Lost: What Kate Does

[DukeUsul]

What?!?!?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

What?!?!?
I thought tonight's episode basically sucked.

[mr. synellinden]

I thought tonight's episode basically sucked.

I'd leave out the word 'basically'. That was 1/16th of the final season we've been waiting for for eight months?

[JasonEvans]

As requested, a new thread has been created for this week's episode.

A couple comments--

It is becoming increasingly clear to me that we are neither rooting for the Others at the Temple nor for Flocke/smoke monster. They may be on opposite sides of a battle, but neither of them seem to have the best interests of our heroes (the Lostaways) at heart. The Flocke monster could get past the ashe into that Temple camp and kill everyone and I would not shed a tear.

Claire may have been "infected" but the look on her face was not one of someone who has no feelings for our heroes. She's still a "good guy." I am tempted to say that the show could not turn Sayid into a bad guy either but I would have said the same thing about Locke a half dozen episodes ago. The producers will do anything to mess with us ;)

I hated the alternate timeline in this episode. Kate does nothing that matters. I have not been given any reason to care about that timeline aside from wondering what happened to Jack's father's body, why Hurley is lucky, and maybe a couple other minor things. Spending a whole episode only following Kate and Claire... yawn!! And meeting the alt-Ethan Goodspeed was pretty lame too. I wonder if the show is going to try to explain how all these people's lives are connected together or not. There is some amusing symetry to Ethan delivering the baby in both timelines.

--Jason "I liked that Sawyer's wedding ring was small, it would have been easy to make it bigger but small ring rang true" Evans

[JG Nothing]

What?!?!?

I suspect that anyone interested in LOST's mythology is going to be disappointed with this season and the ending of the show. It's just a hunch.

[duke23]

As requested, a new thread has been created for this week's episode.

A couple comments--

It is becoming increasingly clear to me that we are neither rooting for the Others at the Temple nor for Flocke/smoke monster. They may be on opposite sides of a battle, but neither of them seem to have the best interests of our heroes (the Lostaways) at heart. The Flocke monster could get past the ashe into that Temple camp and kill everyone and I would not shed a tear.

Claire may have been "infected" but the look on her face was not one of someone who has no feelings for our heroes. She's still a "good guy." I am tempted to say that the show could not turn Sayid into a bad guy either but I would have said the same thing about Locke a half dozen episodes ago. The producers will do anything to mess with us ;)

I hated the alternate timeline in this episode. Kate does nothing that matters. I have not been given any reason to care about that timeline aside from wondering what happened to Jack's father's body, why Hurley is lucky, and maybe a couple other minor things. Spending a whole episode only following Kate and Claire... yawn!! And meeting the alt-Ethan Goodspeed was pretty lame too. I wonder if the show is going to try to explain how all these people's lives are connected together or not. There is some amusing symetry to Ethan delivering the baby in both timelines.

--Jason "I liked that Sawyer's wedding ring was small, it would have been easy to make it bigger but small ring rang true" Evans

I think we might be hating the alternate timeline for many episodes to come - like you say, we don't have any motivation to care about anything that goes on. I have to assume that those things will "matter" at some point (or else why have them), but hopefully we will find out why sooner rather than later.

One interesting thing about this episode - Claire seems to have become Rousseau. Setting traps, shooting rifles, etc. If Claire is "infected", does this mean Rousseau was as well? Meanwhile, it was Rousseau herself who said her husband became "infected" after being dragged into the temple by Smokey. I can't decide if I think I'm reading too much into this or if I think it's meaningful in some way.

One last thought - even if the pill was poison, was Dogan (sp?) telling Jack the truth that Sayid must want to take the pill or else it "won't work"? Why not just give Sayid the pill themselves? Dogan trying to convince Jack to "kill" Sayid seems similar to Flocke killing Jacob by having Ben do it. In both cases, someone else was doing the killing, and the concept of free will was raised.

[alteran]

As requested, a new thread has been created for this week's episode.

A couple comments--

It is becoming increasingly clear to me that we are neither rooting for the Others at the Temple nor for Flocke/smoke monster. They may be on opposite sides of a battle, but neither of them seem to have the best interests of our heroes (the Lostaways) at heart. The Flocke monster could get past the ashe into that Temple camp and kill everyone and I would not shed a tear.

Claire may have been "infected" but the look on her face was not one of someone who has no feelings for our heroes. She's still a "good guy." I am tempted to say that the show could not turn Sayid into a bad guy either but I would have said the same thing about Locke a half dozen episodes ago. The producers will do anything to mess with us ;)

I hated the alternate timeline in this episode. Kate does nothing that matters. I have not been given any reason to care about that timeline aside from wondering what happened to Jack's father's body, why Hurley is lucky, and maybe a couple other minor things. Spending a whole episode only following Kate and Claire... yawn!! And meeting the alt-Ethan Goodspeed was pretty lame too. I wonder if the show is going to try to explain how all these people's lives are connected together or not. There is some amusing symetry to Ethan delivering the baby in both timelines.

--Jason "I liked that Sawyer's wedding ring was small, it would have been easy to make it bigger but small ring rang true" Evans

I didn't do handsprings about this episode, but I think the Claire/Kate story was worthwhile in establishing that the LAX timeline is not all about "everyone's life unravels if the plane doesn't crash." Additionally, I think it's becoming clear that regardless of timeline, these people's lives are connected.

Man, I HATED Sawyer for 4 seasons. I know he was the charming-rogue-I-just-HAD-to-love, but he always seemed a self-centered jackass to me. (Granted, I may miss the hormonal appeal.) But now, he's ten times the man anyone else is. Except maybe Sayid, who's surprisingly passive for a spine-snapping torturer.

I am enjoying Jack's mildly redemptive storyline. Just 150 more episodes of redemption like this, and I'll quit hating him.

Obvioisly, there's strong symmetry between Claire and Rousseau. (FWIW, my theory prior to the end of this episode was that she was dead.) Both Claire and Rousseau bore children on the island (a rarity in itself) who were subsequently stolen, both carved a solitary path-- and both seeded that path with a variety of fatal animal traps. What's up with that?

My theory now is that the Claire we saw in the cabin was smokey-Claire, not the Claire we saw at the end of this episode.

Also, good call by duke23 for noting the whole "he must want to take the pill" thing. I don't get that at all but it must mean something.

I loved the Miles moment where he sarcastically declared Hurley their leader.

I agree with Jason-- I WANT to like the Temple-ies and I assume they are actually the good guys, but... what a bunch of condescending asses.

[CLT Devil]

Not that I've ever tried, but didn't it seem like Kate was able to Karate kick that bathroom door open a little too easy? And then take out an armed FBI agent...

To me the only bright spot was they let Mac out of Paddy's Pub and gave him a gun. Nice death too.

Otherwise my 'Show that I love to hate' has been more hate.

I have a feeling that they are going to leave us hanging in the end, ie no resolution to many, if any conflicts. I dunno, as of late I have become a more casual TV fan, which does not work well with this show.

[A-Tex Devil]

Not much to say about this episode. Some thoughts:

1. Maybe Rousseau was infected and her frenchmen weren't?
2. I thought maybe "What Kate Does" was going to be kill Claire in the opposite timeline (until I saw Claire was pregnant). But the title is misleading. Kate didn't do anything very poignant in this episode except act like a human being.
3. Nice to see Mac from Always Sunny in Philadelphia as Aldo even if the writers wrote him so fricking broadly that Laurence Olivier couldn't have made those lines come off. I checked IMDB and he actually was Aldo in "Not in Portland" when Kate broke out.

And how awesome was it that they told Jack they would tell him everything once they were done with Sayid. Then they didn't. :rolleyes:

[JG Nothing]

And how awesome was it that they told Jack they would tell him everything once they were done with Sayid. Then they didn't. :rolleyes:

What's even awesomer is that Flocke promises to tell Sawyer everything in next week's episode. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

To me the only bright spot was they let Mac out of Paddy's Pub and gave him a gun. Nice death too.

That was a very bright spot, I agree. He was sorta in Mac character too!

I guess I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed the episode.

It revealed that Claire was alive, but in this infected state like Sayid. Is this the same infection that the French woman saw in her fellow scientists? Does one need to be dead to become infected.

Also interestign was that as someone else mentioned with or without going to the island, the Losties were destined to have their lives intertwined. I liked the touch of Ethan/Goodspeed being the OB. He really needs to work on his bedside manner, creepy!

Best line: "I am not a zombie"

[weezie]

To me the only bright spot was they let Mac out of Paddy's Pub and gave him a gun. Nice death too.


Oh, that was good! He even slipped a little Mac in his scenes, too.
Very funny!
Whoops, posted before I read the above. I kept thinking Ethan/OB was going to ask Claire to pay for her labor slowing drip before he gave the ok to start it. Kind of a commentary on insurance these days. Looks the the Lost writers are getting a little slap happy.

[A-Tex Devil]

I haven't wrapped my head around it yet, but hope to later.

Sawyer's box of stuff with Juliet's ring was in Island 2007. So what does that mean for the reverse theories from last thread that the bomb going off = losties on the island and bomb not going off = 2004 LAX and island underwater?

I need to think about this one. The creators have constantly reiterated that the alternative timeline is much more than a "what-if" which tends to make me disbelieve the "reverse" theory, but does Sawyer's box still being there, help/hurt/do nothing with respect to that theory?

[alteran]

I haven't wrapped my head around it yet, but hope to later.

If you do, send me the Cliff Notes, I'm still confused by it as well.


Sawyer's box of stuff with Juliet's ring was in Island 2007. So what does that mean for the reverse theories from last thread that the bomb going off = losties on the island and bomb not going off = 2004 LAX and island underwater?

I need to think about this one. The creators have constantly reiterated that the alternative timeline is much more than a "what-if" which tends to make me disbelieve the "reverse" theory, but does Sawyer's box still being there, help/hurt/do nothing with respect to that theory?

Sawyer's box tells us nothing. It was placed there before the bomb went off (and the timelines diverged), so should exist at that location in both timelines until displaced.

As far as I can tell, the Jack Blows Bomb = Sunken Island versus Jack Does NOT Blow Bomb = Sunken Island yields no testable hypothesis with the current information. Knowing the proximal cause of the sinking probably will tell us, but it might not.

Let me state that this theory still has my brain pretzelized, so I could be missing something.

I'm on the fence about the theory, firmly on the fence. Bottom line, it fits the profile of screwing with us that the show does so well. On the other hand, I agree with you that the producers have said enough to indicate that the timelines aren't reversed.

But we just don't-- and can't-- know.

[Jarhead]

And how awesome was it that they told Jack they would tell him everything once they were done with Sayid. Then they didn't. :rolleyes:
Jack didn't get Sayid to take the pill, so I guess they aren't done with Sayid yet.
Question -- was that Claire shooting those temple folks?

[A-Tex Devil]

Another doppelganger last night (pulled from Doc Henson's write up on EW) -- the Killer Whale in Claire's bag is the same one Kate gave Aaron in "Something Nice Back Home."

[snowdenscold]

Question -- was that Claire shooting those temple folks?

Yup.

See alteran's post above about her similarities to Rosseau.

[Duvall]

Yup.

See alteran's post above about her similarities to Rosseau.

Well, it was a character played by Emilie de Ravin. Whether it was Claire Littleton has yet to be seen.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Well, it was a character played by Emilie de Ravin. Whether it was Claire Littleton has yet to be seen.

You mean a NotClaire? I think we can assume that she died before and has been reborn like Sayid. I mean, she was hanging out with Christian previously.

BTW, I read in another chat that there were 108 questions asked in last night's episode, which is a bit kooky. Also 108 stitches on a baseball. Not sure why the numbers are coming back up, but they are.

[JasonEvans]

And how awesome was it that they told Jack they would tell him everything once they were done with Sayid. Then they didn't. :rolleyes:

On behalf of everyone in the audience, I want to see a really pissed off Jack next week demanding answers.

C'mon writers, we are in the final season. The time for freaking ANSWERS is NOW!!! The promos even say that. So, give us some answers already!!!

--Jason "they are starting to really piss me off" Evans

[Jarhead]

You mean a NotClaire? I think we can assume that she died before and has been reborn like Sayid. I mean, she was hanging out with Christian previously.

BTW, I read in another chat that there were 108 questions asked in last night's episode, which is a bit kooky. Also 108 stitches on a baseball. Not sure why the numbers are coming back up, but they are. I guess that explains the baseball that the head man in the temple was handling. The guys in charge of Lost just don't do closeups on meaningless props.

I was saving post #1600 hundred for something more significant. Oh, well.
Do posts at the start of a page often get ignored?

[JG Nothing]

BTW, I read in another chat that there were 108 questions asked in last night's episode, which is a bit kooky. Also 108 stitches on a baseball. Not sure why the numbers are coming back up, but they are.

Which is the kooky part? The idea that the writers would include 108 questions in the script or the fact that a viewer counted the number of questions? ;)

[Clipsfan]

Which is the kooky part? The idea that the writers would include 108 questions in the script or the fact that a viewer counted the number of questions? ;)

I feel like the writers are overly proud of the little things like that which they include and probably let others know to look for them.

[johnb]

108 questions? I have more...

Where does Sawyer get a ring? Dig for diamonds on the island? Steal it? Barter? Poker?

If involved in a carjacking, do you a) call the cops or b) wait for a bus to Brentwood?

If your husband leaves you, do you really not call up the woman who is flying from Australia to hand over her baby? Really?

If Arzt is in front of your car and you could claim that an armed crazy lady forced you to press on the accelerator, wouldn't you run him over just because you could get away with it?

Left alone on the island, setting traps, being constantly attacked, apparently infected with something that frightens everyone, and living off the land... how does Claire stay so purty?

If the Lostaways can figure out that the Japanese guy can speak English within 5", is it possible that his own people haven't figured it out in, like, forever? Of course, their forces include armed guards who blithely let Jack through without even warning their leader that an enraged outsider is entering and a guy who has twice been beat by Kate. I don't think Smoky needs to worry about them.

And what exactly was the point of showing her remove the handcuffs? In TV time, that seemed long...

More Lostworthy questions are more central: why do the sideways characters seem to almost recognize each other? Why are they sort of different, at least initially, before shifting to what appears to be bland normality? And why is Miles the only person affiliated with the island who has a sense of humor? Hurley is sort-of funny, but Miles gets all the actual wit (which amounts to a sharp remark every 2-3 episodes).

[HateCarolina]

I suspect that anyone interested in LOST's mythology is going to be disappointed with this season and the ending of the show. It's just a hunch.

Unfortunately you're probably right. It may just be me, but it seems like whenever I read a good book (anything by Robert Ludlum, Stephen King, John Grisham, etc.) that I am always disappointed with the ending. I have a sickening feeling that after reading/watching the "novel" that is Lost (and about as long as War & Peace x 3) I will be terribly disappointed.

Go Devils!!!

[JG Nothing]

I feel like the writers are overly proud of the little things like that which they include and probably let others know to look for them.

I wouldn't be surprised. The attempt by rabid viewers to find meaning in almost every aspect of the show is probably a little intoxicating for the writers.

[JG Nothing]

Unfortunately you're probably right. It may just be me, but it seems like whenever I read a good book (anything by Robert Ludlum, Stephen King, John Grisham, etc.) that I am always disappointed with the ending. I have a sickening feeling that after reading/watching the "novel" that is Lost (and about as long as War & Peace x 3) I will be terribly disappointed.

Go Devils!!!

If the show does not provide a satisfying account of the mythology, then I will be disappointed in the creators. The basic mythology could have and should have been worked out in the beginning. Any subsequent developments in the mythology or characters during the course of writing the show could have been made to fit within these original parameters. I was really hoping we would get a quai-scientific account of the island involving dark matter, wormholes, etc. However, I doubt that will be the case.

[JasonEvans]

Where does Sawyer get a ring? Dig for diamonds on the island? Steal it? Barter? Poker?
I don't find it hard to believe that he asked one of the folks who brought supplies from the mainland to bring him one. I would be interested in knowing how Dharma paid him and if he had to give them a SS number and pay taxes ;)


If involved in a carjacking, do you a) call the cops or b) wait for a bus to Brentwood? Yup, I cringed when Kate drove back to pick up Claire. That was stupid.


If your husband leaves you, do you really not call up the woman who is flying from Australia to hand over her baby? Really? Agreed, really stupid. Though, maybe her husband just left her in the past 24 hours and she did not have time to call Claire before Claire got on the plane. Still, that was pretty lame and felt like a waste of time.


If Arzt is in front of your car and you could claim that an armed crazy lady forced you to press on the accelerator, wouldn't you run him over just because you could get away with it? Ha!! I think we need to see Artz die in the alt-reality. Should be fun!


Left alone on the island, setting traps, being constantly attacked, apparently infected with something that frightens everyone, and living off the land... how does Claire stay so purty? I wanna know how all the men have 3-5 days of razor stubble no matter how long it has been since they last shaved.


If the Lostaways can figure out that the Japanese guy can speak English within 5", is it possible that his own people haven't figured it out in, like, forever? I think his people know he can speak English, he just does not like to speak it.


Of course, their forces include armed guards who blithely let Jack through without even warning their leader that an enraged outsider is entering and a guy who has twice been beat by Kate. I don't think Smoky needs to worry about them. Well, they knew Jack was unarmed so the odds of him hurting their leader were pretty small. I agree that Smokey is going to pwn them when the time comes.


And what exactly was the point of showing her remove the handcuffs? In TV time, that seemed long... I was sure that car mechanic guy would be someone worth knowing. Ahh well.


More Lostworthy questions are more central: why do the sideways characters seem to almost recognize each other? Why are they sort of different, at least initially, before shifting to what appears to be bland normality? These are significant questions that I think the show will address. Things feel different in the alt timeline for a reason, I think.


And why is Miles the only person affiliated with the island who has a sense of humor? Hurley is sort-of funny, but Miles gets all the actual wit (which amounts to a sharp remark every 2-3 episodes). Love MILES!! I am eager to see him in the alt reality. In fact, he may be the one who recognizes that the alt world is somehow "wrong."

-Jason

[johnb]

Jason is excellent with answers.

The handcuff guy is a bit of a mystery; after all these years, why introduce an interesting new character who we don't meet again? Maybe he'll return and have something to do with breaking off their more metaphysical shackles.

And I wonder if Miles should be able to tell if someone is sorta dead...