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View Full Version : Scott Skiles giving Brian Hill a run for his money



VaDukie
05-10-2007, 10:21 PM
As the worst coach in the playoffs.

He has yet to play Duhon. He instead seems content to watch Hinrich get burned by Billups time and time again. I know Duhon didn't play great in the first two games, but there is something to be said for fresh legs.

kydevil
05-10-2007, 10:43 PM
As the worst coach in the playoffs.

He has yet to play Duhon. He instead seems content to watch Hinrich get burned by Billups time and time again. I know Duhon didn't play great in the first two games, but there is something to be said for fresh legs.

But hey Hinrich had his best game, I mean down the stretch he played shut down defense and shot lights out... ;)

Blue KevIL
05-11-2007, 01:16 AM
By second coming of Doug Collins, I mean he may have been able to get the Bulls from Point A to Point B -- BUT -- he probably can't get them from Point B to Point C. As stunned as I was to see Collins fired after the job he did in Chicago, I cannot argue that it was wrong -- the results under Phil Jackson were amazing. Could Collins have done the same -- given the opportunity? Obviously, we'll never know.

I was at the game tonight and was very puzzled by the DNPCD for Duhon. Now I know Chris is not going to put up 30 points, but he has had a steady-ing effect for this team. Hinrich put up some stats, but he was far from steady. Hinrich seemed unsure of himself and unwilling to take the open shot. Duhon needed to play in this game tonight. This was a must win for the Bulls and Duhon is a winner.

Unbelievably, Skiles did not seem to sense the urgency of a victory tonight. It seemed like he treated this like a regular season game. The lack of adjustments and substitutions as the Bulls were blowing a 19 point 3rd quarter lead cannot be excused. Putting Duhon, Tyrus Thomas and/or Tabo Sefolosha in the game would have helped tremendously as the lead was disapppearing.

I have admired what Skiles has done with this group thus far. But tonight was an absolute disaster of a coaching job. Even with a win tonight, I don't know if the Bulls could have beaten Detroit in the series. The Bulls always play hard and don't quit, but tonight they needed leadership from the bench and I did not see that out of Skiles. It's too bad because this was still a winnable game down the stretch.

cspan37421
05-11-2007, 08:15 AM
Duhon's DNP-CD might be explained by this (despite the implication that it was still a surprise):

Chris Duhon, who missed a team film session this week, surprisingly didn't play.

"Just out, coach's decision," Skiles said.

Source: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-070510bullsbits,1,2975874.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

I think Duhon was benched a game (or much of one) earlier in the year when he missed a practice ("overslept" or something kind of weak like that). Although that's a far cry from shooting up a strip clup or beating up your S.O., it still comes as a surprise to me since Chris seems like the nicest guy around who always gives his all and doesn't complain or fail to show up.

Either Duhon is less perfect than he appears, or Skiles has obsessed too much with team rules (e.g., see link above: fining Ben Wallace for being 14 min late to pregame practice - traffic). Could be a little of both. Now showing up for a film session in the NBA playoffs though seems really unwise, assuming he had no good reason. Skiles may be a workaholic like Lawrence Frank, and the players may have tuned him out.

No excuses, really, and the Bulls' manhandling of the Heat was really impressive. But offensively they have not shown up vs. the Pistons. I understand sometimes shots just don't fall - but not breaking 35% FG% in 3 games seems a bit more than random bad luck.

Growing up, Detroit teams were my teams (talk about a longsuffering NFL fan...). But because of Duhon and Deng, I'm pulling for the Bulls in this series. Probably in vain. Looks like Boozer will have to carry the torch this year. Shame that the Clippers didn't make the playoffs.

Kind of wish some Dukies could end up on a Phil Jackson team - wonder what kind of damage they could do.

dukeENG2003
05-11-2007, 08:25 AM
doubt it, ben wallace was almost late for this game (got there about 15 minutes before tip), and still started. . .

cspan37421
05-11-2007, 08:29 AM
According to the article, Wallace got there 76 minutes before tip, rather than the 90 required. But I wasn't there, maybe you were.

DukeDevilDeb
05-11-2007, 11:36 AM
Chris is a wonderful human being... but he is also ALWAYS late and sometimes misses appointments that he has. You're right; he was disciplined for not making a practice earlier in the season... said he overslept and didn't play the next game.

Frankly, I can't imagine not taking this time of the season seriously and not showing up for a scheduled team event. I don't think Scott is a stickler... this is Chris' modus operandi much fo the time.

SilkyJ
05-11-2007, 12:10 PM
Chris is a wonderful human being... but he is also ALWAYS late and sometimes misses appointments that he has. You're right; he was disciplined for not making a practice earlier in the season... said he overslept and didn't play the next game.

Frankly, I can't imagine not taking this time of the season seriously and not showing up for a scheduled team event. I don't think Scott is a stickler... this is Chris' modus operandi much fo the time.

Scott is a bit of a stickler and takes discipline very seriously. Showing up 15 minutes late for pregame warmups is one thing. MISSING an event is another.

You are absolutely right that being late/missing stuff WAS CDu's m.o. when he was at Duke, but he had gotten much better by senior year and I'd to think 3 years later he has matured a little and become a professional. Could be wrong though...

dukeENG2003
05-11-2007, 01:37 PM
According to the article, Wallace got there 76 minutes before tip, rather than the 90 required. But I wasn't there, maybe you were.

nope, I was just trying to paraphrase what was said by the announcers last night, and I think I even screwed that up. . .

bcato
05-11-2007, 04:01 PM
Must of Been some sort of discipline. Chris played 26 minutes in game 1 and 22 minutes in game 2.

CDu
05-11-2007, 05:01 PM
I'm not sure what game you were watching, but Duhon would not have solved any problems for the Bulls last night. Moreover, Hinrich did a pretty decent job on Billups. Billups shot 7-17 from the field for 21 points. He had a solid, but not spectacular, game. Most of his points came off fadeaways or going around high screens from Rasheed Wallace. Duhon would have made little difference there.

Detroit won the game last night because they are a more versatile, deeper team. Tayshaun Prince was fantastic. Billups, Hamilton, and Wallace were solid But most importantly, the team lost because they couldn't score - not the other way around. No one was complaining when the Bulls had a 19-point lead. The game was lost in the 2nd half, in which the Pistons' defense was absolutely stifling. Duhon's strengths are defense (same as Hinrich's) and chemistry. He would not have helped against a long and athletic

As my username suggests, I'm a Duhon fan. But Duhon is, at best, the third best guard on the Bulls. And he wouldn't have addressed the problems that the Bulls faced last night in the second half. When Detroit wants to play defense, they have several very lanky athletic players that can stifle the competition. They went out and did what they wanted to do on the defensive end and took over the game.

Buckeye Devil
05-11-2007, 08:58 PM
I'm not sure what game you were watching, but Duhon would not have solved any problems for the Bulls last night. Moreover, Hinrich did a pretty decent job on Billups. Billups shot 7-17 from the field for 21 points. He had a solid, but not spectacular, game. Most of his points came off fadeaways or going around high screens from Rasheed Wallace. Duhon would have made little difference there.

Detroit won the game last night because they are a more versatile, deeper team. Tayshaun Prince was fantastic. Billups, Hamilton, and Wallace were solid But most importantly, the team lost because they couldn't score - not the other way around. No one was complaining when the Bulls had a 19-point lead. The game was lost in the 2nd half, in which the Pistons' defense was absolutely stifling. Duhon's strengths are defense (same as Hinrich's) and chemistry. He would not have helped against a long and athletic

As my username suggests, I'm a Duhon fan. But Duhon is, at best, the third best guard on the Bulls. And he wouldn't have addressed the problems that the Bulls faced last night in the second half. When Detroit wants to play defense, they have several very lanky athletic players that can stifle the competition. They went out and did what they wanted to do on the defensive end and took over the game.


Detroit is the better team right now. Chicago likes to play up-tempo, penetrate and kick the ball out for open jumpers and the Pistons, as much as I don't like them, are not allowing them to do that. They are collapsing on the ball and their length is making it tough for the Bulls.

I don't think this is a Skiles problem as much as it is a Bulls problem. The third quarter was just a disaster and one kind of got the feeling when Wallace hit the three pointer at the end of it that the game was gone. The Bulls are a few Dukies short of being a championship caliber team.

VaDukie
05-11-2007, 10:22 PM
I'm not sure what game you were watching, but Duhon would not have solved any problems for the Bulls last night. Moreover, Hinrich did a pretty decent job on Billups. Billups shot 7-17 from the field for 21 points. He had a solid, but not spectacular, game. Most of his points came off fadeaways or going around high screens from Rasheed Wallace. Duhon would have made little difference there.

Detroit won the game last night because they are a more versatile, deeper team. Tayshaun Prince was fantastic. Billups, Hamilton, and Wallace were solid But most importantly, the team lost because they couldn't score - not the other way around. No one was complaining when the Bulls had a 19-point lead. The game was lost in the 2nd half, in which the Pistons' defense was absolutely stifling. Duhon's strengths are defense (same as Hinrich's) and chemistry. He would not have helped against a long and athletic

As my username suggests, I'm a Duhon fan. But Duhon is, at best, the third best guard on the Bulls. And he wouldn't have addressed the problems that the Bulls faced last night in the second half. When Detroit wants to play defense, they have several very lanky athletic players that can stifle the competition. They went out and did what they wanted to do on the defensive end and took over the game.

I'm not suggesting Duhon is a better player than Hinrich - but sitting him the entire game when Hinrich was clearly getting tired was a bad move.

CDu
05-11-2007, 10:54 PM
I'm not suggesting Duhon is a better player than Hinrich - but sitting him the entire game when Hinrich was clearly getting tired was a bad move.

Well, I'm glad that wasn't the argument. However, I still disagree. For one, I'm not convinced in the least that Hinrich was tired. He's a well-conditioned athlete who has played 45+ minutes numerous times this year. For another, I'm not sure that Hinrich's defense on Billups was the problem, nor do I think any incremental improvement in that department would have helped. Billups had simply a decent shooting night - they were all deep jumpers. Those are the shots you want Billups to take, he just happened to make them. The inability to hit a shot in the third and fourth quarters were what did in the Bulls, as well as decent shooting by Billups the inability to guard Wallace and Prince in the second half.

And it appears that it was a disciplinary move regarding Duhon not playing. But if Skiles felt Hinrich was fatigued, he could have played Sefalosha more. But he felt that the best chance was to have Hinrich and Gordon on the floor.

hondoheel
05-13-2007, 09:18 AM
The Bulls are a few Dukies short of being a championship caliber team.


Like the Pistons? ;)

SilkyJ
05-14-2007, 01:07 PM
I'm not sure what game you were watching, but Duhon would not have solved any problems for the Bulls last night. Moreover, Hinrich did a pretty decent job on Billups. Billups shot 7-17 from the field for 21 points. He had a solid, but not spectacular, game. Most of his points came off fadeaways or going around high screens from Rasheed Wallace. Duhon would have made little difference there.

Detroit won the game last night because they are a more versatile, deeper team. Tayshaun Prince was fantastic. Billups, Hamilton, and Wallace were solid But most importantly, the team lost because they couldn't score - not the other way around. No one was complaining when the Bulls had a 19-point lead. The game was lost in the 2nd half, in which the Pistons' defense was absolutely stifling. Duhon's strengths are defense (same as Hinrich's) and chemistry.

OK, I was in agreement right up until the very end there. Hinrich is known as a jump shooter (with emphasis on 3pt shooting) and a good passer. Those are his strengths, along with solid ball handling. He is not known for his defensive prowess.

CDu
05-14-2007, 01:23 PM
OK, I was in agreement right up until the very end there. Hinrich is known as a jump shooter (with emphasis on 3pt shooting) and a good passer. Those are his strengths, along with solid ball handling. He is not known for his defensive prowess.

If you'd followed the Bulls at all, you'd know this is incorrect. Hinrich is considered the toughest defensive guard on the team. He regularly gets the assignment of the team's best perimeter player (whomever that is), and he regularly does a good job. Hinrich's defense on Wade was a big reason why the Miami series took 6 games in 2006 and why the Bulls swept in 2007 (except in game 1, where Hinrich had an awful game). He is absolutely considered a good defensive player.

He's not in the Gary Payton of the mid-90s category, but neither is Duhon. But are tough, smart, solid, harassing defenders who make it difficult for the opposition.

SilkyJ
05-14-2007, 03:24 PM
If you'd followed the Bulls at all, you'd know this is incorrect. Hinrich is considered the toughest defensive guard on the team. He regularly gets the assignment of the team's best perimeter player (whomever that is), and he regularly does a good job. Hinrich's defense on Wade was a big reason why the Miami series took 6 games in 2006 and why the Bulls swept in 2007 (except in game 1, where Hinrich had an awful game). He is absolutely considered a good defensive player.

He's not in the Gary Payton of the mid-90s category, but neither is Duhon. But are tough, smart, solid, harassing defenders who make it difficult for the opposition.

You said his STRENGTH was defense. I didn't say he was good at D or that he was bad at D. I said his STRENGTH was passing and jump shooting (and I emphasized 3 pt shooting), primarily. He is in the top 15 in the NBA in assists and 3pt%.

CDu
05-14-2007, 03:43 PM
You said his STRENGTH was defense. I didn't say he was good at D or that he was bad at D. I said his STRENGTH was passing and jump shooting (and I emphasized 3 pt shooting), primarily. He is in the top 15 in the NBA in assists and 3pt%.

I fully agree he's very strong in those areas. My point was that he's ALSO very strong defensively. He's known for being a good shooter, good passer, good ball handler, AND a good defender.

My point in the original post (which is perhaps where you got confused) was that Duhon's defense doesn't differentiate him from Hinrich. I wasn't saying Hinrich was only noted for defense.

SilkyJ
05-14-2007, 04:19 PM
I fully agree he's very strong in those areas. My point was that he's ALSO very strong defensively. He's known for being a good shooter, good passer, good ball handler, AND a good defender.

My point in the original post (which is perhaps where you got confused) was that Duhon's defense doesn't differentiate him from Hinrich. I wasn't saying Hinrich was only noted for defense.

I had a feeling that was what you were trying to say, but that's not what you said. Additionally, I would say that he is not as good a defensive player as he is an offensive player, and maintain that his STRENGTH's are what I said before. But I guess we just disagree there. And you are right, he's a solid/good (however you want to classify it) defender.

Nonetheless, to get back to the original point of the thread: I agree with your first subject line when you said "this is a ridiculous thread" because that was the first thing I thought too. Duhon is not the answer to the Bulls' problems in this series...and you made an another good point when you implied that Thabo might be better (you said something like Duhon is the 3rd best guard on the team, AT BEST). Thabo is very young and has come along nicely. With his height/length he can guard different players (and he is a solid defender) and he has a better shot than CDu.

VaDukie
05-14-2007, 11:42 PM
"It's hard to imagine anyone killing their coaching stock quite like Scott Skiles did in this Pistons-Bulls series. Where have Ty Thomas and Chris Duhon been? Why is Ben Wallace playing so much? Why is P.J. Brown playing at all? Completely inexplicable. The Chicago fans are justifiably going crazy right now. If I were a Bulls fan, I'd probably have to be sedated. I'm not kidding."

mgtr
05-15-2007, 02:45 PM
You are right -- at least the Orlando knew they didn't have a very good team for most of the season, but Chicago legitimately expected more in the playoffs. Particularly after the Miami series. It seems to taken SS into the fourth game to figure out how to play against the zone (which they did very well in game 4). I am not optimistic that Chicago will last much longer, however.

CDu
05-15-2007, 03:52 PM
"It's hard to imagine anyone killing their coaching stock quite like Scott Skiles did in this Pistons-Bulls series. Where have Ty Thomas and Chris Duhon been? Why is Ben Wallace playing so much? Why is P.J. Brown playing at all? Completely inexplicable. The Chicago fans are justifiably going crazy right now. If I were a Bulls fan, I'd probably have to be sedated. I'm not kidding."

Using Bill Simmons to support your argument is not exactly going to expert opinion. The guy is just a hack fan, like the rest of us. He just happens to write (in some people's opinions, at least) amusing articles weaving sports with pop culture. I take pretty much any analysis he says with a grain of salt.

Thomas doesn't play much because he's a rookie who frequently looks lost out there. For every brilliant play he'll make 5 boneheaded moves. Against a savvy team like the Pistons, that's a deadly combination. PJ Brown, meanwhile, know where he's supposed to be, and he hits the 15-foot jumper (which works well when Hinrich cuts to the lane and dishes out). And Duhon had played the previous two games to no benefit - 25 and 22 minutes in blowout losses at Detroit.

As a die-hard Bulls fan, I'm not going crazy. The Pistons are a better team than the Bulls, plain and simple. They are better at nearly every position (Deng is the only player who is superior to his counter). They're more experienced. They are more versatile, at both ends of the floor. They have more scoring options at their disposal. They play stifling defense, and their length and aggressiveness are major problems for the Bulls, who rely heavily on jumpshooting to succeed. I'm not in any way surprised that Detroit is up 3-1.

The Bulls won the regular season series for two reasons: (1) they didn't face the Pistons at full strength in any of the 3 wins; and (2) the Pistons don't really step up until the post-season. Skiles has done a masterful job in creating a winning team without ANY post presence offensively, and with undersized guards who aren't known for attacking the basket and getting to the line. He went with Duhon in games 1 and 2, and the results were not good. Either Duhon was being disciplined, or Skiles decided that if he was going to go down, he was going to go down with his best players on the floor.

mgtr
05-16-2007, 01:35 AM
Bulls now 2-3 vs Pistons. Thomas looked pretty good, Duhon contributed, Gordon woke up and scored a bunch, Hinrich very active.

CDu
05-16-2007, 08:38 AM
Bulls now 2-3 vs Pistons. Thomas looked pretty good, Duhon contributed, Gordon woke up and scored a bunch, Hinrich very active.

Yes, I'm VERY pleased with last night's performance, especially considering that it was in Detroit. If the Bulls get great games from Gordon and Deng, Hinrich stays out of foul trouble, and Thomas plays like "good impact Thomas" and not "negative impact Thomas," they can give the Pistons trouble and maybe even sneak out with the series. I think last night was the best game from the Bulls all season, considering the situation and the opponent.

Game 6 should be fun. The Bulls will be at home where they play really well, and the Pistons will be very anxious not to let the Bulls take this to a do-or-die Game 7.