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NYC Duke Fan
02-05-2010, 03:52 PM
I was on the Duke Update Website when I came across this article by Brett Friedlander for Star On Line News, in the ACC Insider Column( I have no idea what the Star On line News is about nor have I ever heard of Brett Friedlander).

It was entitled ," Is Andre Dawkins In The Doghouse?". It went on to say that maybe Dawkins ," was not physically mature enough to handle the physical nature of ACC basketball, and that there was an implication that he was not practicing hard enough right now. This was a response by Coach K to why Dawkins was a DNP last night when he said ," how we practice is how we play ".

If somehow Duke is lucky enough to recruit Rivers there will be little playing time next year for Dawkins and he could, and I emphasize , " could", be a transfer candidate.

I know that there is another Andre Dawkins thread on this board, but I could not find it.

roywhite
02-05-2010, 03:57 PM
I was on the Duke Update Website when I came across this article by Brett Friedlander for Star On Line News, in the ACC Insider Column( I have no idea what the Star On line News is about nor have I ever heard of Brett Friedlander).

It was entitled ," Is Andre Dawkins In The Doghouse?". It went on to say that maybe Dawkins ," was not physically mature enough to handle the physical nature of ACC basketball, and that there was an implication that he was not practicing hard enough right now. This was a response by Coach K to why Dawkins was a DNP last night when he said ," how we practice is how we play ".

If somehow Duke is lucky enough to recruit Rivers there will be little playing time next year for Dawkins and he could, and I emphasize , " could", be a transfer candidate.
I know that there is another Andre Dawkins thread on this board, but I could not find it.

Did you know that Austin Rivers is in the high school class of 2011 and would not start college until the 2011-12 season?

Or just had to throw "transfer" into the message?

http://acc.blogs.starnewsonline.com/12038/is-andre-dawkins-in-the-doghouse/

Here's the link to the Friedlander article

Andre's current status was pretty well discussed in a previous thread, which was closed.

houstondukie
02-05-2010, 04:03 PM
I was on the Duke Update Website when I came across this article by Brett Friedlander for Star On Line News, in the ACC Insider Column( I have no idea what the Star On line News is about nor have I ever heard of Brett Friedlander).

It was entitled ," Is Andre Dawkins In The Doghouse?". It went on to say that maybe Dawkins ," was not physically mature enough to handle the physical nature of ACC basketball, and that there was an implication that he was not practicing hard enough right now. This was a response by Coach K to why Dawkins was a DNP last night when he said ," how we practice is how we play ".

If somehow Duke is lucky enough to recruit Rivers there will be little playing time next year for Dawkins and he could, and I emphasize , " could", be a transfer candidate.

I know that there is another Andre Dawkins thread on this board, but I could not find it.

This is so stupid. First, Rivers is a 2011 recruit. Second, Andre Dawkins is Duke's biggest cheerleader/recruiter. The kid absolutely loves Duke.

CDu
02-05-2010, 04:07 PM
This is so stupid. First, Rivers is a 2011 recruit. Second, Andre Dawkins is Duke's biggest cheerleader/recruiter. The kid absolutely loves Duke.

In fairness, he did look a lot less enthusiastic last night. I'm sure that's a temporary thing, though. As is (I hope) the doghouse situation. But yes - the Rivers comment is wrong. However, it could be corrected by saying Ross/Ziegler/Felix (or a combination of players from that trio). But I agree - no point in speculating about a transfer. Especially for a kid who came here early because of his excitement about Duke, knowing that it could be rough as a freshman.

BlueintheFace
02-05-2010, 04:10 PM
The kid has been dealing with an ankle injury for a little while now. He was doing better, but some of you may remember him tweaking it @ Georgetown and limping back to the bench. Well, he was limited in practice this last week and was limited in warmups before the Georgia Tech game. Dawkins saw zero minutes and K played Jordan Davidson in the first half of that game if you need proof of his injury.

Additionally, he has obviously been struggling in practices. My guess is that one issue is feeding in to the other.

AnotherNYCDukeFan
02-05-2010, 04:13 PM
I wanted to add this to the other thread before it got closed down, but Andre has gotten two DNPs, at Clemson and last night. Both games were against teams with a ferocious full court press. Perhaps Andre has not practiced well against the press and therefore was held out because it. I know it is as much of a guess as any other theory, but it was a trend I noticed. Whether it's correct or not, tomorrow's game will provide some answers.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-05-2010, 04:15 PM
Lots of kids get in the doghouse and I don't think that Dre is the type of player or kid that would jump ship just because things aren't going his way. Immature people do that and that's not him. Andre has to view this situation as an opportunty and I think he will get it eventually. I seriously wish I could talk to him man to man because I have been there before and it sucks, but like I said, this is an opportunity for him to show himself, his coaches, teammates, and even scouts just how mentally tough he can be and that will go a long way. He has a good head on his shoulders and he'll work his way through it. I just hope that Coach K and the staff are doing their best to keep him positive.

proelitedota
02-05-2010, 04:23 PM
It's not like we're going to have an excess of 5 star guards next year than Andre Dawkins would be hard pressed to find PT at his talent level. Even if he doesn't improve much next year, we can still count on his 3 pt shooting in some games, and as a backup guard to Nolan, Kyrie, and Seth.

roywhite
02-05-2010, 04:29 PM
It's not like we're going to have an excess of 5 star guards next year than Andre Dawkins would be hard pressed to find PT at his talent level. Even if he doesn't improve much next year, we can still count on his 3 pt shooting in some games, and as a backup guard to Nolan, Kyrie, and Seth.

Andre can absolutely contribute as a shooting specialist. Beyond that, he needs to develop his game including ballhandling, defense, and physical strength. I fully expect that he'll do that, and be an important part of the Duke team (some this year and more next year and beyond).

jimsumner
02-05-2010, 04:31 PM
Sometimes writers just have to fill column inches. Even Brett.

BD80
02-05-2010, 04:43 PM
I was on the Duke Update Website when I came across this article by Brett Friedlander for Star On Line News, in the ACC Insider Column( I have no idea what the Star On line News is about nor have I ever heard of Brett Friedlander).

It was entitled ," Is Andre Dawkins In The Doghouse?". It went on to say that maybe Dawkins ," was not physically mature enough to handle the physical nature of ACC basketball, and that there was an implication that he was not practicing hard enough right now. This was a response by Coach K to why Dawkins was a DNP last night when he said ," how we practice is how we play ".

If somehow Duke is lucky enough to recruit Rivers there will be little playing time next year for Dawkins and he could, and I emphasize , " could", be a transfer candidate.

I know that there is another Andre Dawkins thread on this board, but I could not find it.

There is nothing in the article that suggests or supports speculation that Andre is even contemplating "transfer."

Why raise that issue?

Sounds to me like Andre wants to take it easy on his ankle during practice and be allowed to let it out come game time. Coach K disagrees. If you can't go all out for practice, you don't play.

oldnavy
02-05-2010, 05:02 PM
Isn't this sort of normal for freshmen? I mean most "hit the wall" at some point and Andre has had more to deal with than most freshmen. He enrolled early, then the tragedy with his sister. If he is in a funk, then I think he has good reason to be, but at the beginning of the year there was no one on this team having more fun than he was. I am confident that he will bounce back and that K will do the right thing by him.

Devilsfan
02-05-2010, 08:52 PM
This is about the time last year when Elliott started seeing much more PT. Nothing to do with this thread except that this year Elliott has become a much better player. Playing Andre more should allow his growth especially for next year. K did it last year, maybe he will choose to do it again.

Kedsy
02-05-2010, 09:19 PM
This is about the time last year when Elliott started seeing much more PT.

Actually, that's not true. Elliot played 11 minutes against Clemson on February 4, 2009, and then only 3 minutes against Miami on February 7. It was not until February 19 (two weeks later) that he started getting a lot of minutes.

Two weeks is plenty of time for Andre to play himself out of the doghouse (if indeed he's in it and not simply injured). Though it's not like there's a deadline or anything. One thing is with this year's cast it's hard to imagine Andre breaking into the starting lineup no matter how well he plays in practice.

Newton_14
02-05-2010, 10:15 PM
I think everyone is making too much of the situation with Andre while also not factoring in the full circumstances. We all know most of this but I will restate it anyway.

He came in a year early for one. And with the decision to do that not coming until late, he did not get to Durham until August. Unlike Mason and Ryan, he did not get the benefit of summer school and summer basketball training. In that critical summer time he would have learned at least the basics of the Duke defensive schemes. So he started out behind. He was able to overcome that to a certain degree and play well in the early season.

But then came the tragic death, which would be a huge blow to anybody, let alone an 18 yr old kid already in the middle of a major transition in his life. That also caused him to go off schedule with his exams and put him further behind basketball wise. Then to top it off he injures his ankle.

Add all that up and you have the recipe for disaster. I trust that our entire coaching staff is smart enough to handle a situation like Andre's and they are giving him the love and care he needs regarding the loss of his sister, and the adjustments he is going through getting acclimated to college, while also being tough on him when that is needed as well.

Andre is a very talented player who I believe will bounce back and overcome all of this. I feel he contributes again this year and gives the team a lift.

And FWIW, I do not count his current situation as being in the "doghouse". You get in the doghouse by either having a bad attitude or bad grades and that does not appear to be the situation at all. He is just not playing well in games and apparently not practicing well at the moment. That has led to reduced minutes.

Someone else also made a good point in that the 2 DNP's he had came against tough, physical, pressing teams. That, combined with the injury and all the other stuff likely factored in to the decision to not play him. And part of it is absolutely to challenge him to snap out of it and get it going. I don't want to minimize that part of it either. I am just saying you have to factor all of the circumstances in rather looking to one or two things.

Maybe I am looking at it wrong, but I just feel he is too good of a player to not bounce back.

CDu
02-05-2010, 10:27 PM
Actually, that's not true. Elliot played 11 minutes against Clemson on February 4, 2009, and then only 3 minutes against Miami on February 7. It was not until February 19 (two weeks later) that he started getting a lot of minutes.

Two weeks is plenty of time for Andre to play himself out of the doghouse (if indeed he's in it and not simply injured). Though it's not like there's a deadline or anything. One thing is with this year's cast it's hard to imagine Andre breaking into the starting lineup no matter how well he plays in practice.

Right. Last year, we had an injury to Smith and Paulus really having a tough year. This year, we have two stars at guard. The most I really see Dawkins playing even if he "gets it" will be around 20 mpg or so this year.

Newton_14
02-05-2010, 10:41 PM
Right. Last year, we had an injury to Smith and Paulus really having a tough year. This year, we have two stars at guard. The most I really see Dawkins playing even if he "gets it" will be around 20 mpg or so this year.

Agree. And really, that is all we need from him this year. If he can get back to 18-20 minutes and 8 to 10 ppg, it will be a huge boost to this team. I don't think it is a stretch for him to get there either.

gep
02-05-2010, 10:44 PM
I think everyone is making too much of the situation with Andre while also not factoring in the full circumstances. We all know most of this but I will restate it anyway.

He came in a year early for one. And with the decision to do that not coming until late, he did not get to Durham until August. Unlike Mason and Ryan, he did not get the benefit of summer school and summer basketball training. In that critical summer time he would have learned at least the basics of the Duke defensive schemes. So he started out behind. He was able to overcome that to a certain degree and play well in the early season.

But then came the tragic death, which would be a huge blow to anybody, let alone an 18 yr old kid already in the middle of a major transition in his life. That also caused him to go off schedule with his exams and put him further behind basketball wise. Then to top it off he injures his ankle.

Add all that up and you have the recipe for disaster. I trust that our entire coaching staff is smart enough to handle a situation like Andre's and they are giving him the love and care he needs regarding the loss of his sister, and the adjustments he is going through getting acclimated to college, while also being tough on him when that is needed as well.

Andre is a very talented player who I believe will bounce back and overcome all of this. I feel he contributes again this year and gives the team a lift.

And FWIW, I do not count his current situation as being in the "doghouse". You get in the doghouse by either having a bad attitude or bad grades and that does not appear to be the situation at all. He is just not playing well in games and apparently not practicing well at the moment. That has led to reduced minutes.

Someone else also made a good point in that the 2 DNP's he had came against tough, physical, pressing teams. That, combined with the injury and all the other stuff likely factored in to the decision to not play him. And part of it is absolutely to challenge him to snap out of it and get it going. I don't want to minimize that part of it either. I am just saying you have to factor all of the circumstances in rather looking to one or two things.

Maybe I am looking at it wrong, but I just feel he is too good of a player to not bounce back.

You've put everything in words very nicely what I had in my thoughts. I especially agree that the coaching staff and the entire basketball staff is giving Andre the caring that he most probably needs at this time. After all, isn't that why the "Duke family" is forever... :rolleyes:

Verga3
02-05-2010, 11:01 PM
I think everyone is making too much of the situation with Andre while also not factoring in the full circumstances. We all know most of this but I will restate it anyway.

He came in a year early for one. And with the decision to do that not coming until late, he did not get to Durham until August. Unlike Mason and Ryan, he did not get the benefit of summer school and summer basketball training. In that critical summer time he would have learned at least the basics of the Duke defensive schemes. So he started out behind. He was able to overcome that to a certain degree and play well in the early season.

But then came the tragic death, which would be a huge blow to anybody, let alone an 18 yr old kid already in the middle of a major transition in his life. That also caused him to go off schedule with his exams and put him further behind basketball wise. Then to top it off he injures his ankle.

Add all that up and you have the recipe for disaster. I trust that our entire coaching staff is smart enough to handle a situation like Andre's and they are giving him the love and care he needs regarding the loss of his sister, and the adjustments he is going through getting acclimated to college, while also being tough on him when that is needed as well.

Andre is a very talented player who I believe will bounce back and overcome all of this. I feel he contributes again this year and gives the team a lift.

And FWIW, I do not count his current situation as being in the "doghouse". You get in the doghouse by either having a bad attitude or bad grades and that does not appear to be the situation at all. He is just not playing well in games and apparently not practicing well at the moment. That has led to reduced minutes.

Someone else also made a good point in that the 2 DNP's he had came against tough, physical, pressing teams. That, combined with the injury and all the other stuff likely factored in to the decision to not play him. And part of it is absolutely to challenge him to snap out of it and get it going. I don't want to minimize that part of it either. I am just saying you have to factor all of the circumstances in rather looking to one or two things.

Maybe I am looking at it wrong, but I just feel he is too good of a player to not bounce back.

Couldn't agree more. Great post. Let's all keep our powder dry with regards to Andre and let Coach K do what's best for Andre and Duke. We are not helping Andre by continuing to speculate on things we don't fully understand.

Kedsy
02-05-2010, 11:44 PM
Someone else also made a good point in that the 2 DNP's he had came against tough, physical, pressing teams. That, combined with the injury and all the other stuff likely factored in to the decision to not play him. And part of it is absolutely to challenge him to snap out of it and get it going. I don't want to minimize that part of it either. I am just saying you have to factor all of the circumstances in rather looking to one or two things.

Maybe I am looking at it wrong, but I just feel he is too good of a player to not bounce back.

I agree he's going to bounce back, and I think it might happen in the BC game (assuming he is healthy enough to play). In fact, I agree with pretty much everything you said, except I don't think Georgia Tech's pressing style is why he sat last night.

I've heard he didn't shoot around before the game, and the conclusion I draw from that is he was told he would not play. Either because he was injured or some other reason that only he and K know, I'm not going to speculate, but he knew he wasn't going to play. The fact that Jordan Davidson was put into the game, not once but a couple of times, leads me to believe it wasn't just an injury. K was sending a message. But since I know K is a master motivator, and since that sort of message would probably work best if it was a one game thing, I'm guessing Andre will be back on the court tomorrow.

And next year, he's going to get a lot of minutes and probably be a star. Hopefully this all blows over in the very near future.

Newton_14
02-05-2010, 11:57 PM
I agree he's going to bounce back, and I think it might happen in the BC game (assuming he is healthy enough to play). In fact, I agree with pretty much everything you said, except I don't think Georgia Tech's pressing style is why he sat last night.

I've heard he didn't shoot around before the game, and the conclusion I draw from that is he was told he would not play. Either because he was injured or some other reason that only he and K know, I'm not going to speculate, but he knew he wasn't going to play. The fact that Jordan Davidson was put into the game, not once but a couple of times, leads me to believe it wasn't just an injury. K was sending a message. But since I know K is a master motivator, and since that sort of message would probably work best if it was a one game thing, I'm guessing Andre will be back on the court tomorrow.

And next year, he's going to get a lot of minutes and probably be a star. Hopefully this all blows over in the very near future.

You may be right about last night. In watching him and judging his body language in the Clemson game, I felt like he knew he was not going to play that night. Could have been the same thing last night but for a different reason. If not tomorrow I hope to see him back out there soon.

NYC Duke Fan
02-06-2010, 01:48 AM
Sorry, I did not realize that Rivers was only a junior this year....forget the transfer idea.

He was on TV last night playing against Brandon Knight's Pine Crest team. Both looked terrific.

ACCBBallFan
02-06-2010, 11:22 AM
I too attribute some of this to compassion for the tragic loss of a family member.

Actually by coming early, Andre Dawkins and Seth Curry too have a leg up on Kyrie Irving and Tyler Thornton in learning the Duke system on both ends of the floor.

With Scheyer gone for sure next year and possibly Kyle, there could be ample PT for all four plus Nolan, and possibly Ryan Kelly at the 1-2-3 spots.

With Lance and Zoubs gone then too and only Josh Hairston (who effectively replaces Olek) coming on board, Kelly may play more PF as Plumlees share the post slot.

I would suspect Tyler and Josh are brought along slowly as most frosh are, but Kyrie gets the nod immediately. Having his two buds on board will also help Andre, and he can do a lot to hasten their orientation.

ccrazies_708
02-06-2010, 12:53 PM
This is so stupid. First, Rivers is a 2011 recruit. Second, Andre Dawkins is Duke's biggest cheerleader/recruiter. The kid absolutely loves Duke.

To be fair, so did Taylor King. However, I think he absolutely stays at Duke and finds his groove for the next 3+ years