03:43 PM
It seems to me that Z has stopped trying to be everyone's conception of what a 7'1" guy should be, and instead is trying to do what he is capable of doing. His skills are limited (not a slap), but when he plays within himself he can be extremely effective. He no longer is trying to dribble to the hoop, he has stopped bringing the ball down, and has focused on rebounding, setting screens, etc. And all of those things are within his skill set.

This was a very satisfying game. Let's hope we see more. Congratulations Brian.
Agreed...he has worked on his weaknesses, and improved on his strengths. And he doesn't do what he can't do. (Which now no longer includes dunking :D)

MChambers
02-13-2010, 04:01 PM
The last two games, Zoubs for the most part hasn't gotten called for phantom fouls. (There was one play against UNC where he came around the UNC post player clean, knocked the ball away, and got called.)

In both games, it also seemed to me that the refs have been less likely to call fouls on big men playing defense near the basket.

I'm hoping this is a trend and that we'll see more refs letting post players try to block shots. I'm also hoping Zoubs has finally shed his Shavlik Randolph disease.

banneheim
02-13-2010, 04:33 PM
What a great game by him, seems like he was in the right spot at the right time. He did seem a little tired, ie bending over holding his shorts.However, not sure if scouts would be impressed with him but I do remember my coach telling me, you can't teach height.....

elvis14
02-13-2010, 04:37 PM
What was great were the Crazies (and the rest of us) giving Brian props with "Brian Zoubek" chants. He played great today.

CameronBornAndBred
02-13-2010, 04:38 PM
What a great game by him, seems like he was in the right spot at the right time. He did seem a little tired, ie bending over holding his shorts.However, not sure if scouts would be impressed with him but I do remember my coach telling me, you can't teach height.....
Zoubek was laughing with Bob Harris about how he was obviously exhausted at the end of the game. He isn't used to those minutes...but he is young and 15 valuable minutes (less than the 22 he played today) is worth alot of money to any team in the NBA.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-13-2010, 05:05 PM
Brian Zoubek was a BEAST! :cool::cool::D:D

just a lemma
02-13-2010, 05:18 PM
I've been a big critic of Zoubek in the past. My opinion of him as a player hasn't changed too much. HOWEVER! He does make the best of what he has (especially given his physical ailments). What a game by Big Zoubs. He deserves a lot of accolades for what he did in this game. Let's hope for a couple more of these dub-dubs in March, eh?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-13-2010, 05:20 PM
not complex, just well executed.

watched the game at a bar with a friend.

on the offensive end, every time Z went through the same routine:
screen off the ball
screen on the ball
flash to the ball
go for the rebound

simple. yet well executed.

sagegrouse
02-13-2010, 06:58 PM
Question: If Zoubs played 33 minutes today, would he have gotten 24 points and 25 rebounds? I'd love to see it.

sagegrouse

HowBoutDemDevils
02-13-2010, 07:21 PM
I think he derives this strength from his beard.

allenmurray
02-13-2010, 07:52 PM
When the crowd was making the "Z" sign with thier hands as Zoubek came out of the game I said to my son, "If coach K gives hm the Z as he comes off the court this place will explode". Alas, he didn't, but I really wish he had. It would mave been a memorable moment.

Kimist
02-13-2010, 08:11 PM
While one game does not make a season, it was very refreshing to see Zoubek come alive today. I remember looking at the scoreboard and noting a double-double in progress. (Actually, I was even hopeful for a two-digit blocked shot tally :rolleyes: )

I thought perhaps I was having flashbacks to the Fred Lind game against unc...yes, I was there!

Good luck to the Z-man!

k

weezie
02-13-2010, 08:59 PM
We were at the WaDuke after the game, enjoying a few beverages, when Father Zoub strolled in, accepted our congrats and then, the son himself appeared, very humble, very appreciative.
Pretty cool.

HaveFunExpectToWin
02-13-2010, 10:20 PM
Holy Zoubeard! That was a nasty performance.

There is only one lesson to draw from this game:

Mandatory beards for the entire team. Make it so.

devildeac
02-13-2010, 11:36 PM
To resurrect a phrase: "The monster's out of the cage.":D

greybeard
02-14-2010, 12:45 AM
Terrific game but still much more in the tank. I thought that Z did a wonderful job early creating catches on the move and finishing. His first score, when the guy shaded him to the side to get a hand in front from the middle, Z did a terrific job of letting the guy with the ball know where to deliver it, high to his left hand, and caught it on the way to laying it in.

I thought that there were at least another 10-15 points off of such potential catches left out there the first half.

The team came out committed to creating an inside game and was better at it then I have seen in some time. But it seems that they go away from it too easily, that it is still the step sister to the outside game of the so-called Big Three. Z was complicitous in that instead of looking for potential catching lanes, and there was a ton of space inside the first half, he too quickly went to set a screen. Let me add here that he played the screen game, which was very clearly constructed and timed by the way (props to the coaches, really novel and effective) and thus left a lot of easy points on the court.

The second half Md committed a man to drop down to help if Z seemed to have position, but there still were opportunities that he never even gave a glance to see if they were there.

I think that this is a coaching choice and a bad one. The commitment to an inside game needs to persist beyond the first 5 minutes, and Z needs to be encouraged to look for lanes or angles where he can catch and go.

BTW, I loved that dribble move and conventional hook. I think that that can be there all day. I would like to see the Plumlees go to that conventional hook instead of the two-footed jump hook which has much less touch or oppotion to it, and is no good when, as happens, they get pushed out a step. With a conventional hook, when that happens the backboard is available and sweeping up against the board with a little more force will still score the ball, where the jump hook works only on a no backboard, smaller margin for error.

That said, Zoubek was dominant on both ends, and I thought everyone played great.

sivartrenrag
02-14-2010, 07:50 AM
I loved the end of the game when you could tell Zoubek could barely get down the floor because he was so exhausted. What an incredible performance and he obviously gave it his all. And what a game to do it in!

Go Zoubek, Go Duke!

Zeke
02-14-2010, 10:36 AM
Not just Z but all of the bigs have a bad habit of setting moving screens. I think a violation could be called on almost all screens they set. I can remember one called on Z and another on Miles today. Moving screens are something usually corrected in highschool or JV ball. Does anybody have any insight (Jumbo?) as to why?
Not to take away anything from Z's game today - it was awesome - but moving screens are something that can be a stopper in a close game.

CameronBornAndBred
02-14-2010, 11:25 AM
So a big deal was made about yesterday being Zoub's first start of the season, which I'm sure is true since so many reported it. However...I could swear he started the second half against the holes (which is why I was thinking he actually started the game). I had some good beverages Wednesday night..but not so much that I was seeing things. Does anyone else know if he did indeed start the second at the Dean Dome? If he didn't, then Miles got yanked with less than a minute ticked off the clock.

MChambers
02-14-2010, 11:34 AM
So a big deal was made about yesterday being Zoub's first start of the season, which I'm sure is true since so many reported it. However...I could swear he started the second half against the holes (which is why I was thinking he actually started the game). I had some good beverages Wednesday night..but not so much that I was seeing things. Does anyone else know if he did indeed start the second at the Dean Dome? If he didn't, then Miles got yanked with less than a minute ticked off the clock.

I'm sure he started the second half of that game.

Kedsy
02-14-2010, 02:45 PM
So a big deal was made about yesterday being Zoub's first start of the season, which I'm sure is true since so many reported it. However...I could swear he started the second half against the holes (which is why I was thinking he actually started the game). I had some good beverages Wednesday night..but not so much that I was seeing things. Does anyone else know if he did indeed start the second at the Dean Dome? If he didn't, then Miles got yanked with less than a minute ticked off the clock.

Z definitely started the second half of the UNC game. He did not start the first half of that game, however.

Kedsy
02-14-2010, 02:52 PM
The second half Md committed a man to drop down to help if Z seemed to have position, but there still were opportunities that he never even gave a glance to see if they were there.

I think that this is a coaching choice and a bad one. The commitment to an inside game needs to persist beyond the first 5 minutes, and Z needs to be encouraged to look for lanes or angles where he can catch and go.

I know this is a hazardous endeavor, but I'm going to disagree with Greybeard a little. Once the other team is double-teaming Brian Zoubek, the battle is won and our offense is golden. If two guys are watching the Big Z, it means (a) none of the big three can be doubled; and (b) the 5th offensive player has nobody on him at all, and Lance, Mason, Andre, and Ryan are all pretty good at converting when completely uncovered. If the opponent stops doubling Z because they're getting killed everywhere else, we can re-commit to pushing it inside.

Having said that, I really like pounding the post early, if there's any chance it would convince the other team to double-team our big man.

MChambers
02-14-2010, 03:05 PM
I know this is a hazardous endeavor, but I'm going to disagree with Greybeard a little. Once the other team is double-teaming Brian Zoubek, the battle is won and our offense is golden. If two guys are watching the Big Z, it means (a) none of the big three can be doubled; and (b) the 5th offensive player has nobody on him at all, and Lance, Mason, Andre, and Ryan are all pretty good at converting when completely uncovered. If the opponent stops doubling Z because they're getting killed everywhere else, we can re-commit to pushing it inside.

Having said that, I really like pounding the post early, if there's any chance it would convince the other team to double-team our big man.

But how nice was it to see Zoubs looking to score, from the outset of the game? I even remember one possession late in the first half (I think) where he made a move to the basket and could have thrown it to Andre for a wide-open 3. I was saying "no" and then the ball went in the basket.

Kedsy
02-14-2010, 03:14 PM
But how nice was it to see Zoubs looking to score, from the outset of the game? I even remember one possession late in the first half (I think) where he made a move to the basket and could have thrown it to Andre for a wide-open 3. I was saying "no" and then the ball went in the basket.

It was great, I loved it. I'm in no way saying we should look to Z less; I'm just saying that if Z looks good enough in the first few minutes to convince the other team to double-team him, it almost doesn't matter what we do the rest of the game. With our personnel, if our opponent has to double our center, our team will be very hard to stop.

OldSchool
02-14-2010, 03:18 PM
Can we give some props to Lance on feeding Z for some of those big baskets he had?

Brian's first basket, for example. Lance has the ball and is being guarded at the 3 point line on the right wing. Brian momentarily seals his man under the basket and Lance IMMEDIATELY, with no hesitation, tosses a perfect pass over both defenders to Brian who catches and keeps the ball high to avoid the help side defender and scores.

I have seen countless times when Brian establishes the same position and the guard with the ball will look him off and pass it back around the perimeter, or wait for Brian to come out and set a high ball screen for him. Kudos to Lance.

On Brian's third basket, Lance has the ball near the elbow and drives his man to the rim, where he attracts the help defender, freeing Brian momentarily. Lance immediately scoops the ball to the open Z who lays it in.

That is what I have been waiting for Kyle to do more of - drive his defender to the rim, force the help to come over and rack up assists by feeding the resulting open big.

And by the way Brian's second basket (which Lance did not assist on) was a classic big man post move executed beautifully - with the ball on the low post and his defender sealed on his hip, Z does one dribble and a drop step into the middle of the lane and goes right up over the defender to score. Very smooth.

MChambers
02-14-2010, 03:28 PM
Can we give some props to Lance on feeding Z for some of those big baskets he had?

Brian's first basket, for example. Lance has the ball and is being guarded at the 3 point line on the right wing. Brian momentarily seals his man under the basket and Lance IMMEDIATELY, with no hesitation, tosses a perfect pass over both defenders to Brian who catches and keeps the ball high to avoid the help side defender and scores.

I have seen countless times when Brian establishes the same position and the guard with the ball will look him off and pass it back around the perimeter, or wait for Brian to come out and set a high ball screen for him. Kudos to Lance.

On Brian's third basket, Lance has the ball near the elbow and drives his man to the rim, where he attracts the help defender, freeing Brian momentarily. Lance immediately scoops the ball to the open Z who lays it in.

That is what I have been waiting for Kyle to do more of - drive his defender to the rim, force the help to come over and rack up assists by feeding the resulting open big.

And by the way Brian's second basket (which Lance did not assist on) was a classic big man post move executed beautifully - with the ball on the low post and his defender sealed on his hip, Z does one dribble and a drop step into the middle of the lane and goes right up over the defender to score. Very smooth.

Pretty sure Lance's early free throws came after a pass from Brian. Maybe this is a point of emphasis in practice.

I would think these guys could have continued success scoring down low in the next two games.

greybeard
02-14-2010, 05:03 PM
I know this is a hazardous endeavor, but I'm going to disagree with Greybeard a little. Once the other team is double-teaming Brian Zoubek, the battle is won and our offense is golden. If two guys are watching the Big Z, it means (a) none of the big three can be doubled; and (b) the 5th offensive player has nobody on him at all, and Lance, Mason, Andre, and Ryan are all pretty good at converting when completely uncovered. If the opponent stops doubling Z because they're getting killed everywhere else, we can re-commit to pushing it inside.

Having said that, I really like pounding the post early, if there's any chance it would convince the other team to double-team our big man.

I agree completely that once a team has to commit someone to double on Z they are in big trouble. Thought I said that, but, if not, absolutely! I think everyone on the team needs to get comfortable going inside as an option so that in tight games, when people settle on stopping the big three, what is proven will work will be an option because it will have worked a lot more than it has, if you get my drift, so I think we are on the same page all the way around. ;)

Kedsy
02-14-2010, 05:08 PM
I agree completely that once a team has to commit someone to double on Z they are in big trouble. Thought I said that, but, if not, absolutely! I think everyone on the team needs to get comfortable going inside as an option so that in tight games, when people settle on stopping the big three, what is proven will work will be an option because it will have worked a lot more than it has, if you get my drift, so I think we are on the same page all the way around. ;)

Then we all finally agree. Drinks are on me.

Indoor66
02-14-2010, 05:26 PM
Then we all finally agree. Drinks are on me.

Bookbinder's for lunch. :)

Kedsy
02-14-2010, 10:29 PM
Bookbinder's for lunch. :)

Nah, that's mostly for tourists. We can do better.

JEA
02-15-2010, 09:40 AM
From this morning's article (http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=457):

Through some kind of communications mix-up, the referees in this game did not call fouls on Brian Zoubek on every Duke defensive possession, meaning the senior could actually attempt shots, run up and down the floor, etc. A 16-17 double-double was the result.

left_hook_lacey
02-15-2010, 10:33 AM
I first want to congratulate Z, he played a hell of a game, BUT I'd also like to point out that maryland lacks size. He DID show a glimpse with his block against carolina, but I would like to postpone the coronation until he does things against able big men.


Thank you Z.

I agree. I was cringing while reading some of the posts about this being Z's coming out game and the like.

I was as delighted as anyone that he could contribute that much in this game, but let's not get carried away. I think we all know that anytime Z has a game like this it's just a bonus. We have to be careful that we're not setting ourselves up for a big disappointment if we expect this to become the norm from the big guy. Unless he has those kind of numbers over the next 3-4 games, I think we should count our blessings, tip our hats, and say "thanks big guy".

The excitment about the dunk is almost embarrasing to me. He should be dunking, he's 7ft tall. Let's not make a holiday out of it on the one occasion that he actually grabs the rim.

CameronBornAndBred
02-15-2010, 11:16 AM
The excitment about the dunk is almost embarrasing to me. He should be dunking, he's 7ft tall. Let's not make a holiday out of it on the one occasion that he actually grabs the rim.


"They were such uplifting buckets," Krzyzewski said. "He was even playing above the rim. I'm going to try to figure out what he did last night and what he had for training meal (today). "



If he (JJ Redick) thought that was incredible, then there's no telling what went through his head with 17:05 to play when Zoubek delivered the signature play of the afternoon. It came after a missed Kyle Singler 3-pointer caromed harmlessly into the air.
Yet Zoubek maneuvered through the lane like a snow plow, sprung a good 14 inches off the ground and delivered a vicious tip dunk.
Duke led 48-26. The Cameron Crazies were in hysterics.
Scheyer couldn't believe his eyes.
"I seriously had to take a double-look," he said. "I didn't know who that was."

Both quotes from here..http://www.fayobserver.com/Articles/2010/02/14/976145

So Coach K and Scheyer, and the entire population of Cameron that day should be embarrassed too? Just because you are tall does not mean you should be able to dunk. By your reasoning he should handle the opening tip every game, too. Sorry, Debbie Downer, but it's a rare event and worth celebrating. I also doubt (at least I haven't read it in this thread) that anyone expects a repeat performance, but what is a fact is that Zoubs has steadily improved over the course of this season, earning him the start of that game. Whether he puts up 16 points or 6, we have been a better team with him on the court.

Kedsy
02-15-2010, 11:28 AM
Whether he puts up 16 points or 6, we have been a better team with him on the court.

This is the key, IMO, and the plus/minus numbers have borne this out all year. There was one moment in the Maryland game where the Terps were making a little run, and I thought to myself, what happened to our defense? Then I looked more carefully and neither Z nor Lance were on the floor. They subbed in and the run ended and Duke's lead shot back up. I don't think it was a coincidence.

Newton_14
02-15-2010, 11:36 AM
I first want to congratulate Z, he played a hell of a game, BUT I'd also like to point out that maryland lacks size. He DID show a glimpse with his block against carolina, but I would like to postpone the coronation until he does things against able big men.


In reality the fact that this happened against a smaller/quicker team like Maryland made it all the more impressive. This is exactly the type of team that Zoubs has struggled with the last 2 years. Teams like this were able to spread the floor and exploit Brian's lack of quickness needed to guard smaller players and take advantage of his size.

Since late last year Brian has had his better games against teams with size. He was a key player in the ACC Championship game last year with his defense against a huge FSU frontline.

Maryland was unable to exploit Brian in any way in that game and instead he exploited their lack of size in a big way. Something he is finally able to do through a lot of hard work and improvement. He has had a good year and this was a breakout game of sorts. No one is saying he is going to post double doubles the rest of the way, but like he has much of the year I think it is fair to expect him to continue to be a great offensive rebounder and a presence inside on defense.

To try to pooh pooh away his performance on Saturday is an injustice to the young man. Give the kid his due. He earned it in a very important game.

loldevilz
02-15-2010, 01:06 PM
Zoubs has really elevated his energy level this year IMO. The play that stands out in my mind was the block he made against UNC when he sprinted back after a miss. I simply don't remember anything like it from 2009 and before.

It will be horribly disappointing if this game is just a fluke because we are so desperately in need of a big man to step up. The big X-factor I think for most is whether or not the big men will give us a fully balanced offense. Zoubs showed us he's fully capable. Let's just cross our fingers and hope for the best. He knows all eyes will be on him next game.

DukeAppWV
02-15-2010, 02:07 PM
I called one of my other old-head Duke buddies right after the game and said - See, I've been telling you for 2 years that Zoo can deliver if given the playing time - I am happy for him - he seems to be a true Team First guy ----

GraniteDuke
02-15-2010, 02:33 PM
Congratulations to Brian for a great game. When the refs have let him stay on the floor he has been doing a great job on defense and done a lot of the dirty work for the offense.

He is the 5th option on offense most of the time when his is on the floor so any points he scores are a bonus. We can (and have) argued about the wisdom of that but it is what it is so I agree with those expressing reservations that he is going to suddenly become a large point producer on offense the rest of the year.

Perhaps his success and the team's success against Maryland might cause the big three to give him and the other bigs a few more touches in the paint which would be a good thing come tournament time.

Gargoyle
02-15-2010, 06:01 PM
Take a look at the picture in this article.

http://www.diamondbackonline.com/sports/same-old-story-1.1152804

greybeard
02-15-2010, 07:50 PM
The key for this team is to make Z and the other bigs go-to options at key moments. That will take everybody getting better at their roles; more experience brings trust, and no team wins without trust. No team. It is time to trust the bigs, especially the seniors, but not only then. Let them be full participants. It might just win a championship, and even if it doesn't, it will honor the game, a game meant to be played by 5 and not 3. Go Duke!

Jumbo
02-17-2010, 08:57 PM
I know some of you out there must have photoshop skills. How about photoshopping the Superman logo onto Zoubs, and chaging the S to a Z? Would like to see it here. Would love to see it even more on a big sign in Cameron.

Indoor66
02-17-2010, 08:59 PM
I know some of you out there must have photoshop skills. How about photoshopping the Superman logo onto Zoubs, and chaging the S to a Z? Would like to see it here. Would love to see it even more on a big sign in Cameron.

Great idea. I hope someone does this and that I get to see in on TV on Saturday....err - make that Sunday.

Jumbo
02-17-2010, 09:00 PM
The key for this team is to make Z and the other bigs go-to options at key moments. That will take everybody getting better at their roles; more experience brings trust, and no team wins without trust. No team. It is time to trust the bigs, especially the seniors, but not only then. Let them be full participants. It might just win a championship, and even if it doesn't, it will honor the game, a game meant to be played by 5 and not 3. Go Duke!

I don't think "go-to" is the right phrase. It's overkill. What's needed is what we saw tonight -- enough touches that they feel a part of the offense. Sometimes, those touches will lead to baskets for the bigs, like when Zoubs sealed his man and Kelly hit him for a pair of layups. Sometimes those touches will lead to baskets for others, like when Zoubs hitting a cutting Kyle for a layups. Sometimes those touches will just relieve pressure on the Big 3 for a moment. Duke's bigs still need to be, first and foremost, screeners and offensive rebounders. But getting them more touches in the flow of the offense -- not necessarily just throwing the ball to them on the block and letting them go to work, but at the elbow, in motion, etc. -- will help everyone.

Rudy
02-17-2010, 09:04 PM
A nifty left hook move to score in the first half. A great spin move to his right in the second half, but he launched it about 2 feet past the rim. But at least he's making those moves and hopefully will convert more of them as the season progresses. Great hustle in this Miami game. The five steals are as impressive as the rest of his game. And another game with long minutes without fouling out! He did a credible job defensively on Collins, who is a very good player, quick and strong.

CameronBornAndBred
02-17-2010, 09:13 PM
Another great game by Brian tonight...I loved his defense.

Kedsy
02-17-2010, 11:59 PM
But at least he's making those moves and hopefully will convert more of them as the season progresses.

I know your post was generally positive but I have a minor quibble: Z shot 4 for 5 tonight -- how many more was he supposed to convert?

Classof06
02-18-2010, 01:30 PM
I've got to take the time out to commend Zoubek on the way he's been playing lately. He's been very good defensively and on the boards all season, but his offense has really picked up over the past few games.

Brian did some things against Miami that I'd never seen from him. He executed a dropstep power move for a layup last night and I almost jumped outta my window; I'd been waiting to see that for 3.5 years.

Better late than never, but Zoubek is looking more and more legit each outing. If Brian (or Lance, Mason or Miles, for that matter) can consistently score around 10 points for Duke each game, both the prospects and complexion of this team totally change.


Kudos to Brian and keep up the good work!!!

loldevilz
02-18-2010, 01:43 PM
Does anyone think that the better play by Zoubs has helped Kyle and that Kyle's play has also helped Zoubs?

I've been noticing that the last few games Zoubs and Kyle often work well together. When Zoubs catches the ball at the free throw line he often gives it to Kyle who is driving towards the basket. Also when Kyle draws the double team he often gets it to a wide open Zoubs for the dunk. This is the kind of team play that I would like to see continue. If Lance or the other 4 works on his screening and movement the Kyle-Zoubs duo could be very effective.

There are some good examples of this in the highlights from Miami. http://www.youtube.com/user/DukeBluePlanet#p/u/0/rchGyl4eYCU

Channing
02-18-2010, 02:20 PM
I have certainly been one of zoubek's harshest critics, but he has made me eat my words the last two games. In fact, it started with the last play of the BC game, where he really made a heady play to close out on the open shooter (Trapagni) and forced him to alter his shot at the buzzer, even though that wasnt his man.

Hopefully seeing some of these shots go down will build his confidence, and he will feel more comfortable just reacting, rather than thinking about his offensive moves. The back down and spin to his left last night was beautiful.

CrazieDUMB
02-18-2010, 02:24 PM
Without Beard:

9.9 Min/Game, 56% FG%, 3.6 PPG, 12.6 reb per 40 min

With Beard:

16 Min/Game, 62% FG%, 5.5 PPG, 16.4 reb per 40 min


The beard has superpowers. It's science

CDu
02-18-2010, 02:39 PM
I don't think "go-to" is the right phrase. It's overkill. What's needed is what we saw tonight -- enough touches that they feel a part of the offense. Sometimes, those touches will lead to baskets for the bigs, like when Zoubs sealed his man and Kelly hit him for a pair of layups. Sometimes those touches will lead to baskets for others, like when Zoubs hitting a cutting Kyle for a layups. Sometimes those touches will just relieve pressure on the Big 3 for a moment. Duke's bigs still need to be, first and foremost, screeners and offensive rebounders. But getting them more touches in the flow of the offense -- not necessarily just throwing the ball to them on the block and letting them go to work, but at the elbow, in motion, etc. -- will help everyone.

Agreed. Let's not try to force them into something that they are not. But we absolutely need to get them involved. And if we can find ways to create easy baskets for them, all the better. Getting great post feeds (like the one Kelly had to Zoubs) are great. Getting good spacing to create alleyoop opportunities for the Plumlees are great. But all of it needs to be in the flow of the offense - not forced or "go-to."

greybeard
02-18-2010, 04:24 PM
Agreed. Let's not try to force them into something that they are not. But we absolutely need to get them involved. And if we can find ways to create easy baskets for them, all the better. Getting great post feeds (like the one Kelly had to Zoubs) are great. Getting good spacing to create alleyoop opportunities for the Plumlees are great. But all of it needs to be in the flow of the offense - not forced or "go-to."

If the other team knows that deep into the second half, or even earlier, you will not look to "go to" your Big inside, you are at a decided disadvantage. You are playing with a hand, and now we see that it is a potent hand, tied behind your back. That is not good.

I blieve that you and Jumbo and probably others do not believe that what you have seen is actually reflective of Z's ability. If that is so, say it. If it ain't, then saying that the rest of the team should not be looking to "go to" Zoubek makes no sense to me. None. So, I think that you still see Z as substandard. What he would need to do to disprove that in your mind, I do not know.

I see the inside game in simpler but much more diverse terms than you do. I wonder, is it a good idea to "go to" Singler in the end if he is shooting 20-30 percent for the game. If it is there, of course, I believe in both our views.

We continue to have different perceptions of what is needed to create potency for the Bigs. I believe that it takes a commitment to getting them the ball with advantage and looking for them to lead the way to that advantage.

The only difference now from our debates in the past is that someone on the Duke bench, and I have to believe it is K not his assistants, has finally decided to, how did he put it the other day, coach the way he did at the start. Z has proven that it works. Now the question is how much do you trust it.

I say it is worth even a loss or two, and I do not think that will happen, to find out. I think that the chances of going deep in the tournaments depend on there being that option down the stretch in close games.

Jumbo
02-18-2010, 05:05 PM
If the other team knows that deep into the second half, or even earlier, you will not look to "go to" your Big inside, you are at a decided disadvantage. You are playing with a hand, and now we see that it is a potent hand, tied behind your back. That is not good.

I blieve that you and Jumbo and probably others do not believe that what you have seen is actually reflective of Z's ability. If that is so, say it. If it ain't, then saying that the rest of the team should not be looking to "go to" Zoubek makes no sense to me. None. So, I think that you still see Z as substandard. What he would need to do to disprove that in your mind, I do not know.

I see the inside game in simpler but much more diverse terms than you do. I wonder, is it a good idea to "go to" Singler in the end if he is shooting 20-30 percent for the game. If it is there, of course, I believe in both our views.

We continue to have different perceptions of what is needed to create potency for the Bigs. I believe that it takes a commitment to getting them the ball with advantage and looking for them to lead the way to that advantage.

The only difference now from our debates in the past is that someone on the Duke bench, and I have to believe it is K not his assistants, has finally decided to, how did he put it the other day, coach the way he did at the start. Z has proven that it works. Now the question is how much do you trust it.

I say it is worth even a loss or two, and I do not think that will happen, to find out. I think that the chances of going deep in the tournaments depend on there being that option down the stretch in close games.

I still don't think you are understanding that we agree on 95% of the same stuff. You're using some odd language to describe essentially what I'm saying. For instance, I don't think you understand that when I refer to Zoubek "sealing" a defender, it's the same thing you're describing in a long paragraph about "advantage play" and such.

The only place where we don't agree is in late-game execution. All teams go to their best players late in the game. If Zoubek is wide open, give him the ball. But I don't want him creating offense late, because he has a high turnover rate, is a poor free throw shooter and there are three guys who are significantly better basketball players out there who I'd rather see shooting the ball.

Jumbo
02-18-2010, 05:05 PM
I know some of you out there must have photoshop skills. How about photoshopping the Superman logo onto Zoubs, and chaging the S to a Z? Would like to see it here. Would love to see it even more on a big sign in Cameron.

So does anyone have the skill to execute this?

greybeard
02-18-2010, 05:33 PM
I still don't think you are understanding that we agree on 95% of the same stuff. You're using some odd language to describe essentially what I'm saying. For instance, I don't think you understand that when I refer to Zoubek "sealing" a defender, it's the same thing you're describing in a long paragraph about "advantage play" and such.

The only place where we don't agree is in late-game execution. All teams go to their best players late in the game. If Zoubek is wide open, give him the ball. But I don't want him creating offense late, because he has a high turnover rate, is a poor free throw shooter and there are three guys who are significantly better basketball players out there who I'd rather see shooting the ball.

Your first paragraph is revisionism, but I'm glad that you've come around, somewhat. Your conception articulated many times here was that Zoubek could not seal his man aka Shelden, Boozer etc., and then finish. I have always said that the inside game does not require that, that Z sees space/advantage well, and came to Duke with a highly developed ability to create it--that the fault, dear Jumbo, lied with the insistance of the littles on waiting until the defender was on his back and he had his butt in them, sealing them off. You were a defender of that practice, which continued with a few abberations until recently.

If you see things differently now, fine.

Good teams go to where they can be most effective. If you do not make a team defend the basket late into a game you defange your offense in my opinion. I do not believe that you can stop someone like Z one on one if you are looking for him in advantage (sorry, the term is more appropriate). If a team is unworried about Z or another big's getting it close down the wire with advantage, I do not think Duke can go deep. I just don't.

As for team's going to their strengths, the difference between the Bulls when Chris's Dad coached them and when the Zen Master coached them refutes that argument. See Hoop Dreams and comments by Bill Cartwright as to why the Bulls turned into a Championship team.

Kedsy
02-18-2010, 06:22 PM
So does anyone have the skill to execute this?

I could possibly do it. What Zoubek photo do you think we should use?

CDu
02-18-2010, 08:05 PM
I blieve that you and Jumbo and probably others do not believe that what you have seen is actually reflective of Z's ability. If that is so, say it. If it ain't, then saying that the rest of the team should not be looking to "go to" Zoubek makes no sense to me. None. So, I think that you still see Z as substandard. What he would need to do to disprove that in your mind, I do not know.

I don't think Zoubek is substandard. I think he has limitations. There's a big difference. And I didn't say we shouldn't go to Zoubek. I said we shouldn't force Zoubek to be a "go to" guy. That's a terminology difference. I agree that when Zoubek has great position and a clear angle to score, we should make the effort to get him the ball. But that's not what a "go to" presence is. I think the issue is terminology.


I see the inside game in simpler but much more diverse terms than you do.

With all due respect, I think that this is an incredibly presumptuous thing to say. I don't presume to know the degree of complexity nor the level of diversity of your view of the game, nor should you mine.


We continue to have different perceptions of what is needed to create potency for the Bigs. I believe that it takes a commitment to getting them the ball with advantage and looking for them to lead the way to that advantage.

I actually do not think we have very different views on this. Just different ways of saying it. What I believe you're saying is that when Zoubek is in strong scoring position (i.e., sealed his man), we should get him the ball. I agree with this wholeheartedly, and always have. Perhaps the problem is that you are misinterpreting my opinion. Perhaps the problem is my misunderstanding your opinion. Perhaps the problem is on both of us.

Newton_14
02-18-2010, 09:01 PM
I think the most important thing is the flow of the offense and insuring the ball flows through all 5 guys on the floor consistently with the catches of each coming in positions on the floor where they are a threat to score or assist. That is the key. And we are seeing more and more of this each game. Which is great to see. We just need it to go to the next level.

We have 3 primary scorers who have proven they can give 15 to 20+ on a consistent basis game in and game out. With that, we do not need 15-20 from Zoubs or Mason or Lance etc. However we do need supplemental points obviously from the other guys in the rotation. And in any given game it would be a tremendous boost to have a 4th scorer emerge to provide 10 to 12 points and it really doesn't need to be the same guy each time.

As we have seen recently if the ball is going inside to the bigs in the regular flow of the offense it opens up the floor and the big 3 get better looks and less pressure. That helps eliminate forced shots/bad shots. Like Jumbo said in another post, it is not a case of needing to dump the ball in there to Zoubs/Miles/Mason and letting them "go to work". It is a simple matter of getting the bigs the ball in advantageous positions where they can either get an easy bucket themselves or hit a cutter through the lane, a shooter on the wing, or to simply flow the ball to the next point in the scheme.

The unc, terps, and Miami games have provided a glimpse of the offense doing exactly that. Some of the more exciting plays (exciting because it shows the offense evolving) have been:

-Zoubs hitting Kyle cutting to the hoop in the unc game
-Zoubs scoring on post catches in the lane and scoring on post moves in the terps and Miami games
-LT catching and shooting the 15 footer in rythym, LT faking the jumper and driving to draw fouls against the terps and Miami (He made a great pump-fake drive and pull up 4 footer last night where the defender flopped and the ref bit on the flop. That was a great move and finish that went to pot due to the bad call
-Kelly catching at the high post and feeding the big inside
- And finally Kyle, Nolan, Jon, and Lance hitting both Miles and Mason with easy catch and finishes on lob passes. Kyle on 2 occasions last night drove baseline drawing 2 defenders and hitting Miles and Mason once each with lob passes for easy dunks.

We need to do all of the above more often heading down the stretch. If we continue doing that and the offense evolves into what it can be, this team will be really hard to defend no matter who they are playing including the likes of Nova and Kansas. The Big 3 will still be the primary scorers but to be honest if the offensive approach evolves this way it may very well lead to all 3 increasing their ppg due to better looks for each with less hands in their face.

CDu
02-18-2010, 09:17 PM
I think the most important thing is the flow of the offense and insuring the ball flows through all 5 guys on the floor consistently with the catches of each coming in positions on the floor where they are a threat to score or assist. That is the key. And we are seeing more and more of this each game. Which is great to see. We just need it to go to the next level.

We have 3 primary scorers who have proven they can give 15 to 20+ on a consistent basis game in and game out. With that, we do not need 15-20 from Zoubs or Mason or Lance etc. However we do need supplemental points obviously from the other guys in the rotation. And in any given game it would be a tremendous boost to have a 4th scorer emerge to provide 10 to 12 points and it really doesn't need to be the same guy each time.

As we have seen recently if the ball is going inside to the bigs in the regular flow of the offense it opens up the floor and the big 3 get better looks and less pressure. That helps eliminate forced shots/bad shots. Like Jumbo said in another post, it is not a case of needing to dump the ball in there to Zoubs/Miles/Mason and letting them "go to work". It is a simple matter of getting the bigs the ball in advantageous positions where they can either get an easy bucket themselves or hit a cutter through the lane, a shooter on the wing, or to simply flow the ball to the next point in the scheme.

The unc, terps, and Miami games have provided a glimpse of the offense doing exactly that. Some of the more exciting plays (exciting because it shows the offense evolving) have been:

-Zoubs hitting Kyle cutting to the hoop in the unc game
-Zoubs scoring on post catches in the lane and scoring on post moves in the terps and Miami games
-LT catching and shooting the 15 footer in rythym, LT faking the jumper and driving to draw fouls against the terps and Miami (He made a great pump-fake drive and pull up 4 footer last night where the defender flopped and the ref bit on the flop. That was a great move and finish that went to pot due to the bad call
-Kelly catching at the high post and feeding the big inside
- And finally Kyle, Nolan, Jon, and Lance hitting both Miles and Mason with easy catch and finishes on lob passes. Kyle on 2 occasions last night drove baseline drawing 2 defenders and hitting Miles and Mason once each with lob passes for easy dunks.

We need to do all of the above more often heading down the stretch. If we continue doing that and the offense evolves into what it can be, this team will be really hard to defend no matter who they are playing including the likes of Nova and Kansas. The Big 3 will still be the primary scorers but to be honest if the offensive approach evolves this way it may very well lead to all 3 increasing their ppg due to better looks for each with less hands in their face.

Well said.

GODUKEGO
02-18-2010, 09:23 PM
Check out the link: http://www.dukeblueplanet.com/duke-roster.asp

Make sure you read Zoub's, Crazies may not know. If he were NCAA president for a day, he would adjust the rules on moving screens. Gotta love that one!!!

greybeard
02-18-2010, 10:54 PM
I don't think Zoubek is substandard. I think he has limitations. There's a big difference. And I didn't say we shouldn't go to Zoubek. I said we shouldn't force Zoubek to be a "go to" guy. That's a terminology difference. I agree that when Zoubek has great position and a clear angle to score, we should make the effort to get him the ball. But that's not what a "go to" presence is. I think the issue is terminology..

This is doublespeak. You have bashed Zoubek since day one and, like Jumbo, conceive of inside play as a strength/leaping game. You have said so dozens and dozens of time--that Z lacks the strength to seal a defender; lacks the hands, coordination, footwork to finish after catches, etc. I, on the other hand, have always maintained that there is another way to be effective in the pivot and that Zoubek has displayed the key tools to create advantage since day one.

Now that some people have decided to get him the ball where he needs to reach for it and has called for it, he has proven his ability to finish, either with a bounce or not, depending on the circumstances he is confronted with. He sees the game well from the inside and when people try to read his leads good things happen.

You still measure his ability by the constricted game imposed on him by the system Duke employed and the demonstrable unwillingness or inability of Duke's outside players, since Z has arrived, to adapt themselves to Z's game and give him a chance to succeed at it. Finally, we have seen what he can do with a passer like Kelly and K's support for doing something other than treating Z like he has to be something he is not, that would be a power center in the mold of Shelden et al.

I did not say that Zoubek needs great position and a clear angle to score; what I have maintained since day one is that if the guards read what Zoubek is creating and throw the ball where he can get it with advantage he will do the rest. That does not mean that he needs to be open, yadayada. When he catches it he will know; if it is not there, he gets it back out.


With all due respect, I think that this is an incredibly presumptuous thing to say. I don't presume to know the degree of complexity nor the level of diversity of your view of the game, nor should you mine.

You are kidding here, right. You have belittled my perspectives regarding Z's ability to play the pivot since day one. You have also belittled my perspective that the problem with Z's inside game lied with the unwillingness or inability of Duke's outside players to get the ball inside to suit Z's style. On the other side, you have made your perspective--that Z lacked the tools to be a competent center--clear since day one. More about this below.


I actually do not think we have very different views on this. Just different ways of saying it. What I believe you're saying is that when Zoubek is in strong scoring position (i.e., sealed his man), we should get him the ball. I agree with this wholeheartedly, and always have. Perhaps the problem is that you are misinterpreting my opinion. Perhaps the problem is my misunderstanding your opinion. Perhaps the problem is on both of us.

I do not think that Z needs to seal anybody to score and have repeatedly said so. He needs to get the ball on the move toward advantage. Whether he is standing still before the ball goes or is already on the move is irrelevant. What has not been acceptible from my perspective is for a passer to wait until the defense has arrived and starts pushing on Z from behind and expect him to be able to finish. That is not his game. You saw that as the only way to play the position; I have maintained that it is not.

That is not to say that Z should not get the ball with a guy on his back. I think he should get it when he is in dangerous position or even not so great position as long as there is not someone to double in front of him. I think that those touches will create inside out play that Duke has sorely lacked since Shelden left (they had a little from McRob but his receptions from a sealed position were impeded by his inability, I believe because of his back, to come to the ball when holding off a defender with his butt). I also think that if Z's position is deep enough, he has a better than 50 percent chance to score or get fouled should he decide to go. Does none of this sound familiar to you? We have been arguing these points for years.

In fact we still are. You insist that Z needs to occupy "strong scoring position" in order to score and I maintain that it is just such a perspective that has held Zoubek back. You think the passer should essentially dictate the play and I think that the decision-making responsibility should be shared, and that Z's judgments should be given deference absence a presence that the guard sees and Z apparently does not. He is the one who feels when he is ready and where he needs to get the ball. You see him setting his guy up, you should be reading what he sees and the ball should meet him where the advantage will be. Too very different views of how the PIVOT position should be played and Z's aptitude and ability to play it. With all due respect.

Jumbo
02-18-2010, 11:08 PM
Your first paragraph is revisionism, but I'm glad that you've come around, somewhat. Your conception articulated many times here was that Zoubek could not seal his man aka Shelden, Boozer etc., and then finish. I have always said that the inside game does not require that, that Z sees space/advantage well, and came to Duke with a highly developed ability to create it--that the fault, dear Jumbo, lied with the insistance of the littles on waiting until the defender was on his back and he had his butt in them, sealing them off. You were a defender of that practice, which continued with a few abberations until recently.

If you see things differently now, fine.

Good teams go to where they can be most effective. If you do not make a team defend the basket late into a game you defange your offense in my opinion. I do not believe that you can stop someone like Z one on one if you are looking for him in advantage (sorry, the term is more appropriate). If a team is unworried about Z or another big's getting it close down the wire with advantage, I do not think Duke can go deep. I just don't.

As for team's going to their strengths, the difference between the Bulls when Chris's Dad coached them and when the Zen Master coached them refutes that argument. See Hoop Dreams and comments by Bill Cartwright as to why the Bulls turned into a Championship team.

I'm sorry, but it's clear that you have absolutely no idea what the term "seal" actually means in the post. The things guys like Williams and Boozer could do in the post had absolutely nothing to do with simply sealing their man. That's all -- the fact that you can't even understand the simple things I'm writing is incredibly frustrating, particularly when you don't even realize that we've almost always been in agreement.

Jumbo
02-18-2010, 11:29 PM
I could possibly do it. What Zoubek photo do you think we should use?

Here are a few options:

http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/brian-zoubek-of-the-duke-blue-devils.jpg

http://cdn.picapp.com/ftp/Images/9/b/d/2/Connecticut_v_Duke_9b4a.jpg

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/83769691.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5483D9807EB57688BE3 31D63315F0237F65F7C65786188D0A96E30A760B0D811297


Maybe this before he comes out of the phone booth: http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics/528/JD/JDBDVQWLNWHJGXM.20091009184033.jpg

CDu
02-18-2010, 11:52 PM
This is doublespeak. You have bashed Zoubek since day one and, like Jumbo, conceive of inside play as a strength/leaping game. You have said so dozens and dozens of time--that Z lacks the strength to seal a defender; lacks the hands, coordination, footwork to finish after catches, etc. I, on the other hand, have always maintained that there is another way to be effective in the pivot and that Zoubek has displayed the key tools to create advantage since day one.

You are overstating my criticisms of Zoubek's skills. I have definitely said that his physical limitations prevented him from being a consistent go-to scorer. I have in the past said he didn't have the lower-body strength and balance to maintain great position in the post. And I still believe those limitations were evident in previous years. It's never been an issue of "skill" for me with Zoubek. Just an issue of athleticism limitations and maybe some confidence (related to those limitations). But he's gotten stronger this year (probably due to finally being somewhat healthy), and he's gotten better. He's not the same player he was three years ago, and he's not the same player he was even last year.


You are kidding here, right. You have belittled my perspectives regarding Z's ability to play the pivot since day one. You have also belittled my perspective that the problem with Z's inside game lied with the unwillingness or inability of Duke's outside players to get the ball inside to suit Z's style. On the other side, you have made your perspective--that Z lacked the tools to be a competent center--clear since day one. More about this below.

"Belittled" isn't remotely accurate. You have a real tendency for theatrics in discussion, and reaching to extremes. I've called you on that for sure. Beyond that, I've merely disagreed with the extent to which you think Zoubek has been effective. I'm sorry that you have taken such offense to disagreement.

Further, you continue to misstate my opinion and comments. I have never said Zoubek doesn't have the tools to be a competent center. I have said in the past he has physical limitations that prevent him from being effective. I think that's a big difference. And I still stand by those comments about him in previous years. But physically, he's getting stronger, and he's shedding some of those limitations. I think he's a very competent center right now - just inconsistent.


You think the passer should essentially dictate the play and I think that the decision-making responsibility should be shared, and that Z's judgments should be given deference absence a presence that the guard sees and Z apparently does not. He is the one who feels when he is ready and where he needs to get the ball. You see him setting his guy up, you should be reading what he sees and the ball should meet him where the advantage will be. Too very different views of how the PIVOT position should be played and Z's aptitude and ability to play it. With all due respect.

Again, you mistate my opinion. I don't think that the passer should dictate the decision-making process universally. I think that the passer should dictate that responsibility when the post guy struggles with making plays. In the past, this was definitely a problem for Zoubek. And that's why I said he should only get the ball in "gimme" scoring chances.

The fact is that I've gotten much more comfortable with Zoubek getting touches this year. He's earning them with better ability to avoid losing his balance and committing turnovers/fouls. But that doesn't make him a go-to scorer. That makes him a functional part of the offense. Again - I think our disagreement at this point is due to differing use of the term "go to."

-jk
02-19-2010, 09:05 AM
Folks, please take a deep breath and step away from the ledge. Let's keep it civil.

-jk

greybeard
02-19-2010, 09:11 AM
CDu, I think that we have always had a fundamental disagreement of who bears the responsibility for what you term are Z's shortcomings and what constitutes good team use of pivot play. Those differences remain. What you see as Z's improvement, I see as the team's.

To say, as he regularly did since Z's first year, that Z was incapable of finishing inside when he created advantage, small separation and momentary momentum advantage from his defender, was Wrong when you said it then and it remains so. The team until recently insisted that Z prove that the defender was "sealed" before they threw it, which meant that they waited until the defender had recovered and was pinned on Z's back. They then threw the ball to his middle. From that position, Z struggled, as would many, many successful pivot players, unless they got a lot of touches and the ball came when they had the defender wrong footed and chose to go. Z never had that option, never got a lot of touches; he still doesn't.

I do not misunderstand you. You see Z as essentially needing to be spoon fed. I see him as capable of making really, really good athletic catches on the move and finishing, and ALWAYS have. Huge difference.

You, on the other hand, remain steadfast in your unwillingness to recognize that there is a different way to utilize pivot play then either getting to a big after he has the defender sealed (a static concept) or getting to him when he is wide open. We are now seeing some of the different way of relating to pivot play and the results have been good.

Where we agree is that we are both happy for Z and Duke that the team is getting the benefit of his more effective play. To that extent, we are on the same page.

CDu
02-19-2010, 09:34 AM
I do not misunderstand you. You see Z as essentially needing to be spoon fed. I see him as capable of making really, really good athletic catches on the move and finishing, and ALWAYS have. Huge difference.

And herein lies the rub. You say you do not misunderstand me, and then in the very next sentence you illustrate quite clearly that you DO misunderstand me. I do not think Zoubek needs to be spoon fed to be effective. I think he used to need to get the ball in very opportune situations in order to be an effective scorer. But as he's gotten healthier and stronger, he's shedding that limitation and becoming a much more effective scorer. I just don't yet consider him a "go-to scorer" yet. That's a term I apply to a guy you just dump the ball to whenever you want to get buckets/fouls (see Hansbrough, Griffin, Beasley, etc). That doesn't mean I don't think he should be more involved in the offense. I think he's developed physically to the point that he's able to utilize his skills much more effectively, and that's showing now. As I said before, the only issue I had was merely the choice of the words "go-to."

But I guess it's pointless to continue to try to explain my views of Zoubek to you, because you seem to either ignore what I'm saying or fixate on one comment/idea and extrapolate it way beyond its meaning. It's clear that I'm unable to clearly explain to you my thoughts on Zoubek, so I'll stop trying.


Where we agree is that we are both happy for Z and Duke that the team is getting the benefit of his more effective play. To that extent, we are on the same page.

I completely agree on this.

greybeard
02-19-2010, 10:02 AM
And herein lies the rub. You say you do not misunderstand me, and then in the very next sentence you illustrate quite clearly that you DO misunderstand me. I do not think Zoubek needs to be spoon fed to be effective. I think he used to need to get the ball in very opportune situations in order to be an effective scorer. But as he's gotten healthier and stronger, he's shedding that limitation and becoming a much more effective scorer. I just don't yet consider him a "go-to scorer" yet. That's a term I apply to a guy you just dump the ball to whenever you want to get buckets/fouls (see Hansbrough, Griffin, Beasley, etc). That doesn't mean I don't think he should be more involved in the offense. I think he's developed physically to the point that he's able to utilize his skills much more effectively, and that's showing now. As I said before, the only issue I had was merely the choice of the words "go-to."

But I guess it's pointless to continue to try to explain my views of Zoubek to you, because you seem to either ignore what I'm saying or fixate on one comment/idea and extrapolate it way beyond its meaning. It's clear that I'm unable to clearly explain to you my thoughts on Zoubek, so I'll stop trying.



I completely agree on this.

We are reasonably close here. I think and have always thought of Z as a Hibbert type. I do not think that Hibbert would have developed as he did had he been at Duke, any more than Z did.

I agree that Z is not a key scorer like Hansb. Few are. I think that he nevertheless should be a scoring option in the second half when it is close. I also think that you continue to undervalue distinctions in play style, which is understandable. A generational difference, reflected, I believe, in the difference between JTIII and Chris and WoJo. Incidently, K's mentor had a center who he featured who was a mirror image of Z; had red hair. Went to him often and effectively.

While we may differ, in the end, I respect very much your basketball perspectives. I envy your way with words.

CDu
02-19-2010, 10:16 AM
We are reasonably close here. I think and have always thought of Z as a Hibbert type. I do not think that Hibbert would have developed as he did had he been at Duke, any more than Z did.

And I think Zoubek's lack of development is more tied to his injuries than Duke's style. Now that he's healthy and stronger, he's more able to make strong contributions, and Duke is starting to do a better job of getting him involved. We'll have to agree to disagree here, as these are opinions based on his previous years in which we definitely disagreed. But like I said, I don't think we are currently in nearly as much disagreement as you had thought.


I agree that Z is not a key scorer like Hansb. Few are. I think that he nevertheless should be a scoring option down the stretch.

I completely agree. And I think he will be.


I also think that you continue to undervalue distinctions in play style, which is understandable. A generational difference, reflected, I believe, in the difference between JTIII and Chris and WoJo. Incidently, K's mentor had a center who he featured who was a mirror image of Z; had red hair. Went to him often and effectively.

I think you still don't quite understand my views based on the first sentence here. Again, I think our disagreements here stem from what we felt was the reason Zoubek wasn't effective in previous years and less so due to differences in opinions about styles of play.

Out of curiousity, to whom are you referring with the "red hair?" Walton? If so, I wouldn't say that he and Zoubek are mirror images. But perhaps you're just referring to the two having a similar style of game. If so, then I agree. But there's definitely a substantial skill difference between the two.

Also (and I apologize if this sounds nitpicky), wouldn't you consider Knight to be Coach K's mentor and not Wooden? If you're referring to a different redhead, then feel free to ignore these comments/questions.


While we may differ, in the end, I respect very much your basketball perspectives.

And I yours.

greybeard
02-19-2010, 10:25 AM
CDu, Bob Knight had a red haired 7 foot plus center who seemed rigid in his movements. He was not a star, but a very competent player who got many more touches than Z throughout his career, if I remember correctly, which, as you know, is always iffy. :o

CDu
02-19-2010, 10:28 AM
CDu, Bob Knight had a red haired 7 foot plus center who seemed rigid in his movements. He was not a star, but a very competent player who got many more touches than Z throughout his career, if I remember correctly, which, as you know, is always iffy. :o

Ah, okay. Disregard my Walton/Wooden comments/questions as they are clearly irrelevant here. Nothing to see there, folks. :)

Kedsy
02-19-2010, 10:49 AM
Here are a few options:

http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/brian-zoubek-of-the-duke-blue-devils.jpg

http://cdn.picapp.com/ftp/Images/9/b/d/2/Connecticut_v_Duke_9b4a.jpg

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/83769691.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5483D9807EB57688BE3 31D63315F0237F65F7C65786188D0A96E30A760B0D811297


Maybe this before he comes out of the phone booth: http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics/528/JD/JDBDVQWLNWHJGXM.20091009184033.jpg

Is this acceptable?

http://home.comcast.net/~dknofish/NCAA/Zoubek3.JPG

DukieInBrasil
02-19-2010, 10:58 AM
A while ago I stipulated that Zoubek was making a case for more PT, perhaps at a starter's level, and now K has made that a reality. I believe that Z has been playing solid ball for a while now and has deserved the chance to start for a long time. However, K made the choice to start Miles, who did a fine job for quite a while. I think Z only got the chance to finally show his stuff as a starter once Miles made it quite apparent that he was no longer making progress, and was actually playing in a way detrimental to himself and to the team. Miles is getting less PT as Z is earning more, and the quality of Miles' play may actually be improving somewhat, although he did pick up a foul every 90 seconds at Miami (4 fouls in 6 minutes). Miles has plenty of time left in a Duke uniform to reach his potential and I certainly hope he does. I am very happy for Z that he is getting a chance to be a Sr. leader by actually being on the court and leading. Though the sample size is very small (n=2), Z has been a hyper-efficient "stiff" in the post as a starter. The only thing he hasn't done particularly much of as a "C" is blocking shots; he's averaging 13pts and 11rebs to go with a total of 5 steals, 3 assists and 2 blocks in the 2 starts. Keep it up Brian!!!

ps Love the Zouperman image Kedsy!!!!!!!!

MChambers
02-19-2010, 11:02 AM
CDu, Bob Knight had a red haired 7 foot plus center who seemed rigid in his movements. He was not a star, but a very competent player who got many more touches than Z throughout his career, if I remember correctly, which, as you know, is always iffy. :o

Are you referring to Kent Benson? Not really a redhead, at least in my memory.

tbyers11
02-19-2010, 11:03 AM
CDu, Bob Knight had a red haired 7 foot plus center who seemed rigid in his movements. He was not a star, but a very competent player who got many more touches than Z throughout his career, if I remember correctly, which, as you know, is always iffy. :o

Are you referring to Uwe Blab from the early 80's?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fQO96dnj5h8/SJtzk_jmCAI/AAAAAAAAAiA/gFAIc80jTSk/s400/uweblab.jpg

greybeard
02-19-2010, 11:11 AM
Are you referring to Uwe Blab from the early 80's?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fQO96dnj5h8/SJtzk_jmCAI/AAAAAAAAAiA/gFAIc80jTSk/s400/uweblab.jpg

Bingo! Looking at this guy, who had similar structure as Z, you can see a greater suppleness through his chest and neck, yes? A touch of concaveness even while the neck seems relatively straight. Very important!

onepresent
02-19-2010, 11:44 AM
http://www.newhopesangha.org/zouperman_75dpi.jpg


A high resolution image is available.

MChambers
02-19-2010, 12:22 PM
Are you referring to Uwe Blab from the early 80's?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fQO96dnj5h8/SJtzk_jmCAI/AAAAAAAAAiA/gFAIc80jTSk/s400/uweblab.jpg

Who Chris Berman used to call "the center with the science fiction name".

CrazieDUMB
02-23-2010, 08:56 AM
While people are pleasantly surprised at how Zoubek has exploded in the last few games, I think the numbers bear out a different story. Namely, it's no so much that he's performed better (though he has), I think it has more to do with him staying out of foul trouble.

Here's Z's stats, adjusted as per 40 min. The first line is the last three games (his explosion), and the second line is all games before.

FG FGA FTM FTA PTS OFF DEF TOT AST TO STL BLK PF
6.0 8.0 2.5 3.5 14.5 10 9.0 19.0 2.5 3.0 3.0 1.5 5.0
5.3 8.7 2.3 4.8 12.9 8.0 8.2 16.3 2.1 3.1 1.3 1.8 8.9

While they're all higher, they don't suggest an explosion so much as the benefits of more playing time. The telling statistic is that he's fouling 44% percent less than he used to (8.9 to 5), which lets him stay on the floor. He's always been good, he's always been effective, but his achilles heel was that K couldn't let him on the floor.

And while people are worried about the plumblebees, I think it's not so much that they've disappeared, but rather they've been fouling too much. They're still the same people, the question will be whether they can get on the floor.

CDu
02-23-2010, 01:24 PM
While people are pleasantly surprised at how Zoubek has exploded in the last few games, I think the numbers bear out a different story. Namely, it's no so much that he's performed better (though he has), I think it has more to do with him staying out of foul trouble.

Here's Z's stats, adjusted as per 40 min. The first line is the last three games (his explosion), and the second line is all games before.

FG FGA FTM FTA PTS OFF DEF TOT AST TO STL BLK PF
6.0 8.0 2.5 3.5 14.5 10 9.0 19.0 2.5 3.0 3.0 1.5 5.0
5.3 8.7 2.3 4.8 12.9 8.0 8.2 16.3 2.1 3.1 1.3 1.8 8.9

While they're all higher, they don't suggest an explosion so much as the benefits of more playing time. The telling statistic is that he's fouling 44% percent less than he used to (8.9 to 5), which lets him stay on the floor. He's always been good, he's always been effective, but his achilles heel was that K couldn't let him on the floor.

And while people are worried about the plumblebees, I think it's not so much that they've disappeared, but rather they've been fouling too much. They're still the same people, the question will be whether they can get on the floor.

Yes, foul trouble is the biggest driver for Zoubek (in a positive sense) and is probably a big driver for the Plumlees (in a negative sense). However, fouling is a part of quality of play. Zoubek fouling less is illustrative of better quality play on his part. And the Plumlees' fouling more is illustrative of lower quality play. So I think it's still fair to say that Zoubek has exploded into a much better player, because he's now not fouling as much.

I'll also add that I suspect that Miles is also not producing as much per 40 minutes as earlier, in addition to fouling too much. I won't venture a guess on Mason, who has been much more up and down.

CameronBornAndBred
02-26-2010, 01:31 PM
From the mouth of the mountain...Wojo has done the most to help Zoubek improve.
So much for the big man coach debate, right? (HA!)

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/7125160/

Gewebe14
02-26-2010, 01:40 PM
Obviously Zoo is my favorite player and he is the man, but has there been any discussion/explanation of why his free throw %age fell from 80% last year to 50% this year? I'll take this year over last year of course, but it does seem a little odd. (yes its a small sample size, but the difference is pretty stark)

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=520

Indoor66
02-26-2010, 06:29 PM
Obviously Zoo is my favorite player and he is the man, but has there been any discussion/explanation of why his free throw %age fell from 80% last year to 50% this year? I'll take this year over last year of course, but it does seem a little odd. (yes its a small sample size, but the difference is pretty stark)

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=520


I am sure it is Wojo's fault! :rolleyes:

DukieInBrasil
02-26-2010, 06:42 PM
Z's FT% has been all over the place thru his career; as a Fr. it was decent at 67%, then fell to terrible at 45%, then rose to excellent at 83% and is at 50% this year. It is truly bizarre. I suspect that it has something to do with being a relatively low sample size each year as a) Z didn't play very many minutes and b) has never been a prolific FT shooter.

strawbs
02-26-2010, 08:17 PM
just found this article on big Z.

http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2010/02/25/brian-zoubek-at-center-of-dukes-surge/?ncid=txtlnkusspor00000002

1999ballboy
02-26-2010, 10:49 PM
You know, he DOES kind of resemble a young Christopher Reeve. Anyone with Photoshop skills, get on this. Z across the chest replacing the S, obviously.

Kedsy
02-26-2010, 10:55 PM
You know, he DOES kind of resemble a young Christopher Reeve. Anyone with Photoshop skills, get on this. Z across the chest replacing the S, obviously.

You apparently haven't read the whole thread, but there are two such attempts on this very page:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=366988&postcount=101
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=367014&postcount=106

GODUKEGO
03-02-2010, 07:57 AM
For those not in the Triangle area, the Raleigh News & Observer article.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/03/02/365464/zoubek-sees-effort-pay-off.html

greybeard
03-02-2010, 08:59 AM
Z this year has not adjusted to his new body, or perhaps I should say that he has adjusted to all the work he has done and how he habitually carries himself as a consequence is incompatible with "touch."

You will notice that this year with his core strength shoulder and neck strength greatly improved, he stands, moves, etc with his back, from sacrum to head ramrod stiff, straight. To keep his balance in that position he has moved his back foot farther back.

There is no connection between his push into the ground and the resulting animation of his arms and then release.

Compare, if you have any, pictures of him at the free throw line last year and this, or better yet, tape, and you will not recognize the same player, that is if you have a discerning eye.

Ramrod straight might be good for building muscles; it sucks as a posture for using them, especially with any nuance.

Oh, another word about ramrod straight. Zoubek now has what is tantamount to a wooden neck. Try looking up with your neck stiff while standing in a shooting position and notice where your weight shifts. To your heals. Now that is not a bad thing if there is an easy way for the weight to roll forward onto the balls of the feet as the shooting motion develops. That cannot happen with a stiff back up through the neck.

As a consequence, this big muscles, which one can develop nuance with, which one can modulate by feel, which fire slowwwwwly, are taken out of the shot. The shot is then governed by the small muscles in the arms, in particular the muscles of the forarm which govern the hands which have a hair trigger. Easy to be a little off in the timing with significant impact on the shot.

Holiday Inn Express last night.

CrazieDUMB
03-02-2010, 09:16 AM
Z this year has not adjusted to his new body, or perhaps I should say that he has adjusted to all the work he has done and how he habitually carries himself as a consequence is incompatible with "touch."

Always nice to hear the opinion of someone who has an eye for this sort of thing. In everything I've read about Z, and for all that we talk about, we never get analysis like this. Cool stuff!

BD80
03-02-2010, 12:31 PM
From the mouth of the mountain...Wojo has done the most to help Zoubek improve.
So much for the big man coach debate, right? (HA!)

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/7125160/


Zoubek did tell me that he not bringing back the famous "floor slap".

Dadgummit!

davekay1971
03-02-2010, 12:39 PM
I am sure it is Wojo's fault! :rolleyes:

Coach K will be sticking with Wojo as the big men coach, and hiring Shaq as the free-throw coach.

greybeard
03-02-2010, 01:12 PM
Coach K will be sticking with Wojo as the big men coach, and hiring Shaq as the free-throw coach.

Talking about Shaq, how comfortable does he look when he cocks his head to look at the rim from the foul line? Does he look like he can move his head easily in any direction?

Take a look at how Nowinski's head appears when he eyes the basket from the foul line. Is there a difference between how free his head looks and Shaq's?

NSDukeFan
03-02-2010, 01:41 PM
Talking about Shaq, how comfortable does he look when he cocks his head to look at the rim from the foul line? Does he look like he can move his head easily in any direction?

Take a look at how Nowinski's head appears when he eyes the basket from the foul line. Is there a difference between how free his head looks and Shaq's?

Does Shaq also have a wooden head?

Kfanarmy
03-02-2010, 03:45 PM
Z this year has not adjusted to his new body, or perhaps I should say that he has adjusted to all the work he has done and how he habitually carries himself as a consequence is incompatible with "touch." ......

What would your recommendation to Z be to attain greater accuracy and range of motion without losing strength in the Short and long term?

greybeard
03-02-2010, 09:12 PM
What would your recommendation to Z be to attain greater accuracy and range of motion without losing strength in the Short and long term?

I've already said it, take 3 or 4 hands on Feldenkrais lessons, one on one. They are called Functional Integration lessons. There is a certified Feldenkrais practitioner on the staff at Duke University Hospital as a physical therapist. Heck, they could fly be in, let me watch a couple of practices, and Zoubek would learn what softness through his spine, rib cage and neck feel like, together with freedom in his pelvis hips (the hips and neck are very, very connected, you free up one, you free up the other).

Short of that, this is what I'd recommend for anyone to do, as a regular warm up.

1. Lie on your back. Stand your feet so your knees are in the air. Grab each leg right below the knee, and lift your knees up towards your chest, so your thighs are roughly at right angles to your hips, and lower legs at right angles to your upper legs. Do not strain, if less than right angle is all you can do, less is fine.

2. Roll over onto your side, let's say your right side so that your left bent leg is on top of your right. SLOWLY, use your left arm to lift your left leg towards your left. Keep on moving your left leg slowly away from your right until your right leg is literally dragged off the floor. Continue all the way over to the right.

3. Go back the other way, again slowly, and so on.

4. After say four of these, as you lift your leg, let your nose keep in line with your upper leg, following your upper leg with your eyes. Keep doing slowly.

5. By and by when you reach the other side, your face will literally be looking behind you. In other words, as you come to the ground, your head will keep turning so when you get to your left side, your right cheek will be on the ground. This will elongate the spine and of course twist it, relaxing all the little muscles that help keep you erect, especially the muscles in the neck.

This will massage deeply the muscles in the buttocks and mid and upper back including shoulders. Continue ever more slowly. Very relaxing and will elimate much of the residual tension throughout the torso, hips, and inner thighs.

Do on a carpeted floor, not a deeply padded matt, and not a hard wooden floor.

Walk around some and then go to the court and shoot little shots, 2 foot shots, from the baseline, to the layup spot, front of the basket, etc. Only count those that do not hit rim, even if off backboard. Maintain the softness in the body. Make five switches from each spot.

Oh, I left out a step. After you follow your upper leg with your eyes, do the same with your head, move it in cync with your legs, but keep your eyes focusing or trying to focus in the direction away from which you are rotating. This differentiation will free up the muscles in the face, neck and shoulders dramatically. Then go back to just turning without concern for the eyes and see how freely your spine turns, your head turns at the end.

For all you golfers, great way to warm up. Spend 15 minutes. Do wonders for your swing, including tempo.

greybeard
03-07-2010, 04:43 PM
I thought that there were some very important developments against UNC. First, Z got a lot of touches that came in early in the shot clock and that were just including Z in the passing game. The ball came in easily, Z got to look around and get rid of it without rushing (he might have rushed a tad on one or two). I think that that inclusion of Z in the catch and pass game is very valuable, for him and the rest of the team.

The other thing that I saw that I found was terribly exciting was what Z did off a catch in the lower right block in the second half. In the past, if Z sought to score off such a catch, he would turn his upper torso, lean and try to create an angle for a bank shot. Rarely successful and understandably so. This time he looked over his right shoulder like he would hook to the middle with his left hand and shot a non rushed sky hook aka Kareem, maybe with a little more sweep. A THING OF BEAUTY. That play is available from a lot of catches in deep. Z and the coaches just have to create one or two of them.

Which brings me to my last point. Z has had some success in this recent run in getting inside position near the baseline and getting the ball with on a lofted lead to the basket. There were a few times when either he or Miles had that position on the left side and the passer did not get it to them. I'm fine with that.

HOWEVER, that is a killer position which not only Z and Miles need to recognize as such but the entire team does. Z and Miles should NOT give up that position, nor do they have to fight to create or maintain a passing angle. The defender is in a terrible dilema and the play should play out with an easy shot for the big. If penetration comes from the wing, the ball handler just has to read the defender whose instincts will be to come toward the ball handler to help. That is when the little lob will be available.

If the ball rotates high or to the other side, the defender will necessarily release his body lean on Z or M in order to keep his eye on what is going on. He still must defend the rim against a pass to Z or M. If he doesn't, a lob and finish (M will flush it, Z will catch and shield and finish) will follow. If Z or M make any fake toward the basket and let the defender feel it, the defnder must retreat to try to block their path. A step in front gives you a catch a foot or two in front of the basket with the defender going the wrong way.

In checkers we used to call this "a pair of pants"--king between two of the other guy's pieces. A jump is going to happen no matter what they do.

I'd like to see a little more poise when that position has been gained and a team effort at exploiting it.

When a defender gets beat like that, with the big not fighting for position, with everybody reading that he is in trouble and then squeezing for the kill, it is deflating.

We saw in the last two games passes to Z from a driving player, I think it was Singler against Maryland and it definitely was Scheyer against UNC.

Z has to continue to soften those ribs and neck, KNOW when he has advantage, and find what is easy. If he and his teammates trust that a few of these can be added to the game, oh, ditto for Miles, whom I see as playing with much greater feel, subtleness these last two games, then Duke's potency will be greatly improved, much more than the one to three baskets alone would count for.

Very impressed with Zoubek. One of the great stories of college basketball this season.

mapei
03-07-2010, 05:12 PM
Wish the ACC had a 'most improved player' award - he so deserves it.

NSDukeFan
03-08-2010, 12:41 PM
I thought that there were some very important developments against UNC. First, Z got a lot of touches that came in early in the shot clock and that were just including Z in the passing game. The ball came in easily, Z got to look around and get rid of it without rushing (he might have rushed a tad on one or two). I think that that inclusion of Z in the catch and pass game is very valuable, for him and the rest of the team.

The other thing that I saw that I found was terribly exciting was what Z did off a catch in the lower right block in the second half. In the past, if Z sought to score off such a catch, he would turn his upper torso, lean and try to create an angle for a bank shot. Rarely successful and understandably so. This time he looked over his right shoulder like he would hook to the middle with his left hand and shot a non rushed sky hook aka Kareem, maybe with a little more sweep. A THING OF BEAUTY. That play is available from a lot of catches in deep. Z and the coaches just have to create one or two of them.

Which brings me to my last point. Z has had some success in this recent run in getting inside position near the baseline and getting the ball with on a lofted lead to the basket. There were a few times when either he or Miles had that position on the left side and the passer did not get it to them. I'm fine with that.

...
Very impressed with Zoubek. One of the great stories of college basketball this season.

I also love seeing us use the post players and especially like seeing the ball going into the post, whether for a shot or not. One thing I have started wondering though is if most of the time the bigs are told not to linger long there to give our big 3 more options to penetrate. You have noted, and I agree, Mason (and Miles and Zoubs) has sometimes had position and seemed to be waved off. I hope we continue to see solid play from big Z and hope Miles and Mason get some touches inside and, more importantly, do something positive when they do get it.
I completely agree that Zoubek's emergence has been a fabulous story.

cspan37421
03-11-2010, 03:55 PM
This week's SI has a nice article on Brian Zoubek - including a very nice, large picture of Zoubs getting his Mountain Man on vs. Carolina last weekend. Check it out!

TNDukeFan
03-11-2010, 05:11 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1166988/index.htm

west_coast_devil
03-13-2010, 01:28 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/gameflash/photo_gallery/201003120173/content.10.html

good pic I saw on SI.....thought I'd share

go one picture back. Could not get the link to work right.

BD80
03-13-2010, 09:10 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/gameflash/photo_gallery/201003120173/content.10.html

good pic I saw on SI.....thought I'd share

go one picture back. Could not get the link to work right.

http://img.fannation.com/images/getty/2010/03/12/15/20100312150207017138000-gyi-660x660.jpg

BigZ
03-13-2010, 09:36 AM
If Zoubek doesn't make it in the NBA I would love to see him in the WWE. I would watch wrestling again if they had him there.

94duke
03-15-2010, 10:31 AM
http://img.fannation.com/images/getty/2010/03/12/15/20100312150207017138000-gyi-660x660.jpg

Awesome!!!

94duke
03-22-2010, 02:11 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1003/leading.off.0321/content.5.html

Kfanarmy
03-24-2010, 03:50 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2010/news/story?id=5023686


pls remove is this has already been posted, but I hadn't seen it.

Billy Dat
03-31-2010, 03:58 PM
David Thorpe wrote an ESPN insider blog post today focused on NBA draft prospects and the NCAA tournament. He ends the piece with a shout out to Zoubek, comparing him to Joel Pryzbilla and says every NBA team needs a 7 footer who runs, rebounds and fights!

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft